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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Make them prophets?

March 2 2012, 11:08 PM 

It is a fact that most people in the "business" have no respect for God or His Word: why should you when Max Lucado got a vision, Rick Atchley had the Spirit tell him to preach all of those lies and Rubel Shelly said we should hear the "audible" voice of God. No telling what people will do when God turns delusions on them to make them fools.

If you can "hear" God without God speaking audibly to you--however whisperery-- you should have not trouble feeding all of the poor and raising the dead.

1Kings 17:20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
1Kings 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this childs soul come into him again.
1Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
1Kings 17:23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son liveth.
1Kings 17:24 And the woman said to Elijah, Now by this I know that thou art a man of God, and that the word of the LORD in thy mouth is truth.

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john watson smityh
(Login johnwatsonsmith)

check current Christian Chronicle winterfest

March 12 2012, 8:03 PM 

Note the reference to the book by Richard Foster "Celebration of Discipline, the Path to Spiritual Growth" is mentioned as a guide for the 12 Disciplines of Christianity. This is on page 20 in connection with some paintings used at the winterfest. The article goes on to say that the 12 disciplines were focused on by the speakers and that other references are made to the book also. Richard Foster is considered a mystic and a heretic of the first order by many - he is also a promoter of Thomas Merton.

Comments welcome

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: check current Christian Chronicle winterfest

March 12 2012, 9:42 PM 

I quizzed my granddaughter who went to winterfest: I think most who attend do so for the entertainment value. She was upset because there waa no "spiritual content."

Here is the Christian way to grow.

1Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

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(no login)

Be Beware!

March 12 2012, 11:41 PM 

Ken Sublett said "I quizzed my granddaughter who went to winterfest: I think most who attend do so for the entertainment value."

You think????

Listen to this....
Its a powerful experience seeing 6,000 teens just opening up and praising God together, said Forrest Park, 15, a member of the Nashua Church of Christ in New Hampshire. Also, the speakers are just phenomenal with such wisdom and knowledge that one can really learn from.

Ken, does that sound like someone attending Winterfest for the entertainment value? That was a quote from a teen from this year's program.
Even if you had seen that before you still would have said what you did. You just don't care anymore. Your heart is beyond cold and callous. John W. Smith....stick around and believe me, you will be on that same wicked path.

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ken sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Be Beware!

March 13 2012, 5:25 PM 

Praise Leaders or Pimps?

Opening up and praising God sounds like my experiences around the old rugged tower of Babel. We had to bring all of our product to the tower and they handed out new raw materials or assignment. They told us that if we went to the top where the collection plates and god's agent lived we would meet gods and angels climbing up and down as we did our praise services.

Praise means "I gotta help the gods so they don't fail me AGAIN." Praise leaders were the "world's oldest profession." Yep! the oldest. But then the praise leaders or Encomiasts often did double duty. As the Brides in Revelation 18 who performed the Heiros Gamos to plant the seed for the gods.

If you can listen to Patrick Mead for more thant 15 seconds I am going to send the gender police to haul you away. He, like all of the deliberately musical deceivers, is pretty ignorant of the Bible but as long as the speaker is "ambidextrous" he will fit in with the rest of the "sworn to change team" wo always shows up. Patrick was their in 2001 or maybe before.

Now,consistent with the Babylon and Jerusalem Akitu

The people were singing all kinds of songs. Three of them can be reconstructed: a frivolous hymn to the goddess of sexuality and love Itar, a song in which Marduk's father Enlil was ridiculed as a god in the gutter, and an antiphonal hymn in which the gods were asked why they were not in their temples and replied that they had to be with Marduk.

"Praise" is always ridiculing God who needs their help. In fact,just as at Babylon the Winterfest is a COMMERCIAL organization more fruitful than the others which tried: Jubilee, Tulsa, etal. The 'praise' songs are often erotic where males try to make love to god and that just turns the preachers on.

[linked image]
[linked image]

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(no login)


March 13 2012, 9:13 PM 

Speakers can be quite entertaining...and manipulative. A really sharp, crafty speaker can lure a large crowd of highly impressionable teens into believing just about anything that s/he wants them to believe. The intense excitement of being all together and singing rock "praise" music could very well give those teens the false sense of a so-called "religious experience" and a false sense of "faith." "Beware" or "be wary" (not "be beware") of mass meetings that use hype, heightened emotions, and histrionics to create or boost "faith."

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(no login)

"B" Being "B" Beware!

March 13 2012, 11:51 PM 

I think Winterfest has been around for some 26 years now. Everything I read about it is positive. Why make it an issue if it is not one?

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(no login)


March 14 2012, 12:17 AM 

If people are gullible enough, they'll believe anything. Of course everything you read about Winterfest is gonna be "positive." Even the folks at Jonestown thought everything was "positive" while they drank that "special" Kool-Aid. Their leader told 'em so and they bought it--as well as the farm.

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(no login)

Re: "B" Being "B" Beware!

March 14 2012, 1:24 PM 

So "B" has an analogy that draws a parallel between Winterfest and Jonestown. That is something "B" can take up with the Lord. I am done here.

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(no login)

Ho Ho Hohenwald

March 14 2012, 11:17 PM 

Me too......if you want to do lunch while I am at Madison Donnie, you know our website and you have my email.

Let's talk. Maybe you could contact William "B" Crump and we could all get together. I'm willing.

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(no login)


March 15 2012, 11:59 AM 

Dave, I wouldn't want to invite myself but I would like to have lunch with you. I'll be out of town April 1st but otherwise I should be available. If you can get Donnie, B, Rancar and Ken out of Hohenwald it should be one informative lunch. I still sit in the balcony during the second service as I have for the last 39 years. Have a great day.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Patrick Mead

March 15 2012, 1:27 PM 

Patrick Mead and probably all of the "actors" at winterfest have been the early sowers of discord about the use of praise teams and instruments. They all feed on one another: I have pasted a review of Patrick Mead's take on Nadab and Abihu here.

People love to mock the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai which got the older generation of Israel pruned out and Nadab and Abihu which HE claims is the proof text to denounce instruments.

That is a pretty goood proof text but any Bible reader who cares enough to define words will see a flood of God connecting musical instruments in His face to people who tell Him to "shut his face"(Job 21). Nevertheless, the Nadab and Abihu event should be understood by all who want to learn from God even if they don't do dogma.

Patrick and most of the bad actors say that God did NOT command the synagogue and yet people attended synagogue and God did not destroy them. They are badly informed about the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness which outlawed "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" including loud elevated forms of speech: When disciples go to the School of Jesus christ we do not need anyone to command us to sit down and shut up.

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(no login)

Grow up.

April 19 2012, 1:06 AM 

So, let me get this straight:
1. David was a musician. Instrumental music was all over the old testament. The psalms say to praise God on instruments. However, all of a sudden they became "wrong" in the new testement? Really. Maybe Jesus just didn't make issues out of things that were not issues. It is pretty absurd to think that God would use it throughout the old testament then forbid it in the new without even saying it. You guys just assume things.
2. So do you remember the time in the bible where some of the disciples came to Jesus and whined because there were OTHER disciples doing things in Jesus' name who were not in "their" group? Um, Jesus didn't care. You have such a problem with anyone outside of your denomination...and YES, the church of Christ IS a denomination. One definition of denomination is, "A name or designation, especially for a class or group." Stop acting like you are "above" a denomination when you are one.
3. So, why is it that you are so offended by giving a preacher the name of "pastor" but you will give men the name "elders" and "decons?" So, it's better to call them "preacher?" Because no one just says "brother." A pastor is just a teacher. Just like a person who fixes a car is a mechanic. Seriously, that is so ridiculous.

You guys put all the emphasis on the wrong things...DOING things. You have no clue that the new testament model for Christianity is not the "church" but Christ. And he did not go around making rules. The new testament believes met together and wanted to be like Christ. You are making a "model" out of something that isn't even there. Your model is Christ, not the new testament church. You are missing the whole point. When Christ is your model, you will see what Jeff and Max have been enlightened to. Until then, you will labor under legalism and you will miss the point completely...although because of God's grace you will be saved ONLY because Jesus died for you, as we all are that believe.

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(no login)

No Rules?

April 19 2012, 10:04 AM 

Janet is under the impression that Jesus "did not go around making rules." Sounds like she's implying that Jeff and Max are telling everyone that anything goes in Christianity, because there are no rules. If Janet will take a closer look at the New Testament, perhaps she will see that Jesus had a different view about "rules."

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 7:21 KJV).

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock" (Matt. 7:24 KJV).

"And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand" (Matt 7:26 KJV).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15 KJV).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love" (John 15:10 KJV).

Jesus through Paul: "And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" (2 Thess. 1:7-9 KJV).

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Heb. 5:8-9 KJV).

Clearly, Jesus commands us to OBEY Him in order to be saved. Jesus will save us ONLY if we yield to Him and OBEY HIS RULES that He set forth in the New Testament. When we obey Him, we DO something. Yet Janet implies that Christianity is not about DOING (hence, not about obedience): "You guys put all the emphasis on the wrong things...DOING things." Janet might as well have said, "You guys put all the emphasis on the wrong things...OBEDIENCE." Is Christianity then only sitting back and thinking pleasant, happy thoughts and romantic ideas about Jesus? That's what it comes down to when you remove the DOING/OBEDIENCE from the picture. Apparently that's what the highly misguided New Age gurus are teaching.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

No: we are trying to STOP the EXTRA DOING using legalistic MACHINES.

April 19 2012, 3:16 PM 

So, let me get this straight:
1. David was a musician. Instrumental music was all over the old testament. The psalms say to praise God on instruments. However, all of a sudden they became "wrong" in the new testement? Really. Maybe Jesus just didn't make issues out of things that were not issues. It is pretty absurd to think that God would use it throughout the old testament then forbid it in the new without even saying it. You guys just assume things.

No, David was a King: God gave them kings in His anger and took them away in His anger: because of musical idolatry of the always pagan trinity at Mount Sinai God gave them the LAW and sentenced them to Babylon for captivity and destruction." There was no "music" in the tuneful sense until Calvin etal had Psalms RADICALLY rewritten and set to a simple meter for UNISION singing only."

Christ ordained the synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness as the ONLY assembly of the settled people. JESUS defines and endorses the synagogue (Paul's word for come together, assemble or gather). Paul EXCLUDES all of the performing arts and defines the assembly as ONLY "to use one mind and one mouth" to "speak that which is written for our LEARNING." (Rom 15). Now a Christian is a disciple and disciples do not DO religious observations: they go to BIBLE class.

God turned the Civil-Military-Clergy complex over to worship the starry hosts--that includes Abaddon the agent in Revelation which USES the worship teams which John calls "lusted after fruits" and "Sorcerers." Then, in agreement with Christ in Isaiah 30 John consigns them to be cast alive into the lake of fire."

David was a bloody-handed warrior and never a worship leader. The praise songs are WARRIOR'S TAUNTS that promise (from Horus in Egypt onward) that the enemy will be robbed, raped and raptured. The Levites who prophesied with instruments were SOOTHSAYERS ordained to warn that any godly, not-abandoned person who came NEAR was to be executed. The Musical Promoters are performing WITCHCRAFT which means any external means (aids) to the Word of Christ in the prophets and apostles.

God did not command the Monarchy, monarch (king), temple, animal sacrifices or the NOISE which is defined as EXORCISM as in all pagan sacrificial systems. God considered the blood and flesh lust He abandoned the Jews to as MURDER of His innocent creatures. Anyone who has the vision of the universal Spiriit of the universe being appeased or threatened is called blasphemy."

[linked image]

Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle (seven spirits of knowledge Isaiah 11) shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy SORCERERS were all nations deceived.
Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

There is not a jot or tittle or shard of pottery that a majestic DAVID ever lived or that Solomon's grand temple ever existed. God in Christ even facilitated the destruction of Herod's Temple which was operated by hirelings. Not one stone on top of another stone. You should flee Babylon as every single baptized believer did. Go! Quickly.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: No: we are trying to STOP the EXTRA DOING using legalistic MACHINES.

April 19 2012, 8:34 PM 

Now, Janet, I am really sorry that most of us have been taken captive by men trained in making songs and sermons. I don't believe that there is any one on the "scholar" or "preacher" level who becomes a disciple along with all of the rest of a local assembly. The most conservatives insist--and will hurt you--if you deny that God COMMANDED the use of Instrumeental Music under the "olden law" as worship.

First, God did NOT COMMAND anything reported by the unlawful Scribes of the unlawful kings and priests.

Second, there is nothing remotely similar to our understanding of Music in the whole Bible. Music almost demands making your voices sound together while making all of your body parts move together in what they called "dancing."

There is no command, example or remote inference that God's people ever congregated for congregational singing with or without instruments.

The Bible is filled with God connecting machines that made a ringing, clanging or twanging noises with people intending to tell God that they had no intention of listening to His Words.

I can probably use the word ALWAYS to say that ALL singing (falsetto, effeminate) words and all names of "machines for doing hard work" with people INTENDING to mess with your basic God-made structure to FORCE you to believe what they were telling you are standing numb as they fleeced your lambs.

The PRAISE word used by DAVID was intended to emotionally disable the enemies.

[linked image]

Do you want to follow the Levites (soothsayers) under the KING and COMMANDERS of the Army or do you want to follow the spiritual ANTIthesis of Jesus Christ Who as far as we know SPOKE A hymn (prayer) once in his life and which would not be repeated until the next Passover.

I don't have the slightest reason to believe that you will believe that: Jesus speaks to the TWOS AND THREES who come OUT of the groups and spoke parables or truth hidden in PLAIN sight to the staff of any institution insisting that you pay THEM for the free word Jesus died to reveal to THOSE OF FAITH and those OF TRUTH. Jesus came to seek and save the LOST: I think that might be "lost spirits" living in a PURELY FLESH people Jesus and Peter called a CROOKED RACE and John called A RACE OF VIPER. Too simple for the beasts and vipers to grasp.

Leviticus 25:23 The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is mine;
.....for ye are strangers and sojourners with me.
Nehemiah 9:2 And the seed of Israel separated themselves from all strangers,
.....and stood and confessed their sins,
.....and the iniquities of their fathers.
Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises,
.....but having seen them afar off,
.....and were persuaded of them, and embraced them,
.....and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
1Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims,
.....abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Only the tiny remnant (many are called but few are chosen) will hear and obey the son to the extent that He reveals the Father to us. Those who are so added to the church are added to a heavenly kingdom which earthlings CANNOT see or organize. That tiny remnant does not DO religious observation but attend A school (only) of Christ (only).

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners,
.....but fellowcitizens with the saints,
.....and of the household of God;

1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones,
.....are built up a spiritual house, holy priesthood, offer up spiritual sacrifices,
.....acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

That would be a tiny remnant of Jews who had not bowed to Baal and then Gentiles. All would be united in a HEAVENLY kingdom

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Feb 15, 2013 12:10 AM

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Ken Sublettt
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: No: we are trying to STOP the EXTRA DOING using legalistic MACHINES.

January 27 2013, 9:18 PM 

There is some good data on Winterfest. It is true that when these illiterates and ethically deprived people boast that they are taking YOUR youth to these festivals where there is lots of musical bands WE TAUGHT YOUR CHILDREN TO LEAVE OUR MOVEMENT.

Now, it seems, that Jeff Walling has done enough fiddling around at Providence that they have a CONTEMPORARY Instrumental service. Hey, at least 2000 years before Moses warned the Israelites who had been TURNED OVER TO WORSHIP THE STARRY HOST and sent on their way "beyond Babylon" (land of no return) the towers of Babel had priests, sorcers, prophets, singers, instrument players and prostitutes. They forced you to pay them a TITHE of your earnings so that they could "lead you into the god's presence."

Now, old Jeff walling has finally caught up with CLAY TABLETS and Lucifer whom the spirit OF Christ called "the singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden."

"Progressive" you are a wonderful sight to behold: according to prophecy the TAIL is finally bitten by the HEAD and it devours itself.

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Ken Sublettt
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: No: we are trying to STOP the EXTRA DOING using legalistic MACHINES.

January 27 2013, 9:39 PM 

I just found an old faithsite when we were discussing Jeff Wallings' apparent direct message about USING women and musical instrument.

Jeff Walling Mockingly:We like havin a map. Don't tell me follow you, just give me a map.

Some of us think he did, that this is a diagnostic tool.
I don't need the leading of the Lord,
I've got the Scriptures.
It is my substitute for the leading of the Lord.

When people have the LORD LEADING them to call recorded history and Paul liars for saying that women MUST NOT take the lead in the assembly, then and now we see the outbreak of feminine and effeminate "worship teams" claiming to Lead you into the presence of God" or "standing in the holy place CLAIMING the role only Jesus received." That is assuredly the END time prophecy.

Anyone who CLAIMS that the Lord is LEADING THEM to add instrumental music is blaspheming the Holy Spirit of Christ who repudiated all forms of hypocritic performance, Jeffy-like-Buffonery-Rhetoric, performance singing or playing instruments. He INTENDS to use psychologial violence so that YOU dare not question what the LORD told Jeff Walling and all if the WinterPest leaders.

John Calvin whom they use for this nonesense says that anyone who hears the Spirit outside of the Word is a FANATIC and yet whole Staff Infections and elders spread hate all over you for telling the truth.

I will try to collect my notes and post it to prove that anyone who HEARS the word and denigrates Scripture as the only way WE have to test His claim, is in danger of being Cast Alive into the lake of fire as John promised the singers, players, and ALL religious teknokrats sucking blood from widows.

The COMMAND is to "teach that which HAS BEEN TAUGHT." The Pastor-Teachers are the TEACHERS. Since they DISMISS Scripture and claim to be GREATER-THAN Jesus they you know that they are in the promised Strongly Deluded stage and believe their own lies because they have tempted God once too often.

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(no login)

Re: Grow up.

February 5 2013, 11:30 PM 

Just Curious Janet, What does it mean to follow the example of Christ? If we follow the example of David we would do things differently. Why do some churches pursue music in their worship? Jesus never used music to minister to people or worship God. Who's example do they follow if they use music?

It would have been very nice for Jesus to have written a book so that we could study his writings, but he did not. What he left us was his example. Mature in the example of Christ, then we truly could learn the meaning of growing up.

Does Jeff and Max make money off their knowledge of Jesus, Just like Judas? They may sell something that has Jesus flavor or they may take a salary from a collection plate. Either way why could they serve people with love and love only? The answer is no, they do not know Jesus if they take one penny from anyone. Jesus was tempted with big cash and he refused. Maybe Jeff and Max could learn the love of God from a Mother Teresa if they can not from Jesus. Either way those men say and write what they do to keep their pay checks, not to save souls.

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(Login Donnie.Cruz)

"Jesus never used music to minister to people or worship God"

February 15 2013, 12:59 AM 


Here's what JESUS said regarding how we are to WORSHIP the FATHER (John 4):

  • [21] JESUS saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
  • [22] Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
  • [23] But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
  • [24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The apostles of Christ did not use music in their "worship" and in spreading the good news of salvation. "Christian Rock" artists (Michael Smith, Twila Paris, et al) and musical bands would have disruptive to the apostles' mission work.

As well as "interactive" comedians such as those employed by the Winterfest organization.

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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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