This morning as our minds were being prepared for the Lord’s Supper, this is what the person at the podium said “Let’s upset the world, and have a bumper sticker printed that says “It’s not about me and you, stupid”
That statement hit me pretty hard. He was right, it’s not about us, it’s about GOD. Could this mean we should not criticize others for their worship styles? I think it does. After all, it’s not about us. It’s about HIM.
Everyone has a different take on what true worship is about, and some choose to beat others over the head about what “truth and spirit” means. WHY?? I read this, and simply can not find an order of worship, or musical instruments, or the lack of, or 3 songs, prayer, sermon, invitation, and closing prayer.
JN 4:19 "Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
JN 4:21 Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
JN 4:25 The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
True worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth?? Is this not a condition of the heart? It seems to me it is. So who cares if we have a praise team or a 40 piece band? If your heart ain’t right, then you are just a spectator, not a participant.
I want my heart to be right with GOD. If we all said this, and stopped fighting about stupid things, (color of the carpet, water temperature, praise teams, who’s denomination is the true church, etc.) and started examining ourselves, maybe we will find we really are one Church under our Lord, Jesus.
If not for HIM, and what he did on the Cross, and the promise of life everlasting, there would be no reason for praise and worship.
Maybe our focus should be on the prize, and not the vehicle used to get there.
The context was about PLACES to worship. Jesus said that something had already transpired that made going to PLACES to worship no longer possible.
Jesus said nothing about ATTITUDE while you focus on what the GOD AND FOOD manipulator said: he has fouled the atmosphere and I am quite sure that you were not INSIDE of your mind as you GAVE HEED to the death of Christ.
Paul (I say again) uses GIVING HEED to the Word as the only clear WORSHIP word. And those who GATHERED are defined by a form of the word for SYNAGOGUE. Therefore, the assembly prefigured by the Holy Place and the synagogue (for the people) was for worship in the sense of BIBLE STUDY. T. Campbell called "church" a school of Christ and worship as "reading and thinking about the Word." Even the Lord's Supper is a showing forth or TEACHING activity about Christ's DEATH. No one can create an attitude by preaching about an attitude.
In the early churches the baptized members went into a private place to eat the memorial: it did not have to be gilded by stage management.
Now, John was IN THE SPIRIT on the Lord's Day. I am quite sure that does not mean INSIDE of the holy spirit "person." When people PRAYED in the spirit they were not speaking in tongues: Hannah prayed but her lips didn't move.
Paul said that the once-Jews NOW worshipped IN THE SPIRIT. The spirit is the mind and I just don't see how we can keep fooling one another that we are DOING worship when someone has to SET IT UP or MEDIATE the worship! Try obeying Jesus and going into the closet to worship. That was typified by the Most Holy place where we meet God where the WORD is stored in darkness and silence.
Think about it: this is why we are in a HEAP OF TROUBLE being burden laden by legalistic GOD MANIPULATORS.
The phrase "It's not about me" resonated with me when I heard it also in my former church. It is a Rick Warren phrase which is also stated to Christians from the pulpit as "It's not about you". Unfortunated it resonated so much with me that I also followed their logic to "It is about them" (meaning the unsaved). Everything that was done in my purpose driven church was to create comfort for the people for whom it was about--non-believers. I have been at a non-purpose driven church for 6 months and told my husband that the conclusion of "It is not about me" should have been "It is all about God". I even recently read a biography of an evangelist who said in his devotions that he had found that evangelism had been supplanted in his life for the pure desire for God. This web site is helpful for those of us who are struggling with what is "not quite right" with this movement--because, as you said, some of the statements do hit you as truth...thanks for your post. KC Christian (PS I am not and never have been a member of a CofC church so I can not comment on the music issue)
You probably don't realize it but you were one of the
factors that caused me to get involved with ConcernecMembers.com.
It was your comment to someone over three years ago, that caused me to realize something was evilly wrong at the Madison Church of Christ.
This comment was passed along to me, because at the time, I was a member of the Madison Church of Christ.
Your comment to the effect that; "If we could get rid of all the old folks at the Madison Church, we could make some changes" has rung in my ears many times since then.
I would surmise that the "old folks" you referred to were like the founders of that 60 year old church. The ones that liked the New Testament principles they had held so close over the years.
Now that most of the "Old Folks" have gone it's nice to know you have had a change of heart.
I take it that if you had it to do over again you would not worry about the "worship style".
You know, "The three songs and a prayer" etc.
Don, we don't care how you worship. It was all about how you and your ilk went about taking over the church.
Looking back it was a takeover classic by "change agents" like yourself.
I can only speak for myself, but I have long since forgiven you Don. Your words have been turned into a blessing for me. They have driven me on a journey that has shown me things that were unimaginable to me then. I might say it's been one of the most incredible trips a person could ever take and still be alive to tell about it.
You are partly responsible for me trying to warn others of the incredible take-over of the church by an organized evil. And I thank you.
Why don't you come and join us? I think most of those "Old Folks" that were run off would forgive you.
A simple apology and an acknowledgement of your change of heart, would probably be all it would take.
I have also tracked down the source of the lie that was told on me. What you say is not what I said. But, how would you know, you never came to me privately to ask. I'm afraid I did not have anything to do with the change you speak of. It was GOD that brought the fire.
If you advocate a bumper sticker that attempts to focus people's attention on God, why not simply say, "It's All About God" and remove the "me" and "you"? And do you really think that by including the word "Stupid," a bumper sticker would ever be taken seriously as a "Christian" message? No, it would fall into the same category as those gimmick bumper stickers that proclaim, "My child is an honor student at [you fill in the name] Elementary School" or "Stuff Happens" or even worse. The last thing the Church needs is another worldly gimmick.
I fail to see how preliminary comments about a bumper sticker, especially one sporting "Stupid," would prepare worshipers' minds to take the Lord's Supper (or engage in any form of worship). Instead of "upsetting the world" (which could care less), such a message would only cheapen God.
This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!
...........................THE BOOK
What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?
There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.
This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison
Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource
references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least
you will recognize the signs early on.
Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't
know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.
Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was
one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.
It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of
it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word
of Jesus Christ.
At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority
of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly
realm.
They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and
to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.
The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan.
Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books,
seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change
so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....
At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to
be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched
through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the
"Community Church Movement"
Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready,
or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the
plans very nature, it had to be secret.
The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was
never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last
15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.
The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the
elders went along unwittingly.
This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell
something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill
in some of the timeline.
To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the
background materials in the first of the book.
This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be
printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our
web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison
Here is the list of players;
5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten
commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)