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October 5 2005, 11:28 AM 


I checked the most recent HCC membership role...I even check the past twenty years of HCC membership role. Do you know what I found? YOU'RE NOT ON IT!!! So what is happening at HCC and what will happen in the future at HCC is none of your business. One of the beautiful things about the Lord's (not your) churhc is Autonomy! Each congregation is self governing by its Eldership. If you are not a part of this autonomous congregation you have NO SAY!


Youth Minister

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Ken Sublett
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October 5 2005, 9:03 PM 

F. LaGard Smith of Lipscomb said that if we FIRE all of the youth ministers ALL of the trouble in the church would go away. Do you buy that?

You do know, I hope, that God didn't establish a CERTIFICATE OF NEED for youth ministers. A minister is a slave and slaves don't talk back to their seniors. So, we have you riding TANDEM SADDLE on the backs of widows and hard working HONEST PEOPLE.

I supposed you are all filled up to the arrogant level with rank ignorance of the Bible, church history, the Restoration Movement and the heresy movements. Did you by the way get your certificate from ACU as a "Prophet, Chaneller and Facilitator" to go SOW DISCORD? I suppose you don't grasp that the Bible and all known evidence points to Satan (Lucifer or Zoe) as the source of MUSIC used to destroy the minds of the youth?

You do know that there is no law of SANGING? The word for those of us without a PhDuh is SPEAK which is not MUSIC. Did you know that the Psallo word you guys use for MAKING MUSIC simply means to PLUCK. Did you know that all of the known literature uses the word of an older male PLUCKING harp strings to groam a young "youth minister?" Don't bow to Baal when they PIPE: Jesus refused to SING and DANCE.

Well, there is no law of TITHING so you have to live on STOLEN money. And there is NO LAW OF GIVING so you have to be a bandit beyond redemption to MINISTER as MASTER to keep the kiddies entertained. Are you going to teach them singy-clappy praise songs or are you advanced to "cut outs and paste ups" for the seniors?

So, you had better listen to Donnie who has the COMMISSION of Jesus to go preach the gospel beginning at YOUR theater for holy entertainment. Then, he has the mandate to TEST THE SPIRITS even if they are riding broomsticks somewhere else. Then he has the FIRST AMMENDMENT to say whatever he wishes. That is going to become more and more popular as we INFORM the world that WURSHUP-uh Centers are pagan ritual centers founded to lade the SPIRITUAL ANXIETY created by religious rituals. So, we are EXORCISING "youthful" ministers, giving, sanging, preaching, house building and stage managing. And, lordy, they are pouring out and THAT is why all failures turn back to BABYLONINISM.

You won't find selling used toothbrushes that hard: at lest it would be honest.

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Ken Sublett
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October 5 2005, 11:38 PM 

Donnie: as I remember it Hermitage tried to do a radical breakout into the Purpose Driven Cult about the time they were OUTED at Madison. I seem to remember bj or someone saying that the deacons had FIRED the elders and preacher. That might jog some memories.

Of course, their plan is to back off but never retreat and then make another lunge. That's the Lynn Anderson "prayerful brinkmanship" scam.

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Donnie Cruz
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Something must be happening...

October 8 2005, 1:17 AM 


What an interesting observation! It appears from the tone of Jason’s defensive post that the Hermitage congregation must have been experiencing a revival of the culture-driven church growth scam in recent weeks or months.

You may recall that the upheaval at Madison in early 2001 caught me and many others by surprise. Although I was noticing “strange” things happening, I didn’t even realize what was causing the problem. The changes were so gradual and subtle during the entire 90’s decade. And the PDC cult was so quick to send its own resolution team to mediate in the big trouble that the change agents created in the first place.

I really feel for the Hermitage body the same way I’ve felt for Madison all along. The non-conforming members become the victims; alienation is inevitable; the takeover ensues.

Let’s just hope and pray that this church will get over this problem without being told to “get over it” only so that the leadership could move on and carry out the Warren scheme.


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Donnie Cruz
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Jason, welcome!

October 8 2005, 7:20 PM 


We welcome you to the forum. Let us hope that we will be able to civilly discuss issues concerning the Hermitage body of Christians or Madison or churches of Christ in general.

It shouldn’t be of great concern to anyone if someone is not on a membership roll. I recall someone at Madison who may have spent much valuable time checking the membership directories dating back to the 90’s or the 80’s or even the 70’s and earlier—all for naught, since I did not have my picture in them. You know, as the song says, I’m simply going to wait, “When the roll is called up yonder, I’ll be there.”

You mentioned congregational autonomy. I strongly believe you are aware that this expression is only one of several prepared texts that promoters of church transformation use as their defense mechanisms.

Yes, you have aptly described autonomy—self-governing. But I believe that such cannot be separated from what the New Testament says regarding all the qualifications that the elders must have, including the ability to “labour in the word and doctrine” (I Tim. 5:17) … “holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine … to exhort…” (Titus 1:9).

In many of problems and issues confronting the autonomous congregation, the membership is not to blame. It certainly is the responsibility of the elders to be cognizant of potential problems that are about to occur. There’s much more to say regarding the subject of church autonomy, but I must say that autonomy does not give permission to the implementation of man-made or culture-driven or society-dictated scams and schemes that ignite and invite controversies and that are without scriptural support. And church autonomy does not keep a congregation from anonymity when it is in trouble.


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Donnie Cruz
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“If it should change only one misguided [church]….”

May 20 2006, 3:58 PM 

-----Original Message----- []
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 3:03 PM
Subject: Information


I hope you don't mind me contacting you. I obtained your email address from which I have been visiting for some time now. I was wondering if you could recommend any additional information concerning the community church movement. We are involved in a study of different faiths in our Sunday morning class. The teacher of our class is one of our elders, and I have suggested that we cover this topic. I plan on teaching the class and would certainly appreciate any suggestions besides what is available on the website. Thanks for your time.

________________, Al

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Donnie Cruz []
    Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 12:12 AM
    Subject: RE: Information [from ConcernedMembers: Madison]

    Dear _____________,

    I apologize for this very late response.

    I would like to forward to you a number of e-mails I have received from bro. John Waddey. He is one of my sources of information regarding CCM. His e-mails contain directions as to where to obtain additional information for your needs—he has written books dealing with CCM.

    Please visit John’s website: The “Biblical Studies” section under the “Various Studies” menu consists of many, many articles re: (1) “Things Most Surely Believed” and (2) “Bible Studies Addressing the Change Movement.” There are also many articles that reflect on “Change Movements of the Past” in “Historical and Biographical Studies.”

    There’s a wealth of information in “Book Reviews.” (1) “Reviews of [41] Books Promoting Change” and (2) [17] “Resource Materials You Need to Read.”

    There are 16 articles related to “Effective Preaching in the Face of the Change Movement” in the “Change Movement Sermons Series.” Plus, other sections such as “Strategy for Victory” and “Questions & Answers,” not to mention hundreds of articles from the “Monthly Magazine Archive,” may be of interest to you.

    Of course, there are several threads on dealing with the Community Church Movement (please be reminded that there are 5 index pages that may contain threads on CCM):

    I hope I’ve been able to help.

    May I invite you to post or respond to messages at ConcernedMembers?

    Thank you so much for your correspondence.

    In His service,


      -----Original Message-----
      From: []
      Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 5:32 PM
      Subject: Re:John Waddey

      Dear Bro. Donnie:

      Thanks for forwarding the letter you shared with [_____________]. I hope he will utilize the materials on the website.

      We are now mailing our CTN paper to all the mainstream churches in America, some 9,500 of them.

      We press on to add other areas of outreach that will further strengthen our ranks and block the progress of the promoters of change.

      God be with you.

      John Waddey


      -----Original Message----- []
      Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:11 PM
      To: Donnie Cruz
      Subject: RE: Information [from ConcernedMembers: Madison]


      I just wanted to thank you for the information you sent concerning the community church. It should serve to be very helpful. Keep up the great work in regards to your well thought out postings on Concernedmembers. If it should change only one misguided soul, your efforts will have been well worth your time and energy and without a doubt, well pleasing to our Heavenly Father!

      In Him,

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

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5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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