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v-jo
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"The amount isn't that significant. He's a paid minister."

August 6 2006, 10:16 PM 

Donnie - The money is not significant. The amount isn't that significant. He's a paid minister. Get over it.

What about the part that he's your brother? YOU keep forgetting that part. You talk about him with jealousy, bitterness, anger and hatred in your heart. You slander him openly on internet forums. This is so wrong, Donnie. Scripturally wrong.

You can't expect him to be better than you, and until you start treating him like your brother, you don't have any right to, either.

It's embarassing and shameful how you speak publicly about Christ-siblings. Embarassing for you, your family, your church family, and all those with him you share the SOF, "Church of Christ".

 
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Untruth Buster
(no login)
68.19.221.28

Feel bad for one ... but not for the hundreds that fled?

August 6 2006, 10:18 PM 

v-jo,

Look at the exodus en masse. Caused by one man and his musicians. It's what he did. (You know, when Nick Boone was dismissed as a song leader and the elders were looking for a replacement ... guess what? I inwardly voted for this brother to be the one to lead singing.) But since the takeover of the second assembly, nothing has been the same. He is still the problem ... like or not.

I see. You feel bad for one Christ-sibling, but not for the hundreds that fled. Yeah ... right!

Donnie


 
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peck
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"You slander a celestial being ... you slander God...."

August 6 2006, 10:26 PM 

Donnie,
You're thinking as the world thinks...not as one who belongs to a body of Christ...

When you slander your elders and church leaders..You slander a celestial being..God has given them authority to do their job...You slander God when you publicly trash your own leadership...

It's normal for us all to have feelings of keeping our CoC heritage in check...Men from all times have fought for our heritage to remain as it is..Some big time CoC preacher whom I cannot recall the name,left the mission field some years ago, to come back to the US,so he could straighten out the brethren..It has always been somebodies buisness to keep the CoC heritage in check..

Tell me..Where has God set you in the worship assembly? Have you participated in the service...so..that someone could judge your actions..Leaders have a God given duty to give their talents to the Lord..

Donnie,think about repenting for your slander and let your heart join your family that cares for you...What are your feelings about how the congregation comes to the front with those who have responded..and they kneel and pray with them..and encourage them in whatever need they have..It brings tears to my eyes to see the compassion of those who attends Madison....You are loved by those who serve that congregation...We all fall short when it comes to behaviour..You're just normal..Worship style doesn't provide any righteousness to us and it doesn't take it away either....Trying to keep corporate worship pure is a problem because the guidelines are not given to us in a rulebook..Elders have it tough...

God bless,Peck

 
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CVNurse
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"I guarantee you Keith does not have the intentions..."

August 6 2006, 10:28 PM 

Donnie,

I was at Madison for all the history you've brought up. I have also had in-depth conversations with Keith regarding this subject...

You said: you said: "Go search online. Some of the job descriptions: “worship leaders have some special access into God’s presence that the congregation doesn’t have” [WOW!] …"

I guarantee you Keith does not have the intentions you say he does...I can almost guarantee you've not spoken to him privately about this (like you know you should) while you prefer to slander him for all the world to see.

Please wake up!

CV

 
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Untruth Buster
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"... but hundreds of the members did not agree [as well]..."

August 6 2006, 10:31 PM 

peck,

I am sure that your son-in-law is a celestial being to you. It is a perfect description of the new office of "Worship Leader" -- some intercessor who leads the congregants into God's holy presence.

Just because I [along with hundreds of the members] did not agree with the leadership's colossal mistake in 2001 ... is that what you call slander?

If there's someone who needs to repent for damaging the church, it's your celestial son-in-law. If it weren't for him and his Praise Team, the congregation would still be intact today. He needs to stop fooling himself as if he is the victim and the innocent one.

Participated in the "service"? No, Peck, not under his leading me to God's holy presence. And you're right about no rulebook about worship. But you're not right about giving yourself [the "Worship Leader"] the license to fabricate one. Proof -- it's difficult to find the word "worship" in the book of Acts [history of the early church] and in all the epistles to the early churches. Much less "musical worship" or "worship concert."

No, I think you should pray for Keith. He needs it just like everyone else does and he STILL needs God to LEAD him before he can lead others. Don't you worry about me. My task is to warn other congregations that while some changes are good, it's just not worth the unity and growth of the church by implementing CONTROVERSIAL and UNNECESSARY CHANGES that cause alienation and division and strife.

I mean all that very sincerely,

Donnie

 
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BrianRasmussen
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"I get it. ... so they must have dirty minds."

August 6 2006, 10:36 PM 

Keep on skipping significant points. The BIG buck$$$$ -- the saints' collection could be much better used in evangelism and benevolence.

I get it. If someone is doing something that I don't agree with, they must have sinister motives for doing it. Like greed or spiritual pride or lust. They don't agree with me, so they must have dirty minds.


 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"But paying some one to sing??? God help us!"

August 6 2006, 10:39 PM 

Brian, when I took my first full time preaching position I was contacted at least once every 2 or 3 months by someone who wanted to come and sing to our congregation.

It would always be a different person or group. They would usually tell me that if we could not afford to pay them they would be glad to pass the plate and take what ever was offered.

I say this because I know first hand that there are some people out there who are looking for an audience to perform for and they expect to get paid for doing it.

My question is why? We don't pay anyone to pray for us, do we? We don't pay anyone to serve the Lord's Supper for us, do we? We don't pay anyone to pass the offering baskets for us, do we? Why should we have to pay someone to sing for us??? We did not pay them years ago. Why now is a congregation burdened with having to pay and support someone to sing at us?

Singing is part of worship, why should a congregation pay a person to worship?

It is true that we support a minister to preach the word. Preaching is the most important thing a man can do and it is great when a congregation takes the burden of having to make a living from the preacher's shoulder so he can devote his full attention to it.

But paying some one to sing??? God help us!

In Christ,
Jimmy

 
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BrianRasmussen
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"There are some people that preach just for the money, too."

August 7 2006, 4:09 AM 

Jimmy,

There are some people that preach just for the money, too. They take their money from the offering. Why should we pay them?


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.19.68.204

Re: "There are some people that preach just for the money, too."

August 8 2006, 9:58 AM 

Isn't it about time for Brian to perseverate with "Psalm 150"?

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"Wedding singer, okay but church singer, nokay."

August 7 2006, 4:12 AM 

Brian, You are probably right about that. I wish it was not so.

The worst thing about the paid "church singer" is they come to believe that they are "worship leaders."

I cannot find a reason to have a hired "church singer." Wedding singer, okay but church singer, nokay.

Brian, if you know a little about the Church of Christ you know that our little ones grow up singing. My little 6 year old grandson can out sing me. In the services there is no noise that covers the sound of our voices. Many of these young children and our teens have good voices. Often a teen may get to lead singing durning the Wednesday or Sunday pm service.

What I am trying to say Brian is that there are men, in the Churches of Christ, who love to lead the singing without charge. They just want to be a part of the worship. I believe that it is a bad practise for a congregation to let only 1 or 2 chosen men lead the singing, paid or not? Any man, who wants to lead the singing, should be used in a rotation, and they are here where I worship. And none of them is paid to do it.

Now I am not saying that makes us any better than anyone else but it does give opportunity for more men to be involved and no one is being "paid to worship."

In christ,
Jimmy

 
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loveB
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"They are called SHEPHERDS and not goat tenders... Celestial beings?"

August 7 2006, 4:16 AM 

Peck says: slandering celestial being..God has given them authority to do their job...You slander God when you publicly trash your own leadership...

Oh Peck! Son in laws are dispensible you know. I remember an email that to question elders is to slander celestial beings. Now, that fits with the STANDING ORDERS for hiring teams to lead us into the presence of God. That has been a WIDE SPREAD thesis and now the HIRERS are celestial beings. I don't know a musician who does not believe that they are INSPIRED. However, ALL of the Bible and outside evidence calls that PROPHESYING. Jesus will not know the names of those who traffic on LORD LORD SAYING.

The example of Jesus the apostles and the DIRECT COMMAND for elders is that must first be laboring to the point of exhaustion in preaching and teaching. They are called SHEPHERDS and not goat tenders. They are ELDERS by virtue of THEIR OWN HOLY SPIRIT and not because crony selection and "ordination" BESTOWS spiritual power on them. Paul said that the must "teach that which has been taught and refute those who oppose it." That is the LIMIT of their "authority." People obey by listening to their BIBLICAL teaching and by "watching the outcome of their lives." There is NO command authority.

If they have to hire shepherds and pied pipers that is the FIRST dogmatic proof that they are not qualified. Anyone who would permit a "school of the bible" to be turned (diverted as boasted) into a "theater for holy entertainment" is what you call your every day WOLF. Now, V-jo, you watch for my posting on 1 Cor 6 and I will prove that all of the PERFORMANCE roles are led by DEMAGOGUES who by definition "control others by the use of performing arts." Even Nimrod would be a better leader. Their LIFTING UP with excitement put down by the death of Christ and the REST (sabbath) He gave is is OUTLAWED in Romans 15. The purpose of the demagogues is connected DIRECTLY to the the word KLEPTOMAI. Judas was a kleptes and he had the BAG which was "for carrying the mouth peaces of wind instruments."

There is NO musical concept connected with the worship of a SPIRIT God from Genesis to Revelation. On the other hand MUSIC or SINGING as been identified as IDOLATRY from beginning to the end. SINGING was Moses' proof that the people were PLAYING which means singing and getting AROUSED. Peck, it is all just hallucinated and you are trying to justify something which HAPPENED in the last few years of the prophesied end times.

I say that the rumblings began at Madison when Shelly came to Nashville and had to be released from Lipscomb. If you can peg the beginning of Jubilee (1985-7) about the time Lucado returned with a bait of Spiritism as the beginning of the apostasy at Madison and a few other churches. I think people just blinked about 2000-1 but they were not SUPPOSED to have caught on until the complete diversion was in place. By now you would be into instruments. And, in fact, the kind of singing induced by Keith is MORE DAMAGING to the body, soul and spirit than a quiet pipe organ or piano. Nimrod and modern medical science knows that it WORKS because you are inducing a DRUG HIGH by the use of sight, soung and motion. That is not remotely Christ and if OSHA ever caught on you would have a ribbon placed on the door to quarantine it.

The fact that the YOUNG have more residual stability makes it FUN for the kids but destructive to MOST mature people.

Peter COMMANDED that If you speak you speak as the ORACLES OF GOD. Then if you have TALENT you used that for MINISTRY. For the literate the ORACLE spoke in a soft, slow voice and the ORACLE was bound to speak ONLY what had been revealed. While keith is functioning as an Apollo oracle, he is NOT inspired.

The word SPEAK specificially commanded for the Greek Ekklesia (or synagogue) was "in a whisper or conversational tone." That is like an ORACLE deliveres it.

The other word for SPEAK which includes WORD or LOGOS means to SPEAK to the exclusion of MUSIC.

The command for elders and Paul to the ekklesia in Romans 15 was to speak with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH using "that which is written" or "scripture." You are defending the direct violation of the word of God. Not to worry: the sermons I have heard directly contradict the Word. The command was so that you edify or EDUCATE: you are violating that because there is NO plan to educate. All of the MUSIC history in the Bible proves that it is to SILENCE the Word of God: case proven and you violate the spirit and the letter of the bible. Not to worry because that is not the AGENDA of the new style worship which as their OWN vision from God.

The other function Paul commanded for speaking the "songs and sermons" of the Spirit of Christ is that you GLORIFY GOD. You are not: it is not remotely possible to perform as a musician without getting ALL of the glory evey if you claim to give it to god. Any one who stands BETWEEN the "body" and God CLAIMS to be the MEDIATOR and I say they BELIEVE that they are "celestial beings." The American Guild of Organists was founded on the premise that musicians were INSPIRED. All of the evidence proves that they are SOURCED from Lucifer (Zoe) in order to BLEED OFF worship due only to God.

I know your pain but YOU have a serious issue with God and so does anyone who PRETENDS to speak to or for God. That is what God Agrippa (?) afflicted with MAGGOTS and He build himself a WORSHIP CENTER at Tyre just like Lucifer the "singing and harp playing prostitute."

Whey you say HE IS THE BEST you are in deep doodoo or voodoo: you ARE praising the musical performer whom Jesus identified as a HYPOCRITE by pointing to the prophets to include speakers, singers and instrumentalists ALL "seeing godliness as a means of financal gain." That means seeing anything but GOING as an evangelists as OCCUPATION. Peter identified them as corrupters of the Word meaning to "sell at retail."

You are NOT defending the Synagogue of Christ but the rankest form of pagan "worship center." I know, I know, but what you THANK cannot TRUMP God and His word honored by those hundreds who have been DELIBERATELY DISCORDED with the knowledge aforehand that you might lose HALF of the "owners." Nothing can TRUMP or ever forgive the offending of hundreds of those for whom Jesus Died.

Now, I am sure that you don't care but THAT is the difference between an EKKLESIA and a CIRCE or KIRKE whom John identified with her singers, musicians and ALL religious operatives and performing SORCERY. In fact, all arousal singing words are defined as ENCHANTMENT or SORCERY and that is unforgiveable.

God cannot USE human talent or he would have had apostles from Jerusalem U (Sodom U) and he had a grand musical worship team which he destroyed along with their harps.

The REMNANT means that you will be with Jesus OUTSIDE of the polus suffering reproaches when He comes: he will not endure the same MOCKING right up to the Cross. It WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN.

 
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peck
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"I'm not defending a man of faith as Keith"

August 8 2006, 4:26 PM 

Untruth Buster,
I'm not defending a man of faith as Keith..He needs no defense..I learned early that God had a purpose for him and he took the challenge..Do you think a worship leader's job only consists of leading singing...God is changing the standards for his worship period..The congregation my folks planted had preachers come to preach that only received as little as 15 cents ...about 13 cents more than they deserved...The old benches were a bad standard..padded pews are much better..When I was little,the only verse us boys knew was "Jesus Wept"..now we have paid staff to handle the class instruction process..Little kids now..know more than I...

You are entitled to your opinion ...You are not entitled to slander your leadership..When I said Celestial being...I meant God..Jude tells us that we sometimes slander celestal beings ....God is the one who authorized elders and church leaders to lead his body...and when you slander them..You slander God...Disagreeing is not slander..Leaving is not slander..But you are expressing actions that is slander...For your information,Keith's mind is always on his service to our Lord..He doesn't concern himself with your negativeness but always lifts up our Lord in some kind of praise...He is under the authoriy of the elders ..

You might ask yourself...Why is praising God so evil? Is there some kind of laws in the bible that regulate praise to God...? Madison is timid compared to 4th and Otter..The CoC is going to change but there will alway be congregations that will keep our heritage intact..We have the privilege to meet with them when we choose...Worship style is just a choice..

God bless,Peck

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
68.19.221.28

Slander celestial beings: "the source this came from?"

August 8 2006, 4:30 PM 

peck, I have never heard this before. You wrote: "When I said Celestial being...I meant God..Jude tells us that we sometimes slander celestal beings ....God is the one who authorized elders and church leaders to lead his body...and when you slander them..You slander God..."

Could you be specific and provide the source this came from?

In christ,
Jimmy


 
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peck
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"Untruth Buster is rejecting it and he grumbles and faultfinds"

August 8 2006, 4:36 PM 

Jimmy,
Fair question about the celestial beings..

I'm not placing Donnie in the context of Jude...Donnie is a Godly man...Jude is about ungodly men....

However,those of us who are Godly can by ignorance slander a celestial being..though grace is ready to understand...What do I mean...?

What characteristic attitude was involved in Jude that caused slander of a celestal being...

(1)verse 8..reject authority

(2)verse 16...grumblers and fault finders

God is a celestal being...God gave the elders and deacons at Madison authority...Untruth Buster is rejecting it and he grumbles and faultfinds...Slandering my family and the elders that is over them with his self appointed position as .............don't exactly know...If he has been given an assignment by the elders to sit in the balcony and report his thoughts to the public,then OK,I'll lay off...but he is a self appointed critic defying authority as best I see.....

And he will keep on and on and on and.....But I admire his faith..I'm good at religion but weak on faith...

BTW,how was the lake house get together?

God bless,Peck

 
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Untruth Buster
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"Get over it" is not God's authority.

August 8 2006, 4:42 PM 

Mine is not a self appointed position -- unlike someone's claim to be the congregation's "Worship Leader."

I've never rejected authority in accordance with the Scriptures. You're certainly confused about plain authority versus authority that is God-directed.

Pointing out the results of division and alienation among the brethren stemming from unwise and truth-compromising decisions is hardly fault-finding. Romans 16:17 -- "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."

I shouldn't have to keep reminding you and others that I was not the one who said with "authority" [that you speak of]: "If you don't like it ... get over it; we must move on."

Evidently, man's authority means more to you than what authority God would have elders to have. I honestly believe that "Get over it" is not God's authority.

Donnie

 
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BrianRasmussen
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"The church that I am a member of does not pay our worship leader..."

August 8 2006, 4:46 PM 

U.B.,

Whatever your church decides to do is their business. I won't attack them for it. In fact, the church that I am a member of does not pay our worship leader, either. He is on the church staff, but he is an unpaid volunteer.

I like it when we sing the old hymns, but I wouldn't want an exclusive diet of it. I love the contemporary music as well. I think our mixture is ideal. We praise our Lord with the contemporary music and we receive instruction and encouragement through the hymns that we sing.

The assembly that I am a member of only formed about 10 years old. Early in it's history (I am told) it was heavily into the Purpose Driven movement, but they eventually repented of some of the seeker sensative parts of it. There used to be secular songs played in order to draw the unsaved in. But the pastor and the other elders (I think correctly) decided that it was better to have a smaller crowd of unsaved in the interest of drawing them to Christ instead of the building.

 
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Untruth Buster
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"... that all-contemporary-music is not a good diet, either"

August 8 2006, 4:48 PM 

Brian,

Thanks for the info.

I would like to say that all-contemporary-music is not a good diet, either. And this is happening these days in certain churches where the great scriptural hymns are fast-becoming extinct. What makes it worse in certain situations is when the "Worship Leader" would resort to hymns only that are somewhat difficult to sing -- giving the "Praise Team" a great chance to PERFORM and show off their musical talent. In essence, folks are being sung to and become spectators.

No, I'm not interested in the name of the church building. That's simply for public information -- giving people the idea where they're entering in.

Again, thanks for the insight.

U.B.

 
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peck
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"I think we are both just immature christians" [?]

August 8 2006, 4:51 PM 

Donnie,
I think we are both just immature christians..I realize that even as old as I am,that growing up in the Lord is always a distance off...

Maybe,it's not what is going on in an assembly of the saints that's upsetting to either of us..but rather,maybe it's what's going on inside us...Power gained by slander is unearned power..Power gained by putting you down is unearned power...My attempt to reason with you has not been successful and I just would like to call you brother and ease off...

God bless,Peck


 
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Untruth Buster
(no login)
68.19.221.28

"I do not have a problem with where I stand on issues"

August 8 2006, 4:54 PM 

Peck,

I do not have a problem with where I stand on issues that the church faces today. I'm the one who has not changed. And I continue to stress that it's better for a congregation to stay away from CONTROVERSIAL and UNNECESSARY CHANGES. It does not matter whether it is a salvation issue or not. It's just not worth it. Having said all that, I don't think I'm being an immature Christian. In fact, I think otherwise -- it is maturity.

I'm just speaking for myself ... and hoping that you will stop attacking me.

Donnie

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
4.152.99.43

An urgent message to the elders: restore your authority

August 9 2006, 11:34 AM 

The best way to honor the godly elders is to feed information about the MARK of music. Most of this has been blurred in the the Rabinnic Universities now turning out actors and musicians to be MEDIATORS in song and sermon. I would love to hear from someone with the PLEDGE of confidentiality.

As we write the eternal battle against the CAINITES or Kenites who ruled in Jerusalem until recently is going on in the SAME PLACE the original battle took place. There it is literally: in many once upon a time churches (schools of the Bible) it is taking place with the same Cainites (from a musical mark) who HAVE seduced faithful people away from the WORD as it has been taught and they USE the same kind of MUSIC Satan through the fallen angels and the YOUTH using "mixed sex choirs, instruments (real or organic), seductive appearance (the authential or female sexual authority and whatever you may find in a FALLEN church. Azazel is the fallen angel Israel sacrificed the Scape Goat to after God turned them over to worship the Starry Hosts pointed to in the BEGINNING and the ENDING of the Bible.

In Acts 20 Paul warned about ELDERS who are WOLVES and not SHEPHERD. The wolf is the universal message of sexual perverts to TAKE the flock and USE them. The definition of a DEMAGOGUE is one who "uses popular arts to appeas the crowd" and he USES them defined by the word KLEPTOMAI.

Lucifer in the garden is seen as "bisexual" who DECEIVED or wholly seduced Eve but took Adam easily. Jude points to the same people who USE people for their own LUSTS and PROFIT by pointing to The Book of Enoch. This book is quoted at least 128 times throughout the New Testament and was once in the canon because it defines the JUBAL family. Jubal gave his name to JUBILEE.
    "In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51).
The clear message in the Bible
    And his brothers name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. Gen 4:21

    Handle means:

    Taphas (h8610) taw-fas'; a prim. root; to manipulate, i. e. seize; chiefly to capture, wield; spec. to overlay; fig. to use unwarrantably: - catch, handle, (lay, take) hold (on, over), stop, * surely, surprise, take.
      Taphaph (h8608) taw-faf'; a prim. root; to drum, i. e. play (as) on the tambourine: - taber, play with timbrels.

      Topheth (h8612) to'-feth; the same as 8611; Topheth, a place near Jerus.: - Tophet, Topheth.
Topheth is God's IMAGE of Hell itself: it was king Solomon's MUSIC GROVE where they eventially began burning babies (the Canaan land messag) to Molech. The used loud singing and beat on drums (hand clapping means to HISS or BOO and to VOMIT.

Isaiah 30 clearly says that HELL was specificially prepared for Satan, his fallen angels and those who get seduced by ANY kind of "music."

First, Jude begins with the Biblical principle of the ONLY Authority:
    Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

    Jude 13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

    Jude 14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

    Jude 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

    Jude 16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having mens persons in admiration because of advantage.

    Jude 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

    Jude 18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.


    They PIPED as children trying to get Jesus to sing and dance!

    Jude 19 These be they who separate (g592 repudiate and form a sect or party) themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
The Book of Enoch and similar writings, and defined in the Bible, says that Satan used the youth to SEDUCE people away from the Living Word. They used mixed-sex choirs, instruments (mouth bands means the same thing) and sexual attractiveness to seduce people through LUST of the flesh and LUST of the ears. There is NO OTHER MESSAGE. It is repeated FOR US in Revelation 17-18.

Enoch 7:1 It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful.

Enoch 7: 2 And when the angels, (3) the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children.
    (3) An Aramaic text reads "Watchers" here (J.T. Milik, Aramaic Fragments of Qumran Cave 4 [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1976], p. 167).
Enoch 7: 3 Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise;

Enoch 7: 4 And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime.

Enoch 7: 5 But they answered him and said; We all swear;

Enoch 7: 6 And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking.

Enoch 7: 7 Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, (4) which is the top of mount Armon. (Hermon)
    (4) Upon Ardis. Or, "in the days of Jared" (R.H. Charles, ed. and trans., The Book of Enoch [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1893], p. 63).

Enoch 7: 8 That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it,(5) and bound themselves by mutual execrations.
    (5) Mt. Armon, or Mt. Hermon, derives its name from the Hebrew word herem, a curse (Charles, p. 63).
    Charam (h2763) khaw-ram'; a prim. root; to seclude; spec. (by a ban) to devote to religious uses (espec. destruction); phys. and reflex. to be blunt as to the nose: - make accursed, consecrate, (utterly) destroy, devote, forfeit, have a flat nose, utterly (slay, make away).
Enoch 7: 10 Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees.

Enoch 7: 11 And the women conceiving brought forth giants, (7)
    (7) The Greek texts vary considerably from the Ethiopic text here. One Greek manuscript adds to this section, "And they [the women] bore to them [the Watchers] three races: first, the great giants. The giants brought forth [some say "slew"] the Naphelim, and the Naphelim brought forth [or "slew"] the Elioud. And they existed, increasing in power according to their greatness."
Enoch 8:1 Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered.

Enoch 8:2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they

Enoch 8:3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments [music], Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven.


God came with a FIREY LAW to execute judgment against Israel when they fell into the Musical Idolatry of the Egyptian Trinity. They LOST the Covenant of Grace and were placed under Kings specificially to CARRY OUT the captivity and death sentence. When they USE the Gentile-like Monarchy they are clearly working against God.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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