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Re: I Knew It

March 18 2007, 5:10 PM 

I think the Christian Church's website gives a good example of what the change is all about:

"A vision for the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

To be a faithful, growing church, that demonstrates true community, deep Christian spirituality and a passion for justice. (Micah 6:8)

To be and to share the Good News of Jesus Christ, witnessing, loving and serving from our doorsteps "to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)


1000 new congregations
1000 TRANSFORMED congregations
The leadership development necessary to realize these new and RE-NEWED congregations
All within a context of being an anti-racist/pro-reconciling church."


And where do they expect these newly transformed congregations to come from? Everyone knows it is NOT 1000 new churches started from the ground up. Which one's are being re-newed? According to some Christian Church members, this number includes the changing and admittance of prior Churches of Christ. What?!

And who was it that said this was all in John Waddey's mind?

By the way, after studying some of the Christian Church's beliefs, I wondered if they had even read the Bible recently. How sad that ANY cofC would think they are close to us in belief, much less to worship together as one religion. A woman president/minister? Recognition of any type of baptism? Free to act as you feel? Are there no limits at this church?

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Ken Sublett
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Suggested ACTION.

October 23 2006, 12:34 PM 

F. LaGard Smith survived at LU after telling everyone to "solve the division problem by firing all of the youth ministers." Like that?

The hireling-changelings love to focus on those things for which churches of Christ have absolute Biblical and almost universal historical authority for:

1. The church is called the church OF Christ. If you want to call it the church of God then note that this is God "who purchased it with HIS OWN blood." That means Jesus Christ. Almost all historical churches identified themselves as THE CHURCH OF CHRIST. The Calvinistd never called themselves Presbyterians or Baptists. Calling yourself a COMMUNITY CHURCH implies that you are the CHURCH OF CHOICE for anyone who wants to HAVE RELATIONSHIPS (The latest FAD to FAKE OUT people). Community means COMMUNE and never doubt that the goal is to TAKE CAPTIVE your mind, money and all of that FREE TIME to give occupation to bonded buddy "family life minister" or "discipling minister."

2. Baptism FOR or in order to the remissions of sin had NO exception until Zwingli in about 1525. Even Zwingli has been maligned. He like everyone says that "baptism DOES NOT SAVE" bur for the "faith only heretics" he and others followed that up with "WITHOUT FAITH.' That is what churches of Christ believe and are literate enough to know that he was not repudiating baptism but the "sprinkling of infants who CANNOT possibly have FAITH." Martin Luther agreed that if you think of SOLA FIDE as "faith only" without qualifications then Zwingli did in fact invent a new thing in history just as Zwingli confused JUSTIFICATION with REGENERATION which modern faith onlys do without EVER knowing that those who "fear God and work righteousness are ACCEPTABLE with God" quoteth Paul. That means that honest and honorable people are ALL considered purified BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST in the same sense that PIGS are not and were never unholy. However, NO ONE will ever find REMISSION OF SINS which does not FOLLOW water baptism. That is where one justified by faith "keeps God's laws, covenant and decrees, as DID ABRAHAM) and is thereby eligible to be baptized IN ORDER to the remission of sins AND the gift of A holy personal spirit which becomes HOLY when God removes the FACT and CONSIOUSNESS of sin which BLINDS one to the Word which IS Spirit and Life. I think that one is NOT a brother until they are BORN of water and spirit, are washed of blood, are swaddled with the garments of Christ and have been ADDED or INDUCTED into the family by the ADOPTING FATHER who gets to define WHO IS MY BROTHER. If you repudiate BAPTISM then no one is your brother or sister because APISTOS means to REVOLT against god and be MARKED as a traitor.

3. The Universal repudiation of "musical forms" and Mechanical Instruments which were the WEAPONS and MARK of a Satanic Bible. This begins in Genesis and ends with Revelation where the "teknokrats" of the Mother of Harlot are performance speakers (Hypocrites), singers,, musicians and TECHNE or CRAFTSMEN which is defined as "theater builders and stage managers." The MILLSTONE was perforated or "polluted" with a hole and therefore a PIPE or FLUTE which made a distinctive "singing" noise which MARKED the public grinder who was a prostitute with her legs spread ready to GRIND (psallo) whatever you needed ground. As in literal Babylon, the STAFF INFECTION included priests, singers, musicians, exorcists and PROSTITUTES. Peter defines those who CORRUPT the Word and "sell learning at retail" as prostitutes or adulterers. There is NO exception to the rule that religiousn musicians did double duty as prostitutes or sodomites who performed the Vineyard (mother Wimber) act of worship called 'HAVING A SEXUAL-LIKE CLIMATIC EXPERINCE WITH THE SPIRIT." The wineskin view of Rubel Shelly is to be exhilarated to MAKE THE SPIRIT COME. He probably does not grasp it but ALL pagans sought to have a literal, visual or auditory ORGASM and "make the gods come." The dominant pastor was the AGENT of the Gods and usually PERFORMED on behalf of the gods or demons. Modern musicians CLAIM to lead you into the presence of God but they all OPEN the door to evil spirits. If you are gyrating with the musicator he/she is universally a member of the "harem of the gods" and you are, according to all of the literature, SUBMITTING yourself to be USED by Satanic spirits.

4. Generally there was, of old, a preaching emphasis on expository teaching of the Word. Song books got polluted but there was a strong emphasis on "sunday school" which is the only part faithful to the Ekklesia but ONLY when they study the Bible as written by the SPIRIT OF CHRIST.

Now, the legalistic, sectarian, hypocrites, fratricidal people are THOSE who added and WILL NOT abandon:

The Law of preaching where EVANGELISTS became located missionaries about the year 1930.

The Law of Giving which violates Paul's Direct Command and historic practice. The BUDGET gave rise to all of the ANTI hate where they kept on NOT doing what they had no authority to do: collect the widows money and DIVERT it to a human institution.

The Law of Singing where Paul commanded the LAW OF SPEAKING that which has been written.

The invasion of the STAFF INFECTION when in fact the local ekklesia has added a STANDING ARMY which doommed Israel and where EKKLESIA has Jesus authorizing a CONTACT MAN but not a 24/7 INSTITUTE which steals from the DESTITUTE.

Now, the changeling-hirelings all at one level or another REPUDIATE that for which we have authority, that which men like Calvin sought to RESTORE, the very CORE of the Restoration Movement and that which can ABSOLUTELY be defended by any honest reader of the Word.

However, they are NOT ABOUT to give up the PERKS which they have voted for themselves like Bandit Boards of Business.

Why do YOU suppose they HATE people still faithful to the CORE of the ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible and LUST to hang on to and ADD TO the trappings of a HUMAN INSTITUTION. I think they are RUNNING TO THE HILLS or "Lookig to the mountain or HILL'S gods" for their salvation. God said that those who LOOK TO THE HILLS are without redemption because they have no spirit or inclination to honor the AUTHOR and FINISHER of the Hills.

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Donnie Cruz
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January 13 2007, 9:25 PM 


Dear Brethren:

The church I love and have been a member of or most of my adult years is facing momentous challenges. Powerful forces are at work to change her faith, worship and practice. God being my helper, I am determined to remain loyal to his Word and never be a party to this effort to abandon the way of Christ for that of men.

To help me where you stand and to satisfy my mind, would you do my the kindness of answering the following questions?

  • Is there anything about our worship that you think needs major change? If so what?

  • Do you believe that the concept of restoring the faith and practice of the early church is biblical, practical and workable in the 21st century?

  • Do you believe that the use of instrumental music in the worship of the church is (a) sinful? (b) optional? (3) a matter of opinion? (4) scriptural? (5) don't know?

  • Are there any situations when the congregation is assembled for worship, when a Christian woman can lead a prayer? lead singing? teach a Bible class in the presence of men? present a Bible lesson to the congregation? serve as a deacon, an elder, or minister of a congregation? If so please explain.

  • Are there any circumstances where a sinner can expect to have his sins forgiven prior to baptism?

  • Is it acceptable to teach that we are saved by grace alone or faith alone?

  • In your opinion, is there any sense in which this congregation or the body of people known as Churches of Christ is a denomination?

  • Should we participate in such interdenominational activities as the Billy Graham Crusades?

  • Do you feel it is acceptable for a congregation to use soloists, special singing groups or choirs to enhance its song worship?

  • Must one be a member of the church of Christ in order to be saved?

  • Are their any mistakes, contradictions or flaws in the Bible?

  • Does the Old Testament as well as the New Testament govern our Christian faith and worship?

  • How should faithful Christians respond if those promoting these and other changes should begin to advocate them in their home congregation?

John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now


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Donnie Cruz
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“NEED AND NEED NOT” (by John Waddey)

March 18 2007, 2:56 AM 

Dear Christian Readers:

Today's lesson discusses two kinds of teachers. One the church needs and the other she does not need. While there is a shortage of those she needs, there are too many of the latter category. If you find this lesson helpful I urge you to forward it to other Christians in your email address book. Make copies to share with others where you worship. Only truth will make us free and keep us free from the bondage of error. You can play an important part in this effort.

In Christ,

—John Waddey



There are things we all need and numerous things we need not. Everyone needs food but no one needs a tourist trip into space. The same is true of the Lord's church.

  • She needs gospel preachers who are capable of teaching the Word of God to those in and out of the church.

  • She needs men whose hearts burn with evangelistic zeal. She needs men who see lost nations and feel compelled to go preach the saving gospel to them (Rom. 1:14-15). Others will be driven to teach God's Word here at home. They do so not because they have a contract and are paid but because they feel it to be their personal duty to do so (I Cor. 9:16).

  • She needs men who are church planters and builders who extend and strengthen her borders (I Cor. 3:6).

  • She needs men who love Christians and congregations and work for their welfare as a gentle nurse would do (I Thess. 2:7); men who like Christ, are physicians of souls (Mark 2:17).

  • She needs men who love the Bible as God's Word. They treat it with reverence and respect. They feast on its contents and teach others to do the same. They feed the flock of God on its pleasant and healthy diet, fully confident that it will provide them all things pertaining to life and godliness (II Pet. 1:3).

  • She needs men who are amassing a broad and extensive knowledge of God's Word and those subjects that help in correctly understanding it. They have studied all of the sixty-six sacred books. They can answer the Bible questions people raise. They can point questioners to the chapter and verse that they need.

  • She needs men whose education and experience are sufficiently broad that they can understand the times and provide leadership for the church in the midst of confusion. Such men can discern not only the good and the bad, but they can perceive that which and is not expedient for the situations we face.

  • She needs men who can defend the Bible, church and her faith from those who attack or pervert them. In every generation there are anti-Christian teachers whose clamorous attacks must be refuted. There are sectarians who attack and slander Christ's church. There are false teachers within the church whose mouths must be stopped (Tit. 1:11).

  • She needs men who can apply Scripture to problems that arise from time to time. Each generation raises new questions about means and methods of doing God's work. As society and culture change, new questions confront Christians. As technology introduces new procedures and inventions into our world, she must have men to help assess them and our response to them.

Such men as these the church has needed from the day of her birth. She needs them if she exists among a poor backward people or if she is in the intellectual capital of the world. With them, she will flourish and grow strong. Without them she will wither and die.

There is a certain kind of scholar the church does not need. These are men who view the Bible as an inanimate thing to be analyzed in the same way geologists study rocks or art critics study paintings. (We speak not of Textual Criticism, a legitimate discipline that labors to secure a biblical text as near as possible to the original inspired documents). We have in mind scholars who are described as "higher critics." They approach the Bible from a rationalistic point of view. The church really has no need for them. In fact, she is much better off without them.

  • Such scholars ask questions that 99.99 percent of Christians never ask. They spend a lifetime searching for answers no one but them and their kind care about.

  • Such men tend to look at the Bible and the church with detachment like the owner of a salvage yard looks at old cars.

  • They view the Scripture as something imperfect on which they feel qualified to pass judgment. They pour over its words and phrases, culling and rejecting bits and pieces, leaving it like a puzzle with numerous pieces missing.

  • For many of them scripture study is a way to make a living and a name for themselves, rather than instruction for spiritual self-improvement and winning the lost to Christ.

  • When they teach the Bible, it is not to instill faith and obedience to its precepts, rather, they seek to convince their students that it is not the perfect message they (students) thought it was upon entering the university. They raise questions about its origin, its integrity and harmony. They offer novel concepts of inspiration. In the end, the student may well be persuaded the Bible cannot be taken seriously as the Word of God.

  • Such scholars view the Bible as an ancient curiosity, but not as the power of God to salvation, not as the constitution of the church, not as a divine tool to save lost human or to edify and build up the church or to comfort the suffering or console the dying.

  • As they pursue their work, they often mask and hide their true beliefs and purposes from Christians whose financial support pays their salaries and provides their facilities.

  • Such men seem to be drawn to Christian Schools to do their work. History reveals that they have infiltrated and eventually captured virtually every seminary and Bible department of every mainline Protestant denomination. A century ago they did the same in all the schools operated by churches of the American Restoration Movement. Now we see them ensconced in some of our schools.

Such men the church does not need! If she had not one of them, she would suffer no loss. She would be better off because she would not have to worry if her young preachers have had their faith in God's Word corrupted by such men as they pursued their education in a Christian School!

John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now


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John Waddey
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November 12 2007, 12:36 PM 

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf of John Waddey
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 5:07 PM
Subject: [fortify_your_faith] A Lesson to Fortify Your Faith - 11/10/07

Dear Readers:

Today's lesson is a parable describing tragic events that are presently occurring in many congregations of the church throughout the country. Awareness of the danger should make us more vigilant to guard our congregations, and more determined to keep the false teachers at bay who would harm the Lord's church. Please share this lesson with others.

—John Waddey



    Mr. Jerry Jensen* died today after a longer period of illness. Seven years ago Jerry first experienced symptoms of disease. For four years he insisted that nothing was wrong. He refused to see a doctor. When the symptoms grew more serious he finally visited a physician, but he rejected the prescribed treatment and refused to take the medicine. He believed he could overcome his problem by prayer, positive thinking and vitamins. As the disease progressed, Jerry's friends and family tried in vain to persuade him to submit to the doctor's directions. They could see the deterioration in Jerry, but he insisted he was getting better. His friends at the health club insisted he was looking good. Last month Jerry collapsed. They rushed him to the emergency room and found his body was riddled with cancer. His physician gravely informed him the situation was now beyond treatment. He only had a few months to live. Jerry inquired about surgery. He was ready to take the medicine, anything the doctor prescribed. Unfortunately Jerry had waited too late. He wanted to live, but he died today. Cancer killed him but neglect was a contributing cause.

    Last Sunday the Pleasant Meadows Church of Christ* expired. The congregation was 68 years old and in good health until three years ago. Upon the retirement of Bro. B. J. Perkins,* their former minister, the elders sought out a young man who had received his education at a Christian university with a degree in Ministry and Church Growth. Within six months the first symptoms of trouble appeared. The new minister was determined to change just about everything about the church. When some of the members approached him he was indignant and suggested that they had a problem. The elders seemed to be under the preacher's spell. Strong families began leaving for other congregations. Many new folks began attending who seemed to know or care little about the Bible. Some of the deacons resigned as did two of the older elders. Bro. Perkins met with the elders and tried to explain what was happening. He warned them of the danger he saw. The young preacher insisted he was jealous of his success. He was meddling in things not of his concern. After a series of lessons on traditions and legalism, the youth group began using a guitar in their devotionals. A few months later instruments were allowed in the midweek classes. The young man insisted that women had been unfairly restricted and he began to call on them for public prayers. Soon they were making announcement and serving communion. He poked fun at the name Church of Christ and called those who insisted it was a biblical name "Church of Christers." He exchanged pulpits with a Christian Church minister and dismissed their evening services so all could attend the city-wide campaign with other Evangelical churches.

    Last Sunday the disease reached crisis proportions. At the morning worship hour, the preacher announced that after much prayer and fasting the elders and he had decided that the ladies would be allowed to teach the mixed adult bible classes and speak to the assembly on special occasions. Also, effective next month, the congregation's name would be changed to Community Church of Grace. A piano was being installed to assist their singing. Half of the congregation left, vowing never to return. Two additional elders resigned after their protests were rejected. The Pleasant Meadows Church of Christ breathed its last breath. The group now meeting in its facilities is, for all intents and purposes, a Christian Church. Many tears were shed by those who had known the church in days past. Early treatment might have saved both Jerry and the church.


    John Waddey
    * The names of the individuals and the church are fictitious.

John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now


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Donnie Cruz
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Thread Bumped for Review

December 16 2010, 12:03 AM 

"Beware of the Change Agents' Subtle But Hostile Takeover of Your Congregation!!!"

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

Thread Bumped for Our Refreshing

December 25 2011, 2:23 AM 

"Beware of the Change Agents' Subtle But Hostile Takeover of Your Congregation!!!"

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

The many heads of the Change Agents

January 7 2012, 5:59 PM 

[linked image]
The "progressives" have jumped back to Babylon which is prophesied in detail in Revelation 17-18. If John calls the speakers, singers and instrument players SORCERERS who will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire and the Levite PATTERNS are called Soothsayers with instrumental accompaniment, one might think that any honest friend of Jesus would see the red flag and ask a few questions. Instead, they try to censure and censor you.

The Jews have always thought of themselves as superior and everyone else dogs. That is strange since the Hebrews got their start in "Iraq" as robbers of caravans. While no one can find any reason for such superiority in the Old Testament, they are on the prowl again with Messianic Judaism and the Hebraic Roots heresy.

That permits the musical banditos to use the LEVITES as a pattern for a musical worship team, simple simon who can define words sees that they are Sorcerers with Instruments. They have a virulant attitude toward the New Testament especially Paul whom they see as a demon or adevil.

Bobby Valentine Marcionism and Churches of Christ--ignoring the Bible--tries to find some reason to attack churches of Christ for not using the Old Testament for Christian Doctrine. That may be one of the most powerful change weapons because pseudo scholars and minted preachers make a profession out of irnoring the Prophets which is the only voice of the Spirit OF Christ.

Bobby Valentine is one of the small gang of "progressives" who works overtine to repudiate churches of Christ. The latest is to claim that churches of Christ do not teach doctrine/theology of the Hebrew Bible.

I believe that ignorance of the Godly versus the ungodly threads in the Old Testament accounts for som many of the Minted Preachers tending to attack when you deny that God commanded that which Scripture clearly says GOD ABANDONED THEM to do without redemption.

I think that the most violent CHANGERS are actually preachers or elders in conservative churches; they do not have the power or courage to try to force the change in THEIR congregations so the wimpy off to blogs and anti-church colleges to try to spread their poison and are able to protect their pigtails from getting dipped into the inkwell: very cowardly.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jan 7, 2012 6:04 PM

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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