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missing you

August 28 2005, 5:16 PM 


been missing you the last couple weeks at the assembly. glad to see you are alive and well.

the pm and wm seem to compliment each other. it seems that the wm plans his music around the lessons that we have been learning from the pm...understanding grace through the life of peter. i'd say they work together, or at least it seems to unfold that way.

we did have a rather interesting time of prayer early in the service, with elders and their wives positioning themselves throughout the assembly for a period of prayer.


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Donnie Cruz
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Re: missing you

August 29 2005, 5:39 AM 


Thanks … that I am missed. You didn’t report me as a missing person to proper authorities, did you? I wonder if there are some people who know my stand for the truth and against truth perversion who wish for me to be missing permanently.

What did you mean by “a rather interesting time of prayer … with elders and their wives…”? Did they hold hands together as a symbol of unity with penitent hearts? Did Phil Barnes and Keith Lancaster hug each other in appreciation of each other’s duties and responsibilities?

You know, Dr. Bruce White did appear to appreciate Keith’s efforts often [not sure if he felt obligated or if it was genuine], but his appreciation was unrequited. Keith wanted all the glory and praise all to himself—Hallelujah! Never did he say anything about the messages delivered nor show any cooperative spirit between them. Oh … I see. The musical worship covers 75% of the 90-minute period. The rest of the time is for the observance of the Lord’s Supper, the collection and whatever is left is for the sermon. Remember, the entire assembly period is about “worship” according to Keith, and he is the “WORSHIP Leader.” Sermon delivery is only a small segment of the entire worship period. So, the “Worship Leader” is the boss.

Now, I’m not so sure about how Phil Barnes (the current puppet minister) feels about Keith Lancaster (still the “Worship Leader”), and vice versa. Phil has a very talented son musically who could do just as well leading the musical worship as Keith for much less funding with the saints’ money for the needy saints and the poor. My observation has been that Keith, just the same, is never in the mood of appreciating the efforts of someone who is a part of his overall encompassing musical worship leadership role. Keith shouldn’t feel insecure about losing his position as God’s mediator between Him and the congregation as he leads all into God’s holy presence with his rah-rah-rah, clap-clap-clap worship mentality … should he?

I’ll probably continue this post at some other time. Oh, lest I forget, do you think that Phil Barnes is curious about what’s going on at this website? You know, he is young and is probably knowledgeable of the web world. Remind myself to discuss his sermons on God’s grace and its abuses, his sermon delivery … like comparing him with the eloquence of David Jeremiah of the Shadow Mountain Community Church in CA, etc., etc.


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Donnie Cruz
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Did I miss anything important?

September 5 2005, 10:17 PM 

“Did I miss anything important during my 2-week absence?” That was the question I asked at another forum. Chuck Sonn responded: “preacher phil continues to preach the gospel of grace which leads to obedience. i like how he is handling the Word of God. the balcony continues to fill up more each week with new faces. been seeing more faces from the past coming back for whatever reason.”

Rather interesting comment regarding how the “church growth scheme” is doing at Madison! Hmmm!!!!! I have reviewed the stats for August: 1881 … 1823 … 1772 … 2128. Wow! [We’ll talk more about this later.] Key expressions from Chuck’s observations: “NEW FACES” and “MORE FACES FROM THE PAST

I have made this statement a number of times before—something to the effect that “church growth” is the result of a “collection of ‘saints’ from different churches [religious groups] in the community or region.”

Let’s see what research has shown. Mark Dunagan of the Beaverton congregation in Oregon has this to say in his article “The Community Church Movement”:

    Willow Creek, which is held up as the model of church growth, recently did an internal audit, in which they found that only 2% of their growth consisted of new converts. The rest of the people simply came from other churches in the area. MacArthur observes, “User-friendly, entertainment-oriented, market-driven, pragmatic churches will probably continue to flourish for a while. Unfortunately, however, the whole movement is based on current fashion and therefore cannot last long. When the fickle winds finally change, one of three things may happen. These churches will fall out of vogue and wane; or they will opt to change with the spirit of the age and very likely abandon any semblance of biblical Christianity; or they will see the need to rebuild on a more sure foundation” (p. 188).

We shall continue to discuss….


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Ken Sublett
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Yes, you missed it.

September 5 2005, 10:51 PM 

While you were out for a few microseconds WE have turned HOSTILE against the Church Growth Cult. Now, that is all wrong. The new stuff I feel brewing seems to be a take off of CM and

However, the very LATEST of the LATEST is called The Missional Church.

Now, being a rational type YOU think that means that we are gonna get all of the singy-clappies and false preachers out of the Widows trough and install a GO button. But, whoa! Missional is a Third Incarnation of the Mountain of Ministry Madness: MMM or 3M, melts in their purse; not in your mouth.

You remember that I linked an article from Shelly-York Inc. called the Located Missionary?

You will hear Missional Meetings, Missional Teams, Missional Budgets, Missional Musical Teams and Musical Planning and Procedures. I am sure that people are forming Located Missional Forums staffed by the Horizontal Recliner Evangelist Specialists and Missionaries in Residence.

The Mennonites and probably others already offer a Ph.Duh in The Missional Church. I am sure that you can get an associates degree in Mistress of Missional Ministry or Missional Administration.

Look for your Missional Revised Version!

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(no login)

Re: Yes, you missed it.

September 13 2005, 9:55 AM 

Any more missional talk?

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Donnie Cruz
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“Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss”

October 3 2005, 3:01 AM 

I have already posted the following (cf. thread: “I am music and I write the songs”; post dated June 5, 2005), but it is worth repeating here. Madison’s “Worship Leader,” along with his musical worship praise team, was on tour this Sunday (10/2/05). But the “Contemporary Musical Worship HourPlus” had a substitute Praise Team [also with their “own” microphones]. There were 11 or 12 contemporary “Christian” musical pieces sung/performed—ALL contemporary—and NOT ONE from the hymnbook. A couple of these would be erotic/romantic songs to someone who knows nothing about Christianity. Hopefully, there was no atheist or pagan in attendance. So, here’s the post:

“Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss”

Graham Kendrick, who wrote the following song in 1995, is ALSO one of those who have exploited the “Christian music” business for profit in the name of the Christian religion. He has written “several hundred songs” that organizations such as promote. There are a few of Kendrick’s religious music pieces that are ALSO in Keith Lancaster’s collection of songs for Madison (see notebook #170).

Doesn’t any man or woman wonder about the emotional or erotic impact on his/her nerve endings when certain words or expressions in the song are uttered … whether or not the name of Jesus is mentioned in the song? As the chairman/president of the BBN (Bible Broadcasting Network) has said recently about CCM (Contemporary Christian Music), many men are embarrassed and do not participate in the singing of certain contemporary songs that express how “beautiful” Jesus is, etc. The song “I Stand in Awe” [really?] begins with: “You are beautiful beyond description.”

Well, again, in the song below, certain words such as “you” and “your” are not capitalized to get my point across. You know, there are some songs of romance that contain expressions as “your love divine.” But the word “divine” in a natural love song does not qualify it as a hymn or spiritual song. So, are you ready?

    Title: “I Was Made for This”

    [v.1] Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss,
    to know a love divine, to know this love is mine,
    and I was made to laugh and I was made to sing,
    given the gift of life, you gave me everything.

    [v.2] My feet were made to dance, my spirit made to soar.
    My life is not by chance, you give me more and more,
    for I was made for you and I have made my choice,
    and all that stole my joy I left at the cross.

    [v.3] When I was far away you ran to welcome me.
    I felt your warm embrace; I saw your smiling face,
    and when you rescued me I saw my destiny:
    to worship you my Lord, to be a friend of God.

    So I will celebrate and drink your cup of joy.
    I will give thanks each day and sing.
    My joy is found in you and you are all my joy.
    Oh, I was made for this.
    I was made to love you Jesus. I was made for this.
    Oh, I was made to love you Jesus. I was made for this.

Well, there are too many I … I … I … I … I … me … and … my.

What about just singing “Jesus loves me! This I know, for the Bible tells me so.” Or, “Let the beauty of Jesus be SEEN IN ME all His wonderful passion and purity.”


Well, here’s another one for your consideration:

    Title: “In Moments Like These”

    In moments like these I sing out a song,
    I sing out a love song to Jesus.
    In moments like these I lift up my voice,
    I lift up my voice to the Lord.
    Singing I love you Lord, singing I love you Lord,
    Singing I love you Lord I love you.
    Singing I love you Lord, singing I love you Lord,
    Singing I love you Lord I love you.
    [Exactly as on the sheet … except that “You” is not capitalized here]

Wonder why surveys show that many “Christian men” refuse or are hesitant to sing erotic/romantic songs like these to Jesus??? Additional note: I haven’t heard of English-speaking nations having a male family member named “Jesus” or “Judas.” But watch out when this song is translated, e.g., into Spanish. Alberto would be singing a love song to Jesus.


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Joe Spivy
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Why don't some men sing?

October 3 2005, 7:04 PM 

I don't know--I've never met one who expressed such concerns. I'm really wondering, and I'm not trying to imply anything other than an honest question, have you ever met a man who expressed such unease (unless prompted by another)?

If that is the case, why would this song not bother them?

There is a name I love to hear, I love to sing its worth;
It sounds like music in my ear, the sweetest name on earth.
Oh, how I love Jesus,
Oh, how I love Jesus,
Oh, how I love Jesus,
Because he first loved me.

If it were sung, "first and last verses only" , would an atheist be led to believe it were "erotic".

Or could it be when its a song I grew up with (as I grew up singing "Oh, How I Love Jesus") that I would never think to question the intent of the song or its interpretation but when its a song that I'm unfamiliar with or, quite obviously, one whose "style" someone dislikes they begin to "see" problems and suggestive undertones that others who are unenlightened and innocent enough to interpret within the relationship of humble servant adoring a loving Savior just don't see.

I sometimes wonder if its not just a matter of some guys are so nervous with the very word "love" and so messed up as to what it means (last I checked, John wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that "God is love") that they will always feel more comfortable singing about something else.

God bless.

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(no login)

Re: Why don't some men sing?

October 3 2005, 10:24 PM 

you have too much time on your hands donnie if you are worried about this!

Worry more about the homeless, the addicts, etc. than a song.
you really think Jesus cares a lick about a silly song.

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Donnie Cruz
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What should some men sing?

October 4 2005, 6:18 AM 

Quite to the contrary, Kent, I do not have the luxury of wasting the rest of my waking hours writing about self-serving, erotic songs. But you may have given me an idea that I may prefer, after all, the “Ave Maria” [Hail Mary, Mother of God] Catholic prayer/song to singing, “Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss.”

Worrying about the homeless and the addicts vs. worrying about erotic songs? Sounds like comparing “a cow and a pineapple” to me!

As to your last question, “You really think Jesus cares a lick about a silly song?” I know the answer. What do you think?

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Donnie Cruz
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Re: Why don't some men sing?

October 4 2005, 6:32 AM 


I don’t know … why should a man “confess” his concern about an “erotic” song to someone else? Think about it. Well, maybe, if there is a confession booth.

One thing we need to remind ourselves is the “me” generation we’re living in. There is a difference between a hymn that “teaches and admonishes” in loving God BECAUSE He first loved me versus a singy-clappy praise music about a love song to Jesus—“Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss.”

I believe it best to fully express the meaning or message of this 1855 (not 2005) hymn:

    [v.1] There is a name I love to hear,
    I love to sing its worth;
    It sounds like music in mine ear,
    The sweetest name on earth.

    [v.2] It tells me of a Savior’s love,
    Who died to set me free;
    It tells me of His precious blood,
    The sinner’s perfect plea.

    [v.3] It tells of One whose loving heart
    Can feel my deepest woe;
    Who in each sorrow bears a part,
    That none can bear below.

    [Chorus] O how I love Jesus,
    O how I love Jesus,
    O how I love Jesus,
    Because He first loved me.

“O how I love Jesus” is an expression of devotion in response to “because of His precious blood that my Savior first loved me.” In contrast, it’s I—personally—REMINDING someone forgetful or I am BRAGGING about SELF in “I was made to love YOU, Jesus” or “to know your tender kiss.”

Please don’t forget that I mentioned “survey” at the outset. BBN is not a church-of-Christ-related radio/web program. Besides, the survey/research also indicated that contemporary “Christian” music impacts or influences the women much more than the men by a wide margin.


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Donnie Cruz
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BBN’s Perspective — “CCM Music” (by Dr. Lowell Davey)

October 5 2005, 5:14 AM 



Perspective — “CCM Music”

I picked up a national magazine this past week, and the article that caught my eye was about the explosive growth of evangelical churches in America. Many of the megachurches are franchising their name like the commercial world. Some of these churches have "ministries" that bring in millions of dollars from coffee shops, restaurants, auto repairs, book stores, consulting arms, rock concerts, affiliate fees and others things that develop income. Some preach the "Prosperity Gospel" taking in millions, while sharing false teachings and phony miracles with a message of self-evaluation and positive thinking.

One clear identity of all of these "megachurches" and media outreaches is not the Bible, evangelism, teaching or preaching. It is the rock music. It is the glue that holds it altogether. Who would have thought that the Church of Jesus Christ would one day utilize a music that is totally sexual in its origin and designed with a beat that drives the physical body to an emotional ecstasy and calls it "worship."

A book I recently received had the words of several Contemporary Christian Music songs. They spoke of some fantasy relationship. Because God, or Jesus, or a Biblical reference, or spiritual implication was not included in most of the songs, they could apply to any physical love affair between two people. The songs had intimate statements that I could hardly believe. I thought, how would a teenager interpret these? How would an unsaved person read this? The fantasy of a love relationship would quickly appeal to a fleshly interpretation. Put the rock beat with the words and you’ve got the picture.

In the book BBN is sharing this month, Dan Lucarini, who was a worship leader in a CCM church, says, "Like other contemporaries, I was blind to the subtle, sexual influences creeping into my worship teams and unwilling to admit that my worship music could possibly be tainted with sex."

Because of our concern at BBN about this sensitive issue, we will be focusing on music this month. We believe it is a battleground where Satan is deceiving many Christians. After all, he knows the power of music. He was the choir leader in heaven before his fall, and many of his choir members fell with him. I do not know the music they played or sang, but I am sure of one thing. He knows that music is a powerful tool to move people, and he is determined to destroy the Church of Jesus Christ. What better way than to use the tool he is most familiar with - music.

July is a summer month that is always a financial challenge, and we trust you will share during this time a special gift so that we may share the most beautiful music this side of heaven. "To God Be The Glory, Great Things He Hath Done" Thank You!

Article by Lowell Davey
President of BBN


Bible Broadcasting Network International

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Donnie Cruz
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Headline News in 2002: “Concerned Members” Mentioned?

October 10 2005, 5:46 AM 

Headline News

Madison’s conflict reflects broader issues

By Lindy Adams
January 21, 2002

The Christian Chronicle - Its name is legendary and brings to mind legendary people and associations. It was our first multi-faceted, multi-programmed mega-church.

It’s the church led by Jim Mankin, Jimmy Sites, Steve Flatt and, of course, the inimitable Ira North. It’s Amazing Grace Bible Class, Happy Hills Boys Ranch, song leader Nick Boone — yes, Pat’s brother.

It’s Madison.

It’s the church on Gallatin Road in suburban Nashville, Tenn., which under the leadership of bigger-than-life Ira North, went from being a typical congregation to being what some considered our flagship. In its heyday it was the largest congregation in churches of Christ.

But in recent years Madison has fallen on hard times.

North succumbed to cancer in the 1984 and in the years since the congregation has gone from a well-oiled machine to one in need of overhaul.

However, recent attempts at an overhaul put those committed to the old ways and those seeking the new at terrible odds.

Tensions rose. Tempers flared. Members were set against members. Some left.

At the end of 1998, Madison’s Sunday morning attendance was 3,240. Today it is 2,433, a loss of about 800 members, according to Jerry Sherrill, Madison’s business administrator.

So traumatic, so heart-breaking, so disconcerting.

But too typical.

Across the nation religious groups from Baha’i to Baptist are embroiled in similar conflict, reports Faith Communities Today, a research project of the Lilly Endowment which released its findings on 42 U.S. religious bodies last March. Frequently the conflict centers on worship issues.

The FACT study — which included data from congregations among churches of Christ — found that 59 percent of all religious bodies nationwide changed worship practices a “great deal” in the last five years and that such change brought conflict.

As any attentive observer knows, our fellowship is no exception. Since mid-August, word of conflict in 11 congregations has been reported to the Chronicle. The discord is of several sorts, but often regards worship.

But what happened at Madison?

Some parts of the story are disputed. While Madison’s elders declined to discuss the details of the conflict, some members and leaders shared their insights.

The church’s troubles began in earnest in early 2001, members say. A contemporary Sunday morning service in the church’s basement fellowship hall was added to two existing traditional services. The new gathering quickly outgrew its quarters.

In February, elder Buck Dozier read an elders’ statement saying the contemporary service would replace the second traditional Sunday morning service in the main auditorium. The next Sunday some members walked out of the contemporary worship, according to deacon David Hardin.

From that Sunday, the conflict escalated. Madison’s prominence drew coverage in local media — including television reports and two articles in The Tennessean.

A few traditional members, calling themselves “Concerned Members,” began a web site with complaints and reports and mailed 2,500 questionnaires to members polling them about issues.

A member from the traditional worship service called publicly for the elders’ resignation.

Meanwhile, participants in the contemporary worship chafed under decisions by the elders requiring a mixture of traditional and contemporary songs and regulating the length of the sermon.

Practices including use of a praise team on Sunday morning and singing during communion have been prohibited, according to member David Hardin.

However, other Madison sources say such issues are under study.

In September the elders called for help. Larry Sullivan of the Straus Institute for Dispute Resolution, Pepperdine University, made the first of several visits to Madison to help resolve the difficulties.

Sullivan instructed the congregation in dispute resolution skills, conducted interviews with members from various factions and assembled teams to discuss differences. He said Madison, like many churches, is struggling with addressing contemporary culture without abandoning the truths of Christ’s message.

Madison members are frustrated, he said. “They want to reach out and be pertinent to our culture today, yet not lose the underpinnings of the Gospel. I think everybody sees the dilemma and is trying to address it in certain ways.”

As Madison seeks resolution to its ills, what in its experience can offer insight to other churches? Certainly that no church, regardless of prominence, age, history or leadership is immune.

Fifteen years ago few members could have imagined the fracturing that has occurred at Madison, according to sources at the congregation.

As the Madison elders said in their February statement, “… we believe that these times challenge us to humbly re-look at what we think and believe. … We have sought the perfect church in the New Testament, but found them struggling also. We pursued infallible practice and spotless leadership in the Restoration Movement. We found greatness and inspiration, but no perfection. Regardless of our age or position, we all must admit our humanity, and humble ourselves before God.”

COMING IN OUR SERIES ON CONFLICT: the Chronicle will examine additional sources of conflict, how to address them and lessons to be learned from congregations who have lived through strife and endured.


(NOTE: “At the end of 1998, Madison’s Sunday morning attendance was 3,240. Today [that was in January, 2002] it is 2,433, a loss of about 800 members….” For more recent statistics [1,600? … 1,700? …] , see near the beginning of this thread and Madison’s website:

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Jimmy Wren
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Praying and Laying

October 10 2005, 10:01 AM 

Vol. 54, No. 39, September 28, 2005 states the return of the prayer partners to Madison.

Actually the prayer partners may have always been at Madison, I am not sure, but the recent Marcher does assure us that the program is not dead and will be a tool for Mrs. Barnes.

The "prayer partner" program will always be remembered as one of the Gainsville programs from back in the late 70's and early to mid 80's. The preacher who begin this program at Gainsville was fired in the mid 80's for the reoccurring problem of praying and laying with the ladies.

The Marcher reads:

One of the goals of the Mugs ‘N

Muffins Morning is to connect people

through prayer partners. Sharing a

problem with a prayer partner is like

cutting your problem in half,” said

Barnes.“It just lifts the burden on

you so much more when someone

else is also taking your problem to God.

“All Madison ladies are encour-

aged to attend this special time

together and to bring a guest.

In Christ,

Jimmy Wren

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Dr. Bill Crump
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RE: Praying and Laying

October 10 2005, 1:47 PM 

Why are only ladies invited to become "prayer partners"? Don't men also have a "need" to have prayer partners? Just wondering.

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Jimmy Wren
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RE: Praying and Laying

October 10 2005, 6:24 PM 

Hello Dr. Bill

That does seem a bit unusual. Maybe they are trying to keep from having a repeat of Crossroads, you know, the handsome young married preacher with the handsome young married ladies.

A situation like that can drive the elders crazy plus the paying out of hush money from the church treasury.

In Christ,


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Ken Sublett
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Spill your beans? That's obscene!

October 10 2005, 2:47 PM 

Let's see: I have MY problems but if I also take on YOUR problems then I have fewer problems? Do I have it? Just what busy housewifes need: the pastor person conjuring up another affair to keep them from getting bored.

The old SHEPHERDING DODGE again? In his later years Lynn Anderson has turned to the old but new DISCIPLING or SHEPHERDING routine. Everyone gets matched up but some matches are more even than others. See

This is the old Cross Roads and later the Promise Keepers KGB. Having failed in many respects PK has adopted SHEPHERDING which is shades of the International Church of Christ.

And yet these kind of people, though they are as it were of another commonwealth,
no man dares despise, especially those begging friars, because
    they are privy to all men's secrets by means of confessions,
    as they call them. Which yet were no less than treason to discover,
    unless, being got drunk, they have a mind to be pleasant,
      and then all comes out, that is to say by hints
      and conjectures but suppressing the names.

    But if anyone should anger these wasps,
    they'll sufficiently revenge themselves in their public sermons
    and so point out their enemy by circumlocutions
      that there's no one but understands
      whom 'tis they mean, unless he understand nothing at all;

    nor will they give over their barking till you throw the dogs
    a bone. And now tell me, what juggler or mountebank
      you had rather behold than hear them
      rhetorically play the fool in their preachments,

    and yet most sweetly imitating what rhetoricians
    have written touching the art of good speaking?
History proves it: they ALL spill YOUR beans and the Preacher has you by the short hair in case you sass him.

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Donnie Cruz
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“Observation about church conflict” [at Madison]

October 11 2005, 5:08 AM 



    I just read the article by Lindy Adams and am amazed at how this same thing has been played out at so many local congregations. Brownsville Road church of Christ here in Memphis has lost over half of its membership from reports that I receive. My home church at Sycamore View went through similar struggles, but at least for the moment appears to be past this as a problem and is growing rapidly once again. Please see my thoughts on this issue posted on my web site in October 2001 at __________ Memphis, Tenn.


    In the war of words it is funny how the selection of terms can change things. For example, is it anti-abortion or is it pro-life? Is someone pro-abortion or are they just pro-choice?

    In your January issue story about the conflict at the Madison congregation, there were those pesky words again — “traditional” and “contemporary.” Is it traditional or is it scriptural? (“We certainly don’t want to be bound by those nasty old man made traditions”). Is it contemporary or is it just plain un-scriptural? ________________@_________


    I appreciated the recent article the Chronicle ran on the Madison Church of Christ. I’m 41 and went there all my life. My mom and sister (went there) for 50 years. In December we all had to leave. It was heartbreaking. It will never be the same again.

    We did all that we could do — met with elders, wrote many letters to the elders, went to group meetings, met with Larry Sullivan from Pepperdine (the mediator), even helped in getting over 700 people to sign a petition to restore our church. After (that) one elder said to the whole congregation, ‘Just get over it’ (That was) how things (were) going to continue, (so) we left. It is a spirit church. We left the last Sunday of October 2001 and on the first Sunday of December. We placed membership at the Neely’s Bend Church of Christ here in Madison. ___________@_____


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Jimmy Wren
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submitted article by a Kentucky Preacher

October 12 2005, 10:26 PM 

By Steve Higginbotham
April 15, 2005

At least in four Old Testament passages, the expression, "The Beauty of Holiness" is employed. Holiness is indeed beautiful. As good as repentance, confession and forgiveness are, holiness better. We live in a time when the value and beauty of holiness is not recognized, and is not seen for what it is.

In fact, rather than focusing upon the "Beauty of Holiness," we live in a time when people have flip-flopped this biblical expression and are being deceived by what they think is the "Holiness of Beauty."

Just look around. Take note of how the church seems more preoccupied with "beauty," rather than "holiness." Want an example? Congregational singing is giving way in some churches to special group singing and choruses. Forget about the "beauty of holiness" in the cracking, failing voice of an aged Christian widow singing, "Heaven Will Surely Be Worth It All," and make room for the perceived "holiness of beauty" in the melodic, trained voices of professional singers.

Friends, don't misunderstand. There is nothing wrong in beauty, it's just not our aim. Our aim is holiness. The value is not in beauty, but holiness. Remember we are to worship God in the "beauty of holiness," not in the "holiness of beauty."

"Give unto the LORD the glory due to His name; Worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness" (Psalm 29:2).

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(no login)

Re: submitted article by a Kentucky Preacher

October 14 2005, 4:13 PM 

I noticed most of the articles about church conflict are dated several years ago. Ya'll think the conflict is over and Ya'll aint woke up and realized you lost???

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Donnie Cruz
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What about dating back to centuries or over 2 millennia ago?

October 15 2005, 11:36 AM 


Disregarding facts dating back to several years ago does not help in deterring church conflicts which often can be avoided when leaders of the church are forewarned. Maybe, you have no interest in history. And, if so, there’s nothing I can do to reverse that situation—that’s really up to you.

A lot of lessons can be learned from the Holy Scripture. For example:

  • I Timothy 4:1-3 states—“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils. Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears….”

  • Hebrews 13:9—“Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines

  • I Peter 2:1—“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”

The coming of Christ and the establishment of the church had been prophesied and both came to pass over two millennia ago. Are they now irrelevant? No, Eddie, we’ve been awake all along. Besides, the church will survive and endure to the end.


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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

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