A Member of the Body of Christ (no login) from IP address 205.188.116.8
There is something wrong, something very wrong. There needs to be a change, a big change.
There is this body, this body of believers. This body all believes in the same God. This body believes in the same Savior. Everyone in this body gains the same salvation. Everyone in this body receives the same grace. Everyone in this body is covered by the same blood. Everyone in this body is destined to go to the same place.
Yet, this body is divided, very divided. This body is full of people who think they are always right. This body is full of people that are concentrated on the wrong things. This body is full of people who try to tear each other apart instead of build each other up. This body is full of people that do not accept each other. This believed body of love and unity is sometimes a body of hatred and division.
Is not this body of unity supposed to love each other? Is not this body of unity supposed care for each other? Is not this body of unity supposed to accept each other and its differences? Is not this body of unity supposed to present the lost world with hope? How can this body successfully do these things when it is hurting itself with division and hatred?
WE, AS THE BODY OF CHRIST, ALL BELIEVE IN THE SAME GOD. WE ALL HAVE HOPE IN THE SAME SAVIOR. WE SOMETIMES HAVE DIFFERENT PREFERENCES, BUT WE ALL STILL LOVE OUR SAME GOD. WE NEED TO LAY ASIDE OUR PERSONAL PREFERENCES WHICH HAVE BEEN SHAPED AND MOLDED INTO RULES. BAPTIST, METHODIST, CHURCH OF CHRIST, PRESBYTIRIAN, NAZARENE, AND WHOEVEVER BELIEVES IN THE RISEN SAVIOR, WE ARE ALL A PART OF SAME BODY, THE BODY OF CHRIST. WE ARE BROTHERS, AND WE ARE SISTERS. WE ARE CHRISTIANS. WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE TOGETHER UNIFIED IN HEAVEN FOR ETERNITY. WE NEED TO LOVE EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO ACCEPT EACH OTHER. WE NEED TO CUT THE TENSION AND COME TOGETHER. WE NEED TO BE THE BODY OF CHRIST WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.
"I am the way and the truth and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 Jesus is the only way. Our demonation of church does not determine our salvation. Only our acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord. Jesus is the way. He is the truth. He is the light. We can be saved by nothing else.
Your article is atypical of the message that this website is trying to convey—which is basically to warn congregations of the dangers and risks involved when unnecessary and controversial changes are being enforced against the will of many of a church’s members. This website is opposed to ecumenism—which has never worked even among a number of religious groups who call for unity. There may be union in ecumenism, but union is not the same thing as unity. The Holy Scripture does not speak of any form of “union,” but it speaks a great deal about unity.
Your article contains valid points that we all can agree upon. But the question of achievability remains. The denominational world will never, never be united; in fact, denominationalism—which is by no means the kind of UNITY that the scriptures speak of—will continue to evoke more denominationalism.
At the same time, your set of questions further leads us to even more questions. For example, why would you expect the church of Christ to change its beliefs in order to join forces with the denominational world, and then NOT expect the denominations to change their doctrines and creeds to “unite” with us?
Well, I’m not trying to take anything away from a fruitful discussion that we should hope will ensue, but I simply would like to remind the readers that your plea for unity is not practical—it will not work unless and until all religious groups realistically can come to a scripture-based set of doctrines, beliefs and teachings.
I would like to ask you to present you proposition to your minister and to your elders, and let us know what they think—are they in partial/full agreement/disagreement with you?
We have the same beliefs. We all believe in Jesus Christ as our risen Savior. What we have that is different is our preferences. We CAN be unified. That doesn't mean we all have to have the same preferences. I attend a church of Christ. I know how it runs. We have our rules, our taboos. But we need to realize these are not rules. They are preferences. We can be unified.
I still would encourage you to show your original post to your minister and elders. If nothing else, please ask them if they agree with your premise, specifically the paragraph that’s bolded, listing a number of selected religious bodies. You may not consider this significant, but it is really significant. Why? Because if the elders in your church teach that the church of Christ can accept doctrines and teachings that even DIFFERING religious bodies cannot agree on, then, they are also wrong and have no business leading your church. There would be NO REASON whatsoever for the church of Christ to even exist. And they might as well serve as “elders” in any of these religious bodies—if they will let them.
We haven’t even started discussing beliefs, doctrines and teachings. But to make a blanket statement that “we have the same beliefs” is very troubling. Perhaps, there are no differences to you because the teaching-learning resources, materials and lessons in your “Bible” classes are derived from various religious faiths.
So, please, do me a favor. If your father has been/is an elder, he is one person to ask about your views on unity. Perhaps, there are other elders who know you personally and can, therefore, give you an honest answer.
There’s so much to discuss concerning “the body of Christ”—which is often misunderstood as it seems to be the case even as we speak.
Unfortunately, I can promise you that we are not disagreeing on "preferences" but over the REMOVAL of important scriptures that Jesus and the Apostles stated were imperative to our salvation, and the ADDITION of worldly behaviors that were condemned by Christ.
I applaud your love for people and your desire that all should be saved. However, reality must be noted and addressed. May I ask you something? Can you please explain how God's scriptural commands are now considered to be preferences? And these "rules" you so lightly dismiss are not man's rules, but God's commands. Am I to ignore his commands and now determine which of his "rules" I no longer need to obey so that I can get along with other religions?
Jesus himself stated these divisions would happen because of Satan and to NOT let our beliefs and traditions be changed by the world. He said he would NOT know us at judgement day if we didn't follow ALL of his Father's commands. He said full unity would not happen because man is sinful and lets his wants get in the way of his beliefs.
I hope you understand that under your unification process, we would throw out 99% of the Bible because we removed all "preferences" and "rules". HOWEVER, that one little verse in Revelation does bother me - something about adding or taking away from God's Word being detrimental to our salvation. Though I applaud you for caring and wanting all to be saved (I share that same wish/prayer), we must not let our desire for something that cannot be to override God's commands.
Jesus said it most clearly in Mat 7:14: "Because strait [is] the gate, and NARROW [is] the way, which leadeth unto LIFE, and FEW there be that FIND it."
I, too, gather that the anonymous poster would have not only the church of Christ, but all faiths, come to some kind of consensus about what to believe in Christianity. That is, in order for everyone to have peace and get along with each other, we would all draw up a list of those things on which all faiths could agree, and that would be our "doctrine." That would "unify" all faiths. That is also ecumenism. What is not said (but is implied nevertheless) is that those scriptural beliefs on which all faiths could not agree would be ignored or discarded for the sake of "unification." But it's already been pointed out that, although such a concept merely unifies us with each other, it is not the scriptural "unity in Christ." To have full unity in Christ, all people must be willing to yield completely to Christ, to follow His commands and the New Testament to the letter, veering neither to the left hand nor to the right, without regard for personal preferences.
Full unity in Christ will not happen as long as there is denominationalism. Full unity in Christ will not happen as long as people believe that there are multiple paths to Christ instead of the ONE PATH--THE OLD PATH--THE NARROW PATH--HIS WAY.
No, we’re making sure first that the initial post is talking about either apples or oranges.
The discussion has barely started. We haven’t yet clearly defined what comprises the body of Christ. To draw the conclusion beforehand that the body of Christ encompasses the denominations (even the “selected” ones as mentioned above) is certainly an opinion. And for you to agree with that conclusion is simply a statement of opinion from you.
The poster—and you have made it clear for us—is correct in pointing out that we lose our opinions. Unfortunately that “losing what” includes your opinion that denominationalism is an attribute or part of the nature of the church.
Identifying the church as a conglomerate of various religious bodies is unscriptural and contrary to how the New Testament ascribes to the one body of Christ (Eph. 4:4)—not hundreds of religious bodies. I Cor. 12:12 states—“For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.” Does it say that the one body has many denominations? No … no … no! Besides, the New Testament is clear about how an individual becomes a member of [or is added to—NOT JOIN] the church (Acts 2:37-38,41,47)
The church belongs to Christ—why “of Christ” and not of some human founder significantly designates its ownership. It is important to note that the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestant churches did not exist in the apostolic age.
No Christian who knows the truth ever thinks that “our opinion is the REAL law.” You said that—not I.
Denominationalism equates diversity in doctrines and beliefs. Neither one is conducive to unity.
You have arrogance confused with confidence. The truth does not equivocate. Therefore, confidence in the truth does not equate arrogance. You might call it arrogance when you cannot argue with the truth or when the truth hurts you.
Unity in Christ will arrive when Christians are able once and for all to put their opinions and preferences aside and yield completely to the commands of Christ as set forth in the New Testament.
Unity in Christ encompasses ONE belief and ONE obedience, not multiple or diverse beliefs with some obeying some portions of the New Testament and others ignoring them.
Unity in Christ encompasses much more than just a bunch of congregations with divergent beliefs who agree to "believe in" Christ and otherwise do as they please. Anyone can give lip service and say they "believe in" Christ. The real test of unity is whether or not these "believers" are able to come together with one spiritual mind and commit themselves to following and obeying Christ and His Word in ALL THINGS whatsoever He commanded us (Matt. 28:20).
Yet when we advocate this complete scriptural unity in Christ, many object that we are merely stating our church of Christ opinions, that we are lifting up our preferences as divine principles.
If people coming together with one mind to submit totally to Christ is not "unity in Christ," if people coming together with one mind to obey Christ and His Word faithfully and completely is not "unity in Christ," then what else could "unity in Christ" possibly mean? Unity means one, not many. "Unity in diversity," that all-too-familiar adage of the Change Movement, is a misnomer, for where there is diversity of spiritual belief, there can be no unity of spiritual belief. That is really talking about apples and oranges or mixing oil with water.
It is an old view that when Israel sinned beyond redemption God ABANDONED them to the musical worship of the STARRY HOST (Acts 7) they requested.
The temple was a SYMBOLIC type: if you will notice the "body" or Holy Place has all of the symbols of the CHURCH: the seven "spirits" or knowledge or light, the table of fellowship and the incense altar. This for the "civilians" was the synagogue or "church in the wilderness" where loud instruments and 'making a joyful noise' was OUTLAWED. Just common sense and common decency: when you enter the SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE and Jesus is our teacher when we teach or preach "that which has been taught" no dummy needs to be told NOT to make "music."
The HEAD is where the thinking takes place and CHRIST is the HEAD of the body, the church.
Now, the body RESTS on two things: first one leg is the SACRIFICE and second is the laver of washing. Both the sacrifice and the priest had to be WASHED in order to enter into the Holy Place ot type of the church of Christ. That is why you must rest on the sacrifice of Christ and be WASHED and given A holy spirit. THEN, God adds you to the church of Christ or the Body of Christ.
Once you are in the BODY you can come boldly before the throne of Grace. The incense altar meaning our PRAYERS looked into the Most Holy Place where Christ the Holy Spirit meets US in the PLACE of our own spirit. The Word of God rested UNDER the mercy seat and that is why you cannot READ it until you are converted to Christ (2 Cor 3).
No musical mockers or singers could ENTER into the body of Christ or Church of Christ EVEN TO CLEAN OUT THE GARBAGE (see Hezekiah's reform). If a singer or musician ENTERED into even the carnal TYPE of the body of Christ he would be instantly killed by the "brethren."
When we as priests come to the incense altar to offer our own PRAYERS or fruit of the lips, there was a HALF HOURS SILENCE. That is why in Revelation they HOLD their harps and do not PLAY them.
That is why Simple Simon Sez in 101aaa --with all of the Bible and all recorded church history--that it is LUCIFER (Zoe) who lusts to get you all PLEASURED (outlawed by Paul in Romans 15 for the ekklesia) to keep you from GIVING HEED to the Word of Christ which is Paul's UNIQUE "worship" word. She is the holy whore in Revelation 18. All of the singers, musicians and "religious teknokrats" will go with her back into hell and John defined HER servants as SORCERERS who deceived the nations and that is why the CANDLES are removed by Jesus Christ. So, when you see these MARKS don't be silly and think that it is YOUR PREFERENCE which Trumps Jesus Christ: it is the sign that Jesus Christ has ALREADY abandoned you to worship the STARS just as he did to the musical idolaters at Mount Sinai.
Sorry. Dr. Crump. There will never be unity even among Churches of Christ as long as there are preachers among us who the very moment someone even tries to discuss some of our differences they jump in and condemn them for even trying. Anyone who tries is branded as a compromiser of the truth. The problem has always been on the inside.
We have nothing to fear from the demoninations, we will tear ourselves apart all by ourselves. The demoninations just sit back and laugh at us. AND IS IT ANY WONDER?????
I am sure you will have a great response and everyone will be told what a terrible false teacher I am.
Was Pippin implying that I was a preacher? Whatever, we need not "fear" the denominations; we just don't need to mimic them, as some church of Christ congregations are doing. Trying to win the approval of the denominations and the world by emulating them through worldly gimmicks and finding the "best" parts of Scripture on which we all can agree won't cut the mustard as far as obedience to Christ is concerned. It's an all or none situation. Neither should we be concerned about who "laughs" at us. People laughed at Christ, and the ungodly will always laugh at the faithful.
There are so many different "Christian faiths" with so many different interpretations, all of which have existed for decades and centuries, that it is logical to see that total unity (obedience to Christ and the New Testament in ALL THINGS whatsoever He has commanded us) is now virtually impossible. For complete and total "unity in Christ" by New Testament standards, all faiths would have to agree to give up their "traditions" and "preferences" and go strictly "by the book," the New Testament. But for many faiths, "rules and regulations," hence any type of authority, are just forms of "legalism." We also must remember that the New Testament did not predict a worldwide "unity in Christ" as the end of time approaches, but instead a falling away from the faith.
Nevertheless, as the new world order approaches, different faiths are going to attempt a "unity of compromise" with each other by skimming the Scriptures and taking that which is the least offensive and onerous to everyone, what is politically correct, what satisfies the "needs" of special interest groups, and write that up as their "doctrine." "Progressive" churches of Christ are not immune from such an approach.
Therefore, each church of Christ congregation must be willing to remain faithful to the Scriptures, to abstain from incorporating worldly, drawing-card gimmicks as the denominations do, to preach the whole Gospel, and to stay on the straight and narrow (albeit unpopular) path of Christ to salvation.
I am more than ready to totally agree with you. But what is still uncertain is how we can come about what you describe as “to have full unity in Christ, all people must be willing to yield completely to Christ, to follow His commands and the New Testament to the letter, veering neither to the left hand nor to the right, without regard for personal preferences”. If you were asked to make practical suggestions on how to achieve this “Scriptural unity of Christ” by "all people" on the grounds of some kind of doctrinal “harmonization”, what would it be?
Thank you!
we as stephens christian ministry kindly ask for prayers from your ministry and as well partnership
please do respond to this through our mail
yours in christ
PASTOR ERIC M OBURE FROM OGEMBO KENYA
How many man- or woman-founded religious bodies in “the body of Christ”?
April 29 2006, 5:39 PM
This is a compiled short list of denominations [so far only] from the Catholic [hmmm, surprised at their divisions?], Orthodox, Lutheran and Reformed Churches.
For those who call for unity with various denominations which claim to be “Christian,” which of these religious bodies would you consider being united with? If not all, which ones would you object to being united with the “body of Christ”?
Armenian Catholic Church
Byzantine Catholic Church
Chaldean Catholic Church
Coptic Catholic Church
Greek Catholic Church
Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
Latin Church
Maronite Catholic Church
Melkite Catholic Church
Ruthenian Catholic Church
Serbian Catholic Church
Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
American Catholic Church in the United States
Ancient Apostolic Communion
Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church
Catholic Apostolic National Church
Catholic Apostolic Church
Catholic Apostolic Church in North America (CACINA)
Catholic Life Church
Celtic Catholic Church
Charismatic Episcopal Church
Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association
Christ Catholic Church
Free Catholic Church
Liberal Catholic Church
Mariavite Church
North American Old Catholic Church
Old Catholic Church
Palmarian Catholic Church
Philippine Independent Church
Polish National Catholic Church
Sedevacantism
True Catholic Church
Assyrian Church of the East
Armenian Apostolic Church
Coptic Orthodox Church
Eritrean Orthodox Church
Orthodox Church of Constantinople
Orthodox Church of Alexandria
Antiochian Orthodox Church
Orthodox Church of Jerusalem
Orthodox Church in America
Greek Old Calendarists
Macedonian Orthodox Church
Russian Old Believers
Western Orthodox Church in America (WOCA)
Utraquists (Hussites)
Taborites (Hussites)
Moravians (Hussites)
Unity of the Brethren (Hussites)
Lollards
Waldensians
American Association of Lutheran Churches (AALC)
Apostolic Lutheran Church of America
Association of Free Lutheran Congregations
Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America
Church of the Lutheran Confession
Concordia Lutheran Conference
Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference
All Saints Lutheran Church
Christ the King Lutheran
Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church "Concord"
Confessional Lutheran Church
Evangelical Lutheran Confessional Church
Evangelical Lutheran Free Church
Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Lutheran Confessional Church
Lutheran Evangelical Christian Church
Evangelical Catholic Church
International Lutheran Council
Christian Evangelical Lutheran Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church
Free Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Gutnius Lutheran Church
Independent Evangelical—Lutheran Church
Laestadian Lutheran Church
Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ - USA
Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Lutheran Ministerium and Synod - USA
Lutheran World Federation
Christian Lutheran Church
Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession
Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession
Evangelical Lutheran Free Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Lutheran Church of Faith and Hope
United Evangelical Lutheran Church
Evangelical Covenant Church (Swedish Covenant)
Evangelical Free Church (E V Free)
Baptist General Conference (Swedish Baptist)
Congregational Federation of Australia
Canadian and American Reformed Churches
Christian Reformed Church in North America
Christian Reformed Churches
Church of Lippe
Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches
Dutch Reformed Church
Evangelical Reformed Church
Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches
Federation of Reformed Churches
Free Reformed Churches of North America
Heritage Reformed Congregations
Orthodox Christian Reformed Church
Protestant Reformed Churches in America
Reformed Christian Church
Reformed Church
Remonstrant Brotherhood
United Church of Christ
United Reformed Church
United Reformed Churches in North America
We haven’t even listed the other hundreds of denominations from the Presbyterian Churches, Mormons, Anabaptists, Brethren, Baptists, Charismatics, Friends (Quakers), Methodists, Holiness Churches, Pentecostalism, Oneness Pentecostalism, Neo-Charismatic Churches, Anglican/Episcopalian, Apostolic Churches, Sabbath-Keeping Christian Churches, etc.
Please let me know if we should continue with the list … in order to illustrate the salient point that the New Testament speaks of only one body of Christ.
No, I did not forget—it was intentional for the following reason:
I agree with you that the church for which Christ died is congregationally autonomous, non-denominational, the kingdom prophesied in the Old Testament, the kingdom spoken of in Matt. 16:18-19 (when Christ said to Peter, “I will build my church … and give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven”). Remember the fulfillment of the prophecy in Acts 1-2, when Peter preached in Jerusalem to those that heard and believed, “Repent and be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven (blotted out) and the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 2:37-38,41; Acts 3:19)?
If you do remember the passages, then the prophesied kingdom or church established by Christ in Jerusalem is the true church that belongs to its founder.
Do you see now why Christ’s church was not included in that list of denominational or religious bodies founded by men and women?
Did you miss the last statement in my previous post when I said “… in order to illustrate the salient point that the New Testament speaks of only one body of Christ”?
What about all of the different types of Churches of Christ?
One cuppers
No Sunday School
Non cooperative
Mainstream
plus many more too numerous to mention
Which of them is the Church Jesus Died for and which are man made? The only type of church that matters are the ones that Jesus includes. It is not up to us to make that decision for Him.
Which “type of congregation” among churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16) are you a member of?
One cuppers—A few congregations may not be that concerned about health issues. If the members of a congregation are of “the same mind and of the same judgment” in this regard, I do not see it as a problem. Besides, multiple cups or one cup is not a spiritual issue at all—unlike as when a Catholic priest is the only one who drinks “all of it.” It’s not surprising that the change agents would use this as an example to justify their faulty assumption that there is “unity in diversity.” That’s hardly the case here because the use of one cup or multiple cups does not alter the command for Christians to commemorate Christ’s sacrifice and death on the cross.
No Sunday School—This type of congregation of the Lord’s church is correct in believing that the gathering of the saints, after all, is all about commemorating the Lord’s death and studying God’s word as a school of the Bible on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7)—and there’s already your “Sunday School” in that gathering or assembly.
The body of Christ still belongs to Christ when it follows His and the apostles’ teachings and is not ashamed to bear the name of its founder—whether or not it assembles in a non-air-conditioned building, in a home or in a gymnasium; whether or not members have been baptized in the lake, in a Presbyterian church building or in the river; etc.
1. These other groups would not have anything to do with you, Since you do not agree with them. While clearly you have no problem with accepting there different beliefs.
2. The argument against Sunday schools went something like: We do not want to be like the Baptist down the street. These people do not believe that Sunday schools are Biblical and they think that those who started having them are wrong. And while they probably did not use the term, the ones who brought them in were Change Agents and trouble makers in their minds.
I think that it is sad that a group of believers who profess to only follow the Word and essentially started as a group to bring unity to all believers by going back to the Bible has itself disintegrated into many many different groups most of which have nothing to do with each other. And many (thank goodness not all) feel that they are the only ones going to heaven.
I think is the foundation of all false dogma. You probably forgot that the church of Christ identified itself as a SCHOOL OF CHRIST as the ekklesia or synagogue is a school of the Bible. T. Campbell identified worship as reading and musing the Word. Church WAS uniquely Sunday School open for all.
You also forgot that the modern Sunday School movement had begun and was taken up by Standard publishing intended that ALL churches buy material from them. The only AUTHORIZED song book for ALL churches must be the Standard version which they somehow pried loose from Alexander Campbell.
The Sunday School Board was NOT under the oversight of the elders. Therefore the ANTI Sunday school people did not STOP doing something or refuse to BEGIN something: they kept on doing what they had always done. It is too bad that the Sunday School Department got stolen by the women who TRY to have 12the graders doing cut out and paste ups. They tried to force my daughter to teach some vapid disjointed material on the Old Testament with cutesy cutsey stuff with a PIG as the central character.
So, did the Sunnday School system produce the epidemic of effeminate preachers and MUSICIANS or what? Could you prove that your kids know more than those who don't have the DIVIDED CLASS system? You probably can't find people who reject teaching the BIBLE: they just don't do it your way. Would you INFILTRATE and steal a happy congregation getting adult level education and drinking out of one cup just to make the MODERN?
Don't doing something because the BAPTISTS did it before is wacko, Jacko: people just make it up.
One cup or one assembly—the church will always exist
May 4 2006, 4:57 AM
William,
Honestly, I do not have any problem with my comments. Neither should anyone who believes or is convinced that the church established by Christ at Pentecost belongs to him. His church is not a denomination from what I know is revealed in the New Testament.
As I have already mentioned, the observance of the Lord’s Supper is the command—which is not violated or altered by the unspecified use of one cup, a pitcher, clear or colored multiple cups, etc. If I were to be in assembly with the “one cuppers,” I would simply oblige—and forget about my own “health hazard” mentality. If these brethren have a fellowship issue, then, that is between them and God—but it certainly does not preclude the church from its existence. Again, this is NOT a doctrinal issue—it is not a “different beliefs” kind of thing because the Lord’s sacrifice and death is still commemorated as commanded.
In regard to the “Sunday School” issue, we must realize that it is not addressed in the New Testament. Neither is the “worship service.” Now, “assembling of ourselves together” or the “assembly” is referenced—an indication that exhortation or teaching or admonishing one another is the purpose. That gathering clearly suggests that it is a Bible school in itself, regardless of whether or not some nearby church does it. “No Sunday School” or “Sunday School” only on Sunday limits the study of the Bible. Acts 17:10-11 encourages Christians to search the scriptures DAILY as the Bereans did in the first century.
Again, it is a faulty assumption that because there are dissenting members or congregations … that the church of our Lord does not or should not exist. I feel that most of the congregations of “the group” you were alluding to are united because of the common agreement on the doctrine of salvation in the blood of the Lamb offered to mankind through God’s love, grace and mercy. “They are the only ones going to heaven”? Who says and believes that? Or, is that only an accusation by the antagonists?
RE: How many man- or woman-founded religious bodies in “the body of Christ”?
November 8 2006, 12:36 PM
Dear Donnie,
Please, if you can, send me “the list” or post it as a reply to this request. I would be more than glad if you can also include references (Books, journals, websites…).
Thank you in advance!
Which of the many man- or woman-founded religious bodies… [Continued]
May 6 2006, 12:33 PM
In the previous list of denominations, we included the divisions among the Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran and Reformed Churches.
The following additional list of denominations [so far only] includes religious divisions from the Presbyterian, Mormon, Anabaptist, Brethren and Baptist Churches.
For those who call for unity with various denominations which claim to be “Christian,” which of these religious bodies would you consider being united with? If not all, which ones would you object to being united with the “body of Christ”?
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Bible Presbyterian Church
Church of Scotland
Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches
Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Evangelical Presbyterian Church
First Presbyterian Church
Free Church of Scotland
Free Church of Scotland Continuing
Free Presbyterian Church
Korean Presbyterian Church in America
Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Presbyterian Church in America
Presbyterian Church USA
Presbyterian Reformed Church
Reformed Presbyterian Church
Reformed Presbyterian Church - Covenanted
Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America
Reformed Presbytery in North America
United Free Church of Scotland
Uniting Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa
Westminster Presbyterian Church
China Christian Council
Church of Bangladesh
Church of Pakistan
Church of North India
Syrian Marthoma Church in India
Church of South India
Evangelical Church in Germany
Protestant Church in the Netherlands from 1 May 2004
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ
Uniting Church in Australia
United Church in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)
Beachy Amish
Nebraska Amish
Old Order Amish
Swartzendruber Amish
Bruderhof Communities
Alliance of Mennonite Evangelical Congregations
Anabaptist Association of Australia and New Zealand
Brethren in Christ
Chortitzer Mennonite Conference
Church of God in Christ, Mennonite (aka Holdeman Mennonites)
Conservative Mennonite Conference
Evangelical Mennonite Church
Evangelical Mennonite Conference
Evangelical Mennonite Mission Conference
Fellowship of Evangelical Bible Churches (formerly Evangelical Mennonite Brethren)
Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches
Japan Mennonite Brethren Conference
US Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches
Mennonite Church USA
Mennonite World Conference
Swiss Mennonite Conference
Church of the United Brethren in Christ
Plymouth Brethren
River Brethren
Brethren in Christ Church
Old Order River Brethren
United Zion Church
Schwarzenau Brethren
Church of the Brethren
Conservative Grace Brethren Churches, International
Dunkard Brethren
Ephrata Cloister
Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches
Old German Baptist Brethren
Old Order German Baptist Brethren
The Brethren Church (Ashland Brethren)
Social Brethren
[NOTE: This is not an attempt to single out the Baptist Churches by identifying individual countries. According to sources: “All Baptist associations are congregationalist affiliations for the purpose of cooperation, in which each local church is governmentally independent.”]
Alliance of Baptists
American Baptist Association
American Baptist Churches USA
Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland
Association of Grace Baptist Churches
Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
Association of Regular Baptist Churches
Baptist Bible Fellowship International
Baptist Conference of the Philippines
Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec
Baptist Convention of Western Cuba
Baptist General Conference
Baptist General Conference of Canada
Baptist General Convention of Texas
Baptist Missionary Association of America
Baptist Union of Australia
Baptist Union of Great Britain
Baptist Union of New Zealand
Baptist Union of Scotland
Baptist Union of Western Canada
Baptist World Alliance
Bible Baptist
Canadian Baptist Ministries
Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists
Central Baptist Association
Central Canada Baptist Conference
Christian Unity Baptist Association
Colored Primitive Baptists
Conservative Baptist Association
Conservative Baptist Association of America
Conservative Baptists
Continental Baptist Churches
Convención Nacional Bautista de Mexico
Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches
Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
European Baptist Convention
European Baptist Federation
Evangelical Baptist Mission of South Haiti
Evangelical Free Baptist Church
Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada
Free Will Baptist Church
Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America
General Association of Baptists
General Association of General Baptists
General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
General Six-Principle Baptists
Global Independent Baptist Fellowship
Grace Baptist Assembly
Independent Baptists
Independent Baptist Church of America
Independent Baptist Fellowship International
Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America
Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association
Landmark Baptist Church
Liberty Baptist Fellowship
Myanmar Baptist Convention
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A.
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship
New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches
North American Baptist Conference
Norwegian Baptist Union
Old Baptist Union
Old Regular Baptists
Old Time Missionary Baptists
Primitive Baptists
Progressive Baptists
Progressive National Baptist Convention
Reformed Baptists
Regular Baptist Churches, General Association of
Regular Baptists
Separate Baptists
Separate Baptists in Christ
Seventh Day Baptists
Southeast Conservative Baptists
Southern Baptist Convention
Southern Baptists of Texas
Sovereign Grace Baptists
Strict Baptists
Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
Union D'Eglises Baptistes Francaises Au Canada
United American Free Will Baptist Church
United American Free Will Baptist Conference
United Baptist Convention of the Atlantic Provinces
United Baptists
United Free Will Baptist
Unregistered Baptist Fellowship
World Baptist Alliance
World Baptist Fellowship
[To be continued…]
There are still the following major religious denominations and their divisions not yet listed:
Charismatics
Friends (Quakers) and Their Offshoots
Methodists
Pietists and Holiness Churches
Pentecostalism
Oneness Pentecostalism
Neo-charismatic churches
Other movement churches
Anglican/Episcopal Church
Sabbath Keeping Christian Churches
Again, which one or ones of these would the change agents unite with the “body of Christ.” Conversely, and better yet, based on the desires and goals of the change agents to disband the body of Christ in order to achieve “unity” [from their perspectives, i.e.], which one (or ones) of the above should Christ’s church unite with? The biggest question is HOW can Christ’s church in unity with another religious body or other religious bodies be ACHIEVED? Should it be a selective process (as in, which denominations are desirable)? Is it achievable? Is it insane?
Which of the many man- or woman-founded religious bodies… [Continued]
May 13 2006, 8:27 PM
LIST NO. 3:
In the other preceding lists of denominations, we included the divisions among the Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Reformed, Presbyterian, Brethren, and Baptist Churches.
This third list includes the Methodist, Anglican/Episcopalian, Seventh-Day Adventist Churches.
Also listed are from these groups: Charismatic, Holiness, Pentecostal, Oneness Pentecostal, Neo-Charismatic Churches which have a combined worldwide membership larger than any of the Protestant Churches.
Ready?
African Methodist Episcopal Church
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
Bible Methodist Church
Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
Congregational Methodist Church
Church of the Nazarene
Evangelical Church
Evangelical Methodist Church
Free Methodist Church
Fellowship of Independent Methodist Churches
Fundamental Methodist Conference, Inc.
Independent Methodist Church
Iglesia Metodista de México, Sitio Oficial
Primitive Methodist Church
Salvation Army
United Methodist Church
Wesleyan Church
Wesleyan Reform Union
Anglican Communion
Church in Wales
Church of England
Church of Ireland
Church of the Province of ______________
Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East
Episcopal Church in the United States of America
Episcopal Church of _______________
Iglesia Anglicana de la Region Central America
Iglesia Anglicana del Cono Sud de las Americas
Igreja Episcopal Anglicana do Brasil
Kerala Christian Assembly (Canada) [1]
Lusitanian Church of Portugal
Philippine Episcopal Church
Scottish Episcopal Church
Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church
Independent Anglican Churches
Continuing Anglican Movement Churches
African Orthodox Church
African Anglican Orthodox Church Worldwide
American Anglican Church
Anglican Catholic Church
Anglican Church in America
Anglican Church International Communion
Anglican Mission in America
Anglican Orthodox Church
Anglican Province of America
Anglican Province of Christ the King
Christian Episcopal Church
Church of England (Continuing)
Church of England in South Africa
Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches
Episcopal Missionary Church
Free Church of England
Free Protestant Episcopal Church
Reformed Episcopal Church
Southern Episcopal Church
United Episcopal Church
Catholic Apostolic Church
Restored Apostolic Mission Church
New Apostolic Church
United Apostolic Church
General Church of the New Jerusalem
The Lord's New Church which is Nova Hierosolyma
General Conference of the New Church (England)
Swedenborgian Church of North America formerly General Convention of the New Jerusalem (USA)
The New Church in Australia
The Faith Mission
Friends (Quakers) and Their Offshoots
Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
Friends General Conference
Friends United Meeting
Evangelical Friends International
United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing (Shakers)
Messianic Judaism
Chosen People Ministries
Jews for Jesus
Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations
The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA), founded in 1915, is the largest association of Messianic Jews in the world
Messianic Bureau International (MBI)
Sabbath Keeping Christian Churches
— Sunday Adventists
Advent Christian Church
Church of God General Conference (Abrahamic Faith)
Church of the Blessed Hope (aka Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith)
Primitive Advent Christian Church
— Seventh Day Adventists
Branch Davidians
Branch Seventh Day Adventists
Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church
Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist Association
General Association of Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists
People's Christian Church
Seventh-Day Adventist Church
Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement
International Missionary Society of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church Reform Movement
Sabbath Rest Advent Church
Promise Adventist Church - Brazilian Pentecostal Adventists
The Registry
— Sabbath Keeping Churches, Non Adventist
Assembly of God in Christ Jesus
Associated Churches, Inc.
Associates for Scriptural Knowledge
Biblical Church of God
Body of Christ Church of God
Church of God (Anadarko)
Church of God (Jesus Christ the Head) (UNICO)
Church of God (O'Brien)
Church of God (Philadelphia Era)
Church of God (Sabbatarian)
Church of God (Seventh Day, Salem, West Virginia)
Church of God Evangelical Association
Church of God's Truth
Church of the Great God
Congregation of God, Seventh Day
Congregation of God
Congregation of Yah
Foundation for Biblical Research
Foundation of Life Fellowship
General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day)
General Council of the Churches of God
Global Church of God
Harmony of Life Fellowship
International Church of God (ICG)
Philadelphia Church of God
Restoration Church of God
Seventh-Day Church of God
The Eternal Church of God
The Pure Truth
Triumph Prophetic Ministries (Church of God)
Twentieth Century Church of God (Pennsylvania)
Twentieth Century Church of God
United Biblical Church of God
United Church of God
United Seventh-Day Brethren
Universal Church of God
World Insight International
Worldwide Church of God
— Bible Student Groups
Back to the Bible Way
Christian Believers Conference
Christian Bible Students Association
Christian Millenial Fellowship
Christian Prophets of Jehovah
Dawn Bible Students Association
Epiphany Bible Students Association
Independent Bible Students
Laodicean Home Missionary Movement
Layman's Home Missionary Movement
Lord Our Righteousness (Life Support)
Pastoral Bible Institute
Philanthropic Assembly
— Sacred Name Groups
Assemblies of YHWHHOSHUA
Assemblies of Yah
Assemblies of Yahvah
Assembly of Yahweh (Easton Rapids, MI)
Assemblies of Yahweh (Bethel, PA)
Assemblies of the Called Out Ones of Yah
Bible Study Association
Church of God (Jerusalem)
House of Yahweh (Abilene, Texas)
House of Yahweh (Odessa, Texas)
Missionary Dispensary Bible Research
New Life Fellowship
Scripture Research Association
Workers Together with Elohim
Yahweh's Assembly of Messiah
— Anglo-Israelism
Anglo-Saxon Federation of America
British-Israel-World Federation (Canada), Inc.
Calvary Fellowship, Inc.
Christian Conservative Churches of America
Church of Jesus Christ-Christian (Aryan Nations)
Kingdom Identity Ministries
LaPorte Church of Christ
Christian Research
Church of Israel
Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord
Evangelical Church of Christ / Commonwealth Covenant Church (New Zealand)
House of Prayer for All People
Ministry of Christ Church
National Association of Kingdom Evangelicals
New Christian Crusade Church
Prophetic Herald Ministry
Remnant of Israel
Tabernacle of the Phineas Priesthood
Christian Israelite Church
Israelite House of David
Israelite House of David as Reorganized by Mary Purnell
Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly
Church of the East and Abroad
— Other Adventists
Christadelphians
Christian Nations - Eagle Warriors
Church of God (Reinersten)
Kingdom of God on Earth Within Man
Remnant Church
Restored Israel of Yahweh
Shiloh True Light Church of Christ
Star of Truth Foundation
True Church
church of god world mission society
Gnosticism, Nontrinitarian, New Thought, Christian mystery religion
Ecclesia Gnostica
Bogomils (extinct)
Borborites (extinct)
Carpocratians (extinct)
Cathars (extinct)
Manichaeism (extinct)
American Unitarian Conference
Branhamism
Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
Doukhobors
Christadelphians
Home Ecclesia Association
Iglesia ni Cristo
Magi Network
Makuya
Molokan
Unification Church
Unitarian Christian Association
Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship
United Pentecostal Church International
Christian anarchism
Divine Science
Religious Science
Unity Church
Esoteric Christianity
The Rosicrucian Fellowship
Spiritism (regarded as an auxiliary doctrine)
Charismatics, Pietists and Holiness Churches, Pentecostalism, Oneness Pentecostalism, Neo-charismatic churches, Other movement churches
New Frontiers
Vineyard Movement
Sovereign Grace Ministries
Charismatic Episcopal Church
Full Gospel
Apostolic Christian Church
Bible Fellowship Church
Christian & Missionary Alliance
Christian's Missionary Church
Church of Christ (Holiness) U.S.A.
Church of God (Anderson)
Church of God (Guthrie, Oklahoma)
Church of God (Holiness)
Churches of God General Conference (Winebrenner)
Church of the Nazarene
Evangelical Covenant Church
Missionary Church
United Christian Church
Abundant Life Worship Centers
Apostolic Assemblies of Christ
Apostolic Church of Pentecost of Canada
Apostolic Faith Church
Assemblies of God
Assembly of Pentecostal Churches of Jesus Christ
Calvary Holiness Association
Charismatic Episcopal Church
Christian City Churches
Christ Gospel Churches International
Christian Church of North America
Christian Congregation of Brazil
Christian Outreach Centre
Christian Revival Crusade
Church of God (Charleston, Tennessee)
Church of God (Chattanooga)
Church of God (Cleveland)
Church of God (Huntsville, Alabama)
Church of God (Jerusalem Acres)
Church of God for All Nations
Church of God by Faith
Church of God, House of Prayer
Church of God in Christ
Church of God Mountain Assembly
Church of God of Prophecy
Church of God with Signs Following
Church of God of the Union Assembly
Church of the Little Children of Jesus Christ
Congregational Holiness Church
CRC Churches International
Destiny Church
Elim Fellowship
Elim Pentecostal Church
Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas
God is Love Pentecostal Church
Holiness Baptist Association
Independent Assemblies of God, International
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
International Pentecostal Church of Christ
International Pentecostal Holiness Church
Ministers Fellowship International
New Life Churches
Open Bible Standard Churches (association of autonomous churches)
Pentecostal Mission
Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
Pentecostal Assemblies of Newfoundland
Pentecostal Church of God
Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church
Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America
Pentecostal Churches of the Apostolic Faith
Pentecostal World Conference
Redeemed Christian Church of God
The Church of God (Jerusalem Acres)
The Church of God for All Nations
The Fellowship (FGFCMI)
United Gospel Tabernacles
United Holy Church of America
United Pentecostal Churches of Christ
Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus
Apostolic Brethren
Apostolic Church of the Faith in Jesus Christ
Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God
Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ
Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ
Church of Jesus Christ of Prophecy
Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
International Church of Jesus Christ
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
Potter's House Christian Fellowship
United Pentecostal Church
Kimbanguist Church
The Church of the Lord (Aladura)
Zion Christian Church
True Jesus Church,
Church Assembly Hall
New Birth Movement
Montagnard Evangelical Church
Bible Christian Mission
Filadelfia Fellowship
New Life Fellowship
New Life Outreach
Reaching Indians Ministries
Believers' Churches in India
Rajasthan Bible Institute
Calvary Chapel
Church of Christ, Instrumental (aka Kelleyites)
Children of God
Christian City Church (aka "CCC" or "C3i")
City Harvest Church
Evangelical Covenant Church of America ("Swedish Evangelical Mission Covenant")
Evangelical Free Church of America
Grace Movement Churches
Hope Church Singapore
Fellowship of Fundamental Bible Churches
Great Commission Association
Indian Shakers
New Frontiers (formerly New Frontiers International)
Metropolitan Community Churches
Schwenkfelder Church
Two by Two (aka The Truth, The Way) and its offshoot Cooneyites
Vineyard Movement
Charismatic Episcopal Church
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Church of Christ, Scientist
Jehovah's Witnesses
New Age: The Christian Community
Restoration Movement:
Disciples of Christ
Christian Church
Churches of Christ
International Churches of Christ (Boston Movement)
Although churches of Christ are included in the list above [as the “religious world” thinks that it is a religious body, just another denomination], contrary to the apostates and change agents’ suggestion that the church of Christ is divided—and is, therefore, not any different from others—it is noteworthy that statistical data “out there” does NOT separately list “one cuppers” from “no Sunday School” congregations, etc. We must acknowledge the significance of it all.
Do you see why the proponents of the Change Movement among churches of Christ would have you convinced that ecumenism is the way to go—i.e., churches of Christ should just openly fellowship with others regardless of doctrine? How absurd and impractical!
The change agents who conveniently call for unity with various denominations which claim to be “Christian” would not be able to respond to the big questions—which of these religious bodies would you consider the church of Christ being united with?
If the response is “with all of the above,” then, it ain’t gonna happen.
If the response is “NOT with all of the above”—which means being “selective”—which ones would the change agents object to being united with the “body of Christ”? And how would they determine the methodology for choosing? Ecumenism among selected churches has been attempted many times before. It has NEVER worked.
Isn’t it about time for the change movers to leave the church alone? Otherwise, the change agents—those who sow discord in the brotherhood—should start their own from scratch.
I didn’t bother to count the number of divided religious bodies listed above, even though several denominations identified with their localities (country, province, regions, continent, etc.) have already been removed.
Would someone care to count the number of religions from the three (3) sets of unordered list of churches, and post the total below?
“A TIME TO UNITE, A TIME TO SEPARATE” (by John Waddey)
May 21 2006, 9:44 AM
A TIME TO UNITE, A TIME TO SEPARATE
Solomon reminds us there is time for everything (Eccle. 3:1). These verses are not only appropriate for weddings and funeral, but also for situations such as presently confront our brotherhood.
Without doubt heaven's wish is that all Christians stand united in Christ (John 17:21). When we have a common salvation, a common faith and a common goal, we must strive to maintain that unity (Eph. 4:3).
It is certainly to our benefit to be united as a people. A united church is stronger and more effective than a divided church. United we can devote our full time and energy to productive and constructive work for the Master. Standing together we mute many of the accusations of the Evil One.
Given all the above, the fact is there are times and situations that demand separation.
We cannot be united with folks who themselves are not united with Christ. We are united with Christ when immersed with him in the likeness of his death (Rom. 6:3-5).
We cannot be united with those who walk disorderly and not according to the apostolic traditions (II Thess. 3:6).
We cannot be united with those who cause divisions and occasions of stumbling contrary to the doctrine which we have learned from the apostles of Christ. In fact we are instructed to turn away from them (Rom. 16:17).
We cannot be united with those are living ungodly lives. Paul specifically says, "Put away the wicked man from among yourselves" (I Cor. 5:13).
We cannot be united with those of our brethren who go onward and abide not in the teaching of Christ. To do so is to partake in their evil works (II John 9-11).
We cannot be united with those whose approach to worship and the message of Christ is patently contrary to what we know to be God's Truth. Amos asked, "Shall two walk together, unless they have agreed?" (Amos 3:3).
We cannot continue in unity and fellowship with those whose false teaching is like leaven that is threatening to corrupt the whole body of Christ. Paul says to purge out the old leaven (I Cor. 5:6-7).
We cannot be united with those who are working to destroy the very church to which we have been added (Acts 2:47); for which we have labored and sacrificed; which we believe to be Christ's sacred body and kingdom on earth. To be united and on cordial terms with the enemies of the church of Christ is to be unfaithful to Christ the head of the church.
All of this should come as no surprise to those who know God's Word. Jesus himself said He came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother (Matt. 10:34). The meaning being that loyalty to him and his will must take precedence over that to family and relatives. One becomes a Christian, the other does not. One is faithful to Christ the other is unfaithful. Such situations will always cause separations and division. We should be ready and eager to have unity and fellowship with any man or woman who is obedient to the teaching of Christ. But when a man or a school or a congregation sets about to change the doctrine and the worship ordained by Christ, to change the very nature of Christ's church, then our loyalty to our Savior and King demands that we follow him even if it means leaving the others behind.
One of Satan's deceptive tricks is to press the faithful Christian to continue in fellowship with flagrant error to preserve unity. We must not fall for that deception. Those who compromise with error are often swallowed up by the error.
It is obvious that many brethren live such insulated lives that they do not know what is transpiring in our far-flung brotherhood. Some have heard rumors about certain preachers, congregations or schools abandoning the ancient faith. The following quotes from a Bro. GH, a vocal change agent, will help folks see the danger confronting us:
“The church of the 60’s and 70’s is irrelevant to today’s world. What most ‘change advocates’ want to change is not the gospel, but HOW we do what we do.”
“Jesus was many things including a change agent. The prophets were change agents. Such people are always demonized by the protectors of the status quo, then killed by the protectors of the status quo.”
“I teach people that baptism is part of their obedience to God, but I would accept a person into fellowship who claimed ‘Jesus as Lord’ even if he/she had not been immersed. My job is to accept those who claim Jesus and are not open and obviously a threat to the flock. I’ll let God ‘sort it all out.’”
“… if I teach that a woman may instruct a class of men and women, does that mean I am a ‘false teacher’ who should not be fellowshiped?”
“Am I not in Jesus just as you?”
“You refer to our historical record as a church. You are right to do so, for that history allows a clear view of a corpse that once was a church that was tolerant and open.”
“Unity is more important than the instrument.”
Can you imagine the spiritual state of the church where Bro. GH preaches? Sad, sad!
“I teach people that baptism is part of their obedience to God, but I would accept a person into fellowship who claimed ‘Jesus as Lord’ even if he/she had not been immersed. My job is to accept those who claim Jesus and are not open and obviously a threat to the flock. I’ll let God ‘sort it all out.’”
Interesting thought from Mr. GH. I wonder if he believes that man is forgiven of his sins, by God, when he is baptized (immersed) into Christ. If so, is he content to allow this person to be lost, to spend eternity in hell because their sins were not forgiven? It seems a high price to pay in order to “keep the peace”, and all for the sake of unity in the “the flock”. Especially a high price for the one who is going to hell.
Now, Is baptism required for obedience to God? It seems Mr. GH believes so. And, if so, this hypothetical person who claims to ”know Jesus” but does not obey Him would clearly be a liar. I John 2:4 The only other option is that baptism is not in fact required for obedience, and for the forgiveness of sin, and that may very well be the true doctrinal goal behind many of those that want to accept every one that claims Jesus.
He may view his job as accepting those who “claim Jesus” regardless of their obedience to Him, but the Bible tells us not to judge. (Judge falsely) We would do well to remember that false judgment is not only condemning the innocent but also releasing the guilty.
All of this talk of unity. What about the lost? There is more at stake here then “why can’t we all just get along”. There are souls! Are we willing to send them down the river in order to have a group hug?
-----Original Message----- From: fortify_your_faith@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 1:20 PM To: fortify_your_faith@yahoogroups.com Subject: [fortify your faith] A Lesson to Fortify Your Faith
Dear Fellow Christian: I urge you to take time to read the lesson below. It speaks to serious challenges facing the church of our generation. If you find it helpful and above all, biblical, I hope you will forward it to other Christians in your email address book.
By cooperating together we can have a positive, constructive influence on our fellow Christians.
John Waddey
__________________________________
PIERCING QUESTIONS ON UNITY
It is the desire of God that disciples of Christ be united in the bond of peace (Eph. 4:3). We are expected to work to that end! A great deal is spoken and written about unity and the sin of division , but the careful student soon discovers that there are other dimensions to the subject that are also important.
Paul asked the Corinthian brethren several pointed questions about unity and fellowship:
