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Re: Comparison?

June 17 2005, 10:32 PM 

Hey, Jimmy,

How ya doing??

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(Login heartsinger)

Can you not see

December 15 2006, 3:58 PM 

Do you not understand the message behind this song. This song was written as a praise to our Lord. How awesome is it that it's played on secular radio to minister to those who might not otherwise hear the word. Can you not imagine what Heaven will be like. Are you so quick to criticize that you can't even hear the words that are being said. Worship is from the heart.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: Can you not see

December 16 2006, 8:41 AM 

Why even sing a hymn if the words are so garbled that no one can understand them? It's no better than the mush coming out of the mouths of rock singers, the "lyrics" to whose songs are virtually unintelligible.

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Ken Sublett
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Too much CRACK, Zac?

December 16 2006, 1:21 PM 

Nimrod at the Towers of Babbling knew that music was more powerful than the hemp seed they smoked as "incense." Modern science knows that it is a most POWERFUL and ADDICTIVE drug producer. One of the SIGNS is that it makes males say "Awesome."

It is more fatal because you can re-write the DNA of the brain which is now believed to be transmitted to the next generation so they can say "Wow, Awesome!"

Another of the MARKS is that Jesus and Paul said that

Worship is IN the human spirit or heart.

And brain damage makes musicators SEE:

Worship is FROM the heart. Do you see the difference?

The sinful woman at the well could grasp that: she said "When Messias comes He will TELL US ALL THINGS." A musical drug addict says "We can tell JESUSall things: like "I want to hug and kiss you and dance with you and KNOW YOU PERSONALLY.

The temples on mountains were HOUSES and you could NEVER worship God in a HOUSE: that is why Jesus commanded and Paul fully defined how we SYNAGOGUE in an EKKLESIA or we let Messias tell US all things." Only IF we do that can we call it worship which means to Paul "giving heed to the Words of God."

Paul confirmed that the converted Jews now worshipped IN THE SPIRIT which is opposite to IN THE FLESH. Because, he said "outside there be DOGS and CONCISION." These were the singing and dancing and naked CYNICS whose songs were more howling (like praise sanging?). That is the ONLY reason you needed to be circumcised. DOGS are CATAMITES or homosexual prostitutes who served as PRIESTS in the pagan temples so they could MINISTE to all types. That is why Paul hopes the KNIFE SLIPS and you GO ALL THE WAY: sure, they did sex change operations on males: easy.

Now, worship is IN the PLACE of the SPIRIT or HEART and Paul said "sing AND make melody IN THE HEART." That is a PLACE and the result of SPEAK that which is written to make the "HEART STRINGS SING."

ATTITUDE is not the issue in Amos etc. The ISSUE is the FORM in which they tried to worship God by entertaining one another with wine, women and song INSIDE THE TEMPLE. That is why God warned that 'I WILL NOT PASS THIS WAY AGAIN" and the SONGS in the TEMPLE will be HOWLING which describes modern, perverted PRAISE SINGING to attract BOTH classes.

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(no login)


September 26 2007, 8:28 PM 

I just realized that you are accusing me or someone in my family of doing drugs... wow... I will continue to pray for you. You need Jesus.

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Ken Sublett
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Spirit of Christ WRITES THE SONGS

June 13 2005, 10:02 PM 

The Passover in which Jesus instituted the Lord's Supper because the Jew's expectation that John the Baptist would announce Messiah, the fruit of the vine would be UNFERMENTED and they would have sung Psalm 137 which speaks of HANGING UP OUR HARPS--another subject.

In time, the term Hallel came to mean the "Great Hallel," Psalm 136, which is used in the morning service on the Sabbath, festivals, and during the Passover seder. The "half-Hallel" (parts of Psalms 115 and 116 are omitted) is used on the last six days of PASSOVER and on the NEW MOON.

"Hallel, in Jewish ritual, selection from the Psalms, chanted as part of the liturgy during certain festivals. The more frequently used selection includes Psalms 113-118 and is known as the Egyptian Hallel, presumably because Psalm 114 begins, "When Israel went out of Egypt" It is sung in synagogues on the first two days of Passover, on Shabuoth, on Sukkot, on each morning of the eight days of Hanukkah, and at the close of the Seder.
    "The Hallel through the generations, on specific occasions: Pesachim 117a
    "Hallel requires a full stomach and a satisfied spirit: Taanis 25b-26a
    The READING is beloved to the people, and so they LISTEN closely: Megillah 21b

    "The Hallel as an Institution of the Prophets, to use to PRAY for salvation from danger: Pesachim 117a [2x] Saying the Hallel daily is blasphemous: Shabbos 118b
However, PAGAN singing was not RECITING or as Paul commanded SPEAKING:

"An artificial, effeminate music which should relax the soul, frittering the melody, and displacing the power and majesty of divine harmony by tricks of art, and giddy, thoughtless, heartless, souless versifying would be meet company." (Barnes, Albert, Amos, p. 303).

"Jingling, banging, and rattling accompanied heathen cults, and the frenzying shawms of a dozen ecstatic cries intoxicated the masses. Amid this euphoric farewell feast of a dying civilization, the voices of nonconformists were emerging from places of Jewish and early Christian worship; Philo of Alexandria had already emphasized the ethical qualities of music, spurning the 'effeminate' art of his Gentile surroundings.
    Similarly, early synagogue song intentionally foregoes artistic perfection, renounces the playing of instruments,
    and attaches itself entirely to the WORD--the TEXT of the Bible" (Encyclopaedia Judaica, 1971 ed., s.v. "Music")
WOW! That sounds like what JESUS exampled and PAUL commanded and the church PRACTICED for at least 350 years.

ALL instrumental Psalms and many others are not WORSHIP MUSIC. Rather, because they were composed by the WARRIOR KING and his people mostly, they were WARRIOR CHANTS. They intended to be boast songs and instill FEAR or PANIC in the enemy.

People have always known that EXCITING music creates the impulses of FIGHT, FLIGHT or sexuality.

When SPOKEN with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH as "that which is written" in Romans 15 as the only way to Glorify God, the purpose was to SYNAGOGUE or teach the History of God by using metrical poems--intended to be recited--so that we can COME LEARN OF ME where ME is Jesus Christ.

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Ken Sublett
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Psalm 136: the TRUE VERSION.

June 14 2005, 1:49 PM 

Paul commanded that we speak "with one mouth and one voice" and use THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN as a way to TEACH and also GLORIFY God. Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs are all TITLES of the BOOK of Psalms in the Greek version. In addition, Maschils were proverbs or dark sayings.

The Psalms are in 5 books to fit the five books of Moses roughly. Others are a poetic version of prose history. Most of the instrumental psalms were warrior chants to drive the enemy into panic.

If you will look at Psalm 136 which was sung at Passover, you will see that singing it or SPEAKING it in the assembly (synagogue) would TEACH the Old Testament history.

This was NOT as a form of ceremonial ritual but was for EDUCATION. you can sing about bashing out baby's heads IF you are teaching history. Not to be used to PRAISE in the sense of trying to WIN THE WORSHIP WAR over others. Please note that Psalm 136 is not a DANCING DITTY but a whole history of the Jews from a FAVORABLE standpoint. Other Psalms cover the same history--as did Peter and Stephen--but specificially show that the LOSS OF REDEMPTION was caused by MUSICAL IDOLATRY and not holding a Holy Convocation on the Sabbath to READ or REHEARSE whatever document they had or a Patriarch knew:

O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:1

O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:2

    We worship Jehovhah.
    There are many "elohim" but
    Jehovah is OUR Elohim
O give thanks to the Lord (Adown) of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:3

To him who alone doeth great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:4

To him that by wisdom made the heavens: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:5
    IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
    The same was in the beginning with God. John 1:2
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

    Proverbs 8 makes this WISDOM.
To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:6

To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:7

The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:8

The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:9

To him that smote Egypt in their firstborn: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:10

And brought out Israel from among them: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:11

With a strong hand, and with a stretched out arm: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:12

To him which divided the Red sea into parts: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:13

And made Israel to pass through the midst of it: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:14

But overthrew Pharaoh and his host in the Red sea: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:15

To him which led his people through the wilderness: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:16

To him which smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:17

And slew famous kings: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:18

Sihon king of the Amorites: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:19

And Og the king of Bashan: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:20

And gave their land for an heritage: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:21

Even an heritage unto Israel his servant: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:22

Who remembered us in our low estate: for his mercy endureth for ever: Psalm 136:23

And hath redeemed us from our enemies: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:24

Who giveth food to all flesh: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136:25

O give thanks unto the God of heaven: for his mercy endureth for ever. Psalm 136

Now, try singing or chanting this NEXT SUNDAY and let everyone RESPOND and you will be oky doky. Better yet, rather than a feel good SOP from a Sophist, let someone fully explain the HISTORY and obey the COMMANDMENT to the elders to "teach that which has been taught."

I will look at some other Psalms to show why YOU should be teaching THEM rather than the insane babbling of erotic songs written by some guy who couldn't pass Bible 101aaa, card class, slow ones in the slow group.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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New Book About Christian Music

June 18 2005, 10:36 AM 

According to the Change Movement and proponents of contemporary Christian music (CCM), any kind of music, including the raucous rap, rock, and pop, is acceptable in worship, as long as there are "Christian" lyrics. The purpose is to play that music which most appeals to the people to work them up and turn them on. That philosophy comes directly from the "Purpose Driven" publications of Rick Warren, who says that there is no such thing as "Christian" music, only "Christian" lyrics. In other words, music has no bearing on Christianity or moral behavior, for music is "amoral."

Dashing such ludicrous philosophy to bits is Kimberly Smith, who has just published a new book that dispels the myth that music is amoral. It is appropriately titled "Music and Morals: Dispelling the Myth That Music Is Amoral" (WinePress Publishing, 2005).

"Music and Morals" is Smith's third title that focuses on biblical principles in Christian music. Her other two titles are "Oh, Be Careful Little Ears" and "Let Those Who Have Ears to Hear."

Those interested in the new book may go to the "Biblical Principles in Music" web site at:

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Re: Psalms 136: the TRUE VERSION

November 1 2008, 11:22 PM 

(Now, try singing or chanting this NEXT SUNDAY and let everyone RESPOND and you will be oky doky. Better yet, rather than a feel good SOP from a Sophist, let someone fully explain the HISTORY and obey the COMMANDMENT to the elders to "teach that which has been taught.")

I would love to see more of any of the hymns and spiritual songs, old or new. but it would be chaos as we don't even use the same "versions" or translationsto study or read from. Does any one even do public Bible reading any more?


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Donnie Cruz
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The Musical Worship Leader’s Thrill—Live Musical Group Exercise

June 18 2005, 10:24 AM 

It’s unquestionably the Madison’s “Worship Leader’s” thrill and pleasure to bring his elite musicians to a performance high with excessively repetitious lines from a number of 7/11 musical “praise” pieces. [Note: We have already defined what 7/11 music means. Also, while his “Praise Team” members may not use a piano, trumpets or drums, each has his/her individual microphone and is very capable of also making those unintelligible howling/barking/whistling noises that simulate musical instrumentation anyway, not excluding rhythmic handclapping.]

Their multi-tasking capabilities are admirable? No, I wouldn’t bother to sit in the balcony where I could watch Keith’s musicians perform. But picture this during the observance of the Lord’s Supper (even if not all of these tasks occur at the same time)—holding a microphone … holding [?] and reading the sheet music and singing … partaking of the bread … humming … doing the ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh … [clapping is one of those activities but is not done here] … partaking of the cup … more humming or making those unintelligible sounds … being in sync with the projected words on the screen vs. the sheet music … etc., etc. Oh, plus … worshipping or really commemorating the suffering and death of the Savior … while busily performing various tasks!

Oops … yes, an example of another 7/11 musical piece that occupies 2 full pages in Keith’s notebook of some 200+ “Songs of Worship.” On the front cover at the bottom, it says: “A supplemental song booklet compiled by the Worship Ministry of the Madison Church of Christ.” Believe me, it is THE MUSIC BOOK—not “a supplemental song booklet”—that the “contemporary worship” group uses. It is this group’s MAIN “praise” songbook. The regular hymnbook of 900 songs, as a matter of fact, is HARDLY supplemental. Why? Hymns are on the verge of extinction—this would make a good topic of discussion … by the way.

I’ll append the musical notes in order to give you an idea of why I think this piece is a musical exercise to perfection. Time sig. is 4/4 and key of b-flat … the repeated lines are mostly eighth notes.

    TITLE: “Days of Elijah”

    [v.1] These are the days of Elijah … … …
    [v.1] These are the days of Your servant Moses … … …

    [v.2] These are the days of Ezekiel … … …
    [v.2] These are the days of Your servant David … … …

    [17 Signo] Behold He comes, riding on the clouds,
    [S] shining like the sun at the trumpet call.
    [S] So lift your voice, it’s the year of Jubilee
    [S] and out of Zion’s hill salvation comes. And [to v.2] …
    [S] comes. [2 D.S.] comes [3].

    There’s no God like Jehovah. [d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [g-g-g-g-g-g-g-g]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [f-f-f-f-f-f-f-f]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [high d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d]
    There’s no God like Jehovah. [high e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e]
    There’s no God like Jehovah! [high d-d-d-d-d-d-d-dc] [D.S.] comes.

    Who was and Who is and Who is to come!
    Who was and Who is and Who is to come.


Did you keep up with the words and the number of repetitions and the way the music might sound to you?

Well … well … well! [I repeated “well” only three times … or four times?]


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Please tell me this is a joke.

June 27 2005, 12:36 AM 

This entire thread is ridiculous.


There is a great discussion if it's instrumental vs. non-instrumental. Whether words are repeated is a non-issue. What's the magic number that's O.K. If the phrase repeat 3 times is that O.K., but 4 is wrong? We can't sing Psalms because they're from the O.T.? If you actually believe that, you missed the boat somewhere. We are not COMMANDED to sing from the songs, but it is nonsensical to think that it is somehow prohibited.

By the way, it might pay to look at actual scriptural issues with the songs. "Days of Elijah" talks about David rebuilding the temple. David didn't rebuild the temple; Solomon did. (Is it O.K. to say that; it's from the OT.) That thought is an error scripturally. Singing "there's no God like Jehovah" 10 or even 100 times is not.

"7/11 songs" is a trivial, condescending term. Speak the truth in love, brothers.

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Re: Please tell me this is a joke.

June 27 2005, 10:55 AM 

Note to editor -

That last post should have read, "We are not COMMANDED to sing from the Psalms" not songs. Could you please fix that?


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Re: Please tell me this is a joke.

June 27 2005, 6:12 PM 

The song, "Days Of Elijah" does have a line about David rebuilding...but it does not refer to the literal temple that Solomon rebuilt. The line is "and these are the days of your servant David, rebuilding a temple of praise." It is a clear reference to the talent David had as a man after God's own heart with the praise that he offered through the Psalms...which by the way we are commanded to sing no matter if they are repititous or not.

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Ken Sublett
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June 27 2005, 9:43 PM 

No, Bill, that is where we get into serious TROUBLE. Paul used the word SPEAK. You know, SPEAK as in SPEAK and not SANG.

The word PSALMOS is a song or rather, like the Psalms, a POEM. The first INSTRUMENT of choice is the HUMAN VOICE. "Melody as TUNEFULNESS belongs to the 19th century" says the Britannica. And we know that about the year 350 the first SINGING as an act of worship was introduced and then to sing the composer's Assyrian songs.

Paul used the word PSALLO and ODE in the same message: as you cannot WALK and RUN at the same time, you cannot SING and SPEAK at the same time otherwise Paul would NOT have used defining words.

The word ODE further defines PSALMOS as "in the style of Hebrew Cantillation." Now, to cantillate is to SPEAK and old Paul knew what he was saying after all. Cantillation was and is SPEAKING the Psalms using a stylistic form of speaking. This put EMPHASIS on words in order to understand WORDS and never to MAKE MUSIC.

Furthermore, in Romans 15 to solve the SOWING of discord as at Madison etal, Paul commanded that we use ONE MIND and ONE VOICE and speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN as the ONLY way to glorify God. Now, I just don't know how THAT can be as OBSCURED as the word SPEAK always POPS up as SANG or MAKE MUSIC. That fulfills prophecy!

In Ephesians and Colossians he commands the INSPIRED TEXT which is "that which is written." These are ALL forms of the BOOK of Psalms.

That is why there are TWO places to be noted:

First, we SPEAK one to another. That is the same word as PREACH. That is external.

Next, both ODEING and MELODY are internalized because secular SINGING to create excitement was the PLEASURING Paul outlawed in Romans 15. Melody is a WARFARE word and NEVER a musical word. ALL of the literature which uses (but does not define) Psallo and which speak of PLUCKING a literal instrument ALL relate to an older man PLUCKING his harp strings to GROOM a young boy for the UNIVERSAL religionism of pederasty.

Plucking of HEART STRINGS is well documented in the Greek literature.

This is why Paul is so CERTAIN to define SPEAKING. The Psalms were not WORSHIP songs for congregational ASSEMBLY. The people's "congregation" was excluded from the Temple area during animal sacrifices. The Holy Convocations held on both the First day and later always on the sevent day was not for WORSHIP but for REST. You know REST as in REST that thingy Jesus DIED to give us? Holy Convocation defines REHEARSING or READING whatever TEXT they had avalilable or was in the MEMORY BANK of priests or elders who were TRAINED in the oral tradition which PAUL still commanded.

The BOOK of Psalms is organized in 5 books as poetic versions of the PROSE history of the Israelites. Therefore, Paul was not remotely speaking about SANGING as worship but about TEACHING the history of God's people.

Those who assembled or gathered are defined by the Greek word SYNAGOGUE in several forms. The group or PLACE (church house) was the ekklesia. Neither the Greek nor Jewish synagogue had ANY PRAISE SERVICE because it was OUTLAWED in the wilderness and because sanity allows not silly, singy-clappy boy's PLUCKING the people when JESUS gathers with us as our ONLY Teacher through His Word.

If you will look at the Lord, Lord saying this is the form of MUSICAL PROPHESYING claiming to have power over God but really over DEMONS. God does not even know THEIR NAME. This was the same musical prophesying Paul defined in 1 Cor 11:5 and which if done in the assembly would be seen as MADNESS.

There is NO MUSICAL CONCEPT of the worship of a SPIRIT God nowhere in any of the Bible. This was for slaughtering TYPES of Jesus Christ, of prostitutes or Sodomites or SATAN or LUCIFER or ZOE who was the "singing and harp-playing prostitue." The Spirit of Christ wisely calls it NOISE.

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Re: Please tell me this is a joke.

June 27 2005, 11:39 PM 

I guess it depends on where you learned it.

The version I've heard says "your temple of praise".

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James Kisner
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Re: Please tell me this is a joke.

June 28 2005, 3:03 AM 

I've got a great idea! Why don't we take a look at some of the "scriptural" songs that churches of Christ have sung for years, since they obviously must not be "repetitive" as defined by writers in this discussion.

How about Blessed Be The Name of the Lord

Three stanzas, half of each stanza being "blessed be the name of the Lord.
Refrain sung after each stanza: "blessed be the name, blessed be the name, blessed be the name of the Lord," then repeated. The phrase "blessed be the Name" is repeated at least ten times.

Then there's the old favorite: No Not One - depending on the number of stanzas included in the hymnal, the phrase "no not one" could easily be repeated up to 26 times (a whole lot more than "there is no God like Jehovah" in Days of Elijah.)

Or consider: Nothing But The Blood of Jesus - the phrase from which the song derives its title is repeated at least six times.

Look through a hymnal sometime. Look at songs like God Will Take Care of You, Nearer My God To Thee, Near To The Heart of God, Standing on The Promises of God, God Be With You Til We Meet Again, etc.

My point: there is no point to a discussion on repitition of words in a song unless we want to cull songs from both the contemporary and classical genres that have phrases repeated. If the standard is applied to one it must be applied to the other, which would eliminate many of the songs the body of Christ has sung for many years. Is that what you guys want?

Please, Ken, no lectures on the word "sing" or any thing else. I have read your opinions and I don't think there's need here for restating them.


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Ken Sublett
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No Joke: just jerks

June 28 2005, 10:18 AM 

    Please, Ken, no lectures on the word "sing" or any thing else. I have read your opinions and I don't think there's need here for restating them.
Too bad, too sad, Jimmy boy or whatever: You are arguing about STYLE to INFILTRATE and DIVERT or be SEED PICKERS. I quote BIBLE and LITERATE definitions of WORDS.

You could just as easily be playing the SHELL GAME of arguing about the STYLE of DIRTY DANCING and PEDDLING it to fools who can be fooled (according to Paul) as a HUGE theological debate over BELLY dancing WITH clothes or RUMP RUMBLING without clothes.

A CHURCH OF CHRIST, with or without repeats, has used songs like Psalms which TEACH some Biblical fact and then RESPOND. It does not do LORD, LORD SAYING giving the money of the DESTITUTE to what the Bible and ALL of history about MUSIC as worship calls the PROSTITUTE.

That is the PLEASURING Paul said Jesus DID NOT DO and what he OUTLAWED for the group assembly which is SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE and not a VENUE for professinal TRAFFICKERS to display and sell their WARES.

What Jimmy is saying to defend that which CANNOT be defended is that HE does not CARE what Jesus died to found, what Paul defined to EXCLUDE sexual excitement and what church history--even when instruments were added--repudiated until the SECTARIANS who boasted that they had taken over Movies, Music and Media bragged that they would take over CHURCH--let the MUSICATORS into the holy place where in even the VILEST PAGAN TEMPLES they would be executed by their "brethren."

The JEZEBEL prophets saw "Homosexuality as binding flesh and spirit together." However, if a SINGER or guitarIST (PARASITE) ventured into the holy places he would be executed. The Levitical Warrior Musicians could not enter into the TYPE of the body or church of CHRIST even to clean out the GARBAGE.

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Donnie Cruz
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“A congregation employing a fulltime $$$ ‘WORSHIP LEADER’” is the joke.

June 28 2005, 4:24 AM 

The real joke is praying:

    “Lord, give us [this day our daily b-r-r … no!!! … we mean …] our Sunday ‘Worship Leader’ and his/her minstrels [you know, Lord, that thingy called church choir or Praise Team] to rehearse for us our worship to excellence. And lead us into temptation to ‘make music’ by singing those silly singy-clappy “praise” music 85% of the time because we want to FEEL ‘real’ good about ourselves. Also, for the remaining 15% (or less) of the time, lead us into temptation to sing those ‘psalms, hymns and spiritual songs’ bound for extinction. Please guide our ‘Worship Leader’ so that out of the very, very few hymns we sing … that he/she would select the unfamiliar, complex hymn so that we can enjoy the joyful noise of the Praise Team that performs to us and for us such unfamiliar, complex hymn. Please, Lord, watch and care for our Worship Leader as s/he wags his/her hands vigorously with all antics performed … so that all that charismatic excitement would not cause our Worship Leader to fall off the stage. There’s so much more we would like to say, but thank you for giving us the Worship Leader who mediates between You and the congregation and who leads us into Your holy presence with those rah-rah-rah music and handclapping. Amen.”


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Re: “A congregation employing a fulltime $$$ ‘WORSHIP LEADER’” is the joke.

June 28 2005, 10:24 AM 


"God Moves in a Mysterious" Way was an "unfamiliar, complex hymn" until I learned it. I still have trouble following my part in "A Mighty Fortress" even though I've sung it at least a hundred times. I wouldn't begin to suggest that singing either of those in worship is a bad idea.

ALL of these songs were new at one time.

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Re: “A congregation employing a fulltime $$$ ‘WORSHIP LEADER’” is the joke.

June 29 2005, 12:07 AM 

Ya'll been reading Kenny too much. HEHEHEHE!

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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