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Ken Sublett
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March 1 2006, 11:08 PM 

Peter defined the MEMORY he was leaving, defined it as EYE and EAR witness and left us a record so that we could MARK or JUDGE false teachers. Paul said that elders (the authorized teachers) must "teach that which has been taught" and "refute those who oppose it."

Judgment here is not measuring a person's teaching by Scripture. Nor, is it assigning the same judgment Jesus assigns. Judgment is something taking place among "instrumental" churches as they lie, cheat, us the Law, steal churches and force the owners to "get over it" or "get with it or get out." J. W. McGarvey went through such an experience. I know of completed hostile takeovers or coups and I am aware of a dedicated people who have almost pledged themselves not to eat until they have "taken the axe" to ANTI-instrumental churches of Christ:

Matt 7:1 JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

Judging is when you DECIDE that a church would "save more souls" if taken out of the hands on churches of Christ and then taking ACTION to inflict monetary and spiritual DAMAGE against the old owners. You may remember that one early such event was at Sand Creek, Ill., where Daniel Sommers got blackened for PREVENTING the stealing of the church.

Krino (g2919) kree'-no; prop. to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by impl. to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think..

krinô 3. pass sentence upon, condemn, D.19.232:-- Pass., to be judged, condemned, kakourgou . . esti krithent' apothanein Id.4.47 ; mê krinete, hina mê krithête Ev.Matt.7.1 ; the judgement of a court,
    Demosthenes On the Embassy 19.[232] With this example before his eyes, who, men of Athens, will ever wish to prove himself an honest man, or to go on embassy for nothing, if he is neither to make money nor to be held more worthy of your confidence than those who have made money? Today you are not merely adjudging this case: you are legislating for all future time, whether every ambassador is basely to serve your enemies for hire, or without fee or bribe to give his best service to you.

    First Philippic Demosthenes 4.[47] How then is all this to be stopped? As soon as you, men of Athens, definitely appoint the same men as soldiers and as eye-witnesses of the campaign, and, on their return, as jurymen at the audit of your generals. In this way you will not merely learn about your affairs by hearsay, but you will be witnesses on the spot. So scandalous is our present system that every general is tried two or three times for his life in your courts, but not one of them dares to risk death in battle against the enemy; no, not once. They prefer the doom of a kidnapper or a pickpocket to a fitting death; for malefactors are condemned to the gallows, generals should die on the field of honor.

Mt.7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    Krima (g2917) kree'-mah; from 2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ["crime"]): - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, / go to law, judgment.
So, the old JUDGMENT ploy is psychological violence because you don't like people spreading the absolute truth that music is a MARK which says to God: "WE WILL NOT listen to Your songs and sermons." In speaking about MOUTH RELIGION Jesus pointed directly to beautiful singing and well-played instrument: they hear your words but refuse to obey.

It's all playing out exactly as Revelation 18's definition of the Babylon Harlot prophesied.

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Concerned Christian
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Re: On Second Thought...

February 27 2006, 3:53 PM 

Here are your Stats:

Source: Churches of Christ in the United States 2006 edition

2003 13,155 Congregations
2006 12,963 Congregations

2003 1,276,621 Members;
2006 1,265,844 Members

Dropping in #. Sorry Bill

And just think some of these members are of the "Fruity Loop"

Of course this source is listing the One Cuppers, Non-Class, Mutual Edification, and Non Institutional Churches, which you probably do not agree with.

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(no login)

Re: On Second Thought...

February 27 2006, 6:20 PM 

CC and Jack,

Go back and read your postings. Note that everything you write is about what YOU want and how You feel and has NOTHING to do with the scriptures. Isn't that interesting?

If we were to follow your command, we would no longer even need the Bible. You have made it a useless book, a reminder of days gone by. YOU are what the Apostles and Jesus warned us about. You fit all the criteria for a "false teacher".

You don't have any idea of God's love or what it takes to be a Christian, because you have distanced yourself from the Word. You go on and on about "love", but love includes your behavior and following God's commands. You are like a rebellious child, thinking you know more than the parent.

Take CC's comments on the early Church elders "opinions". Is that not the biggest cop-out! By the way CC, those comments were in regards to scriptures and what the Apostles had taught at their church. Yes, they had the same scriptures and even referred to them in these "opinion" pieces, though they were known as letters and memoires instead of Books.

And Jack's comments are about as unChristian as you can get without actually cursing. And that's the love your churches are teaching? The love of ignorance and ridicule?

You are so determined to stick your head in the sand and play "dumb", that you don't even make sense anymore.

You've been made aware. Your actions are no longer on my conscience. Good will need it.

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Concerned Christian
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Re: On Second Thought...

February 28 2006, 1:34 AM 


You have made me aware of nothing. I grew up with it. Nothing you say hurts or shocks me. You and other CM's make Heaven difficult to obtain, I know because I used to do the same thing. PPB, You and I have a goal of Heaven, I just choose to not assume things like the usage of instruments as being a salvation issue for example.

I have said to friends in the past and I will share with you my thoughts on majoring in Bible. It was/has been the best thing that ever happened to me. The reason it was the best is because it opened my eyes to a Gospel of peace and developing a Relationship with God loosening the chains of bondage. I thought if I memorized a bunch of verses that would in some way get me to Heaven. If I/our team won Bible Bowls it would get us closer to THE Prize. How foolish I was.

PPB I pulled my head out of the sand a long time ago and it has been so awesome!

Also please study what a false teacher is. It is not someone that believes instruments are OK either.

I believe Jesus is the Savior and that is the truth. I believe He came here to FREE people, not make a tricky road of do's and don'ts that we would make into a COMMAND and then in turn become judge, jury, and executioner.

Please be careful that you do not get caught up in judging people's hearts. You do not know me and your words are full of anger.

In all sincerity...Thanks for the prayers it is great when fellow Christians Pray for each other, I too will pray for you that you be strong against Satan and his fiery darts that come your way.


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Dr. Bill Crump
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Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

February 28 2006, 4:21 PM 

CC: "You and other CM's make Heaven difficult to obtain."

Dr. Crump: That's because Heaven IS difficult to obtain, something CC continues to ignore. To him, broad is the way to salvation; it is ecumenical. But to Christ:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matt. 7:13-14 KJV).

Not all who say "Lord, Lord," will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but only those who do the will of the Father in Heaven (Matt. 7:21-23 KJV). To do the will of the Father is to obey His Word to the Letter, whether that be about music, baptism, or selection of MALE deacons, for example. Here's something that many do not realize:

Every word of God/Christ in the New Testament, every command, every principle IS a salvation issue!

We take five initial steps to become a Christian, according to principles found in the NT, but obedience doesn't stop there. The grace of Christ does not preclude our continued and fervent obedience to everthing that He commanded. Every word of God/Christ in the NT is to be obeyed as much as is humanly possible, for Christ commanded that we observe ALL things whatsoever He commanded us (Matt. 28:20). What He has commanded is ALL written in the Gospels and the apostolic epistles. And if the apostolic writers inserted any of their personal "opinions" that were not from God, they made sure that they were flagged accordingly (cf. Paul's opinion about marriage in 1 Cor. 7:12). I will repeat this as much as it takes until rebels and renegades acknowledge it, for it is TRUTH.

To the Christ-centered person, obedience to Christ's words in the NT is neither "bondage" nor "shackles" but PLEASURE. Unfortunately, CC continues to place more stock in his "higher education," his "Bible degree," and the scholarship of men, which have emancipated him from the "bondage" of rules and regulations, even those inherent in the New Testament.

Ladies and gentlemen, "Concerned Christian," a person who bears a cowardly, oxymoron of an alias given his ultra liberal, theological stance that smacks of the heretical Change Movement, is a hopeless case.

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Concerned Christian
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

February 28 2006, 9:56 PM 


I am glad you are Pleasured by your religious beliefs. I am pleasured by mine. I am sorry you make Heaven Hard to achieve. Thank God Jesus Died for us and that we are judged by how we live our lives through Him instead of being judged on every bad thing we may do. I do not sin so Grace may abound. I have just come to grips with the Fact that I am not perfect and let Jesus do the leading.

Your interpretaions of Male and Female deacons is wrong by the way. I know I know the "Fruity Loop" thing.

Please follow to the Book to the Letter on everything. Have your wife cover her head this Sunday or shave it. Greet people with a Holy Kiss. Serve your communion differently this Sunday. Luke 22: 17-21

Bill, You make it sound like I am an Anti-Christ. I John 2:22 I am just a man trying to get through this life and being in bondage is of no interest to me. Being in Christ is Freedom, not in a sense like you make it "where I think everything goes." I relize there is a responsibility to uphold Jesus' teachings. Once again everything you need to know about Godly living is in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.

May God Give you peace as you labor for Him.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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RE: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

February 28 2006, 11:54 PM 

CC: "I am sorry you make Heaven Hard to achieve."

Dr. Crump: We'll try again for the hard-headed. Christ, not Dr. Crump, said:

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it" (Matt. 7:13-14 KJV).

Might want to reconsider Who it really was that said it's tough to get into heaven.

BTW, when you gonna ditch that cowardly alias?

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Concerned Christian
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Re: RE: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 1 2006, 10:36 AM 

He did not say it was difficult to enter Heaven. You are reading into it. Are you saying there is a limitation to obtaining the goal?

God does NOT want people to go to Hell. He established a Law for people to understand boundaries. He then brought the Law of Christ which is Grace Driven. No one is perfect, and when clothed in Christ's Blood I am confident that I am going to Heaven. Your comments remind me of class I was teaching recently. We had a few "crispers" like you that were not sure if they were going to heaven they just "Hoped" that they were going to Heaven. 50/50 chance? WOW! How do people not have confidence? That is the Fear Factor that has been engrained into Christians Heads for years! It amazes me how we cannot have the confidence that by Following Christ we will win! We are promised that!

There is no way any of us deserve Heaven, which is why He sent Jesus here to save us. I guess trying to undo 40-50-60+ years of theology are hard for some to do.

Jesus is the answer and I believe that. There are people out there denying Christ all over the globe, but do not accuse me of NOT believing in Him or making Him difficult to become a Brother to.

Let's look at what Jesus did not say..."it would be tricky and hopefully you will make it. Hope to see you there."

I am completely blown away at the ignorance of some.

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Jack Mann
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Heaven is Difficult to Obtain

March 1 2006, 11:44 AM 

Mr. Crump, you quote from Matthew, chapter 7, the Lords "Sermon on the Mount."
Matthew tells us in the beginning of chapter 7 that Jesus said, "Judge not, that you be not judged." His command here, lays down a general principle in the form of universal prohibition. This principle is, of course, to be limited by other Scriptural laws concerning judgment. As you know, our judgment of Christians must be charitable (John 7:24; 1 Cor. 13:5,6), in remembrance of the fact that they are God's servants (Ro. 14:4); and that He reserves to himself the ultimate right to judging both you and me (Ro. 14:4; ! Cor. 4:3,4; 2 Cor. 5:10).

If we are to pick and choose from what Jesus said on that Mountain Plateau not far from Capernaum, we must conclude that all the "poor in spirit" will be in heaven for in Matthew 5 we read, "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Jesus said, "the pure in heart" will "see God." Do you have a "pure heart" Mr. Crump?
How about the "peacemakers? Jesus said, "they shall be called the sons of God." Have you made "peace" with anyone Mr. Crump? If so, you are IN! Jesus said, "blessed are the poor, for yours is the kingdom of God." That puts a whole lot of people IN. Begins to "widen" the "narrow gate" does it not?

A Bible student would do well to research who was among the crowd listening to Jesus on that historical day. You are aware that the Roman Catholic Church has built its doctrine of purgatory on verses 25, 26 of Matthew 5? We must keep in mind that the Bible was written by men with a near-Eastern culture, and not a church of Christ member from Paducah, Kentucky. Jesus, in summarizing his teaching would say, "By their fuits you shall know them; for each tree is known by its own fruit." He is saying here: teachers are to be judged by their conduct as men and also by the effect of their teaching. If either be predominately bad, the man must be avoided. But, Mr. Crump, you and I must not judge hastily, nor by slight or trivial actions, for some specimens of bad fruit grows on good trees. I have grown to be fond of Mr. Sublett's rhetoric, I believe he means well. Therefore, I will refrain from judging those on this forum and become a "peacemaker".
Keep your sunny side up.
Jack Mann

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Dr. Bill Crump
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The Sermon on the Mount and the Narrow Gate

March 2 2006, 11:09 PM 

The Sermon on the Mount, Matt. 5-7, begins with those who are the favored of God and who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. These are the Beatitudes. Here, Christ provides example attributes of those who will enter Heaven. But Christ does not reveal the relative number of those who fit those descriptions until near the end of His sermon; and that relative number is FEW.

For those who love more modern translations but who stubbornly rebel against the Scriptures and deny that Christ said that getting into Heaven is difficult, the New King James states:

"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it" (Matt. 7:14).

And it's not "Blessed are the poor: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." The correct reading is "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:3 KJV). The first rendering can be taken to mean the physical poor, those without money or means. The correct rendering has a truly spiritual meaning: the poor in spirit are those, rich OR poor, who humble themselves and resist prideful attitudes; the size of their pocket books will avail them nothing.

It goes without saying that there are few people today who could be described as truly humble, given the many who have flocked to embrace the heretical Change Movement, a movement which fosters self-gratification and self-esteem over self-denial.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Another Modern Way of Saying It

March 3 2006, 11:08 AM 

For those who prefer an even more modern version:

“You can enter God’s Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose the easy way. But the gateway to life is small, and the road is narrow, and only a few ever find it” (Matt. 7:13-14 New Living Translation).

My goodness! This version makes things sound even worse than does the King James for those who choose the wide, broad path. What to do? Well, let’s just ignore and avoid these verses altogether. Blot them from our minds! Deny them! Don’t preach them! Don’t tell the undiscerning about them! That’s the “easy way” out. After all, the path to heaven is wide and ecumenical! Anyone who “knows about” Jesus can enter! Even Satan “knows about” Jesus, so he can enter, too! God is too merciful and wouldn’t condemn anyone, not even Satan himself in the long run!

Ladies and gentlemen, it’s hard to get into Heaven, any way you look at it, any version you choose, because too many folks are just not willing to do what the New Testament says to do. The Matt. 7:13-14 passage is not a part of the Change Movement’s favored, biblical repertoire, for it rings too close to home. The change agents avoid and deny Matt. 7:13-14, claiming that it is too “negative.” They would much rather focus on the Beatitudes of Matt. 5, claiming that the eight categories mentioned therein encompass virtually everyone: poor in spirit, meek, peacemakers, the persecuted, etc., etc. Something more “positive.” But with the positive also comes the negative, and Christ wasn’t about to hide from people the consequences of disobedience; hence Matt. 7:13-14, which reveals that FEW will ever find the Kingdom of Heaven, because most people will choose the easy, wide, and broad route instead.

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David Rhoades
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 1 2006, 10:31 AM 

Tools of The Godless

Occasionally we have to remind folks why this web site exist, because one of the tools of the Godless is confusion.

Today's church has been infiltrated by the Godless. (1)

Our mission is to warn you. Our mission is not to condemn those that use instrumental music, but to warn you that they will try to take over your church.

Never has a church been infiltrated and taken over by a non-instrumental group.

Their tools are the lie, confusion, and thievery.

Watch them as they tell you that you are the cause of division. Your old ways are outdated, and are the reasons for the death of the church.

Beware that these Godless impostors are among you. They pretend to pray with you, and preach from your pulpits.

They take advantage of the Christian's lack of knowledge about something that evil being present in the church.

They pretend to be your loving brother, while only seeking to take your soul.

Yes, there are those that have been duped by the Godless. We must warn you of both.

At first they will pretend to study with you, but it's only to compromise you.

Be Careful My Brother and Sister.

Their goal is apostasy of the Lords' Church.

As their tongues speak of love, unity, diverstiy, and the Great Commission, their actions show their true fruit.

(1) The Intentional Infiltration of the church by the Anti-Apostles

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Concerned Christian
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 8 2006, 1:03 AM 

How sad for you David. Because Christians continue to educate themselves they become your enemy and thus you must judge. I am praying that you soften your heart and look at what you are saying about fellow Christians. Remember that Satan is the enemy, not your brothers standing beside you.

This garbage about Fruity Loops and hate is so sad. Heaven, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not hard to obtain we just make so many added rules like the Jews did/do that we make God something difficult to obtain. When Jesus was on the Earth the Jews had over 600 interpretations of the Law now they have 1,000's. They have made God Scary and hard to obtain. This is how we treat God...He came here in the flesh to take us home and we make it out to be a Checklist of things we must do. The fear on tis site is flat out scary. We hear arguments about salvaton being wrapped up in a single service on Sunday or knocking doors during the week. There is not one work that can save you or I! No one is perfect and the simplicity of the scriptures teach that we do not deserve the crown, but if we follow Him (I don't mean checklist religion) and share the Good News many souls can be saved.

Please turn your energy into something positive, like encouraging rather than discouraging. The efforts put forth on this site could be used in the mission field rather than talking horribly negative about people.

May God bring you peace.

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David Rhoades
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 8 2006, 10:30 AM 

You are putting words in my mouth.

I spoke of the Godless, not Christians.

If you had read the above referenced article, you would have learned that there are the Godless that have actually infiltrated the churches and other places.

I also spoke of the "duped". This could be Christians that have been fooled.

Generally, to be "duped" requires a lack of discernment.

At this point I am sory, but we don't know if you are one of the Godless, or one of those with a general lack of discernment.

With a little study I think we could find out.

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Concerned Christian
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 8 2006, 11:54 AM 

I did read the reference and I can clearly see what you are talking about. Education allowed me to no longer be fooled. Our heritage has some pretty weak arguments and they are now being exposed. I refuse to go back and fight points that have no relevance for me. Instruments, church attendance sealing my salvation, being excited in worship (Raising Holy Hands), Praise team (Multiple Song Leaders Rather than One), solos with Music is wrong, but a Prayer (which is a solo without Music) is OK. Just to name a few are of no interstes to me to go back to.

Our interpretations of Scripture not only in the Church of Christ, but denominationally wide have been intersting. Pick and choose theology if you will. For instance the Lord's Supper which we say can only be taken on Sunday or Jesus will be upset is ridiculous. We have overused Acts 20:7 and fail to continue to read beyond verse 7 Please continue to read 11. Sounds like on Monday they took it again. And if "Break Bread" is an idiom for the Lord's Supper then we should do it daily Acts 2:46.

It is arguments like this that are driving people away. The C of C and other churches act as if they have the perfect answers to everything, but our own arguments come back to haunt us. Being Free in Christ is truly a path I and lots of others are choosing to take. We love Jesus and what He has done for us and if that is truly apostate then I guess I will go to Hell with many...because as some keep telling me Broad is the Way, which means that if you have an instrument, communion on any day except Sunday, Sway in Worship(as Donnie Puts it), Having a Praise Team etc. then I am truly doomed.

As I have said over and over agian, what goes on in a church assembly is edification (I believe we agree) of one another and Worship. However everyday is Worship in how we live our lives. I try every day to be a Light to people just like you do, however I will no longer set limitations on God and make up rules He never said were a Heaven and Hell issue.

Keep studying I think you will see that God is not difficult to get to Know. He is not a God of Confusion.

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David Rhoades
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 8 2006, 1:33 PM 

If indeed you had read the article, you would have noticed
the Godless that have infiltrated the church planned to
use contemporary music to bring the church into apostasy.

So, since you are for contemporary music in the church, you and the Godless are proposing the same thing.

How do we tell you from the Godless?

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Concerned Christian
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 8 2006, 10:48 PM 

This is an exceprt from a post I made to Donnie in the "What Happened At Madison Part 10" that he did NOT put on.

Donnie "By the way...You are so presumptious to think that I am saying we have to have instruments in the Churches of Christ. I have said all along and will continue to say that I DO NOT believe it is a salvation issue and to continue to read into it is ludicrous. You hear someone say that instruments are not a salvation issue and you think that we are saying we MUST have them or else."

How is it Godless to have instruments? How does that honestly drive someone to Hell? I guess if you read the stuff that Sublett puts on this site it would scare you. Goat Heads with obscene you know what's etc. I do not understand this elementary theology anymore. I once did when I was a child, but now I just can't buy it or defend it anymore, nor can the majority of my age group. (By the way I am 33.) I go to an Acapella Church of Christ I just choose to not divide over things like this anymore with my friends that love Jesus which happen to go to a different Sign out front of their building.

If you think that I and others are Godless because I will not judge someone's Heart or Spirit on opinions or interpretations of Instruments that are not there then so be it.

You have to answer to God someday for what you are doing. This is where Grace will come into play!

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David Rhoades
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Re: Heaven IS Difficult to Obtain

March 9 2006, 12:10 PM 

Concerned Christian;

You are apparently unable or unwilling to carry on a
straight line conversation without creating confusion.

It's my opinion that you have had time to make your
points, and there comes a time when we have to call
wormwood wormwood.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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The Child Can Accept; the Adult Cannot

March 9 2006, 1:06 PM 

Concerned Christian: "I do not understand this elementary theology anymore. I once did when I was a child, but now I just can't buy it or defend it anymore, nor can the majority of my age group. (By the way I am 33.)"

Dr. Crump: As Christ said, we must become like little children--humble and fully trusting Him at His Word--or we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. What Christ has spelled out in the Gospels and to the apostolic writers we must trust like children, having faith to follow it as fully written. That means not adding anything to it, not taking anything from it. Such theology is definitely elementary as Christ intended. We must first become abased in earthly life to become exalted in eternity. The first shall be last and the last first.

Too often, once-faithful children grow up and attain a complex education which warps and ruins that elementary faith which they had as youths. This is not to say that higher education is not good in itself, but too often people fall prey to the liberal and agnostic opinions of biblical scholars and others who teach a doctrine different from the simplicity of the New Testament. Scholarship then supplants the elementary dictates of the New Testament, and that causes spiritual downfall. This is what separates the faithful from the apostate.

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Ken Sublett
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ONE act can send you to hell!

March 8 2006, 12:19 PM 

Unless ALL of the Bible is WRONG then singing and clapping your OWN songs and claiming to lead the "paying audience" into the presence of God will not be forgiven now or for ever.

You know that it was the SPIRIT OF CHRIST Who informed the prophets and the prophets "rant" agaisnt MUSIC and connects it to the prostitutes and Sodomites who collected all of the people looking for love in all of the wrong places. (Ezek 33, etal).

So, God will come with ten thousand of his saints to GET YOU and the SPECIFIC sin was MUSIC used to seduce people into the presence of Satan or Lucifer or Zoe.

You may wanna take your chances that 100% of recorded literature is WRONG but condemning people who REFUSE TO BOW is part of the MARK of the LOCUSTS under Abaddon.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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