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Dr. Bill Crump
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207.69.50.183

Parable of the Alumni Reunion

April 30 2005, 3:13 PM 

Once upon a time, Dan, a graduate of a Church of Christ university, attended a class reunion. While renewing old acquaintances with fellow alumni, he ran across Burt. Naturally, they shared war stories of their present careers, then Dan asked Burt where he attended church. Burt, who now lived out of state, hesitated for a moment, shifted from one foot to the other, then casually remarked that he had left the Church of Christ for one of the denominations. When Dan also casually asked what prompted Burt to leave, the latter laughed a little and mentioned that “nonsense” about the Church of Christ being the only Christians and that they were too narrow minded. Then Burt stated that they were not at all in line with the Scriptures.

Well, Dan had heard the bit about “the only Christians” and “narrow minded” time and time again; these he shrugged off. But Burt had essentially accused the Church of Christ of being a false religion, and that demanded an explanation.

Dan: “Oh, what makes us not ‘in line’ with the Scriptures?”

Burt: “You’re just not scriptural.”

Dan: “You said that before. Please tell me what’s wrong with us.”

Burt: “What do you care why I left? I don’t have to tell you anything.”

Dan: “I disagree. You have made an accusation against my faith, and I’d like for you either to tell me why my faith is not scriptural, or apologize immediately.”

Burt: “Listen, you, I'll apologize for NOTHING! I go out into the highways and byways and bring them in. I point people to Christ. I worry more about caring for the destitute than whether something is ‘scriptural’ or not. How many have YOU ever pointed to Christ? Have you EVER pointed anyone to Christ?”

Dan paused and studied Burt.

Burt: “So, you’re not going to answer my questions? I knew you didn’t have the guts!”

Dan: “You still haven’t answered MY question.”

Burt (sweating and panting): “Alright, Mr. Sanctimonious, I’ll tell you why. It’s because of your DOCTRINE!”

Dan: “OK, what about our doctrine?”

Burt: “It’s not scriptural.”

Dan: “Is there some reason why you can’t or won’t give me specifics about the allegedly false doctrine in the Church of Christ? Why are you being so evasive and uncooperative?”

Burt: “Oh, so you’re Perry Mason, now? I think you work for the KGB!”

Dan: “Burt, Church of Christ faith and doctrine are based strictly on the New Testament, nothing more. That goes for me as well. We don’t read anything more into it than what’s already written there. It’s not complex and is easily comprehended, if you’ll just trust Christ to guide you. Take His and the apostles’ writings at face value. Don’t try to twist them around to suit your own pleasures or preferences. Now if you have a better faith or a stronger doctrine, please tell me so that I can get in on it.”

Burt: “So, Mr. Judgmental, if I don’t subscribe to YOUR doctrine, I’ll go to HELL! Right, Mr. Judgmental? You’d love that, wouldn’t you? You’ll do anything to put forth YOUR preferences as divine principles! You Church of Christ are all alike!!”

Dan: “We’re not the author of our doctrine -- Christ is. I don’t recall having ever ‘judged’ you. I marvel that you are getting so defensive, and you still haven’t answered my question.”

Burt: Well, look at you! It’s just like you Campbellites, making up YOUR own doctrine and ascribing it to Christ! And I’ll answer you NOTHING!”

Dan: “Then I must conclude that your accusations against the Church of Christ are completely unfounded, because you cannot or will not tell me what is specifically wrong with our doctrine. You make wild accusations, but you cannot back them up with Scripture. Could it be that you cannot endure Church of Christ doctrine, because it follows the New Testament to the letter? ‘Too close for comfort,’ as the saying goes?”

Burt rushed at Dan with clenched fists and teeth as if he would strike him down, then checked himself: “You miserable, rotten *&^$#!!” and stalked off.

And the Teacher put forth the premise that those who leave the Church of Christ over alleged doctrinal issues are unwilling or unable to accept the New Testament’s teachings at face value. Or they fall back on the Old Testament if the New doesn’t satisfy their notions, in violation of Gal. 5:4. Furthermore, when called to task for their actions, they become belligerent and defensive. If the New Testament says “X,” these folks see “Y.” They erroneously claim that the Scriptures do not reveal simple truth, that the “truth” presented therein is whatever the reader comprehends it to be; that is, there is no absolute truth. They seem to believe that Christ’s commands are a bunch of multiple-choice quizzes that offer multiple interpretations. For example, folks may leave the Church of Christ over the doctrinal issue of baptism. When Christ said that those who believe and are baptized will be saved but that those who don’t will be damned (Mark 16:16), He wasn’t offering folks a choice about baptism. His very words demand that baptism be coupled with belief for salvation. It’s just as simple as that. Yet many claiming far greater “wisdom” say that Christ really didn’t mean what He said, that only faith, not baptism, is necessary for salvation, because far more passages elsewhere mention only faith. Unfortunately those people, thinking that the Bible follows the man-made “majority rules” concept, play numbers games with Scripture by refusing to give each and every passage equal importance, whether it occurs only once or a million times. Those who rebel against the Scriptures want to see them altered or replaced with something more acceptable, so they leave the Church of Christ and find denominations that are more than willing to cater to their “needs.”

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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207.69.48.117

Parable of the Alumni Reunion - Epilogue

May 1 2005, 2:25 PM 

Later that evening, Dan and Burt happened to run into each other again, this time out in the parking lot as they were leaving the reunion. Dan could tell that Burt was still fuming and was desperately trying to control his violent temper:

Burt: "Listen, you miserble, rotten *&$#@, don't you even begin to start in on me, if you know what's good for you! I can't believe that a so-called 'Christian' like you would DARE to judge me! 'Too close for comfort,' my *&$#!! If I weren't a Christian, I'd put you in the hospital for the rest of your miserable, rotten, *&$#@ life!!!"

Dan: "Man, you're totally out of control, so I'm not going to argue with you. You may be just a bit drunk. But I will make these observations: One, true Christians don't use profanity. Two, true Christians don't easily succumb to anger and desire to beat up other people, let alone other Christians. Three, true Christians don't need alcohol or other stimulants to lead meaningful, godly lives. And four, true Christian members of the Church of Christ are too firmly rooted in their faith and the Scriptures to be lured away by the doctrinal permissiveness and man-contrived liberties of the denominations. Think on these things. Now I'm calling you a cab to get you back to your hotel."



 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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207.69.49.249

Parable of Dissenters and Deceit

June 21 2005, 12:10 PM 

Once upon a time, The Company was a well respected organization that operated on a set of strict, but highly impeccable standards. The Company’s members all followed those standards faithfully, and life was good. Then Another Company sprang up, the standards of which were far more lax, frankly loose and corrupt, and attracted many of The Company’s members away. So The Company decided to hold a public forum and invited its former members to offer suggestions for improvement to keep its members from leaving.

Among those who had fled to Another Company were dissenters Tom Ticked-Off, Dick Dumkopf, and Harry Hostile. Though they found others with rebellious souls, they needed more “voices” of opposition for the forum. So they recruited Anne Onnamuss, a woman plagued with personal problems. Although Anne had never been a member, she held a vicious grudge against The Company, because some of her relatives were members thereof; hence, by psychological transference, she held The Company responsible for her circumstances. “Anne wails and hollers much,” said Tom, Dick, and Harry to one another. “We’ll sneak her in the back door, where she’ll gain sympathy and make those fools at The Company look like heinous villains. We’ll turn The Company into mush!” Anne readily agreed.

The forum commenced, and the chairman spoke: “We welcome comments, but those who speak MUST be former members. We seek constructive criticism from you who left. Bashing and criticizing is of no effect. You can help us keep our other members from leaving. What should we do? And please, identify yourselves.

Well, those who spoke did exactly what The Company had NOT requested: people under the cover of “Anonymous,” “No-Name,” “Guess Who?” and “You Tell Me” bashed, criticized, and hurled petty, generic accusations by the truckloads. Not one constructive criticism was offered. Furthermore, not once could the alleged faults be attributed to The Company having violated its standards. And then Anne spoke. Long-winded, passionate, emotionally charged. The Company had been “too restrictive,” too harsh, too demanding, too rigid, too this, too that -- all superficial accusations without a hint of substance.

“Madam, just how long were you a member? Please be more specific about our alleged ‘faults,’ said the chairman. Anne flushed, mumbled that she had never been a member, then grew viciously defensive and launched a horrendous diatribe against The Company: “Who in the &%*$ are YOU to judge me, you sanctimonious, deceitful hypocrites? Some of your members hurt me, and therefore your whole Company is responsible! You are just here to trick us, because you have an AGENDA! I despise all of your kind! I hope you die in agony! Blast you all to #&$%!”

“Madam,” said the chairman, “you indeed have problems, but they by no means excuse your barging in here with vain and superficial abuses against us. Why, you’re not even a member, yet you came here as one to vent your personal vengeance against us. That is indeed despicable! You, having gained entrance here through deception, would have the unmitigated GALL to accuse us of having an agenda through deceit! You are indeed disturbed, madam, and I counsel you to seek professional help! And as for the rest of you former members, I despise anonymity. I now see that you left because of petty conflicts and personal grudges, because you had not the courage to settle them like mature adults. If our impeccable standards cannot fortify you to resolve little conflicts and personal issues, then you do not belong with us, for the spirit of The Company is not in you. That is what drove you to abuse our forum, to seek to hurt us and injure us. Therefore, return to the false solace of Another Company and live their life of entertainment and self-indulgence!” And with those words, the chairman closed the forum, despite last-minute railings and protests from other dissenters who saw that they were about to be denied an opportunity to jab and punch The Company further.

And the Teacher explained that “The Company” is the Church of Christ, which lives by the impeccable standards as set forth in the New Testament. “Another Company” is the Change Movement and its denominational world, which would fault the Church of Christ for maintaining such impeccable standards. Mature individuals must deal with personal problems themselves; blaming an entire faith such as the Church of Christ for those problems is completely irrational. Worse is resorting to deception to cast doubt on the Church of Christ.


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.67.99

Parable of "Rebels" and "Renegades"

August 6 2005, 1:27 PM 

Two men found themselves in a discussion about salvation. Charles was quite liberal and embraced the Purpose-Driven Church Movement. Josh was quite conservative and strongly embraced the New Testament’s teachings in all things. As they went back and forth, Josh presented New Testament Scripture, while Charles quoted world leaders, denominational pastors, and the latest recommendations from best-selling books and popular magazines. In short, Josh presented the requirements for salvation as outlined in the New Testament (hear, believe, repent, confess, be baptized), whereas Charles put up the usual arguments that the New Testament was outmoded and needed revising to accommodate today’s progressive society [which worships self-esteem and pop culture]. During the conversation, Josh commented that he would not want flatly to ignore the New Testament, for that would make him a rebel and a renegade against Christ. At this, Charles’ demeanor abruptly changed. As fire flashed from his eyes and smoke from his ears, the conversation went thusly:

Charles: Back off and back up! You slammin’ me? Are you actually sitting there and SLAMMIN’ ME just because I don’t agree with YOU about your legalistic “New Testament”? “Rebel” and “renegade” my *&%$#! Why, you *&%$# hypocrite! How DARE you remotely THINK of judging me, you *&%$# little maggot!

Josh: Wait just a sec, old buddy. Why are you suddenly so defensive with such vile profanity? Where did you get the idea that I was “slammin’” you, “judging” you, and calling you a “rebel” and “renegade”? I said that if I didn’t follow the New Testament, then that made me a “renegade” and a “rebel” against Christ.

Charles: Oh, no, you *&%$# hypocrite! Don’t try to weasel out of this! And I’m NOT your “buddy”! Your implication is all too clear! I follow the New Testament, same as you, maybe even BETTER. I just don’t believe that EVERY WORD of it is credible. Some of it is sheer nonsense! I’m not naïve like you! You talk of my “vile profanity.” I can’t believe that a so-called “Christian” such as you claim to be (what a joke!) would treat me in such a VILE manner!

John: You’re overreacting, Charles, and there’s no need for your continual profanity. You’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t call YOU a renegade and rebel. But what more fitting words describe those who deliberately reject each and every teaching of the New Testament? We don’t have the authority to second-guess Christ on anything, for Christ IS the ultimate authority.

Charles: HOGWASH and BALDERDASH! Now he’s judging my “language skills!” You’re too much of a *&%$# coward to admit that you just called me a renegade and a rebel, you judgmental *&%$#! How about THAT language? Christ said for us to LOVE each other! Instead, all you do is SLAM me and call me a renegade and a rebel! Well, you’re supposed to LOVE ME! So here’s what you can do with your “renegade” and “rebel” -- [SWOOSH -swings at Josh, who ducks].

Josh: Have you lost your mind? What kind of demonstration of “love” is this? You’re trying to break my neck because I recommend following the New Testament? If I didn’t love YOU, I wouldn’t care a whit what “doctrine” you followed!

Charles: Stand still and take your medicine like a man, idiotic *&%$#! You don’t love ANYONE! You’re too busy slammin’ folks and calling them “rebels” and “renegades”! Take THAT [WHOOM --swings wildly again but misses].

And the Teacher ended the story line at this point, leaving the reader to contemplate how it turned out. The Teacher did emphasize that “rebel” and “renegade” fitly describe those Christians who flatly reject portions of the New Testament because of personal prejudices and preferences. Abundant evidence further illustrates that these renegades and rebels react viciously even to gentle admonitions to return to the New Testament way, for they are too preoccupied in rabidly promoting their worldly agenda. Unable to defend their philosophy with Scripture, these renegades and rebels typically become highly defensive and irrational. With their "Christian" veneers stripped away, they brutally attack those who admonish them, utilizing insults, sarcasm, character assassinations, and reverse incriminations (that is, those who admonish suddenly become the judgmental villains, etc.). Such a “defense” from rebels and renegades is a poor defense indeed.




 
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Benny Speck
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68.52.119.201

Parable of 2 doctors

August 13 2005, 3:05 PM 

There were two medical students at Vanderbilt, a rather prestigious place to say the least. One graduated in the top 5% of his class, the other in the bottom 5%. The former went on to internship and residency at Cedars Sinai in LA while the latter did his at General Hospital in Nashville. After completion of the requirements they chose different paths. The former decided to go on to Harvard for an MBA while the latter chose to stay in the community and serve the poor as a staff doctor at General.

The former rose quickly in hospital administration, with a focus on managing the cost of healthcare. He continued his climb to the presidency of the largest hospital management group in the world. Their profits were unmatched, but the level of healthcare was considered slightly above average. He truly made the most of his situation from a financial perspective.

The latter worked all the different areas at General, which had the busiest emergency room in the city. The poor seem to use it as the doctor's office when something goes wrong. Then there are the beaten, stabbed and shot that seem to come in droves due to the nature of their community and life choices. The latter doctor learned quickly how to treat all the trauma cases, and seemed to have a real concern for the lives of those he encountered. The staff appreciated his dedication and the patients would many times ask for him by name.

Both doctors seem to have found success in their chosen occupations. One had much better knowledge than the other from the educational perspective. The other had more "hands on" experience in delivering the care that the people needed.

Which one would you consider the better doctor?

BS

 
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Ken Sublett
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63.84.81.95

2 More Doctors!

August 13 2005, 8:14 PM 

Wow, Awesome as they say and say and say: I know two very similar.

One of they took the Hippocratic oath--you know of the twisted serpents?

The other took the Hypocritic oath--you know of the twisted sisters? As a hypocrit he was cursed with being able only to speak, sing or dance his magical pharmakea like Circe the holy whore of John's vision casting.

Waaal-uh, One of them learned the rules of medicine some still good from ancient Babylonia. He used very researched medicine and never gave too much to create more harm than good.

The other was SUPPORTED to learn the same rules but he decided that there was more money in being a witchdoctor. You know, among the Greeks rhetoricians, sOPHISts (serpents), singers, musicians, craftsmen (idol makers, theater builders, stage managers) were all proud to join the Sorcerer's Society of Satan (S.S.S.). It really didn't matter that people thought of them as parasites as long as they could sell 30 million magical incantations. You know, lack of Sex in your marriage, lack of humility and bad breath.

The first doctor trained in finance and ethics used good business methods to help build the hospital and even built a clinic of his own.

However, the witchdoctor--as witchdoctors will do--decided to use his music or magical incantations to put a HEX on a church where he could SAVE MORE SOULS. So, he did.

The HONEST doctor lived to an old age and was respected by all and went to sleep happy at aged 95.

Well! the people who can be fooled most of the time (Paul) finally caught on that the MEDICINE he claimed to get direct from THE physician began to accumulate in his audience, they became very sick, many died in self defense. When the found out that they had been huckstered all of their life and had spent all of their money on MAGICAL TITHES and SUPERNATURAL OFFERINGS they held the witchdoctor turned traitor in contempt.

As pendulums swing he discovered that he had caught the THIRD WAVE but it was really a Tsunami he had created by drying up the ocean. Well, you know the rest of the story, he lived out is miserable life he had lived on the backs of widows quite alone with the bitterness he had fed others suddenly accumulating in him so that he dreamed of being suspended over hell by a spider web until he died screaming: "If there is a God then be merciful to me a sinner IF I am a sinner."

Which would you rather be?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.66.196

Parable of 2 Doctors (The Rest of the Story)

August 14 2005, 11:21 AM 

After reviewing this parable, the Teacher was amused and greatly suspected that "Benny Speck" was merely an alias, perhaps of a disgruntled soul in the healthcare profession, but no matter there. That the parable was signed with the colorful initials "BS," as if attempting to bestow a dash of contempt on the entire thread, made the Teacher even chuckle.

Although he was grateful to BS for starting the parable, the Teacher saw that it was not complete. The full story of the two doctors had not been told, neither had BS provided an interpretation. So it became the Teacher's task to correct BS's failings.

The Teacher saw the prime clue in this part of the parable:

"Both doctors seem to have found success in their chosen occupations. One had much better knowledge than the other from the educational perspective. The other had more 'hands on' experience in delivering the care that the people needed."

One day yet another patient presented himself to the "hands-on" doc (we'll call him HO). But since HO had inferior knowledge, he failed to recognize the symptoms and began a course of therapy that proved ineffective. When the patient worsened, he lost confidence in HO and finally found the offices of the more knowledgeable doc (we'll call him IQ), who provided the correct diagnosis and treatment. A detailed description of the ailment and its treatment was clearly printed in the general medical textbook, yet HO was too preoccupied to read it to gain the necessary knowledge that would have benefited his patient. Though HO had a congenial personality and an excellent bedside manner, this was not the first time that HO had failed a patient because of his inferior knowledge of medicine.

And the Teacher explained that both docs are Christians. The general medical text is the New Testament, which provides instructions for diagnosing and treating all spiritual illnesses. Yet the instructions are of no value if they are not read and studied diligently. Hence, those who attempt to practice "Christianity" without a good working knowledge of how to stay on track spiritually could lead others astray with the glitz and glitter of false doctrines, such as those of the Purpose-Driven Church Movement; that leads to spiritual disaster.

He who hath an ear...



 
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Benny
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68.52.119.201

Parable of the 2 doctors...the Great Physician comments

August 15 2005, 10:35 AM 

What a privilege it is to be in the company of scholars like Ken and Dr. Crump. I wasn't aware that parables could be rewritten or extended, but that is consistent when one is not satisfied with the outcome presented. Let's take a look at the Crump rendition.

Notice the pride exhibited in ascribing the "Teacher" role to himself. Error one surfaces in his belief that there must be an interpretation for the parable. Some do have them and some don't. It's up to the teller of the story to decide.

While he speaks of doctrinal error in an attempt to explain his own parable, not the one that was first delivered, he limits the counsel of God to just the NT. He should know better than to limit the full counsel to OT and NT both. The Great Physician came to fulfill not replace the counsel. The Teacher tries to limit the healing to spirit only, while the Great Physician is concerned with the entire patient.

Once again we see the "expert in the medical law" trying to teach his own doctrine, more concerned with form than application and result. This is the only group that ever receives the full wrath of the Great Physician.

When the Great Physician speaks be careful not to add or subtract from what He writes.

BS

ps...just out of curiosity Dr. Crump, did you ever work the ER? If so, did you learn more from what you had amassed from the books or the actual experiences that you encountered with the traumatized? Book knowledge is great, but practical experience is the best teacher. If it's not like that in medicine, please let us know. It would seem to me that surgeons that have perfomed a procedure multiple times get better with practice.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.217.126.139

RE:...The Great Physician Comments

August 15 2005, 7:05 PM 

Ole "BS" failed to include an interpretation with his parable, so the Teacher did it for him. BS should have known that all parables have interpretations, whether the teller provides them, or readers deduce them for themselves. If there's no interpretation, a parable conveys no lesson. BS took offense to the Teacher's interpretation and now he is all whacked out over it. Had BS provided his own interpretation from the start, there may not have been much room for comment (or maybe there would). And since BS disliked the Teacher's interpretation, he then tried to turn the tables and attempted to make the Teacher look like the villain (and even blasted Ken Sublett a little, too). Yes, BS was really whacked out. Just typical change agent tactics, pure and simple. BTW, BS, I enjoyed the "expert in the medical law" and the other sophomoric sarcasms. Ever think about ditching your anonymity for some real-life identification?

And yes, not only have I have worked the ER, but the OB/GYN wards, the Internal Medicine floors, the surgical suites, the C-section tables, the pathology labs, and the autopsy suites to boot, all as a Doctor of Medicine. You might say I've made the "rounds." I am now a retired pathologist. And you know what I found from all my "hands-on experiences"? Not only does having good medical KNOWLEDGE keep a doc from harming or killing patients, the patients expect, nay, DEMAND our expertise to boot. And it doesn't matter whether the hospital is private, city, or county: patients, rich or poor alike, deserve compassionate care from competent doctors who have good medical KNOWLEDGE.

So to conclude back on track, KNOWLEDGE is just as essential to the practice of good medicine as biblical KNOWLEDGE is to the practice of good Christianity.

Peace be with you, dear BS.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.217.126.60

Biblical Knowledge vs. Good Works

August 16 2005, 12:23 AM 

Although alias “Bennie Speck” got off on a medical tangent (as change agents are prone to do to divert the discussion), he seems to be of the notion that we cannot diligently study the New Testament and practice “hands-on” Christianity at the same time; apparently he sees them as mutually exclusive. At least every time we mention studying the NT, he or someone like him objects, diminishes the value of study, and asserts that only good works, such as caring for the needy, make one a Christian. As I recall, this subject has been discussed before in another thread, so we need not belabor it again over and over.

So I’ll just conclude by saying that good works are fine and desirable, but without working biblical KNOWLEDGE, a person may pass along false doctrines or incorrect notions about the Scriptures to others. After all, it only stands to reason that if Christians minister to people’s physical needs, they should be well prepared to minister to their spiritual needs as well. And with proper knowledge of what the New Testament requires, all ministrations are carried out more effectively.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.217.126.131

Parable of the Teacher Who Held a Class for Writing Parables

August 16 2005, 2:40 PM 

Once upon a time, a man of somewhat advanced years and most wise beyond them began a class for writing parables concerning the fallacies of the Purpose-Driven Church Movement. This wise man felt that parables with strong morals and punch lines would more quickly arouse people’s awareness of this malignant Movement that was consuming churches by the thousands.

The man was gratified to see his class filled with bright faces eager to learn. So the man not only educated them in proper grammar and sentence structure, he honed their skills in creative storytelling and also provided proper biblical knowledge that the students would need to combat detractors. He was patient and most fatherly, such that in time his students affectionately called him “Teacher.”

The time came when the Teacher assigned each student the task of writing their first parable about the PDC Movement. All but one of the students had carried out the assignment to the letter: strong story line, biblical references that refuted PDC philosophy, and a solid interpretation to drive home the message. These students received a grade of “A.” Ben, the student who failed the assignment, confronted the Teacher, who acknowledged that his story line about two doctors, one with far more medical knowledge than the other, had been original. Ben had failed, however, because the parable had included neither a definitive interpretation nor any biblical references to refute the PDC Movement.

Ben (with a little sneer): “I didn’t give an interpretation, because I thought it would be most obvious to any reasonably intelligent person.”

Teacher: “Alright, to me, although the doc with more hands-on experience meant well, his inferior medical knowledge led him to misdiagnose and mismanage patients more often than the doc who had more knowledge. And the doc with better knowledge would have had less trouble hands-on. And I'd run as far away as I could from any doc whom I knew had inferior medical knowledge.

Ben (practically shouting): “OH, son of a….! That’s NOT what I intended AT ALL!”

Teacher: “Please watch yourself and lower your voice, young puppy. That’s what comes when you fail to provide a definitive interpretation. So humor me by telling me your interpretation that was supposed to have been ‘most obvious.’”

Ben: “That having more knowledge does not make a doctor a better care giver than one with inferior knowledge. It is the doctor who has the more “hands-on experience” who gives better care.”

Teacher: “I see. And how does that relate to the PDC Movement? Better yet, how does that refute the PDC Movement?”

Ben (with a slight edge to his voice): “It relates only to the fact that a Christian doesn’t need to study the Bible to care for the needy. Christ measures a Christian only by how much he cares for and does for others. How much ‘Bible’ he knows is irrelevant and sure won’t get him into heaven. You want some ‘Bible’? OK, ‘Teach,’ how about when Jesus said to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick, etc?”

Teacher: “You mean Matt. 25:34-46 (KJV). Yes, that’s only part of being a Christian. But it’s not all. Yet you seem to fixate only on caring for others. Would you overlook Matt. 7:21-27 (KJV) or Luke 6:46-49 (KJV)? How about 1 John 5:1-3 (KJV)? These passages state that it is necessary to follow ALL of Christ’s commandments; and in order to KNOW what the New Testament requires, a Christian must read and study the whole New Testament. It’s not enough just to care for the needy and ignore the rest of the New Testament. (BTW, Christians cannot fall back, adhere to the Old Testament, and thus serve two laws. Since Jesus fulfilled the OT, we are no longer bound by the Mosaic Law and its statutes.) Any non-Christian can care for the needy just as well as a Christian. And Eph. 2:9 (KJV) would counter your impression that works of themselves can save. We are saved by the grace of God/Christ, but only if we are willing to submit to and obey Him in all that He has commanded us. For instance, have you obeyed His command to be baptized for remission of sins and salvation as Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21 (all KJV) stipulate? Baptism is not a work. It is an act of obedience to Christ’s command.

Ben (with clenched teeth): “Old man, don’t quote me all that legalistic ‘Jesus Law’ nonsense!”

Teacher: “Now I see clearly. You enrolled in my class under false pretenses. You never intended to refute the PDC Movement through parables. You obviously sympathize with that Movement which, like you, softens or blatantly rejects portions of the New Testament, because the NT itself condemns your doctrinal perversions.

With a curse, Ben stomped from the room and out into oblivion.

And the interpretation of this parable is that Christians are on the right track if they not only read and study the New Testament to gain knowledge of Christ’s commands, but if they also apply that profound knowledge to all walks of the Christian life.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.66.84

Parable of the Doctor (by John Waddey)

January 7 2006, 4:22 PM 

PARABLE OF THE DOCTOR



Most of those who read these lines have a doctor they visit occasionally for his medical opinion, advice and treatment. Edward is a good doctor. When his patients come to him, his diagnosis is determined by the condition he finds when they are examined. To some patients he says, "You are fine. Keep on with just what you have been doing." To others his report is unpleasant. "You have a problem." For some patients the problem can be cured with a change in diet, or with exercise or medication. For others surgery is a necessity. Some have a condition that is fatal and is too far advanced to resolve.

Dr. Edward is not his enemy when he tells a patient, "You have heart trouble or cancer." He might be able to help them if they listen to his advice and accept his treatment. But should Dr. Ed be so timid that he cannot admit to himself that his patient is ill; if he cannot bear to do surgery on a patient who needs it, he would be a failure as a physician and actually a danger to those who trust their physical well-bring to his hands.

So it is in Christ. Preachers in many ways are like a doctor. We too have to make diagnoses. We too sometimes have to tell our patients bad news. We occasionally have to use the scalpel to save a person or a congregation from a dangerous situation. A preacher will not help the Cause of Christ if he pretends the spiritually sick Christian or church has no problem. In fact he is dangerous to those who look to him for spiritual guidance. To be faithful preachers, we must not shrink to declare the whole counsel of God to our hearers (Acts 20: 27). We must be willing to reprove, rebuke and exhort with sound doctrine (II Tim. 4:2-3). When Paul delivered an unpleasant diagnosis to the church in Galatia, he felt compelled to ask them "Am I become your enemy, by telling you the truth?" (Gal. 4:16). We find no joy in diagnosing the problems that the change movement cause the church. But like a good physician we have no choice but to do so.

JHW


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.66.84

Parable of the Birds (by John Waddey)

January 7 2006, 4:31 PM 

PARABLE OF THE BIRDS



This morning while riding my bike, I came upon a fascinating scene. A group of ten or so black birds were in hot pursuit of a barn owl. The owl was as large as all ten of his pursuers. Taking them one at a time he could easily overpower, defeat and devour any one of them. But when faced with ten determined black birds, he could only flee, and that he did. Owls are carnivores. They like to raid the nests of other, weaker birds. Left unchallenged, the nestlings will be his meal. Parent birds have a natural instinct to protect their nest and its precious contents. Those who do not, lose their little ones to the predator.

So it is in the kingdom of Christ. Satan is the great predator. Like a roaring lion he walks about seeking whom he may devour (I Pet. 5:8). Look as you may, you won't see an actual lion or the typical artist's image of Satan. Peter uses a simile (as a roaring lion). Today Satan is sending his agents into congregations of God's people across the land to capture them or at least to snatch out those they can (Matt. 7:15).

The preachers of the change movement are like the big birds that prey on the nestlings. Many of them occupy stations in large, wealthy and influential churches. They use this advantage to influence and lead away those who are young, immature and untaught in the fundamentals of the faith. Also professors in those Christian universities that have embraced the change agenda are like the predator birds. They capture the hearts and minds of young students whom unsuspecting parents send their way. They send them home to spread the change message in the churches

The little birds are the hundreds of ordinary preachers who spend their days toiling in the vineyard of their local congregation. They have neither wealth, power nor high credentials but they love the church and God's people. They cannot sit idle and watch while the predators sweep in and snatch their brethren away from the simplicity and purity of the gospel (II Cor. 11:3). Alone, one small preacher might not be able to accomplish much, but working together with others, they can have enough force and influence to put to flight those who would harm the church.

I urge every man among us, be he young or old, whether he be plain or polished, to rise up to defend the church of the Lord Jesus. If we do nothing, great harm will surely follow. If we choose to act alone, we will find the odds insurmountable. But working together and with God's help we can put an army of aliens to flight (Heb. 11:34).

"Dear Lord in heaven, please help us to be as wise as the lowly blackbirds which you have made. Give us the courage to resist those who would harm the bride of your Son. In Jesus' name."

John Waddey




 
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JC_1335
(Login JC_1335)
172.165.141.55

vineyard parable

January 7 2006, 7:54 PM 

Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard.
My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.

4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

7 For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.


8 Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!

9 In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.

10 Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.

11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!

12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.

13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.

14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.

15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

16 But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

17 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat.

Isaiah 5:1-17 KJV.

 
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JC_1335
(Login JC_1335)
172.168.103.22

parable of the 10 virgins

January 8 2006, 10:15 AM 

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.66.87

Parable of the Human Aberrations VS. Truth

January 7 2006, 7:19 PM 

At the request of Dr.Crump, this post has been removed.


I fear I have written a most odious parable that has caused hurt to a fellow Christian. Please remove the "Parable of the Human Aberrations VS. Truth" in the "Parables" thread, Madison Church site.

Thanks,
Bill



    
This message has been edited by ConcernedMembers from IP address 65.1.123.224 on Jan 10, 2006 9:57 AM


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.69.117

Coming Attractions

January 8 2006, 3:16 PM 

Rest assured, the "not normal" line and the "flying leap" line will return in future parables and stories. They may appear together or separately. Check back often.

 
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Kent aka Trash
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66.189.13.108

Re: Coming Attractions

January 8 2006, 6:22 PM 

oh i will, i will. I'll be waiting with GREAT anticipation!

 
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JC_1335
(Login JC_1335)
172.131.158.29

"The little foxes that are ruining the vineyards"

January 9 2006, 10:09 PM 

"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." - John 15:5 kjv.

"Catch the foxes for us, The little foxes that are ruining the vineyards, While our vineyards are in blossom." "My beloved is mine, and I am his; He pastures {his flock} among the lilies. - Song of Solomon 2:15,16 nas.

 
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KEN SUBLETT
(no login)
4.152.177.146

Foxes=Jackels=Wolves=Perverts

January 9 2006, 11:32 PM 

The FOXES are JACKALS: when you turn to wine, women and song you starve the people to death for lack of the Word of God. As a result God BREAKS DOWN THE WALL (using Promise Keepers) to let the BEAST PEOPLE in to eat up your inheritance. When God SINGS to you WATCH OUT:

Isa 5:1 NOW will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:

Isa 5:2 And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.

Isa 5:3 And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.

Isa 5:4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

Isa 5:5 And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

Isa 5:6 And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

Isa 5:7 For the vineyard of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

Isa 5:8 Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth

Isa 5:9 In mine ears said the Lord of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.

Isa 5:10 Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.

Isa 5:11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them

Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the Lord, neither consider the operation of his hands.

Isa 5:13 Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.

Isa 5:14 Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
    Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

    Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

    Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

    Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

    Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 5:15 And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:

Isa 5:16 But the Lord of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.

Isa 5:17 Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat.

The Hebrew for MELODY means to "PRUNE YOUR VINES" OR "STEAL YOUR INHERITANCE.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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