In a Deacons Meeting on April 22,2001 ,the below questions were asked.

On May 2, 2001 The Elders answered the the below questions with the
answer in parenthesis.

Deacon Names have been replaced with numbers, and other names have
been replaced with [.........], where it was thought perhaps these
folks might not want to see their names in print.

Spelling errors were left intact, as we received them.





RESPONSES TO DEACONS’ QUESTIONS OF APRIL 22, 2001 (In parenthesis)

:1

WITH THIS DIGRESSION THAT WOMEN TALK IN THE CHURCH, TEACH, WHAT'S
THE NEXT THING?

(WE ARE CURRENTLY STUDYING THIS MATTER.)

WHAT DO THESE WOMEN ADD TO THE WORSHIP?

WHAT DO WOMEN ADD TO THE WORSHIP?


(WE ARE CURRENTLY STUDYING THIS MATTER.)

WHEN YOU ADVERTISE [..........] AS WORSHIP LEADER, ARE YOU NOT
IMPLYING PARTAKING OF THE LORDS SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYER, AND THE READING
OF THE LORDS WORD IS NOT WORSHIP?

(WORSHIP LEADER AND SONG LEADER IS NOT THE SAME THING. AS WORSHIP LEADER,
[............ ] IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORDS SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORDS WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE. )

IF WOMEN AND MEN IN THE FRONT PEW HELPS THE WORSHIP WITH THEIR
MIKES, WHY NOT GIVE A MIKE TO EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE?

(WE ARE CURRENTLY STUDYING THIS MATTER.)





2:

CAN WE HEAR FROM YOU MORE OFTEN IN A WRITTEN FORM?

(WE FEEL THAT MORE WRITTEN COMMUNICATION FROM THE ELDERS TO THE MEMBERS
IS A GREAT IDEA!! CONSIDERATION WILL BE GIVEN TO FINDING A BETTER WAY OF
COMMUNICATING TO THE CONGREGATION ON REGULAR BASIS; PERHAPS BY AN ARTICLE
IN THE MARCHER EACH MONTH.)



3:

WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO REPENT, AND HOW LONG ARE YOU GONNA WALK DOWN THIS
ROAD AND SEE EVERYTHING FALLING APART?

(REPENTANCE IS A PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY OF EACH INDIVIDUAL PERSON.)



4:

A FEW WEEKS AGO YOU MADE A DECISION, YOUR DECISION THAT SOME PEOPLE
WOULD LIKE AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD NOT LIKE, BUT YOU MADE A DECISION BECAUSE
I THOUGHT THAT YOU HAD VISION. DO WE HAVE THE - DO YOU ELDERS HAVE THE
FAITH IN THE BODY OF CHRIST TO KNOW THAT IT IS GOD’S MERCY THAT EVERYONE
OF US IS HERE TODAY?

(YES, THE ELDERSHIP DOES BELIEVE THAT IT IS THROUGH GOD’S MERCY THAT
EVERYONE OF US IS HERE TODAY.)



5:

IF THE WORSHIP FORMAT OF THE SECOND SERVICE IS SCRIPTURALLY CORRECT,
IS THERE SOMEWAY TO STANDARDIZE BOTH SERVICES SO THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE
A DIVISION IN THE CHURCH?

(THE INTENT AND PURPOSE BEHIND HAVING TWO SERVICES CONTAINING DIFFERENT
WORSHIP STYLES IS TO GIVE OUR MEMBERS A CHOICE. WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT
HAVING TWO SERVICES IS DIVISIVE.)

I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE THREE ELDERS PLUS [...........] AND
[.............] ON THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT THE ENTIRE
ELDERSHIP COULD OVERSEE THE WORSHIP FORMAT SO THAT WE MIGHT BE MORE CONSISTENT
EACH WEEK?



(BECAUSE OF TIME RESTRICTIONS, MUCH OF THE WORK DONE BY THE ELDERSHIP
IS THROUGH COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS. THE ELDERSHIP RECENTLY ADDED ONE ADDITIONAL
MEMBER AND ONE ALTERNATE TO WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THERE ARE CURRENTLY FOUR
ELDERS AND TWO ALTERNATES PLUS [.........] AND [.......]ON THE COMMITTEE.
THE ENTIRE ELDERSHIP DOES DISCUSS AND APPROVE THE WORSHIP FORMAT FOR THE
FOLLOWING WEEK AND GIVE DIRECTION TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE ON AN OUTGOING
BASIS. )

IS THERE SOMEWAY TO HAVE A BALANCED SERVICE WITH SINGING, PREACHING,
PRAYER, AND COMMUNION?

(THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE DOES ATTEMPT TO BALANCE THE VARIOUS WORSHIP COMPONENTS
IN KEEPING WITH THE “THEME” OF THE SERVICE ALSO THE WORSHIP STYLE OF THE
SERVICE WOULD DETERMINE THE TIME ALLOCATION OF THE VARIOUS WORSHIP COMPONENTS.)

WHEN A STATEMENT IS READ FROM THE ELDERS TO THE CONGREGATION,
SHOULDN'T THAT LETTER BE READ AND APPROVED BY ALL THE ELDERS BEFORE IT
IS READ?

(IN THE FUTURE, WE WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ALL OF THE ELDERS THE OPPORTUNITY
TO SEE AND APPROVE THE ACTUAL STATEMENT BEFORE IT IS READ OR GIVEN OUT
TO THE CONGREGATION.)

ARE THERE PLANS TO INCORPORATE THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST NOW
OR IN THE NEAR FUTURE?

(THERE ARE NO PLANS TO INCORPORATE THE MADISON CHURCH OF CHRIST.)



6:

WHY HAVE SOME OF YOU ELDERS DIVIDED THE LORD’S CHURCH BY ALLOWING
[...............................] TO CHANGE THE WORSHIP TO THE POINT THAT
IT HAS CAUSED A LOT OF MEMBERS TO STATE THAT THEY CAN NO LONGER WORSHIP
AS THEY SHOULD?

([......................] DID NOT CHANGE THE WORSHIP. THE
ELDERS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY AND ALL CHANGES WHICH HAVE TAKEN PLACE IN
PAST AND PRESENT WORSHIP SERVICES. [..........]IS SIMPLY IMPLEMENTING OUR
DECISIONS.

THE ELDERSHIP FEELS THAT ALL MEMBERS CAN WORSHIP AT MADISON “AS
THEY SHOULD”.)

DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY OF OUR MEMBERS NO LONGER ATTEND
HERE?





(BECAUSE OF VARIOUS REASONS, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO STATE THE EXACT
NUMBER OF OUR MEMBERS WHICH NO LONGER ATTEND HERE. AMONG THESE REASONS
IS A FAILURE OF THE MEMBERS TO NOTIFY THE CHURCH THAT THEY ARE MOVING THEIR
MEMBERSHIPS.)

ARE YOU CONCERNED, AND HAVE YOU CONTACTED THEM TO BRING THEM BACK?

(THE ELDERSHIP IS EXTREMELY CONCERNED ABOUT ANY MEMBER WHO HAS
LEFT.

WE ARE VERY INTERESTED IN GETTING THEM BACK IN MADISON!!

MANY CONTACTS ARE MADE WITH THOSE WE KNOW WHO LEAVE THE CONGREGATION.)

BRETHREN, DO YOU NOT FEAR GOD? ARE YOU NOT MINDFUL THAT ONE DAY
YOU WILL STAND BEFORE GOD AND GIVE AN ACCOUNT FOR DESTROYING THE UNITY
OF THE CHURCH THAT HAS BEEN A LIGHT TO THE WORLD FOR SO LONG?

(THE ELDERSHIP DOES “FEAR GOD” AND ARE VERY AWARE OF THE TREMENDOUS
RESPONSIBILITY WHICH WE ALL BARE.

WE AGREE THAT EACH PERSON, INCLUDING ELDERS, WILL ONE DAY “STAND
BEFORE GOD AND GIVE AN ACCOUNT”.)

WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO MEET WITH JIM BILL MCINTEER AND WILLARD
COLLINS TO DISCUSS THE DIVISION OF THIS CONGREGATION?

(CONSIDERATION IS CURRENTLY BEING GIVEN TO INVITING VARIOUS INDIVIDUALS
IN TO “COUNSEL” WITH US CONCERNING VARIOUS ISSUES. PERHAPS AT SOME POINT,
THIS MAY INCLUDE THESE TWO GODLEY MEN.)







7:

IS THIS POLICY ( POLICY IN THE MADISON STORY ) STILL IN FORCE
- THAT THOSE ELDERS WHO FIND THEMSELVES IN THE MINORITY IN A DECISION WILL
GRACIOUSLY SUBMIT TO THE POSITION OF THE MAJORITY IN ORDER TO PERSERVE
THE UNITY OF SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE?

(THE ABOVE STATED IS CURRENTLY THE METHOD USED BY THE ELDERSHIP TO MAKE
DECISIONS CONCERNING ISSUES WHICH COME UP. THIS METHOD IS ONLY USED AFTER
MUCH PRAYER, STUDY, DISCUSSION, AND DELIBERATION ON THE PART OF THE ELDERSHIP.
)

IF THE ABOVE POLICY IS STILL IN EFFECT AS IT WAS PUBLISHED ( IN
THE MADISON STORY ), THEN WOULD YOU PLEASE, EACH (ELDER) GIVE US A PERSONAL
INDIVIDUAL STATEMENT EXPRESSING YOUR SUPPORT FOR THAT FEBRUARY 4TH ANNOUNCEMENT
(CONCERNING THE SECOND SERVICE BEING A MORE CONTEMPORARY WORSHIP)?

(EACH INDIVIDUAL ELDER DOES ENDORSE THE ABOVE STATEMENT.)



8:

WHAT'S THE SCRIPTURAL BASIS THAT YOU HAVE FOR LETTING WOMEN, NAMELY
[...............] AND [..........] TEACH AND ASSIST IN TEACHING OUR 7TH
GRADE YOUNG MEN, MANY OF WHOM HAVE ALREADY BEEN BAPTIZED?

(WITHIN OUR STUDENT MINISTRY, THE HUSBAND / WIFE TEAM CONCEPT OF TEACHING
IS USED IN SOME CLASSES. THERE IS ALWAYS A MALE PRESENT IN CLASS IN A LEADERSHIP
ROLE. THE ELDERSHIP BELIEVES THAT THIS OCCURRED IN THE CASES ABOVE. )

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT SCRIPTURAL AUTHORITY DO THE ELDERS HAVE
THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE THE WANTS AND WISHES AND DESIRES OF 20 OR 30 PERCENT
OF OUR CONGREGATION - AND NEVER CONSULT THE OTHER PART OF THE CONGREGATION.

(THE DESIRE OF THE ELDERSHIP IS TO MAKE EACH WORSHIP SERVICE THE MOST
WORSHIPFUL EXPERIENCE POSSIBLE FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL IN ORDER TO ENHANCE
THEIR SPIRITUAL RELATIONSHIP TO THEIR LORD.)

WHY IS IT MORE SCRIPTURAL TO SATISFY A FEW AND DRIVE OFF MANY
OF THE MAJORITY?

(THE DESIRE OF THE ELDERSHIP IS TO NOT DRIVE OFF ANYONE!!)

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO KNOW WHEN THE FOUR OF FIVE OR SIX ELDERS
THAT DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS DIVISION ARE GONNA STAND UP AND BE COUNTED?

(THE ELDERSHIP DOES NOT CONDONE OR WANT ANY DIVISION IN THIS CONGREGATION.)

WHAT IS GAINED BY MOVING THE LORD’S SUPPER BY ANYBODY SPIRITUALLY
WHEN IT UPSETS SO MANY OF OUR ELDERLY BRETHREN? WHAT ARE GAINING BY THIS?

(THE PURPOSE OF MOVING THE LORD’S SUPPER PLATES AND TRAYS TO THE SIDE
WALLS WAS TO GIVE THE MEN WHO SERVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT WITH THEIR FAMILIES
DURING MOST OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE.

THEY WALK TO THE “SIDE LOCATIONS” AT THE START OF THE COMMUNION AND
THEN BACK TO SIT WITH THEIR FAMILIES AT THE END OF THE COMMUNION.)



9:

WHY HAVE SOME OF THE ELDERS COME TO EMBRACE THE CHARISMATIC, PENTECOSTAL
MOVEMENT THAT IS SWEEPING THROUGH MANY CHURCHES AND DENOMINATIONS ACROSS
THE LAND WITHOUT CONSULTING THIS MEMBERSHIP?

(THE ELDERSHIP DOES NOT WANT TO EMBRACE ANY “MOVEMENT”.

IT IS THE INTENT OF THE ELDERSHIP TO FOCUS ON EACH PERSON CONNECTING
SPIRITUALLY WITHIN THE DYNAMICS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE.)

WHY HAVE THEY (THE ELDERS) OVERSEEN THE DEPARTURE OF OVER 1500
MEMBERS WITH MORE LEAVING EACH WEEK?

(EVEN THOUGH THE CHURCH’S ATTENDANCE RECORDS IN RECENT YEARS DOES
NOT REFLECT A LOST OF MEMBERS OF THIS MAGNITUDE, THE ELDERSHIP IS EXTREMELY
CONCERNED ABOUT ANY MEMBER WHO HAS LEFT.)

WHY DO THEY (THE ELDERS) NOT CHOOSE TO WALK THROUGH THE AUDITORIUM
OUT THERE?

(THE ELDERS DO WALK THROUGH THE AUDITORIUM MANY TIMES. WE ARE CONTINUING
TO MAKE OURSELVES AVAILABLE TO TALK TO MEMBERS OF THE CONGREGATION BEFORE
AND AFTER SERVICES AS WELL AS BY PHONE AND E-MAIL.)

(WHY WERE) [.........] AND [............] PUSHED OUT OF THEIR
REGULAR SEATS TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE PRAISE TEAM?

(THE ELDERSHIP IS FOLLOWING UP WITH NATHAN AND SHIRLEY ON THIS ISSUE.)



10:

IF THOSE DEACONS WHO ARE STILL GIVING WOULD INCREASE THEIR CONTRIBUTION,
WHAT PERCENTAGE WOULD IT TAKE TO GET US BACK UP TO SPEED, BACK UP TO BUDGET?

(IT WOULD REQUIRE AN [..........] PERCENT INCREASE.)





11:

IF MAJOR CHANGES ARE REQUIRED IN THE WORSHIP, DOES THIS MEAN THAT
ALL OUR PAST WORSHIP HAS BEEN IN VAIN OR SINFUL? HAVE WE BEEN DOING THINGS
WRONG ALL THESE PAST TIMES?

(THE ELDERSHIP DOES NOT FEEL THAT PAST WORSHIP AT THIS CHURCH “HAS BEEN
VAIN OR SINFUL”.)

HAVE THESE NEW WORSHIP CHANGES SPAWNED PEACE AND UNITY OR HAS
IT CAUSED DIVISION?

(WE ARE CURRENTLY STUDYING THIS MATTER).

SINCE CLAPPING IS USED IN THE BIBLE MAINLY FOR DERISION, SHOULD
WE USE THAT IN SERVICE?

(WE ARE CURRENTLY STUDYING THIS MATTER).

SHOULD WE LOOK TO DO ALL THINGS IN WORSHIP OR WHAT IS EXPEDIENT?

(THE ELDERSHIP FEELS THAT WE NEED TO BE SCRIPTURAL IN ALL MATTERS.)

IS IT RIGHT FOR AN ELDER TO TELL PEOPLE, IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT
WE’RE ARE DOING, THEN YOU CAN LEAVE?

(NO, IT WOULD NOT BE PROPER FOR AN ELDER TO MAKE THE ABOVE STATEMENT.)

HAVE THE CHANGES IN WORSHIP BROUGHT A REPROACH OR A BLESSING ON
THE CHURCH?

(WE ARE CURRENTLY STUDYING THIS MATTER).

HAVE THESE THINGS (TV NEWSCAST, JUBILEES, SUMMER SPECTACULARS,
AND PLAYS) BROUGHT DISSENT FORM OTHER BROTHERS IN OTHER CONGREGATION?

(PERHAPS.)

HAS THE CHURCH BEGUN TO BE IN COMPETITION WITH ENTERTAINMENT?

(IT IS NOT OUR GOAL TO ENTERTAIN.)





HAS THE GOSPEL CHANGED, WHY SHOULD WE CHANGE THE WAY (WE) WORSHIPED
IN THE PAST UNLESS WE BE CONVICTED BY SCRIPTURE THAT THE PAST HAS BEEN
SINFUL IN THE WAY THAT WE HAVE WORSHIPED?

(THE BIBLICAL PRINCIPALS OF THE GOSPEL HAVE NOT CHANGED, HOWEVER, THE
METHODS BY WHICH THEY ARE TAUGHT AND APPLIED TO OUR LIVES DOES CHANGE.)

This is baloney. No wonder so many are leaving the Churches of Christ. You're more concerned with your environment changes than the changes the Gospel can make in a persons life. Baloney.

How could Christ smile on such division? I know Iron must sharpen Iron but this is far from that. From this and many other articles on this web site division seems to be the desire and not Truth. I pray the lost never find it.

John,

In another thread (“Anger, Venom and Hostility…”), you said,

“I am new to your web site and have been looking for information to help formulate a defense against the Church Growth Movement which has infiltrated my own church family by way of both the Willow Creek Association and The Purpose Driven Saddleback Church model. It is ironic however that….”

Then, I became somewhat suspicious because the rest of what you said gave me (and perhaps others) the impression that you weren’t able to find anything here that would be useful to you in YOUR defense against the CGM, Willow Creek and Saddleback conglomerate. Instead, you made the same remarks that proponents of these movements would use against those whom they infiltrate. That’s what I would consider an irony.

Your post above, “Can He smile?” confirms my suspicion, in my opinion. Are you really in defense against CGM and Rick Warren’s church growth methodology? And what are you doing, meanwhile, since your church family has been infiltrated by these forces? [Never mind the question—you’re not going to oppose them, anyway. Why? Because according to your logic, opposition to outside influences and interferences and defending the truth leads to division. How sad and unfortunate!]

John, I’m sorry. But the only statement I’m in agreement with you is your question, “How could Christ smile on such division?” Of course, the Lord is unhappy about any division in his church. Both you and I know that. But for you to accuse this site of being divisive is total absurdity. On one hand, it is the purpose-driven methodology for “numerical” church growth that has wreaked havoc in many churches. On the other hand, this website strongly opposes worldly- and culture-driven methodologies being forcibly implemented in churches that desire to be left alone. Now, you’re accusing the website that opposes CGM and Rick Warren’s scheme as being divisive?

I hope that you realize soon that a congregation or church, such as yours, being infiltrated becomes the victim, and thus suffers in the end. But then I have no control over your judgment to allow the Willowcreek Association to acquire your church.

Donnie