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SECRET CONVERSION PART 7
GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER
One of the signs of the "church growth movement" is the presence of a "worship leader". What is a worship leader?
First, to understand what is happening, you must know about the World Council of Churches. One of its goals is to bring all Churches, Muslin, Christian, Buddhist, Wicca, occultist and pagan religions of all sorts together under one umbrella. They don't hide this.
It was determined around 1962 that the best way to accomplish this goal was through a charismatic and contemporary music format. The best way to implement these changes was through a slow and gradual infiltration, which has become known (among other things) as the "church growth movement."
What we see today, with the rise of the "worship leader," is one of the tools that brings about change in the church. Since "music" is the key to make all this happen, then the "worship leader" will also be the "music" leader.
These people think the word of God needs a little help to reach all the "‘unchurched’ and ‘disenchanted." The "worship leader” has also become a big part of their "outreach ministry."
One of the Deacons at my former church asked the Elders about "worship leaders." Now, these men claim not to be working in "lock step" with the "Church Growth movement," but they sure know about "worship leaders," This what they said:
"IS RESPONSIBLE FOR PLANNING ALL AREAS OF THE WORSHIP SERVICE
AND THEN PRESENTING THESE PLANS TO THE WORSHIP COMMITTEE. THIS INCLUDES
THE LORD’S SUPPER, GIVING, PRAYERS, AND THE READING OF THE LORD,S WORD AS
WELL AS THE SONG SERVICE"(4)
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This is a want ad for a "worship leader:"(3)
Job Description: St Matthew’s Lutheran Church is passionate about reaching out to the richly diverse and secular neighbors whom we share the freeway with. We are looking for a Minister of Worship & Celebration (Lay or Ordained) who is wired to empower heart-felt worship using today’s music, multi-media and the arts. We are a grace driven ministry that relies upon team building to reach those who normally would not check out church. We tend to be a bit irreverent. We bring our coffee into worship and do not tend to attract the squeaky clean. We are looking for a leader who knows it’s not about them
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There are magazines and web sites(3) dedicated to the “worship leader." This has become a big business. Here is an excerpt form a recent article in a "worship leader" magazine telling a little about what they believe:
The Spoken Voice
1. Speaking - Psalm 34:1 says, "I will extol the Lord at all times; his praise will always be on my lips."
2. Shouting - Psalm 27:6 says, "Then my head will be exalted above the enemies who surround me; at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy; I will sing and make music to the Lord."
3. Singing - Psalm 47:6 says, "Sing praises to God, sing praises to our King, sing praises."
Our Posture
1. Bowing - Psalm 95:6 says, "Come let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the Lord our Maker."
2. Standing - Psalm 119:120 says, "My flesh trembles in fear of you; I stand in awe of your laws."
3. Dancing - Psalm 149:3 says, "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with tambourine and harp."
Our Hands
1. Playing Instruments - Psalm 33:2, 3 says, "Praise the Lord with the harp; make music to him on the ten stringed lyre. Sing to him a new song; play skillfully, and shout for joy."
2. Clapping - Psalm 47:1 says, "Clap your hands, all you nations; shout to God with cries of joy."
3. Lifting Hands - Psalm 63:4 says, "I will praise you as long as I live, and in your name I will lift up my hands."
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They always give David as their license, but, God tells us in Amos 6:5--Woe to those that act like David:
AMOS 6:5
"That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of music, like David;"
You may ask, is a "worship leader" Biblical? In a way, they are. You see God created the first "worship leader".
Ezekiel 28:13-16
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14 You were the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.
16 By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones
Note: "tambrels" are tamborines and "pipes" are wind instruments.
It's no wonder that Satan is called the "enchanter." He has been using music from the very beginning to seduce his prey. It started early with the Bablyonian and Egyptian civilizations in which they would dance, clap, sing and play to their gods. The only thing most contemporary Churches are not doing presently is bringing the gods clean cloths everyday.
From the continent of Africa, where Voodoo chants called up the evil spirits to the shores of America , Satan has always been the user of music and the "worship leader" extraordinaire.
Isaiah14:11-12
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, And the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
Let's take a look at how Satan uses others to seduce us with his music:
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From Musician Carlos Santana:
Santana admits that his success is tied to a spiritual entity. Santana also claims that he has contact with the spirits of musicians who have died, such as Jimi Hendrix and Miles Davis. Santana has claimed that other artists who participated on his album, Supernatural, were brought to him supernaturally to be a part of Metatron's project. He claimed that they heard his music, or were communicated to in dreams, and were told they were to be part of the project.(1)
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (1 John 4:1)
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Eminem is the most successful artist of the 21st century. His Marshall Mathers LP sold an incredible 1.76 million copies in its first week, which is the highest first-week sale for a solo artist in history:
" I take seven [kids] from [columbine] and stand 'em all in line. Add an AK-47, a revolver, a nine, a Mac-11 and this ought to solve this problem of mine. And that's a whole school of bullies shot up all of the time, 'cause I'm Shady…"
" I take each individual degenerate's head and reach into it, just to see if he's influenced by me, if he listens to music, and if he feeds into this sh**, he's an innocent victim, and becomes a puppet on the string…"
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Rolling Stone admitted:
"A song or an album can change your life; a great concert will change it on the spot."
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Tori Amos, who said that Lucifer sits at her piano and helps her with her music, said:
" Music is the most powerful medium in the world because of the frequencies. You're hitting places in people that remind them that they are more than just this functional being."
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Science writer and composer, Robert Jourdain, wrote in his book, Music, The Brain And Ecstacy:
" Music seems to be the most immediate of all the arts. …Music possesses us. …It really is as if some 'other' has entered not just our bodies, but our intentions, taking us over."
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Medical Dr. and brain specialist, Richard Pellegrino, who is a consultant to the entertainment industry, wrote an article for Billboard Magazine , about the power of music. Dr. Pellegrino speaks of the incomparable power of music upon the human brain, stating that music has the uncanny power to:
"… trigger a flood of human emotions and images that have the ability to instantaneously produce very powerful changes in emotional states."
Pellegrino went on to declare:
" Take it from a brain guy. In 25 years of working with the brain, I still cannot affect a person's state of mind the way that one simple song can."
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Eminem states in his song, Marshall Mathers:
"I think I was put here to…destroy your little 4-year-old boy or girl."
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Frank Zappa, who was quite anti-Christ, said that when he saw a fish on the back of someone's car he identified them as the enemy. He also admitted to the incredible power and influence rock music has over the human race. In an article he wrote for Life Magazine, he stated:
"The ways in which sound affects the human organism are myriad and subtle. The loud sounds and bright lights of today are tremendous indoctrination tools.
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AC/DC was up-front with their fans when they made it clear that they not only found their fame in a rock band by Satan's power, but that they desired to drag their listeners into eternal damnation with them, "if God's on the left, I'm on the right…I'm gonna take ya to hell…I'm gonna get'cha-Satan got 'cha, Hell's Bells…If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine."
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Michael Jackson:
"When I hit the stage it’s all of a sudden a magic from somewhere that comes and the spirit just hits you, and you lose control of yourself."
"I wake up from dreams and go, ‘Wow! Put this down on paper!’ The whole thing is strange. You hear the words, everything is right there in front of your face. And you say to yourself, ‘I’m sorry, I just didn’t write this. It’s there already’. I feel that somewhere, someplace, it’s all been done, and I’m the courier bringing it into the world."
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From these two sites (1)(2) alone I count well over 85 well known and famous music performers in all areas of music, Christian, blues, and Rock N Roll, that profess to be Satanically driven, or use pagan symbolism in their performances.
This list includes people like Robert Johnson-The Father of Blues, Elvis Presley, The Beatles, and even Amy Grant!
Dear Lord, please forgive us for what we have brought into your Church.
You left out some very important satanic references:
It was Van Halen who was "Dancing with the Devil"...
Mitch Ryder who saw the "Devil in a Blue Dress",
and,
"The Devil Went Down to Georgia" with Charlie Daniels,
famous Satan worshipper.
Did you know that if you play "Stairway to Heaven" backwards it says, "The worship leaders are coming to take you away?"
Did you know the old Carpenter's hit "Close to You"
is about the worship leader in a sackcloth drawing near to the tower of Babel?
My personal favorite is the re-working of "Rock of Ages" by Def Leppard.
"Beer Barrel Polka" was written after a jewish bar mitzvah in which a man claimed he was a part of the Alan Parsons Project.
I knew it wouldn't take long to get to the root of our problems....
Elvis and The Beatles....
Thank you for all that you are doing to keep us on the George Strait and narrow....
It had me laughing out loud too. That Dal's a funny guy and very absurd. You accomplished your illustration of absurdity also preacherman as well as immaturity and gleeful ignorance. I especially enjoyed your lines referencing "AWESOME" and "DUDE;DUDE". That sounds to me like the entire subject matter of yours and Dal's rebuttals. This might go to the Vipers Den but thats ok.
Isn't it just TOO PRESSHUSH for words that the "church ladies" who "wore beards" in the early literature to take over the ekklesia (church) in order to add music are NOW working miracles. And they ALL apparently confess that they are INSPIRED by the Devil and many return to Africa the source of later VOODOO.
What? Where? Well with ABSOLUTELY 0 information about MUSIC and the worship of a Spirit God on their side; and with 100% of the Biblical and historical data associating it with SATAN (Lucifer, Zoe) whose AGENTS were prostitutes or perverts, they are ENABLED by ADVANCED SCOUTS to sniff out places where they can WORK THE MIRACLE of the old SHELL GAME FROM HELL.
It is UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE without "suprnatural help" that most churches--including musical churches--were suddenly INFILTRATED and DIVERTED by the use of PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS whose persona from Eden onward has been of sexual perverts.
Re.13:14 And DECEIVETH them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast (stinging animals); saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound (a PLAGUE) by a sword, and did live.
The DECEIVERS are the WANDERING STARS reserved in judgment. They are the FALLEN ANGELS in all of the literature. When Israel engaged in perverted musical idolatry at Mount Sinai, God TURNED THEM OVER to worship the STARRY HOST. An important deity was Chiun or Saturn whose number is 666.
Jude links these congenital deceivers as VERY OLD AGENTS of Satan to The Book of Enoch. Enoch in turn links all of the EARTHLY ARTS including ENCHANTMENTS (music) to the WANDERING STARS (Dal, do you wander or wonder?). As I have noted, I have collected 36 major historical documents. They ALL link the MIRACLE POWER of SATAN to music and ASSURE US that God "will come with ten thousands of His saints to EXECUTE judgment" on these agents who introduced CHOIRS, INSTRUMENTS, CLERGY ROBES AND SEXUAL PERVERSION. God likewise came with these ten thousand at Mount Sinai and the Jews were under the CURSE of God now seen as the PATTERN for church.
ALL of the Jewish Monarchy period was God picking kings to lead them into CAPTIVITY AND DEATH as the sentence imposed at Mount Sinai because of musical idolatry. As we noted elsewhere they later fornicated and "worshipped" Baal-Peor by defecating in his presence. Psalm 106 repeats this history and says that they ATE these sacrifices. Wow. Maybe that is why Jesus CAST OUT the musical worship team LIKE DUNG??
Isn't it a miracle when David NEVER played instruments and sang as a WORSHIP LEADER? Worship was OUTSIDE THE CAMP in the synagogue or church in the wilderness which began under Moses where music was OUTLAWED.
Here is a typical example of David worshipping IN SPIRIT which is the ONLY PLACE God will meet us:
"I remembered God, and was troubled: I complained, and my spirit was overwhelmed. Selah. Ps.77:3
--I call (Mention, burn incense) to remembrance my song (h5058) in the night:
--I commune with MINE OWN heart:
--and MY SPIRIT made diligent SEARCH. Psalm 77:6
SIYACH (H7878) see'-akh; a prim. root; to ponder, i. e. (by impl.) converse (with oneself, and hence aloud) or (trans.) utter: - commune, complain, declare, meditate, muse, pray, speak, talk (with).
Paul REALLY said that we could SPEAK TO OURSELVES if we use the Psalms to teach one another.
For we are the circumcision,
--which worship God IN the spirit,
--and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
--and have NO confidence in the flesh. Phil 3:3
Praying always with all prayer and supplication
--IN the SPIRIT,
--and watching thereunto with all perseverance
and supplication for all saints; Eph 6:18
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
--PRAYING IN the Holy Spirit, Jude 20NKJV
I was IN the SPIRIT on the Lords day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Re.1:10
If the Bible has ANY credibility and if Jesus who called them THE SEED OF THE SERPENT, Cain was OF that Evil one, the SELF-SPEAKERS have the Devil as their "father," Satan fell (having fell) as lightening, the LOCUSTS (musical performers) and on and on, then you HAVE to believe that these MIRACLE WORKERS who can build a world-wide WORSHIP SCHEME on the practice which the Bible and all history says was INTRODUCED BY SATAN then they ARE the END TIME "Wandering Stars."
TheY try to MURDER the truth: don't believe that they will not be 10ERs if need be.
Judas who carried the JUDAS BAG for carrying the mouthpieces or tongues of the flute also speaks of "speaking in tongues" and "of the COSMOS" which belongs to Satan or the Kosmokrator.
SATAN is the father/mother of all musical, spectacle, dramatic "worship" which is IDOLATROUS false "worship." Their goal is to PERVERT the Word (Tithing) on each and every point. Only by being put into a schizophrenic state can the MUSICAL LOCUSTS seduce you and work the "miracle" from hell.
Just read these SMELLING, PERFUMED "song" and you will know what I mean.
The gift of A holy spirit is the gift of a CLEAR CONSCIOUSNESS or co-perception with the Word of Christ. This means that a CHRISTIAN is A DISCIPLE and a LISTENER to Jesus Christ the ONLY Teacher Who DIED to give us the FREE Word which He said "is SPIRIT and LIFE."
As a DISCIPLE the story of Lucifer rings the BELL after one second in the RING.
"All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your HARPS; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you. Is.14:11
--"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning STAR, son of the dawn! You have been CAST down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! Isaiah 14:12
----"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isaiah 14:13
------"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:14
IN THE SYMBOLISM OF THE TEMPLE HE WOULD INVADE THE HOLY PLACE AND THE MOST HOLY PLACE TO BE ONE OF THE CHERUBIM AGAIN. TAKING SINGERS OR MUSICIANS INTO THE "TYPE OF THE CHURCH" AND THE "HEAVENLY TABERNACLE" WAS A MORTAL SIN.
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT JESUS DEMANDS THAT ONLY HE SITS ON THE THRONE AND WE EITHER LISTEN TO LUCIFER THROUGH HIS MUSICIANS OR WE LISTEN TO JESUS CHRIST.
SO DON'T WORRY THAT THE "PREACHER-CREATURE" RESPONSE IS TO DESPISE YOUR BIBLICAL TEACHING.
"He that heareth you heareth me; and he that DESPISETH you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth HIM that SENT me. Luke 10:16
---And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the DEVILS are subject unto us through thy name. Luke 10:17
THESE ARE THE SAME DEMONS PAUL IN 1 COR 10 WARNED ABOUT. ISRAEL WORSHIPED THESE DEMONS WHEN THEY ROSE UP TO PLAY WHICH MEANS MUSICAL IDOLATRY WHICH ALWAYS SPOKE OF SEXUAL PERVERSION. For instance, you can CAST OUT THE TITHING DEMON just by exposing the PUBLICAN as a liar and repudiator of Jesus Christ and therefore a repudiator of God.
WHEN SATAN FALLS AFTER BEING SWATTED BY THE "SWORD OF THE SPIRIT" HE MAKES A LOT OF INARTICULATE GROANS AND CURSES BUT HE FALLS LIKE A TALL CEDAR TREE (ASSYRIA WAS THE "TALLEST" TREE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN)
----"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning FALL from heaven. Luke 10:18
THE LIGHTENING IS LIKE A SHOOTING STAR:
Astrape (g796) as-trap-ay'; from 797; lightning; by anal. glare: - lightning, bright shining.
Astrapto (h797) as-trap'-to; prob. from 792; to flash as lightning: - lighten, shine.
STICKS (BATS) AND STONES MIGHT CRACK YOUR BONES BUT WORDS WILL NOT BLEED AWAY YOUR POWER THROUGH SPEAKING THE WORD:
---"Behold, I give unto you power to TREAD on serpents (artful malicious person) and SCORPIONS, and over all the power of the enemy (SATAN): and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luke 10:19
A SCORPION IS:
--Skorpios (g4651) skor-pee'-os; prob. from an obsol. skerpo, (perh. strengthened from the base of 4649 (skeptic) and mean. to PIERCE); a "scorpion" (from its sting): - scorpion.
IN JOHN'S WORLD OF PATMOS HE COULD SEE THE GRAVE ISLAND OF "CIRCE" AS THE HOLY WHORE WHO USED MUSIC AND DRUGS (MAGICAL ENCHANTMENTS) TO SEDUCE AND THEN TURN HER DISCIPLES INTO "BEASTS" WHO LIVE IN THE DUST.
IN THE CLASSICAL MYTHS THE MUSES (REV 18) WERE SENT INTO SHEOL AS LOCUSTS. THEY WOULD BE RESURRECTED AS END-TIME "LOCUSTS": THEY WERE KNOWN AS "MUSICAL PERFORMERS" WHO PIERCED OR POLLUTED YOU WITH THEIR TAILS. UH! they also had "long hair" like scraggly beards?
A FLUTE RELATED TO LUCIFER, HALAL OR "VILE PRAISE" IS NAMED BECAUSE IT IS POLLUTED OR PIERCED:
--Chaliyl (h2485) khaw-leel'; from 2490; a flute (as PERFORATED): - pipe.
----2490 is to make self vile, to STEAL one's inheritance, to play the FLUTE, to pollute or PROSTITUTE.
YOU SEE, PART OF THE STINGING OF THE LOCUSTS WITH SCORPION TAILS IS TO CHASE YOU OUT OF YOUR CHURCH IF YOU HAVE THE "MARK OF THE WORD." HOWEVER, THOSE ALREADY MARKED BY THE STING OF MUSIC- INDUCED DRUGS ARE KEPT IN PLACE AND "TORTURED" MUCH LONGER. SURE, MUSIC WORKS BECAUSE THE "HIGH" IS PRODUCED BY "TORTURE" LIKE A RUNNER'S HIGH. Music "stings" you and injects a morphine- like drug through their "used needles."
THEY ARE MARKED BY SELF- CONFESSION OF BEING LIBERAL:
Skorpizo (g4650) skor-pid'-zo; appar. from the same as 4651 (through the idea of penetrating); to DISSIPATE, i.e. (fig.) put to FLIGHT, waste, be LIBERAL: - DISPERSE abroad, SCATTER (abroad).
IN THE END TIMES THE CHURCH OR CIRCE AS "HOLY WHORE"
--"And there came out of the smoke (Adulterate, a huckster) locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power ("public power"), as the scorpions of the earth have power. Rev 9:3
IN THE "DUDE" WORLD OF THE LOCUSTS PAUL DECLARED "I DON'T BLOW SMOKE."
--"For we are not as MANY, which CORRUPT the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we IN Christ. 2Co.2:17
JESUS IDENTIFIED THOSE WHO "SPEAK ON THEIR OWN" AS BEING OF THEIR "FATHER" THE DEVIL. HE SAID THAT THE SELF-SPEAK OF THE PHARISEES MADE THEM LIARS AND "THE SEED OF VIPERS."
LUCIFER WAS THE "WORSHIP LEADER" IN HEAVEN. HE DECIDED THAT HE COULD SEDUCE THE SPIRITUAL HOST. GOD, STEPPED ON HIS HEAD LIKE A RATTLESNAKE AND CAST (LIKE DUNG) HIM OUT OF HEAVEN.
HE BROUGHT HIS MUSICAL ENCHANTMENTS AS "WORSHIP LEADER" INTO THE GARDEN OF EDEN AND "WHOLLY SEDUCED" EVE WHILE "ADAM WENT WILLINGLY." OLDER WRITERS IN THE PERIOD OF THE "ORIGINAL" HEBREW OR CHALDEE IDENTIFY THE MUSIC-INDUCED "WORSHIP" AS SODOMY. THE SAME THING THEY TRIED ON JESUS WHEN THEY PIPED--JUST LIKE PROPHESIED IN PSALM 41. AND JUST LIKE WITH THE MIDIANITES AND BAAL- PEOR.
DON'T GO NEAR NO "WORSHIP LEADER": He is SEEKING worship for HIMSELF and HIS WORD, and therefore REPUDIATES JESUS which REPUDIATES GOD TOTALLY.
JESUS GAVE US POWER TO TREAD ON SPIRITUAL LOCUSTS (MUSICAL PERFORMERS WITH A PLAGUE-GIVING STING IN THEIR 'TAIL'] AND ALL THEY CAN 'SING' IS THE SQUEAK OF A LOCUST. THEIR FATHER (LUCIFER) OR MOTHER (ZOE) WOULD AT LEAST MISQUOTE SOME SCRIPTURE.
DON'T EVER BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE NOT SPRAYING ROACH POWDER. When the church emerges out of the SMOKE blown by JUBILEE and sister HOSTILE ASSUALTS nothing in history of music as an attack upon God's WORD gives them any hope of repenting (Heb 6)
The NASHVILLE CHURCH which still hasn't added CHRIST back into their title have written an interesting article which FITS MADISON. READ IT:
http://www.nashvillechurch.org/
Madison's elders are going to have to face it sooner or later!!
We have noted that some of the earliest sneak thieves stealing non-insrumental churches have strong CROSS ROADS roots. The Tulsa Workshop began with strong Boston Church of Christ or the International Church of Christ leanings.
Christianity Today announces that Kip McKean the leading light-snuffer after Chuck Lucas has resigned. Personal and family problems caused him to ZERO OUT. Of course, all CHURCH GROWTH schemes are built as a CULT of strong central leadership.
"Baird, the icoc's top spokesman, said the changes taking place at the icoc are "not over doctrinal issues, but over growth issues." RightCyberUp says that from 1999 to 2001, for every five people baptized into the icoc, another four left, causing the movement's high rate of growth to decline sharply."
Guess what! They have discovered that congregational autonomy might have been right all along. Of course with movements such as JUBILEE and the MUSICAL MENTORING of worship leaders the intention is to GROW a group depending on headquarters. In the end they all contain the SEED OF THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION.
Here is a search result in chase you need RECOVERY:
About the time the Laughing Revival, the Jubilee, the Cane Ridge Restoration and others began, the Crossroads group made a new push. You might want to check the pedigrees of some of your INFILTRATORS and DIVERTERS. Some of them seem unusually bound to Don Finto and Rubel Shelly who with Flatt and a little help from their friend-Max Lucado-seemed like were trying to organize ALL CHRISTENDOM as the first SECTARIANIZING the church with music.
Re: Give Us [an unauthorized] WORTHLESS LEADER (Kenneth Sublett) April 3 2003, 12:08 PM
April 9 2003, 5:52 PM
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KENNETH STATES: LISTEN TO EITHER LUCIFER THROUGH HIS MUSICIANS OR JESUS CHRIST
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[[[“““The gift of “a” holy spirit is the gift of a CLEAR CONSCIOUSNESS or co-perception with the Word of Christ. This means that a CHRISTIAN is a DISCIPLE and a LISTENER to Jesus Christ the ONLY Teacher Who DIED to give us the FREE Word, which He said "is SPIRIT and LIFE."
As a DISCIPLE, the story of Lucifer rings the BELL after one second in the RING.
“[11] Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.” (KJV: Isaiah 14)
In the SYMBOLISM of the TEMPLE, he would invade THE HOLY PLACE and THE MOST HOLY PLACE to be one of the cherubim again. Taking SINGERS OR MUSICIANS into the "TYPE” of the CHURCH and the "HEAVENLY TABERNACLE" was a MORTAL SIN.
In the NEW TESTAMENT, JESUS demands that ONLY HE sits on the THRONE, and EITHER: (1) WE LISTEN TO LUCIFER THROUGH HIS MUSICIANS, or (2) WE LISTEN TO JESUS CHRIST.””” … Kenneth Sublett]]]
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BUT MR. SUBLETT: FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY AND EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST, GOD DID “GIVE US” APOSTLES, EVANGELISTS AND WORSHIP LEADERS.
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Sorry for misquoting! In what we call the Lord’s prayer in Matthew chapter 6, the portion that states, “Give us this day our daily bread,” reminds me of the topic of this thread, “GIVE US A WORSHIP LEADER.” Of course, that same passage speaks of: our praying to our Father in secret, not using vain repetitions, and not acting as hypocrites in fasting.
Kenneth, I’d go beyond your subject of “Give Us a Worthless Leader” by expanding it a little bit to: “Give Us an Unauthorized [Worthless] Worship Leader.” There’s scriptural proof for this in that what God has prescribed for us is sufficient “FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST.” Here is the passage in its entirety:
“[3] Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [4] There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; [5] One Lord, one faith, one baptism, [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. [ [11] And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; [12] FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY, FOR THE EDIFYING OF THE BODY OF CHRIST: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ.” (KJV: Ephesians 4)
We will leave it to God and the scriptures to judge what worship leaders have accomplished for themselves and how they have burdened and hindered today’s churches, which are experiencing unnecessary conflicts and divisions because of their “ministry efforts.” The information below, gleaned from original sources, should honestly speak of THE WORSHIP LEADER of the Madison Church of Christ. Whether or not this information will trigger arguments for or against this critical issue, let the story begin:
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SOURCE: http://www.acappella.org/main.htm
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[[[“““WELCOME to the online home of Acappella Ministries...
It's our pleasure to have you join us for a while. Acappella Ministries began in the early 1980's as a dream of a young Keith Lancaster. He knew that God had blessed him with a dream to spread the Gospel to the world through unique, a cappella music. He had the music and the Gospel. The hard part was taking it to the world. All he had was a family, a station wagon, some singers, and a lot of prayers. God blessed his vision and efforts.
20 years later, the dream continues, and the world has gotten a lot smaller. Acappella has covered most of it. The Vocal Union is doing their part. When you add in The Firemen, X-Changed, and our new Hispanic group, Voces, the world looks more like a neighborhood. We're doing our best to knock on every door. Let us share with you our vision. Join us as we strive to reach the world for Jesus Christ through the medium of unique a cappella Christian music.
Feel free to browse around through our site. Every aspect of our ministry is addressed within this web site, and many of them will have links to their own homepage, such as Acappella and others. Rather than including a search function, we have included a site map available at the top of every page. Enjoy...”””]]]
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SOURCE: http://www.acappella.org/lancaster.htm
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[[[“““While still heavily involved with leadership in The Acappella Company, Keith also works as a Worship Minister in the Nashville area. You can find him every weekend before more than 3000 people at the Madison Church Of Christ. He is also director of a small singing group at David Lipscomb University."""]]]
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SOURCE: http://www.madisoncofc.org/Ministry%20Team/Worship%20Minister.htm
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[[[“““WORSHIP MINISTER
Keith began his ministry with Madison on November 22, 1998. He claims Paris, TN, as his home town. Keith has a degree in ministry and has been involved in music ministry for the past 23 years. He is the founder and chairman of Acappella Ministries and producer of the singing group ACAPPELLA. While he continues to manage and produce this male quartet, he has been conducting worship seminars for churches around the world. Keith is a song writer as well."""]]]
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I’ve known you at a distance for about 18 months. I’ve spoken with you face to face on a few occasions. I’ve always been cordial and polite to you. I’ve offered to study with you to find the truth in God’s Word, but you have chosen not to do that. Your anger with Keith Lancaster and his role at Madison seems to have consumed you. This last post is evidence of how the devil has distorted your mind and heart. You have chosen the scripture. Now let it speak to your heart. Here it is in its entirety in a basic English translation. Feel free to use any translation including the original Greek if you choose. The message is the same. The words in “UPPERCASE ARE FOR EMPHASIS.”
Eph 4:1 I, a prisoner in the Lord, encourage you to live the kind of life which proves that God has called you.
EPH 4:2 BE HUMBLE AND GENTLE IN EVERY WAY. BE PATIENT WITH EACH OTHER AND LOVINGLY ACCEPT EACH OTHER.
EPH 4:3 THROUGH THE PEACE THAT TIES YOU TOGETHER, DO YOUR BEST TO MAINTAIN THE UNITY THAT THE SPIRIT GIVES.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit. In the same way you were called to share one hope.
Eph 4:5 There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over everything, through everything, and in everything.
Eph 4:7 God's favor has been given to each of us. It was measured out to us by Christ who gave it.
Eph 4:8 That's why the Scriptures say: "When he went to the highest place, he took captive those who had captured us and gave gifts to people."
Eph 4:9 Now what does it mean that he went up except that he also had gone down to the lowest parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 The one who had gone down also went up above all the heavens so that he fills everything.
Eph 4:11 He also gave apostles, prophets, missionaries, as well as pastors and teachers as gifts to his church.
EPH 4:12 THEIR PURPOSE IS TO PREPARE GOD'S PEOPLE, TO SERVE, AND TO BUILD UP THE BODY OF CHRIST.
EPH 4:13 THIS IS TO CONTINUE UNTIL ALL OF US ARE UNITED IN OUR FAITH AND IN OUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT GOD'S SON, UNTIL WE BECOME MATURE, UNTIL WE MEASURE UP TO CHRIST, WHO IS THE STANDARD.
EPH 4:14 THEN WE WILL NO LONGER BE LITTLE CHILDREN, TOSSED AND CARRIED ABOUT BY ALL KINDS OF TEACHINGS THAT CHANGE LIKE THE WIND. WE WILL NO LONGER BE INFLUENCED BY PEOPLE WHO USE CUNNING AND CLEVER STRATEGIES TO LEAD US ASTRAY.
EPH 4:15 INSTEAD, AS WE LOVINGLY SPEAK THE TRUTH, WE WILL GROW UP COMPLETELY IN OUR RELATIONSHIP TO CHRIST, WHO IS THE HEAD.
EPH 4:16 HE MAKES THE WHOLE BODY FIT TOGETHER AND UNITES IT THROUGH THE SUPPORT OF EVERY JOINT. AS EACH AND EVERY PART DOES ITS JOB, HE MAKES THE BODY GROW SO THAT IT BUILDS ITSELF UP IN LOVE.
EPH 4:17 SO I TELL YOU AND ENCOURAGE YOU IN THE LORD'S NAME NOT TO LIVE ANY LONGER LIKE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. THEIR MINDS ARE SET ON WORTHLESS THINGS.
EPH 4:18 THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND BECAUSE THEY ARE IN THE DARK. THEY ARE EXCLUDED FROM THE LIFE THAT GOD APPROVES OF BECAUSE OF THEIR IGNORANCE AND STUBBORNNESS.
Eph 4:19 Since they no longer have any sense of shame, they have become promiscuous. They practice every kind of sexual perversion with a constant desire for more.
Eph 4:20 But that is not what you learned from Christ's teachings.
Eph 4:21 You have certainly heard his message and have been taught his ways. The truth is in Jesus.
Eph 4:22 You were taught to change the way you were living. The person you used to be will ruin you through desires that deceive you.
EPH 4:23 HOWEVER, YOU WERE TAUGHT TO HAVE A NEW ATTITUDE.
RIGHTEOUS AND HOLY. EPH 4:24 YOU WERE ALSO TAUGHT TO BECOME A NEW PERSON CREATED TO BE LIKE GOD, TRULY
EPH 4:25 SO THEN, GET RID OF LIES. SPEAK THE TRUTH TO EACH OTHER, BECAUSE WE ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE SAME BODY.
EPH 4:26 BE ANGRY WITHOUT SINNING. DON'T GO TO BED ANGRY.
EPH 4:27 DON'T GIVE THE DEVIL ANY OPPORTUNITY TO WORK.
Eph 4:28 Thieves must quit stealing and, instead, they must work hard. They should do something good with their hands so that they'll have something to share with those in need.
EPH 4:29 DON'T SAY ANYTHING THAT WOULD HURT ANOTHER PERSON. INSTEAD, SPEAK ONLY WHAT IS GOOD SO THAT YOU CAN GIVE HELP WHEREVER IT IS NEEDED. THAT WAY, WHAT YOU SAY WILL HELP THOSE WHO HEAR YOU.
EPH 4:30 DON'T GIVE GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT ANY REASON TO BE UPSET WITH YOU. HE HAS PUT HIS SEAL ON YOU FOR THE DAY YOU WILL BE SET FREE FROM THE WORLD OF SIN.
EPH 4:31 GET RID OF YOUR BITTERNESS, HOT TEMPERS, ANGER, LOUD QUARRELING, CURSING, AND HATRED.
EPH 4:32 BE KIND TO EACH OTHER, SYMPATHETIC, FORGIVING EACH OTHER AS GOD HAS FORGIVEN YOU THROUGH CHRIST.
Donnie, I pray that God will deliver you from your torment. I pray that He will open your eyes and reveal to you how you can serve Him and Him only. I pray that He will bless you richly with opportunities to serve Him and wisdom to discern what opportunity truly looks like. I pray that you will come to Him daily as an empty vessel for His use. I pray that you will come with no preconceived ideas of what God wants from you today. Just be available to serve Him with every fiber of your being.
Re: His Word will set you free (Chuck Sonn) April 10 2003, 10:57 AM
April 10 2003, 12:58 PM
Chuck,
With little amount of time that I have, let me respond to your defense of this contemporary CONCEPT of “WORSHIP LEADER,” which in itself is a usurpation of the authority of Christ. Hopefully, I will have more time to continue this discourse soon. Above all, let me assure you that I have the full confidence in what the Holy Scripture teaches, and, yes, as a soldier of Christ, I detest it when known and prominent teachers and leaders compromise and twist the truth to further their agenda and popularity and pride and business endeavors. I have nothing against Keith Lancaster as a human being. In fact, I “voted” for him a million times when a “song leader” was about to be selected at the time. There was not the slightest hint then as to which direction he was taking the Madison body. Just to make the story short, you know what have been the developments in recent months.
You, Chuck, and others are in this dream world and convinced that the eventual upheaval at Madison did not occur as a result of the gradual and subtle culture-driven church growth scheme endorsed and implemented by the church’s leadership. You need to stop denying the FACT that 90% of church conflicts evolves and is due to worship issues. And you and Keith Lancaster and the WORSHIP committee of Keith and [ONLY ONE OF several elders] Buck Dozier … are not willing to give it a try resorting to the WORKABLE worship format of the past -– NO WORSHIP LEADER, NO MUSICIANS (KEITH’S PRAISE TEAM OR CHOIR) -– just plain congregational singing at its best efforts.
To start with, let me just state these few statements as they relate to the entire fourth chapter of Ephesians, which I strongly believe in, but which Keith Lancaster needs to look at more deeply:
--- HUMILITY and LOVINGLY ACCEPTING EACH OTHER. As much as your WORSHIP LEADER is “sincerely” stating, “give all the praise to God and not to me,” he continues to be full of pride and ego as a masterful musician of musicians. It’s time he accepts and admits the fact that the introduction of this “contemporary worship format” as an alternative has driven away many of his brethren in Christ. Does he really believe this “lovingly accepting each other” bit, or is he more concerned about continuing to advertise his musical talent?
--- MAINTAINING THE UNITY THAT THE SPIRIT GIVES. There may be UNION in having separate and different worship formats –- “TRADITIONAL” and “CONTEMPORARY” … but there is definitely not “UNITY OF THE SPIRIT IN THE BOND OF PEACE.” There is no UNITY in DIVERSITY!!!
--- GAVE US “WORSHIP LEADERS.” Nowhere to be found! “And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors [elders] and teachers. (Ephesians 4:11, KJV) Jesus, the mediator and High Priest, is the ONLY worship leader and the only one to “CALL us to worship.” Jesus said so, in our worship of the Father in heaven, in John 4:21, 23-24: “Jesus saith … But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
--- MEASURE UP TO CHRIST, WHO IS THE STANDARD. Indeed! Indeed! Keith’s and the PRAISE TEAM’s performances are NOT THE STANDARD.
--- “TOSSED AND CARRIED ABOUT BY ALL KINDS OF TEACHINGS THAT CHANGE LIKE THE WIND [definitely like 'navigating the winds of CHANGE']. WE WILL NO LONGER BE INFLUENCED BY PEOPLE [church leaders who have succumbed] WHO USE CUNNING AND CLEVER STRATEGIES TO LEAD US ASTRAY." Self-explanatory, isn’t it?
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TO BE CONTINUED …
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Donnie,
You wrote:
"And you and Keith Lancaster and the WORSHIP committee of Keith and [ONLY ONE OF several elders] Buck Dozier … are not willing to give it a try resorting to the WORKABLE worship format of the past -– NO WORSHIP LEADER, NO MUSICIANS (KEITH’S PRAISE TEAM OR CHOIR) -– just plain congregational singing at its best efforts."
It is my opinion, if you will attend and report on the 8am service, you will have to retract this statement.
It is also my belief, you have NEVER discussed these issues with Buck or Keith.
RO 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
RO 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.
RO 14:9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat.
1CO 6:1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother goes to law against another--and this in front of unbelievers!
COL 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
JAS 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you--who are you to judge your neighbor?
9 Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!
15 to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him." 16 These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.
Donnie, is there any slight possibility that any of this applies to you?
Re: What about the early service? (Eddie) April 10 2003, 2:09 PM
April 10 2003, 3:38 PM
Eddie:
So, what about the early service? The last time I attended the 8 a.m. service, your WORSHIP LEADER was there, just as busy displaying MUSICAL WORSHIP talent to perfection. While his musicians weren’t sitting in front, they were interspersed in the crowd to give the appearance of LESS performance. (By the way, the attendance on March 30th was 520. This past Sunday, April 6th, the attendance was 467. Let’s just say that it was because of the time change -- some of the senior saints at the early assembly perhaps had a memory lapse or couldn’t “get up” early. In reality, it looks like some members are still being driven away.)
I’m sorry to disappoint you, Eddie, that regardless of circumstances, the truth still rises to the top. I doubt seriously that I need to retract my statement. Truths are not retractable. The verses you quoted should be familiar to and practiced by all Christians, including elders and even non-ordained, unauthorized “WORSHIP LEADERS.” In regard to discussing the issues on worship, the proper thing to do is for ALL ELDERS (NOT JUST ONE BUCK) to be involved in this CORE program. Then, the outcome or process is then implemented.
You certainly can help with this matter: why don’t you make a special effort to bring up all the verses that you just quoted to the entire leadership? It badly needs all these admonitions before some more members decide to leave the fellowship!
Re: Re: What about the early service? (Donnie) April 11, 2003
April 11 2003, 10:46 AM
Donnie,
Why don't you tell all of us when you last attended early service? My sources say you NEVER have. You are doing better about being on time for the late service.
Be glad to meet you at the church house this Sunday at 7:30 am. What say you?
I was just being courteous in letting you finish. I didn't want to respond until you had your chance to complete your thoughts.
There is no room for personal attacks in the body of Christ...for any reason.
The message af salvation is timeless. The methods of delivery will change to reach the masses as necessary. They have continued to change for millenia. The elders have made their decision and will live by it as they feel best serves our community and members. Any that don't agree can leave. As you have mentioned repeatedly, many have. Allow me to ask you one question which should provide all the answers that I need.
If the purpose of our assembly on the first day of the week is to worship our Creator and Savior in spirit and in truth, can you honestly say that your only focus is to truly worship Him that way? I can't comprehend one that has as much ill feeling toward people and practice being able to set that aside especially since those people and practices are part of what you consider worship.
Chucky, Donnie just told you that SOMEONE at A CAPPELLA is apparently LYING about the membership to BOOTSTRAP his own "ministry" to teach others how to destroy a church. Why not address A Cappella (the Pope's boys) and ask them to cease and desist. They PROSPER only when they can deny their GROWTH RATE.
If some elder person tells the paper that you have a membership of 5,000 and lost only 50 why does that make Donnie "BESIDE HIMSELF?"
If the TEAM began in 1998 with 3000 and others count about half that many then is THAT speaking the truth in love?
You quote all of those passages which SHOULD be quoted to YOU GUYS who VIOLATED EVERY ONE OF THEM. Your songs STILL don't "speak the truth" in any sense.
God ordained LEADERS--not to sing and clap and make love to God--to prepare people for MINISTRY.
UNDER LYNN ANDERSON AND SHELLY YOU LEARN HOW TO "BLOW THE WINDS OF CHANGE" TO CONVERT THE CHURCH INTO A THEATER FOR UNHOLY ENTERTAINMENT. HOWEVER, IN CONTEXT,PAUL SAID:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the SLIGHT of men, and CUNNING CRAFTINESS whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Don't tell the world that they have to preach in love to those who LIE IN WAIT TO DECEIVE. Jesus gave us permission to RESIST thieves.
JESUS CALLED THEM THE SEED OF VIPERS, CHILDRIN OF THEIR FATHER THE DEVIL. Chucky says "Don't rock da boat." Now, while you FIGHT OFF the cunning craftsmen with one hand DON'T FORGET to:
Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the HEAD, even Christ:
Paul is NOT speaking to those CUNNING serpent people but to the ASSEMBLY. He says here exactly what he will say in the NEXT chapter. Paul said that BEFORE they were INVOLVED IN what DONNIE is defining:
4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful LUSTS;
4:23 And be RENEWED in the SPIRIT of your MIND;
WHY? Why that is the Most Holy Place where we meet God ONE AT A TIME. You cannot do that by RENEWING your CLAQUE TEAM about when and how to BODY DRUM. You learn that from VOODOO.
4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true HOLINESS.
JESUS SAID THAT THE CLERGY WERE LIARS AND SONS OF THE DEVIL. WHY? WHY BECAUSE "They Speak ON THEIR OWN." That is, they just MAKE UP songs and sermons. But, Paul said:
4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak EVERY man TRUTH with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
THAT ELEMINATES SELF-SPEAK as LYING AND IT MAKES impossible upbuilding. EDIFICATION DEPEND ON "EVERY MAN WITH HIS NEIGHBORS." OTHERWISE YOU HAVE "RESPECT OF PERSONS" AND WORSHIP "TALENT."
WHY IS DRUNK ON IGNORANCE BETTER THAN DRUNK ON WINE?
5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
It is SPIRIT speaking ONLY if it is the WORDS OF CHRIST which are "spirit and life." You guys are SPEAKING the spirit of the PERFORMING ARTS and not of Christ.
5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
IF YOU CAN READ THEN "MAKING MELODY IN THE HEART" cannot mean MAKE HARMONY IN YOUR NERVE ENDINGS.
Jesus said that worship is COUNTED only if it is IN SPIRIT. This is THE PLACE of the human mind and NO SINGER OF LOVE SONGS CAN GO THERE.
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 Cor 3:17
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 2 Co.3:18
But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully;
----but, by manifestation of the TRUTH, commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of God. 2 Cor 4:2
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And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Eph 6:17
Praying ALWAYS with all prayer and supplication IN the SPIRIT, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Eph 6:18
For we are the circumcision, which
---worship God IN the SPIRIT
---and rejoice in Christ Jesus,
-----and have no confidence IN the FLESH. Philippians 3:3
SPIRIT IS CONTRASTED WITH FLESH. "Holy rolling" is NOT contrasted with the FLESH.
Judaism (musical sacrificers), Tithing etc. is trying to worship IN THE FLESH.
God ONLY ACCEPTS worship IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT but your TEAMSTERS are trying to CUNNINGLY STIR UP THE FLESH.
You CANNOT worship in THE SPIRIT by stroking your body.
DONNIE is speaking the truth in LOVE. Why else would he fool with a totally PERVERTED system of false worship?
You guys HAVE TO HATE the widows to run them off and steal their church houses. You HAVE to hate people to make worship into a MASSAGE PARLOR used to FIRE UP the lust of the flesh ABSOLUTELY PROVEN by the singy clapping and the ABSOLUTE inability to see who DELIBERATELY SOWED DISCORD. Doubt that? Don't. The Andersonian or Hegeling Dialectic CONFESSES to pushing the church to the BRINK in order to make it change.
And what is the PRODUCT of this NEOISM: Why, little children and women RULE OVER YOU and make you sing and clap.
Don't bite, Donnie, you are doing just what JESUS did and they LOVED Him to Death. And you are doing just what Paul did and they CALLED HIM MAD.
Ken why don't you just give it another try on the hamster wheel as you keep spinning and turning in all sorts of directions? FYI Ken and the rest of you who view this site. In reference to the acappella website the information regarding the Madison Church of Christ and its membership hasn't been updated in years. If you are so concerned or that technical about numbers call the church office and find out for yourself.
Re: The Hamster Wheel (John Paul George Jr) April 10 2003, 1:31 PM
April 10 2003, 4:13 PM
John Paul:
Well, two things: (1) We’re just curious about how many more senior saints are being driven away from the fellowship; (2) We’re just curious as to the effectiveness of the Community Church crusade in bringing precious souls to Christ from outside the “church” box, using its culture-driven for church growth scheme.
I have told you over and over and you haven't refuted it that:
Music in a "worship" sense had two Biblical purposes (don't tell me about David strumming to his sheep):
First: The MUSICAL WARRIOR LEVITES were under the King and Commanders of the army and NEVER under the priests were OUTSIDE the Holy Place as a type of the church.
Their SERVICE was "hard bondage" from a word with the same meaning as Abaddon or Apollyon. Because God had TURNED THEM OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST as a result of the PERVERTED musicl idolatry at Mount Sinai and later demanding a human king so that they could worship like the nations, their service was quite identical to that of Canaan or Babylon.
That MUSICAL NOISE was exorcism of the bad demons and trying to call the GOOD GODS to the feast. Catholics therefore organized with both Precentors and EXORCISTS.
They were paying for their own sins and MOCKING prophetically Lord Jesus Christ. The Musical Levites again were prophesied to MOCK Jesus. They PIPED trying to get Him into the homosexual Dionysus song and dance.
The only MUSICIANS who entered into the Holy Places even in the vilest paganism was in Jerusalem where Zeus and Dionysus were "worshiped" in the Gymnasiums where they had to SET GUARDS to stiffle the homosexuality. They actually performed sexuality and homosexuality in temples dedicated to Zeus or Dionysus. That PLAGUE made Jerusalem so vile that Jesus spoke in parables to HIDE the gospel from them.
During many periods the Jews tolerated SINGERS which name roots to prostitutes and instrumentalists (normally a female domain) which roots to SODOMITES around the Temple.
SECOND: I told you that in pagan religions THERE IS NO OTHER TRADITON but that singers and musicians were of the LOWER CLASSES who could be abused as the final ACT OF WORSHIP (Re Wimber, Vineyard) just before paying your bill (something like tithing.)
MODERN SCHOLARS still agree with the documents of the Ancient Near East, the Biblical examples of "music," the church Fathers: THERE IS NO OTHER TRADITION which does not give credit to SATAN (Lucifer) for choirs and instrumentalists which ALWAYS included the qedeshot or "holy prostitutes."
Nimrod in Babylon, contemporary musicians, scientists and musicologists RECOGNIZE that "music" produces the impulses of FIGHT, FLIGHT OR SEXUALITY. Music injects endorphins or natural morphine. Once you are addicted, the HIGH which seems natural to you seems UNNATURAL to Donnie and the chased-away half of your crowd.
I watched a Mormon girl who had never tasted Caffein just about go into insanity when someone gave her just one APC.
THERE IS NO OTHER EVIDENCE WHICH YOU CAN USE TO DEFEND BRINGING PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS AND ACTORS TO "STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE" PRETENDING TO BE MEDIATORS OR IN RUBEL SHELLY'S BORROWED WORDS: "BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD."
I HEAR THE CLAPPY SONGS AS EXPLICITELY SEXUAL IN CONTENT.
THE CLAPPING AND BODY WORSHIP MAKES THE DIAGNOSIS CERTAIN TO ME, TO DONNIE AND I SUSPECT ABOUT HALF OF YOUR CONGREGATION YOU HAVE DISCORDED AND SCATTERED.
History knows it in pagan religions as SEXPERIENCE and not worship which happens ONLY in your HUMAN SPIRIT as the ONLY place God meets you. Leviticla musicians who attempted to go with the priests into the Holy Place as type of the church of Christ, or into the Most Holy Place a the PLACE where God meets a priest ONE AT A TIME would have been executed.
The MOTHER, Carol Wimber as the mother of the NEW STYLE HYMNALS insists that the next to last ACT OF WORSHIP is a music-induced CLIMACTIC expreience with God. The last ACT is giving of substance-tithing.
Now, if you cannot find any Biblically or historical evidence to refute 100% of the evidence, I claim that you have USED the PERSONA of Musical Performers and that PERSONA is universally that of sexuality.
Ken,
Apparently you did not understand the question. You ramble on about things that simply don't apply. We don't have kings. We are not in hard bondage. We are not at Mt. Sinai. We ain't called the exorcist. We don't mock or pipe. There are no guards or plagues. No sodomites, no lower classes. We ain't in Babylon with Nimrod. We did not run anyone off, they left of their own will. I haven't seen an APC in 30 years, and not any here. AND, who in the world is Carol Wimber?
So, I fail to see where you are going with this madness.
I fail to understand why I even bother to answer you.
This conversation is over, unless you wish to meet with Donnie and I Sunday, at the church house, 7:30 am.
I bet I'm the only one that shows up.
THERE IS NO OTHER EVIDENCE WHICH YOU CAN USE TO DEFEND BRINGING PROFESSIONAL MUSICIANS AND ACTORS TO "STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE" PRETENDING TO BE MEDIATORS OR IN RUBEL SHELLY'S BORROWED WORDS: "TO BRING YOU INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD."
All of the ANTI-ISM such as Grace Centered and all of your THOUGHT LEADERS cannot see any condemnation of music in the Bible. The fact is THEY CANNOT SEE.
100% of the historical and Biblical evidence associates "religious" PRAISE SINGING and "music" to Satan, animal sacrifice EXORCISM, sexuality and perverted sexuality.
Jesus threw out, more or less violently like DUNG, the musical team and repudiated all of the Jewish additions of pagan music [I know that you haven't read that]. Therefore JESUS CHRIST is NOT your PATTERN.
The New Testament church is not your pattern.
The church historical theologians and historians are not your pattern.
The view of denominational founders is not your pattern.
Your thought leaders just lie about it!
WHAT IS YOUR PATTERN? The only "Lord" you imitate is the UNIVERSALLY polluted view of music in all paganism.
Therefore, what you are AFFLICTING the spiritual minds with is NOT REMOTELY CONNECTED TO CHRISTIANITY. In fact MELODY or PSALLO means to "grind the enemy into a fine powder."
The host of American religion PATTERNED after Hollywood, Dollywood and TBN is virtually going insane remodelling and BUYING the old Greek theater "mechanae" to WOW the crowd. Since the CALLED OUT ASSEMBLY is a tiny minority DON'T let popularity and even possible "growth"be the OBJECT of your faith. It is called a SCAM.
I guess most of you have figured out Ken and Donnie DID NOT show up this morning. You notice in the post below, Ken evades the invitation with more of his raves and rants about nothing. Donnie simply did not answer. In my mind this shows them for what they are. They will not face anyone. They only want to hide behind their keyboard and stir up as much trouble as they can. I hope I'm writing this for their eyes only, as it is my belief there are not many people that visit here for serious study. On this note, I should listen to my own advice, and stop trying to change their minds. It ain't going to happen. Ken is a lost cause. I have had hope for Donnie in the past.
Chuck, Evan, Dal, John, Mr. B, Roger, We have better things to do!
Watching the male warriors of our nation in action I cannot express to you the pride I feel. Why did they do it? I believe that there is a God- Given impulse which makes people 'plagued' with righteousness and social justice willing to give up their lives to keep the 150 pound bully from punching a little girl or an old woman in the nose and snatch their purse.
I think God that He gave me that "Y" to take in my life in Korea. So, I have felt that primal instinct which Christ did not remove. Furthermore, He gave true believer's the instinct of the Spiritual Warrior with both offensive and defensive weapons.
In my 72 plus years I have felt all of the human feelings known to mankind--except one. I was born in a sharecroppers cabin on my Grandfather's farm and then lived in two slave cabins. My mom knew very well how to turn feed bags into most clothing. In her later years they had a fair house to live in and all of their need met.
Then, I think about a small band of vandals stealing in and eating all of her food and turning her out of her house at aged 95. Oh, they tried: they INFILTRATED her house and DIVERTED her mind but I got there before they could "buy" her furniture from several generations past. My Jesus didn't impulse me to turn my mother's other cheek any more than He did when He was smacked.
That final emotion of UTTER SHAME was saved by God to let me see spewing from people who wear the name of CHRIST to know why He is "calling" out a body of people which YOU guys cannot call with carnal strokings.
The only thing which has made me feel SHAME to the point of TEARS has been the lying about the Bible, about Christ, about the church and the horrific oppression heaped on the heads of old people including widows being chased out of their church by a band of religionists who HAVE no shame--for now.
I listen to this fairly often to TEST my devotion to anything other than the next DRUG HIGH from the spiritual "crack" dealers.
Re: To All Readers (Eddie Williams) April 13 2003, 3:51 PM
April 14 2003, 5:13 PM
Eddie:
I realize you were extremely disappointed that nobody came to your self-appointed invitation. You should have already learned your lesson by then that extending an invitation like that would be futile. It’s unfortunate that a more effective way for some really SERIOUS study, covering more ground and more people and making use of time efficiently –- such as serious study on this site -- has never been your consideration. Meanwhile, as I have told John Paul George, I find that hiding behind my PC works for me. Regardless of how I hide, I can’t hide the truth. Somehow, the truth surfaces and I realize that the truth irritates and frustrates you to no end. And the truth is that I am not stirring trouble. I am simply exposing all the troubles stirred by your own friends and proponents of the Movements you’ve been participating in. Sorry!
Hey eddie
what about our meeting. a year ago you said you could get a meeting with the elders at MAD MADISON, but I guess it is business as usually: Say one thing and mean another. Smoke screen, duck and run. Pick on the weak and beat the sheep. Money talks and everythings else walks. I have given up on the occult at MAD MADISON, it is up to God now.
Eph 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Simple! It’s the same way you would define “massage parlor.” Simply that! As to what Ken has NOT SEEN, that’s really not the issue. It’s all a matter of faith. “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of THINGS NOT SEEN. By faith Noah, being warned of God of THINGS NOT SEEN as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.” (Hebrews 11:1,7)
Sorry, Eddie. Ken walks by faith, and not by sight. “For we walk by faith, not by sight.” (II Corinthians 5:7)
is a song which has become the MANTRA of those trying to SHINE THEIR OWN LIGHT as the "idolatry of talent."
For instance, the COMMERCIAL "PRAYER, CARE, SHARE INSTRUCTION WITH MARY MARR" notes that: "LIGHTHOUSES IN HARMONY facilitates current and potential Lighthouse ARTISTS, musicians and WORSHIP LEADERS to shine the Light of Jesus Christ through CONCERTS, church services and CITYWIDE gatherings. [P.S. and book shows and sell CDs.]
THE TRUTH PART IS THAT MUSIC FACILITATES THE MUSICIANS AND NOT CHRIST. There is no better REALITY CHECK than the Lucifer character who began BLEEDING OFF worship from God even in Heaven rising again in his AGENTS like Judas whose JUDAS BAG carried mouthpieces of WIND INSTRUMENTS.
The Catholic Campus Ministry uses this SHINING theme and their Logo is a RISING SUN. Remember our notes from Shelly about BAPTIZING SANTA and Lucado's COSMIC CHRISTMAS looking like SUN WORSHIP and Shelly's thinking of the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god? Well, under various slick titles his number is 666. And remember CHRIST-MASS and ISHTAR SERVICES?
Even in heaven there were TWO sources of light. God IS LIGHT but Lucifer (Latin) tried to be a LIGHT "BULB" to steal the worship from God. He was cast out and showed up in the garden of Eden as a Musical Enchanter replacing the LIGHT of God's presence. He embodied percussion, wind and string instruments.
The superiority of the Jews was in their mind and not in God's. Paul wrote about those who thought they could GO LIGHT THE WORLD. Instead they made CONVERTS worse than themselves.
--"And art confident that thou THYSELF art a guide of the blind, a LIGHT of them which are in DARKNESS, Rom 2: 19
----"An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the FORM of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Rom 2: 20
Paul told them in 2 Cor. 3 that they were BLIND AND DEAF because they had not recognized that Spirit of Christ was the Spirit of their dispensation. Paul warned those who would GO LIGHT THE WORLD with their own COMMERCIAL MUSICAL TALENT:
--"THEREFORE, seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 Cor 4:1
----"But have renounced the hidden things of DISHONESTY, not walking in CRAFTINESS, nor handling the word of God DECEITFULLY; but, by manifestation of the TRUTH, commending ourselves to every mans conscience in the sight of God. 2 Cor 4:2
When Jesus comes the BABYLON PROSTITUTE will repeat the FALL of Lucifer as the king of Tyre and of Babylon: the harp- playing prostitutes:
----"Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and MUSICIANS, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no CRAFTSMAN, of whatsoever CRAFT... AND NOT EVEN THE LIGHT OF A CANDLE
--"But if our gospel be HID, it is hid to them that are LOST: 2 Cor 4:3
----"In whom the god of this world hath BLINDED the minds of them which believe not, lest the LIGHT of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should SHINE unto them. 2 Cor 4:4
----"For we preach NOT OURSELVES, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your SERVANTS for Jesus sake. 2 Cor 4:5
----"For God, who commanded the LIGHT to shine out of darkness, hath SHINED in our HEARTS, to give the LIGHT of the KNOWLEDGE of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6
----"But we have this treasure in EARTHEN vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 2 Cor 4:7
Ostrakinos is earthern-ware and indeed we have PROOF of the Word of God because men wrote on fragments of clay jars and hid documents in clay jars TO BE PRESERVED.
The false LIGHTHOUSE IS LUCIFER who is always in oppo