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“New Wineskins” (Organ); LU, ACU, Pepperdine (Engines) of Change

May 27 2006 at 4:16 PM
Donnie Cruz  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
from IP address

Source: “Christianity: Then and Now” (Vol. 5, No. 10, June 1, 2006)

Lipscomb University’s Contribution to the Change Movement

From a recent edition of New Wineskins (organ of the Change Movement) we offer the following lines from Dr. Gary Holloway, theologian, who teaches Spiritual Formation at David Lipscomb University.

    “My own experience teaching in a university where 70% of the students are from a cappella Churches of Christ confirms this cultural shift away from the importance of denominational labels to a deep concern for relational and spiritual union. It is not unusual in a typical week for our students to attend a Monday night instrumental praise worship at a local Church of Christ, a Tuesday night ecumenical teaching session at First Baptist downtown, Wednesday night church at a fairly traditional Church of Christ, and Thursday night Taize worship at a Presbyterian church—all before going home on the weekend to their parents’ Church of Christ where many think we are the only Christians.” (For the full text of his article see and read Holloway’s article “Circle of Fire: Barton Stone and a Spiritual Model of Unity.”)

These Christian parents, whose faith the doctor scorns, are paying to send….

[To be continued….]

John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now


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Donnie Cruz
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The Engines Driving the Change Movement”

May 27 2006, 4:21 PM 

Continued from:


Lipscomb University’s Contribution to the Change Movement

These Christian parents, whose faith the doctor scorns, are paying to send their childen to a Christian School expecting that their faith will be strengthened and their usefulness to the church will be developed. Although his salary is paid by such folks, Bro. Holloway is laboring to undermine the faith of his students and prepare them for acceptance of denominationalism. Lipscomb, Abilene and Pepperdine are the engines driving the change movement. What will be your response? JWH

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Ken Sublett
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LED: didn't DRIFT to musicating.

May 27 2006, 6:55 PM 

Exodus Connecticut Christian Chronicle

When Pauls and his wife, Debbie, now Stamford's involvement minister, arrived in 1978, just one couple from the original Exodus families remained. That couple later moved away.

Church leaders are hopeful that many of the people who launched the work in Stamford will return for the homecoming.

But the ministers and elders acknowledge that some founding members might not approve of the direction the congregation has taken.

In some ways, the church has not changed: The singing remains a cappella. The Lord's Supper is observed weekly. The importance of baptism is stressed.

But in other ways, significant change has occurred: After what church leaders described as an exhaustive, years-long biblical study, the congregation removed all restrictions on women's leadership roles in the church.

Women in the congregation now serve as deacons and are eligible to serve as elders. Women serve communion, lead public prayers, read Scriptures and occasionally preach. "We do not restrict roles or assign privilege or status on the basis of birth," explains a statement on the church Web site,

In a 46-page booklet, "Sons and Daughters: Hearing Women's Voices at the Stamford Church of Christ," Dale Pauls refers to Scriptures often used to limit women's roles. But he makes the case that the traditional interpretation fails to take into account the historical context.

Well, DARN, didn't ALL of the Bible get written in a HISTORICAL CONTEXT? I am amazed that preacherlings who have no LEADERSHIP role in the local congregation got VIOLATED because of a change of CULTURE (Darn, there goes that culture a-changing on us again). Paul OUTLAWED the collection plate but where did we GET THAT funding for an unlawful CHANGE AGENT? Paul began with Genesis in his description of EVE (Zoe) in a context which proves that it is NATURE and not oozing history Paul was speaking of. Miriam was probably Paul's other "prototypical usurping woman." So, Biblical ignorance with a determined effort to SOW DISCORD and steal a peaceable church of Christ will never be forgiven on the day of judgment.

"It's a church that made a significant change in an area that some people consider to be a fellowship issue almost," Pauls said. "From my view and interpretation of Scripture, I think it's the same church. But that's not a view that would be shared by everybody."


Jim Pounders, alumni association director at Lipscomb University in Nashville, Tenn., helped organize the exodus to Stamford and served as the first preacher. The University church in Tuscaloosa, Ala., oversaw the effort.

Pounders returned to worship at Stamford in 2001 on the Sunday before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

    "What is thrilling to us is that the church has become what we dreamed that it would be," said Pounders, praising the congregation's enthusiasm and spiritual zeal.

    Women reading Scripture and waiting on the Lord's table made Pounders "a little uncomfortable."

    "But we also know the church did an extensive study of that practice before employing it in their worship," he said. "So we respect their study and their autonomy."
Assuredly Jim knows enough that you cannot STUDY enough to TRUMP the clear teachings of the Bible held for most of these 2,000 years. When women were made "deaconesses" as NUNS or WIDOWS IN DEED over 60 they had to be removed when they went into leadership roles. When people do such STUDIES they always reach the conclusion they INTENDED to reach "spite of hell" and massive discord.

Sylvia Smith, a Stamford deacon, first heard about the Exodus Movement in 1966 at a Wednesday night service in Birmingham, Ala. The next day, she learned her husband's company was transferring him to White Plains, N.Y., 15 miles west of Stamford. They decided to move to Stamford. Looking back, Smith said she has no doubt that God played a role in the timing.

Christian Chronicle published the original EXODUS in 1965

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Ken Sublett
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LU, Christian Chronicle and the Women's Thingy.

May 28 2006, 11:18 AM 

This topic was birthed on another forum by a defender of just about anything ANTI-church of Christ. Specificially, the role of women as musicators, deacons, elders and preachers.

Dale Pauls has done the usual procedure: they held a very long restudy of the women's role. Guess what? They reached the same conclusion the preacher had in his agenda. It is like the old "let't take a survey and VOTE on whether we believe instrumental music is ok." To ask the question is to answer it.

LU has hired an expert in Conflict Resolution which means Change Facilitation. Jim Pounders from LU seems to like what his old exodus work has become--minus all of the exodusers.

I have begun a review of Dale Pauls usual approach. He uses all of the usual ploys such as the holy kiss, foot washing and other social practices NEVER part of the Assembly on one side to TRUMP the role of women which is SPECIFICIALLY defined by Paul FOR the assembly. Since, we had to "get over it" concerning slavery we need to "get over it" concerning women's roles in "church."

The only way you can make the great leap is to DENY that Paul was inspired and that he was a culture creature.

This is a short WORK IN PROGRESS review, and I will review all of his false teachings which the Christian Chronicle thought worth featuring and a LU person affirms. It seems that dummy Paul had access to the olden testament such as Isaiah 3 which prophesies what Paul OUTLAWED concerning women.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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