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"I am Music and I write the songs."

May 30 2005 at 10:12 AM
David Rhoades  (no login)
from IP address 65.1.117.207

I received the following email and I thought you might be interested;

"Thanks for your heads-up about worship leaders --article dated April 6, '03.( http://www.concernedmembers.com/editorials/secretconversion.htm#part7 ) I wasn't aware of Amos 6.5. Your article also reminded me of the song (I think written by Barry Manilow) that goes "I am Music and I write the songs."
God bless, Sandra



I looked the words up, and this is what I found;

I Write The Songs


-Artist: Barry Manilow as sung on "Greatest Hits" -Arista A2L 8601
-peak Billboard position # 1 in 1976
-Words and Music by Bruce Johnston
(apparently Barry *doesn't* "write the songs"!)

I've been alive forever, and I wrote the very first song
I put the words and the melodies together
I am music and I write the songs

CHORUS
I write the songs that make the whole world sing
I write the songs of love and special things
I write the songs that make the young girls cry
I write the songs, I write the songs

My home lies deep within you
And I've got my own place in your soul
Now, when I look out through your eyes
I'm young again, even though I'm very old

CHORUS

Oh my music makes you dance
And gives you spirit to take a chance
And I wrote some rock 'n' roll so you can move
Music fills your heart
Well, that's a real fine place to start
It's from me it's for you
It's from you, it's for me
It's a worldwide symphony

CHORUS
CHORUS

I am Music (music) and I write the songs


Transcribed by Robin Hood

These lyrics were transcribed from the specific recording mentioned above
and do not necessarily correspond with lyrics from other recordings, sheet
music, songbooks or lyrics printed on album jackets.

 
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AuthorReply
Donnie Cruz
(no login)
67.32.214.99

Re: I am “music” and ….

May 30 2005, 3:24 PM 

This is an excellent thread! Much can be discussed about contemporary “music” in today’s contemporary “worship services.” From the lack of scriptural evidence for “music” itself in the New Testament to its practical application in the “assembly of the saints” as endorsed by the man-designated “Worship Leader” … shall we discuss?

To start off, music is mentioned very infrequently in the New Testament. Even the NIV “New Ignorance Version” (sorry, it’s actually the “New International Version”) … mentions the word “music” only three times, and only in one instance does it agree with the KJV in the same context.

First, the NIV:

    Luke 15:25—“Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. “

    Ephesians 5:19—“Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord…”

    Revelation 18:22—“The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be heard in you again.”

Now, the KJV:

    Luke 15:25—“Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing

    Ephesians 5:19—“Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord…”

    Revelation 18:22—“And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee.”

Notice that the KJV mentions the word “music” only once and in the context that has NOTHING to do at all with “MAKING MUSIC” in the gathering of the saints. In fact, it has to do with the story of what we know as “The Prodigal Son.”

We’ll discuss this issue of “making music” in the assembly later on, but for now, since the thread has given us an example of the kind of music that could very well be on the list of “Contemporary Christian Music,” let’s cite another example of the kind of music that is very popular among the youth of certain congregations.

In Madison’s notebook #85 titled “This Is How We Overcome” (another one of those 7/11 musical pieces [repeat same 7 words 11 times]) and “This is how we overcome” in the chorus is actually repeated several times … there is a line that is literally interpreted and put into action by a few of the young people. “You have turned my mourning into dancing…” is the line. The young people, taught by the Worship Leader to sing it this way, aren’t able to translate the word “mourning” into action, but watch them do a physical 360-degree turn to illustrate the point that after something (it’s not “mourning” … it is something else) can be turned into DANCING—i.e., literally dancing.

So, briefly, as a matter of interpretation, how different is CCM #85’s “You have turned my mourning into dancing” from one the greatest hits’ chorus:

    Oh my music makes you dance
    And gives you spirit to take a chance
    And I wrote some rock 'n' roll so you can move
    Music fills your heart
    Well, that's a real fine place to start
    It's from me it's for you
    It's from you, it's for me
    It's a worldwide symphony


Eh…?

Donnie

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
66.169.126.183

Understandest thou what thou singest?

May 30 2005, 6:24 PM 

Understandest thou what thou readest? Acts 8:30

The same question could be asked about singing. Understandest thou what thou singest?

In Colossians 3:16 we are told to “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”

Our singing is a means of teachings. Knowing the importance of the things that we are teaching, one should give the utmost attentions to getting it “understandable” and “correct.”

Such is not always the case with the disciples of Keith Lancaster. It seems that “entertainment” is the motivating factor behind his contemporary music.”

The following is taken from Keith’s web site at: http://www.acappella.org/lyrics.htm

Often, people are singing along with the song and singing the wrong words. On a few occasions, we have been accused of cursing, supporting all manner of sinful activities, and supporting political platforms. All because someone misunderstood the words.

Perhaps it might be better if that type of “MUSIC” was left to the world.

In Christian Love,

Jimmy

 
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Estill B.
(no login)
66.82.9.88

Re: Understandest thou what thou singest?

May 31 2005, 6:36 AM 

So, Jimmy.

You're making it Keith's fault because someone misunderstands the words to an Acappella song?

E.B.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
66.169.126.183

Yes, Indeed!

May 31 2005, 10:49 AM 

Hello Estill,

I have not heard from you in a while. Welcome to this discussion.

Your question was: “You're making it Keith's fault because someone misunderstands the words to an Acappella song?”

Jimmy answers: YES INDEED! The man in charge is the one responsible. We are not talking about “someone.” Keith wrote “OFTEN, PEOPLE…” Since this would seem NOT to just be a person who was not paying attention but “people” who really could not, but thought they did, understand the words of the SONGS! If the “PEOPLE” thought that the singers were “CURSING” it looks to me like that would certainly be part or ALL of Kieth’s fault. People can only understand what they hear. Keith is the one responsible, isn’t he? I mean the web site claims that he is.

It would be simple to just change a few “words” in the song. Why continue to use “words” that sound like “curse words?” Unless that is the results you desire.

A song is written by a man and it can be re-written by the man.

The Bible has this to say about “WORDS”:

“For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” Matthew 12:37

“So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.” 1 Corinthians 14:9-11

“If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.” 1 Timothy 4:6

“Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.” 2 Timothy 1:13

“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;” Jude 1:17

“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words…” Revelation 1:3


*********************************************************************

It seems like a lot of Keith’s works of “words” would fall into the following category:

“Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.” 2 Timothy 2:14

“And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not…” 2 Peter 2:3

“For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.” 2 Peter 2:18

Words can be used in a correct manner, but words can also be used in an incorrect manner. It seems that some of Kieth’s would fall into the incorrect manner.

In Christian Love,

Jimmy

 
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Estill B.
(no login)
66.82.9.24

Re: Yes, Indeed!

May 31 2005, 1:03 PM 

My original question was: “You're making it Keith's fault because someone misunderstands the words to an Acappella song?”

Your answer, Jimmy, was: The man in charge is the one responsible. We are not talking about “someone.” Keith wrote “OFTEN, PEOPLE…” Since this would seem NOT to just be a person who was not paying attention but “people” who really could not, but thought they did, understand the words of the SONGS! If the “PEOPLE” thought that the singers were “CURSING” it looks to me like that would certainly be part or ALL of Kieth’s fault. People can only understand what they hear. Keith is the one responsible, isn’t he? I mean the web site claims that he is.

Let me rephrase: “You're making it Keith's fault because some PEOPLE misunderstand the words to an Acappella song?”

Here is the direct quote from the website:

“We often get requests from people wishing to know the lyrics to a certain song. Over the years, we have released more than eighty titles. That would put us somewhere around 850 songs and thousands of words that someone will want to figure out. Often, people are singing along with the song and singing the wrong words. On a few occasions, we have been accused of cursing, supporting all manner of sinful activities, and supporting political platforms. All because someone misunderstood the words.

So, to make things easier on the lyrically starving masses, we have posted every word to every song on the official Acappella Company Lyrics Website... also called acadisc.com. This wonderful site (which also has lyrics to other group's songs as well) is monitored by Ken Pittman and run by volunteers. Drop by and tell them we sent you.”

So, where does it say (as you have stated) “Keith is the one responsible, isn’t he? I mean the web site claims that he is”?

From this DIRECT QUOTE from the website, it seems to be their stance that because someone or some PEOPLE misunderstood the words to either one or more songs, that they wish to direct these PEOPLE to the correct lyrics.

When we have a solid argument, we can make it. Our credibility suffers when we make arguments that aren’t there.

E.B.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
66.169.126.183

No I Am Not.

May 31 2005, 4:31 PM 

Estill writes: “Let me rephrase: You're making it Keith's fault because some PEOPLE misunderstand the words to an Acappella song?”

Jimmy comments: No! If some people, on ONE occasion, misunderstood the words to ONE song we would not even be discussing it. Okay! Do you understand that my answer is no.

My original comments were: Understandest thou what thou singest?

In Colossians 3:16 we are told to “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”

Our singing is a means of teachings. Knowing the importance of the things that we are teaching, one should give the utmost attentions to getting it “understandable” and “correct.”

Such is not always the case with the disciples of Keith Lancaster. It seems that “entertainment” is the motivating factor behind his contemporary music.”

The following is taken from Keith’s web site at: http://www.acappella.org/lyrics.htm

Often, people are singing along with the song and singing the wrong words. On a few occasions, we have been accused of cursing, supporting all manner of sinful activities, and supporting political platforms. All because someone misunderstood the words.

Perhaps it might be better if that type of “MUSIC” was left to the world.

In Christian Love,

Jimmy

 
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Estill B.
(no login)
66.82.9.78

Re: No I Am Not.

May 31 2005, 6:37 PM 

Jimmy,

Thanks for your "recant?"

My question to you was: "So, where does it say (as you have stated) “Keith is the one responsible, isn’t he? I mean the web site claims that he is"...?

E.B.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
66.169.126.183

Right here!

May 31 2005, 8:17 PM 

Estill write: "My question to you was: So, where does it say (as you have stated) “Keith is the one responsible, isn’t he? I mean the web site claims that he is"...?

Here it is: "Acappella Ministries began in the early 1980's as a dream of a young Keith Lancaster. He knew that God had blessed him with a dream to spread the Gospel to the world through unique, a cappella music. He had the music and the Gospel. The hard part was taking it to the world. All he had was a family, a station wagon, some singers, and a lot of prayers. God blessed his vision and efforts.

It plainly states that this is Keith's dream...God blessed his vision and efforts. Keith is the one person responsible! Or, are you blaming Donnie for this also?

Also I have recanted nothing. I only answered the question you ask. Nothing has changed from my original post!

In Christian Love,

Jimmy

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
66.169.126.183

The Gospel and "sounds of cursing" in the same songs

June 1 2005, 12:40 PM 

Hello Estill,

In my answer “Yes, Indeed!” I pointed out that the web site was not referring to “SOMEONE” as your question did, but rather to “PEOPLE” as in the plural. I also pointed out that this was not a one time occurrence but, as the web sites states: OFTEN.

I also made it clear that this was NOT a person who was not paying attention but “people” who really thought that they did understand the words of the SONGS!

We are not talking about ONE song either! We are talking about many songs, unless of course they sing the same song OFTEN.

Notice: …people singing along are singing the wrong words (surely people understand some of his songs).

Notice: We have been accused of cursing. Which songs sound like cursing?

Notice: …supporting all manner of sinful activities… It would certainly take several songs to include “all manner of sinful activities.”

Notice: …supporting political platforms. Since “platforms” is in the plural, it would take several songs to get all of that in.”


In other words we have this happening OFTEN. People are singing along with the song and singing the wrong words!

My fix for such a problem would be to change a few “words” in each of the songs. Why continue to use “words” that sound like “curse words?” Unless that is the results you desire.
***********************************************************************

In another answer to you: No I Am Not. I wrote: If some people, on ONE occasion, misunderstood the words to ONE song we would not even be discussing it. Okay! Do you understand that my answer is NO.

I don’t see how anyone could fault the CEO or the performers if only at one location, and with only one song, and with only one audience of people, there was a misunderstanding.

But when such happens “OFTEN” it would not be logical to blame the audience. You must place blame where it belongs and that would be with the man in charge. The man in charge is aware of the problem but does he fix it? No! He says go to my web site and read the words of the songs.

I would prefer the man in charge to say “I will give up the “cursing” songs, or I will change some of the “words” of the songs.

There must be some advantage for him to leave the “sounds like cursing words” in. He sure does not intend to “fix” them. Now ain’t that something? On his web site, he claims to be spreading the gospel through his music! Yet on that same web site he acknowledges that "people misunderstand, people think we are cursing, and etc."

Estill, you may not understand or agree with Ken’s post but songs that OFTEN cannot be understood by the audience would be the same as singing in an unknown tongue.

In Christian Love,

Jimmy

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.116

Speaking in Tongues

May 31 2005, 10:58 AM 

Keith is actually hired to directly violate ALL of the direct commands of God. Non and Anti Scriptural songs are speaking in tongues:
    1 Cor 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

    1Co.14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

IF you would obey the example of Jesus to CAST OUT LIKE DUNG the musical minstrels and IF you SPOKE what you are commanded to SPEAK then everyone would LEARN the Biblical TEXT and we would not need to PROCURE a WATERMAN to replace the FREE WATER OF THE WORD. After a few years of speaking the Psalms in song and sermony we would HAVE A KNOWLEDGE base instead of being DELIBERATELY FOGGED up so that we KNOW NOTHING.

A "tongue" is a minor dialect whereas Koine was a language. The mostly-strangers moving through Corinth would attempt to sing songs of their own making using their own dialect which as with Hebrew and Latin were believed to be more powerful. The songs and prayers came from their OWN SPIRIT and therefore had no teaching value even though they may have sounded more spiritual because of the highly-honed way of even pagan sermonizing and versifying. I enjoy listening to Monks chanting in Latin!

Here is a direct command:
    1 Cor 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the FELLOWSHIP of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

    The church is called OUT of the world but called INTO fellowship weekly. We are CALLED by Him which means that we DISHONOR Him if some theatrical type STANDS IN THE HOLY PLACE.

    1Co.1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

    1Co. 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

Postmodernism and the Purpose Driven Cult intends to create contentions to drive you into schizophrenia and SPOUT, SPOUT, SPOUT garbage slandering "conservatives or traditonalists" all of which means slandering Bible students.

Some say, "I am of Jesus Christ" and so we will speak the Words of Jesus Christ. But SOME say, "We are of KEITH and we will sing and speak the WORDS of Keith as they have been delivered to him." The meaning of BAPTISM is to MAKE DISCIPLES. Joe the Tentmaker knew how to spin and weave black goat's wool, and make seams to make the best tent in the ancient world. Joe would accept you as a DISCIPLE only if he adopted you, washed you, gave you HIS name and you pledged yourself to learn and not divulge his valuable trade secrets.

You DID NOT disciple yourself to Keith, Keith did not BAPTIZE you, give you his name and YOU paid his silliness to TEACH you the mysteries of HIS faith. That is why Paul told the Corinthians in so many words: "Fools love to be fooled."
    1Co. 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

    1Co. 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to PREACH the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Jesus died, Jesus has the MYSTERIES and therefore when our bodies are washed in water HE washes our Spirit so that His words will FIT into our minds. Paul baptized disciples but HE did not make disciples into HIS NAME.

You are all DISCIPLED to Keith and you WRANGLE and produce WRANGLING all over the known world. Now, you are deliberately and WITH A HIGH HAND violating ALL of the direct commands which you SECOND INCARNATE into MUSIC so that you can PREVENT the people from "speaking the same things."

Now the Changeling preachers will REPROACH this as PATTERNISM but they have--for a price too high--a new PARADIGMISM. THEY say that WE cannot speak the same THINGS so that means that YOU cannot fault ME for just GETTING VISONS and hearing God's voice AUDIBLY and "partnering with God" to OBSOLETE the songs and sermons of God. YOU cannot dispute that YOU are enabling his silliness to sing out of HIS OWN SPIRIT. Paul says that this means that he is "just speaking INTO THE AIR." God provided a WAY for ME and I will never get SLICKERED, SUCKERED, SLIMED into the foulest HUCKSTERISM known to church history.

Your are getting your CHARGIES from the CHANGELINGS where singers were ALWAYS "seen as the harem of the gods." You cannot obey Paul's direct command and PLEASURE yourself which means to "get lifted up with singing."
    1 Cor 15:1 WE then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.

    1 Cor 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.

Stroking your PLEASURE CENTERS to, in the words of the Vineyard lady --(aka New Wineskins meaning in Shelly's words to EXHILARATE)-- to experience a CLIMACTIC experience with the Spirit. The NEXT act of worship--naturally as in all pagan prostitute religions--is GIVING OF SUBSTANCE. "You PLAY, you PAY" only fair.

Edification is EDUCATION and the Word of God is the COMMANDED resource: you are NOT speaking the same things but Keith is leading you by the unnameable to PLEASURE you so that you PLAY and PAY.

You DIRECTLY repudiate being Christ-like. You cannot be CHRIST LIKE and see the assembly as PLEASURING
    1 Cor 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
These reproaches in the prophesied Hebrew means NAKEDNESS: that is you EXPOSE the nakedness VIRTUALLY and this historically has led to extra curricular exposure. Plato called it "gender bleed" or "gender crossover."
    Psa 69:9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

    Chresis (g5540) khray'-sis; from 5530; employment, i.e. (spec.) sexual intercourse

    For the zeal (jealousy) of thine house (temple) hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me. Psalm 69:9

    Cherphah (h2781) kher-paw'; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda: - rebuke, reproach (-fully), shame.

    Charizesthai erastais Pederasty musicians, odes, Mousa paidikee, which are mere play for him. A nomos for cinaedi [dogs] by a Sybarite Hemitheon is mentioned by Lucian adv. ind. 23 (cf. Pseudo-Lucian 3).

      Luke 7:32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

    Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a REPROACH of men, and despised of the people.

    Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

    Psa 22:8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

This word CHERPHAH has many similar Greek words. They all relate to CHARISMATIC (as in Grace Centered or Charis) which is in all paganism musical and homosexual--more real than virtual.

Jesus DIED to give you REST from these musical types (always seen as parasites) and REST specifically says STOP the speaking, singing, playing instruments and on and on. Christ the Spirit is the ONLY Comforter and Keith is NOT Christ:
    1 Cor 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the SCRIPTURES might have hope.

    1 Cor 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

    1 Cor 15:6 That ye may with one MIND and one MOUTH glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. [KEITH is getting the GLORY]

    1 Cor 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us, to the glory of God.

You people have DIRECTLY violated the LETTER and SPIRIT of the direct commands and examples of God Incarnate. Sing, doing Voodoo polyrhythmic clapping, laught and on and on IS mocking Jesus Christ who ONCE came as your ONLY RABBI. And YOU chased Him out and HE took His true lambs with Him because THEY can hear HIS VOICE.

Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3 prove the same thing: there is NO MUSIC connected with the SYNAGOGUE which is a school of the Bible. You HAVE to have a degree in something to NOT be able to see that you are engaged in a 100% pagan religionism DELIBERATELY CALCULATED to drive out the OWNERS so you can suck in seekers more likely to by books, bookings and CDs.

SECRET hidden from the fools who PAY and LOVE to be fooled: The assembly is for EDUCATION, the TEXTBOOK is "that which is written" by the Spirit of Christ (1 Pe 1:11), the METHOD is speaking with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH and the result is PEACE and HARMONY.

You guys are a VISUAL AID of God pouring out His wrath on people AFTER He HAS removed His CANDLESTICK (the seven spirits of Divine Knowledge). The Hebrew prophecy means that He sends you STRONG DELUSIONS in the form of Jesters, buffoons and musicians--all known as PARASITES.

Just MOUTHING words like PREFERENCES and ENJOYING and GROWTH is the MARK that the SPIRIT has fled like His symbols did from the Jerusalem Temple as He went into EXILE with His People and HE NEVER CAME BACK TO THE TEMPLE.

 
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Estill B.
(no login)
66.82.9.24

Re: Speaking in Tongues

May 31 2005, 1:10 PM 

Ken,

You know I don't disagree with your arguments the great majority of the time.

However, you said: "You people have DIRECTLY violated the LETTER and SPIRIT of the direct commands and examples of God Incarnate."

and

"You guys are a VISUAL AID of God pouring out His wrath on people AFTER He HAS removed His CANDLESTICK (the seven spirits of Divine Knowledge)."

Jimmy and I are the only others on this thread. Are you talking to both of us?

I'll never understand why you must personally attack someone for trying to have a civil debate.

E.B.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
63.84.81.38

singing in tongues

May 31 2005, 5:37 PM 

E.B. the issue was the TEAM and KEITH, not you!

Ken

 
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Estill
(no login)
66.82.9.52

Re: singing in tongues

June 2 2005, 5:23 AM 

Okay, thanks.

When you used "you people" and "you guys" it looked like you were talking to either Jimmy or me since we were having a discussion.

E.B.

 
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zac
(no login)
67.108.187.129

Seriously

December 15 2006, 1:30 PM 

You're making a big deal out of this. Any word can be misunderstood for another word or words. I could sing Jesus and someone could think I said "cheese sucks" I could say the phrase "sweet innocence" and they would think I said "sweet as sex". Most of these songs are taken directly from the bible anyway. Are you gonna dispute those too. Clearly you have a biased opinion because you don't like this music. I don't see how you make such a big deal out of misunderstood words.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
68.19.232.114

“You are the one for me”

June 1 2005, 4:59 AM 

The following musical praise chorus is in the notebook that Keith uses at Madison. The song, written by Keith Green, is arranged by Keith Lancaster. I am assuming that Keith’s arrangement allows the “Leader” to sing [perform] his/her “lead” part to a noticeably different tune while the others sing the regular tune. It is written below intentionally without capitalizing the word “you” to get my point across:

    Title: “You Are the One for Me”

    Leader:

    How I love, you are the one, yes you are the one,
    Oh, how I love, ‘cause you are the one, Oh [repeat]

    Followers:

    I was so lost, but you showed me the way,
    ‘cause you are the way,
    I was so lost, but you showed the way to me.
    ------[repeat … whatever … repeat … ha-ha-ha …]
    ------[the c,c,1,c,2,c,3,c,c and the “oh” … I’m confused]

    Ending:

    Yes, you are the one for me,
    Yes, you are the one for me.

Sorry, honestly, my mind is too tired right now to figure out all the musical symbols and the oh-oh-oh and c,c,c,c,1,2,1,3,3,c,1,1,2, bla-bla-bla. But I think you get the message that this would be a “worldly” erotic pop song if the listener weren’t already a Christian or were someone who knew nothing at all about Christ in the first place. Yet praise choruses, such as this one, are designed to entertain and please the “seekers” so they will come back to the “worship service” or visit and be with the “believers” to JOIN in “worship.”

Donnie

P.S.: I wonder if I have the will to post next time another song with a misleading title, “If You Miss Me.” This one starts with these words: “If you miss me from a singin’ down here you can’t find me nowhere nowhere…” Yup, “you can’t find me nowhere.” This one reminds me of another song titled, “My Lord, He Done Done” or “Jesus Will Fix It” [fix what?????????]

 
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zac
(Login heartsinger)
67.108.187.129

what's wrong

December 15 2006, 4:13 PM 

What is wrong with making people wanna come back to church. What's wrong with fun at church. God is awesome! When you truly worship him you can't help but smile. We're here to be an example to others and show them the way. There is joy in the Lord. The christian life isn't an easy one, but there will always be joy in the Lord. How I love Him, he is the one for me!

 
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Gary
(no login)
72.237.167.11

Re: what's wrong

May 28 2010, 6:45 PM 

THis is the first real logical truth someone has said so far. Everything this person said we need to believe!!

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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65.1.104.159

Re: what's wrong

May 29 2010, 1:02 AM 

I don't recall any New Testament passage describing worship as "fun." That word should be used to describe the goings-on at carnivals, theaters, side-shows, and the Broadway stage. Of course, worship is NOTHING like those worldly places, is it now? Yet that's exactly the environment that man has introduced into many modern "churches." The "services" are crammed with so much "fun" that they are hardly distinguishable from three-ring circuses. Yet man will do what he can to fill the pews with entertainment-hungry folks. And they call worldly entertainment "worship."

 
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Jimmy Wren
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66.169.126.183

It's all about flow. Flow money, flow!

June 2 2005, 12:52 AM 

It’s not about CONGREGATIONAL SINGING, with praise teams. It is not about WORSHIP with praise teams. It’s all about leadership, or to use their own words, it is all about FLOW! It is about keeping the services “MOVING” from one point to another in an exciting, entertaining way.

Some excerpts for this lesson will be used from “Worship Leaders Magazine.”

Many Churches of Christ use to enjoy congregational singing. We would take our hymn book, all turn to the same song, some one selected to lead the congregation in the service that day would start the song and everyone would join in.

There was no one to “rush” you. There were no “special” singers “selected and ordained” before hand to hold up the song leader. There were no “paid” singers, i.e. no one had to be paid to worship.

The songs were simple songs. The songs had a purpose to them. Just as the preacher would read a simple text from the Bible for his sermon, the congregation would sing a sermon in song.

The services were planned with a time allocated for congregational singing. There were no ulterior motives to the congregational singing.

The singing was not for the purpose of entertaining the visitors.

The singing was not for the purpose of taking the boredom out of the worship.

The singing was not for the purpose of leading the worshippers into the presence God.

The singing was not for the purpose of exciting a rhythmic, energetic feeling in one’s body.


It was a simple service, with simple Christians worshipping God.

What changed it in some places? Money. It is all about money. If you don’t think that it is about money let me challenge you to stop paying your worship leader and your praise team and see how dependable they are for your worship! And it is not just the paid performers that hang in for the dough, your elders think the crowds will become larger, and larger crowds equate to more money. It is not spiritual, it is money. LUST, LUST, and more LUST.

Having said that let us turn our attention to the purpose of the worship leader and the praise team.

Worship Leader Magazine states:“Rhythm affects the body; it creates a holistic response which helps to bring the rest of the person – mind and spirit – into the flow. That’s why the transitions between fast and slow songs are so important.”

This reminds me of the children of Israel at Mount Sinai. “ And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.” Exodus 32:1

Eugene Peterson says we can’t see Jesus or God so we have to use our imagination. Rubel Shelly says we “take the Jesus” from the Bible. Dallas Willard says “God spoke to me.” John York says “live a Spirit empowered life.”

Some of those that use to encourage a person to study and live what the Bible teach, no longer do that. Rubel and York lead us to believe that the Bible is to be interpreted by the “scholars.”

No wonder we find such “organized chaos” in some congregations. Look at what the children of Israel did without Moses. “And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.” Exodus 32:6

The Israelites were “religious.” They took care of worship at an early hour. They brought their offerings. But they took their instructions and leadership from someone other then God or Moses.

Some congregations are allowing worship leaders to lead the congregation into a certain rhythm that affects the body of the Christian, or listener, and creates a holistic response which helps to bring the person into the flow.

Worship Leader Magazine: Any worship leader has to master Theme, Key and Tempo,” Baloche explains. “I call them the ‘Flow Factors’ and they are the building blocks to creating a seamless service.”

Jimmy comments: Is that what congregational singing is all about?

Worship Leader Magazine: We think picking the right songs is what matters and, of course, that’s a vital consideration. But it’s what happens between and around those songs that really make for a successful service.

Jimmy comments: There you have it folks! The success is not the songs, it is what happens between and around the songs that count! That is why you have so many La La La La La La Do Do Da Das between lines of songs.

Worship Leader Magazine: Thorough rehearsal, according to Park, is essential for both the structure and spontaneity of a service… Park puts a slightly different spin on the subject of congregational response. “A lack of reaction can be very discouraging,” he acknowledges. “And sometimes you just have to ignore it. You’ve got to purpose to go for what you’re after, no matter what.

Jimmy comments: The worship leaders are to go for what they are after, NO MATTER WHAT! The motivation for the worship leader is a "NO MATTER WHAT!" Boy! That says a lot about these worship leaders!

Well, like most things it may play itself out. Then again the churches could become admission charging arenas of “feel good” entertainment.

In Christian Love,

Jimmy

 
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There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

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This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

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2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
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