All of yall concerned members are all worked up about something God dosen't care about. He doesn't care if you have praise teams,clap,raisehands or anything you are worried about.so calm down. It's O.k. if you prefer Not to have those things in your worship.
so please don't condemn.

I am an madison member and i LOVE IT. Its very uplifting.we had over 100 baptisms last year!HALLELUJAH!!!

Bob:

How exciting! It appears that you have a long, long, long way to go in order to match or catch up to your model church, the Saddleback Community Church, with Rick Warren as its SENIOR PASTOR. By the way, how many of these baptisms resulted from the implementation and application of the Saddleback model for church growth? I mean, not counting those with an already Christian upbringing. But I mean … CONVERSIONS from non-Christian status of those in the Madison or nearby community? Have you taken into consideration the folks that LEFT Madison last year also? Just curious … did you keep track of the number of “hallelujahs” you expressed last year?

Donnie

Bob:

Oh! So, you’re one of those very FEW but very LOUD handclappers that I hear. No wonder I, as well as many others, am more annoyed than ever! Just be sure your handclapping is in sync with Keith’s MUSICAL SINGERS. OK? Also, I would ask you to be a little more considerate of others by not making clapping a deafening noise, you know, just like hearing hundreds of cell phones all ringing at the same time. Before long, God might have to order a set of hearing aids from the [ironically] Acappella music business. How possible is it that God might sue the Contemporary Christian Music industry for damaged hearing? [Just a reminder … the clappers expect God to hear like humans do. The higher the “Jezebels,” the better! Plus, the Praise Team with their microphones louder should also help a great deal!]

Donnie

Good idea, Donnie. Clapper doesn't know that the CLAP in the Old testament means to BLOW A TRUMPET to make the earth ring or to VOMIT or to DRIVE A TENT PEG into a sleeping man's head.

Clapping was intended to INSULT the looser. The TEAM brought their own CLAQUE or "in sync clappers" to affirm the LEADER. Kinda like LUST for LOOSING LEADER.

Therefore, I would call in OSHA and do some testing. I can tell you that what they call HARMONIC SINGING is known by musicologists to HURT REAL BAD. That is what massages the endorphins or morphine MAILINE. Of course, you feel just awful (like vomiting) when the HIGH runs out.

If I had space I would tell you stories about how a SUITER lost a good bride when he did what YOU guys do in public as EFFEMINATE or worse:

---"He is CLAPPING his hands like a BOOR, and you will say that it is as though Paris were calling Penthesileia to him by the noise of his hands. Penthesileia too is there, looking at Paris, but by the toss of her head she seems to show her DISDAIN and CONTEMPT.

---"Now it's only fair that with your deserving hands you should give us deserved applause. He who does so, may he always keep his mistress without the knowledge of his wife. But he who doesn't with his hands clap as loud as he can, in place of a mistress, may a he-goat, soused in bilge-water, be palmed off upon him."

---"All who pass your way clap their hands at you; they scoff and shake their heads at the Daughter of Jerusalem (Sodom Rev 11:8):

---"therefore I am going to give you to the people of the East as a possession. They will set up their camps and pitch their tents among you; they will eat your fruit and drink your milk. Ezek 25:4

---"I will turn Rabbah into a pasture for camels and Ammon into a resting place for sheep. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezek 25:5

---"For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because you have CLAPPED your hands and stamped your feet, rejoicing with all the malice of your heart against the land of Israel, Ezek 25:6

AND OF JERUSALEM:

---"All that pass by CLAP their hands at thee; they HISS and WAG their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? Lam.2:15

---"And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called SODOM and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Re.11:8

So will the MUSICIANS and INSTRUMENTALISTS in Revelation 18.

My daughters would have GAGGED and rolled their eyes.

All of these people gag or leave because they think that a GAY BAR has moved in: Inanna the holy whore had her HOLY TAVERN.

Ken Sublett

I was so excited to see a site that openly discusses issues in the church. I joyously scrolled down most of the reponses on this WHOLE site. With each response came more and more sadness. I had to stop. My heart cannot take any more!
Who are we? We sound like everyone else. I am beginning to think we are. We are not a city that sits on a hill, we are not a chosen people, we are not any different from the world. It is easy to tell if someone has the love of Christ or not (out of the mouth the heart speaks). When we say hurtful, insensitive, rude, crass, ridiculing things and pass them off as "contending for the faith" we sin.
GOD IS NOT MOCKED!!!. You will give an account for every idle word. I came to this site for insight yet you have subverted this hearer. I didn't realize how divided we were. Perhaps the web in not the place for Christians and so-called Christians to be arguing before the world. We are literally being "read of men".
Satan is very pleased with the exchange occurring here. Who knows, maybe future Christians will stumble across this site and be converted to something else. People's souls are at stake here! Do you take salvation that lightly?!!
May God have mercy on those of you who have made unloving comments on this site. We CAN speak the truth or even our opinion without becoming ungodly. Repent and guard your tongues!
A true beliver,
Tamara

I am one of those "men" just scrolling this site, that you speak of. (sigh!) I regret the words that supposed Christians have to say to and for one another. I hear scripture say that if we continue to devour each other we will be consumed. For as long as i have been a member of the Lord's church (and longer) God's people have spent all of their efforts beckering over small matters and completely missing the more weighter matters of Godliness. We love to eat and devoir each other becuz, we have become impotent as a body and incapable of being Salt and Light. We forget that the persons whom the Lord tells to depart from him are people who call him Lord, Lord and who went abou "doing..." in his name. Well, I give God all high praise that he hasn't left the future to the church at large in our feable hands. I pray for my brethern becuase, we have simply grown cowardess of preaching the Gospel (which implies evangelism) and have relegated the work of the church to mere argueing about who should sit at the Masters right and left hand when he comes in his glory. My loyalty is with the Lord ... let all men therefore be liers. We indeed should be ashamed of ourselves. Christ did not condesend and relenguish His divine glory, to impact and touch all mankind, suffer in our stead, experience death and overcome to assume the power and authority over all things, so we can fuss and becker over "important business". I wish we all just get it over with and tell the truth to one another. We don't like each other, we don't love one another, and we don't have any desire whatsoever to accept each other... Let's at least do that.

I appluad your words and pray that the lord be merciful on all of us.

Despite what you think of Madison, you should never take baptisms lightly. It DOES NOT MATTER where they came from, they are all important to God, and should be to you too. Have you so lost sight of the ultimate goal that you would stoop to criticizing a baptism count??? Something to think about.

Mr. B

Mr. Bo:


You missed it again. This website is full of debates and issues regarding the Saddleback “church growth” scheme. All I was asking about was a number of instances (counts) of baptisms resulting from such a growth scheme. Bo, specifically the number of conversions from the COMMUNITY outside of Christian family upbringing!!! That would be the TRUE TEST of the way the highly advertised Saddleback scheme works. Get it now? “Something” for YOU “to think about.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Donnie

I too am a member of the Church of Christ. I happened upon this website and am disgusted. As a member for 28 years, I am truly sick at my stomach with the immaturity shown on this site - from both sides.

Fact: If what has been said about the new worship style at Madison is true, then the devil has taken over an entire congregation. It doesn't take sarcasm, rude comments, and childish behavior to determine that. The actions of the Church members validate that they have failed to remember that the laws were written by God and not man.

Fact: Some of you who started this site with the right heart have allowed the devil in, too. Just read your own words and you can see that he has not only taken the light from the Church, but he has caused your anger to take you from the true path. I don't know who Ken is, but I must state that he should not be allowed on any site.

There is only one question the members of Madison should ask themselves. If they can answer that question, then they will realize how far off the path they have gone.

Do you believe that God is all-knowing, all-powerfull, all-encompasing?

If you have answered yes, then your argument 'for' the new worship is invalid. How can I make such a judgemental comment? Easy. First of all, it is no more judgemental than your arguments for the new style. Second of all, then Paul was judgemental also. Why else did he discuss the Churches that had lost the light? Why did they lose the light? And what did it mean to lose the light?

He wrote those letters to the Churches to warn them of the dangers within their own Church. Sound familiar? He warned them of the divisions over trying to copy other faiths. Hmm....could that relate to Madison's need to follow the example of Saddleback and Community Church? He reminded them of the LAW!!!! He reminded them that God was in charge and that man did not create the LAW. Most importantly, Paul reminded them that the Church is simplistic and meant to be serious and reverant. I'm trying to picture Jesus or Paul clapping with glee and wanting to be in a praise group...Not getting that picture.

Furthermore, I am trying to picture Paul's reaction to women preachers, song leaders, speaking during worship, etc. I too have studied the scriptures and taken into account the original language. No - it does NOT state that women were deacons. It stated they were servants. Hmm...seems we made a wee bit of a stretch to get there. Along the way, we kind of forgot all the scriptures against woman speaking and leading. Amazing, our ability to twist things. By the way, I am a very outspoken woman (think you figured this out by now)and I am very aware of why women have pushed on this subject. However, as outspoken as I am, I have READ the Bible and will not do MY will but Gods. Got to give up a lot to enter that narrow gate.

Please, do not give me any of the patented cliches regarding praise teams, women speaking, etc...I have heard these arguments from the best of your group and I have yet to hear a valid or scriptural reason. The changes in the Church are for one reason only - to make people "feel" better, to be entertained, to grow the Church (money), to follow the path of man.

How can I state this? Common sense and the ability to step back and look at the entire picture - short term and long term. Most importantly, I read the Bible with an open WILL/mind. I pray that God will lead me to read it as he intended and not with the need to find approval for the wants and needs of my flesh. It's hard to be the Christian that Jesus decreed. And yes, even I wish some things were different. But they aren't. Again, that gate is narrow and few there are that will enter.

Most importantly is the fact that we seem to think we are smarter than God, Jesus, Paul, John, etc... Madison is a fine example of those who have decided their way is better than God's way. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THERE ANY AUTHORITY FOR THE CHANGES. I'm not talking "tradition" vs. "liberalism", I'm talking about the need to divide a church by adding things that ALL of us know will split up the church. Is this right? Is your need for change so great that it is worth the division? Are you sure you are on the right track? Can you honestly, deep down honestly, state that the Bible backs up these changes? No, you can't. I've read it and it isn't there.

I am sure that all those change agents at Madison feel they are truly doing God's work. I belive that they truly think they love Jesus and God. I also believe that they are misguided. When we cause division through needless changes, ignore the biblical scriptures and add entertainment value to the Church, we have ALL lost. Only one person has won...and I'm sure he's laughing at all of us.

I say all this with a broken heart for all of us. You see, it's starting to happen here, too. We are just beginning but the road is clear. As it is my age group that created this monster, I believe it is up to my age group to bring back the simple, common sense truth of the Word.

And by the way, thank you for calling those of us who stick to the simple ways "legalistic". It lets me know I am following the law and not you. I have enough trouble staying on the path, I don't need change agents/devil trying to take over the Church, too.

We accept your rebuke, and Pray that we do better.

Thank You

Dear "Broken Hearted":

You have written one of the most elegant, mature, and thoughtfully prepared messages about changes in the modern Church that I have seen in a long time. The anger and concern is clear in your message, yet you refrain from petty name-calling and other demeaning tactics. So many others who "contribute" to this site could learn well from your example. However, your epistle would carry more weight if you identified yourself. Stand up and be counted (and battle the slings and arrows from your opponents).

I agree with your view that this site can be quite disgusting, especially the forums, with all of the bantering, back-biting, and ill will that's generated. It seems like the forums now dominate this site. Although I occasionally still submit messages, I rarely read any of the forums anymore. I especially avoid reading certain contributors' messages because of their invariably excessive length and complete lack of coherence or train of thought. No matter how good their intentions are, contributors like those really turn readers away and destroy the reputation of this web site.

Concerned Members was conceived to warn people at large about the dangers and pitfalls of the Community Church Movement/Church Growth Movement, which is sweeping Christendom today. This much-need site has a fine library of well-written articles that will fully educate anyone about this apostasy in the Church. Unfortunately, the forums really drag this web site into the mire.

Personally, I would prefer that this site be restructured and developed strictly as a source of information about the Community Church Movement/Church Growth Movement. That would provide more credibility.

ascribe to the law huh? What happened to the dispensation of GRACE in the nEw Testament which you(the Church of Christ) so viciously ascribe to, ignoring the Old Testament. Did you ever study about Ruth or Debra in the Word of God. You people are amazing in your interpretation and understanding of the Bible. Go back and really study the history and the origin of 9The Church of Christ) Yea, Mr. Smithor whoever says it was based on the Word and he was only reviving the true Church of Jesus Christ, but look at Mr. Smith etal motives and you will hopefully understand their retoric and how they have done violence to the true Word of God. The truths in the Word that you all negate, misquote, so misguided and deceived. I feel sorry for you knowing all of the wonderful benefits Jesus died for that we have inherited being engrafted into the family of God through Christ. Open up your spiritual ears and eyes, but mostly your heart and spirit.

The common sense is that there are TWO Mr. Smiths you may be confusing with someone else.

Mr. John Smith or Smyth called his church the church of Christ but Baptists now claim him. He LATER adopted the Zwingli FAITH ONLY dogma which mr. Zwingli invented all by himself in about 1525. He claimed that all that came before him were wrong and that HE INVENTED the Baptist system.

History proves that before Zwingli and Smyth about everyone believed Jesus Who connected baptism with the remission sins. Many Baptists never believed Zwingli and Smyth as perhaps a majority of modern Baptists do not believe the 1525 view which came too late to be Christian. A census seems to prove it.

http://www.piney.com/James-Melton-Acts2-38.html

The second Mr. Smith was Joseph Smith father of the Mormons which also claims to be a Restoration Movement so you have to be aware of the movements. The Mormon church was a blend of the American Restoration Movement and the Masons. Smith claimed to have stone glasses and therefore he was called PEEP STONE JOE.

Don't get him confused with the Jubilate Movement which is sowing all of the discord in churches of Christ. The misleaders claim to be apostles. Rubel Shelly claims to have NEW GLASSES by which a NEW vision for the church of Christ has been found.

http://www.piney.com/RSReImaging.html

The American Restoration Movement was simply part of people from all churches who understand that the views of Catholicism which were adopted from practices "common to all cults" made it impossible for people with diverse understandings to meet together in peace.

Thomas Campbell did not advocate any NEW views but that, like the "synagogue" or "ekklesia" which Jesus died to build should just be A SCHOOL OF CHRIST. If everyone left their private views at home then each community could have a SCHOOL or SYNAGOGUE to replace the pagan worship cult which always divided.

Contention would not arise if WORSHIP followed the clear statement of Paul that the PREACHING or TEACHING of one another would consist of GIVING ATTENDANCE TO THE PUBLIC READING OF THE WORD and exhorting people to follow it. The "subservient" elders are LOCKED IN and they CANNOT BE CHRISTIANS because Paul said that they "must teach that which has been taught."

The NOT using instruments is the Biblical view and the almost total historical view even as the "ideal" in the Catholic Encyclopedia. As late as 1911 instruments COULD not be used in the presence of the Pope.

None of the denominations out of which people came had ever believed that you could worship a SPIRIT God by drumming up your own carnal senses with music.

Therefore, don't believe the false drum beats that the church of Christ BECAME SECTARIAN when it refused to sing and dance while the clergy piped. The RACA word is used by the small band of men to describe people who have NEVER believed that music (or its pagan twin: literal sexuality) had EVER been related to the worship of a Spirit God. Therefore, the HATE words are vipers biting using psychological violence against those who follow Christ and the Bible and refuse to follow the NEW APOSTLES who have usurped the role of the elders.

"For a price" they will lead you back to the temple court yard covered up with blood, dung, flies (gods), gushy maggots, burning flesh and the cries of innocent animals. The priests COULD NOT endure this holocaust of people SENTENCED to paying for their own sins. Therefore, the KING and COMMANDERS added the Levitical instrumentalists to create one over-powering noise (monotone) which "served the priests." You, too, would need the NOISE now called "music" TO KEEP FROM GAGGING TO DEATH.

The NOISE and SERVICE which is defined as "hard bondage" kept the priests mind OFF the slaughter of innocent animals. The prophecy was that they would do the same while Lord Jesus Christ was being slaughtered.

For a "CUT" they will even lead you well beyond the Cross and make you TITHE to pay for the near hysterical NOISE of musicians to keep your mind OFF Lord Jesus Christ, the Lamb which was slain JUST ONCE and not personally for those DEMANDING the sign of predestination so that they can receive "believer's baptism" which has its roots in pagan WASHINGS.

Churches of Christ also pried the clergy off the backs of people just as Jesus fired THE DOCTORS OF THE LAW WHO get payed to REPLACE Jesus Christ the ONE AND ONLY TEACHER through His Word.

Don't come to love SPIRITUAL, MENTAL and FINANCIAL ABUSE as some people became ADDICTED to watching animals be slain as they went OUTSIDE THEMSELVES to the beat of the WARRIOR INSTRUMENTALISTS who created PANIC in the enemy.

Those arm waving and clappers and repeating "Lord, Lord" are the ancient but modern prophesiers of whom Jesus said, "Depart, I don't even know your name."

Ken

While I probably wouldn't agree with everything that Broken Hearted said, I would for sure agree with the point that while there seems to be a lot of contending for the faith, there sure doesn't seem to be much love for each other. I too come from a church of Christ background, at least four generations, attended Christian schools, and now serve as an elder. We are struggling with some of the same issues as you, so I don't come into this blindfolded. However, in our congregation of 400 we have left our "Country Club" status quo and plunged into ministry head long. All of the sudden we no longer are exclusively lifetime members of the church, but a church who is alive with both these seasoned members and baptized believers who had no church background at all. This hasn't been accomplished by mean-spirited bickering or compromising scripture, but by prayer, love, service, grace, and above all faith in Christ, trust in God, and allowing the Holy Spirit to flood through our lives. I pray that this rift at Madison can be healed without hurting anyone else.

Terry,

I’m responding to your post in reference to comments made on April 28, 2003 by Brokenhearted with whom I agree: (1) the new [contemporary] worship style at Madison –- geared to make people “feel” better, to be entertained, to grow the church (money); (2) the role of the “change agents/devil trying to take over the church” and causing “division through needless changes” which are unauthorized in the Bible; (3) Paul’s warning to the early churches and to the churches now in deciding that man’s way is better than or is needed to improve upon God’s way.

I would like to ask you, as an elder, to share your resolutions with the Madison elders who are confronted with these issues. However, should the truth be compromised to achieve success, then, let the leaders of Madison seek the truth further for themselves in seeking to achieve peace and harmony in the congregation with the Holy Scripture as their only guide.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Donnie Cruz

When I typed "church of Christ" into my search engine, I was looking for outreach activities for my youth group. As a long time member of the church of Christ, I am absolutely broken hearted that this is what I found. While I am very discouraged by the words of many on this site, I wanted to let you know that your words were an inspiration. Thank you!

Dear Broken-hearted:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Although I am no prophet, I think it safe to say that in coming months and years we will read of scores, if not hundreds of broken-hearted Christians who will report that their congregations have been invaded and wrecked by promoters of change.

Thanks too for your exhortation that we must maintain an appropriate Christian spirit as we seek to defend the Cause of Christ and respond to those who boldly work to capture the hearts of God's people. In opposing error it is very easy to become sour and embittered, but such is self-defeating. We must ever remember the words of Paul "Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus' (Phil. 2:5). For Jerusalem under the hand the Pharisees and Sadducees Jesus lamented (Matt. 23:37-39). For the churches under the hand of the agents of change our hearts should ache and our tears should flow. This is no contest to see who is smartest, cutest or best at repartee. It is a struggle for the heart and soul of the kingdom for which Jesus died.

John Waddey

WHILE SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT EARLY CHURCH REFORMATION, I STUMBLED ACROSS THIS WEB SITE. AS I READ ON I COULDN'T BELIVE WHAT I WAS SEEING. I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS NOW, HAVING PREVIOUSLY CALLED MY SELF A MEMBER OF THE BAPTIST FAITH. I HAVE LEARNED TO LOVE CHRIST WITH ALL THAT I HAVE, AND I HAVE LEARNED OF TRUE WORSHIP, WHERE ALL OF MY HEART AND MIND IS DIRECTED TO GOD. ONE OF THE KEY REASONS LEADING TO MY CONVERSION WAS SEEING HOW THE WORSHIP SERVICE WAS NOT INFLUENCED BY ANYTHING MAN COULD ADD TO MAKE IT BETTER, BUT INSTEAD I NOTICED THAT THE PEOPLE WERE SIMPLY SINGING AND WORSHIPING WITH A TRUE AND SINCERE REVRENCE TO GOD.

IT FRIGTENED ME TO FIND THIS WEB SITE WHILE SEARCHING FOR INFORMATION ON THE REFORMATION OF THE CHURCH. THE REASON THE CHURCH OF CHRIST IS WHAT IT IS (IN IT'S ORIGINALITY) IS BECAUSE WE WANTED THE ABSENCE OF THE TRADITIONS OF MAN FROM THE WORSHIP SERVICES OF GOD.

WE SHOULD NEVER ALLOW WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE A CHANGE FOR THE BETTER, TAKE THE PLACE OF WHAT GOD'S PEOPLE HAVE DONE IN WORSHIP, SINCE THE BEGINING OF THE EARLY CHURCH.

THINK BACK. CAN YOU EVER REMEMBER A TIME BEFORE NOW, WHEN IN THE CHURCHES OF CHRIST ANYWHERE, IT HAS BEEN O-KAY TO WORSHIP IN THIS MANNER.

MY HEART WAS SADDENED TO SEE SUCH A STRUGLE TAKING PLACE IN THE LORD'S CHURCH, FOR THE SAKE OF OUR PLEASURE IN WORSHIP. BUT, FURTHER MORE TO SEE A PART OF THE LORD'S CHURCH BE CATEGORIZED, EVEN TODAY, AS REFORMING. WE LEAD THE WAY FOR CHRISTIANS EVERYWHERE, TEACHING GOD IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND TOMORROW; TEACHING THAT OUR WORSHIP TO GOD IS WHAT WE GIVE, NOT HOW I CAN IMPROVE IT.

SIMPLY PUT...WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET, NOR TAKE LIGHTLY THE FACT THAT OUR SINGING TO GOD CAN ONLY BE IMPROVED WITHIN OUR HEARTS. THE CHRISTIAN HEART IS THE ONLY PLACE FOR CHANGE IN THE LORD'S CHURCH.

LOVER OF CHRIST

Bob:

Your plea or request to “please don’t condemn” the Praise Teams, clapping, raising hands or anything we “are worried about” … is well received. I might add to your list: Madison’s one and only WORSHIP LEADER also. The only problem is that you have directed your request to ConcernedMembers. Wrong! I believe the correct approach is this: Since Christians are to make known their requests and needs to the Father through our only mediator, Lord Jesus Christ [definitely NOT through the WORSHIP LEADER], your request to “PLEASE DON’T CONDEMN” needs to be directed to our Reverend Father in heaven!

I’m getting the impression more and more that you, Bob, are an expert at handclapping. I must confess that sometimes I just have the urge to clap during the happy MUSICAL concert hour with the few others who are really into this stuff. But I have a problem with being in sync with you and others. I just don’t have the beat and coordination of your “rap” and “rock ‘n roll” community of contemporary believers. So, for a start, please let me know if I have the right “clap beat” to a couple of songs:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- My Life Is In Your, Lord (*song in red notebook)
--- --- My [clap] life is [clap] in You [clap], Lord [clap],
--- --- My [clap] hope is [clap] in You [clap], Lord [clap],
--- --- My [clap] strength is [clap] in You [clap], Lord [clap],
--- --- I will [clap] praise [clap] You [clap] with [clap] …
--- --- [W.L. motions the crowd to clap after song; handclapping folks imitate]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- Give Thanks To The Lord (*song in red notebook)
--- --- Give [clap] thanks to [clap] the Lord [clap] for [clap] He is [clap] good [clap],
--- --- Give [clap] thanks to [clap] the Lord [clap] for [clap] He is [clap] good [clap],
--- --- Give [clap] thanks to [clap] the Lord [clap] for [clap] He is [clap] good [clap],
--- --- His [clap] love [clap] endures [clap] for e-[clap] ver[clap].
--- --- [Song Leader Only]:
--- --- His love will reign … (Praise Team: reign forever more),
--- --- His pow’r will reign … (Praise Team: reign forever more),
--- --- His grace will reign … (Praise Team: reign forever more),
--- --- His peace will reign … (Praise Team: reign forever more),
--- --- His love will reign … (Praise Team: reign forever more),
--- --- His pow’r will reign … (Praise Team: reign forever more),
--- --- His [clap] love [clap] endures [clap] for e-[clap]ver[clap].
--- --- [W.L. motions the crowd to clap after song; handclapping folks imitate]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- Ancient of Days (*in red notebook)
--- --- … Your kingdom shall reign over all the earth [CLAP, CLAP, CLAP],
--- --- (Programmed clapping in exactly 3 eighth notes and extremely loud)
--- --- Sing unto the Ancient of Days.
--- --- For none can compare to Your matchless worth [CLAP, CLAP, CLAP].
--- --- (Programmed clapping in exactly 3 eighth notes and extremely loud)
--- --- Sing unto the Ancient of Days….
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--- Don’t Be Afraid (*in red notebook)
--- --- Be strong and courageous and do not be afraid [CLAP, CLAP],
--- --- The Lord goes with you each and everyday.
--- --- He’ll never forsake you, don’t be afraid.
--- --- The Lord goes before you thro’ the trouble and strife [CLAP, CLAP],
--- --- And He will protect you all the days of your life.
--- --- He’ll never forsake you, don’t be afraid.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Donnie

Donnie, we have noted that the NOISE made a great, crashing sound while the priests were burning the animal sacrifices. These sacrifices were pleading with God to accept the sacrifices as the atonement for their OWN sins. Even in a PURIFIED temple the "sounding" was outside of the TYPE of the church of Christ. AND they were slaughtering the TYPE of Lord Jesus Christ.

To ADOPT the Jewish "music" is to, like David, always call for God not to abandon him or even to try to AROUSE Him much like the prophets of Baal under Jezebel.
==========================================

However, the incense as the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS in Christianity was offered in the Holy Place as a TYPE of the church or body of Christ.

Jamison-Fausett-Brown Revelation 8 notes that:

"In the Jewish temple, musical instruments and singing resounded during the whole time of the OFFERING of the SACRIFICES, which formed the first part of the service.

---But at the offering of INCENSE, solemn SILENCE was kept ("My soul waiteth upon God," Ps 62:1; "is SILENT," Margin; Ps 65:1, Margin),

-----the PEOPLE praying SECRETLY all the time.

[The "team" or leader can ask God for someting on my behalf, BUT no one can sing my own praise nor PRAY my prayers. The attempt claims for the LEADER: "I am Lord Jesus Christ Who died for your sins.]

---The half-hour STILLNESS implies, too, the earnest adoring EXPECTATION with which the blessed spirits and the angels await the succeeding unfolding of God's judgments. A short space is implied; for even an hour is so used (Re 17:12 18:10,19).

--IN HEBREW SILENCE IS: Duwmiyyah (h1747) doo-me-yaw'; from 1819; stillness; adv. silently; abstr. quiet, trust: - silence, silent, waiteth.

In many pagan religions CLAPPING OF HANDS was to get the "attention" of the gods: I have seen it done. That would be at the relatively ELEVATED SPIRITUAL status of a rank PAGAN. For little singy-clappies it just means infantile JUBILATION of those who jump and clap before they can walk and talk.

Rank pagans also believed that the HIGH PITCHED PRAISE of a trained speaker or singer was proof that the "gods" were speaking.

ALL of them SCAMMED with the claim that the "musical" tones coming out of musical instruments or an old wineskin (familiar spirit) was the gods speaking.

This is why Habakkuk warned of old Jewish superstition:

--Hab 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, ARISE, it shall TEACH Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is NO BREATH at all in the midst of it.

----Hab 2:20 BUT the Lord is in HIS holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

This silence is: Hacah (h2013) haw-saw'; a prim. root; to hush: - hold peace (tongue), (keep) silence, be silent, still.

Paul said the same thing while others were PROPHESYING which was to GIVE ATTENTION TO THE PUBLIC READING OF THE WORD as it had been taught:

----1 Cor 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace (QUIET), as in all churches of the saints.

----1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

SINGING AND CLAPPING WITH LOOSE HAIR would be the "uncovered prophesying" Paul condemned even outside the assembly (1 Cor 11:5).

The singy clappy stuff was almost always a WOMAN'S PROBLEM where "worship" was the only place to "let it all hang out." Scholars note that "only women and effemate males would fall into this delusion."

THE LORD IS IN HIS HOLY TEMPLE (MY HUMAN SPIRIT) YOU SILLY GENDER-CONFUSED CHILDREN SHOULD HAVE THE COMMON DECENCY TO BE SILENT BEFORE THE LORD. You confused children CLAP because you have listened to so much music ("christian music" is an insult to Christ) which depends on the VOODOO concept which is 100% sexual. The repeat of these phrase as CALL AND RESPONSE is deliberately stroking people and LYING by calling it WORSHIP. There is never any redemption for this scam often condemned in the Bible as the LIKE THE NATIONS or Babel worship of their COMMUNITY.

SILENCE was demanded and practiced in the Holy Place and Paul demanded it in the church and A TIDBIT of spirituality will demand it in the ASSEMBLY. Jesus put worship IN MY SPIRIT and therefore JESUS DEMANDED both my silence and YOUR silence.

In attention to Paul's use of GIVING HEED TO THE WORD, true "worship" also demands silence, reverence, like a dog licking the shoes of its master. Never seen a dog clapping.

Ken Sublett

Well first of all it does not say anywhere in the New Testament to sing to music, nowhere does it mention music. So I believe we should not add to or take from the Bible.

Don't you have anything better to do with your time as a Christian than harass others with your sarcastic clapping tirade. Ick. I'll never return to this site. I was looking for intelligent dialogue on the issue.

Clapping is perfectly fine for children and others who can not decipher what the differences are in "Spiritual" and "Physical". It is not necessary or required in a Spiritual Gathering of mature Christians.

A "praise team", or "Choir" as most call them, is an artificial substitute for a congregationally bonding worship practice that gives members of the congregation an excuse to not have to sing. This is especially obvious if they are up in the pulpit or up front holding microphones in their hand. Musical Instruments to aid the singing are not much different, they just add a degree to the artificial aspect being a physical, not spiritual, periferal.

I PREFER to Worship in SPIRIT and TRUTH as Jesus commanded.


Larry

Lawrence, the Mad General wants to use the Exodus and Canaan land as his PATTERNISM. We have noted that Moses' Midianite father in law probably led him to lose faith in God's power to "carry" the people. Later on, the Midianites seduced Israel into OFFERING and EATING the sacrifices to Baal Peor.

Maybe one of our Child Prodigals can rearrange the word

------CLAPPING------

You can only exchange one letter to transmorgify the Mad Clapping into Baal Peor worship.

Isn't that preessshush?

Ken

Ah yes, my way is better than your way.....

Larry thank you for describing the life-changing, dumbing down, of song book holding.

To be faithful one must hold the hymnal just so...
with one hand, back slighty arched, bellowing at the top of one's lungs.

Your points about microphones are well taken at more traditional churches.

So if you would, please remove the one at the podium,
and take the speakers out of the nursery, in fact turn off the lights....no wait you're already in the darkness.

I can tell you first hand there is less singing in your one song leader assemblies, than there will ever be in ours.

So please take your "little gauges of faithfulness"
and make them useful in your "little" church,
and leave us alone.
If we ever need anymore of your "spirit and truth",
you'll be the first one we call.



Perhaps, someday, you'll develop your own faith, and not have to depend on dear, old dad's.

When you've fallen and can't get up, then you'll need
"The Clapper."

Clap on...Clap off...

Dal

Hey Dal,

Remember those Bible studies we used to do in '68? The year that you, me and Gibby(Bob Gibson) helped us to a penant? It was almost as memorable as hitting 61 homers with Mick in '61 in NY.

I remember you teaching about Philip and the Eunuch from Acts 8. When it said that he "preached Jesus to him" we wondered what that meant. I recall the picture that you painted with words how when they went down the road. It was hours and hours of Philip telling the Eunuch about Jesus. It was years worth of testimony. If I remember right it started in John 1:43 right before the wedding in Cana, when Philip was introduced to Jesus. He was with Him right through His ascending to heaven in Acts 1:9.

What was it like on the Eunuch's carriage(or whatever mode of transportation)going down the road. Were there fan servants to keep them cool? Was there volumes of food and drink?

Did the Eunuch CLAP HIS HANDS FOR THE SERVANTS TO PERFORM THEIR DUTIES?

Dal, I don't remember how you said he got their attention. It's not really important now is it? What is important is that Philip preached Jesus to him and he responded. That's what's important today also...that we preach Jesus to them.

I'm enjoying your contributions to this site. When's our next reunion going to be? Maybe we can have it in Nashville later this year. It would be great to get together again. Could we do it at Madison? I've never been there...if it's good enough for Dal, it's good enough for me.

Swinging for the fences,

Roger

If so, so what? He wasn't IN CHURCH.

And Philip wasn't IN CHURCH. He was the only minimally supported person authorized by Christ: He was an EVANGELIST which meant that he didn't have an office with easy chair tiltable to the prone position while he talked: "Ken, we gotta be more evangelistic."

If it don't matter it just don't matter.

Philip was selected BY the HELLENIC Jews WHOM HE WAS TO SERVE. He was not selected by the Apostles who were several steps above self-selected or peer-selected "youngers."

He was declared to be FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. As a "deacon" Paul defines this as:

1Ti.3:9 Holding the mystery of THE faith in a pure conscience.

That pure conscience was requested at BAPTISM according to Peter (1 Pet 3:21) which was a co-perception of the WORD. In Acts 2:38 that was the gift of A holy spirit

Therefore, Philip knew the MYSTERIES OF THE FAITH or the Christian system. Scratch your elders and preachers.

Philip was HONEST: he obeyed the GREAT COMMISSION and went into the world and preached the gospel. Scratch your "located" evangelists: no pay for those that stay.

If the eunuch CLAPPED to call his servants then we can have no objection. But CLAPPING was ALWAYS the MARK of the SUPERIOR (real or hallucinated) over the INFERIOR.

Get the TRUE PICTURE: The Eunuch CLAPPS to SUMMON Candace to his bed?

Clapping like HISSING at the OLD ball game was to BOO the loosers. Clapping in Church ABSOLUTELY DECLARES that my insane sounding CHANTING/CLAPPING is SUPERIOR to the WORDS of Christ which is the DIRECT COMMAND of Paul.

Clapping declares that the TEAM is superior to the retarded girl who sings off key from memory. I declare the retarded girl SUPERIOR because Christ would bow to HER and "cast the team out like dung."

Dal is WRONG: the Eunuch DID NOT CLAP. Rather, like ALL POTENTIAL CHRISTIANS who must understand MORE than his group is going to teach them:

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except SOME MAN should guide me? And he desired (pleaded with) Philip that he would come up and SIT with him.

Jesus STOOD UP at the pulpit which held up the BIBLE and read a passage. Then He had the common DECENCY to sit down and dialog what He had written.

CLAPPING is God pouring out His wrath in the imagry of Ephesiahd 4. When He wants to baptize a DISCIPLE He sends an evangelist who IS ON THE GO--not on the DOLE. When He wants to pour out His WRATH He sends a BUFFOON or maybe a whole TEAM of Jesters and clappers: fools for the king's court. A whole WORKSHOP to resurrect the dead BEAST called Jubilee?

Whatever you have BECOME, there are not CLAPP LEADERS in the entire CHRISTIAN DISPENSATION pre Shelly, Walling etal. If these BAPTIZED people join in all the clappy games they CANNOT be DISCIPLED to Jesus Christ.

Ken Sublett

Excuse this BUT END:

That is the way God COMMANDED it Dal? LESS Singing!

I don't smoke enough Jimson weed to hallucinate; nor eat enough MAYAPPLE fruit (the Fruit Circe used) to hallucinate that you will EVER grasp this because it comes form the BIBLE which is the only TEXTBOOK of the school of Christ. Remember? I told you that RELIGION is the invention of Satan to silence SCHOOL?

Now, let me try it again. The REJECTION possible in Romans 15 is solved ONLY if the assembly (ekklesia and not CHURCH) is involved in acting LIKE Christ:

4 For whatsoever things were WRITTEN aforetime were written for our LEARNING (or teaching), that we through patience and COMFORT of the SCRIPTURES might have hope.

WE ARE GODLIKE WHEN WE ACT LIKE GOD AND ACCEPT THE ONLY WAY OF GETTING AND GIVING PATIENCE AND CONSOLATION:

5 Now the God OF patience and consolation grant you to be LIKEMINDED one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

JESUS SHOWED NO PARTIALITY AND "CAST THE TEAM OUT LIKE DUNG" BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED THAT HAD CONTACT WITH THE SUPERNATURAL. JAMES DECLARED THAT SHOWING PARTIALITY BROUGHT DOWN THE TOTAL WEIGHT OF THE LAW ON YOUR HEAD. "TEAMS" SHOW PARTIALITY WHEN LOTS OF PEOPLE DON'T SEE THEM AS "CUTE" AS THEY THINK THEY ARE. There must be 10 good song leaders at Madison so the BODY is being REPUDIATED.

6 That ye may with one MIND (SPIRIT) and ONE MOUTH glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us, to the glory of God.

CONCLUSION: NINTH INNING: The ONLY WAY to glorify God in assembly is to speak with ONE MOUTH "that which is written." All of "that which is written" is by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST (1 pe 1:11; Rev 19:10).

OVERTIME, DAL: Ephesians

5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the SPIRIT;

The SPIRIT here is THE WORD OF CHRIST which also gives LIFE.

5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody IN YOUR heart to the Lord;

SPEAKING is NOT singing: you CANNOT speak and sing at the same time any more than you can walk and run at the same time: two different things.

SPEAKING here is the same word for PREACHING.

Just like Romans 15 using all PARTICIPANTS IS the ONLY way to GLORIFY GOD one voice (unison). Speaking to "yourselves" to David could have literally been on his bed at night. ONE ANOTHER preaching is IMPOSSIBLE if the professional musician sings HIS songs to dominates the ONE ANOTHER.

Can't you see that this VIOLATES two direct commandments and the APPROVED EXAMPLE OF CHRIST?

That which is written by the Spirit of Christ is PSALMS, HYMNS AND SPIRITUAL SONGS. These are ALL inspired material. You CANNOT praise God unless He gives you the METHOD any more than you can SEE Him. Rubel Shelly claims that the TEAMS "mediate" in the place of Jesus to "lead you into the presence of God." That is rank heresy.

NO, DAL, there is no ifs about this. History recognizes this PRAISE MATERIAL which is TEACHING material as THAT WHICH IS INSPIRED. Now, you don't have to USE it but that means that you don't have to be a DISCIPLE of Christ. To defend a PROFESSIONAL CHRISTIAN using his own silly clappy- crappy songs means that YOU CANNOT be a Christian worshiper. Make it simple, Dal: you CANNOT play baseball by the rules of FOOTBALL.

Some THINGS are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE: reject the words of Jesus then He says that you reject the words of God. That means that even if you baptize a hundred a week you ARE NOT remotely similar to what Jesus Christ died to give you to FREE you from what you are DEFENDING with all of your might. Tithing and music are just SYMPTOMS that "Jesus has been there and gone."

Paul said it several times:

Col 3:16 Let the WORD of CHRIST dwell in you richly in all wisdom;

---TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another in PSALMS and HYMNS and SPIRITUAL songs, singing with grace IN your HEARTS to the Lord.

THIS IS IDENTICAL TO THE LEARNING AND COMFORT FROM GOD IN ROMANS 15. IT IS ALSO THE ONLY WAY NOT TO STEAL THE GLORY FROM GOD.

The method is ONE ANOTHER. The RESOURCES are:

----The Word of Christ
----Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.

Paul DID NOT SAY "do this with exhilaration" or "enraptured from RAPED". He said:

-----SING and MAKE MELODY
-----In the HEART

SINGING was a 100% secular activity because it involved ARTIFICIALLY changing the HARP which God gave you. Those who did it were females or perverts but others might EXPOSE THEIR TALENT only if DRUNK. SCHOLARS note that sometimes they were "drunk on ignorance."

ODE was more like READING THE WORD as Paul instructed Timothy and something the RELIGIOUS GROUP joined together in: it was not PERFORMED by an individual any more than a game is played with just a PITCHER. The TEAM approach claims that the TEAM IS THE PROFESSIONAL LEARNERS.

MELODY is NOT a "musical word." It speaks of "grinding the enemy into bits" like the SOP which Jesus ground up for JUDAS. You can psallo or MELODY an enemies heart by twanging the bowstring to send the singing arrow. You can psallo a man's head off. But for MUSIC there is another word, SUMPHONIA, which includes singing, dancing, clapping, playing instruments and drinking wine. THERE IS NO MUSIC WORD USED IN THE SPIRITUAL WORSHIP OF THE "CHRISTIAN" GOD. Therefore, you CANNOT be a Christian or DISCIPLE and try to worship God with MUSIC rather than TEACH the revealed WORD all of which is inspired by THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST.
=================================================

Now, to TRUMP that you have to believe RUBEL SHELLY and the New Wine Skinners and Jubilators that the OLD Bible has been lost to us except seven facts ABOUT Jesus. However, he and friends claim NEW GLASSES like Mormon's Peep Stone Joe Smith. Now, they have a NEW VISION for the church of Christ. Joe Beam's friend defines the EMERGING CHURCH in terms quite identical to witchcraft. Or more appropriately just like most ancient paganism. And Joe Beam ascribes to his book (God led you to the bookstore) what Jesus claims for His.

However, HISTORY has validated the correctness of the TEACHING of Jesus of Nazareth. CHRISTIANITY is discipleship to THOSE TEACHINGS. Since you and yours REPUDIATE or PERVERT those Scriptures which lasted up to the time of Shelly, you SIMPLY CANNOT be a CHRISTIAN in the historic sense.

Genuine speaking in tongues was speaking MINOR DIALECTS in Corinth where most people understood Koine Greek as one of the FIVE LANGUAGES. For those who spoke the gibberish of the pagan temples Paul defined it as MADNESS. No one not drunk or OUT OF HIS MIND with music as the MOST POWERFUL mind control device can speak the following without being insane or SCAMMING you:

"Kalla ma sone, da fa kooka shores. It kin da la key la shone da la kene (his voice becomes hoarse and is reduced to an indistinguishable whisper). Bear fose sone ta wentta lone (voice trails off into a whisper again). Da lotta tongue de cush–a–wong do so coo toe. Ah shon da ba she dees ... O. Lord, your good ... Gash a la mon sewer. El ah ma she sa (more whispering). Fa kon a la ma dorman begetta see de so lawsuit..."

There have always been TWO teams and you guys have the WRONG COACH. Too bad but it IS NOT remotely related to the historic church of Christ either "old fashioned" or new.

Ken Sublett

My way, (the Spritual and Truthful way), may not SOUND "better" than your way, (the Artificial way), but has much more to do with singing from the "heart" by the assembly and participation.

While we are removing the microphones from the podium and the speakers in the nursery, lets also remove the air-conditioning and pews and water fountains. I might have imagined an argument like this from you. Don't be ridiculous!!!!

I don't know how anyone can tell how much singing there is by a congregation when YOU HAVE A CHOIR blatantly visible an dominately audible PERFORMING UP FRONT. The "little" church remark was quite tacky but I think it also quite irrelevant.

Brother, I can tell YOU first hand. I attended your MEGA church for the better part of 30 years and I'll bet thats a lot longer than you have been there. I saw the song service first hand from both angles. I can tell YOU FIRST HAND that the way it was in the beginning is the Spiritual and Truthful way. I thought the song service under Keith Lancaster's direction was great in the beginning but then it became too melo-dramatic and fake. I have stood firm by the faith that I have DEVELOPED over the years and there are many people who were my friends before who give me the cold shoulder now but there is not anything I can do about that. There are also people there who I am still very good friends with but NOTHING is gonna make me think "Well maybe this stuff is ok". And, as long as there are people out there like you trying to push it and a means for me to talk about it I ain't shuttin up and I ain't leavin you alone.

I'll tell you one thing BUBBA, IF I HAVE HALF THE FAITH THAT "DEAR OLD DAD" HAS, I'll bet it is TWICE the faith YOU HAVE!

I guess we won't have to worry about you ever falling and not being able to get up. Will we?

Mr. Bennett, you really showed you own selfishness in this post. It is truly "your way" that you are describing and not God's way. TRUTHFULLY, God does not care if your hands come together or up or are holding a book. It is your HEART he cares about....not the positioning of your hands.

As far as being rediculous, some of the arguments I have read here regarding worship styles are about as rediculous as getting rid of microphones and air conditioning. It sounds to me like you need to get over your own opinion of "how" worship is done and get on to what God wants rather than what you like...

Just a thought....

Mr. B

Bo,
The only reason that I referred to it as "My Way" is because I was reponding to a statement where someone else had called it that.

I don't think God cares if your hands come together but it is not necessary, required or spiritual. God's way is Spirit and Truth.

Jesus told us in the Bible what God wants in worship. I have demostrated over and over how some of the things being practiced in worship contradict this. It is not just "What I Like" and it is not just an "Opinion" and IN MY OPINION it is not ridiculous.

Thanks,
Larry

Your attitude is terrible. You have taken the I hate my brother tone to someone that is concerned about what your doing in worship. You sound bitter, and probably need to take the advice of some of your friends, BE LOVING. Isn't striving for the truth a duty of a Christian?

Think about it.

Chris,
Just wondering, What article are you responding to?
Larry

Larry:

I have traced Chris’ response back to Dal’s post as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Clap for the Wolfman (Dal Maxvill) April 3 2003, 2:17 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah yes, my way is better than your way.....

Larry thank you for describing the life-changing, dumbing down, of song book holding. … To be faithful one must hold the hymnal just so... with one hand, back slighty arched, bellowing at the top of one's lungs. Your points about microphones are well taken at more traditional churches. So if you would, please remove the one at the podium, and take the speakers out of the nursery, in fact turn off the lights....no wait you're already in the darkness. I can tell you first hand there is less singing in your one song leader assemblies, than there will ever be in ours.

So please take your "little gauges of faithfulness" and make them useful in your "little" church, and leave us alone. If we ever need anymore of your "spirit and truth", you'll be the first one we call. Perhaps, someday, you'll develop your own faith, and not have to depend on dear, old dad's.

When you've fallen and can't get up, then you'll need "The Clapper."

Clap on...Clap off...

Dal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Donnie

First the comment. There are so few people that clap hands that I find it astounding that they actually had to drive so many members away just so some could do it.

For those people who would clap hands but still not have instrumental music in the worship: Drums are a musical instrument. As such, you would not have them in the worship service. They are part of a percussion section of a musical group. Clapping hands is percussion. It is NOT singing. As such, the hands must be considered musical instruments. What then is the difference between the hands as a musical instrument and a set of drums?

And if you are wondering, I find hand-clapping an annoying distraction from paying to attention to the words that I am singing.

According to the CONTEMPORARY “PRAISE” WORSHIP REVOLUTION, the SCHEME to make worship “joyous” must be formatted to include these main ingredients:

(1) The newly man-created church position of WORSHIP LEADER must direct and CONTROL ALL the activities during the entire assembly period. This implies that the scope of responsibility of this WORSHIP LEADER is broader than and encompasses (or has under its umbrella) the preaching activity, a role of the evangelist. This appears to be the worship hierarchy in churches that embrace this new worship structure, including the Madison Church of Christ. This may explain why Dr. Bruce White, the preacher, has received an e-mail from someone asking if Keith Lancaster’s role is more important and more significant than his. Dr. White quite often compliments Ldr. Lancaster of a great job directing the “MUSICAL” worship. On the other hand, I have YET to hear the WORSHIP LEADER “praise” the messenger of the message. In addition, I find the new structure very strange: the WORSHIP COMMITTEE is comprised of Keith Lancaster and ONLY ONE of several elders, Buck Dozier. Is this because Buck is moving up the ladder as slowly-but-surely the Chief Elder? I don’t know –- that remains to be seen. After all, Mr. Dozier is the one that formulated the “Covenant of Membership” –- a trademark of the CHANGE movement.

(2) The WORSHIP LEADER’S musicians (a.k.a. PRAISE TEAM members) are supposedly to only assist the congregation with learning new songs. There are various PRAISE TEAMS: one group sits in front with their microphones during the contemporary assembly. Some of these musicians are in the midst of the assembly for “traditional” members –- scattered or interspersed so as to give the impression that the 8:30am gathering does not have a Praise Team. Regardless, PRAISE TEAMS must rehearse and perform to display their musical talents to perfection. As we know it, a rehearsal precedes performance or performance necessitates rehearsals. They violate their own rule of ASSISTING only, when they continue to perform even after the “congregation” has already become familiar with the “praise” songs.

(3) The CONTEMPORARY worship must have clapping; without clapping, singing reverts to being traditional. Let’s just go with what results when programmed and rehearsed “JOYOUS” handclapping is practiced. As Jerry Lafargue has commented: “There are so few people that clap hands that I find it astounding that they actually had to drive so many members away just so some could do it. For those people who would clap hands but still not have instrumental music in the worship: Drums are a musical instrument. As such, you would not have them in the worship service. They are part of a percussion section of a musical group. Clapping hands is percussion. It is NOT singing. As such, the hands must be considered musical instruments. What then is the difference between the hands as a musical instrument and a set of drums? And if you are wondering, I find hand-clapping an annoying distraction from paying to attention to the words that I am singing.”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++~
Donnie Cruz