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Faithsite / Jabez HIJACKED by ANTI Church of Christ PLANTS?

August 15 2006 at 12:32 PM
Ken Sublett  (no login)
from IP address

Faithsite seems to have been hijacked by a terrorist in Cyprus. I think he has a SECRET PLANT working inside of Jabez who EXCLUDES any defense of those BASHING churches of Christ.

This may be a HIGH CRIME and certainly NOT Christian.

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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

Much Concern!

August 15 2006, 10:52 PM 

There was a lot of concern as posters attempted to find out what was going on!

Threads began with titles such as "MODERATOR - WHY IS YOUR IP ADDRESS IN CYPRESS??; POLL- Who Is One Of The New Moderators?;Has this forum been HIJACKED?"

Moderators failed to remove much of the "trash talk." One poster writes: What are you arguing about you MORON! If you want to argue or debate something, then let's get it on."
An alleged preacher's wife writes: "It isn't working for God that stinks, it's working for the people who think you are their employee, or worse, their slave, that stinks. People want to control the preacher, the preacher's wife, the preacher's kids. They don't want them to serve God...It's a stinkin' job for stinkin' support. That isn't why "we" (it is a FAMILY thing) do it. We do it because this is how we believe we can best serve God. He has called us, and we have answered"

A lot could be added to this, for example there is a big play on the three letter word for donkey.

Some of those posting this kind of stuff were people who have been ban from this site! Dr. Crump wrote several kind post warning them that this kind of reviling should not be allowed. I guess they will never learn

But hopefully the moderators will get it all sorted out. I can certainly undersand the need for a moderator to read and approve a post before posting it for the public to read.

In Christ,

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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

FaithSite Back to Bash and Trash

August 17 2006, 8:57 PM 

When the new moderators took over, I had emailed them a couple of times to alert them about people making personal attacks. Their "cure" was to eliminate the entire threads wherein the attacks took place. After three days, however, people have continually poured on the attacks with a vengeance despite the new rules, yet the moderators now remain silent, and things have gone back to the way they were before. Unless they act swiftly, there might as well be no rules. Maybe the moderators have come to realize that it's just too big a job for them to handle. There are just too many posts to screen, since the moderators don't moderate 24/7.

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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

Is Faithsites an unsafe place?

August 18 2006, 10:55 AM 

I had never seen a post like this before on any message board. The post was from one who claims to be a preacher's wife. She post to this board on a regular basis and she is always promoting such doctrine as woman leading prayer in the assembly; IM is okay; taking the Lord's supper anytime you feel like, take it even when you are alone.

One woman wrote a post about painting a porch on a Thursday and then eating supper, including the Lord's supper, with the painter! This preacher's wife really chided the posters who wrote in support of the Lord's supper being "ONLY" for the first day of the week.

She also sees nothing wrong with IM. She complains to all that do. But here come the post that I don't understand. She says that she does some things on the faithsites board for her protection.

What has one to fear from Faithsites? This preacher's wife is bold enought to get personal and call other posters "jerks and other names" and then professes the need to "protect herself?"

Here is one of her post: "Copying to one's personal computer for personal use is one thing. Sometimes we do that for our own protection, as Y has done."

Is faithsites a safe place? Does one need protection there?"

As for me I decided to get out of Dodge. No more faithsites for me!

In Christ,

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Tom Brite
(no login)

Re: FaithSite Back to Bash and Trash

August 18 2006, 11:16 AM 

Dr., since you are the biggest offender at that site when it comes to personal attacks and unChristlike behaviour, I would suspect that you would want a personal exemption from the new Moderators. Perhaps you know the Moderators and have already obtained this exemption since you are still able to post on the site.

You have proven yourself on a site that is comprised mostly of non-Church of Christ people to be an embarrassment to Churches of Christ.

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"alleged" preacher's wife
(no login)

absence of ethics and integrity

August 18 2006, 12:00 PM 

Crump - Thought you should know that I have an appt. w/an attorney Monday.

I wasn't kidding. Remove all the posts on this site from iB/FS.

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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

You got the money for an attorney???

August 18 2006, 5:48 PM 

APW (alleged preacher's wife) writes:"members drive mercedes and lexus and live in $500,00 homes, and you're struggling to keep food on the table, and can't go to the doctor and have expensive tests and medicines when you're very ill, something is wrong.

It isn't working for God that stinks, it's working for the people who think you are their employee, or worse, their slave, that stinks. People want to control the preacher, the preacher's wife, the preacher's kids. They don't want them to serve God. We don't leave the work because of this. It just makes it all that much harder to do. It means we take on extra jobs, and are stretched way too thinly."

Jimmy replies: You cannot afford to go to the doctor but you can afford to go to a lawyer for domething like this!!!

In Christ,

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(no login)

Preacher's Wife (Alleged or Otherwise)

August 18 2006, 6:19 PM 

Quoting her:
[The stripes that I have have left open, gaping wounds on my heart and spirit. I would take a physical beating any day over the emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse I have suffered at the hands of "elders". Physical scars heal. Elders are not supposed to be the enemy.

Do not make light. Just don't do it.]

Her past experiences may explain her present resentments and hostilities toward authority and sound doctrine. It's unfortunate.

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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

alleged experience!

August 18 2006, 8:12 PM 

You could be right. I will not argue the point. I must add that I personally gave her the opportunity to name where all of these bad churches with bad elders and bad people are but she would, or could, not name a one. She refused to name one but continued to write how bad they were!

Read this post (an approved cut and paste job - I have checked on this matter): "Preachers - and their families - can and are abused mentally, emotionally and spiritually by churches, leaders, and members alike. **** owes you no explanation, no details, absolutely nothing. You don't believe him, or me, too bad for you. A preacher works for God, not for a congregation...He may be supported by a church, but he is not an "employee" of the church." end of quote.

She seems to like getting the SUPPORT (MONEY) from a congregation but she does not like having to acknowledge being employed by the congregation.

In another post of her's she wrote, "The stripes that I have have left open, gaping wounds on my heart and spirit. I would take a physical beating any day over the emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse I have suffered at the hands of "elders". Physical scars heal. Elders are not supposed to be the enemy. end of quote.

She openly condemns churches and elders without bring forth another witness to these acusations. AND THESE ARE VERY SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS TO PUBLICLY MAKE ABOUT THE CHURCH, THE ELDERS, AND GOD'S PEOPLE! VERY SERIOUS. One should not receive such accusations except in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

In Christ,

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a real preacher's wife
(no login)

Re: alleged experience!

August 19 2006, 2:01 PM 

"Read this post (an approved cut and paste job - I have checked on this matter):"

This was not "an approved cut and paste job".

"Concerned members" have the power to stop this kind of unethical behavior. To allow it's continuation is to support it.

If you have any influence with these men at all, please, have them remove these stolen, manipulated posts. I would hate to have to take my "brother" to court.

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"'alleged' preacher's wife"
(no login)

To Donnie Cruz, Jimmy Wren, and Bill Crump

August 19 2006, 11:13 AM 

You can block some of the people some of the time, but you can't block all of the people all of the time.

There's an all-seeing eye watching you, watching you...

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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

an all seeing eye??

August 19 2006, 2:49 PM 

Is that you definition for God? An all-seeing eye?

"...watching you..." Is that your definition of God's work? The all seeing eye is watch "you."

The way you describe this "big eye" as watching "you - (singular)" sounds more like a "private eye." Are you telling me that you have hired a "private eye" to watch a "public mesage board?"

In Christ,

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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

Re: absence of ethics and integrity

August 18 2006, 9:06 PM 

On August 18, 2006, "Alleged" preacher's wife (her designation) stated: "Crump - Thought you should know that I have an appt. w/an attorney Monday.

I wasn't kidding. Remove all the posts on this site from iB/FS."

Response by Dr. Bill Crump: "Alleged" preacher's wife (her designation) demands that I delete all messages that were extracted from "iB/FS" and posted here at ConcernedMembers. Since I am not a moderator of ConcernedMembers and never have been, I have neither the power, capability, nor authority to delete any messages or threads on this site. Only the moderators of this site can do that. Furthermore, I have neither extracted any messages from "iB/FS" at any time, nor have I posted those said messages here to ConcernedMembers at any time.

Statement made by Dr. Bill Crump
August 18, 2006

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(no login)

Re: absence of ethics and integrity

August 21 2006, 10:36 PM 

Dear Preacher's Wife,

As a preacher's kid, I, too, saw abuse of my Dad in ways no one would believe unless they had witnessed it. My entire family was constantly watched, critiqued and gossiped about in very UnChristian ways. Congregations are full of people - mostly good, but some not so good. That's just a fact of life.

However, I do NOT agree with all your comments or your attitude towards the Church and your position as a preacher's wife. I have come to realize some things that you have failed to see:

The Church is full of Christians and those who claim to be Christians. Two very distinct people. One following Christ, one unknowingly following Satan. There will always be these two types. The devil already has the world, so his main target is the Christian. What better way to get to them than to cause discord and distrust? To change the very fabric of what Christ created with his death and resurrection?

Furthermore, what you have said on the other site about being a preacher is wrong. So wrong.

First of all, your husband IS an employee of that particular congregation. By state laws and by definition. They pay his salary, they have expectations that he is to meet. He has a duty to that congregation that should have been outlined in his job description. If he doesn't have his job description set, he needs to get one and make the congregants stick to it.

2nd, as a preacher's wife, you no longer have a schedule that is set by your own desires. You are a part of a team now. What you do and say reflects on your husband's abilities to lead his family. So far, he isn't leading - you are! You are to be his help-mate. To stand beside him. He is not in this position all alone, whether YOU like it or not.

3rd, as a Christian, you seem to have a slightly questionable attitude towards God and the Church. Your anger is sad. Your attitude is extremely negative. Your hatred is apparent. You're attitude can only cause harm to the Church and to your husband, maybe you should take a small vacation to think about your overall spiritual health.

If you are not meant to be a preacher's wife, then you should tell your husband. He deserves to make a decision based on the real facts. Your attitude can ruin him and the congregation. Your negativity is catching. Its not a failure to admit that something isn't right for you. I couldn't be a preacher's wife because I have this horrible issue with seeing through to the truth of something or someone. It is a not a particularly appealing habit for a preacher's wife! I would be a negative for my husband and I admit it.

Don't blame the Church for your displeasure with being a preacher's wife. Only a few women are meant to handle that job and it doesn't sound like you are one of them - at least not at this point in your life. By the way, suing is such a waste of anger and hurt. The only people who come out winning are the lawyers.

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"alleged" preacher's wife
(no login)

Re: absence of ethics and integrity

August 21 2006, 11:56 PM 

PPB - Until you have walked EVERY mile in my shoes, you simply do not know, and cannot understand, neither my life, nor the problem with the so-called "Christian brethren" that run this website/forum. You have judged and condemned me unfairly. But that is typical of people who frequent this place, isn't it?

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(no login)

Re: absence of ethics and integrity

August 27 2006, 11:20 PM 

Preacher's wife...

I promise you that there is probably not much that has occured in your life that has not occured in mine. You couldn't begin to understand the life I have known - nor do you want to. I really don't care where you walked or how you walked in your past. Your past is your past.

You are in the present. Your actions and comments reflect on who you are today. And as of today, your actions show a very negative spirit and a very unhumbled person. That's based on YOUR own words. It upsets me greatly that a congregation allows a preacher to have a wife that is so negative and possibly unaware of some major scriptures.

The scriptures CLEARLY teach us that we are not to be a stumbling block for others. This website has only tried to remind people of the TRUTH of the scriptures and the TRUTH behind what is going on. As a preacher's kid, I know how evil these change agents are to true scriptures and the weak souls. I heard their meetings, I witnessed their discussions. They are NOT Christians...they are NOT following God's word.

So, I ask myself...What would a preacher's wife have against a group of Christians who are trying to warn others about the infiltration of Satan's servants? Would she not be as upset as they are? Would she not want to warn those she professes to love - her fellow Christians? Would she not be willing to stand up against those that have twisted Christ's simple message to fulfill their own human wants and needs? And if she condemns them for doing EXACTLY what the scriptures tell us to do (stand firm, turn away from those that continue to live a wordly life, rebuke those that teach falsely, etc.) then exactly who's side is she on?

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Ken Sublett
(no login)

SAVED FROM: Speakers, singers, musicians, PARASITES, Sorcerers

August 19 2006, 10:39 AM 


Since FaithSlight has been declared a Testesterone Free Zone (whatever the sex), the truly outrageous discussion is back to CHANGING the Word of God and THEN discussing it. Waning Moon quotes the CREED and asks for CONFORMITY:
    We believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and in him alone.
This mistranslates Ephesians 2 because the beginning of the chapter has Paul quoting his usual reference to the act of Baptism. Since Zwingli in about 1525 and the MISUSE by Baptists, the word JUSTIFICATION has been SWITCHED to SALVATION. Salvation is ONLY throught CHRIST ALONE; salvation is not by FAITH ALONE which puts the POWER in the "beleiver" and denies Christ.


We have looked at being SAVED FROM this wicked and perverted GENERATION and proven that this points directly to the musical, charismatic religionism where MERCHANDISERS (called prostitutes by Peter because they RETAIL the Word of God just as occupation). Jesus defines them as THE seed of the Devil because "they speak on their own" and John refused to baptize them because they were THE VIPER generation of Kenites or Cainites who plagued the temple as the musical sodomites in the Abomination of Desolation. They will be baptised by the SPIRIT of FIRE and the SPIRIT of BURNING.

Next, people who quote isolated verses cannot read the Word of God because 2 Cor. 3 proves that the UNCONVERTED cannot read what is HOLY. Righteousness is not the same as SALVATION which is not the same as REGENERATION.
    Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die:
      yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

    Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his LOVE toward us,
      in that, while we were yet sinners,
      Christ died for us.
If we ACCEPT that love then we WILL do what we are commanded to do. AFTER we have been declared JUST when we believe and ACCEPT Jesus Christ, we still need to be SAVED. But, saved FROM what and TO what? Being saved from the WICKED AND PERVERTED race of people is to GO OUTSIDE the camp or institutions and find Jesus Christ. There, Jesus gives us REST from these same institutional BURDEN LADERS. That BURDEN is "spiritual anxiety created through religious rituals." The word REST or Greek PAUL often means to STOP the speaking, STOP the singing, STOP the musical instruments" and everything which interferes with the VOICE of Jesus when we "teach that which HE HAS taught."

Romans 5:9 points to the same ORGY or creation of MENTAL EXCITEMENT. Why? Because those who AROUSE us intend to "carry us away" for their OWN USES. In Romans 15:1 the word PLEASE or pleasure is almost always PERVERTED but Paul demands that we please FOR EDUCATION:
    Rom 5:9 Much more then,
      being now justified by his blood,
      we SHALL BE saved
      from wrath through him.
WRATH or ORGE or ORGY is the "worship of EROS." That is why the "new style praise singing" is EROTIC and demeaning to Jesus Christ. Therefore, when you see and hear and FEEL the level of performance preaching, singing, hand clapping and with or without instruments you have a VISUAL AID of a Satanic attack on Jesus Who died to remove the laded burden and the BURDEN LADERS who are spiritual prostitutes and sorcerers in the words of John in Revelation 18:22

A similar word which speaks of the Dionysiacs and Orphics who had to be SILENCED in Romans 14 before "ekklesia" or synagogue or school of the Bible can be held with NO performers:

    A. pleasing, mostly in bad sense, obsequious, cringing,

    II. areskos, ho, the staff borne by pornoboskoi [brothel keeper] on the stage, Poll.4.120.

    Arist.EN1108a28 Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics book 2

    [13] In respect of pleasantness and social amusement, the middle character is witty and the middle disposition Wittiness; the excess is Buffoonery and its possessor a buffoon; the deficient man may be called boorish, and his disposition Boorishness. In respect of general pleasantness in life, the man who is pleasant in the proper manner is friendly, and the observance of the mean is Friendliness; he that exceeds, if from no interested motive, is obsequious, if for his own advantage, a flatterer;


    1. A city buffoon, droll, jester (usually in the suite of wealthy persons, and accordingly a kind of parasite; syn.: -Of the clown in a pantomime, Juv. 13,

You cannot be SAVED TO becoming a DISCIPLE of Jesus Christ until you have been SAVED FROM what takes place in CHURCHES named after CIRCE the "holy whore" of Revelation 18: here singers, musicians and other BUFFOONS are really SORCERERS according to John.
    Quintus Horatius Flaccus, Satyrarum libri 1.2.5

    The tribes of female flute-players,1 quacks, vagrants, mimics, blackguards;2 all this set is sorrowful and dejected on account of the death of the singer Tigellius; for he was liberal [toward them]. On the other hand, this man, dreading to be called a spendthrift, will not give a poor friend [5] wherewithal to keep off cold and pinching hunger.

    Note 2 Mendici, mimae, balatrones . The priests of Isis and Cybele were beggars by profession, and under the vail of religion were often guilty of the most criminal excesses.

    Mimae were players of the most debauched and dissolute kind; and balatrones, in general, signifies all scoundrels, buffoons, and parasites, who had their name, according to the old commentator, from Servilius Balatro. Balatrones hoc genus omne, for omne hoc balatronum genus, is a remarkable sort of construction.

The word REST Jesus died to give us is the Greek PAUO. It demands that we STOP the speaking, stop the singing, stop the music and stop EVERYTHING which arouses mental excitement. This PREVENTS the one another speaking of "that which is written" and aroused PANIC which the DEMAGOGUES sell (prostitute) as the "holy spirit person." They CLAIM to be THE MEDIATORS to "bring you into the presence of God." They ARE "standing in the holy places CLAIMING to be God." BUT fools love to be fooled!

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Dr. Max Moon
(no login)

Who be Waning Moon

August 28 2006, 8:30 PM 

Who be Waning Moon?

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Jimmy Wren
(no login)

so-called "Christian brethren" that run this website/forum.

August 29 2006, 9:53 AM 

Some people just can’t get along with anyone. Post after post this alleged preacher’s wife writes how badly the “elders” and members of congregations have mistreated her.

She laments the success of Christians who can drive expensive cars. She laments the leadership of the elders. She puts this sight and this writer in her cross-hairs by writing threatening e-mails and threatening posts.

Now she writes to PPB and says that one would have to walk every mile in her shoes to understand her life and her problems

Personally I do not wish to understand another person’s life nor do I care to hear about their problems. I encourage a person to turn their life over to Christ and follow Him. Jesus said, “My yoke is easy and my burden is light.” When one is yoked to Jesus all of life’s burdens become light! Burdens are lifted at Calvary! Cast your cares on Jesus for he cares for you.

I am aware that Christians are to also bear one another’s burdens. The burden must be given to Jesus first! Never attempt to shoulder someone else’s burdens who will not first give them to Jesus.

In Christ,

ps - It's good to see Max posting here. Max is my second favorite musicator! Brian is my first, always hung up on Psalms 150. Peck is my last, the bango is just not one of my favorite instruments.

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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

Re: so-called "Christian brethren" that run this website/forum.

August 29 2006, 2:05 PM 


Your statement, "She puts this sight and this writer in her cross-hairs by writing threatening e-mails and threatening posts" suggests that you been receiving unsolicited emails from preacher's wife. Is that true? I remember that shortly after Amazed was banned from this site, he sent blistering emails to Donnie Cruz and me (maybe others as well), calling us "liars, cowards, and monkeys in a circus." After that, I put him on my blocked senders list and in essence banned him from emailing me any further. I also have a spam blocker that sends all email from senders who are not in my address book to a "suspect email" box. I then screen who has sent them and decide whether I want to open any message or delete it. But from those whom you wish never to receive another email, the blocked senders list is the way to go.

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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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