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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

Equally Called To Ser

April 17 2005, 11:16 PM 

Rubel walks after Rubel and Rubel is flesh!

Hi John,

The scriptures say, “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12

So I will overlook the little digs you made about me and then trying to “shoo” me away for this board like you would an old dog. I will contribute your words to the spirit that is in you and to the spirit that you serve.

I was giving a response to the statement you made in an earlier post.

You wrote: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." This would have been all you would have had to say about the eunuch with out a dissertation of your life. You and I are to sow the seed. I am sure you are familiar with Matthew 13. The eunuch was just as lost as were the "certain disciples" of John that Luke records in Acts 19. After hearing, these men were baptized "into Jesus." No more "condemnation" from God, only from the Rubel Shelly bashers.

I wrote: You did not read it all John. That verse teaches that there are "both" lost and saved even IN CHRIST!

You heard me right John! Read the verse again. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". Ro. 8:1

You wrote back: “I am standing on the "promise" of God my Savior. Thank God, "there is now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus (attitude, or unity), has made me free from the law of sin and death."

Jimmy comments: If that was what you had written to begin with I would have been in agreement with you, but you have left out a part of your statement.

Let me remind you what that statement was: “No more "condemnation" from God, only from the Rubel Shelly bashers.”

No one on these boards are condemning anyone who is in Christ and walking after the Spirit. We are however pointing out that Rubel is in Christ but he is not walking after the Spirit. Rubel walks after Rubel and Rubel is flesh!

In Christian Love,


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Ken Sublett
(no login)

Re: Robbers, I take Paul's privilege of boasting a bit.

April 16 2005, 11:55 AM 

    Ken, you have convinced me: you are a wonderful man. Please, do not break your arm at the elbo patting yourself on the back. No doubt, you are a "five talent servant."

    Please, do not be too hard on those of us with "two." Oh, I am sure that you believe that most of us are of the "one."

    Keep in mind that Paul said, "every man shall receive his own reward according to his labor." No doubt, you will be standing next to James and John, on the Lord's right hand, in the kingdom.

I talked about ME because you accuse me of being a SHIRKER as a PLOY to divert from the truth I am telling you. I responded to YOUR self-reference. Remember? Oh, these attention spans. When I talk about ME just see me as a Pontificating Preacher Preening His Pinions.

One of the talents and joys Christ gave me with my commission to go OUT false teachers, is Gender Discernment: You respond like a woman! Did I get it right? What, but maybe being on the DOLE riding tandem on poor widows, would produce such a hate-filled attidud when I just quote Scriptures WITHOUT being a certified Jerk. I have discovered among the Jubilators that the relationships are "thicker than the blood of Jesus." I have noted others who responded as if I had insulted their wife when I simply compare what a Shellyite says which is opposed to the Bible and all of church history. Mature males can give and take without hand flinging! Give it a try.
    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus." This would have been all you would have had to say about the eunuch with out a dissertation of your life.
But, then I would just be LYING, wouldn't I? WOULDN'T I? There are others out there you know and your comments and attitudes go all over the world in LARGE numbers. So, it is easier to hide behind Annie-Mouses THAN to speak up like a man. That is why when someone pokes FALSE DOGMA we just naturally try to fill in the blanks for those "hungering and thirsting for the Word and CANNOT find it" at the normal DISPENSING stations anymore. We give them the GENUINE article for FREE. That is what's got you going mad. My assumption is that not all baptized kids are IN CHRIST. Even when they get their Phd is Christianism thy are most likely to REPUDIATE the Word. Therefore, they are no longer IN Christ. I say there is no redemption for anyone who belitles the Word but there ARE others out there. Know that/

It's so immature to take a passage out of context especially when it is probably removed many years after the Eunuch was baptized INTO Christ. After THAT there is no condemnation.
    Johnny Reb: HERE is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1
J.R. when you quote that out of context you lie: did you know that? Huh? Huh. The same Paul maybe at the same sitting at a writing table said:
    WHAT shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Rom 6:1

    God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Rom 6: 2

    Know ye not, that so many of us as were BAPTIZED INTO Jesus Christ were baptized INTO his death? Rom 6: 3

    Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Rom 6: 4

    For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Rom 6: 5

You cannot be IN CHRIST with all of those sins. The Bible gives NO OTHER way or remitting sins but Baptism. Know That? Is this getting too heavy for you? Now, this same Paul told us how we are saved BY FAITH?
    FOR ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:26

    FOR as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have PUT ON Christ. Gal 3:27

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

I truly believe that you WANT to be ecumenical. Do you know what that means? It means we will STEAL your sheep and TAKE any one's HEALTH CARE MONEY or child's bread money and LOVE you to death. Why! Even hold your funeral.

And there is no African or Jew IN Christ. But there is NO ONE in Christ who has not been BAPTIZED INTO Christ.
    You and I are to sow the seed. I am sure you are familiar with Matthew 13. The eunuch was just as lost as were the "certain disciples" of John that Luke records in Acts 19. After hearing, these men were baptized "into Jesus." No more "condemnation" from God, only from the Rubel Shelly bashers.
The TARES were sown by Satan: they were preachers who PREACH ON THEIR OWN. I won't pluck Rubel Shelly up but when he says FOR A PROFIT that "I AM PURE WHEAT" I am given the right to question that. I KNOW that I am not supposed to question God's ANNOINTEDS riding on my back: but I am old and slow and I WON'T GO. His wheat is so pure that "I have NEW words not available in the olden days of Jesus. I have NEW glasses and I have a new VISION for the church" which is a ditto head of the feminist and lesbian Methodists. I give MYSELF the right to warn people DON'T EAT THAT TARE. I doubt that you will take it away.

That is why the same chapter Jesus spoke parables primarily to the RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONALISTS who were plugged with Cainites or Kenites or Dionysus worshipers where EVERY priesthood has always been perverted. Jesus HID the truth from them. Isaiah 48 informs us that it is because TRAFFICKERS will peddle the word: they will even take the FREE water of the Word and pollute it and TRAFFICK in it for a prophet. Since I am not on the DOLE this does not fit me.
    No more "condemnation" from God, only from the Rubel Shelly bashers.
I don't PASS SENTENCE on Rubel Shell but I do judge that he confesses that he 'TAKES LIBERTIES' with the Word because it has no relevance for OUR CHANGED CULTURE. Jesus condemns ALL believers who have been BAPTIZED and then turn back to vomit:
    For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, Heb 6:4

    And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, Heb 6: 5

    If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Heb 6: 6

    For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: Heb 6: 7

    But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. Heb 6: 8

Undoubtedly Isaiah 5 informs the writer here: remember the Amos and Isaiah parallel where God by His grace gave the VINEYARD. However, the keepers turned to wine, women and music and God "let the walls fall" and the BEAST people came in and consumed their inheritance. PERSEVERENCE OF THE SAINTS is Calvinistic: PERFECTION in all who have been baptized is insanity.

I can think of no greater shame than claiming to be getting visions with new glasses and then STAND IN THE HOLY PLACE trafficking in it. Or how about a Musical Worship Team standing in the Holy Place. A Levitical singer would be executed before he plucked the first string inside the TYPE of the church of Christ. Shelly says that they can help LEAD you into God's presence. Wouldn't that make them the MESSIAH standing in the Holy Place claiming to BE God?

Jesus personally WILTED a tree which would not produce fruit: think what he or Paul would do to the false teachers who know NOTHING about the Bible. Jesus pronounced lots of WOES upon religionists. Since I can't judge TREES I will just have to be a Fruit inspector. And I have the right to not eat a peach which has rotted even though it was once a PURE peach.

There is no human on the face of the earth who has passed more judgment against ANTI-instrumentalists than Rubel Shelly and his band of merry men. That's a fact: I have collected a long list. He says that we are seen as FRATRICIDES which for the cheap pews means 'brother killers.' And muggers of ladies with fur coats or fire bombers of restaurants. THAT'S a fact. That's a LIE and he has spent millions of the LORD'S money training people how to make the changes. He says that our doctrines are "decadent and deleterious." If you DON'T have a Phd that means that we are ROTTEN and DESTRUCTIVE. You will NEVER find a conservative minister leading a band to INFILTRATE and DIVERT a peacable church into a "theater for holy entertainment" or steal the people's money to build a "Venue for Rock and Roll." Never!

You are just spewing PSYCHOLOGICAL VIOLENCE which marks so many of Rubel's sermons and I have reviewed many of them. Forget it, buster. The LAID refuse to let the Clergy rule over it anymore.

Why is it that you seem to grasp the SPIRIT idea and defend Shelly/Lucado who John Mark Hicks claims revived the TRINITY. However, that is not quite right: no one prior to H. Leo Boles and then INVENTED tritheism of three members of the Family of Gods. Is polytheism enough to condemn you? Do YOU believe that the Father God and the Spirit God ACED OUT the little dumb Son god to trick him into volunteering to come and die for humanity. Say goodbye, buster: Just eat, drink and make mary.

Ken: free at last, free at last. Rubel is Wrong: there is NO LAW OF TITHING. Better spend your money on that little widow in Nigeria who wants to SHARE 25 million with you. At least she will not lead you away from the "word as it has been taught."


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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

Bible lessons

April 14 2005, 8:15 PM 


Here it is!

In Christian Love,


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Ken Sublett
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you people

April 11 2005, 8:24 PM 

It's ok to be ridiculous if you don't TRAFFICK in God's free word, divert churches to your own "evolving theology" and sow more deliberate discord than any one in our church history.

Unfortunately, not much of it is based on the reading of the same Bible used by Concerned Members. When you TAKE LIBERTIES, hear voices and PARTNER with God to get a new set of scriptures of OUR changed culture you claim to be the new super COOK and you had better be able to stand the HEAT now and for ever more.

Most of Shelly's early posted sermons did the Hegeling Dialectic to throw you into the PostModern schizophrenia to make you unhappy with your OLD church structure which Shelly helped to mold. This then CRIPPLES you so that to defend things like NOT ever seeing MUSIC as an operative word in the worship of a Spirit God you know that the CLOUD GONNA POUR ON YOU.

When Shelly discusses topical things like prophetesses, deaconesses, instrumental music as ok but even HE apparently could not bluff the weak elders, the wilderness as a PATTERN for church organization and worship and on and on and one he bats EXACTLY 0%. It is 100% out of his head or the latest fad on the internet. Even Jubilee was a ditto head of the Pope's call for Jubilees culminating in Jubilee 2000 when the Catholics expressed confidence that churches of Christ would join the MOTHER.

However, to be fair, he gives himself the right to TAKE LIBERTIES with the old, fragmented, uninspired scriptures. Therefore, he is not forced to reach the same conclusions as we who believe that the Bible is the ONLY rationale for the church of Christ.

I would expect that the next one will be trained as a "Prophet, Chaneller and Facilitator" to move the church further away from the Truth. Whole churches have been built on the REVERSE EVANGELISM of Rubel Shelly and his ENABLERS. Are THEY all wrong? Unfortunately you have chased away those who repudiate performances and have collected a new body of SEEKERS who will never tolerate solid Bible preaching from the elders who are commanded to "teach that which has been taught."

The solution might be to look again at the OLDEN Bible and discover that there are NO offices for people like Shelly or all of the PROFESSIONAL PALS SERVING in the place of vocational deacons. If your elders are not competent to be the Christ Ordained Pastor-Teachers then they are NOT apt to be elders. Look at all of the money you could save if you quit fleecing widows and honest workers to support that class the Greek language identified as performing as SORCERERS and therefore PARASITES. Wouldn't it be nice to NOT hear someone promoting PROGRAMS stolen from the Methodist Social Gospel?


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David M. Tyler
(no login)

There is a diff.....

March 21 2007, 1:47 AM 

What alot of liberals don't understand is what they are preaching will lead to the disolution of the Churches of Christ and the Churches of Christ will become a haunt of the wicked and the hypocrital, like the other lib churches in this country! I know a deluded lib myself who thinks that God is telling her to preach from the pulpit! Satan is up to it's old tricks and we who know the Truth need to teach it and preach it and rebuke those who are wrong. Libs should be rebuked in a Biblical manner, and if they don't listen, then we should follow the Biblical excommunication process. We wouldn't be having a problem with the libs in the Churches of Christ if the Deacons and Elders and Shepards were doing the important job of keeping these heretics out of leadership positions and out of the churches. Lib=heretic. Don't tolerate evil because evil will always attack good. Satan hates Christ and it directs it's wicked followers to attack real Christians and their beliefs. There is alot of wisdom in "praying out" a heretic or just having the leadership confront them and tell them to either listen, believe and obey sound doctrine or "hit the road" The Kingdom of Heaven isn't for the disobeient.

If you don't like my opinion and you really hate real doctrine, just keep your bile to yourself: I don't debate heretics, I don't even talk to them on Biblical matters.

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(no login)

Donnie you wrote

April 17 2005, 10:04 AM 

you said:
"I'm not deluded! You may not like it, but the sign is still out there. My bible is definitely revealing a purpose for my life, and it's not trying to figure out what God has said and how He wants things done. It's child's play for Him with all you have by caring for the destitute...physically, financially, emotionally and spiritually. My book tells me to be active in that pursuit.(ro 2:13, ja 1:22)"

The bible says to love the Lord. Caring for the destitute is not all that is required. For He said If you love Me you will keep my commandments(plural).


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Donnie Cruz
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Chuck wrote that….

April 17 2005, 8:35 PM 


On April 9 2005, 2:41 PM, I commented to Chuck Sonn in “Thanks to ‘The Christian Chronicle,’ (not Donnie)”:

    I’m sorry that you continue to be in a state of delusion. Please don’t include “churches of Christ in general” in or associate them with Rubel and his “Purpose-Driven Left” Movement.

Well, I just wanted to clarify that what you quoted me as saying was actually Chuck’s “defense” that he is not deluded. So, you may need to discuss the issue with him that it’s more than just “caring for the destitute”—Chuck’s only favorite topic … it seems. God’s truth is full of commands—I agree with you completely.


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Donnie Cruz
(no login)

“Statement from Rubel Shelly about his changing role” [Quoted]

April 23 2005, 9:32 PM 

Note to the Reader: The following article is being presented—not to endorse or promote, but rather to educate and inform the viewer of, Shelly’s ever-changing views concerning New Testament doctrine. Either pseudo-Baptist Max and Rub and their cohorts [who are not accepted in Baptist circles] (1) have the responsibility of making a public statement that they have completely denounced their affiliation with churches of Christ and have joined the Baptist faith or other faiths of their choices so as not to confuse the brotherhood any longer or (2) have the responsibility of repenting to the founder and owner of the New Testament church of their error and deceptive schemes and returning to the fold.


Source: The Christian Chronicle


    Statement from Rubel Shelly about his changing role

    February 03, 2005

    Excerpt from a joint sermon delivered with John York Jan. 30 at Woodmont Hills

    The following statements are posted on Woodmont Hills' Web site

    Following a back-and-forth discussion of WHCC's accomplishments and struggles:

    Rubel Shelly: Yes, there are a couple of stirrings that Myra and I still cherish in our hearts at a personal level. One is to be very directly involved in the training of young men and women for ministry in local churches. I was not prepared for the thing I wound up doing for all my adult life, and she and I believe we've learned some things - at the expense of this church, I might add, in our “on-the-job training” here - that we would like to try to pass on to others. Christian colleges and seminaries are doing a good job in most cases with teaching text, languages, church history, homiletics, and the like. In my opinion, though, there is a great need for some people who have invested our lives in local churches to be involved in training would-be ministers in the real-life, practical, and hands-on side of what to expect. And the second is to participate in planting a new church somewhere - starting from scratch and working off a blank sheet of paper.

    Several of you know that Myra and I have looked at some possibilities and options tied to these two things over the past few years. And today is the day for us to let you know that we informed the shepherds a few weeks ago of our intention to transition into one of those options later this year.

    John York: Since I know what you're about to tell these folks, let me ask everybody here this morning to take a deep breath and hear the word “transition” in that last sentence of yours. You're not about to retire. You're not quitting ministry. And you're not leaving Woodmont Hills. Just writing a new chapter. Transitioning. Changing your role with us.

    Shelly: Correct. And here is a broad outline of what is coming. This summer I will move to a part-time status on the ministry staff at Woodmont Hills. I won't be preaching on Sundays anymore after July 2005. The time has come for me to lay down that role in order to focus on something different. In terms of this church, I will continue to write and teach from here - concentrating on regular Wednesday night teaching. I will write “The FAX of Life” and continue to play whatever role the shepherds wish me to fill in helping connect us to the larger community through service projects - Faith Family Medical Clinic, Operation Andrew Ministries, and the like. I especially want to help with the Grace Home Andhra project that was announced here last week.

    But I will no longer be the “Preaching Minister” or “Senior Minister” at Woodmont Hills.

    We are transitioning my role here - not quitting, not leaving, not moving from Nashville - in order for me to accept a faculty position at Rochester College. I will join the religion faculty at that 1000-student college just north of Detroit to help prepare some people to do what I have done for the past quarter century. Dr. Mike Westerfield, President of Rochester College, and his colleagues at the school have been very gracious to offer me that opportunity. More specifically still, pending approval by the Higher Learning Commission of the State of Michigan, they plan to initiate a graduate program in urban ministry that could use somebody with the sort of experience I have been privileged to get here. And I am thrilled at the opportunity.

    York: Rubel, you and I have talked many times about the wonderful people at Rochester College. I know that many of our members have come from that area and have great hearts for the mission and ministry of that school, so it is hard not to cheer for Rochester College and the gift of teaching that you bring to the students and the colleagues that you will enjoy in that setting. I have a number of good friends who teach there and I know how excited they are at the prospect of your coming. At the same time, you did say that you are not moving to Michigan, right?!

    Shelly: This is “transition” and - don't get your hopes up out there! - not departure. In fact, it is the sort of transition of roles that could be precedent-setting in Churches of Christ. How do most churches make preacher changes? With blood on the floor and with people angry with one another! How do preachers too often leave works? In a moving truck in the middle of the night. What kind of relationship exists between that preacher and the church he has served? None. Or a very tense relationship. One of the final “new” things I'd like to be part of at Woodmont Hills is a smooth, loving, healthy transition to far better days than this church has experienced to date.

    Nothing would cause me to feel better about the time Myra and I have spent here than for this church to grow, prosper, and thrive as we step back a bit here. I'd like to think we have helped lay a foundation that others will build on for generations to come!

    York: Personal faith and the life of any church should always be driven by passion for the future. All of us who work in ministry, and for that matter all of us who live on this planet know that life is about change and becoming. We can fight change and never win - just hide from the realities of change occasionally. We can also embrace moments like these as part of the process of ever-increasing glory, with all of us seeking to learn and become. As Paul says, “So we do not lose heart!” This is a journey at Woodmont Hills, not a destination, for all of us.

    Shelly: The life of this church is not about John York or Rubel Shelly or Terry Smith or . . . Well, it's not about any of us. It's about Jesus Christ. Constant openness to the Spirit's transforming presence. Being surrendered to the Father's will for us as a group of his children. So it would sadden me terribly if this news about a fresh chapter in my life were to unsettle or obstruct the progress of this church. I plan still to be part of its growth, progress, ministries, and outreach in Nashville and the mid-state area. Myra and I ask for your affirmation and excitement over our new prospects - as well as your prayers for our place in the training of young couples for ministry.

    York: Rubel, you know the heart's desire of this church is be completely supportive of you and Myra in life and in ministry. Times like these arouse almost instant anxiety and I admit that for myself and for our shepherds and for all of us as we begin to wonder what comes next. But I also know that faith is always about the unseen and being people of the Kingdom of God means living with an openness to God's future, never knowing exactly what that future looks like. The Kingdom of God is always to come - always pulling us into the unknowns of the future, always calling us to let go of what is for what will be. So we will make this new part of the journey with you and see what God is doing in our midst! You did say you're not leaving, right??

    Shelly: Not leaving. Just writing a new chapter of life. Doing something to which I believe God is calling. Getting to be part of something that excites Myra and me to contemplate.

    When I gave the staff a heads up last Tuesday that this announcement would be made today, Randy Gill began laughing. He said, “Well, I guess we'd better change the song we have on the outline to follow the lesson!” I asked what it was, and he said, “He Has Made Me Glad!”

    It is Christ who gives joy! He has made us a glad, serving, and optimistic church. And we welcome you to join the journey of this safe-place church by committing yourself to be a pilgrim-seeker of Jesus Christ. To pledge to walk with us by faith and not by sight. To share the excitement of celebrating his presence today and tomorrow and into eternity.

    This response to the announcement in this sermon was made by Dan Dozier, on behalf of the shepherds of the Woodmont Hills Church

    On behalf of the shepherds, I'm here to respond to the announcement you've just heard from Rubel and John - and to help you respond to it.

    Most of us who have been here for even a short time know of Rubel's love for the classroom. I've heard him say many times that he's a better teacher than preacher. You may disagree with Rubel's assessment, but it's undeniable that Rubel's passion has always been the classroom.

    Rubel first came to us about six months ago concerning this new chapter in his ministry career. At that time, he and Myra were seriously considering moving to Michigan to teach full-time at Rochester College. Not wanting to do anything that might hurt this church which they love so much, they sought our counsel. They wanted to coordinate anything they did with our larger vision for the future of this family.

    Frankly, when the elders first learned of this possibility we did not want to believe that this could be God's will. While we were in no position to veto that move, we urged them to reconsider and to continue their role with this church as it has been.

    But Rubel continued to hear that call. So, when he told us, a couple weeks ago, of their decision, he said it with such resolve and peace we knew this really was the call of God on his heart.

    At the beginning of this month we announced that we would spend January being still and listening for the voice of God. We had no idea God might say to some of us things that the rest of us did not want to hear. But finally, like Samuel of old, both Rubel and the shepherds had to say, “Speak, Lord, for your servant hears.” It was clear to us that God had spoken and that it was not appropriate for us to try again to steer Rubel away from God's leading.

    We're happy that Rubel and Myra are not moving. We think it makes sense for them to keep Nashville as “home plate” on their playing field. We want him to continue his teaching ministry here while he also expands his work training others for ministry at Rochester College.

    Is there sadness in this announcement? Yes, obviously there is sadness. But as we said the night we discussed this with Rubel two weeks ago: we accept and encourage this decision with “reluctant enthusiasm.”

    Our reluctance has to do with the change that will be involved for this church. Change is inevitable-we all know that. But that doesn't do away with the fact that change makes people feel a bit unsteady. However, God has shown His amazing faithfulness to this church through many changes in the past! And God will faithfully see all of us through this change as well! Our enthusiasm arises from our conviction that both Myra and Rubel are excited about their new opportunities, new challenges, and new roles.

    This is not a time for fear or despair. While we did not choose this direction, we believe this is all a part of God's plan. God has great things in store for Rubel and Myra, and God has great things in store for this church. It's going to be exciting to watch God's plans unfold.

    This is but the next curve in the road on our journey of faith together. God is at work here. Our task is to discover as best we can where God is leading us and then to join HIM in whatever direction He takes us. We believe that Rubel has responded to God's call, and we honor that. Now we are waiting on God to show us what we need to do, where to go, and how to proceed. We do that in faith, in trust, and with a great sense of expectation.

    Let me repeat: Rubel and Myra are not leaving Woodmont Hills - just moving into a different, part-time role here. Rubel will teach regularly in our Wednesday night program. He will still represent us and work with us in a variety of community projects he has helped initiate. And, at some point, after this transition has been completed, Rubel will still be available to do occasional short-term preaching duty with us.

    But he has asked to be relieved of his primary preaching duties. So he will not maintain an office here after this summer. He will not be the 24/7 person we have known him to be for all these years. He uses terms like being “too old” and needing to “pass the baton to a younger guy” and “not getting in the way.” But those are his terms, not ours. He has made a decision none of us has asked him to make.

    Rubel has said that our best days are in front of us. He really believes that. And so do your shepherds! We believe God will raise up another servant to provide for this church's needs just as he did 28 years ago when he brought Rubel and this church together in this wonderful and enduring relationship.

    Churches of all kinds have found it difficult to transition from a dearly loved, long-tenured minister to someone else. We have an opportunity in the next few months to continue seeking the voice and leading of God's Spirit, and doing something few churches have done well. One reason we wanted to announce this decision six months before it takes effect is to wait on God and to seek God's will prayerfully and deliberately.

    We solicit your comments, your advice, and - most of all - your prayers as we move through these changing times. God, Who is faithful, will show the way!

    And we know you join us in wishing for Rubel and Myra the greatest blessings our great God desires to bestow.

    Roy Hamley, who was a member of this church before Rubel arrived here and has been a shepherd for most of his tenure with us, is going to lead us in prayer as we close.


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Donnie Cruz
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Rubel Shelly Then; Max Lucado Now—Two Years Later

March 20 2007, 9:01 AM 

The Christian Chronicle reported in February 2005: “Rubel Shelly to step down from pulpit at Woodmont Hills.”

Now, Max Lucado is “stepping aside as senior minister.”

“Count your many blessings, name them one by one.”

By the way, how is Shelly doing at Rochester College?

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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)

And now apostatizing Max, Rick, Rubel, these three; but the greatest of these is….

December 27 2007, 10:27 PM 

Max’s successor at Oak Hills [formerly “of Christ] has been chosen.

Rick’s experimentation with inanimate and lifeless musical instruments in the assembly is ongoing at Richland Hills C[hristian] C[hurch].

Is Rubel still “training” preachers at Rochester College? What about his successor(s) at Woodmont Hills Family?


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Donnie Cruz
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Rubel Shelly and Rochester College

June 4 2008, 3:25 PM 

The latest from “THE CHRISTIAN CHRONICLE” (June 2008):

    President of Christian college in Michigan resigns

    … Rubel Shelly, best known as minister of the Woodmont Hills church in Nashville, Tenn., from 1978 to 2005, will serve as interim president, giving trustees time to search for a successor, the board announced. …

[Please see this thread for the entire article: “Disturbing Things at Rochester College: A Student's Perspective”]

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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