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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Otter Creek

December 27 2016, 6:39 PM 

Re: DISTANT VOICES (a Review)by John Waddey
January 30 2006, 8:53 AM

Ken, the God of the Bible I know, does not have to send "Buffoons and Jesters," which you say "is the meaning of God's wrath (orge) on people who deliberately pervert the scriptures as apostates and Prophets."

Paul speaks of the "natural man" in his letter to the church at Corinth which is appropiate for the church today. The "natural man" in the church did not "receive the things of the Holy Spirit" as did the Apostles.
Paul would say, "But WE (apostles) have the mind of Christ."

God inspired His messangers to reveal and record His will: once delivered, the understanding, preservation, and transmission of the message rested upon the devotion and fidelity of those who chose to do His will. Read Matthew 25:13 about ability and responsibility.

When men failed of accurate preservation, or intelligent interpretation, or of faithful proclamation to all men, God did not intervene by a miracle; else every time a translation of the Scripture was made to another language, every time a sermon was preached, immediate miraculous guidance would have been necessary. God delivered devine truth to man; the responsibility is man's for the fulfillment of its purpose.

Hear again the words of Jesus in His parable of the talents: "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his servants, and delivered unto them his goods. Unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one: to EVERY man according to his ABILITY."

Each of us will be held accountable of our "ability" on what we teach about the "kingdom of heaven" with the "goods delivered." The "Buffoon" is not the "natural man" of 1 Corinthians 2:14. Paul's "natural man" was IN the church. My faith does not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God: the "anointing power" of 1 John 2:27.
Jack Mann

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Otter Creek

December 27 2016, 7:12 PM 

I didn't understand him then nor now.

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Otter Creek

December 27 2016, 7:29 PM 


Ken and Jack




[linked image]

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
23.127.32.146

Re: Otter Creek

December 27 2016, 7:46 PM 

The Restoration Movement -- (Ken Sublett)

----------------- vs ---------------------

The Community Church Movement [of the Change Agents] -- (Jack Mann)

 
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Sarge
(no login)
68.74.186.218

Re: Otter Creek

December 27 2016, 7:14 PM 


I propose an one week stand down. It's apparent the the give a sheet(sic) is waning. JMHO

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Otter Creek

December 27 2016, 7:35 PM 

Sarge give a sheet(sic)

When the musical ministry team wanted to AID Jesus He "cast them out more or less violently like ejecting dung."

But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

Ekballo (g1544) ek-bal'-lo; from 1537 and 906; to eject (lit. or fig.): - bring forth, cast (forth, out), drive (out), expel, leave, pluck (pull, take, thrust) out, put forth (out), send away (forth, out)

Ballo (g906) bal'-lo; a prim. verb; to throw (in various applications, more or less violent or intense): - arise, cast (out), * dung, lay, lie, pour, put (up), send, strike, throw (down), thrust. Comp. 4496.
koprion , to, = kopros,
kopros I. dung, ordure, manure, 2. generally, dirt, filtesp. in Magic, dirt taken from spot where a corpse has lain,


Instrumentalists need to remove the dung and "moon blood" from your assembly.

Isaiah 30 which says that God will cast His enemies into "hell" to the sound of wind, string and percussion instruments also marks Messiah's come to washing the dung out of Jerusalem.

[linked image]

 
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Ken
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: KEEPING ABREAST: REVIEWS OF BOOKS AND MATERIALS RELATING TO THE CHANGE MOVEMENT

December 27 2016, 7:25 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

We Knew All Along...

December 28 2016, 8:36 AM 

Ken, I noticed that you used the phrase "intelligent interpretation."

happy.gif

So now it is no longer 'speaking that which is written' but "intelligent interpretation."


Give a man enough rope and he will hang himself.

If you 'speak that which is written' then you don't EVER need 'intelligent interpretation.'

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: We Knew All Along...

December 28 2016, 11:58 AM 

Paul and everyone commands that

We SPEAK that which is written for our learning

Interpretation says that means:

We SPEAK that which is written for our learning

Private Interpretation means "further expounding." You further expound by saying that Paul commanded that

We SING that which is written by the praise singers.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

SING

December 30 2016, 10:31 AM 

I don't say anything. Talk about your psallo, and your plucking, but the KJV SAYS SING.

You can talk about the hallels too but the beautiful KJV word uses SING which meant vocal vibration to the translators. It might not be four part harmony, which you employed during your church time, but it is singing none the less.

 
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Sarge
(no login)
174.223.130.191

Re: SING

December 30 2016, 1:29 PM 

Return to Index
"psallo"February 8 2006 at 5:04 AM Jack Mann (no login)
from IP address 72.49.62.71


Response to Plucking is a MARK!
Agreement that the verb "psallo" means to twitch, twang, pluck, strike has been noted. English dictionaries, Greek lexicans provide this invaluable evidence, and in addition, supply the instrument that is twitched, plucked or struck.

M.C. Kurfees contended that the verb "psallo" changed its meaning near the beginning of the New Testament
era. This confusion was built upon assumption only.
What Mr. Kurfees ASSUMED is what he did not PROVE and those of the non-instrument persuasion are still faced with this impossible task today.

Actually, we can see from this forum that the non instrumental church does not believe "psallo" changed.
Ken believes that the "heart strings" and not the "harp strings" are plucked, twitched, twanged. Ken has substituted the "heart" for the "harp."

I would ask Ken: Where is the biblical authority for this substitution? Please, AUTHENTIC evidence is unavailable to prove that the heart is an instrument. Is not assumption, on other matters, the foundation of Denominationalism?
Say "yes," because it is!

God says that we are saved by "faith" (Romans 5:1; Gal. 5:6). Denominationalists ADD the word ONLY, formulating the doctrine of "faith only" (Rev. 22:18, 11 John:vs 9).
Now, when God says "sing" and men ADD the word ONLY, formulating the doctrine of "sing only," just what is the difference? Now, be careful, do not let your emotions run away with your answer.

Paul, Silas and Luke baptized Lydia and her HOUSEHOLD (Acts 16:15). ADD the word "infants," assuming that all households have infants, and you have the apostles practicing "infant baptism." A false premise produces a false conclusion.

Let us consider the axiom: A part that stands for the whole.
God commands an alien sinner to believe, repent, confess faith in Christ, be immersed in water for the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. This individual would be considered a "believer," a term which includes each act of faith required to be saved in the "mind of God."
Those who teach and believe that man is "saved" in the "heart" of the alien sinner, (Ken's home for the "musical organ"), and not the mind of God will disagree, but that is another lesson for another time.

...."baptism does NOW save us.."(1 Peter 3:21). Here, we have a part standing for the whole. (The other acts of faith not being SPECIFIED but included). The Jerusalem church, "praised God," which included any or acceptable acts of praise since no certain one was specified.

 
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Dave
(no login)
66.112.162.15

Strike Three

December 30 2016, 12:43 PM 

Ken said
"Paul and everyone commands that

We SPEAK that which is written for our learning

Interpretation says that means:

We SPEAK that which is written for our learning"


Where did you get that one about the Interpretation? ANYONE'S (including yours even though you believe your interpretation is special) interpretation is just that....a PERSONAL meaning of something already written.

If it isn't quoting scriptures, then it is a PERSONAL opinion even if you think yours is all objective.

Merriam-Webster
: the act or result of explaining or interpreting something : the way something is explained or understood



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Strike Three

December 30 2016, 5:47 PM 

Col. 3:16 Let the WORD of Christ DWELL in you richly in all wisdom;

The Word or LOGOS is God in our presence when we SPEAK that word:
Logos is EXCLUSIVE of personal opinions, personal experiences, rhetoric, singing, poetry, playing instruments, acting or anything which arouses and causes the "laded burden" or "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals.

Jesus said MY WORDS are Spirit and Life: Spirit is the BREATH of God congealed in Words ONLY by Jesus. It is not INTERPRETING in the private sense of FURTHER EXPOUNDING to quote the same Paul saying the same thing."

Eph. 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the WILL of the Lord is.
Eph. 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be FILLED with the Spirit;


The Spirit for our understanding is the Word of Christ, the Word of God, the Will of God exclusive of rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or ACTING.

Eph. 5:19 SPEAKING to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;


It doesn't matter how many times I repeat it if you refuse to understand that the Jesus-Masculine operative words are to READ or SPEAK. Paul commanded that we SPEAK. It is not my interpretation to tell you what Simple Simon and Silly Sally knew from going to SCHOOL at the Synagogue:

[linked image]

The ONLY resource is the WILL of the Lord or the WORD, Logos or regulative principle opposite of any human opinions. Then:

TEACHING [didasko] and admonishing [NOUTHETEO putting in mind]

ONE ANOTHER in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs,


These are ALL forms contained in the BOOK of Psalms and in many passages of revealed Scripture written in a poetic form.

singing with grace
...... IN your hearts TO the Lord.


Psallo is never a "musical melody" word and melody and grace are states of one's mind: He spoke GRACEFULLY or HARMONIOUSLY or he had a melodious voice. That is why the PLACE is IN the heart as a produce of SPEAKING the very Words of God which you have no intention of permitting.

EN is a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively),


En is not WITH

Paul taught worship IN THE HEART and not IN THE FLESH which obeyed the Word from the wilderness onward and would not permit a PLACE of the dogs or concisions speaking of the Cynics.

It is a vile insult for anyone to think that I should pay them to sing silly, effeminate praise songs CLAIMING that they were WORSHIPING. They say "WE are worshiping, watch US and you too will be worshiping."

Is. 23:15 And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.


What are the words of the son of the harlot?

Is. 23:16 Take an [1] harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten;
[2] make sweet [3] melody, [3] sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.


Notice that it takes four terms to indicate singing and playing instruments: the Apostates claim that psallo COMMANDS playing and singing THEIR "scriptures."

Psallo just means to pluck or smite with the HANDS but never with a Guitar Pick.
If you skillfully pluck your harp like Alexander the Great to seduce a younger males whose hairs have been plucked they you are obviously playing a harp which would not be musical to our ears.

If you pluck a bow string then you intend to kill someone.

The bow as a "one stringed harp" which is plucked (psallo) us used of SING which means to SHOOT FORTH A HYMN.

Psallo a harp string and you make a sound as a note but this does not mean to MAKE MUSIC which the apostates claims permits them to beat of voodoo drums and screech out wind instruments. No one ever thought of psallo as COMMANDING or authorizing the ORGAN which cannot be PLUCKED with the fingers until:

George P. Slade in the 1878 American Christian Review attacked McGarvey's ground of New Testament silence by appealing to psallo. Having examined this approach for many years, McGarvey said in 1895 that anyone taking it "is one of those smatterers in Greek who can believe anything that he wishes to believe. When the wish is father to the thought correct exegesis is like water on a duck's back." Such strictures did not keep Briney from resorting to the argument again a decade later.(18)







 
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Ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Re: Strike Three

December 30 2016, 7:15 PM 

Merriam-Webster : the act or result of explaining or interpreting something : the way something is explained or understood

Webster does not define words used in the Scriptures. epi-lusis excludes all that you intend to do this Sunday.


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
24.151.202.16

Psallo

December 30 2016, 4:01 PM 

Jack Mann: M.C. Kurfees contended that the verb "psallo" changed its meaning near the beginning of the New Testamentera. This confusion was built upon assumption only.

What Mr. Kurfees ASSUMED is what he did not PROVE and those of the non-instrument persuasion are still faced with this impossible task today.


The word PSALLO never had more than one meaning: To pluck or smite a string or hair with your fingers and never with a plecktron or guitar pick. Like many words, a word is defined by how it is used in the original languages.

The stringed instruments are always defined as played with the fingers because the BOW is defined as a one stringed harp. You make a "sound" with a bow and you make a sound with a harp: neither is defined as music. I will post some rebuttal of O.E.Payne as the father of the "psallo" commands MUSIC later but the resources he quotes without ever having read always proves that singing voices were "vile" and discordant (still is) unless the harp is used to set the pitch. They sang TO a harp note.

The bow was and is used much like a Jew's Harp and can be tuned by stretching the string. I have a one stringed lyre with a short board and a batch of fishing line. I have one my dad made from bamboo.

Psallo never in recorded history meant musical melody: it is to accuse God and Paul with being ignorant for not using the Greek word MELOS.

Melody in that world was never and is never tuneful. Those who translated from Hebrew to Greek picked the PSA rooted words for a purpose. Because all of the PSA type words speak to evil deeds and evil people such as the SOP of Judas, it is obvious that people, like popular rock stars, intend to disturb and even hurt you. No one was ever so ignorant that they did not understand that people who could twang on Brass Metal (the serpent parable) could divert your attention long enough to steal your sheep.

As a MARK no one who says that SPEAKING really means SINGING have no intention of singing the Biblical poetic material. The BOOK of psalms contains four different types and Paul would have understood PSALMS as MIZMORS.

Delitzsch, Psalms: The word "psalm", which is derived from the Greek word psalmos, is a translation of the Hebrew term mizmor, which is the title standing at the head of fifty-seven of the psalms. Thus it is evident that not every psalm has the superscription "psalm". But it is this word which has come to be the designation of the whole book.

Only fifty of the mizmors were sung by the Jews and they are not instrumental.

Thus we see that although the one hundred and fifty units are called in the Scriptures the Book of Psalms, only fifty-seven of them bear the superscription psalm (mizmor) in the Hebrew Old Testament. The title which the Book of Psalms bears in Hebrew is Sepher Tehillim - the Book of Praises. It is this Hebrew word tehillim.... In Hellenistic Greek the corresponding word psalmoi' (from psa'llein = zimeer) is the more common; the Psalm collection is called bi'blos psalmoo'n (Luke 20:42; Acts 1:20) or psaltee'rion, the name of the instrument (psanteerîn in the Book of Daniel)

"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with this harp. Source


Proof that Paul was not as ignorant as people want him to be, he did not say "make melody WITH a psaltery."

[linked image]

So, why do all of the preachers go to extremes to make certain that you never "sing" even that which is commanded and exampled?



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 24.151.202.16 on Dec 30, 2016 9:51 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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