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Gary
(no login)
72.237.167.11

Re: It's all about flow. Flow money, flow!

May 28 2010, 6:49 PM 

What is the world are you talking about? You better ask the Lord for help!!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
65.1.109.78

“Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss”

June 5 2005, 1:35 AM 

Graham Kendrick, who wrote the following song in 1995, is ALSO one of those who have exploited the “Christian music” business for profit in the name of the Christian religion. He has written “several hundred songs” that organizations such as www.worshipmusic.com promote. There are a few of Kendrick’s religious music pieces that are ALSO in Keith Lancaster’s collection of songs for Madison (see notebook #170).

Doesn’t any man or woman wonder about the emotional or erotic impact on his/her nerve endings when certain words or expressions in the song are uttered … whether or not the name of Jesus is mentioned in the song? As the chairman/president of the BBN (Bible Broadcasting Network) has said recently about CCM (Contemporary Christian Music), many men are embarrassed and do not participate in the singing of certain contemporary songs that express how “beautiful” Jesus is, etc. The song “I Stand in Awe” [really?] begins with: “You are beautiful beyond description.”

Well, again, in the song below, certain words such as “you” and “your” are not capitalized to get my point across. You know, there are some songs of romance that contain expressions as “your love divine.” But the word “divine” in a natural love song does not qualify it as a hymn or spiritual song. So, are you ready?

    Title: “I Was Made for This”

    [v.1] Oh, I was made for this: to know your tender kiss,
    to know a love divine, to know this love is mine,
    and I was made to laugh and I was made to sing,
    given the gift of life, you gave me everything.

    [v.2] My feet were made to dance, my spirit made to soar.
    My life is not by chance, you give me more and more,
    for I was made for you and I have made my choice,
    and all that stole my joy I left at the cross.

    [v.3] When I was far away you ran to welcome me.
    I felt your warm embrace; I saw your smiling face,
    and when you rescued me I saw my destiny:
    to worship you my Lord, to be a friend of God.

    So I will celebrate and drink your cup of joy.
    I will give thanks each day and sing.
    My joy is found in you and you are all my joy.
    Oh, I was made for this.
    I was made to love you Jesus. I was made for this.
    Oh, I was made to love you Jesus. I was made for this.


Well, there are too many I … I … I … I … I … me … and … my.

What about just singing “Jesus loves me! This I know, for the Bible tells me so.” Or, “Let the beauty of Jesus be SEEN IN ME all His wonderful passion and purity.”

Donnie

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
68.19.237.158

“Ain’t No Rock”—Keith’s Favorite Holy-Roller Praise Music

June 7 2005, 4:29 AM 

I only wish you could actually hear Keith and his “praise” minstrels perform this praise music from “Integrity’s Praise! Music.” I have just met the writer of the music below via Google search, LaMarquis Jefferson. So, let me introduce LaMarquis to you. (Open Keith’s contemporary music notebook exclusively for Madison’s use. “Ain’t No Rock”—notebook #156, arr. Keith Lancaster & Eric Bright.) Here’s the link:

    Source: http://www.bassplayer.com/story.asp?sectioncode=21&storycode=8366

    Track Star

    Session Ace LaMarquis Jefferson Sets the Pace in the Atlanta Studio Scene

    By Kevin Owens | May 2005

    If you’ve heard any of the R&B and hip-hop that’s come out of Atlanta over the last decade, chances are you’ve heard the playing of LaMarquis Jefferson. In addition to being the exclusive bassist for multi-platinum producer Jermaine Dupri, the “king of crunk” Lil Jon, and contemporary R&B singer/songwriter Tony Rich, Jefferson and his grooves have graced recordings from OutKast, TLC (that’s him on “Waterfalls”), Da Brat, Lil’ Kim, MC Lyte, Petey Pablo, and the decidedly un-crunk Michael Bolton, among others. He also recently received a Grammy nomination for his contributions to Usher’s mega-hit “Yeah!” Thanks to his mastery of his instrument, his studio savvy, and his business smarts, the 39-year-old LaMarquis has carved out a niche for himself as a first-call studio bassist in a scene long-dominated by synthetic low end.

    [There’s more about this “first-call studio bassist” from the link above. I think Keith should invite Michael Bolton to co-worshiplead. Keith would need only one Michael Bolton in place of the 3 co-leaders who perform with him with their hand-held microphones—in addition to his Praise Team co-performers … also with their individual microphones.]
    ______________________________


Oh, yes, here’s the praise music—it must be performed with the “Shout!” as indicated:

    Title: “Ain’t No Rock”

    (v.1) Ain’t no rock, [SHOUT: Ain’t no rock!] gonna cry in my place.
    As long as I’m alive I’ll glorify His holy Name!

    (v.2) Ain’t no tree, [SHOUT: Ain’t no tree!] gonna lift its branches.
    I lift my hands to glorify His holy Name!

    (v.3) Ain’t no birds, [SHOUT: Ain’t no birds!] gonna sing in my place.
    I lift my voice to glorify His holy Name!

    Everybody sing praise His holy Name.
    As long as I’m alive I’ll glorify His holy Name!
    Everybody sing praise His only Name.
    As long as I’m alive I’ll glorify His holy Name!


________________________________

Donnie

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
65.1.111.196

“I Can Only Imagine” Being Exposed

June 10 2005, 5:18 AM 

If the title of the post sounds offensive to you, please don’t feel that way. It’s only the title of a CCMM (Contemporary Christian Music Movement) piece “I Can Only Imagine.” This post can be subtitled as:

“Christian” Pop Music “I Can Only Imagine”—Not Congregational Singing-Conducive


That is true! “I Can Only Imagine” (see in Keith’s notebook #104) has been performed by the Praise Team to/for the congregation only a few times since Keith Lancaster’s fulltime employment as Madison’s “Worship Leader.” Yes, only a few times … why? Because he knows that only his Praise Team can perform it best. He also knows that even the “contemporary” congregation finds it difficult to sing. Why? Because it is a one-verse musical piece that literally takes up almost 3 pages of words with the music in Keith’s wide notebook. It certainly was designed to be sung and recorded by a pop artist as a business endeavor. The title also strongly suggests that it be performed best by a soloist.

    Title: “I Can Only Imagine” (by Bart Millard [arr. Eric Bright])

    Leader: I can only imagine what it will be like
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: when I walk by your side.
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine what my eyes will see
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: when Your face is before me.
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine,
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine.
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------

    [14] Chorus ($DS): Surrounded by Your glory what will my heart feel
    Chorus: Will I dance for You, Jesus, or in awe of you be still
    Chorus: Will I stand in Your presence, or to my knees will fall,
    Chorus: Will I sing Hallelujah! Will I be able to speak at all,
    Chorus: I can only imagine,
    Chorus: Oh, I can only imagine. [To Coda 39]

    Leader: I can only imagine when that day comes
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: when I find myself standing in the sun.
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: when all I will do is forever, forever worship You.
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine,
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine. [D.S. (14) al Coda]
    -------------------- Ooh - ------------------------- [D.S. (14) al Coda]

    [39] CODA (Unison): I can only imagine
    CODA: when all I will do is forever,
    CODA: forever worship You.

    Leader: I can only imagine,
    -------------------- Ooh - -------------------------
    Leader: I can only imagine.
    Ooh__: I can only imagine.

_________________________________



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_________________________________


Donnie

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
70.146.150.14

“Will I dance for you, Jesus … I can only imagine”

June 12 2005, 5:40 AM 

Have you directed your “mouse” to the “Click to Buy” button yet?

While you may read “Will I dance for you, Jesus” once and sing it twice, the expression “I can only imagine” is mentioned 14 times and repeated in singing this musical piece at least that many times. It is way more than just the 7-11 contemporary “Christian” music rules—you know, that thingy about “a line of 7 words—repeat 11 times.”

Donnie

 
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John
(no login)
68.32.107.216

Re: “Will I dance for you, Jesus … I can only imagine”

June 12 2005, 10:15 PM 

Donnie, as much as you denigrate it, there is a Biblical precedent for repeating a line multiple times.

Psalm 118
1O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: because his mercy endureth for ever.

2Let Israel now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

3Let the house of Aaron now say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

4Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth for ever.

5I called upon the LORD in distress: the LORD answered me, and set me in a large place.

6The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?

7The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.

8It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

9It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

10All nations compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD will I destroy them.

11They compassed me about; yea, they compassed me about: but in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.

12They compassed me about like bees: they are quenched as the fire of thorns: for in the name of the LORD I will destroy them.

13Thou hast thrust sore at me that I might fall: but the LORD helped me.

14The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation.

15The voice of rejoicing and salvation is in the tabernacles of the righteous: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.

16The right hand of the LORD is exalted: the right hand of the LORD doeth valiantly.

17I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.

18The LORD hath chastened me sore: but he hath not given me over unto death.

19Open to me the gates of righteousness: I will go into them, and I will praise the LORD:

20This gate of the LORD, into which the righteous shall enter.

21I will praise thee: for thou hast heard me, and art become my salvation.

22The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.

23This is the LORD's doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.

24This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

25Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.

26Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

27God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.

28Thou art my God, and I will praise thee: thou art my God, I will exalt thee.

29O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.48.231

RE: "Will I Dance for You, Jesus (John, June 12)

June 13 2005, 2:26 AM 

Before jumping to the Old Testament to justify particular practices for Christian worship, consider two verses:

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking" (Matt. 6:7 KJV).

"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace" (Gal. 5:4 KJV).

Many fall back on the Old Testament to justify practices that are either forbidden in the New Testament or for which a specific precedent does not exist in the New Testament. A common example is the use of instrumental music. Many quote Psalm 150 and use the example of David playing on a stringed instrument. Quoting psalms to justify line repetitions in Christian music follows the same principle.

But since Christians live under the Law of Christ, not the Mosaic Law, there is no justification for seeking to fulfill one's personal desires by resorting to the Old Testament and the Mosaic Law, as Gal. 5:4 warns against.

Are the repetitions of Psalm 118 "vain" or from the "heathen"? Hardly so. But to use an Old Testament psalm to justify the endless repetitions of today's Christian "praise" music is to violate Gal. 5:4.

John's justification for repeating a line multiple times would have merit if he could find New Testament Scripture with a similar example.

 
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John
(no login)
167.219.0.144

Re: RE: "Will I Dance for You, Jesus (John, June 12)

June 13 2005, 11:07 AM 

So is your assertion that the NT church would never have used the Psalms to worship God?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.49.235

RE: "Will I Dance..." (John, June 13)

June 13 2005, 2:35 PM 

John asks, "So is your assertion that the NT church would never have used the Psalms to worship God?"

John's question would divert the discussion away from the immediate issue of using repetitive phrases. A question more pertinent to the issue that John should consider is, "Since Christians no longer follow the OT example of worship, does the NT contain examples of repetititve phrases in Christian music?"

As a further example, Temple worship in the OT utilized musical instruments, and Christ likely participated in such worship. Until He was crucified, Christ also followed the OT and the Mosaic Law. Does that give us license to follow anything about the OT in Christian worship, whether it be the use of musical instruments or repetitive phrases? No, by virtue of Gal. 5:4 (KJV). Our worship is justified only by New Testament example, not by the Old Testament/Old Law.

 
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John
(no login)
167.219.0.144

Re: RE: "Will I Dance..." (John, June 13)

June 13 2005, 4:00 PM 

And yet, we know from Acts 2:46, Acts 3:1, Acts 5:20, and Acts 5:42, that the early church met in the Temple Courts as well as houses.

From this we can make the NECESSARY INFERENCE that they worshipped God in the Temple. Especially since they were all Jews or Proselytes and did not consider themselves something other than Jewish at that point.

Hence we can ascertain that they would have worshipped with both Psalm 118 and Psalm 136, giving us a patter for the 7/11 songs you and Donnie denigrate with such vim and vigor.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.49.166

No Examples of New Testament Repetitions

June 13 2005, 8:48 PM 

My earlier premise still stands: the use of repetitive phrases in Christian music would be justified if John could produce New Testament Scriptures with comparable repetitions. The Scriptures John quotes contain no examples of repetitions. Time to move on.

 
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Speak where the Bible is Silent
(no login)
130.127.121.217

Re: No Examples of New Testament Repetitions

October 29 2008, 4:05 PM 



2 Samuel 22
David's Song of Praise
1 David sang to the LORD the words of this song when the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul.


Acts 16
25About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.

The first passage is from the OT and it speaks of David singing, but not with instruments, YET we know that David used instruments of music.

If God's people used such instruments in the past, why would they stop using them with the first century church?
Was there an edict or command for the first century church to NOT use them?


 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.23

Examples?

November 1 2008, 9:39 PM 

There are TWO THREADS running through the Old Testament. The Evil pagan thread is defined by the king, kingdom, clergy and the sacrificial system which God IMPOSED but did not command as desirable. The GODLY thread was the "church in the wilderness" for reading and discussing the Word of God. The word Sabbath did not mean saturday but REST: the excluded WORK for the rest day would have kept all of the professional performing "ministry staff" locked out.

God rescued Israel by Grace but they "rose up to play" meaning musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. God turned the national government over to worship the starry hosts. When the elders utterly repudiated God and demanded a king "like the nations" God knew that they wanted to worship like the nations. The kings were given in His anger and taken away in His anger.

The national worship at Jerusalem was national and therefore identical to Canaan or Babylon or the Egyptian which they lusted for.

God gave them THE BOOK OF THE LAW to regulate the lawless and at the same tine instituted the Holy Convocation called a Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness. This was INCLUSIVE of reading or hearing the Word of God, and rehearsing it WHILE they rested. It was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing. This came to be every Sabbath for the Spiritual people who were EXCLUDED from the Temple sacrifices when they heard the NOISE never called music. Not even the singers and instrumental noise makers could COME NEAR the holy things: as a pattern that meant that singers and instrument players were EXCLUDED from the Holy Place which was typical of the church in later times.



David never performed as WORSHIP LEADER and he would have been executed if he went into the Holy Place to sing or play: the EXCEPTION of entering when starving EXCLUDES him for "doing a musical performance."

Jesus and the disciples HYMNED A HYMN one of the hallel Psalms which were DEDICATED for events like Passover and NOT to be sung as casual singy-clappy.

The Sacrificial System had been dead for several centuries and the Synagogue was the only religious institution which never changed from the Wilderness onward: Jews say that it existed even in the Patriarchal period. Jesus endorsed the synagogue for reading the Word as a school of the Bible.

At the same time Jesus cast out the musical minstrels "like dung" and consigned the pipers, singers and dancers to the marketplace where all of the pagan rituals took place along with buying and selling bodies and radishes.

Therefore, God's people NEVER EVER at any time or place ever engaged in "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." In fact the singing and playing for the slaughter of innocent animals was RESTRICTED to the Levites, only in Canaan, only in or around Jerusalem and OUTSIDE of the Temple and ALWAYS behind walls to exclude the common people.

Paul's direct command and Jesus' approved example was to READ or SPEAK: that is defined as OPPOSITE of poetry or music. Just common decency: you don't have a self-serving musical performance when Jesus comes to be our SOLE TEACHER and only when the elders as the ordained Pastor-Teachers "teach that which has been taught."

By direct command and universal experience among the Jews, and the universal perverted religionism among the pagans you would HAVE TO HAVE a command to even BEGIN to use any kind of "music" in the school of the Bible. "There was no praise service in the synagogue"

ALL of the numerous instances where the church meets, as commanded to Timothy and practiced for about 4 centuries here is the DIRECT COMMAND for how to conduct church:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The Lord's Supper is also a teaching or preaching visual aid: to that you can add NOTHING based on the universal commands, examples and inferences in the Bible and the historic practice before pagan priests flocked into the church to get paid.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
4.235.93.75

Re: RE: "Will I Dance for You, Jesus (John, June 12)

June 13 2005, 11:45 AM 

Are you saying we are to ignore the teachings of the OT??

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.49.235

RE: "Will I Dance..." (Anonymous, June 13)

June 13 2005, 2:03 PM 

Your question is better rephrased to say, "Should we ignore the teachings of the New Testament and fall back on the Old Testament to satisfy our personal desires for things that the New Testament does not authorize or show precedence?"

The Old Testament has been fulfilled in Christ, Who told us through the apostles that the Mosaic Law no longer justifies us (Gal. 5:4 KJV).

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
4.254.145.209

Re: RE: "Will I Dance..." (Anonymous, June 13)

June 13 2005, 6:35 PM 

This is a typical response from this group; dodge the question and twist the truth. The question only required a "yes" or a "no". I think I read that, somewhere...............?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.49.166

Dodging Questions

June 13 2005, 8:55 PM 

Earlier I posed this question: "Should we ignore the teachings of the New Testament and fall back on the Old Testament to satisfy our personal desires for things that the New Testament does not authorize or show precedence?"

This also required just a "yes" or "no." I see that "Anonymous" decided to dodge the question (and twist the truth to boot). Ah, most typical of change agents, most typical.

Time to move on, folks.

 
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John
(no login)
167.219.0.144

Re: “Will I dance for you, Jesus … I can only imagine”

June 13 2005, 9:06 AM 

Sorry. I just realized that I posted the wrong Psalm. It was supposed to be 136.

Psalm 136
1O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.

2O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

3O give thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever.

4To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

5To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever.

6To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.

7To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:

8The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:

9The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.

10To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever:

11And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever:

12With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever.

13To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever:

14And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever:

15But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.

16To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever.

17To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

18And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever:

19Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever:

20And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever:

21And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever:

22Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever.

23Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever:

24And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever.

25Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever.

26O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever.


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
207.69.50.145

"Will I Dance for You..." (John, June 13)

June 13 2005, 11:58 AM 

It matters little whether John holds up Psalm 118 or Psalm 136 as his justification for using repetitive phrases in Christian music, for both of these psalms (or any other Old Testament passages like them) are good examples of repetition.

Therefore, to draw on my earlier comments, using Old Testament psalms to justify endless repetitions in today's Christian "praise" music simply violates Gal. 5:4. If a Christian must resort to the Mosaic Law and the Old Testament to justify any practices connected with the Church, then Christ indeed has become of no effect.

My earlier premise still stands: the use of repetitive phrases in Christian music would be justified if John could produce New Testament Scriptures with comparable repetitions.

 
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2preach
(no login)
148.244.150.52

Comparison?

June 13 2005, 1:14 PM 

There is obvious repetition in this beautiful psalm but it is not the same as the 7/11 song.

In this psalm each line or thought builds upon the line or thought that it precedes.

Notice:

“…give thanks to the Lord.”

“…give thanks to God of gods.”

“…give thanks to Lord of lords.”


This psalm has some deep teachings in it, cf. ”…To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn…” or “…To him that made great lights…” or “The sun to rule by day:”

Find a 7/11 song that has all of this in it and I will lead the song myself!

God bless, 2preach

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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