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WORSHIP FOR SALE—90% OF ALL CHURCH CONFLICTS OVER MUSICAL ISSUES (2)

June 29 2004 at 1:20 AM
Donnie Cruz  (no login)
from IP address 68.19.232.169


Below is Terry Mattingly’s original, unedited article, “Worship for Sale, Worship for Sale.” The direct link to the source is: http://tmatt.gospelcom.net/column/2002/11/06/

________________________________________________________

WORSHIP FOR SALE, WORSHIP FOR SALE

Terry Mattingly's religion column for 11/06/2002



    In the beginning, there were the Jesus People. They had long hair and short memories and they emerged from the 1960s with a unique fusion of evangelical faith and pop culture. They loved fellowship, but didn't like frumpy churches. They trusted their feelings, not traditions. They loved the Bible, but not those old hymnals. So they started writing, performing, recording and selling songs. The Contemporary Christian Music industry was born.

    And, lo, the counterculture became a corporate culture, one that was increasingly competitive and relentlessly contemporary, constantly striving to photocopy cultural trends. Out in the mega-churches, the definition of "worship" changed and then kept changing -- Sunday after Sunday.

    Even though this industry "makes claims for musical diversity among its ranks, it is primarily a reflection of current folk, pop and rock styles," noted veteran pop musician Charlie Peacock, speaking at a recent conference on "Music and the Church" at Baylor University in Waco, Texas. "Even today's successful modern worship music is composed of these and does not have a distinct style of its own."

    The "bandwidth" of worship music today is actually quite narrow, he said, even if black gospel and "urban" music is included. This reality is especially obvious if the industry's products are contrasted with the dizzying array of church music found around the world and across two millennia of history.

    Today, the bottom line is almost always the financial bottom line.

    While believers lead the companies that dominate Christian music, secular corporations now own these smaller companies, noted Peacock. Clearly this is shaping the "Christian" music sold in religious bookstores and mainstream malls. But this corporate culture is also affecting worship and the heart of church life.

    "The industry cannot be expected to always have the best interests of the church in mind," Peacock told nearly 500 scholars, musicians, entrepreneurs and clergy. "Christians within the companies may. But the overriding ideology of the system is to serve the shareholder first." Serving the shareholders means an endless stream of new products, fads and artists -- just like in the secular world. The new always vetoes the old and the saints don't use credit cards or own stock. Thus, CCM is dominated by pop, rock, urban and new worship music. Classical Christian music is below 1 percent on the charts.

    Most worship leaders are trying to blend these radically different musical elements, reported pollster George Barna, describing a survey of Protestant worshippers, pastors and "worship leaders." Sometimes the easiest solution is to have different services for different audiences -- a strategy the Barna Research Group found in three out of four churches. Thus, the GI Generation attends a different service than the upbeat Baby Boomers or the mysterious young faithful of generations X and Y. The result looks something like an FM radio dial.

    "What we know about Americans is that we view ourselves first and foremost as consumers," said Barna. "Even when we walk in the doors of our churches what we tend to do is to wonder how can I get a good transaction out of this experience. ... So, what we know from our research is that Americans have made worship something that primarily that we do for ourselves. When is it successful? When we feel good." And sometimes people feel bad. According to the pastors, only 9 percent of the surveyed churches were experiencing conflict over music. But it's possible to turn those statistics around and note that 90 percent of all church conflicts reported in this study centered on musical issues.

    Is peace possible? Peacock concluded that it will be up to ministers and educators to argue that there is more to worship than the niches on a CCM sales charts. The industry can play a valid role in shaping the content of Christian music, he said, even in "contributing to the congregational music of the church. Still, the industry is at the mercy of a consumer with narrow tastes. Until this changes, it can't possibly function as a definitive caretaker and should not be asked to. "This means that the stewardship of Christian music from the Psalms, to Ambrose, to Bach, to Wesley, to the Fisk Jubilee Singers and more, belongs to the church and the academy."

_____________________________________
Terry Mattingly (www.tmatt.net) teaches at Palm Beach Atlantic University and is senior fellow for journalism at the Council for Christian Colleges & Universities. He writes this weekly column for the Scripps Howard News Service.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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207.69.140.22

RE: Worship for Sale

June 29 2004, 10:21 AM 

Mattingly's quote from George Barna says much about people's worship priorities:

"What we know about Americans is that we view ourselves first and foremost as consumers," said Barna. "Even when we walk in the doors of our churches what we tend to do is to wonder how can I get a good transaction out of this experience. ... So, what we know from our research is that Americans have made worship something that primarily that we do for ourselves. When is it successful? When we feel good."

Barna's words remind me of a statement I once heard from a Southern Baptist pastor in Nashville, TN. Preaching from the pulpit, this pastor remarked that he came to church each Sunday spiritually "drained" from the cares and woes of the previous week and couldn't wait to be "filled up" spiritually for another week! That is, he came to GET spiritually, not to GIVE spiritually. "Worship" for him was a passive experience, in which he showed up and expected God to bless him with good feelings.

Too often our worship priorites are totally fouled up. Worship should be a time when we come to church already completely filled with God's grace (which in itself should create "good feelings") such that we can't wait to pour out our praise and adoration TO HIM. If we let the cares and woes of the previous week rob us of our spirituality, then we are in no frame of mind to worship God in spirit and in truth, and our "worship" is unacceptable. Pure worship is NOT about US, it's totally about denying the self and giving ALL to God.

But today's post-modern churches believe otherwise. Hence, why else would they spend millions to build "worship centers" with "the look and feel of performing arts centers"? Everything there is geared to please the worshipers-consumers, to keep them coming back to consume more entertainment. Where's the "worship" in that?


 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.41

Song Service?

June 29 2004, 1:33 PM 

James Burch asked a question: the answer got lost in the archives. He asked:
What about while singing? June 24 2004, 9:26 PM
Just found this website, after reading discussion, I still need an understanding about clapping during "Song service". Is it appropiate or not.


SONG SERVICE is such a profoundly obscene term that my mind struggles to take it all in. This is not unusual. Remember that Paul told the musical, charismatic Athenians that they needed to graps that "in Him we live, move and have our being." Jesus said I will return to you as "another" Comforter (Anothen means a fuller but different dwelling with and in you). That means that the SPIRIT world exists side by side with the 4 dimensioned physical world. Only to those who believed and were baptized did Jesus promise to sweep out the "demons" and make our spirit A holy spirit. Then and only then is it possible to see as obvious that which religion as the grandest "cottage industry" will kill you for saying out loud. The total message is that it is music which blinds the eyes and plugs the ears "lest they should hear, repent and be healed."

FIRST: SONG

Remember that the passage which the "religious" world cannot grasp is that Paul said SPEAK to "one another." Or in Colossians, Teach and Admonish one another. In Romans 15 Paul defined a SYNAGOGUE which is exactly what Jesus died to build: there was no praise or song service in the synagogue. In chapter 15, he solved all of the DIVERSITY issues by telling the Romans to use ONE MOUTH and ONE MIND to speak "that which is written." Speak in Ephesians 5 is PREACH and not SING.

Jesus said that God only SEEKS those who worship in the PLACE of the human spirit. The spirit is the mind is the heart. Because Paul had been taught by Christ as Spirit he understood. However, like Jesus and warned about by Peter, Paul spoke in clear as God's light can make it, but in language which cannot be grasped even as in a dull mirror. As the speaking is external for the purpose of teaching and comforting by the Spirit of Christ which is the Word of Christ (John 6:63), both the singing and melody is in the HEART where, in Col 3:16, it exercises GRACE which is the "divine enfluence on the heart."

Paul said SPEAK in the external sense. Especially in the Greek, when you speak metrical material using the normal inflections of the language, you ARE singing in the cantillation sense. However, odeing, like melody in the external sense create panic (under the influence of Pan, the beast of Revelation) has a destrutive result.

Aeidô to sing, Il., etc.:--then of any sound, to twang, of the bowstring, Od.; to whistle, chant.

Sing and praise are two different words. Aeido includes Tollo Latin raise up consume in speech making. This is why MUSICA and EXEGESIS has the same goal and effect

Aeido is used with TETTIX which is the locust of Revelation. "The male makes a chirping or clicking noise by means of certain drums or 'tymbals' underneath the wings." This has the same meaning as HAND CLAPPING. "It is a simile for sweet sound made by the Mousôn prophêtai. These are the locusts or musicians of Revelation 18:22. Modern teams confess to being MUSICIANS, they claim that their songs are inspired and claim that they can "lift you into the presence of God." That is, they claim to be God the Messiah. Therefore, at just the right time, they rose from the netherworld and are the locusts under Abaddon. Find the fella who promoted musical worship teams and you have your APOLLYON.

Aeido has the same meaning as aeirô. It means "to lift up for ONESELF, raise or LEVY a tax -- TITHING to raise or stir up, to undertake a long war. Metaphor to be lifted up, excited. Words such as enthusiam derive ONLY from "Enthu O mania"

These words include the word HERESY. A heretic or sectarian is not one who chooses not to be FORCED into using instruments. A heretic is one who CHOOSES to take or lift up or carry away YOUR "house." His weapons are MUSIC to arouse you with SINGING in the external sense. This is to STING you with the locust tails which have scorpion venum. This is why both in the Old and New Testament God promised to build a "house" in the hearts of mankind and not a mega-temple dedicated to Circe. Remember the STING or MARK: the use music and excitement to DRIVE AWAY those with the mark of the Word and Baptism. They hold captive the HERETICS in the "house" they have stolen. If you can find a church which is guilty then you have the high seat in the "theatron" or spectacle of the prophesied end times.

SERVICE

External oiding, melodia or Cantus carry the idea of creating excitement or panic. ALL musical terms and names of instruments send the MARK of Lucifer's attempt to BLEED OFF worship for herself.

SERVICE of the Levitical "singers" spokeof HARD BONDAGE related to that of Abaddon. The same is true. Music or the Muses including all fine arts were under the control of Apollo or Apollyon.

The only EXTERNAL odeing and playing as minstrels in the New Testament speak of the polluted and polluting minstrels. Jesus CAST them out more violently than I had previously grasped.

Jesus built an ekklesia which is synagogue in the Greek. This was a school of the Bible and a place of prayer. It held several open sessions through the week and was a place were you could find a scholar who would teach you the Word of God. It is a fact that at the time of Jesus males at 5 were entered into synagogue schools (under males for heaven's sake) while the girls were schooled in skills needed for their roles. In German they called church SKUL.

If you find a School of welding or Cosmotology being overwhelmed by a band of singing and clapping juveniles, and it improves the EDUCATION, then I might change my mind. If you would not insult the instructor then think about what you are TRYING to do to God.

So far, God has let me see this fact and you cannot comprehend the violence heaped on the heads of anyone who declares, "But the king HAS no clothes." If this was NOT true then some scholar would tell you that he has a speck of evidence that the Christian Synagogue has any AUTHORITY or NEED for music. They could surely find a sentence which does not have the SPIRIT 100% of the time saying that music and the names of instruments used to AROUSE people with song or speech is NOT deliberately STINGING them so that they CAN NO LONGER hear the Word. Remember also that if you could get people to comprehend that AROUSAL services are evil, the whole SUPERSTRUCTURE, [T. Campbells word], would come tumbling down. And as surely as God speaks through His word it WILL HAPPEN and with its contribution to the GNP the ride on the back of the whore will end and a great, fatal depression will hit the world.

Hand clapping speaks of the confused MALES making DRUMS or CYMBALS out of their "cupped hands" which are identical to the "cupped cymbals" of Paul's warning that instruments speak of WARFARE or someone trying to CONVERSE with the angels: the claim of musical worship teams.

More later. Ken

 
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Lawrence N. Bennett
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170.141.109.33

re: Song Service? and Re: re: Worship for Sale

June 30 2004, 3:04 PM 

I do believe that many people are entering the doors of the church to make "themselves" "feel" better. I also believe that "if" our worship is geared as closely as possible to the examples in the Bible, "We" will "feel" better. The Bible is not just for life after death, it is also for life before death. I once heard Bruce White make a statement like that.

The "singing" of the worship service is to help steer our mind/heart/spirit. It is a very good thing when done with the spirit of the assembly gathered in mind. It is to help us focus our concentration on our purpose for being there. It is "not" just to charge our batteries or to give us a reason to come watch and listen. It is all about "Participation", from the congregation, directed toward God.

If we are "friendly", "humble" and "loving" to one another, "unified" in "Spirit" and "Truth" which means without un-necessary earthly props or physical stimulations, we (as/in a congregation) "will" all "feel" better, have "peace" and be closer to God.

Col. 3:2 "Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth."

3:23 "And whatever you do, do it heartily as to the Lord and not to men."

Larry


 
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H.Roberson
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64.42.137.168

Clapping - Bennett

June 30 2004, 2:06 PM 

Brother Bennett,

If clapping is physical because you must use your body to do it, then singing is physical. We must use our vocal chords to sing. Reviewing a song in one's mind is not singing.

We can review a song in our minds, we can mentally assent to something, but in order to outwardly express anything, we must use our physical bodies. There is no difference between physically singing and physically clapping - in either from where they arise or the fact that they can both express a spiritual response from the person.

Physical singing is what is envisioned in Scripture; not silently reviewing a song. The Bible anticipates physical worship, not mental exercises.

The voice is used as a physical instrument to reflect a spiritual prompt. Clapping can be the same.

However, clapping can be used as can our bodies, to register agreement with something that occurs or that we become aware of during an assembly. In those cases, it need not be a spiritual response at all.

H.Roberson
--------------
Brother Hoyt,
You can sing, say amen, pray or a variety of other things in your heart or mind, but to clap, you must use your physical body. That makes it physical. If you clap in your mind, it's really not clapping.

I am a musician, and to play an instrument, I must use my physical body. The instrument has no spirit of its own and even if I use my spirit to bring life to it, it still, has no spirit. If I play the instrument in my mind, the instrument is really not being played.

When you clap, you are using your physical body as an instrument which is not of/in your spirit but where your spirit as well as the spirit of God resides.

Thanks,
Larry

 
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Lawrence N. Bennett
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170.141.109.33

Re: Clapping - Bennett

July 1 2004, 12:58 PM 

Mr. Roberson,
Even though you use your vocal cords to sing, the music is coming from your spirit/mind. You "can" sing in your spirit or mind without even making a sound. It may not be singing to "you", if you don't hear it, but nevertheless we can all do this. Whether or not you are "Reviewing" a song in your mind or using your vocal cords to project the tones is not the point. Singing is the only form of music that is "internal" to your spirit. Clapping, Dancing, Playing an instrument, Eating, Drinking, etc., etc. are "external" and things that your "Spirit" MUST use external devices, including your body, to practice or participate in. More often than not, such things are a detriment to true spiritual worship.

Since we are talking about clapping, and comparing it to singing, I will just re-affirm that clapping is not music at all and it is an agitating sound that is a disruption to the Bond of Peace. Ephesians 4:1-6.

The Bible does 'not' anticipate physical worship! If you go back to the old testament maybe, but we now have a better way, the Spiritual way led by the perfect, 'sinless' high priest "Hebrews 9:11", the lamb of God. John 1:29

We "do not" need to show our agreement to anything earthly when we worship. We need only to show our gratefulness and appreciation to God for "everthing", and the only way to do this, according to Jesus, is in "Spirit" and "Truth".

Anything external to your spirit is, artificial to your spirit. Artificial basically means Man-Made. That, it seems to me, would make it un-true to God since God is Spirit.

Anyone want to call it Legalistic? That's ok with me.

L. N. Bennett

 
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H.Roberson
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64.42.137.168

Re: Clapping - Bennett

July 1 2004, 3:23 PM 

Larry,

Whoa....

If Scripture does not anticipate physical worship, pray tell, what were those Christians doing when they met together? What did Jesus do when he sang a song with his disciples?

Did all these folks sit around silently? Hardly - they engaged their physical bodies to sing - out loud. It is anticipated that we will sing out loud - to one another. Our singing is physical. Singing is singing, not reviewing a song. Is there some definition somewhere that would define singing - as we practice it in our assemblies - as remaining silent?

If we assume that Jesus, his disciples, and the early church sang out loud, would we not be remiss to define singing as remaining silent?

I guess I just don't understand your thought process that allows our spirit to use one part of our bodies to sing and doesn't allow us to use other parts of our bodies to clap. The starting point is the same, and they both result in physical activity.

You have stated before that in your opinion, clapping isn't appropriate in an assembly (although you've wavered on that at least once). Given that you know your opinion is only your opinion, you continue to adamantly argue that clapping in an assembly is not permissable and you would never attend a place that allows it.

I have difficulty with your knowing it is your opinion, even though you've admitted it isn't sin, and your extreme negative position on the topic. They do not seem consistent.

H.Roberson


 
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Lawrence N. Bennett
(no login)
170.141.109.33

re: Re: Clapping - Bennett

July 2 2004, 1:46 PM 

Hoyt,
Whoa indeed!

Singing is not "Physical" music. It is "Spiritual" (from the heart and soul). Only "human beings" were given a soul and CAN sing. A "MONKEY" can clap. Put that in your pipe and smoke on it a while. (not being smart alek, just trying to be a bit humorous).

Even though, usually when we talk about singing, we are talking about making a sound, the POINT is that we don't really have to. I sing all day long in my mind and I'll bet you do too.

I never said that I "defined" singing as remaining silent. I believe that we need to sing out loud but again, that is not the point.

To answer your "pray tell" question... Those Chrisians, as well as Jesus, were SINGING from their SPIRIT.

Clapping must result in physical activity or it is not clapping. Singing does not HAVE TO.

Evidently you did not read my reponse thoroughly so I repeat...

"Whether or not you are "Reviewing" a song in your mind or using your vocal cords to project the tones is not the point. Singing is the only form of music that is "internal" to your spirit. Clapping, Dancing, Playing an instrument, Eating, Drinking, etc., etc. are "external" and things that your "Spirit" MUST use external devices, including your body, to practice or participate in. More often than not, such things are a detriment to true spiritual worship.
Since we are talking about clapping, and comparing it to singing, I will just re-affirm that clapping is not MUSIC at all and it is an agitating sound that is a disruption to the Bond of Peace. Ephesians 4:1-6."

I have not WAVERED on anything! This is not an OPINION. If you are having "DIFFICULTY" understanding this, then I question whether you really understand what SPIRITUALITY is.

L. N. Bennett


 
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H.Roberson
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68.35.186.48

Re: re: Re: Clapping - Bennett

July 2 2004, 11:59 PM 

Brother Larry,

I guess we will just have to disagree on this one since it is clear to me that my spirit prompts whatever my body does in response to God, whether it's singing or whatever. I think I have a decent handle on spirituality even if you think I might not.

You apparently think clapping - all clapping in an assembly - is disruptive, although the verse reference you used doesn't say that. There are quite a number of folks that don't think it is and so I suspect for them and their congregations, it's O.K. since your and my opinion on clapping (not as worship) doesn't matter (you remember our discussion about congratulatory clapping at a 50th wedding anniversary announcement). This is really where our discussion started, not in connection with worship at all.

All this noise about clapping when we all agree it isn't sinful and has been done repeatedly in churches of Christ for non-worship events for many years. You've witnessed it and while you may have thought it odd, you have admitted it isn't sin in an assembly to acknowledge an anniversary milestone.

Let's leave it at that.

H.Roberson


 
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Lawrence N. Bennett
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170.141.109.33

re: Re: re: Re: Clapping - Bennett

July 6 2004, 2:51 PM 

Brother Roberson,

You are exactly right. Your "a) Spirit" does prompt everything that your "b) Body" does. They are A and B "2-two different things". That is the point. I did not intend to sound tacky or dis-respectful about your handle on spirituality. I was just trying to get across that your Spirit and your Body are different things.

The verse referenced "Ephesians 4:1-6" was to emphasize the word "PEACE". The first Part of the definition of "Peace" is "a State of tranquility or quiet". The first part of the definition of "Tranquil" is "to be Free from Agitation of mind or Spirit".

Congratulatory clapping is directed toward human beings and yes, is not connected with worship at all.

I do not think that clapping is sinful. It is a very useful and effective tool for teaching young people who may not have a clear vision of spirituality yet.

I do believe that clapping or any other Physical practice is "Wrong" and is the "Wrong Influence" for a congregation of christians who are mature or old enough to understand the "difference".

Thanks,
Larry

 
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Bobby Duncan
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65.1.118.201

LET GOD DO THE CLAPPING

July 1 2004, 2:07 AM 

[The following article is cited from POWER, a monthly publication of the church of Christ in Southaven, MS. Emph. by D.C.]



LET GOD DO THE CLAPPING


by Bobby Duncan


From time to time a question arises concerning the practice of clapping during our worship periods to show our approval of something said or done. This practice is, generally speaking, relatively new among churches of Christ. That fact within itself does not make the practice either right or wrong. Neither does the fact that it is a practice borrowed by our denominational neighbors from the entertainment industry, and then by churches of Christ from our denominational neighbors. The rightness or wrongness of an act is determined, not by its antiquity or its novelty, nor by who has or has not made it a practice, but by whether or not it is in harmony with the teaching of the New Testament.

Clapping during worship fits into the agenda of those who are trying to change the church. Some of them have made it plain that worship must be changed to make it more appealing to the worshipper. Calvin Warpula wrote, “I also believe we should let individuals and congregations use the musical format they like without judging them.” Rubel Shelly said, “The inspiring event we call worship in traditional churches has to give way to the exhilarating experience of God that exhibits and nourishes life in the worshippers.” He also said in the same speech, “the church has got to change. If it doesn’t change, my kids are not going to stay with it.”

These statements suggest that worship must please the worshipper. They ignore the fact that worship is designed to honor God. When the design of worship is to entertain the worshipper, we expect those being entertained to show their approval by clapping.

There is the same authority for clapping in Christian worship as there is for playing a piano or organ. It is doing something for which there is no divine authority. Furthermore, those among our brethren who first started clapping in worship are the same ones who have stretched the tent of fellowship over the denominational world, and who will not say those who use the instrument in worship sin in so doing. While clapping has now caught on with some who are otherwise, it should be remembered that hand clapping in worship was originally borrowed from the denominations by some who believe those in denominations have God’s approval.

Who is being applauded when there is hand clapping in worship? Are those who clap their hands doing so to honor God? If so, they are seeking to honor God in some way He has not authorized instead of how He has directed. “God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24).

If hand clapping is something of value in our worship, then why didn’t God prescribe it? Could it be that those who initiated this practice think they have thought of something God overlooked? Or, did God simply not know of its great value? Brethren with such wisdom would do well to read First Corinthians 3:18:20, “Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For this wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And, again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.”

Those really interested in the peace and harmony of the church will not insist on clapping in worship. They themselves will agree that clapping is not necessary in order to have scriptural worship. They will acknowledge also that clapping is not an act God has prescribed. Therefore, they must confess they can worship scripturally and conscientiously without applauding. In love for those who conscientiously oppose it, and in the interest of peace and harmony, it should be omitted.

Occasionally one will be heard to say that hand clapping is no different from saying, “Amen.” But there is one slight difference: saying, “Amen,” is authorized in scripture: 1 Corinthians 14:16, “Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?” Where is the verse which mentions clapping hands in worship?

I would emphasize that I am not one who is opposed to change, provided the change is in harmony with the will of God, and provided the change will be an improvement. However, if we are to improve our worship, it will not be by adding other acts, but by improving the worshippers.

If there is to be applause in connection with our worship, let it be by God; He is the only audience. All of us are participants.

_________________________
Bobby Duncan has passed on to his reward, but “still speaketh” through his excellent writings.

 
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H.Roberson
(no login)
64.42.137.168

Re: LET GOD DO THE CLAPPING

July 1 2004, 3:25 PM 

This message by Bobby reflects the generally gentle nature he demonstrated in most of his writings. However, his articles suffers from some of the same problems as does Mr. T. Pierce Brown's.

He begins with a very cogent observation in that he allows that the merits of a thing have nothing to do with who else does the thing; that the thing is to be evaluated on its own merits.

Unfortunately, Bobby fails to remain committed to that precept:

"Clapping during worship fits into the agenda of those who are trying to change the church." and,

"Furthermore, those among our brethren who first started clapping in worship are the same ones who have stretched the tent of fellowship over the denominational world, and who will not say those who use the instrument in worship sin in so doing. While clapping has now caught on with some who are otherwise, it should be remembered that hand clapping in worship was originally borrowed from the denominations by some who believe those in denominations have God’s approval."

Clearly, Bobby does care who else uses, advocates, or supports a thing. In making that clear, he destroys the unbiased basis of the article.

Bobby's general argument seems to be that God is the audience of worship. While that may be the case, God is not the only audience of our assemblies, which Bobby unwittingly acknowledges:

"“Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?”"

Clearly, God is not the only Bible-authorized audience of whatever we do in our assemblies. Some slight further reflection tells us that this has always been so. A Gospel sermon is aimed at sinners, as are 99% of our "invitation songs" (not mentioned in scripture). Neither have God as their object, but other humans. We are to sing and make melody in our hearts to God, but we are also to speak to one another in our singing. There are at least two audiences to our singing: God and others in attendance. In the Ephesian reference, the attendees may be envisioned to be other Christians, but in the 1 Cor reference, the unlearned, or inquirer, or non-Christian is in view. We have then, God, other Christians, and non-Christians who are the audiences of our assemblies.

No, God is not the only audience in our assemblies.

Bobby also misses the point of the verse he decides to use here. The point of the verse is not to authorize 'amen,' but to make certain that what goes on in the assembly can be understood and appropriated by those in attendance. The only point that can be gleaned from this verse is that if the assembly of the church is confusing and not understandable by those in attendance (not God), its usefulness in the Kingdom is dubious and those participating need to fix their approach. It proscribes confusion, not specific activities. A corollary would be that our assemblies are to conducive to communicating the Gospel to those in attendance however we communicate it. The mode of communicating is not addressed in this verse; simply the point of the assembly being 'understandable.'

As a side note, this verse, if it authorizes an amen, only does so for the untrained inquirer. It does not do so for Christians. What it does for Christians is charge them with making their assemblies places where that outsider would be moved to say 'Amen.'

Bobby also seems to confuse an assembly en toto, with worship. If worship's only object is God, then only those things which are directed at Him specifically are worship. Announcements, invitation songs, songs that edify or admonish, and virtually all sermons are not, by definition worship. These things are all directed at humans, not God. They therefore do not fall within the pale of 'worship.'

I suppose that Bobby would allow that if we did something that wasn't worship during an assembly, it would be OK for us direct that at someone other than God. In that instance, Bobby's argument that God has not expressed a desire to receive applause would fall flat. In fact, we have shown that the majority of our assembly time are not worship and therefore, any argument that suggests that only God-approved worship items can occur during an assembly is falacious.

Bobby seems to think that the peace and harmony of the church is paramount. Such is not always the case. The maturation of Christians is the utmost consideration. People that 'truely value peace and harmony' may do so, but understand that God's requirement for growth must be balanced and in some cases will overtake the peace and harmony of a particular congregation. I believe that Paul admonished the Corinthian church for ignoring their calling of God. They were likely happy doing what they were doing but Paul was willing to cause them some discomfort for their own good.

But some might argue that applause is optional and therefore those who like it should not be pushing it on those that don't like it. I suppose the reverse question would also be true: "If I don't like it, but I know it's optional, why do I insist on having my way over it?" This question is especially appropriate for mature Christians.

In short, Bobby's article has about as much strength behind it as does Mr. Brown's - which isn't much.

H.Roberson

 
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walter h. rosenbrock sr.
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clapping

September 17 2006, 4:39 PM 

Bro. Roberson & Bro. Bennett:

On the subject of clapping during song worship, we all need to remember that as CHRISTIANS we are supposed to strive to be like christ. If there is anyplace in GOD'WORD that tells us that CHRIST did this , then I am all for it if it doesn't detract from the worship. I do not know of anyplace in the bible that tells of CHRIST doing this, so, until I am shown where JESUS clapped when singing, then I think it is wrong because you are than adding to the word of GOD. As we all know, we are commanded not to add to or take away from the word of GOD.

Always in CHRIST,

Walter H> Rosenbrock sr.

 
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John Brown
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WORSHIP: Clapping hands during worship

July 1 2004, 2:12 AM 

Source: www.bible-infonet.org
[Emphases, D.C.]
________________________________________


The Bell Choir


By John Brown



A recent denominational church bulletin I received made reference to a "bell choir." A difficulty has arisen; the audience has taken to applauding when the bell choir sounds. The bulletin note said that the bell choir is "providing beautiful music to assist in our meditation upon the sacrificial death of our Savior." The minister chastises the church for applauding, telling them, "The applause tends to break the meditation we are seeking to produce. At a time when our hearts and minds are to be focused on Christ, clapping tends to pull us away from that. There are times when clapping is fine and appreciated," says this denominational preacher, "but perhaps the time we meet around the Lord's table is not one of them."

And so the request is made: no more clapping for the bell choir!


I have never heard this bell choir, but I know why people are clapping: they think they are being entertained. They are applauding the show.

Worship is not entertainment.

When we worship God, we are not the audience. We are not even spectators. We are supposed to be participants. God is the audience! Our worship is directed heavenward, and that is why we don't applaud each other.

Picture this scene: "That was a wonderful prayer, brother Tom, Dick, or Harry ... and sister Bertha, Sally, or Suzie looked so godly while taking the fruit of the vine; ... let's give them a big hand." (Thunderous applause.) Nobody is thinking about Jesus.

We come together as the body of Christ to worship, honor, venerate, serve, and reverence the God of heaven through Jesus. We don't gather with tooting, banging, strumming, and bell-ringing to amuse one another.

Our worship is toward God. "Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Matt. 4:10). "The hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth" (John 4:23-24).

By the way, if a bell choir creates a meditation that enables us to take better the Lord's Supper, I wonder why God didn't know that and include that in the biblical pattern?

This denomination's problem is not just with the bell choir, but involves their whole understanding and application of the purpose and pattern of worship. Many denominations know they have a problem; they don't know what it is. What they are reaping is bad fruit from the seeds they planted of departing from God's Word.

Would to God we could see and avoid that same trap. Brethren Shelly and Harris in their book, The Second Incarnation, say things about worship that are ridiculous, including recommending "raucous celebration ... jubilation ... applause and cheering" (pp. 139-140).

If applause takes the mind off of Jesus when partaking of the Lord's Supper, why wouldn't it do the same thing any other time during worship? We need to maintain jealously the simplicity and dignity of worship in spirit and truth.

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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Re: WORSHIP: Clapping hands during worship

July 1 2004, 1:22 PM 

Ringing bells would be classified as "clanging cymbals." Paul equated the booming bass and tinkling (screaming) cymbals to "weapons" of warfare or to sorcery. Because worship is "holding the thought of God in your mind or spirit, the preside-over musicians and the noise makes worship impossible. Whatever the "sincerity quotient" the result is that Satan has such groups which is consistent with the remnant concept that only a FEW are chosen out of all those who are called. This fits end- time prophecy 100% if you grasp that prophesies of the first advent did not inform the best "scholars." Thomas Paine in black text:

keladeô [kelados]
    I. to sound as rushing water, to shout aloud, in APPLAUSE
    2. of various sounds, to utter a CRY, cry aloud, of BELLS TO TINKLE, of the flute, k. phthongon kalliston id=Eur.
    II. trans. to sing of, celebrate loudly, etc.

phthongos is
    I. any clear, distinct sound, esp. the voice of men, Hom., attic; also of animals, Soph., Eur.

    II. generally, a sound, as distinguished from a voice (phônê ), Plat.:--of musical sounds

Corrupt is the Greek:
    Phtheiro (g5351) fthi'-ro; prob. strength. (to pine or waste): prop. to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil (by any process) or (gen.) to ruin (espec. fig. by moral influences, to deprave): - corrupt (self), defile, destroy

    Phthoggos (g5353) fthong'-gos; from 5350; utterance, i.e. a musical note (vocal or instrumental): - sound.

    Niqqud (h5350) nik-kood'; from the same as 5348; a crumb (as broken to spots); also a biscuit (as pricked): - cracknel, mouldy. [This is the SOP Jesus broke for Judas as a MARK. Satan came into Judas and being found out fled. The Judas Bag was for "carring the mouthpices of wind instruments." Psalm 41 prophsied of this MUSICAL attack.

    Calal (h6750) tsaw-lal'; a prim. root [rather ident. with 6749 through the idea of vibration]; to tinkle, i. e. rattle together (as the ears in reddening with shame, or the teeth in chattering with fear): - quiver, tingle.

    Chalal (h2490) khaw-lal'.. wound, to dissolve; fig. to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word),denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute): defile, break, defile.. take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

Thomas Paine witnessed a small boy slowly twisting in the wind imposed by the clergy for stealing bread. Thomas Paine was an expert on the Bible but probably rejected it because ALL religions had built an evil SUPERSTRUCTURE for their own profit. He notes:
    But the men most and best informed upon the subject of theology rest themselves upon this universal article, and hold all the various superstructures erected thereon to be at least doubtful, if not altogether artificial.

    The intellectual part of religion is a private affair between every man and his Maker, and in which no third party has any right to interfere.

    The practical part consists in our doing good to each other.
    But since religion has been made into a trade,
      [NOTE: French: "since the most scandalous hypocrisy has made of Religion a profession and the basest trade." -- Editor.]

    the practical part has been made to consist of ceremonies performed by men called priests;

    and the people have been amused with ceremonial shows, processions, and BELLS.

    By devices of this kind true religion has been banished; and such means have been found out to extract money even from the pockets of the poor, instead of contributing to their relief.
      [NOTE: French adds: "du superflu de la richesse." (from their superfluous wealth). -- Editor.]
    No man ought to make a living by Religion. It is dishonest so to do.

    Religion is not an act that can be performed by proxy. One person cannot act religion for another. Every person must perform it for himself;

    and all that a priest can do is to take from him; he wants nothing but his moneyand then to riot in the spoil and laugh at his credulity.


      NOTE: The ten preceding words are replaced in the French by: "to take from us not our vices but our money." -- Editor.]

    The only people who, as a professional sect of Christians provide for the poor of their society, are people known by the name of Quakers. Those men have no priests. They assemble quietly in their places of meeting,

      and do not disturb their neighbours with SHOWS and NOISE OF BELLS

      Religion does not unite itself to show and noise.

      True religion is without either. Where there is both there is no true religion
      [NOTE: "A Religion uniting the two [noise and show] at the expense of the poor whose misery it should lessen, is a curious Religion; it is the Religion of kings and priests conspiring against suffering humanity." -- Editor.]
    The first object for inquiry in all cases, more especially in matters of religious concern, is TRUTH.

Didn't Jesus say something like that: "worship is in the new PLACE of the spirit cleansed at baptism as a REQUEST for A holy spirit or a good conscience (consiousness or co-perception) and in TRUTH. Spirit and Truth are of the Mind which IS the spirit of mankind. "Enthus O mania" as enspirited or charismatic (sexual and worse) coupled (a Freudian slip) with FALSE HOOD from the mouth of a Sermonic or Musica or Mantic or Magica song speaks of worship as THRESKIA or Charismatic or is OF THE DEVIL because Jesus said the SONS of the Devil "speak on their own."

Again, Thomas Paine rejected the Bible primarily because "religion" and especially "Christenism" built evil systems rather than trying to understand Scripture. His bitterness undoubtedly stemed from being ignored even when it is certain that he was a fundamental FOUNDING FATHER of American freedom: especially freedom FROM systems built on ignorance of the Scriptures. He, along with John Locke, grasped that tyranny is normally RIDING on the back of false religions.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.23

Jesus died to give us REST from all performers

July 5 2004, 7:16 PM 

THE PROPHECY OF REST FOR BELIEVERS

The following words (and many more) are intimately linked to define the "threskia" form or the worship of Orpheus (its inventor), Dionysus (the new wineskin god), Apollo, Rhea (Zoe) and others. A heretic is one who uses "spiritual anxiety created by religious ritual" to LIFT UP to take away your property for themselves.
    Heresy = Aeirô = Aeidô = Locust = Abaddon or Apollyon = Kleptomaniacs.
When the Israelites rose up to PLAY at Mount Sinai they repudiated the Covenant of Grace and engaged in perverted worship of the Egyptian Triad. God refused to give them REST. When Messiah came He gave the REST but the traffickers didn't take long to get the harness on most people and get them out bearing burdens both financially, spiritually and emotionally. You remember that Isaiah 28 was used by Paul to define speaking STRANGE TONGUES (never gibberish or praise songs). This and music has been used for spiritual tribuating people. One of the prophesies begins:
    Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye SCORNFUL men, that rule (dominate) this people which is in Jerusalem. Isa 28:14

    Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Is.28:15

    Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall NOT make haste. Isa 28:16

    Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. Isaiah 28:17

THE DEFINITION OF REST FOR BELIEVERS

The Word "BELIEVETH" as in the Great Commission is putting one's trust in Jesus Christ by obeying without question. Believeth is not just failing to believea few facts.

The Hebrew word is:
    Aman (h539) aw-man'; a prim. root; prop. to build up or support; to foster as a parent or nurse; fig. to render (or be) FIRM or faithful, to TRuST or believe, to be permanent or QUIET; mor. to be TRUE or certain; once (Isa. 30:21; by interch. for 539) to go to the RIGHT HAND: - hence assurance, believe, bring up, establish, / fail, be FAITHFUL (of long continuance, stedfast, sure, surely, trusty, verified), nurse, (-ing father), (put), trust, turn to the right.

      And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the WAY, WALK ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Is.30:21
The WAY is the eishodos. One gets INTO the way or road until one gets INTO Christ and the remission of Sins at the DOOR which is Christ Jesus. No one comes to the Father but through the Son. We are not so JUDGMENTAL that we rewrite the Bible because someone MIGHT be saved without baptism. That is playing God: seeing God and the Word in a mirror.
    Shaqat (h8252) shaw-kat'; a prim. root; to REPOSE (usually fig.): - appease, idleness, (at, be at, be in, give) QUIETNESS, (be at, be in, give, have, take) REST, settle, BE STILL.
Shall NOT make haste is a direct command: Make Haste is
    Chuwsh (h2363) koosh; a prim. root; to hurry; fig. to be eager with EXCITEMENT or ENJOYMENT: - (make) haste (-n), ready.

    Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: Isaiah 5:18

    That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work , that we may SEE it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it Isaiah 5:19

    And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are AT REST, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, Eze.38:11

    And they answered the angel of the Lord that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest. Zec.1:11


Paul defined the Christian synagogue (united to learn but from diverse backgrounds) as a place where you are CHRIST LIKE: you do not PLEASE yourself which is one of those perverted concepts.
    For even Christ PLEASED not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. Rom 15:3
Pleasure or Please speaks of MAKING HASTE or lifting up and carrying away (heresy) another person's mind AND property for personal use:
    Aresko (g700) ar-es'-ko; prob. from 142 (through the idea of exciting emotion); to be agreeable (or by impl. to seek to be so): - please.
This word relates directly to a word included in HERESY. A heretick takes away by CREATING spiritual anxiety which Jesus died to ELEMINATE. If you are paying the TAX of tithe or "law of giving" to get someone to PLEASUR you you must grasp that they are in the link which includes KLEPTOMANIA.
    Airo (g142) ah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to lift; by impl. to take up or away; figurative to raise the voice, keep in suspense the mind

    The way people DELIBERATELY slap God in the face by creating panic or excitement is a word related directly to airo and heresy:

    Aeidô. to sing, THEN of any sound, to TWANG, of the BOWSTRING, whistle, of the wind, to ring, of a stone struck, to sing in one's praise

People who violate the VERY PURPOSE for God coming in the flesh do so with a HIGH HAND because they are agents of an alien power and, like Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute, simply DO NOT want people to hear the Words in song and sermons as the Spirit of Christ has delivered them. Peter outlawed further expounding because the word.

Rubel Shelly and Max Lucado and all of the little ditto heads say that the Holy Spirit is God's Song Writer and Dance Master! The Spirit of Christ says:

    THE Lord is my shepherd; I shall not want.

    He maketh me to lie down (repose) in green pastures: he leadeth (protects and makes me sparkle) me beside the still waters.

    He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his names sake.


Rubel Shelly wants to "partner" with God and rewrite scripture to fit OUR culture. However, the "olden" God inspired the Bible writers to POINT to the carnal practices of THAT culture. That demands leaving the olden Scriptures behind as well as the olden God because these pseudo-scholars have become DISCONNECTED FROM THE HEAD. Those who can believe them should just eat drink and make merry--as they are assuredly doing. They are dancing the dance of DEATH and CANNOT stop if we can believe Scriptures evidence about "music."

Edward Fudge says that "if we can rewrite Acts 2:38 then it means" what his Baptist (c. ad 1525). It is not only unspiritual to define God's words with a DIFFERENT DICTIONARY it guarantees that God will send strong delusions so that the deluders believe their own lies. And, strange as it seems, the world if FILLED with people who want SOME ONE to "put God in His place." It is fulfilled prophecy so do not grieve.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.23

Singing LOVE songs!

August 20 2004, 3:12 PM 

The Vulgate has the latin translation

Jer 3:[6] WEB Moreover Yahweh said to me in the days of Josiah the king, Have you seen that which backsliding Israel has done? she is gone up on every HIGH MOUNTAIN and under every GREEN TREE, and there has played the prostitute.

Jer 3: [7] I said after she had done all these things, She will return to me; but she didn't return: and her treacherous sister Judah saw it.

Jer 3: [8] I saw, when, for this VERY CAUSE that backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a bill of divorce, yet treacherous Judah, her sister, didn't fear; but she also went and played the prostitute.

Jer 3:[9] It happened through the lightness [SINGING, lowing noises] of her prostitution, that the land was polluted, and she committed adultery [apostatize] with stones and with stocks.
    Stocks are with trees made into various forms. A similar word means "a hired workman" and WORSHIP LEADERS were menials. It also means to EXACT things like TITHES. The FIR was used for lances and musical instruments.

    And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. 2S.6:5

    The stone is EBEN but it means to build as a mason would build.
In the Vulate, 3;9 is:

Jer 3:[9] propterea tradidi eam in manu AMATORUM suorum in manus filiorum Assur super quorum insanivit libidinem
    Amatorum to find pleasure in, delight in: nomen, ORATIONEM, vultum, incessum alicujus amare, A. Amare se, of VAIN MEN, to be in love with, to be PLEASED with ONE'S SELF, also, to be selfish
You remember that Lipscomb--which now has a DEGREE in WORSHIP MUSIC, etc.--brought in Farmer's Branch musical and sabbatarian to TEACH the aspiring preachers RHETORIC. That means that you can get a degree in SELF LOVE. But, this is the same Bible guru who says of Isaiah and worship: "There's nothing wrong." This is the silly mantra that what God calls spiritual prostitution was condemned because they just had a bad mental attitude. That is not what Amos was condemning.

But, then Jesus warned us not to be fools when He said that "the doctors of the Law take away the key to KNOWLEDGE." Sure, "worship music" is calculated by Satan to take away KNOWLEDGE. Spirit is KNOWLEDGE which God in Christ FEEDS us only to the extent that we speak HIS Words one to another. So, here is the MARCHING ORDERS FROM Jesus and Paul: do not, I say, do not, give your wages for what is NOT bread. If you SUPPORT these people you are ENABLERS. A musician or performance preacher did and does perform the evil task of the SORCERY and that is why they are called PARASITES. You may need a 12 step program to peel the dead albatrosses off your backs and out of your kid's "food bank" with the Blessing and REST of Jesus. If you PAY them for non-Biblical roles then YOU are the BLIND and God has NO MERCY for the BLIND who have been once enlightened by the Word (Heb 6). And for those who do not treat God with reverence and holy fear GOD IS STILL A CONSUMING FIRE.

This LOVE Word is usually applied to gods or goddesses such as Phaethon, Hester amarus and cupidus [the little guy who shot Apollo's kind of "arrows."]. Phaethon speaks of Helios or the S.U.N. god Shelly wants to honor, and they heyel form speaks of Lucifer or ZOE Therefore, these Jews were not engaged in NORMAL sexual immorality: they were deeply into the same pagan worship which they brought with them from Egypt and practiced and built temples for in Jerusalem. That is the NEW STYLE WORSHIP and there can be no doubt.
    EZEK (Vulgate) XXIII. The word of Yahweh came again to me, saying, [2] Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother: [3] and they PLAYED the prostitute in Egypt; they played the prostitute in their youth; there were their breasts pressed, and there was handled the bosom of their virginity. [4] The names of them were Oholah the elder, and Oholibah her sister: and they became mine, and they bore sons and daughters. As for their names, Samaria is Oholah, and Jerusalem is Oholibah. [5] Oholah played the prostitute when she was mine; and she doted on her lovers, on the Assyrians [her] neighbors, [6] who were clothed with blue, governors and rulers, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding on horses. [7] She bestowed her prostitution on them, the choicest men of Assyria all of them; and on whoever she doted, with all their idols she defiled herself. [8] Neither has she left her prostitution since [the days of] Egypt; for in her youth they lay with her, and they handled the bosom of her virginity; and they poured out their prostitution on her. [9] Therefore I delivered her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, on whom she doted

    Doted is: Agab (h5689) aw-gab'; a prim. root; to breathe after, i. e. to love (sensually): - dote, lover.
You must remember that the MUSICAL BANDITS use the Levitical musicians who made NOISE and not music, and whose SERVICE was HARD BONDAGE like the word ABAD or ABADDON OR APOLLYON. They want the TITHE because they have clearly RESTORED the LAW and are beyond-redemption legalists. Furthermore, the MUSIC is derived from the Sacrificial system ONLY in Canaan, only in Judah and only in Jerusalem and only in the COURT YARD of the temple. And ONLY when mocking thousands of innocent animals as types of Lord Jesus Whom they musically MOCKED but did not defeat.

And John in Revelation identifies JERUSALEM with these same PROSTITUTES in Jerusalem and Samaria:
    And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called SODOM and EGYPT, where also our Lord was CRUCIFIED. Re.11:8
Therefore, only if you get a Phd from a once-christian school are you able to pass this garbage through your lips (double edged swords) and WRITE as SCRIBAS what would get NORMAL people flunked out of the Card Class in the School of Ethics. If you know about David or have watched the movie version of Sodom you will see that not even the vilest sang songs and played the instruments with different tones. That needs no ethics or morality but would defy minimal common sense.

Ezekiel defines these LOVE SONGS and MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS to explain how Jerusalem and Samaria DOTED on their lovers: treating God and Ezekiel as they would a musical prostitute. The LOVE word is:
    Egeb (h5690) eh'-gheb, from 5689; love (concr.), i. e. amative words: - much love, very lovely.

    And they come unto thee as the people cometh, and they sit before thee as my people, and they hear thy words,
      but they will not do them: for with their mouth they shew much love,
      but their heart goeth after their covetousness. Ezek 33:31

    And, lo, thou art unto them
      AS a very LOVELY song
      of one that hath a pleasant voice,
      and can play well on an instrument:
      for they hear thy words, but they do them not. Ezek 33:32

    And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them. Ezek 33:33

    Uwgab (h5748) oo-gawb'; from 5689 in the orig. sense of breathing; a REED-INSTRUMENT of music: - organ

    Of the same message Jesus warned:

    Ye hypocrites (paid theatrical performers), well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, Matt15:7

    This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoreth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Matt 15:8
Remember that Chalal one of the "praise words" is translated to mean "steal your inheritance, prune your vines, play the flute, pollute or prostitute. Jubal from which we get JUBILEE used instruments to TAKE CAPTIVE people to sell people THEIR OWN animals under the guise of PROTECTING them:
    And his brothers name was JUBAL: he was the father of all such as handle [meaning without authority] the harp and ORGAN. Gen 4:21
Jubal is from Yabal which means to "bring forth with POMP or to lead into captivity.

Job spoke of the pagan, sexual fertility rites practiced in Jerusalem. They thought that by singing, dancing, playing instruments and ENJOYING one another the gods OWED them prosperity. Universally, sing, dancing, music or ORATION was and is believed to bring one into the presence of God or to bring God down to dance on the TEAM AS A PLATFORM. The gods, you see, also enjoyed the sexuality performed FOR him by the AGENTS or priests and priestesses.
    THEY send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. Job 21:11

    THEY take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the ORGAN. Job 21:12

    THEY spend their days in wealth (pleasure, loving, sweet, pleasant, joyful), and in a moment go down to the grave. Job 21:13

    THEREFORE they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. Job 21:14
Not only is the unholy prostitute church LUSTING for these things, their MANTRA which PROVES that they have a new revelation from the SPIRIT PERSON is that EVERYTHING IS OK: keep everyone pleasant, happy, COOL, and OUR PERSONA will be OUR way to "save more souls." Isn't that the Purpose Driven Cult repeating itself? The word WEALTH does not mean just MONEY but:
    Towb (h2896) tobe; a good or good thing, a good man or woman; the GOOD, goods or good THINGS, good men or women), beautiful, best, better, bountiful, cheerful, at ease, fair word, be in favour, fine, glad, good graciously, joyful, kindly, kindness, liketh best, loving, merry, most, pleasant, / pleaseth, pleasure, precious, prosperity, ready, sweet, wealth, welfare, (be) well ([-favoured]).
NONE of the instruments of Psalm 150 were ever in the holy place or most holy place of the temple. The PRAISE word here is halal which is the same as Chalal. It means to celebrate, stultify, make boast, FEIGN self mad, rage, SHINE or give in marriage. Heylel or LUCIFER is from this praise word which spoke of LIGHT and then SOUND. In fact, all of these INSTRUMENTS have BREATH and scripture says that idols DO NOT HAVE BREATH. Therefore, because Psalm 150 is a POEM it is treated POETICALLY by scholars.
    Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and ORGANS. Ps.150:4
This is the MUSIC component of SPIRITUAL ADULTERY which is the end-time PROSTITUTE religion focused on LOVE MAKING with music. The other component of MAKING LOVE and of spiritual PROSTITUTION involves rhetoricians or sOPHISts (serpents) or ORATORS who deliver SET SERMONS as opposed to the word SERMO which is the Latin of Paul's word meaning to DIALOG or COMMUNE one with another.

God prophesied of the end-time religion being COMMERCIAL and therefore the repeating of holy prostitution. Why is it so outrageous to say that: "Nashville, Apollo has landed" and DUG UP the Locusts, muses or musical performers. That means that without hesitation all that we know of the Bible, history and the persona of performers this is the same RELIGIOUS PROSTITUTION where people SELL their bodies and talents with no less guilt than a woman who SELLS her services. We will look at ORATORS as a peddling of this service and is propelled by SELF LOVE willing to share--for a price, always for a price.

Ken Sublett

 
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John Waddey
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SOME THINGS ARE NOT FOR SALE

July 25 2004, 4:01 AM 

SOME THINGS ARE NOT FOR SALE



A worldly businessman once commented that anyone or anything could be bought if the right amount of money is put on the table. It is a sad truth that many politicians can be bought if enough money or power is offered. Even some churches have been bought and sold. I speak not of church property, but of religious institutions whose announced purpose is the worship and service of God. Simon, the Samaritan Sorcerer, incurred the wrath of heaven when he thought to obtain the gift of God with money (Acts 8:19-21). As Christians struggle to survive in a secular, materialistic society they must be resolved that they will never allow themselves to be bought nor sold.
  1. Our faith is not for sale. Our faith is codified in the New Testament of Christ. He has warned us against adding to or taking away from it (Revelation. 22:18-19). If someone dangles a million dollars before us on condition that we abandon just one of our Lord's commandments we must reject it with scorn. To compromise would be to "make shipwreck concerning the faith" (I Timothy 1:19).

  2. Our standards are not for sale. Christ has set forth basic standards of Christian conduct and behavior for his people. Those Christian virtues and values stand in stark contrast with those of contemporary America. Pressure is felt on every side for us to compromise our standards and lower them so that impenitent sinners of the world will feel comfortable while they camp in our midst. The church in Corinth tried this and was rebuked by Paul (I Corinthians 5:1-13). This we cannot do. Anyone who wishes to be a Christian must repent and be baptized (Acts 2:38). Without repentance his baptism is no more effective than a swim in the river. Every member, great or small, is expected to "live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world" (Titus 2:12).

  3. Our integrity is not for sale. Congregations, like individuals, have or have not integrity. Integrity means "Adherence to a code of moral... or other values: utter sincerity, honesty and candor: avoidance of deception, expediency, artificiality or shallowness of any kind" (Webster's New International Dict.). Some folks will pretend to be what they are not, if there is the prospect of gaining money or recognition. That a faithful congregation can never do. We must be faithful to our Lord and our calling if we must stand totally alone. With Job we must declare, "Till I die, I will not put away mine integrity from me" (Job. 27:5).

  4. The leadership of our congregations is not for sale. It is not unusual for worldly churches to bestow offices upon those with wealth, influence or power. A Texas church appointed the late President Lyndon Johnson to its eldership; flagrant, calloused sinner though he was. Paul reminds us that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free, male nor female (Galatians 3:28) and we could add that there is neither banker nor borrower, nor president nor pauper, nor chief nor Indian. We are all one in Christ. Only those should asked to lead whose lives and spiritual commitment are worthy. Jude blasted those who showed respect of persons for the sake of advantage (Jude 16).

  5. Our souls are not for sale. In literature, there are numerous stories of those who sold their souls for fame, fortune, wealth or romance. Most of us have known people who have made this tragic mistake. Churches can do the same. To have worldly respect, prominent members, large numbers, a great income, a fine house of worship, some lower their standards and forsake their Lord's paths. They do not blush to do so. For that they will pay a fearful price. That we cannot and must not do!
If being true to the Savior means that the church will remain a small band of humble disciples, forever meeting in a rented hall, so let it be. Far better is it to be little in the eyes of sinful men and to be blessed in the eyes of the heavenly Father. When Satan comes inquiring, may he always find posted on the door of every church, in large, bright letters, a sign reading, NOT FOR SALE.

____________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: johnwaddey@aol.com

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.3

End Time Sun God Worship

July 28 2004, 2:00 PM 

Remember that Stephen said that God turned Israel over to worship the Heavenly Host. Lucifer is identical to several terms related to the Astrial Deities. What we see--especially under the MONARCHY where the elders fired God and hired a DOMINANT PASTOR to fight their battles--is a king, kingdom, temple and worship "like the nations." God said that the kings were to lead them into captivity and death because in rejecting God (Christ the Spirit) they were TERMINAL and were still blind until they TURNED to the Lord whi is THAT Spirit (2 Cor. 3).

Rubel Shelly sees the Exodus as a PATTERN for our own worship and community (commune). He and everyone else greedly run to the Levitical Warrior musicians (noise makers) whose service was HARD BONDAGE which is Abaddown, Abaddon, Apollyon or Apollo for PROOF TEXT. Remember that Bruce White runs to the PRIESTOOD for tithing authority. This began as a connection between LUCIFER and ZOE as Saturn, Venus (Lucifer-Zoe), Jupiter (the harvester) and the S.U.N. god instead of the S.O.N. God.j

hêlios which connects with all of the LIFE words including ZOE is the sun-god identified with APOLLO pollo, Dionysus, D.Chr.31.11, etc.

2. Hêliou astêr, of the planet Saturn, astêr, Choerob.):--star (v. astron), aster' opôrinôi, Arktouros the chief star in the constellation, shooting star or METEOR. Aster or STAR always meant a PERFORMING STAR.

Arktouros the star Arcturus, Bearward, the time of his HELIACAL RISING. i.e. the middle of SEPTEMBER

opôrinos , late summer, aster' opôrinôi Sirius, the star whose rising marked the beginning of that season

opôra the part of the year between the rising of Sirius and of Arcturus (i.e. the last days of July, all Aug., and part of Sept.),

And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is RIPE. Re.14:15

The word MELODY in Hebrew also means a PRUNING HOOK!

Opora (g3703) op-o'-rah; appar. from the base of 3796 and 5610; prop. even-tide of the (summer) season (DOG-days), i.e. (by impl.) ripe FRUIT: - fruit.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Mt.13:30

Grow together speaks of something such as the Word which bound both the good and evil together until SUDDENLY as if a miracle had come, the SYNAGOG of Satan popped up to divide.

Sundesmos (g4886) soon'-des-mos; from 4862 and 1199; a joint tie, i.e. ligament, (fig.) uniting principle, ontrol: - band, bond.

And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. Col.2:19

This gathering speaks of the chaff is the MARK that the church is being carried off as BOOTY by those "navigating the winds of change"

Sullego (g4816) sool-leg'-o; from 4862 and 3004 in its orig. sense; to collect: - gather (together, up).

sulagôgeô, ( [sulon] ) carry off as booty, lead captive

Sule speaks of "seizing the ship or cargo" believing that it belongs to them: it is a reprisal meaning to be ENGAGED IN PRIVATEERING. Taking the booty from warfare. The similar Greek word is APOSTERIZO meaning PLEONEXIEA or GETTING MORE THAN MY SHARE: "the character and conduct of a pleonektês, greediness, grasping, assumption, arrogance.

We noted that HERESY means to LIFT UP something which belongs to you to carry it away for their OWN use. The weapon is singing which PLEASURES or creates an EXCITING "worship service." Unfortunately, it is the worship of a STAR or STARS. A similat word is Hupekklepto meaning to shoplift or carry off SECRETLY.

Similar to: hupek-kleptô , carry off secretly, hupekklapenta

Col 2:[5]WEB For though I am absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, rejoicing and seeing your order, and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ. [6] As therefore you received Christ Jesus, the Lord, walk in him, [7] rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving. [8] Be careful that you don't let anyone ROB you through his philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ.

Or: [8] Blepete mê tis humas estai ho SULAGOGON dia tês PHILOSOPHIAS kai kenês apatês kata tên paradosin tôn anthrôpôn, kata ta stoicheia tou kosmou kai ou kata Christon:

sulagôgeô, ( [sulon] ) carry off as booty, lead captive, includes: rob, despoil, ton OIKEN. This means to DESPOIL THE HOUSE or OIKOS which includes to: Despoil the House oikos the house of a god, a temple, your FAMILY and HOUSEHOLD GOODS--Substance

If you are not ASSEMBLED to give heed to the Words of Christ in song and sermon, the word Sunago (g4863) to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; SPECIFICIALLY to entertain (hospitably)

In a hostile sense, join battle, begin the battle-strife, polemon or "preaching as a Profit."

It means to "pit two warriors one against the other, engage in fight, Collect or LEVY soldiers, collect slaves for work.

If you grasp the Vineyard, Newwineskin or Joel's Army you know that these people believe that they are going to be God's NEW right hand man (Jesus was the old HAND). They will hand out rewards and KILL those who oppose their rulership.

However:

And the FRUITS that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. Rev 18:14

The FRUITS are defined by ALL of the Bible and secular history: They are the ones who COLLECT. They are the ones who ENTERTAIN. They are the ones who LEVY soldiers and their money by the 40 DAY temptation process and THEY are the ones who LEVY a tax or tithe on you to pay THEM for what God in Christ has already done. Proof of what the TRAFFICKERS uses as ODEING to LIFT UP you, your family and your FINANCES for their OWN use and pleasuring. This process is the only real meaning of HERESY.

And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

Nashville, Apollo has landed. This is one tiny step for man but one GIANT leap of apostasy and loss when God sends in Saturn or Apollo to HARVEST the crop to be stamped in a vast WINEVAT. Yes, the PRUNING HOOK is a musical instrument in Hebrew.

YOU think about the MARKS because the Apollos with the MUSES (locusts as musical performers) will lie and cannot find ANY EXCEPT. Paul would say that little does it matter because fools love to be fooled.

Ken

 
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Kenneth Sublett
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63.84.81.45

The YEAR OF THE LOCUST

July 28 2004, 10:23 PM 

Again I say: the Bible uses words of ITS culture. To understand we cannot follow Rubel Shelly and crew and work out OUR salvation which he believes allows only the COMMUNITY to read, interpret and speak the NEW meanings which we work out in PARTNERSHIP with an Infinite God based on OUR CULTURE. Sure, we translate Homer by using the meanings of words in Russian!

These "pregnant" words POINT to the meaning of concepts which, beginning in Genesis, are WORLDY concepts used by Satan for his children and agents. Moses was inspired to write to REPUDIATE the concepts of Babylonianism. They created man as a "labor saving device" out of clay and the blood of an evil god: blow in the lower end of the little clay man (pipe) and the gods (elohim) poured forth breath (spirit) which they claimed was inspired. This has not changed.

The available resources for any WORD is like a huge lake: dip in at any point and you will find concepts which are ALWAYS evil on the human plain. God's grace is not 'unlimited forgiveness for unlimited sins' but translating us to a spiritual plain where grace is the POWER to follow the will of God WITHOUT any sexual bribery.

We have noted that to be grace centered boasts of being charismatic or perverted and there is NO exception in the POOL of THAT culture. When John spoke of the locusts with scorpion tails a student of that time would know that he was pointing to the MUSES (all liberal arts) as locusts as musical performers. They were UNDER Apollo or Abaddon who, restoring his ancient seeker center or Oracle of Delphi has turned the locust loose to pour forth smoke and haze using music and sexual perversion. Is there any reason to doubt that when you connect pleasuring the erotic centers with music my BRING ON continuous seeking and thinking of what will reproduce that feeling.

The sting in the tail is something like singing HIGH PITCHED human odes or hymns. Clapping or body drumming is the MARK of the locust. The Jewish encyclopedia and the human experience of a sensitive mind would see modering 'singing' as screeching or howling. A Musicologist says that it contains but masks the DOG BARKS at midnight or the WATER DRIPS of a Chinese torture chamber. I try to be systematic but the RESOURCES but it just overwhelms you and STILL there is nothing about external "worship" performed by locusts which is not RADICALLY CONDEMNED. It's all Satan's victory and the fact that a few OUTERS turned the NEW STYLE WORSHIP loose by lying about all of the Bible is one of Satan's lying wonders: It would be hard to find anything in history--including the Red Sea--which has been more miraculously FLASHING like lightening (Phos, Aster, Lucifer, Zoe) all around the world.

The locusts in Revelation separate or MARK people into two SECTS. The faithful, word and baptism marked people just FLEE as one of the EFFECTS OF music which produces endorphins. For those marked by Apollo (Cain means a musical note), they THINK that they are having a supernatural but admitted sexual climax with the "spirit." (Carol Wimber, Vineyard and all maddening musical prophesying). However, it is a fact that high pitched or complex harmony GRINDS the soul into bits (Psallo, Sop). They HOLD the lost captive until the time of Judgment. Believe me, the total history (Enoch, Jubilees, Adam and Eve, etc) is that when you have been STUNG the effect is a rise in homosexuality and you will NEVER GET back into the presence of the Living Word. Romans 1 speaks of the Garden of Eden, the Flood and Israel in Canaan.

Skorpios means a scorpion or an ENGINE of WAR for discharging ARROWS. We have tried to get the point across that MELODY or PSALLO speaks of literal arrows of Apollo intending to SHOOT your heart and make you dead. The so called "musical" connection is that of singing EXTERNAL hymns which is equivalent to "pulling the bowstring and SUDDENLY letting it go to LEAVE A MARK." Hymns are also SHOT OUT as are love arrows. Pan the perverted half goat (beast) and cupid are examples.

Skorpios like sOPHISts (serpent) has a hidden meaning: s"KORPIOS"

Kopis is a CHOPPER or CLEAVER or broad curved knife just as CARNAL WEAPON includes LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS. The pruning hooks means to PLUCK to gather in.
    The purpose is "to strike, smite, knock dowwn, to cut off, chop off, of ships, to be shattered or disabled by the enemy, stricken in mind

    Also: To hammer, forge, stamp (Mark) to coin oneself money, to cut small, chop up or pound in a mortar. Psallo or melody means to "twitch or twang" is from Psocho meaning to TRITURATE or grind into a fine powder..

    Skorpios also points to beat one's breast through grief. Epikopto means to STRIKE down and then to mourn for any one, cut short, bring down from high estate, check, impede, PRAXEIS, reprove: philosophers refute, it means charaktêra stamp which is the MARK. Smite one's breast, wail for of disease, afflict. injure, hêdonai which connects to volupto.

    This sounds like the tettix or locusts as the Choerob: Cicala, Cicada, a winged insect fond of basking on trees, when the male makes a chirping or clicking noise by means of certain drums or 'tymbals' underneath the wings

    And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits (a sounding empty wineskin), and unto wizards that PEEP (Chirp), and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the DEAD? Is.8:19

    To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Is 8:20

    And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward. Is 8:21
They hoped to get Jesus and others to SING and DANCE while they piped. The songs were threnodes which were songs FOR and WITH the dead as Amos warned. Thrêneô sing a dirge, wail, Mousai (muses) aoidên . . ethrêneon were singing a doleful dirge, oxutonous ôidas, epôidas ; humnou.
    Pxutonos, on, sharp-sounding, piercing. of sound. The connected word cheroplêktos means on, struck by the hand, cheroplêktoi . . doupoi the sound of beating with the hand, It means phreno manês, distracted, maddened, phreno-morôs , Adv., ( [moros] ) suffering from a calamity to the mind, Or MANIA the MADNESS of those in Corinth who spoke and sang out of their OWN minds or spirits. The uncovered PROPHESIERS in 1 Cor 11:5 had probably been the singers, clappers and pretenders to inspiration in the pagan oracles. However, the Corinthians DID NOT speak gibberish which was ONLY the product of MANIA produced by music, drugs, body motions and PROFIT.

    In the literature moira means A part as opposite the Whole; division of a people, of an army, a political party; portion or share which falls to one, esp. in the distribution of booty
The "scholars" have been blinded or intentionally closed their minds in order to become MUSICALLY SECTARIAN to "carry off their share of the booty." Don't they all write books, songs and sell CDs and follow the LUCIFER PRINCIPLE of bleeding off worship due ONLY to a SPIRIT God in our own SPIRIT devoted to the WORD as it has been taught?
    Kathaireô: put down, CLOSE THE EYES OF THE DEAD, of sorcerers, bring down from the sky, overpower, seize, fetch down as a reward or prize of the Agonist: like the simple HAIREIN meaning to take and carry off. We showed you the connection between Aireo which is LIFTING them up by EXCITEMENT. The TOOL is Aoding with non-Biblical, erotic praise songs which strokes all of the pleasure centers.
We told you that to FALL from the presence of the Living Word in The Book of Enoch as explained in three dozen other documents meant that they were SPIRITUALLY dead. They had been seduced to come down to the dark soil of the Cainites (Kenites, Jerusalem Jews) by the use of wine women and song. As explained in Romans 1 the purpose was to fracture souls so that perverted sexuality was so that SATAN the elder could enjoy you. That is why all religious musicians were known as the "harem of the gods."

The CULTURE of that period where Shelly etal says that the people WORKED out their salvation meaning to "partner with God" to produce the Bible, shows us that music was to induce sexual perversion or to superstitiously worship the DEAD.
    Sophocles, Ajax (ed. Sir Richard Jebb)

    Chorus

    Surely his mother, companion of antiquity and [625] grey with age, when she hears that he has been afflicted with the ruin of his mind will raise a loud cry of wailing. It is not the nightingale's piteous lament [630] that she, unhappy, will sing. Rather in SHRILL-toned odes the dirge will rise, while the hollow sound of BEATING HANDS and the shredding of grey hair will fall upon her breast.

    Absolutely, they are wailing for the woes coming upon them but they will not grasp it because their misleaders have convinced them that WORSHIP is Enthus O mania or MADNES (or puking) which proved that it was "the god within." By repudiating Baptism (without the weasel words) they have REFUSED to request A holy spirit so they can discern the Word. Discern does not mean new revelation: it means that God removes the veil so that it is POSSIBLE to read words like SPEAK and not translate it to mean SING CHARISMATICALLY.
Sophocles, Electra (ed. Sir Richard Jebb)
    Chorus

    [233] It is nevertheless with goodwill, like a true-hearted mother, [235] that I dissuade you from BEGETTIN misery upon miseries.

    Electra

    "[236] But what limit has nature begot for my affliction? Tell me, how can it be right to NEGLECT the DEAD? Has such a seed been sown in any mortal? May I never have such men's esteem; [240] never, when I am close to prosperity, may I dwell in ease, hindering the wings of SHRILL lamentation so as to deprive my begetter of his HONORS!

    "For if the dead is to lie a wretch, merely dust and nothingness, [245] while his slayers do not pay back to him blood for blood in penalty, [250] then shame and reverence will vanish from all humanity.
That is why Jesus cast the musical minstrels out like dung: they were continuing the most ancient and ignorant superstition: that you can WORK REAL hard using speech and music to INFLUNCE God Who IS NOT DEAD and therefore He will CAST you out like Lucifer was CAST OUT which in Hebrew means: "To take your inheritance, prune your vines (melody), play the flute, pollute or prostitute as in Revelation 18:22.

The OLD WIVES TALES or babbling included the catalog of songs which were ALWAYS personal until the person was DEAD. For instance, if you sing Fanny Cosby then you speak where Twila speaks and therefore you WORSHIP her. Jesus is not DEAD and therefore only HE has the right to control His songs and sermons and YOU have no authority to make substitutes: unless you confess that He IS dead as the core gospel demands. It always seemed like VICTORY songs as at Mount Sinai but God was pouring out His wrath and they looked to the outsiders as LAUGINGSTOCKS or GAZINGSTOCKS (Theater or spectacle of pseudo worship). In Corinth, they looked MAD or insane pointing directly to the SCORPIONS or LOCUSTS who STING you with maddening music whose words are Anti-Christ because they lament Him as dead.

Amos used a word which says that they, and you, were have a musical festival WITH and FOR dead ancestors. The book of Revelation speaks to these superstitious musical laments and told us that the Dead who die in the Lord are happy: they HOLD and never PLAY their harps. Go thou and do likewise.

Ken

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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