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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

RE: Mayberry

June 10 2006, 10:16 AM 

Mark F., thank you for at least identifying yourself with your first name and last initial (and for reopening this can of worms). I believe that it is a mistake to use secular material, material that was never originally designed to teach Christian evangelism or Christian spiritual growth, material like TAGS and other classic TV shows, and try to milk Christian evangelism or Christian spiritual growth out of them. When we start using secular material as an adjunct to or as a complement to the Bible, then there may eventually come the day when we actually use that material to replace the Bible. Naturally, people will say, "No, that will never happen." But in the words of Paul Newman's character, con-man Ben Quick, in the motion picture The Long, Hot Summer, "Never say 'never!'" (This was the response that Quick gave to gorgeous Clara Varner when she vowed that she would "never" accept him [but she eventually did, nonetheless]. Now some people just might see some kind of "Christian" content or "spiritual growth" in that secular medium for teaching Sunday school, but frankly, I'd just move to a Better Source.)

Many churches (churches of Christ as well as the denominations) have already incorporated secular agenda into worship, such as rock bands that play the raucous music of the world, and have given their "worship centers" the look and feel of performing arts centers, all to please man's worldly cravings for showbizz glitter. In many churches, worship "services" have become essentialy nothing but pop musical revues, and sermons have become nothing but a venue for comic routines, amusing anecdotes, warm-fuzzy-feel-good stories, and motivational speeches, but with little truly expository, biblical content. And classic TV, with its parallels of comedy, amusing anecdotes, warm-fuzzy-feel-good stories, and sometime-motivational content, could never replace the Bible? Wise up! It could happen much sooner than we think. Therefore, the last thing that Sunday schools need is a secular agenda added in the form of classic TV.

People are only fooling and deluding themselves if they really think that principles unique to Christianity and to Christian spiritual growth can be extracted from non-Christian, secular media like classic TV. And people think that I tilt at windmills! Those who are new to Christianity need to cut their teeth on the milk of the Gospel as found in the New Testament, not some very faint whisp of it that people imagine they see in secular media like TAGS and classic TV. And there's no better place to learn about spiritual growth than the examples and plan put forth in the New Testament.

Discerning people will recognize that it is far wiser to cut to the chase and go directly to the New Testament, the first, best, most logical, and the only truly authoritative source for teaching Christian principles, be they evangelism or spiritual growth. It is illogical to settle for less than the very best--the New Testament.

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Mark F
(Login markfl)

Illustrations in general

June 10 2006, 7:38 PM 


I want to zoom out and take this topic to the broader view. Let's talk about illustrations in general.

I often have secular, work related things that happen during the week and then, while I am studying will think, "Hey, what happened there is what the Bible is talking about here." Sometimes it is a profound thing, sometimes it is nothing more than a moral lesson.

Like I said, I could use many a military story to illustrate a biblical principle. The military story, on it's own, is worthless. But when I use it to illustrate a biblical principle, always ending with the biblical principle, I think the story serves good.


I am afraid of heights... to the point that I could not climb a ladder over about 10 feet even if my life depended on it. Enclosed elevators make me feel funny. My unrealistic fear of falling, and an oversensative equilibrium keeps me earthbound.

This fear of heights has taught me a great deal about the slippery slope argument.

I think we can paralyze ourselves and never climb the ladder because we have some unrational fear.

On the other hand, there are those that want to shimmy up the ladder without even checking to make sure the bolts are holding it in the ground.

However, what we should do is measure the risk and ensure that we have the right safety equipment, that the ladder is secure, and up the ladder we should go.

Just some thoughts...

This is the kind of discussion I would hope to find on this forum, discussions that lead to mutual growth.

In Christ,

Mark F.

P.S. Because of my military afiliation and some paranoia, I do not want to disclose my full name. I hope y'all undertand.

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Palm Beach Lakes church of Christ

There is nothing wrong with using TAGS in Bible Class

July 8 2006, 3:12 PM 

What is the bottom line? The bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with using TAGS in Bible class. That method is a great method to get people interested in learning the Bible. If the method works, then use it.

It might not get too deep in the meat but that is okay. We all need to review the milk.

I just watched the movie "Footloose". The "christians" in that movie and your group in the Church of Christ makes being a Christian real boring and dull. Yes, it is okay to have fun. I know the truth and the truth made me free. You can also learn the truth but only if you want to learn the truth. The truth will make you free.

Lets's dance!

Palm Beach Lakes Church of Christ
West Palm Beach, Florida


Reminder from Poster:

“My name is Tom, I do not represent Palm Beach Lakes Church of Christ and the elders and preachers at Palm Beach Lakes Church of Christ are not in agreement with me. I am sorry about the screen name. ... To let you know where I am coming from. I am coming from the other side of the Church of Christ. ... I am concerned about the legalistic patternism in PBLCOC." [April 30 2006, 1:35 AM]

This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address on Jul 12, 2006 2:49 AM

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

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At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

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Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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