Richland Hills Church of Christ in Texas—its Praise Team, the Choir, and the use of instrumental music; its reconciliation [ecumenical] efforts with the Christian Churches…. When will its leaders drop the name “of Christ” so as to not confuse the brotherhood any longer?

Oak Hills Church in Texas—formerly … “of Christ” has become a Community Church at no fault of its members. “Pastor” Max Lucado, with the approval of his elders in collaboration, dropped the name “of Christ” a couple of years ago. Its Praise Team, the Choir, and the use of instrumental music, once experimented in a small assembly, is no longer an experiment—all its assemblies except one now use it.

Woodmont Hills Family of God in Tennessee is ashamed of the name “of Christ.” And Rubel Shelly? Its website is “woodmont.org” and you will see Rubel Shelly, John York and John Mark Hicks all listed under “Staff”—wonder why?

Those are some of “The Hills.” An irony…? Is it because of Psalms 98:8—“Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together”? Is it because of Psalms 121:1—“I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help”? Is it because of Isaiah 2:2—“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it”?

Do the prominent change agents operating in the brotherhood have it all figured out? What … only if Madison had its own prominent change agent such as Shelly or Lucado or Atchley? Where would Madison be today in this regard? [By the way, Madison advertises “The Family at Madison Church of Christ.” Sounds redundant to me, doesn’t it to you?]

Oh, I almost forgot about the creeks. “The Otter Creek—A Family of Faith,” I sense, is imitating the Woodmont Hills Family of God. Well, FYI, visit:

http://www.ottercreek.org/

And to the Madison member or to someone else who has been following the events at Madison, because of Otter Creek’s: (a) involvement in a number of “multi-faith functions”; (b) in the way it conducts its “worship”; (c) word that a number of Madison contemporary worshippers have ended up there at Otter Creek; and (d) the article you’re about to read—which is more advanced in advancing the cause of Community Church-ism? Is it Madison or is it Otter Creek?

Now … the following article on “the coming together…”:
______________________________________

Source: Tennessean.com [http://www.thetennessean.com]

Monday, 11/21/05

Worshippers show gratitude for diversity

Separate churches raise same songs of thanksgiving in Ryman service

By AILENE TORRES
Staff Writer

A joyful noise rose through the Ryman Auditorium last night, as two distinctively different choirs melded into one.

In a pre-Thanksgiving service designed to bring congregations from different denominations, cultures and backgrounds together, a Baptist minister shared the microphone with a Nazarene minister, and a Church of Christ choir and a Baptist choir sang together.

And worshippers embraced the mixed service and congregation.

"A Christian is a Christian, it doesn't matter if you are black or white," said Pleasant Green Missionary Baptist Church member Dominique Haywood, 37. "Some people are going to be excluded from heaven. It won't matter if you are black or white."

The event, "Thankful We Stand," was a collaboration between The Operation Andrew Group, a nondenominational outreach association that partners with churches from varying denominations, and the YMCA of Middle Tennessee. Both organizations want to erode racial barriers and foster greater diversity among congregations, organizers said.

"We tend to live in our comfort areas — black, white, Hispanic," said OAG president Charles E. McGowan. "We can walk away from this feeling how big God's church is and give expression to our unity."

The diversity was apparent throughout the service as young and old, black, white, Hispanic and Asian and even the hearing-impaired all praised God together.

As the two choirs from Otter Creek Church of Christ on Granny White Pike and Temple Baptist Church of King's Lane sang together, worshippers sang along or raised their hands to the heavens.

Jeanie Weems, 29, of Bellevue and a member of Otter Creek Church of Christ, said the interdenominational experience was the way things should be.

"It will help us grow in the future. It is a blessing to be around people who do things differently from the way we have done them," she said.

OAG was founded five years agoand has since teamed up with the YMCA of Middle Tennessee to promote interdenominational diversity and National Prayer Day.

Organizers believe the event's 800-plus attendance showed an interest in the community for diverse worship services. They said they plan to organize a similar service next year.

Phil Newman, vice president of communications for the YMCA of Middle Tennessee said the religious program married well with what the Christian organization tries to exemplify.

The Rev. Frank Lewis, of First Baptist Church of Nashville downtown, said the fellowship of worship should automatically bring believers together.

"God is using the churches to spread his love. Don't focus on what divides us," Lewis said. "Focus on the things that unite us."

________________________________________

Have you noticed that out of a huge population ONLY NOAH was insane?

I just love how God always MARKS things so we don't have to be fools and support the lazy foolers (in Paul's words). You know that ZOE is Lucifer and fits the various S.U.N. Gods.

All of the foolers in Nashville have jumped into CONFESSING that they worship the MOUNTAIN GODS. The HORNS of the BEAST in Revelation are MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS. They are the Carnal Weapons they use to MOUNT up to their own HILL

kero-batês A. horn-footed, hoofed, kerobatas Pan, he that goes with horns, i.e. the horned god;he that walks the mountain-peaks (cf. keras v.6).

What the PANS don't grasp is that the Psalmist did not make a STATEMENT OF FACT. Rather, perhaps as Jesus suggested with Parables, to fool the PROFESSIONAL fools, it is a QUESTION silly preacher-creatures!

I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. Psa 121:1KJV

NO!

My help cometh from the Lord, which MADE heaven and earth. Psa 121:2

Sounds pretty catch to you? Sure. Everyone knows that neither God nor the enemy can get at you if you build a mountain like the towers of Babylon. The Assyrians might get you with their chariots on the plains but trust in the hills to save you.

Sounds like Satan giving false security in wine, women and song. What if we just changed it from a declaration of faith into a serious question by those with eyes. Look at it this way:

A Song of Ascents. I will lift up my eyes to the hills From whence comes my help? Psa 121:1NKJV

Now, this fits the context because the Psalmists said, NO. My help does not come from created things but from the Creator: the Lord.

My help cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth. Psa 121:2

Many paganistic Jews believed that God was God of the mountain or hills but not of the plains simply because the people felt more protected by the physical hills. The Living Bible reads:

Shall I look to the mountain gods for help? Psa 121:1LIV

No! My help is from Jehovah who made the mountains! And the heavens too! Psa 121:2LIV

And we have other proof of the utter superstition that God is restricted in where He can work. For instance,

And the servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their gods are GODS of the HILLS; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they. 1K.20:23


HILLS are Har (g2022) har; a short. form of 2042; a mountain or range of hills (sometimes used fig.): - hill (country), mount (-ain), * promotion.

MEANING: HARmageddon


And there came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the Lord,


Because the Syrians have said, The Lord is God of the HILLS, but he is not God of the valleys,

therefore will I deliver all this GREAT MULTITUDE into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the Lord. 1 Kings 20:28

The book of Revelation makes it clear that the MUSES or LOCUSTS or Musical Performers of Apollyon will not HURT those marked with the Word. However, they will chase them away from the MULTITUDES to whom Jesus never speaks except in parables (songs?). However, the LOCUSTS sting the LOST and hold them captive and punish them until Christ has CALLED OUT all of the faithful OUTSIDE THE CAMP or POLIS or MULTITUDE. YES, everyone always knew that music punishes but LUCIFER says that you are feeling SPIRITUAL.

Paul said that the converted Jews NOW worshipped IN THE SPIRIT specifically because OUTSIDE are the DOGS or musical Catamites to which PSALLO points 100% of the time.

Rev 6:14 And the heaven [the gospel, Christianity] departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every MOUNTAIN and island were moved out of their places.

Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the GREAT men, and the RICH men, and the CHIEF captains, and the MIGHTY men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

Rev 6:16 And said to the MOUNTAINS and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The word MOUNTAIN is conneced to the the same LIFTING UP or PLEASURING Paul outlaws for the SYNAGOGUE in Romans 15. Therefore, rather than calling for literal MOUNTAINS to fall on them they are MERGING in huge clusters or MULTITUDES and the word WRATH is ORGE: the musical rituals were the ORGIA.

Heb.12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

The ten northern tribes of Israel looked to the hills in Mount Gerezim and Carmel throughout their existence. The Jews in Jerusalem looked to the hills in Mount Zion which was an adopted Jebusite High Place.

Even the sinful woman at the well understand that the role of Messiah was: "He will tell us all things." Jesus said NO! You cannot worship in houses built by human hands and ESPECIALLY in arenas where they make a SPECTACLE (theatron) our of God and His Word. You MUST worship God in the new PLACE of the human SPIRIT. AND you will be found bearing his reproaches and NOT involved in PLEASURING one another.

Rev. Frank Lewis: "God is using the churches to spread his love. Don't focus on what divides us...Focus on the things that unite us."

Dr. Crump: Lewis's statement implies that God is calling all churches of different faiths and beliefs to come together in "love," yet God isn't too concerned about the accuracy of the Gospel preached from one denomination to the next or whether each different denomination strictly adheres to His New Testament. Notice that Lewis does NOT say, "Don't focus on trying to avoid, modify, or delete the Scriptures...Focus on trying to live according to the commands of Christ." I infer from Lewis that what matters is consensus (unity) of opinion regarding the user-friendly beliefs that everyone can swallow ("things that unite us"), whereas the allegedly "disputable" commands of the New Testament (those which some, but not all, denominations follow--"what divides us") are ignored to maintain this unity.

That is what is meant by "unity in diversity," and it is just another manifestation of the Change Movement.

Mr. Donnie writes: Richland Hills Church of Christ in Texas—its Praise Team, the Choir, and the use of instrumental music; its reconciliation [ecumenical] efforts with the Christian Churches…. When will its leaders drop the name “of Christ” so as to not confuse the brotherhood any longer?

Rue Li chang writes: It may be true that RHCC still has Church of Christ on it's building but it is planting a new church that is set to open in February 2006 that will not have Church of Christ name! The new church will be called Bridgeway Church.

You can read of this bad thing on the RHCC web page at:

http://www.rhchurch.org/rhccorganization/rhccorganization.html

Look down the index at the left of the page and find “Bridgeway Church – church plant." Click on it and it will take you to new church web site. When you get to Bridgeway Church's web site click on "resources" and it tell you that Richland Hills Church is the Mother Church.

In Christ,

Little change

You remember that it was preacher-creature from Madison who met with and issued the APOLOGY for bleeding when the christian churches shot and stole the "church houses of widows."

They have always mouthed the WE IS GOOD YOU IS BAD mantra while they were picking your pocket. The "unity movements" have always been a few dumb dupes and FELLOW TRAVELERS from the non instrumental churches meeting in CONSPIRACY with those singing "Love Lifted Your Church House, dummy."

Therefore, the AROMA of unity has always been a Satanic ploy where the thieves have INSIDE MEN (?).

The preacher-creature at RH has always claimed to be more sympathetic with the "christian churches." Minimal ethics of a junk yard dog would leave and find another widow's bones to craunch. If you will notice the DAUGHTER of the MOTHER OF ? has three STAFF INFECTORS and of course the MOTHER will do the leading.

Their literature link is to STANDARD PUBLISHING which has from the beginning the prime mover trying to force churches of Christ to join the INSTITUTION with even children signing up as "life memebers." Using FEMALE carpet baggers they infiltrated but only STOLE a church or two by going to the court and LYING. They said that IF they used instruments FOR worship then that would be a SIN. Since they were using instruments as AIDS they added a lie to a sin and made it the GOSPEL. Those who could not do the math--including the judge--were just SECTARIAN, LEGALISTIC, PATTERNISTS AND RED NECKED RACISTS.

The MOVEMENT is to build 5500 new churches which will LIE by removing the name CHRIST but they will be CHRISTIAN CHURCHES. They LIFTED the combo name Christian Church Churches of Christ to IMPLY that those who had priority as Churches of Christ were part of their system.

http://www.piney.com/Stone.Campbell.Movement.html

So the Simple Simons who THINK that they are expanding churches of Christ cannot grasp that they are in the charge of Paul "fools who love to be fooled."

IF they were minimally honest they would not just DELETE the name of CHRIST but they would fly their real pirate's flag CHRISTIAN CHURCH. When they remove the name CHRIST it means that it is a Christian Church who LULLED you to sleep with all of the "love and tolerance" stuff.

I believe that it was Hitler who said that "you have to preach tolerance until you get the power."

and a plant church that reaches out to the folks who dont go to church is bad because>>>>>??????

We'll sing contemporary Christian music and once in a while, throw in an old hymn. We'll share in communion every Sunday. Messages will zero in on connecting the Bible to everyday life issues. We'll talk about marriage and parenting, financial struggles, and strengthening relationships. You'll learn about finding meaning in your work and your weekends.

BridgeWay will use drama, music videos, and STORIES of faith to help us get HARD-wired to God.

This directly violates the example of Jesus, the direct commands of Paul and the practice of the church for hundreds of years. Paul OUTLAWED private interpretation which means FURTHER EXPOUNDING. And the Rabbi outlawed "allegorizing" or "sermonizing" other than that which Paul commanded Timothy.

1Ti.4:13 Till I come, give attendance to [public] reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. .

The CORE of BridgeWay proves that it is NOT remotely connected to the Biblical or Historical church of Christ. Jesus founded an ekklesia or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. No human should be arrogant to think that they can use NARRATIVE THEOLOGY to get you HARD-wired to God. What blasphemy.

The CHURCH GROWTH CULT has run its course. The NEW "Soothsayer" magical word is MISSIONAL. Everyone has decided that their FREE RIDE on the cult of entertainment in masses has run its course and they have been OUTED and they have invented MISSIONAL. You THINK they mean MISSIONARY but they mean planting NEW CHURCHES by mostly bleeding off members to bring into a CULT ORGANIZATION. Rubel Shelly promoted the Located Missionary and he is now training MINISTERS in the new scheme.

One of the PROMOTERS of the new CRAFT supplies one of the texts for Shelly's Rochester new WINESKIN which they hope will not burst this time. You can see that the MISSIONAL means CULT and if you have three STAFF INFECTORS from the beginning they are ready for you. You will notice that MISSIONAL is close enough to MISSIONARY to fool the fools. Many of the other CODE WORDS send a signal if you understand their quest to create community churches which means COMMUNES.

http://www.piney.com/Geni.Adepts.html

McNeese sermonizes the NEW WINESKIN which points to sorcery (singing or speaking as enchanting) and prostitutes.

We have noted that the MUSES in Revelation were the Musical Worship Team of Apollyon or the Devil personified by false preachers. All rhetorical speakers, sOPHISts (serpents), singers and musicians performed ENCHANTMENT or SORCERY.

Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

McNeese begins with the WINESKIN gospel. And he assumes that Jesus spoke parables to make things simpler. However, Jesus spoke in parables to the FALSE CLERGY in order to HIDE the Word FROM them to make them into buffoons or a laughingstock.

The NEW winskin is purified and used SPECIFICIALLY to keep the wine (juice) from fermenting and destroying both the content an container. The WINE was a food product. If it SWELLED the billy goat hide to ACCOMODATE itself to an EXPANDING KINGDOM then the intention was to GET DRUNK.

Getting Drunk on Wine was specificially the MARK of the clergy who PIPED hoping that Jesus would sing and dance and quit casting out the minstrels LIKE DUNG.

In 1 Cor 13 Paul connects the LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS to warfare or sorcery. Therefore, the OLD WINE in the OLD WINESKIN which dominated Jerusalem and the CLERGY was the Zeus-Dionysus Abomination of Desolation which brought singers, musicians and perverts right into the holy precincts. No product of FERMENT was permitted into the Holy Place as a type of the church of Christ. Any singer or musician who entered into even the CARNAL type of the church would be instantly executed.

We see the meaning of the OLD WINSKIN in the case of Saul where MUSIC from David's harp drove him into and out of charismatic prophesying which was insanity. The familiar spirit of the Witch of Endor was EMPTY WINESKIN. ALL pagans believed that the EMPTY sounds which came out of empty heads or wineskins was INSPIRED.

Owb (h178) obe; from the same as 1 (appar. through the idea of prattling a father's name); prop. a mumble, i. e. a water-skin (from its hollow sound); hence a necromancer (ventriloquist, as from a jar): - bottle, familiar spirit.

In Amos and Isaiah the Marzeah feast was defined where MUSIC drove them into holding a festival WITH and FOR dead spirits. Therefor, making SOUNDS and claiming that they are SPIRITUAL is always witchcraft:

Is.8:19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Is.19:3 And the spirit of Egypt shall fail in the midst thereof; and I will destroy the counsel thereof: and they shall seek to the idols, and to the charmers, and to them that have familiar spirits, and to the wizards.

Is.29:4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.

Why would you travel "from sea to sea" or wander "to and fro" upon the earth looking for a wineskin fix when you have the kingdom and the Water of the Word free of charge? Perhaps you are on the move to get your wineskin or bottle filled with new wine:

Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine (effervesce): and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle (wineskins) shall be filled with wine? Je 13:12

The "bottles" are wineskins and you know what you get out of wineskins. Did you notice the connection between new wineskins rituals and musical worship? The bottle is:

Nebel (h5035) neh'-bel; a skin-bag for liquids (from collapsing when empty); hence a vase (as similar in shape when full); also a lyre (as having a body of like form): - bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol (almost identical to h178 or the familiar spirit and the booming gong of 1Cor 13)

As with all musical terms in the Bible, the wineskins could cause people to exhilarate or enthuse to find the lost god is from:

Nabal (h5034) naw-bale'; a prim. root; to wilt; gen. to fall away, fail, faint; fig. to be foolish or morally wicked; causat. to despise, disgrace: - disgrace, dishonour, lightly esteem, fade (away, - ing), fall (down, -ling, off), do foolishly, come to nought, * surely, make vile, wither.

That's what happens when you try to take God's "water" out of the ceremonially pure earthen vessels into which He put it. The result is that your wineskin just collapses because it is empty. Why else all of the anxiety trying to find the lost kingdom?

Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon Davids throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness. Je 13:13

And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. Je 13:14

INTOXICANTS come out of wineskins which EXPAND like a rubber water bottle:

Re.14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Re.18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

The SINGERS were always known as the HAREM OF THE GOD: holy prostitutes. False clergy are also prostitutes.

2 Cor 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Corrupt means to SELL the free water of the word:

Kapeleuo (g2585) kap-ale-yoo'-o; from kapelos , (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by impl.) to adulterate (fig.): - corrupt

kapêl-euô , A. to be a retail-dealer, drive a petty trade... kapêleu' drive a trade, c
sell learning by retail, hawk it about... Chariti tên amoibên Epicur, traffic in grants of citizenship [church memberships?] prostitutes, playing tricks with life,

If these people were not TRAFFICKERS they would be out preaching the WORD AS IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT to those who have not heard it. They would not put together

Long time, no read/post/care.

Just out of curiosity, why does a church such as Brentwood Hills Church of Christ get left out of this mix? Is it because it still clings to the "old paths" and is not run by "change agents"? I think it's only fair that if you're including churches that include the name "Hills", you should be fair and not leave some out just because you have a bias.

Jeremy,

You’ve been missed!

So, long time … no care? I believe that members of the body of Christ should really care, though, especially when the leadership of a congregation succumbs to Rick Warren’s culture-driven church growth scheme and subsequently when the congregation is the ultimate victim of a hostile takeover.

Although I wonder that you mentioned only Brentwood Hills among others, you identified two great contrasting points: (1) clinging to the old paths, on one hand, and (2) being influenced by and following the new paths of the change agents, on the other.

We know about the prominent change agents operating in the aforementioned “Hills” churches: Rick Atchley, Max Lucado and Rubel Shelly. Agree?

Western Hills in Nashville may be an exception—it’s small but it has followed the new path of the Change Movement. This is where Madison’s Phil Barnes came from. And prior to that, Phil Barnes was with the Hermitage Church of Christ—currently struggling because of the changes taking place. The 2002 census showing an average attendance of 816, it has been 530 … 430 … 410 … 362 in attendance in the last few weeks.

Tim Woodroof is the change agent at the Otter Creek Family of Faith.

Is there something you know about Brentwood Hills that you would like to share with us? I have briefly looked at this congregation’s website. It does not have a “Worship Ministry”; it does not have a “Musical Worship Leader.” It’s about the size of the post-upheaval Madison, but there doesn’t seem to be any indication of its leaning towards the Warren Doctrine. And if so, that’s quite surprising because it is the larger metro congregations that are usually the victims of intrusion and infection.

There are several other “Hills” churches that may or may not have been infected with this church “transformation” disease … I am not certain:

Westover Hills Church of Christ, Austin, TX (1000 members); Southern Hills Church of Christ, Abilene, TX (1300 attendance). Well, I didn’t realize the hills were that numerous—Sunny Hills, Orchard Hills, Whispering Hills, Cherokee Hills, Hunter Hills, Embry Hills, Douglass Hills, Auburn Hills, Bush Hills, Sylvan Hills, Orchard Hills, North Hills, Scenic Hills, Harpeth Hills, Cascade Hills, Forest Hill, Chapel Hills, Farmington Hills, Eastern Hills, Sunny Hills, Rolling Hills, Alpine Hills, Black Hills, Highland Hills, Antelope Hills, Rochester Hills, Beverly Hills … … … Churches of Christ.

I would assume that most of these congregations are still clinging to the “old paths,” until we hear that they’re experiencing problems with culture-driven, ecumenically-centered changes to improve upon God’s will for the church.

Donnie

Donnie, you may have a topographical map! I am not sure whether Brentwood Hills is UP hill from Woodmont Hills or DOWN hill. Whatever the case, when Woodmont got Shellyited to SAVE MORE SOULS with music, so many FLOODED out that Brentwood Hills had to BUILD a bigger church. So, you don't have to musicate to duplicate.

John York got a message from God to go to Beaverton, Oregon. That didn't last too long and John winded up at Otter Creek. Someone suggested that God told him to go to Otter Creek and he got his ANIMALS mixed up. So, Johnny bundled with Rubel and looks like he might be the permanent preacher-creature. I think Woodmont is pretty safe because I haven't read Johnny writing anything coherent or even close enough to the Bible to be dangerous. Who's to say what will happen when he finally gets free of Shelly. He is dedicated to praying the Lord's Prayer including 'thy kingdom come.' Rubel says that it is the NOW BUT NOT YET KINGDOM. I think I read that from a priest. You can't say that Johnny flunked "That Ole Humility Course." He writes and preaches:

At the conference I was at last weekend, people kept asking me about Woodmont Hills; wanting to know what was happening. And they kept reminding me that Woodmont Hills casts a wide “brotherhood” shadow – people are “watching” to see what happens and that’s important because we’re a “flagship” in the fellowship of churches of Christ. Our heritage is very important – our identity is in our heritage. Everyone is “watching.” Will they – will we – see the kingdom of God among us?

Is that a PIRATE FLAG or a WHITE FLAG?

You have it Donnie...its the "Hills"...yeah RIGHT!

Youa re SO blind. The "old paths" are dieing with the "old folks". Wise up and get with the "new paths". We will never subscribe to "your" way of thinking. Christians have always changed with the times and culture. Go back and look at history. The "Church of Christ" is not that old. We were born out of a movement back in the 1800s. You need to read up on your history a bit bro.

JD

JD

I would urge you to do some real history research on the Church and get over that 1800's thing - it's so out of date and erroneous. But then, that's the part the change agents don't want you to know. I find it sad how much our youth do not know about the Church and the changes. Please tell me you were not raised in a c of C? If so, which one?

Also, your anger and arrogance are well noted on several postings. Why are you so angry? Why is the quoting of scripture so upsetting to you? Why is the truth so wrong? It would take me pages to explain church history and how off you (and who ever has been training you) are about issues. But, I don't think you would read it or listen. Your heart and mind seem closed to the Truth based on your postings.

By the way, did you know that the "new thinking" you are so proud of was introduced within the first 50 years after Christ died and was considered "heretical" by the early Churches and Elders that had actual studied under Paul? That what's happening has happened time and again in the Church? So much for the "old ways" vs. the "new ways". There is so much more truth out there than you can imagine - it would blow your thoughts about the Church's new "ideas" out of the water. Wonder why you don't know about it?

Jeremy,

I happened to stumble across an exchange between you and a fellow named Ken something or other regarding the "change movement" and how it is affecting area Churches of Christ.

Anyway, the fact that you used the term "old paths" told me alot of good things about you .. so i thought i'd drop you a note so that we might communicate in the future.

I am a teacher at Brookside Church of Christ in south Nashville (off Tusculum Road). Fortunately our membership still insists on a "Thus sayeth the Lord" but with the state of secularism in religion today none of us can afford to be complacent.

I would be interested in your opion on the "Purpose Driven Church" material. I have read the book and discussed it with some mature members. There are certainly many doctrinal errors, and i would not recommend the book to a babe, but there are things that have merit.

Randy

1Co.14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Died C. 110 Ignatius to the Ephesians: PRIOR TO 1900!

And if those that corrupt mere human families are condemned to death, how much more shall those suffer everlasting punishment who endeavour to corrupt the Church of Christ, for which the Lord Jesus, the only-begotten Son of God, endured the cross, and submitted to death!

Whosoever, "being waxen fat," and "become gross," sets at nought His doctrine, shall go into hell.

In like manner, every one that has received from God the power of distinguishing, and yet follows an unskilful shepherd, and receives a false opinion for the truth, shall be punished.

"What communion hath light with darkness? or Christ with Belial? Or what portion hath he that believeth with an infidel? or the temple of God with idols? " And in like manner say I, what communion hath truth with falsehood? or righteousness with unrighteousness? or true doctrine with that which is false?

AD 205: Of the Apostolic Constitutions: PRIOR TO 1900! The first six books are an adaptation of the Didascalia Apostolorum, written in Syria about AD 250. Long before there was an organization named "The Catholic Church" the church was recognized to be part of the universal whole wherever it existed.

"But this peace and haven of tranquillity is the Church of Christ, into which do thou, when thou hast loosed them from their sins, restore them, as being now sound and unblameable, of good hope, diligent, laborious in good works. As a skilful and compassionate physician, heal all such as have wandered in the ways of sin; for "they that are whole have no need of a physician, but they that are sick.

"Moreover, do not leave the church of Christ; but go thither in the morning before all thy work, and again meet there in the evening, to return thanks to God that He has preserved thy life.

269 Malchion that the rulers of this world can never find an opportunity against the churches of Christ, except the hand, that defends them permits it

354-430 Augustine of Hippo PRIOR TO 1900!

For the Jews slew Christ, lest they should lose their place.

Christ slain, they lost their place. Rooted out of the kingdom were they, dispersed were they. He, raised up, requited them tribulation, He requited them unto admonition, not yet unto condemnation. For the city wherein the people raged, as a ramping and a roaring lion, crying out, "Crucify Him, Crucify Him," the Jews rooted out therefrom, hath now Christians, by not one Jew is inhabited.

There is planted the Church of Christ, whence were rooted out the thorns of the synagogue. For truly this fire blazed "as the fire of thorns."

When we have to do with Pagans, and show this coming to pass in the Church of Christ, which before was predicted of the Name of Christ, of the Head and Body of Christ, lest they think that we have forged these predictions, and from things which have happened, as though they were future, had made them up, we bring forth the books of the Jews.

If YOU wanted to be a member of the CHURCH OF CHRIST defined in the Apostolic Constitutions and practiced AS IT WAS practiced by Jesus and commanded by Paul YOU would not make it. Paul said that it was not what WENT INTO the belly which POLLUTED you but what came out of the MOUTH. That is why Jesus CAST OUT the minstrels like DUNG or EXCOMMUNICATED them from His presence. That is why Paul COMMANDED that the "churches of Christ" speak THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN (Scripture) with one MIND and one MOUTH as the ONLY way to glorify God with the HARPS OF GOD:

For He has delivered us from the sword, and hath freed us from famine, and sustained us; has delivered us from sickness, has preserved us from an EVIL TONGUE. For all which things do we give Thee thanks through Christ,

who has given us an articulate voice to confess withal,
and added to it a suitable tongue as an instrument to modulate withal,

and a proper taste, and a suitable touch, and a sight for contemplation,

and the hearing of sounds, and the smelling of vapours, and hands for work, and feet for walking.

How DID they know that? Well, NOT being ignorant, they read the DIRECT COMMANDS of Paul that commanded TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another because Jesus died to REPUDIATE the instrumental sounds which had VALIDITY only while the Jews were burning tens of thousands of TYPES of God in Christ TRYING to find comfort from those PURVEYORS OF those hypocritical arts.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Rom 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you let SINGY-CLAPPY sing that which singy-clappy WROTE then you are GLORIFYING singy clappy and singy clappy is practicing the LUCIFER or ZOE principle of BLEEDING OFF worship from God. Then Paul insists that if you are an EVANGELIST then the GENTILES will glorify God. That is why it was prophesied of JESUS CHRIST that HE would confess among the Gentiles and sing UNTO the name of God. When evangelists GO and teach "that which has been taught" they they SPEAK in an external sense and let Jesus SING unto the Father.

DEFINITION OF THE CHURCH OF CHRIST FROM THE BEGINNING:

If one belonging to the theatre PRIOR TO 1900!

(1) come, whether it be man or woman, or charioteer, or dueller, or racer, or player of prizes, or Olympic gamester, or one that plays on the pipe, on the lute, or on the harp at those games, or a dancing-master or an huckster,

(2) either let them leave off their employments, or let them be rejected. If a soldier come, let him be taught to "do no injustice, to accuse no man falsely, and to be content with his allotted wages:"

(3) if he submit to those rules, let him be received; but if he refuse them, let him be rejected.

He that is guilty of sins not to be named, a sodomite, an effeminate person, a magician, an enchanter, an astrologer, a diviner, an user of magic verses, a juggler, a mountebank, one that makes amulets, a charmer, a soothsayer, a fortune-teller, an observer of palmistry; he that, when he meets you, observes defects in the eyes or feet of the birds or cats, or noises, or SYMBOLIC sounds:

let these be proved for some time, for this sort of wickedness is hard to be washed away; and if they leave off those practices, let them be received; but if they will not agree to that, let them be rejected. Let a concubine, who is slave to an unbeliever, and confines herself to her master alone, be received;

(4) but if she be incontinent with others, let her be rejected. If one of the faithful hath a concubine, if she be a bond-servant, let him leave off that way, and marry in a legal manner: if she be a free woman, let him marry her in a lawful manner; if he does not, let him be rejected. Let him that follows the Gentile customs, or Jewish fables, either reform, or let him be rejected.

If any one follows the sports of the theatre, their huntings, or horse-races, or combats, either let him leave them off, or let him be rejected.

Let him who is to be a catechumen be a catechumen for three years; but if any one be diligent, and has a good-will to his business, let him be admitted: for it is not the length of time, but the course of life, that is judged.

Let him that teaches, although he be one of the laity, yet, if he be skilful in the word and grave in his manners, teach; for "they shall be all taught of God."

No BIBLE student can be IGNORANT of this and therefore must be a HUCKSTER or RETAILER of the WORD.

1Co.14:38 But if any man be EVIL, let him be EVIL.

PRIOR TO 1900! And from the beginning the ASSEMBLY was called THE CHURCH OF CHRIST: Silly, THAT is the name of its HEAD and BODY and GROOM. When Jesus Christ REMOVES HIS name that means that you have been DIVORCED for polluting the WORD which means RETAILING the Word.

PRIOR TO 1900! And from the garden of Eden Lucifer (Zoe) was called the SINGING AND HARP PLAYING PROSTITUTE although SHE was also a HE. Those Jesus called SCRIBES wrote their OWN songs and sermons; the Pharisees SOLD them to steal from WIDOWS; and the SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES were the ACTING SPEAKERS, singers, musicians and actors. SLICK rhetoric was always the MARK of the PARASITES who were usually SODOMITES. This was true also of all MIMICS whose PERFORMANCE was once, twice or thrice REMOVES from the facts they were IMITATING or MOCKING as MAGIC for MONEY.

PRIOR TO about 1900! No one hallucinated that PSALLO or that MELODY word was a COMMAND for THEM to "make music." Before that, by its definition and by ALL of its appearances in the LITERATURE it MARKED males PLUCKING the harp strings as a SIGNAL for the young boys as "youth ministers" to come be PLUCKED. They claimed just like ALL pagans that MUSIC bound the "body and spirit" together. What they MISSED was that the MUSIC induced SODOMY which "bound the body and spirit" together.

When the name CHRIST comes off your IDENTIFIER it is because JESUS CHRIST removed the NAME along with His Candlestick which identifies the SPIRITS as the SEVEN SPIRITS or LAMPS of Divine knowledge. People just THINK that their VISION was a commendation!

Donnie, I didn’t take the time to read this whole thread. I just saw the original post about Richland Hills, Oak Hills, and Woodmont Hills. In it, you said:

Those are some of “The Hills.” An irony…? Is it because of Psalms 98:8—“Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together”? Is it because of Psalms 121:1—“I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help”? Is it because of Isaiah 2:2—“And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it”?

I am curious: are you trying to be funny, or are you serious?

By following the women to the MOUNTAINS or HILLS to worship the Mountain Gods you SHOULD be AMAZED. This speaks of MALES who intruded to the naked women who worshipped in the HILLS: they got castrated or murdered:

Look at it this way:

A Song of Ascents. I will lift up my eyes to the hills From whence comes my help? Psa 121:1NKJV

Now, this fits the context because the Psalmists said, NO. My help does not come from created things but from the Creator: the Lord.

My help cometh from the Lord, which MADE heaven and earth. Psa 121:2

Sounds pretty catchy to you? Sure. Everyone knows that neither God nor the enemy can get at you if you build a mountain like the towers of Babylon. The Assyrians might get you with their chariots on the plains but trust in the hills to save you.

"But there were some in Israel who were not just ordinary citizens. They saw by the eye of the Spirit. And they were aware of the weakness of trusting in natural resources for help against such cunning, vicious, and determined enemies.

Sounds like Satan giving false security in wine, women and song. What if we just changed it from a declaration of faith into a serious question by those with eyes.

Many paganistic Jews believed that God was God of the mountain or hills but not of the plains simply because the people felt more protected by the physical hills. The Living Bible reads:

Shall I look to the mountain gods for help? Psa 121:1LIV NO. Don't Do it!

No! My help is from Jehovah who made the mountains! And the heavens too! Psa 121:2LIV

And we have other proof of the utter superstition that God is restricted in where He can work. For instance,

And the servants of the king of Syria said unto him, Their gods are gods of the hills; therefore they were stronger than we; but let us fight against them in the plain, and surely we shall be stronger than they. 1K.20:23


Har (g2022) har; a short. form of 2042; a mountain or range of hills (sometimes used fig.): - hill (country), mount (-ain), * promotion.


And there came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the Lord,

Because the Syrians have said, The Lord is God of the hills, but he is not God of the valleys, therefore will I deliver all this great multitude into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the Lord. 1 Kings 20:28

So, DON'T be amazed that ZOE is LUCIFER and HAR is the mountain part of HAR MEGIDDO, Armageddon. I would get a SPERM COUNT!

Ken, God gave you fingers for a reason. I don’t know His specific reason for giving you your specific fingers, but I am pretty sure it was NOT so you could type trash like this:

So, DON'T be amazed that ZOE is LUCIFER and HAR is the mountain part of HAR MEGIDDO, Armageddon. I would get a SPERM COUNT!

I am sincerely curious how a statement like that could possibly build up the Kingdom?
Please stop. Please.

Floods, monkeys, clapping, who knows what you’re talking about?

On the term “intruding, rhythmic clappers”, saying they have no consideration for those offended by the noise, and prefer to worship God in reverence, that’s just plain selfish.

Because YOU don’t like clapping, then SURELY God doesn’t. It seems YOU have no consideration for those who (key word you used: PREFER) to worship God with joy and clapping. Better cover up; your hypocrisy is beginning to show.

By the way, good job taking scripture out of context AGAIN. (Hab. 2:20) If you’re going to use that, then why don’t you worship Him in SILENCE (no singing, preaching, etc…) FYI “His holy temple” is NOT a modern day church building.

I have no idea what a MOO-sical Worship Leader is, but if you are talking about a contemporary, relevant, modern day song leader, check the words of the newer songs. Most of them come straight from scripture. MUCH more so than the ones in the old “Songs of the Church” hymnal.

You really amaze me. Until the time you mentioned your wife and children, I had suspected all along that you were a female change agent. It’s really difficult to converse with someone who has a generic name. In lengthy conversations, it would make life easier to be able to use pronouns instead where it’s not necessary to address someone by a long generic name. It is really quite “burdensome” to have to address “Concerned Christian” constantly when I could simply say he or she. So, s/he still needs to let us know if he/she is really a he or she. In your case, I now know that you are a husband.

I think you will better understand about floods, monkeys and clapping, if you re-read my post earlier. The passage says, “Let the floods clap their hands” (Ps. 98:8). So, the floods have hands that clap—however seriously you want to take that. People clap their hands (applaud) after a performance. Certainly, we know that people have hands. And now … the monkeys! This is what I’m not sure about—I do not recall my biology lessons. That’s why I said “I think” that monkeys have hands and feet … or are they all feet? Funny!?! Only because the rhythmic clappers do their own thingy in the assembly!!!

So, you don’t like the expression “intruding rhythmic clappers”? Yes, clapping is rhythmic—not spontaneous. But joy is spontaneous—not programmed … not rhythmic. Thus, the expression: rhythmic clapping to the beat of the music. The same is true with cheerleading—clapping is rhythmic. Above all, rhythmic clapping is intrusive to many in peaceable churches who do not have clapping in the first place.

It is the NOISE from clapping that is offensive. Yes, NOISE!!! There are only a few rhythmic clappers in Madison, but the noise is loud enough to be a disturbance. Besides, the assembly can go on without the NOISE! And that’s not being selfish. What’s selfish is on the part of the rhythmic clappers because all they care about is how to make themselves FEEL GOOD. Believe me, programmed clapping is far from being a spontaneous joy. I shed TEARS OF JOY upon the realization that my Savior has died in my stead.

Why can’t clappers do so (of being joyful) without the turbulence? So, now, whose hypocrisy do you think is showing? “Oh, Lord, I clap my hands rhythmically because everyone else who hears me clap knows that I love you, Lord. I don’t care whom I offend, Lord, for you know my heart.” And that’s not being selfish?

Please don’t put words in my mouth. That God likes clapping is speculative.

Did you hear me say “His holy temple is a modern day church building”? What does the New Testament say about the temple of God’s holy Spirit? (I Cor. 6:9) Besides, I certainly can worship God without singing and preaching.

I have checked many of the Contemporary Christian Music, especially those written by profiteering artists. Don’t get me wrong. There are a few CCM pieces that I can hardly wait to being included in the hymn books. But many of the “Christian Rock and Rap” songs belong somewhere else. Just because the word “God” or “divine” or “love” is mentioned in the song, that doesn’t necessarily make it worship-worthy.

Frankly, comparing CCM pieces with hymns written in the 1500’s or 1800’s is a joke.

Amazed, you really detest the church you seemed to have left. That much! I hope that you’re having all the successes as you endeavor to be affiliated with another church that can and will fulfill your personal needs. Have you considered any of the Pentecostal churches where your kind of JOYFUL NOISE abounds? Perhaps, one church might fulfill one of your needs; another church for another need; etc. You see, ecumenism has never worked. Something to think about, correct?

Donnie

I am a he.

Not that it really matters.

Sorry about the gender obscurity- yes I am male.

My comments concerning ¡§intruding, rhythmic clappers¡¨- it wasn¡¦t ¡§rhythmic¡¨ I questioned. It was the ¡§intruding¡¨. Believe me, any argument you use against clapping, can be used for it. You say they just do it to make themselves FEEL GOOD- doesn¡¦t it make you FEEL GOOD to worship without clapping?

Paul talks about the maturation process of Christians. I¡¦m not being facetious, but seriously, is it mature to say, ¡§Clapping offends me¡¨??? Are we not mature enough to not be offended by someone putting their hands together in praise to the LORD? That¡¦s the bottom line- the purpose of the clapping is not to dishonor God or renounce Him, it¡¦s just the opposite. What¡¦s so offensive about that?

Now Donnie, I like you, and I think you have some great things to say on this site, but I want to quote you directly from the above post:

¡§Oh, Lord, I clap my hands rhythmically because everyone else who hears me clap knows that I love you, Lord. I don¡¦t care whom I offend, Lord, for you know my heart.¡¨ And that¡¦s not being selfish?

Your next sentence:
¡§Please don¡¦t put words in my mouth.¡¨

Come on, you have to admit, that¡¦s a TAD bit hypocritical ƒº

Yes, I agree, to say God likes clapping is speculative. AS IT ALSO IS to say He doesn¡¦t!

Actually, I DID hear you say the Lord¡¦s temple is a modern day church building. In the middle of a discussion about clapping in a modern day church building, you quoted Habb. 2:20. What else was I supposed to infer from that? If that¡¦s not what you meant, you were WAAAAAYYYYY out of context.

I appreciate your comments on CCM. There really are some good, holy songs. Here¡¦s the deal: You said some of them aren¡¦t ¡§worship-worthy¡¨. Who sets the standard for what is worship-worthy and what isn¡¦t? YOU? It¡¦s all about opinion. I agree, comparing CCM with songs written in 1500¡¦s IS a joke. So is singing songs written in 1500. IMHOƒº

I don¡¦t detest the church I left, but I do have some resentment for the things I was taught for so many years that I found in the Bible not to be true. It hurts. I don¡¦t want that for my children.

Why is it a joke to compare CCM songs with hymns of previous centuries? You made a statement without providing any proof.

The fact is, many of the "grand old hymns" of the church are fairly shallow. The doctrine is suspect, especially when it comes to salvation. For example in the ymn "To God Be the Glory" it reads, "The vilest offender who truly believes that moment from Jesus a pardon receives."

How's that for faith only?

When Amazed states that most of the contemporary worship songs come straight from Scripture, he is correct. There is a lot more Scripture content in them than in the old testimony hymns.

Another fact: When a lot of those old hymns were first introduced, they were allowe in "respectable" churches because they were too contemporary. Mnay of Fanny Crosby's hymns were branded as vulgar, ragtime, dance hall tunes. The passage of time and continual usage has transformed them into sacred hymns.

Perspective is everything. It is entirely fitting to compare these different styles of church music.

Rick

Our bodies are DEAD because our SPIRIT has been translated into a HEAVENLY KINGDOM. Jesus Christ is our worship leader and the WHOLE assembly of Christ meets in the Most Holy place which is in silence. No singer, speaker or musician could enter into the Holy Place as a type of the earthly WING devoted TOTALLY to education. Anyone who tried would be executed. Why would anyone think that they can LEAD people to "come boldly before the Throne of Grace" by hand clapping which is hissing God? The individual meets at the INCENSE altar looking the Most Holy Place were there was a HALF HOUR OF SILENCE which is what you do if you REMOTELY grasp that God is God and the clappers are NOT. Here is the PATTERNISM for the clappers:

Fred Peatross: Spectacle Creations aren't just presentations by performers but events that provide an occasion for the enactment of an experience by participants and large crowds that gather. In this spectacle there is the development of anticipation or expectation about what is coming; there is pacing (a movement from fast to slow to fast); there is total participation by the audience.

Music plays a key part of the spectacle.

Sound, as a sensual component, enters us in a way in which the visual alone cannot.
Previous generations found meaning in words;
today's generations find meaning in experiences. In concerts there is a convergence--the total experience takes place in the response of an audience to the multidimensional character of electronic events. There are music, words, the charisma of the artists,

the percussive use of light, images and beat, the behaviors of the crowd, the kinesthetic involvement of the audience in moving, dancing and typically staying on their feet the entire time. The power of the event for the participative audience occurs.

That is a perfect defense of shutting down the rational (spiritual) mind and getting directly into the emotions. The problem is that people ACCEPT what they are told but cannot TEST THE SPIRITS. Dionysus is the god of new wineskins and was worshipped along with father Zeus (now Je-Zeus) as the Abomination of Desolation as they turned the Temple into a theater and built the gymnasium alongside.

An Example of the Plan: Conducting Dead Souls: Aristophanes, Frogs (ed. Matthew Dillon) Heracles

Dionysus
Now, by the Gods, besides these there should be
Whoever learned Kinesias' pyrrhic dance.

Heracles
Next a breath of pipes will surround you,
you'll see a shining light, just like up here,
then myrtle groves, and happy choirs
of men and woman mixed
who loudly clap their hands.

Dionysus
And who are these?

Heracles
These are the Mystic celebrants.

Xanthias
By God, I am the donkey at the Mysteries!
But I won't put up with this for one more minute!

Heracles
And these will tell you all you wish to know,
For they live closest by the way to Pluto's door.
And now farewell, my brother.

Dionysus
Thanks, and you too
prosper. But you, take the baggage up again.....

Xanthias
Then I'll carry it.

Dionysus
That's fair.
And sure enough, they're bringing out a corpse right here.
Hallo you there ! --you, the dead man, I mean;
Will you take this baggage down to Hell?

The musical worship condemned by Isaiah 5-8; Isaiah 5; Ezekiel 33 and many other passages was--like the Agapae--a feast WITH and FOR the dead or demons. It must be possible to adopt such prophesied worship without blaming conservative churches of Christ, Baptists, Presbyterians, Moslems and MOST of the world's worshipers who DO NOT see music as lawful.

Kineô as the KEY to the emerging church from (Liddell and Scott)

I. pf to set in motion, to move, Hom., attic
2. to move or remove a thing from its place, to meddle with things sacred, disturb, of a wasps' nest, ta chrêmata es allo ti to apply them to an alien purpose, castra movere, Xen.:-- to change, innovate, b. To shake, to cause to waver, to alter, earthquakes

The ekklesia, synagogue or school of the Bible will not participate with this fatal sign:

Heb.12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing [translating out of] of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made [innovated], that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.


Saleuo (g4531) sal-yoo'-o; from 4535; to waver, i.e. agitate, rock, topple or (by impl.) destroy; fig. to disturb, incite: - move, shake (together), which can [-not] be shaken, stir up. [wag the tail of a dog]


Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.