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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.217.163.59

Parable of Singing vs. Instruments

February 4 2006, 1:14 PM 

Richard My-Own-Way was a denominational pastor who believed that his church must remain relevant to society. After, all, his services needed to be entertaining and attractive enough to keep people coming back week after week. A particularly effective “drawing card” was to employ a loud praise band that played raucous rock music, similar to what people listened to on the radio.

One day Bill Right-Path, an old friend from college, was passing through town and dropped in on Richard for a visit. They exchanged the usual amenities and nostalgic stories of yesteryear and really had a fine visit. Then as Bill was about to leave, he said almost in passing, “Rich, you really should think about ridding your church of that worldly music that you play every week. It’s bad enough that it caters to carnal desires, what with the hip swinging and that boogie-time “get down” attitude it fosters in youth, but the New Testament just doesn’t authorize any kind of instruments in worship at all.”

Richard: “Bill, we’ve been down that road a thousand times through the years. You say the NT doesn’t authorize instruments, I say the NT doesn’t forbid instruments. It’s all a matter of preference. What’s the big deal? Instruments are a MOOT POINT! They were used in the Old Testament! Jesus even worshiped with them, for...[Rich considered an expletive but abandoned it]...goodness sake! What, is God gonna fry us just because we have a little pleasure and fun in our worship? If YOUR God is that much of a mean-spirited deity that He would get worked up over something as trivial as instruments, then I don’t want any part of Him! MY God has much more important things to deal with, and so should you. Why aren’t you out feeding the sick and helping the needy instead of squawking about instruments?

Bill: “Rich, instead of attacking me, or fixating on music in Old Testament Temple worship (BTW, Jesus took the Old Law to the cross), or fixating on what the NT doesn’t say about instruments, why don’t you concentrate on what the NT does say about singing and making melody in the heart to the Lord? It’s simply found in Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16. Don’t you believe that we should follow what is definitively written in the NT, not speculate about what is absent from the NT? Please don’t let packing your church pews with happy and satisfied customer-congregants get in the way of following the NT. No matter how it appears to us, anything written in the New Testament is hardly moot, for it comes from the mind of God Himself; that is, if you still believe that the Word is God-inspired. Furthermore, Christians absolutely have no authority to implement what the NT does not authorize, especially when the NT is very specific about the use of only vocal music in worship. And for the record, don’t think about handing me that stuff about the NT not authorizing hymnals, podiums, bathrooms in church, air conditioners, etc. You know as well as I do that they don’t alter the basic doctrine and message of the NT. In light of what the NT says about vocal music in worship, implementing instruments goes contrary to what is written

Richard erupted with effusive laughter: “Nilly Willie Silly Billy. Trying so HARD to preach to the preacher! Don’t STRAIN at that gnat too hard, or you’ll get a hernia! Man, you haven’t changed at all in twenty years. Same old flaming church of Christ legalist! You really don’t know PEOPLE, do you, bud? You gotta give the people what they want, or they won’t come back! And I really think that Jesus didn’t quite have a handle on people either. You know that business He said about narrow is the way to salvation? He couldn’t have missed the target any more! Why, just look at MY church! The way is very WIDE, because of the thousands that attend every week! The “narrow” Jesus refers to is the narrow-mindedness of legalists like you church of Christ, who drive people away with your all-too-serious approach to religion! Naw, Bill, YOU just don’t know people!

Bill: “Rich, I’m sorry to say that YOU just don’t know the Word of God.”

And with that, the two men parted, Richard to entertaining his congregants, and Bill to “Thus saith the Lord.” But later, Richard got to thinking about what Bill had said: “Surely old stuffy Willie can’t be right! I can’t let his self-righteous ways get to me! Instruments HAVE to be a moot point. It just doesn’t seem logical that the NT would nit-pick over a trivial NOTHING like instruments. Why should God care whether we use instruments or not? Doesn’t God have better things to do than worry about instruments? If instruments were so evil, why didn’t Jesus condemn them from the start? Even if He worshiped with them in the Temple under the Mosaic Law, if things were to change after He died, why didn’t He tell His apostles beforehand so they could specifically forbid instruments in the Gospels and settle the matter from the beginning? What if this…what if that…what if…what if…what if?”

Richard was so sorely vexed over what Bill had said that he laid awake for hours at night pondering over and trying to find other ways to get around Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16. Why did the NT have to write about singing? Why couldn’t the NT have been absolutely specific one way or another about instruments as well? Why this…why that…why…why…why? If Richard removed instruments from his church, he’d have to find another job, because his congregation would fall away in a flash. Richard really didn’t know if his congregation appreciated the Word of God, but one thing was certain: they expected and demanded the instrumental entertainment each week. And so Richard went on and on agonizing and justifying the use of instruments according to human logic while dismissing from his mind what the NT had specifically written about singing.

It is not for us to know why God wrote the NT in the manner that He did through the Gospel writers and the apostolic epistles. It is only important for us to trust that what He wrote is for our own good to direct us along the narrow path of salvation. For all we know, God may have purposefully mentioned singing but not instruments to see who would be faithful to take Him exactly at His Word vs. those who would arrogantly augment His Word through instruments. Therefore, in the matter of singing vs. instruments in worship, why ignore what God has written in the NT about singing to Him? We need only to follow what God definitively has written about singing and making melody in the heart to Him. Fixating on and making endless speculations on what God has not written about instruments implies selfishness and a lack of trust to take God’s New Testament at face value.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.19.64.131

Parable of the Bible Degree

February 26 2006, 2:21 PM 

Fritz Freedom was raised in the church of Christ. From the time that he was a child, Fritz had learned to embrace the New Testament and to trust it as the infallible Word of God. In doing so, he was wise beyond his years.

But when Fritz grew up, he obtained a Bible degree from an institution of higher learning. He was exposed to the world’s “best” biblical scholars and clerics, who succeeded in twisting and scrambling Fritz’s previously fundamental theology into their own version of “free-thinking,” cynical agnosticism. For example:

  • What had once been “the Word of God,” the New Testament, to the boy Fritz was now the “Book of Shackles and Bondage” to the man Fritz with the Bible degree.

  • What had once been “This is what the Bible says” to the boy was now just baseless church of Christ “traditions” to the man with the Bible degree.

  • What had once been the unchanging Word of God to the boy was now to the man with the Bible degree a bunch of detestable, chauvinistic, and out-dated ramblings that desperately needed to be rewritten to match the mindset and trends of modern society.

  • What timeless biblical principles the child had embraced the man with the Bible degree now spurned as childish.

  • What had once been baptism for remission of sins to the boy was now “ridiculous dunking” to the man with the Bible degree.

  • What had been “Add nothing to the New Testament; take nothing from the NT” to the boy was now “What the NT doesn’t condemn by name is fair game” to the man with the Bible degree.


Fritz had received an infinitely more “scholarly” religious education than what he would have received from “living room Bible studies.” Thus, Fritz’s Bible degree had “emancipated” him. He was “free in Christ” to do as he pleased.

And the teacher explained that the boy Fritz is any person who humbles his heart and becomes childlike, trusting and obeying the New Testament as written. After all, Christ admonished that those who do not receive the Kingdom of God as a little child, that is, with full trust in and obedience to the Word with Christ as their spiritual Authority, will not enter that Kingdom (Mark 10:15 KJV). The grown man Fritz is the person who is mature in chronological years but is immature in the Scriptures by trusting instead the complex scholarship and diverse, ecumenical opinions of rebellious men. Such prefer their own personal “freedoms” over obedience to all things whatsoever Christ has commanded us (Matt. 28:20 KJV) in the NT Gospels and through the apostolic epistles. Thus, Fritz as a mere boy was spiritually wise; Fritz as a “scholar” was spiritually ignorant. His Bible degree had by no means given him any degree of spiritual superiority. On the contrary, it had become a spiritual hindrance. The boy had learned far more about following the NT through simple “living room Bible studies,” for example, than through any delusions of “freedom” which a bunch of spiritually destructive clerics could ever promise in a Bible degree.

And so it is with those who prefer the complex scholarship of the world over the simple Truth of the New Testament.

 
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Concerned Christian
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70.177.30.24

Re: Parable of the Bible Degree

February 26 2006, 10:27 PM 

By the way Bill, I am not Fritz Freedom I am Concerned Christian.

I believe that one must become a Christian in order to be saved. Do you agree oh parable writer?

Baptism is more than just getting "Dunked" it is a transformation of your Spirit. Do you agree?

My church attendance does not seal my salvation. Do you agree?

The sign in which we hide behind is not my salvation, but hiding behind the cross is. Do you agree?

Your right; getting an education opened my eyes to things I had not previously heard or studied, because unlearned people where teaching them.

I have numerous friends that have continued their education into PHDuh programs and they are amazed at the information that is out there.

If the Bible is perfect and inerrant then where is the Original I Corinthians? Why did God not just give us a Bible instead of having men sit around a table and vote for what is going to be in and what will be out?

Please answer these questions.

Pretty Cool I had a Parable written about me. Bill Are you going to Canonize this in I Opinions?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.217.165.84

RE: Parable of the Bible Degree

February 27 2006, 9:44 AM 

CC is pretty arrogant to ASSUME that the parable was written about HIM! Such abominable arrogance! But if he wants to identify with "Fritz Freedom," that's his prerogative. BTW, CC's name is not really "Concerned Christian"; it's just a cowardly alias. Now I refer him to the post above entitled "An Interlude," dated April 21, 2005.

 
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Concerned Christian
(no login)
70.177.30.24

Re: RE: Parable of the Bible Degree

February 28 2006, 1:39 AM 

Do not call me out as a coward unless you do the same will "PPB".

Just because she AMEN'S everthing you say does not give you the right to be ugly.


By the way my name has nothing to do with having a conversation with you. Lighten up and please post my resonse I made earlier about you quoting me in your Parable. I am not arrogant I can read and clearly see my quotes in it.

Are you going to ignore my questions? You made no attempt to answer them.

I believe that one must become a Christian in order to be saved. Do you agree oh parable writer?

Baptism is more than just getting "Dunked" it is a transformation of your Spirit. Do you agree?

My church attendance does not seal my salvation. Do you agree?

The sign in which we hide behind is not my salvation, but hiding behind the cross is. Do you agree?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.217.125.144

RE: Parable of the Bible Degree (by CC)

February 28 2006, 9:53 AM 

Friend, don't hide behind PPB's "skirts" to justify your incapacitating fear to reveal your real name. We're not dealing with PPB here; we are calling you to be a man (or woman), to stand up and reveal your real name! Otherwise, you slither on your belly as a serpentine coward, a member of the heretical Change Movement. Your questions perpetuate the Fruity Loop, for they have ALL been answered before on this site in one thread or another. Shall I once more bounce you around this site (as I did before ) and refer you to a recent post that deals with detractors posting their ridiculous cycles of questions, for which they could care less about the answers, except to taunt and jeer?


 
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Jack Mann
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72.49.62.71

Parable of the Bible Decree

March 1 2006, 10:02 PM 

C.C. I have asked Mr. Crump and Mr. Sublett to explain "Justification" for as long as I have been posting. They have been unable to incorporate Justification with worship, therefore, both have remained "silent."
Jack Mann

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
68.19.253.183

Re: Parable of the Bible Decree

March 2 2006, 8:38 AM 

Jack,

Not sure if you’re speaking of the “Bible Decree” or “Bible Degree.”

It’s good to discuss certain topics as “justification,” etc. However, in most instances, this forum deals more with issues initiated by proponents of the Rick Warren’s or Max Lucado’s church growth schemes [or scams] that lead to the acquisition of churches into the Community Church fold.

Is “justification” an issue among churches of Christ? Or, are you making this an issue?

Would you clarify “incorporat[ing] Justification with worship”? Is this another issue you’re trying to concoct?

Donnie


 
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Ken Sublett
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4.152.96.199

Justification

March 2 2006, 12:53 PM 

Jack, I responded to you about righteousness and justification. Here is another take.

A person who is JUST is justified. A person who does RIGHT is righteous. All of this has to do with the human realm in which we live.

People were considered righteous when they honored God and WORKED righteousness. A person who follows these principles without the Law of Moses would be defined as righteous in a pagan society.

Scripture never says that ABRAHAM WAS SAVED BY FAITH because Abraham was NOT LOST. Abraham was JUSTIFIED by faith
    Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
A person is JUSTIFIED if they can LEGALLY PLEAD. The Supreme Court refused to hear an individual because they had no STANDING with the court.

A person receives the rigteousness of God by PUTTING ON Jesus Christ in baptism because only the CHRIST OF GOD has the right to pead.
    1Jn.3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Of Cornelius:
    Acts 10:2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

    Ac.10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

That simply means that the person is NOT IMPURE as the Jews believed.

Dikaios adj1 adj2 [dikê]

A. in Hom. and early writers,
    I. of persons, observant of custom and social rule, well-ordered, civilised, Od.; so, dikaiê zoê a regular way of living, Hdt.:--adv., dikaiôs mnasthai to woo in due form, decently, Od.

    2. observant of right, righteous, Hom., etc.:--so of actions, in accordance with right, righteous, id=Hom.
B. later usage:
    I. of things, even, well-balanced, harma dikaion Xen.:-- regular, exact, rigid,

    2. right, lawful, just, to dikaion right, opp. to to adikon, Hdt., etc.; also, a right, a lawful claim, Thuc., etc.:--adv. -ôs, rightly, justly, Hdt., etc.
II. of persons, as well as things, like Lat. justus, meet, right, fitting, Aesch.; hippon d. poieisthai tini to make a horse fit for another's use, Xen.
    2. real, genuine, true, Dem., sungrapheus Luc.:--adv. -ôs, really and truly, Soph.

    3. fair, moderate, like metrios, Thuc.: --dikaiôs with reason, Soph., Thuc.
Even the best are NOT righteous enough to save themselves and that is why right living people have the RIGHT to become the children of God if they BELIEVE.

John refused to baptize some Pharisees and Sadducees because he KNEW that they were neither RIGHT nor JUST. That is why it is never right to baptize a person known to be UNright or UNjust in the belief that baptism is going to work a miracle on their character.

That is why the battle of FAITH ONLY has been confused about the word JUSTIFICATION when Zwingli equated it to SALVATION or REGENERATION. There are two separate words and two separate concepts. We are justified by FAITH which is a THROUGH word leading to the IN (Eis) word only after baptism. If people oppose abortion then they have to believe that "life" at some level resides in the SEED and "germinates" when it is planted. However, it is NOT a corn plant until it goes through the BIRTHING process. We have to treat with tender care those who have begun the process when the SEED of the Word germinates. However, we are baptized to become DISCIPLES or ENROLLED students in the ekklesia or school of the Bible which IS NOT a "worship center" doing acrobatics but FEEDING milk and then MEAT.

I don't know of a church dedicated to being a NURSERY rather than being a ballet school. That may be why Jesus invited the TWOS AND THREES to REST "beside still waters" and LEARN OF ME. When you make those NOISES of a mighty rushing water you are FEEDING GOATS and not LAMBS who will be SOMEWHERE ELSE: maybe RAPTURED into their homes until the WINDS quit blowing.

 
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Saddened
(no login)
209.215.107.240

Re: RE: Parable of the Bible Degree (by CC)

December 1 2006, 4:48 AM 

I consider myself a faithful Christian. I try to follow the teachings of the Bible. But it saddens and sometimes confuses me when I see such hatred and slander between children of God. Brothers and Sisters, does it please the Lord to verbally degrade another member of the Body? Regardless of what you may be saying, you should say it with love. Doesn't the Bible teach that we should only speak that which is upbuilding to others? This is not to say that we should not help others to see the truth of the Lord's teachings: Priscilla and Aquila corrected Apollos. But do you think that they slandered him while explaining to him the truth? No, they invited him to their house to explain it more clearly. Thank you for letting me rant.

In Christian Love,
JS

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.19.66.217

Sad Indeed

December 1 2006, 1:25 PM 

Yes, indeed, when we earnestly try to inform the world and especially churches of Christ about the heresies and fallacies of the Change Movement, it is quite SAD when denominational detractors and liberals within the c of C can only offer vicious retorts, insults, hateful attitudes, and character assassinations. Such responses are truly not marks of Christianity. As we have pointed out time after time on this site, these people do so because they object strictly from their bias, hate, prejudice, and denominational, man-contrived doctrines, not from any scriptural basis.

What does it accomplish to slander and ridicule the job or profession of anyone who strives to follow the TRUTH of the New Testament, as we have seen many times on this site from detractors? It only proves that they have NOTHING scriptural on which to stand, so they allow their hate to consume them while they revile those with whom they disagree. But in so doing, they put their own souls in jeopardy by violating 1 Cor. 6:9-10 (KJV). This is a list of the "unrighteous" whom the New Testament promises will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Revilers are definitely on that list. Yet the detractors/revilers spurn that passage and go right ahead with their vicious retorts, claiming that our stand for TRUTH abuses and slanders them, when in TRUTH, their hateful retorts slander us.

There will never be any "peace on earth" as long as people embrace the man-contrived doctrines of the "faith" of denominationalism and refuse to follow the New Testament exactly as written.

 
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PPB
(no login)
70.116.84.97

Re: Parable of the Bible Degree

March 2 2006, 7:42 PM 

Ahhhhh....CC, you sure know how to limit God's power.

Has it ever occurred to you that since HE inspired the written Word, he may have made sure it translated correctly through the ages? Has that thought ever crossed your mind or do you believe God doesn't care and lets us flounder around with a book that is in error? Your comment would lead one to think He enjoys watching us try to piece his Word together in some format that is correct. All the time knowing that our souls are on the line.

One minute your going on and on about how merciful and loving God is and the next minute you make him seem like a weak and heartless God that doesn't care if we use His correct Word or not. Even though he states we are to obey all of his Word? ....That seems awfully cruel.

Is God all powerful and all knowing?

And by the way, what's this about NOT having to go to assembly as part of our salvation? Ummm...are you saying that if we give our soul's utterly and fully to Christ, that we do not have to obey his command to meet? That if we fail to do so, we are not breaking one of his Father's commands? I'm confused?


 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.32.215.168

“Parable of the Damaged Kingdom”

June 26 2006, 1:13 AM 

Parable of the Damaged Kingdom



Once there was a king of a fair and prosperous kingdom. When he was away on a long journey his kingdom was undermined by rebels who wished to capture his domain and impose their will upon his citizens.

In his employ were a multitude of men whose responsibility it was to protect his citizens and guard his kingdom. As the rebels did their destructive work, the king’s defenders behaved in the strangest way. Some were busy playing games, hunting and fishing. Others spent endless hours with their eyes closed in repose. Some busied themselves by endlessly going to school, “ever learning” but too busy to tend their Master’s affairs. Some had projects of their own that left them little or no time for the king’s business. Some kept assuring themselves and others that all was well, that those who appeared to be enemies were really friends of their Lord. When a few valiant men sought to block the advance of the invading rebels, others actually threw stones at them and heaped curses and insults upon them as trouble-makers.

One day the king unexpectedly returned home and found his kingdom in shambles. His people were scattered and many cities were occupied by rebels. Calling his guardians together, he inquired why they had allowed this disaster to occur. One by one they came before him. Ashamed and afraid for their neglect, they offered their excuses: “I was fishing.” “I was busy pursuing my degree.” “I don’t like controversy.” “I did not think they were all that bad.” “I preferred to do positive things.” “I tried to understand their point of view.”

The king said to them, “You careless and irresponsible guardians. I trusted you to watch my kingdom. You ate at my table. You failed me and those I entrusted to your care. Now depart from me you worthless servants. He ordered them cast out with the rebels whose cause they aided by their neglect. He that hath ears, let him hear and learn.


_____________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: johnwaddey@aol.com

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.19.68.155

Parable of the Lesson on Forgiveness

November 7 2006, 3:10 PM 

Here's a modified version of a post I made recently to FaithSite but which the biased and prejudicial moderators there axed fairly quickly. Apparently they dislike any "outsider" preaching to the liberals over there about forgiveness or any other scriptural topic. Well someone needs to, because there's surely a whole lotta hate and animosity wrapped up in that bunch.

A preacher stood before his congregation one Sunday morning and delivered his sermon: "A Lesson on Forgiveness." After the service, one of the members named Angry stormed up to the preacher, drew him aside, and blasted him with, "You despicable mongrel! How dare you direct your sermon directly at me! You've embarrassed me before the entire congregation, you worthless moron! You're so incompetent, you couldn't even run for dog catcher!"

The preacher was perplexed at this sudden, acrimonious outburst and gently inquired as to the reason for such behavior unbecoming a Christian.

"Don't you play dumb and innocent with me, you foul man! You very well know that I've had a bone to pick with John Doe over there. He has no integrity, he done me wrong, and I want--nay, DEMAND--an apology from him, and it's none of the church's business. But thanks to YOU, now the whole church knows!"

The preacher reminded Angry that no specific names were ever mentioned in the sermon, neither had any specific incident or dispute been brought up. The sermon had simply been a generic discussion of forgiveness. And speaking of forgiveness, had Angry forgiven John Doe of his alleged wrongs?

"Of course I've forgiven him, you twit of a shaman! We're supposed to forgive '70 times 7,' or had you forgotten about that? But John Doe has no integrity, he done me wrong, and I DEMAND an abject apology while he kneels at my feet before the congregation! I want satisfaction, and I'm gonna humiliate him into the ground one way or another!"

The preacher studied Angry for a bit, then commented, "You say that you have 'forgiven' John Doe, yet it sounds like you still want your proverbial 'pound of flesh' and a whole quart of blood to boot. That doesn't sound much like forgiveness to me. In reality, I don't believe you have learned to forgive at all, if you still want the kind of 'satisfaction' you're demanding. Jesus instructed us to forgive those who tresspass against us as many times as they do so. It matters not how serious the wrong, and we're not to keep track of the number of wrongs. We are to forgive. In Matt. 6:14-15, Jesus also warned that He will forgive us only if we forgive others. Furthermore, you have a penchant for reviling and speaking evil of John Doe. In 1 Cor. 6:9-10, we are given a list of those who are 'unrighteous' and hence will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Revilers are on that list. So why not heed the commands of Christ and the New Testament? Forgive John Doe and never revile him again."

Fit to be tied, Angry couldn't believe that the preacher had said what he did. Angry lusted for and exulted in revenge and satisfaction, yet here was this goody-two-shoes preacher talking about "forgiveness" nonsense and citing inane Bible verses, the last two things Angry ever wanted to hear at this time. Worse, this idiotic preacher had delivered a rebuke and had implied that Angry's attitude was sinful! Angry then spun about and stormed off, muttering vile imprecations against the preacher and John Doe.

And the Teacher warned that those who will not forgive and who revile others indeed put their souls in double jeopardy: Jesus will not forgive the unforgiving, and revilers will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Yet Angry chose this very path, the path that leads to eternal destruction.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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