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real presence

August 18 2004 at 10:49 PM
Denise  (no login)
from IP address 69.29.106.155

If you read the Bible carefully, as well as historical accounts of martyrs and other first century Christians, Christians in the first century believed the bread and wine was truly the body and blood of Christ (not a symbol.) Ask yourselves which Church still believes that today. I challenge all of you to read 1st century church history (those martyred in the 1st century) and see for yourselves.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.50.40

RE: Real Presence

August 19 2004, 10:10 AM 

Denise, obviously the Roman Catholics today believe that the Communion elements literally become the body and blood of Christ, but only when blessed by the priest.

Since you mention that if we read the Bible carefully, we will see evidence of that belief in first-century Christians, please cite passages which specifically reveal this. I am unable to recall any at the moment.


 
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(no login)
63.84.81.70

real presence? No.

August 19 2004, 10:44 AM 

Better yet, why not quote some of those scholars or point us to the evidence. Until then, I say, BUNK.

Most pagans got high on wine or music and tore living animals apart, ate the flesh and drank the blood: they were EATING and DRINKING the god or gods. That was what was going on in the Marzeah condemned by Amos and by the Agapae which the church had to discard to continue to become Christian.

John Mark Hicks thinks that the Lord's Supper is an old testament SACRIFICE where we eat WITH the god with Jubilation.

But, Jesus spoke to the clergy in parables to hid the truth. After His discourse on the FLESH and BLOOD to fool the fools, he told the true disciples (students)

    John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

We EAT and DRINK the "GOD" by eating and drinking the Words of a Spirit God and they are therefore Spirit and Life.

The Lord's Supper has no more magic than preaching a sermon: it is to SHOW FORTH which means PREACH the Death of God in Christ--nothing more and nothing less. To have put magical power into it would not move the disciples away from the FLESH to the SPIRIT.

The POWER was in the shedding of blood and death: the resurrection is PROOF that it happened. We are told to honor the DEATH of Christ and not celebrate "easter" or Ishtar or ASTER who is Lucifer or Zoe.

The MASS, like Baptist baptism, demands that Jesus be murdered over and over and over and over: sometimes on Wednesday night or every morning. There is pure blood lust trying to keep the people superstitious and ignorant.

http://www.piney.com/MailBlood.html

I will post some other stuff soon.

Ken

 
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68.19.238.162

The Doctrine of “Transubstantiation”

August 22 2004, 4:45 AM 

Is the observance of the Lord’s Supper a ritualistic practice of cannibalism—eating the real body and drinking the real blood of Christ? Or, is it an emblem or a memorial of Christ’s suffering, crucifixion and death on the cross? In the Last Supper, while Christ’s “real presence” among the disciples was there, why was there a need for the bread and the “fruit of the vine” (Matt. 26:29) as the “physical” elements at the table? And notice the symbolism in the blood—“my blood of the new testament” (v. 28) or “this cup is the new testament in my blood (I Cor. 11:25).

Note how the Roman Catholic Church invented the doctrine of transubstantiation (the conversion of the Eucharistic bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ)—the date assigned to this belief was during the Fourth Lateran Council held in 1215. The RCC wants to now call it as the doctrine of “the Real Presence” in order to take you back to the original Last Supper. Yet the RCC contradicts itself when “real” bread and fruit of the vine were literal elements used symbolically to represent the body and blood while Christ’s presence was also “real”—think about that for a minute. How innovative, disguising and disgusting!

Note also the “behavior” of the priest who conducts the Mass/ritual and the Eucharist. I Cor. 11:28 states, “But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.” Since “literal” means literal to the Catholic Church in this instance, the Catholic priest takes the expression “drink ye all of it” literally. Surprisingly, where it says “drink the cup,” the priest does not swallow the cup. Unsurprisingly, the priest afterwards enjoys the benefit of drinking the rest of the wine (leftover) in the big cup. Does this explain why there is drunkenness in the priesthood, when the “real presence” of the priest among the parishioners is no longer there after the Mass? Hmmm!

Donnie

 
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