Faithsite seems to have been hijacked by a terrorist in Cyprus. I think he has a SECRET PLANT working inside of Jabez who EXCLUDES any defense of those BASHING churches of Christ.

This may be a HIGH CRIME and certainly NOT Christian.

There was a lot of concern as posters attempted to find out what was going on!

Threads began with titles such as "MODERATOR - WHY IS YOUR IP ADDRESS IN CYPRESS??; POLL- Who Is One Of The New Moderators?;Has this forum been HIJACKED?"

Moderators failed to remove much of the "trash talk." One poster writes: What are you arguing about you MORON! If you want to argue or debate something, then let's get it on."
*****
An alleged preacher's wife writes: "It isn't working for God that stinks, it's working for the people who think you are their employee, or worse, their slave, that stinks. People want to control the preacher, the preacher's wife, the preacher's kids. They don't want them to serve God...It's a stinkin' job for stinkin' support. That isn't why "we" (it is a FAMILY thing) do it. We do it because this is how we believe we can best serve God. He has called us, and we have answered"
*****

A lot could be added to this, for example there is a big play on the three letter word for donkey.

Some of those posting this kind of stuff were people who have been ban from this site! Dr. Crump wrote several kind post warning them that this kind of reviling should not be allowed. I guess they will never learn

But hopefully the moderators will get it all sorted out. I can certainly undersand the need for a moderator to read and approve a post before posting it for the public to read.

In Christ,
Jimmy

When the new moderators took over, I had emailed them a couple of times to alert them about people making personal attacks. Their "cure" was to eliminate the entire threads wherein the attacks took place. After three days, however, people have continually poured on the attacks with a vengeance despite the new rules, yet the moderators now remain silent, and things have gone back to the way they were before. Unless they act swiftly, there might as well be no rules. Maybe the moderators have come to realize that it's just too big a job for them to handle. There are just too many posts to screen, since the moderators don't moderate 24/7.

I had never seen a post like this before on any message board. The post was from one who claims to be a preacher's wife. She post to this board on a regular basis and she is always promoting such doctrine as woman leading prayer in the assembly; IM is okay; taking the Lord's supper anytime you feel like, take it even when you are alone.

One woman wrote a post about painting a porch on a Thursday and then eating supper, including the Lord's supper, with the painter! This preacher's wife really chided the posters who wrote in support of the Lord's supper being "ONLY" for the first day of the week.

She also sees nothing wrong with IM. She complains to all that do. But here come the post that I don't understand. She says that she does some things on the faithsites board for her protection.

What has one to fear from Faithsites? This preacher's wife is bold enought to get personal and call other posters "jerks and other names" and then professes the need to "protect herself?"

Here is one of her post: "Copying to one's personal computer for personal use is one thing. Sometimes we do that for our own protection, as Y has done."

Is faithsites a safe place? Does one need protection there?"

As for me I decided to get out of Dodge. No more faithsites for me!

In Christ,
Jimmy

Dr., since you are the biggest offender at that site when it comes to personal attacks and unChristlike behaviour, I would suspect that you would want a personal exemption from the new Moderators. Perhaps you know the Moderators and have already obtained this exemption since you are still able to post on the site.

You have proven yourself on a site that is comprised mostly of non-Church of Christ people to be an embarrassment to Churches of Christ.

Crump - Thought you should know that I have an appt. w/an attorney Monday.

I wasn't kidding. Remove all the posts on this site from iB/FS.

APW (alleged preacher's wife) writes:"members drive mercedes and lexus and live in $500,00 homes, and you're struggling to keep food on the table, and can't go to the doctor and have expensive tests and medicines when you're very ill, something is wrong.

It isn't working for God that stinks, it's working for the people who think you are their employee, or worse, their slave, that stinks. People want to control the preacher, the preacher's wife, the preacher's kids. They don't want them to serve God. We don't leave the work because of this. It just makes it all that much harder to do. It means we take on extra jobs, and are stretched way too thinly."

Jimmy replies: You cannot afford to go to the doctor but you can afford to go to a lawyer for domething like this!!!

In Christ,
Jimmy

Quoting her:
[The stripes that I have have left open, gaping wounds on my heart and spirit. I would take a physical beating any day over the emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse I have suffered at the hands of "elders". Physical scars heal. Elders are not supposed to be the enemy.

Do not make light. Just don't do it.]


Her past experiences may explain her present resentments and hostilities toward authority and sound doctrine. It's unfortunate.

You could be right. I will not argue the point. I must add that I personally gave her the opportunity to name where all of these bad churches with bad elders and bad people are but she would, or could, not name a one. She refused to name one but continued to write how bad they were!

Read this post (an approved cut and paste job - I have checked on this matter): "Preachers - and their families - can and are abused mentally, emotionally and spiritually by churches, leaders, and members alike. **** owes you no explanation, no details, absolutely nothing. You don't believe him, or me, too bad for you. A preacher works for God, not for a congregation...He may be supported by a church, but he is not an "employee" of the church." end of quote.

She seems to like getting the SUPPORT (MONEY) from a congregation but she does not like having to acknowledge being employed by the congregation.

In another post of her's she wrote, "The stripes that I have have left open, gaping wounds on my heart and spirit. I would take a physical beating any day over the emotional, mental, and spiritual abuse I have suffered at the hands of "elders". Physical scars heal. Elders are not supposed to be the enemy. end of quote.

She openly condemns churches and elders without bring forth another witness to these acusations. AND THESE ARE VERY SERIOUS ACCUSATIONS TO PUBLICLY MAKE ABOUT THE CHURCH, THE ELDERS, AND GOD'S PEOPLE! VERY SERIOUS. One should not receive such accusations except in the mouth of two or three witnesses.

In Christ,
Jimmy

"Read this post (an approved cut and paste job - I have checked on this matter):"



This was not "an approved cut and paste job".

"Concerned members" have the power to stop this kind of unethical behavior. To allow it's continuation is to support it.

If you have any influence with these men at all, please, have them remove these stolen, manipulated posts. I would hate to have to take my "brother" to court.

You can block some of the people some of the time, but you can't block all of the people all of the time.

There's an all-seeing eye watching you, watching you...

Is that you definition for God? An all-seeing eye?

"...watching you..." Is that your definition of God's work? The all seeing eye is watch "you."

The way you describe this "big eye" as watching "you - (singular)" sounds more like a "private eye." Are you telling me that you have hired a "private eye" to watch a "public mesage board?"

In Christ,
Jimmy

On August 18, 2006, "Alleged" preacher's wife (her designation) stated: "Crump - Thought you should know that I have an appt. w/an attorney Monday.

I wasn't kidding. Remove all the posts on this site from iB/FS."

Response by Dr. Bill Crump: "Alleged" preacher's wife (her designation) demands that I delete all messages that were extracted from "iB/FS" and posted here at ConcernedMembers. Since I am not a moderator of ConcernedMembers and never have been, I have neither the power, capability, nor authority to delete any messages or threads on this site. Only the moderators of this site can do that. Furthermore, I have neither extracted any messages from "iB/FS" at any time, nor have I posted those said messages here to ConcernedMembers at any time.

Statement made by Dr. Bill Crump
August 18, 2006

Dear Preacher's Wife,

As a preacher's kid, I, too, saw abuse of my Dad in ways no one would believe unless they had witnessed it. My entire family was constantly watched, critiqued and gossiped about in very UnChristian ways. Congregations are full of people - mostly good, but some not so good. That's just a fact of life.

However, I do NOT agree with all your comments or your attitude towards the Church and your position as a preacher's wife. I have come to realize some things that you have failed to see:

The Church is full of Christians and those who claim to be Christians. Two very distinct people. One following Christ, one unknowingly following Satan. There will always be these two types. The devil already has the world, so his main target is the Christian. What better way to get to them than to cause discord and distrust? To change the very fabric of what Christ created with his death and resurrection?

Furthermore, what you have said on the other site about being a preacher is wrong. So wrong.

First of all, your husband IS an employee of that particular congregation. By state laws and by definition. They pay his salary, they have expectations that he is to meet. He has a duty to that congregation that should have been outlined in his job description. If he doesn't have his job description set, he needs to get one and make the congregants stick to it.

2nd, as a preacher's wife, you no longer have a schedule that is set by your own desires. You are a part of a team now. What you do and say reflects on your husband's abilities to lead his family. So far, he isn't leading - you are! You are to be his help-mate. To stand beside him. He is not in this position all alone, whether YOU like it or not.

3rd, as a Christian, you seem to have a slightly questionable attitude towards God and the Church. Your anger is sad. Your attitude is extremely negative. Your hatred is apparent. You're attitude can only cause harm to the Church and to your husband, maybe you should take a small vacation to think about your overall spiritual health.

If you are not meant to be a preacher's wife, then you should tell your husband. He deserves to make a decision based on the real facts. Your attitude can ruin him and the congregation. Your negativity is catching. Its not a failure to admit that something isn't right for you. I couldn't be a preacher's wife because I have this horrible issue with seeing through to the truth of something or someone. It is a not a particularly appealing habit for a preacher's wife! I would be a negative for my husband and I admit it.

Don't blame the Church for your displeasure with being a preacher's wife. Only a few women are meant to handle that job and it doesn't sound like you are one of them - at least not at this point in your life. By the way, suing is such a waste of anger and hurt. The only people who come out winning are the lawyers.

PPB - Until you have walked EVERY mile in my shoes, you simply do not know, and cannot understand, neither my life, nor the problem with the so-called "Christian brethren" that run this website/forum. You have judged and condemned me unfairly. But that is typical of people who frequent this place, isn't it?

Preacher's wife...

I promise you that there is probably not much that has occured in your life that has not occured in mine. You couldn't begin to understand the life I have known - nor do you want to. I really don't care where you walked or how you walked in your past. Your past is your past.

You are in the present. Your actions and comments reflect on who you are today. And as of today, your actions show a very negative spirit and a very unhumbled person. That's based on YOUR own words. It upsets me greatly that a congregation allows a preacher to have a wife that is so negative and possibly unaware of some major scriptures.

The scriptures CLEARLY teach us that we are not to be a stumbling block for others. This website has only tried to remind people of the TRUTH of the scriptures and the TRUTH behind what is going on. As a preacher's kid, I know how evil these change agents are to true scriptures and the weak souls. I heard their meetings, I witnessed their discussions. They are NOT Christians...they are NOT following God's word.

So, I ask myself...What would a preacher's wife have against a group of Christians who are trying to warn others about the infiltration of Satan's servants? Would she not be as upset as they are? Would she not want to warn those she professes to love - her fellow Christians? Would she not be willing to stand up against those that have twisted Christ's simple message to fulfill their own human wants and needs? And if she condemns them for doing EXACTLY what the scriptures tell us to do (stand firm, turn away from those that continue to live a wordly life, rebuke those that teach falsely, etc.) then exactly who's side is she on?

SAVED FROM PREACHING, SINGING, MUSIC AND OTHER SORCERERS (Rev 18)

Since FaithSlight has been declared a Testesterone Free Zone (whatever the sex), the truly outrageous discussion is back to CHANGING the Word of God and THEN discussing it. Waning Moon quotes the CREED and asks for CONFORMITY:

We believe that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and in him alone.

This mistranslates Ephesians 2 because the beginning of the chapter has Paul quoting his usual reference to the act of Baptism. Since Zwingli in about 1525 and the MISUSE by Baptists, the word JUSTIFICATION has been SWITCHED to SALVATION. Salvation is ONLY throught CHRIST ALONE; salvation is not by FAITH ALONE which puts the POWER in the "beleiver" and denies Christ.

SALVATION IS FROM FALSE RELIGIONISM WITH PERFORMANCE MUSIC CALLED PROSTITUTION.

We have looked at being SAVED FROM this wicked and perverted GENERATION and proven that this points directly to the musical, charismatic religionism where MERCHANDISERS (called prostitutes by Peter because they RETAIL the Word of God just as occupation). Jesus defines them as THE seed of the Devil because "they speak on their own" and John refused to baptize them because they were THE VIPER generation of Kenites or Cainites who plagued the temple as the musical sodomites in the Abomination of Desolation. They will be baptised by the SPIRIT of FIRE and the SPIRIT of BURNING.

Next, people who quote isolated verses cannot read the Word of God because 2 Cor. 3 proves that the UNCONVERTED cannot read what is HOLY. Righteousness is not the same as SALVATION which is not the same as REGENERATION.

Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die:

yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.


Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his LOVE toward us,

in that, while we were yet sinners,
Christ died for us.

If we ACCEPT that love then we WILL do what we are commanded to do. AFTER we have been declared JUST when we believe and ACCEPT Jesus Christ, we still need to be SAVED. But, saved FROM what and TO what? Being saved from the WICKED AND PERVERTED race of people is to GO OUTSIDE the camp or institutions and find Jesus Christ. There, Jesus gives us REST from these same institutional BURDEN LADERS. That BURDEN is "spiritual anxiety created through religious rituals." The word REST or Greek PAUL often means to STOP the speaking, STOP the singing, STOP the musical instruments" and everything which interferes with the VOICE of Jesus when we "teach that which HE HAS taught."

Romans 5:9 points to the same ORGY or creation of MENTAL EXCITEMENT. Why? Because those who AROUSE us intend to "carry us away" for their OWN USES. In Romans 15:1 the word PLEASE or pleasure is almost always PERVERTED but Paul demands that we please FOR EDUCATION:

Rom 5:9 Much more then,

being now justified by his blood,
we SHALL BE saved
from wrath through him.

WRATH or ORGE or ORGY is the "worship of EROS." That is why the "new style praise singing" is EROTIC and demeaning to Jesus Christ. Therefore, when you see and hear and FEEL the level of performance preaching, singing, hand clapping and with or without instruments you have a VISUAL AID of a Satanic attack on Jesus Who died to remove the laded burden and the BURDEN LADERS who are spiritual prostitutes and sorcerers in the words of John in Revelation 18:22

A similar word which speaks of the Dionysiacs and Orphics who had to be SILENCED in Romans 14 before "ekklesia" or synagogue or school of the Bible can be held with NO performers:

Areskos

A. pleasing, mostly in bad sense, obsequious, cringing,

II. areskos, ho, the staff borne by pornoboskoi [brothel keeper] on the stage, Poll.4.120.

Arist.EN1108a28 Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics book 2

[13] In respect of pleasantness and social amusement, the middle character is witty and the middle disposition Wittiness; the excess is Buffoonery and its possessor a buffoon; the deficient man may be called boorish, and his disposition Boorishness. In respect of general pleasantness in life, the man who is pleasant in the proper manner is friendly, and the observance of the mean is Friendliness; he that exceeds, if from no interested motive, is obsequious, if for his own advantage, a flatterer;

scurra

1. A city buffoon, droll, jester (usually in the suite of wealthy persons, and accordingly a kind of parasite; syn.: -Of the clown in a pantomime, Juv. 13,

You cannot be SAVED TO becoming a DISCIPLE of Jesus Christ until you have been SAVED FROM what takes place in CHURCHES named after CIRCE the "holy whore" of Revelation 18: here singers, musicians and other BUFFOONS are really SORCERERS according to John.

Quintus Horatius Flaccus, Satyrarum libri 1.2.5

The tribes of female flute-players,1 quacks, vagrants, mimics, blackguards;2 all this set is sorrowful and dejected on account of the death of the singer Tigellius; for he was liberal [toward them]. On the other hand, this man, dreading to be called a spendthrift, will not give a poor friend [5] wherewithal to keep off cold and pinching hunger.

Note 2 Mendici, mimae, balatrones . The priests of Isis and Cybele were beggars by profession, and under the vail of religion were often guilty of the most criminal excesses.

Mimae were players of the most debauched and dissolute kind; and balatrones, in general, signifies all scoundrels, buffoons, and parasites, who had their name, according to the old commentator, from Servilius Balatro. Balatrones hoc genus omne, for omne hoc balatronum genus, is a remarkable sort of construction.

The word REST Jesus died to give us is the Greek PAUO. It demands that we STOP the speaking, stop the singing, stop the music and stop EVERYTHING which arouses mental excitement. This PREVENTS the one another speaking of "that which is written" and aroused PANIC which the DEMAGOGUES sell (prostitute) as the "holy spirit person." They CLAIM to be THE MEDIATORS to "bring you into the presence of God." They ARE "standing in the holy places CLAIMING to be God." BUT fools love to be fooled!

Who be Waning Moon?

Some people just can’t get along with anyone. Post after post this alleged preacher’s wife writes how badly the “elders” and members of congregations have mistreated her.

She laments the success of Christians who can drive expensive cars. She laments the leadership of the elders. She puts this sight and this writer in her cross-hairs by writing threatening e-mails and threatening posts.

Now she writes to PPB and says that one would have to walk every mile in her shoes to understand her life and her problems

Personally I do not wish to understand another person’s life nor do I care to hear about their problems. I encourage a person to turn their life over to Christ and follow Him. Jesus said, “My yoke is easy and my burden is light.” When one is yoked to Jesus all of life’s burdens become light! Burdens are lifted at Calvary! Cast your cares on Jesus for he cares for you.

I am aware that Christians are to also bear one another’s burdens. The burden must be given to Jesus first! Never attempt to shoulder someone else’s burdens who will not first give them to Jesus.

In Christ,
Jimmy

ps - It's good to see Max posting here. Max is my second favorite musicator! Brian is my first, always hung up on Psalms 150. Peck is my last, the bango is just not one of my favorite instruments.

Jimmy,

Your statement, "She puts this sight and this writer in her cross-hairs by writing threatening e-mails and threatening posts" suggests that you been receiving unsolicited emails from preacher's wife. Is that true? I remember that shortly after Amazed was banned from this site, he sent blistering emails to Donnie Cruz and me (maybe others as well), calling us "liars, cowards, and monkeys in a circus." After that, I put him on my blocked senders list and in essence banned him from emailing me any further. I also have a spam blocker that sends all email from senders who are not in my address book to a "suspect email" box. I then screen who has sent them and decide whether I want to open any message or delete it. But from those whom you wish never to receive another email, the blocked senders list is the way to go.

Is this site an anti-Christ site? Everyone who claims to be a Christian, and shows evidence of Christ in their life is treated horribly.

The woman you call "alleged preacher's wife" has been unfairly ridiculed by all of you. You should either stop and repent, or continue on, but stop your call for Biblical obeservance and church unity.

There is an overtone... No, not an overtone, a blatant air of hypocricy here.

People are just poking fun at the HENsters at faith slighted forum: God said that the singers/musicians at Sinai were LAUGHINGSTOCKS to the outsider so WHY NOT? A few old ladies have made sure that any one who tries to drop some seed other than TARES get the seed plucked up and the planter PECKed out of the coop. I am on my FOURTH new head. If you even quote the Bible one of the prophesied JESTERS just MOONS you trying to divert from truth. They have a cuckoo clock who WALTzes you until you drop dead and NEVER can exegete "JESUS WEPT."

If you quote the BIBLE those who went to Babble School to learn how to do a legalistic loophole around NO PREACHERS or SANGERS on the list in Ephesians 4 FLOG you with SPURS and BOTH wings and PECK you to death. They DO fulfill the PROPHETIC TYPE used by John.

The RIGHT wing of the RULEsters and the left wing of the HENsters make sure that you get the treatment Paul got from the SILVERSMITHS and from the "handlers" of the "female worship minister" who had a PHYTHIAN Spirit. Now, the Pythians were defeated at the Oracle of Delphi where Apollo or Abaddon or Apollyon USED the "muses" or LOCUSTS as his musical worship team: John calls them SORCERERS in Revelation 18.

The left wing is manned by PECKster and MOONbeam (goddess Selene). The Right wing is MANned by S.E.ster: You will notice that the whole SEED is missing even if it didn't get PECKstered like the BIRD demons.

In the legends (with historical basis) by Homer, the holy whore CIRCE or KIRKE gets her name WORSHIPPED each time we say CHURCH. Gad, the hostile tribe and God (demon) of fortune gets worshipped each time we use the generic word GOD. Circe, as defined by John in Revelation 17-18 used MUSIC and DRUGS symbolicof the LOCUSTS or MUSES of Apollyon as SORCERERS. The SIRENS were less DESIRABLE mates of the half-chicken type as HENsters who ruled the roost. The way to keep the SIRENS (whatever the sex) from seducing you with music and "using" you was to use MOLY which is GARLIC. You will notice that the Sirens are REALLY part CHICKKEN:

You don't know this but NIKE is also NICO: So the NicoLaitains are the LAITY being taken captive by NICO. She is the SHE-GOAT who is also named CAPELLA. This it the SELF-PLEASING Paul outlawed from the Assembly because ALL arousal forms of singing with or without instruments are defined as ENCHANTMENTS or SORCERY. Read Rev 18:22f and see if YOU can decode it.

"Demophon, the favourite of Sophocles, once kept as his mistress, when he himself was still young, the 'she-goat' Nico, although she was older. She was nicknamed She-goat because she had once devoured that tall lover, Greensprout Thallu


Delicatus : sermo, Cantu flexiones, soft, tender, delicate: capella (a she goat), Addicted to pleasure; luxurious, voluptuous; and subst., a voluptuary, a wanton, effeminate

The SAD songs they wanted to use to seduce Jesus when they PIPED were tragedies in song and called THE GOAT SONGS: the idea was to pervert you.


"The story is told of Nico, the 'she-goat,' that when a man named Python had at one time abandoned her and taken up with the fat woman Euardis, only, it seems, to send for Nico again at a later time, she said to the slave who came to get her: 'Now that Python has become chockfull of PORK-tenderloin, is he fit to switch round again to GOAT-meat?'"

Capella was once the NURSE of Zeus (Jove/Jupiter) and as ZOE she is the Mother of the Gods.

Now, here is NIKE or the winged victory. It could aso be a picture of HERMES or MERCURY. Some of the new change agents FACILITATING the domination claim that John was not inspired and he got his idea for the LOGOS from Greek philosophy (where they also got the trinity). You will notic that "she" is also PART CHICKEN.

Don't worry: those who have the Captain Apollyon and the Nine Muses Secred Code ring will be able to dial in and interpret. However, Jesus didn't tell them how to decode John or Paul: the see the word SPEAK and it always gets scrambled to mean MAKE MUSIC.

John wrote so that a literate Christian school boy who had grown up hearing Homer recited or other stories would have KNOWN more than any PhDuh knows when they POINTEDLY create a CHURCH INSTITUTION which looks EXACTLY like the one John was warning about in Revelation as the MARK of the end times. You don't have to know the Classics: just know enough that there is NO law of preaching, law of listening to sermons, law of singing or law of Giving. Therefore, when you see these SIGNS know that harvest time is very soon. You just have to be smart enough to see what Jesus EXAMPLED in the synagogue, Paul commanded for the self-assemblers and what the historic church knew.

When a PhDuh tells you a LIE and wants you to PAY him then you know that Hell was prepared for liars. If we can read Isaiah 30 we will aslo know that it was prepared for musical afficters and the MARK that people are being "cornered" for it is the sound of Wind, String and Percussion instruments.

I am actually a leader of the left wing. And you put me up there with Peck. I really do appreciate your compliment. It means a lot.

I was accused of swiping a concept from someone about the sexual seduction in the garden of Eden. I posted the following response and as usual they poured GRACE all over my head accusing me of twisting Scriptures and being like Satan. Same old FaithSlight wrecking crew. Without even giving me a chance to say that I needed to get out of the sand box--especially since Bri-Ann jumped in, they CUT ME off.

Here is what I posted to prove that Paul and all recorded history sees the seduction of Eve as sexual and the "serpent" as a Musical Enchanter the same Ophis in Revelation whose speakers, singers and musicians are called SORCERERS which is the same meaning as the Serpent.

I hardly believe there is enough grace to call posted scripture twisted and Satanic. Here is what gets banned rather than refuted:

FIRST: Any Jewish Scholar would be experts in the prophets which are NOT part of modern New Testament "Christianity." Both Isaiah and Ezekiel identify Tyre with Lucifer in the garden of Eden.

Thou hast BEEN in EDEN the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy TABRETS and of thy PIPES was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13

The king/queen of Babylon adds STRING instruments.

In Isaiah The king/queen of Tyre is identified as the "singing and harp playing prostitute in Eden."

And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot. Isaiah 23:15

Here is the song of the prostitute:

Take an harp , go about the city, thou that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered. Isaiah 23:16

And it shall come to pass after the end of seventy years, that the Lord will visit Tyre, and she shall turn to her hire, and shall commit fornication with all the kingdoms of the world upon the face of the earth. Isaiah 23:17

This is repeated in Revelation 17 and 18 where the Babylon Harlot's operatives: speakers, singers and musicians are called SORERERS by which the world was or is being deceived.

SECONDLY: Paul warned of being BEGUILED by pointing to Eve whom the "Jewish authorities" taught meant a SEXUAL attack.

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to ONE HUSBAND, that I may present you as a CHASTE VIRGIN to Christ.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent BEGUILED Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

Why would Paul MISLEAD you by using a REAL sexual deception to a spiritual deception? Beguiled is the Greek:

G1818 exapatao ex-ap-at-ah'-o From G1537 and G538 ; to seduce wholly:--beguile, deceive.

Liddel and Scott: exapataô deceive or beguile, deceive thoroughly, surround yourself with compassion for your swindling tricks, seduce a woman, Hdt.2.114

http://www.piney.com/Heredotus2.html

"As soon as he received the intelligence, Thonis sent a message to Proteus, who was at Memphis, to this effect: "A stranger is arrived from Greece; he is by race a Teucrian, and has done a wicked deed in the country from which he is come.

Having beguiled the wife of the man whose guest he was, he carried her away with him, and much treasure also. Compelled by stress of weather, he has now put in here. Are we to let him depart as he came, or shall we seize what he has brought?" Proteus replied, "Seize the man, be he who he may, that has dealt thus wickedly with his friend, and bring him before me, that I may hear what he will say for himself."

First, thou didst seduce the wife of thy own host- then,
not content therewith, thou must violently excite her mind,
and steal her away from her husband.

Thirdly: JOHN IDENTIFIED CAIN AS OF THAT WICKED ONE.

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Not as Cain, who was OF THAT WICKED ONE, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brothers righteous. 1 John 3:12

G3834 panourgia pan-oorg-ee'-ah From G3835 ; adroitness, that is, (in a bad sense) trickery or sophistry:(cunning) craftiness, subtilty.

L&S: Panourg-eô dared a righteous crime, to be adulterated,
panourg-ia Knave, rogue, villian

The Enchanters or Seers were the mantis diviner, seer, prophet, .Ag.1202, Ch.559, Eu. 169 (lyr.); ho mantis mantin ekpraxas eme, of Apollo and Cassandra, Id.Ag.1275; of the Pythian priestess, of Dionysus, toude manteôs chorou of this prophetic band, II. a kind of grasshopper, the praying mantis, Mantis religiosa,

These were the Prophesying Muses Paul identified as the UNLEASHED LOCUSTS or grasshoppers!

LOOKING AT 11:3 AGAIN The older scholars saw this as both Adam and Eve sexually handled: Eve was seduced but Adam was led by her. That is because Satan is SHEtain and Lucifer is seen as bisexual.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent BEGUILED Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3

2 Cor 11:3 phoboumai de mê pôs, hôs ho OPIS exêpatêsen Heuan en têi panourgiai autou, phtharêi ta noêmata humôn apo tês haplotêtos [kai tês hagnotêtos] tês eis ton christon.

The serpent or Nachash in Hebrew is OPHIS in Greek:
The serpent was a Musical Enchanter or enchantress.

Phtharêi phtheirô Corrupt

b. seduce a woman, hupo tês thugatros adikoumenon kai Dionusiou tou phtheirantos autên kinaidou

The kinaidou were the

A. catamite, Pl.Grg.494e, etc.: generally, lewd fellow, 2. public dancer

Phtheiro (g5351) fthi'-ro; prob. strength. (to pine or waste): prop. to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil (by any process) or (gen.) to ruin (espec. fig. by mor. influences, to deprave): - corrupt (self), defile, destroy

Phthoggos (g5353) fthong'-gos; from 5350; utterance, i.e. a musical note (vocal or instrumental): - sound.

Phthengomai -utter a sound or voice, of the flute, of the lyre, phorminx, whether it rings sound or cracked, palamêisi to clap with the hands,

We leave it to others to DISPROVE the historic view that this speaks of a SEXUAL ATTACK just as Cain and Able as the theme of the TWO SONS speak of the agriculturists who practiced FERTILITY CULTS while the Shepherd allowed their "gods" move as THEY moved: what God said of Himself.

Now that FaithSite (FS) has apparently rid itself of all "conservative" posters, it seems to be groping for new topics of discussion. The liberals there seem a bit dazed about what topics should be posted, and everybody there is searching. Recent exchanges there anticipated more "mature" discussions, and one liberal poster had compared previous days to being in the "first grade."

It is true that the FS liberals had desired more "debate" and more meaningful discussions, but what they do not, cannot, or will not admit is that when the conservatives provided them with ample opportunities for debate, the liberals howled and resorted to their usual "defense" tactics of hurling insults and personal attacks. I had earlier posted a message there which had compared the liberals' responses to those of little children engaged in arguments. The liberals would first banter back and forth about who was right and wrong, just as children do, then when they could not gain the upper hand over the strong, Bible-believing conservatives, the liberals would start the distractions with name-calling and personal attacks, again just as little children do. Case in point: in referring to conservatives, one liberal "preacher" declared that conservatives wouldn't know grace if it jumped up and "bit them in the butt."

The FS liberals were truly bested by an apparent Muslim, whom the folks there nicknamed "Bod." This man really challenged the liberals' faith to the point that the liberals really knew not how to defend their own Christian faith. They attempted a few scriptural rebuttals, but Bod simply refuted them, and the liberals did not know how to answer. So they again resorted to their worn-out tactics of insults and personal attacks against "Bod" and even solicted the conservatives to help in the "attacks." Bod found the proceedings a bit amusing but remained ever-patient, while most conservatives were of the opinion that since the liberals had declared FS to be "their" site, the ball was in their court, so to speak. Bod even challenged a few liberals to a debate, yet they evaded him; one liberal instead chose to go to bed. Unable to best Bod, the liberals next decided to give him the silent treatment by "ignoring" him (they tried the same on us conservatives). Finally the FS moderators stepped in and banned not only Bod but all conservatives as well.

At FS, the policy now seems to be that if the liberals can't win, they just eliminate the "competition." Not much maturity there, I must say.

Bill,

You want some dinner with that whine?

"At FS, the policy now seems to be that if the liberals can't win, they just eliminate the "competition." Not much maturity there, I must say."

I'm glad that's not the policy here!

Thanks for the offer, but I don't drink. After seeing the performance of you liberals against Bod, how do you like your crow prepared--baked, fried, or stewed? After all, FS is YOUR site, and YOU knuckled under to Bod! I'd hang my head in shame, man.

The real liberal is Dr. Bill Crump. Gets banned, comes back with a new name. Gets his IP recognized. Gets banned, Comes back with a different name yet again, as he cannot accept the rules of Faithsite like most liberals, and then gets banned again.

And like a typical liberal, he whines and whines and whines, about life not being fair, oh woe is me.

Does Max like his CROW baked at 325 degrees or 450 degrees? I need to alert the CM chefs to prepare the dish so he can savor it just right! Maybe we should track down Bod to solicit his suggestions for preparing such a fitting dish for CROW-eating liberals like Max Moon.

I thought the "liberals" at faithsite dealt with Bod very well.
They refuted Biblcally and truthfully everything he had to say.

They treated him as Jesus would, for the most part. He was trying to cause trouble, and they wouldn't let him. I don't know Dr. Crump, what you were looking at, but you're beating your chest as if Bod accomplshed something.

For one, he didn't.
For two, it scares me that IF he had, you would be so proud of an unbeliever.

The liberals at FS attempted to refute Bod, but unfortunately they did not prevail. As I said earlier, they did use some Scripture, but apparently it wasn't enough. Much of their so-called "defense" consisted of name-calling and hurling personal attacks, much like they did when they felt threatened or thought that they were being backed into a corner by the Christian conservatives. Hence, the liberals used terms like: "pagan," "unbeliever," and "son of Satan" against Bod. When that didn't work well, the liberals tried the old silent treatment, again like they did with the conservatives. When that didn't work either, they banned Bod and the conservatives together and just got rid of the "competition." That is, they took the easy way out.

Christians should never be "proud" to see other Christians stumbling to defend their faith. But perhaps being humbled by a non-believer will teach the liberals at FS to study the Word of God more and leave the insults and personal attacks in the school yard.

THE WARNING OF ISRAEL UNDER THE CURSE OF LAW

In the pagan TRINITY, the Father is the SUN: you remember Rubel advising to think of the S.O.N. God as the S.U.N. god and baptizing SANTA the giver of all gifts. Think about Max Lucado and the Cosmic Christmas which has Lucifer forcing God to slip Jesus in as a "vial of light": right out of The Gnostic Gospels.

The MOTHER is the MOON and has some gender confusion.

When God abandoned Israel to worship the STARRY HOST it was the worship of the sun, moon and stars. The "wandering stars" were the planets which seemed to have a mind of their own. God outlawed images of things to be worshipped and assuredly He denounced "the idolatry of talent."

The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: Deut 4:18

And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the Lord thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. Deut 4:19

Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee. Deut 4:23

For the Lord thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. Deut 4:24

The crescent moon also represents the filthy fertility cult of the mother goddess who is called Allah, Circe [church], Venus [Lucifer, Zoe] , Artemis, Aphrodite, Medusa etc., etc.

You may have seen this one on another forum: the moon goddess was usually a man impersonating a female


This is the moon goddess Allah with her hands on the backs of 2 leopards. This statue was found in Catal Huyuk, Turkey, near the city of Ephesus. Of course, the people in control in Jerusalem were NOT Israelites and Jesus refused to speak the good news except in parables (sto;; fools most "christians"). John refused to baptize them and identified the as a generation or RACE of vipers. The offspring of Abraham through Hagar are identified with Egypt, Mount Sinai, Jerusalem and Sodom (John 18).

The pagan trinity consisted of the worship of the sun, moon and stars.


After the Flood of Noah, the younger generation of "triads" of Gods made too much noise and the father "god" decided to destroy them all. Ea, the patron God of music [Same symbols as Lamech] engaged the FATHER GOD with little trouble. However, Tiamat (Tehowm) was a frightful goddess who made a host of ugly demons to help her. They called on Nimrod who agreed to dispatch the MOTHER GODDESS but only if they agreed that he dould be the SUPREME god. He, of course, was a great hunter AGAINST God.

He established the worship of the sun, moon and stars. Nimrod was a giant of a man who organized the people into communities [communes] and was highly skilled as a hunter of the fast multiplying wild animals. He built the Tower of Babel as an astrological observatory and there God confounded their language and scattered the people to the ends of the earth. His plan was to prevent the evil god from ever sending another flood and therefore used bitumen and fired bricks to make it a water-proof tower.

This is much like the Genun story as a composite of Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain and Naaman. Remember that Jubal HANDLED instruments WITHOUT WARRANT and in a sexual sense. This same story appears in The Book of Enoch often quoted in the New Testament and defines these PERVERTED musicians under Satan as those for whom God will come with ten thousand of His saints or angels. They are under the same MOTHER GODDESS in Revelation 17 and the speakers, singers and musicians are accused by John of being SORCERERS who deceived THE WHOLE WORLD.

Phallus worship was an important part of the system with the obelisk representing the male member. If you will read the Isaiah 58 thread--which is repeated MANY TIME--you will see that the worship in JERUSALEM and now in your churches was this same perverted worship and why not: that is what God SENTENCED them to.

According to the Jewish historian Josephus, Nimrod was punished for his rebellion by Shem, one of the sons of Noah. He cut Nimrod's body into many pieces and sent it to the surrounding people as a warning against idolatry.

Nimrod's wide Semiramis, the Queen of Babylon, collected all the parts of his body except for his penis. She ordered phallic symbols or obelisks to be set up everywhere as a reminder to the people to mourn for Nimrod.

The Jews worshipped Tammuz or Adonis who means that you have to be subservient to Inanna or Semiramis or other MOTHER GODDESS in a sexual sense. SHE was the only not in history about navigating THE GATES OF HELL. Her symbol was a DOVE and that is why the PARABLE appearance of something LIKE a dove or DESCENDING like a dove. It rested on Jesus who was pronounced as the SON of a FATHER or Patriarchal God. Zoe is the Gnostic name for the same goddess who made the dumb "jehovah and logos" worship she and mother Sophia by FORMING MUSICAL WORSHIP teams. To worship WHOM? Why, to worship the MOTHER GODDESS and DAUGHTER and that is where you are at the end of the SIXTH DAY.

Another name for Nimrod was Tammuz. The cross comes from the letter T. In Israel the women mourned for Nimrod or Tammuz. It was a kind of Lent:

1 Kings 7:21And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin: and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz

Then he (God) brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz" (Ezekiel 8:14).

This is the same as the Osiris legend in Egypt and who was worshipped as the universal trinity of "father, mother and infant son" under Apis the golden calf at Mount Sinai. For the musical idolatry of this TRINITY God removed Grace from them and turned them over to LAW: the more musical the more WORKS INTENSIVE and therefore more legalistic. The word for law or NOMOS was identified as the MUSICAL worship teaching the laws of APOLLO who is Apollyon and his TEAM are the LOCUSTS or MUSES come to sting you.

AN END-TIME REPEAT.

Paul warned against this continuing paganism and especially linked it to the "sound of the trumpets" at Mount Sinai which had them telling God: "Don't speak to us anymore."

Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: Heb 12:28

For the Lord For our God is a consuming fire. Heb 12:29

Job who lived about 2,000 B.C. warned:

If I beheld the sun when it shined, or the moon walking in brightness. This also were an iniquity to be punished by the judge: for I should have denied the God that is above" (Job 31:26-28).

Confession is good for lost souls. This DOVE has both a LEFT and a RIGHT wing: any time you see performers as rhetoricians, singers or musicians then Jesus identifies you as "hypocrites" and the truly literate even then identified them as "parasites" which was the name of the musicians who aided the priests in the Greek sacrificial systems. We call the a capella singers which means GOAT SINGERS and Ala Castratos in the Pope's Sistine Chapel. Especially when they sing sentimental songs they are PAN's known as the BEAST in Revelation.

Revelation 18 and all of the Bible identifies you as operatives for the MOTHER GODDESS and God knows, no FaithSlight.Com forum or most churches could operated without declaring themselves a TESTESTERONE FREE ZONE. I am certain that a MOTHER GODDESS has ascended to the HIGH PLACE. I notice that all of the "males" are bowing to Baalat.

Doctor, perhaps you would like to inform the readers of Concerned Members that you refused to defend the name of Jesus Christ against this person named Bod. In fact, you took his side in his presentation of his mystic religion. You chided and harrassed those who ably defended the name of Christ.

You continue to be an embarrassment to Churches of Christ.

Perhaps Tom will admit that he as one of the FS liberals failed to defend Christ against Bod. He should be absolutely ashamed that he could not refute Bod adequately. As one of those who claimed FS as his site, it was Tom's responsibility first and foremost. He and the other liberals consistently scorned us conservatives (who BTW allow Tom to post here at CM while the liberals keep us out of FS), then when Tom and the liberals were sinking at the hand of Bod, he screamed for us conservatives to "help" him "attack" Bod. Tom should know never to try to pass the buck because of his own weaknesses and inadequacies. He is responsible for himself, and he failed against Bod. Unfortunately, he's now got to live with that.

You picked the wrong profession, you should have been a comedian. You are a riot!

I think that both the lawyer and doctor missed the perfectly obvious:

The new FEMINIST modulator--I think her name is PMS--didn't have the basic knowledge to grasp that BOD was either a false teacher or a great heckler.

I think that you could get by with any kind of hate crime until you "touched god's annointeds" named Shelly and Lucado etal who are further off base than Bod.

Not to worry: I doubt that more than a handfull even bother to read the stuff over there. Since Donnie and I have gotten the albatros off our necks I have seen some day counts on the MAD thread exceed 500 and at one time it went closer to a 1,000.

I peek in once in a while but not TOO often: I giggle all day and it hurts my sore ribs too much. Looks like even the old HENS and the HEAD PECKER don't bother too much.

I am going to prove on the MAD thread to answer some BRAMBLE road chides that DAVID was the NEGATIVE model of what Jesus was prophesied NOT TO DO. What was that? Just watch the musical churches and you will see a Branch of the David's and NOT remotely related to the SPIRITUAL David who CALLS NO ASSEMBLIES.

Therefore, they have TOTAL AUTHORITY to strip off naked and PLAY with the camp followers IF they use David for their musical authority.

Unfortunately, Tom is resorting to the usual liberal tactic of name-calling because he lost. Now I realize that down deep inside, Tom is angry, hurt, ashamed, bitter, and dispirited because he couldn't hold his own against Bod, and it's somewhat natural that he try to make himself look good by vainly attempting to make someone else look bad. So he lashes out at conservatives. But that's not a very mature way to behave. Tom really does need to get a grip on his life and get his emotions under control. It ain't too healthy to remain in a tizzy all the time!

So to help with that, I have a very important question to ask Tom: Does he prefer to eat CROW that's baked at 350 degrees or 425 degrees? Maybe Tom can get together with Max Moon, who's also having to eat CROW as a result of his failure with Bod, and decide. Better yet, since ALL the liberals at FS are having to eat CROW because they all failed with Bod, let them put ALL their heads together and decide which is the best temperature to bake the CROW with which they must stuff themselves.

Doctor, one is extremely ignorant on your part is calling me a "liberal." If you had read any of my posts, you would know that I agree with you on instrmental music and baptism. It is just that you come across as such an arrogant twit that NO ONE will listen to you.

The reason that you were banned was not that you presented a conservative opinion. (And by the way, I had nothing to do with your being banned.) Your opinions were welcomed, as I believe, were mine. However, you have a way of aggravating anyone that you attempt to engage in conversation.

The facts are clear. A person came to the Faithsite website presenting neo-Eastern, Muslim religion tied somewhat in with bits of Christianity. He denied the divinity of Christ. Most on the board took issue with his beliefs and did a GOOD job of presenting the basics of Christianity. You choose not to defend you Savior and, instead, choose to belittle, deride and chastise those who defended the divinity of Christ.

Evidently, you thought you could do a better job. That may be so, but you NEVER, NOT ONCE chose to attempt to teach this lost person. Nor, have you EVER shown to ANYONE the great revelation that you have on how to convert this lost soul. You probably had your one and only chance to impart your great wisdom to this lost soul and the simple truth is you passed it up. Perhaps something that one who DID choose to defend Christ will cause some thinking to take part in Bod's mind, just perhaps. All I know is that it will not be because of anything you choose to say to him.

Sorry, pushed the "Respond" button rather than the "Preview" button. Here is the corrected version....

Doctor, it is extremely ignorant on your part to call me a "liberal." If you had read any of my posts, you would know that I agree with you on instrumental music and baptism, to name a few topics. It is just that you come across as such an obnoxious, arrogant twit that NO ONE will listen to you.

The reason that you were banned was not that you presented a conservative opinion. (And by the way, I had nothing to do with your being banned.) Your opinions were welcomed, as I believe, were mine. However, you have a way of aggravating anyone that you attempt to engage in conversation.

The facts are clear. A person came to the Faithsite website presenting a neo-Eastern mystic, Muslim religion tied loosely in with bits of Christianity. He denied the divinity of Christ. Most on the board took issue with his beliefs and did a GOOD job of presenting the basics of Christianity. You chose not to defend your Savior and, instead, chose to belittle, deride and mock those who defended the divinity of Christ.

Evidently, you thought you could do a better job. That may be so, but you NEVER, NOT ONCE chose to teach this lost person. Nor, did you EVER show to ANYONE the great revelation that you have on how to convert this lost soul. You probably had your one and only chance to impart your great wisdom to this lost soul and the simple TRUTH is you passed it up.

Perhaps something said by one who DID choose to defend Christ will cause some thinking to take part in Bod's mind, just perhaps. All I know is that it will NOT be because of ANYTHING you chose to say to him, and THAT you can not deny.

The CM chefs have that CROW roastin' in their ovens and will be ready in a little while to serve to Tom and all the other fine liberals at FS who failed over Bod. My, but it do have a rather gamey smell. Of course, I've never tasted CROW, so Tom and the others will have to let us know what it's like. Maybe the taste is similar to snake, rat, weasel, or polecat. But since I've never tasted any of them either, I await the soon-to-be "experts" to tell us.

[Aside to Ken Sublett: Yeah, I figured Bod was some kind of heckler trying to pull the legs of the FS liberals. And he not only pulled their legs, he tore them clean off! So that's why we conservatives didn't pay Bod too much mind. But the theatrical hyperbole generated by the self-righteous liberals over Bod was just too much!]

Doctor, thanks for not responding to my points. That says a great deal of your character.

I wonder if Tom decided what that CROW tasted like, anyway. The world was kinda waitin' to know, you know.

Bill Crump,
Are you really a doctor?
Really?
Like, a doctor of medicine? It would make me sick to my stomach to think the guy comnig in the room to practice medicine on me was involved in the above exchange. You should be ashamed of yourself.

First of all, I've been to Faithsite, and "Bod" was dealt with in an effective and Godly way. He lost, and hasn't been back.

I think it's ironic that you are critical of faithsite's "banning" people who disagree with them. That is this site's most defining characteristic.

Either way, this crow stuff you're talking about makes you look stupid. #1- because it's not true. Anyone who knows what you're talking about, knows that Bod lost and no one you're attacking ever ate crow over it.
#2- You're supposedly an adult, even a "doctor" (if you really are a doctor), and adults- doctors in particular, don't engage in such asanine talk.

"Bod" hasn't been back to FS, because he as well as the other conservatives posting there were banned. You can't say that someone "lost" the argument because they were banned. The moderators just took the easy way out over there and eliminated the competition, simple as that. Bod got the best of the liberals, the liberals whined about it, so the moderators banned Bod, simple as that. The moderators there wanted a "closed society" of liberals, so they banned everyone who didn't post like typical liberals, simple as that.

Since the conservatives were booted out, FS has remained rather quiet, and the liberals there still admit that they are groping for topics. It should be clear that if the FS moderators really want a busy, active, site, they know what to do and whom to bring back!

Belittling me and my profession may bolster "Nadab's" ego, but it only provides a false sense of superiority. Insults and personal attacks are nothing more than marks of immaturity; those who use them do so because they know that they lack legitimate rebuttal. Just remember that those who resort to insults and personal attacks have already lost the argument.

BTW, I take it that "Nadab" was also one of the FS liberals whom Bod bested. This would explain his defensive attitude and his revulsion of the CROW that he also ate with Tom, Max, and the other FS liberals.

I haven't eaten any crow.
And no Faithsite Conservatives were banned.
"Bod" and the Faithsite Liberals were banned.

Dr. Bill Crump got banned not once, not twice, but thrice!
And it was all for being LIBERAL.

And he didn't have to eat crow, oh no! He had to eat a
banned sandwich, and it was a triple decker!

Dr. Bill "Faithsite Liberal" Crump can whine all day long about how
he is a conservative, but only LIBERALS like him whine like
broken-hearted 12 yr old school girls.

Don't try this is you still do FaithSlight.Con: it will break your brains.

Jesus said that truth had been hidden in PARABLES from a certain RACE or generation from the foundation of the world. A parable does not mean that events did not happen in history: it just means that YOU are not going to have a clue if you intend to CORRUPT the word which means "sell learning at retail" or "adultery." Forget it, forget it, forget it: if you are PAYING you are not going to get it: if you are CHARGING you already have IT but don't know it.

"When Satan is spoken of or uses a "serpent", it is the figure Hypocatastasis (pronounced; hi-poe-ca-tas-ta-sis) or Implication; it no more means a snake than it does when Dan is so called in Gen. 49. 17; or an animal when Nero is called a "lion" (2 Tim.4.17), or when Herod is called a "fox" (Luke 13.32); or when Judah is called "a lion's whelp". It is the same figure when "doctrine" is called "leaven" (Matt.16.6). It shows that something much more real and truer to truth is intended. If a Figure of speech is thus employed, it is for the purpose of expressing the truth more impressively; and is intended to be a figure of something much more real than the letter of the word.

YOU still are not going to get it out of anyone who "gits up a lessun" or "spends all week writing a sermon." Forget it, forget it, forget it.

A figure of speech must not be tampered with: by adding or leaving out a word you commit the EVE FALLACY. The DIRECT COMMAND was to speak "that which is written" or "scripture" or Psalms, hymns and spiritual songs ALL of which have been delivered to the saints. If the SERMONIZE it or VERSIFY it they ARE FORCED to add to or subtract from and history knows that you never trust "rhetoricians or poets" to be KERUSSO meaning presbyters or ambassadors or heralds with an important message.

If you are paying a preacher who insists that the whole universe was created 6,000 years ago you need to fire him: you are literally MANUFACTURING unbelievers. The Bible and all contemporeaneous literature know fully well that the earth has gone through many "ages" and Genesis speaks of REcreating the "fruitful" or dry places and does not speak of the GLOBE or the billions of stars in billion of galaxies just in "our field of view." Nor, does the Bible give any hope for the "drowning" of either Satan or His SEED in the flood. The early Babylonian Literature proves that what caused the last destruction began all over again.

Doesn't that answer: "Where did Cain get his wife?" He got her from those other people among whom he would be a vagabond and who would be so different that they would kill him!

Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

The EARTH was that special "fruitful place" God created for His special race of people. Cain would have to LEAVE the FACE of the Earth and go outside of that protected area. Who is that EVERYONE who would want to murder this person? God accepted that there were EVERYONE out there! In reality, those who have not been converted, according to Paul in 2 Cor. 3, are in the land of NOD or WANDERING because they cannot see the FACE OF GOD: Only those born of water and spirit can ENTER or SEE the kingdom.

Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark [sign of assent] upon Cain [from to strike a musical note], lest any finding him should kill him.

This was a mark which would STRIKE FEAR in people: music does that to people as NOD means wandering:

H7013 qayin kah'-yinFrom H6969 in the original sense of fixity; a lance (as striking fast): spear.

H6969 Qun koon A primitive root; to strike a musical note, that is, chant or wail (at a funeral):lament, mourning woman.

Interesting that Cedar has the same duel meaning, and a lifeless instrument is a CARNAL WEAPON in Paul's writing.

Berowsh (h1265) ber-osh'; of uncert. der.; a cypress (?) tree; hence a lance or a musical instrument (as made of that wood): - fir (tree).

Howl, FIR tree; for the CEDAR is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down. Zec.11:2

The SEDUCTRESSES in Amos are the "Cows of Bashan." Bashan is Ugaritic: Bashan was the place of the serpent, or seed of the serpent, the nephilim offspring, Nachash "snake, serpent" with nshk "bite" provides a link between two verses in Amos speaking of the impossibility of escape 5:19 and 9:3. Interesting that the cows in Amos and the MUSIC is parallel to the wine, women and music in Isaiah 5 which is RESPONSIBLE for changing and REMOVING the word of God.

Gen 4:16 And Cain went OUT from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did Cain find his wife: certainly just about anywhere he might NOD or WANDER from THE FACE OF THE EARTH which is the same as from THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD . That means that Cain found his wife from among those who had not been separated by God into a "paradise" place into which the NACHASH or VIPER people could not even enter. How did the serpent get INTO the "church" or "set aside place?" That is another story which is answered in the legends pre-Moses. For now, he used Eve.

It cannot be denied: the Bible identifies TWO RADICALLY DIFFERENT generations or races of people who inhabit our present earth. In additon. the Bible identifies WOLVES in sheep's clothes and "principalities and powers in high places." He said that you cannot FIGHT these powers by using what EVERYONE recognizes from the Bible and ALL literature as CARNAL WEAPONS or LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS. Only the Word of God is the offensive and defensive weapons against the SENSE-WEAPONS used by Satan.

We have shown that Lucifer (ZOE etal) was the "singing and harp playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden and SHE is the prostitute CHURCH prophesied for now and SHE uses "speakers, singers and musicians" as SORCERERS. The MILLSTONE also carries the flutting or sounds of the milstone which MARKED the place to find the PROSTITUTES with here legs already spread.

Satan is SHEtan and Lucifer is bisexual but primarily female.

Gen 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


H342 eybah ay-baw' From H340 ; hostility enmity, hatred

H340 Ayab aw-yab' A primitive root; to hate (as one of an opposite tribe or party); hence to be hostile:be an enemy

The concept of ARABS does not identify Muslims but the sectarians in Jerusalem claimed to be of the SEED of Abraham but they were NOT Israelites: they were, in fact "Hagar, Egypt, Mount Sinai, Jerusalem, Sodom."

DSS War Rules: [ . . . ] )8[ . . . ] 19[ . . . which ] 20 [,, . they shall write . . . the trumpets of Col. 3 the battle formations, and the trumpets for assembling them when the gates of the war are opened so that the infantry might advance, the trumpets for the signal of the slain, the trumpets of 2 the ambush, the trumpets of pursuit when the enemy is defeated, and the trumpets of reassembly when the battle returns.

And when they began to sing and to praise, the Lord set AMBUSHMENTS against the children of Ammon, Moab, and mount Seir, which were come against Judah; and they were smitten. 2 Chron 20: 22


H694 Arab ar-awb' From H693 ; ambush; Arab, a place in Palestine: Arab.

H693 Arab aw-rab' A primitive root; to lurk: (lie in) ambush (-ment), lay (lie in) wait

H697 'arbeh ar-beh' From H7235 ; a locust (from its rapid increase): grasshopper, locust.


Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

The word "SEED" of the SERPENT has the same meaning as the SEED of Eve. Therefore, in the very beginning--to those not blinded--the Bible identifies a hostile race of people who inhabited the earth before the garden QUARANTINED a new creation from what already existed outside of that enclave. This is the picture of the Church of Christ which quarantines the "school of the Bible" from the world's "worship rituals": only THERE can they eat of the tree of LIFE while the GNOSTICS outside are feeding on self-knowledge of the flesh.

The Bible is a summarized document which defines the history of the world including the TYPES or races of people and the ways their conflict plays out in all professions, governments and religions ALL of which are means of taking people CAPTIVE for their own USES: the meaning of HERESY which is achieved and outlawed by Paul as the PLEASURING of letting someome create MENTAL EXCITEMENT or the laded burden Jesus defined as "spiritual anxiety created by religious rituals." ALL of those burden laders are ARABS or LOCUSTS which in the classics and Revelation identify the MUSICAL ENCHANTERS now under Apollyon or Abaddon whose SEEKER CENTER can still be seen.

Jesus confirms BOTH the nature of the BIBLE and the nature of the SEED.

Mt 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

The SHEtans or muses or sorcerers or musical enchanters (serpents) will be MARKED by singing PRAISE songs to praise themselves and to AMBUSH you to "take away the key to knowledge."

Psa 78:2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:

A parable is:

Mashal (h4912) maw-shawl'; appar. from 4910 in some orig. sense of superiority in mental action; prop. a pithy maxim, usually of a metaphorical nature; hence a simile (as an adage, poem, discourse): - byword, like, parable, proverb.

Chiydah (h2420) khee-daw'; from 2330; a puzzle; hence a trick, conundrum, sententious maxim: - dark saying (sentence, speech), hard question, proverb, riddle.

Psa 78:3 Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.

Psa 78:4 We will not HIDE them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the PRAISES of the Lord, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.

The Psalms in HEBREWS means PRAISES and has nothing to do with instruments. Therefore, the approved example of Jesus, the direct command of Paul and the historic practice of the church was to PRAISE God with the PRAISES inspired by "the Spirit of Christ." This included much of the Bible written in metrical form SPECIFICIALLY to make READING and TEACHING and ADMONISHING one another easier.

Therefore, the PRAISE SINGERS or ENCOMIASTS are heretics and the SORCERERS: McClintock and Stron identify them as "the first heresy largely pervading the church." And indeed, no one added singing for hundreds of years.

Don't PAY the vipers to HIDE that which WE HAVE HEARD which is the ONLY way to praise God.

Mt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

In passing the TARES were the source of ERGO or other hallucins which gave you VISONS and was used by the musical PROPHESIERS to see visions and hear voices.

Mt 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;

Mt 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

Mt 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Mt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

WE cannot remove the TARES from the world but we CAN tell the difference between one and the other. When the harvest comes the tiny tare seed can be sifted and separated. We assuredly can never be excused for HIRING a TARE SOWER identified by the "creation of mental excitement" in "worship."

Mt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend [bend the bow: stumbling blocks: skandalon], and them which do iniquity;[violate the law]

Mt 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing [singing is wailing] and gnashing of teeth.

Mt 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Jude quotes The Book of Enoch who declares that THOSE FOR WHOM God in Jesus Christ shall come with ten thousand angels are SPECIFICIALLY Satan and the "youth" He used to deceive the world with mixed-sex choirs, musical instruments, sexual dress (authentia authority Paul outlawed) and other ENCHANTMENTS.

http://www.piney.com/ApocEnoch1.html

Isaiah 30 proves that Tophet or the 'king's music grove' as a symbol of hell itself was specificially prepared for the musical deceivers and those whom they were able to deceive.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

ALL of the evidence including the prophecy of ENOCH of something to happen far, far in the future proves that the EVIL SEED are still growing. If you DENY that Satan as the "angel of light" or PREACHER IN THE MOST POPULAR PULPITS are agents of Satan then you MUST believe that the Devil is a fool. You also have to call Paul a liar for saying that THE SEED OF GOD will be OUTSIDE these "venues for Rock and Roll" and suffering reproaches with out Lord. You MUST then believe the speaking and musical liars who KNOW how easy the blind can be led who PROMISE you that they are going to bring JESUS ON THE STAGE: one of the oldest scams in history.

How is it that MUSICAL ENCHANTERS are really able to ENCHANT and CHANT you out of your pants: You, the urban sophisticated ever so wise? Would you drink the KoolAid? Of course you would if someone told you that God told them to tell you to do that. That is why God calls you sheep not able to get in out of a shower of stuff.

The mumblers at FaithSlight.con hallucinate that a CONSERVATIVE is a legalist: probably because they are afflicted with reading whole THOUGHT PATTERNS rather than, like father RasPuttin, being LIBERAL by just quoting what suits him. In the classical sense, a LIBERAL does not believe in inspiration and the FaithLess prove that by twisting Scripture. A conservative believes in inspiration and the authority of the Scriptures. The Illiterates who have not learned enough yet to be a liberal, preaches at every opportunity that ALLOWING God to convey His will by "commands, examples and inferences" was INVENTED by the neo-conservatives. When they get book learned enough to become a liberal they will understand that this is taught in the BIBLE and by all known historical scholars. The Catholics and Stoneites give themselves the liberty to just DO IT without need for authority.

Historically being LIBERAL does not mean PERMISSIVE. Rather a liberal, like Paul's command to Timothy, is that he WORKS to be able to sponsor the agape--feeding the destitute on their way to look for a day wage. Remember, if you KNOW just Christ and Him crucified you will remember that if you follow in HIS steps, you will grasp that means NOT to be ministered to BUT to minister to others. Jesus FED the poor: remember, remember, remember?

A minister actually goes out and works to have something to give to the destitute and then TEACHES (dialogs) at night when THEY have free time to learn.

The poor or DESTITUTE is what the "laying by in store" was limited to. No liberal would impose some works-intensive burden on people already stressed out from their 6 days: Jesus was liberal in giving REST from the laded burden which outlaws creating any MENTAL EXCITEMENT claiming that it attracts a Spirit God who does nto judge by what he sees and hears (Isaiah 11) Many of the chapters of isaiah identify FALSE religions before explaing the TRUE liberal shepherd who FEEDS the sheep.

The vile person shall be no more called liberal <voluntary, that is, generous; hence, magnanimous>, nor the churl said to be bountiful. Isa 32:5

A VILE PERSON IS LIKE THE THE WITCH OF ENDOR OR THE SOUNDING BRASS OF 1 COR. 13.

Nabal (h5036) naw-bawl'; from 5034; stupid; wicked (espec. impious): - fool (-ish, -ish man, -ish woman), vile person.

Nabel (h5034) to wilt; gen. to fall away, fail, faint; fig. to be foolish... make vile, wither..

Nebel (h5035) from 5034; a skin- bag for liquids (from collapsing when empty); hence a vase (as similar in shape when full); also a lyre (as having a body of like form): - bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol

This has the same meaning as the Familiar Spirit of the Witch of Endor which was an empty wineskin she used as an echo chamber to mubble a spell to tell the ignorant that her own amplified voice was the DEMON: she got fooled. History warns that when you PRETEND to get "mad" and claim that the spirit is speakiing to you the EVIL SPIRITS frequently steal in to MISLEAD you: that is what happend when Saul "prophesied." When the Zoeites CALL DOWN THE FIRES that is exactly what God is doing even as they sing: Isaiah 30 proves that ALL nations when they are being driven into Topheth (the king's music grove and HELL) they will HEAR the sounds of wind, string and percussion instruments. John says this is because they are SORCERERS under the Mother Goddess (Sophia mother of Zoe).

The vile HARP is also the same as the booming gongs of 1 Corinthians 13 as hi-tek echo chambers or amplifiers. By placing different sizes around the theater they became a virtual PIPE ORGAN by amplifying various tones of the singers or speakers. Paul called them Lifeless Instruments or Carnal Weapons.

A GOOD LIBERAL does not TAKE anything:

Nadiyb (h5081) naw-deeb'; from 5068; prop. voluntary, i. e. generous; hence, magnanimous; as noun, a grandee (sometimes a tyrant): - free, liberal (things), noble, prince, willing (hearted).

For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the Lord,

to make empty the soul of the hungry,
and he will cause the DRINK of the thirsty to FAIL. Isaiah 32:6

Amos and Isaiah 5 connect the WORD--HUNGER AND THIRST directly to singing and instruments.

Villany is:

Nebalah (h5039) neb-aw-law'; fem. of 5036; foolishness, i. e. (mor.) wickedness; concr. a crime; by extens. punishment: - folly, vile, villany.

Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have
committed adultery with their neighbours wives, and
have spoken LYING words in my name,
which I have NOT commanded them;,
even I know and am a witness, saith the Lord. Je.29:23

Click below to see Ezekiel (not covered under PhDuh) warned after he warned about the women lamenting for Tammuz in the temple and the men holding their sun-rise service.
http://www.piney.com/MuEzek13.html

You will remember that the Songs and Sermons have been writen by The Spirit OF Christ (2 Cor 3, 1 Pet 1:11, Rev 19:10). They have been once delivered by the Apostle-Prophets in a mouth to mouth or face to face way and Peter said that if they DON'T speak that delivered Word it is a MARK that they are a false prophet. Any preacher who denies that God has the same right THEY have is a false teacher: don't feed him, all history calls the speakers, singers and musicians both hypocrites and PARASITES.

The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right. Isa 32:7

And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments
of a foolish (vile) shepherd. Zech 11:15

Instruments (h3627) kel-ee'; from 3615; artillery, bag, instrument,
jewel, that is made of, psaltery, weapon,

For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which
shall NOT visiT those that be cut off,
neither shall seek the young one,
nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still:

but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and
tear their claws in pieces. Zech 11:16

Woe to the IDOL shepherd that leaveth the flock
the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye:
his arm shall be clean dried up, and
his right eye shall be utterly darkened. Zech 11:17

he DEVISETH wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.

Paul said that the MANY teachers plaguing the new churches were mercinary and Peter said that the MOSTLY preachers CORRUPT the Word: that means to SELL TEACHING AT RETAIL. They just DEVISETH their own songs and sermos so that, like the Pharisees, they can SELL them for a higher bag of FLEECE. These PROPHECY SELLERS in Ezekiel 13, including women, went to the workshops of evil to STEAL WORDS ONE FROM ANOTHER. Then they "made souls fly" which along with "prophesying" implicated the use of singing and instruments to seduce what Lucian of Samosata called "fat heads and simpletons" by blowing the flute.

For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins:
they afflict the just, they take a bribe [collections], and
they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right. Am.5:12

Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs;
for I will not hear the melody of thy viols. Amos 5:23

That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes;
yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat? Am.8:6

And I will turn your feasts into mourning,
and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth
upon all loins, and baldness upon every head;
and I will make it as the mourning of an only son,
and the end thereof as a bitter day. Amos 8:10

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send
a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
but of hearing the words of the Lord: Amos 8:11

But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand. Isa 32:8

Rise up, ye women that are at ease; hear my voice, ye careless daughters; give ear unto my speech. Isa 32:9

Many days and years shall ye be troubled, ye careless women: for the vintage shall fail, the gathering shall not come. Isa 32:10

Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins. Isa 32:11

They shall lament for the teats, for the pleasant fields, for the fruitful vine. Isa 32:12

Upon the land of my people shall come up thorns and briers; yea, upon all the houses of joy in the joyous city: Isa 32:13

A TRUE shepherd NEVER leads them into the SOUNDS OF RUSHING WATERS but to REST beside QUIET waters. Jesus DIED to give us rest FROM the religious rituals which ALWAYS create great stress if someone promises to bring you into the presence of a Deity.

Those who "sing where the Bible sings" are the TRUE liberals because they do not impose the CLERGY BURDEN which means "spiritual anxiety" and the "extra tax not in time of war." This BURDEN is defined by both Hebrew and GREEK as SINGING.

Music is CONSERVATIVE in that it attempts to hang on to that which began in the garden of Eden and fueled ancient Babylon. Scholars speaking of the BREAK UP of modern "christendon" such as Joseph Campbell note that when people LOSE FAITH in their religion they CRACK AWAY to the Archaic. Revelation 18 identifies the ancient Babylon religion for the end time where the speakers, singers and musicians are accused by John with practicing sorcery BY WHICH the nations are deceived.

We had a 700 count day at CM this week: too bad that you guys and dolls have to mubble to one another in the middle of a PMS FIT.

All the FS liberals ate CROW and are still eating it every time they bring up the subject of Bod. They'll deny it, swear they haven't touched it, won't confess to choking it down, but the fact remains that they ATE CROW because Bod got the best of them, or bested them. Once again, ya got bested, buds. It's a stark reality, but reality it is, friends and neighbors. Now I realize that it's wretchedly shameful and they won't own up to it, but we all know what happened between Bod and the FS liberals. When the libs couldn't win against a superior debater like Bod, who knew his faith better than the libs knew theirs, they simply got rid of the competition to "save face." And now the libs are eternally bent on riding the conservatives because of the libs' own shortcomings. Pretty low way to go. What the libs should do is study the Word of God much more earnestly so that they will be better prepared to tackle someone like Bod in the future. But hey, if all the libs desire is to pursue their insulting and reviling the conservatives, it proves they haven't learned a thing from their experience with Bod.

Those who won't pay attention to history are bound to repeat it.

I haven't eaten any crow.
And no Faithsite Conservatives were banned.
"Bod" and the Faithsite Liberals were banned.

Dr. Bill Crump got banned not once, not twice, but thrice!
And it was all for being LIBERAL.

And he didn't have to eat crow, oh no! He had to eat a
banned sandwich, and it was a triple decker!

Dr. Bill "Faithsite Liberal" Crump can whine all day long about how
he is a conservative, but only LIBERALS like him whine like
broken-hearted 12 yr old school girls.

So does Max want some special sauce with his next serving of CROW?

Doctor, please let us all know when you acquire some character. Maybe then we can have an adult discussion with you.

All dear liberal friend Tom could do at FS was join his liberal buddies in ridiculing, reviling, and complaining about my posts of TRUTH. To Tom, I'm just an "embarrassment to the Church of Christ," and since I have no doubt that he gave a nod to have all the conservatives removed from FS, what ever in the world would give me the asinine notion that Tom suddenly wants to have a so-called "discussion" with an "embarrassment," of all people? HUH? Talk about being a "riot," Tom.

So let Tom continue to eat his CROW with a dessert of HUMBLE PIE and bird variations of donuts, or CROWnuts.

Oh, MIN MOON, there is no WHINING? Getting booted from FaithSlight.Con is the ultimate goal. I haven't had as much validation since I was refused membership in the MONOSYL SOCIETY in High School. I am truly happy that there remains a SLIGHT so about a dozen or so hits keeps some people off the streets. I had to work really hard to get kicked out of the sand box the third time. You do know that this is not a real site: they were happy to give it to YTBH or PMS or some other feminazi to be the MODULATOR. It's a JOKE, max, a JOKE: don't you get it?

Now, there is no one left in the cage, including preachers, who can grasp that there is NO KNOWN literature which does not associate MUSIC with people who are DOOMED: Even if Rasputin could quote Psalm 150 150 times. Here is a document attributed to James and it agrees with ALL of the Bible and ALL known literature:

He was that one whom he who created the heaven and the earth and dwelled in it, did not see. He was this one who is the life. He was the light. He was that one who will come to be. And again he shall provide an end for what has begun, and a beginning for what is about to be ended.

He was the Holy Spirit and the Invisible One, who did not descend upon the earth. He was the virgin, and that which he wishes, happens to him. I saw that he was naked, and there was no garment clothing him. That which he wills, happens to him [...].

"Renounce this difficult way, which is (so) variable,

and walk in accordance with him who desires that you become free men with me, after you have passed above every dominion.

For he will not judge (you) for those things that you did, but will have mercy on you. For (it is) not you that did them, but it is your Lord (that did them). He was not a wrathful one, but he was a kind Father.

"But you have judged yourselves, and because of this you will remain in their fetters. You have oppressed yourselves, and you will repent, (but) you will not profit at all. Behold him who speaks and seek him who is silent. Know him who came to this place, and understand him who went forth (from it).

I am the Just One, and I do <not> judge. I am not a master, then, but I am a helper. He was cast out before he stretched out his hand. I [...].

"[...] and he allows me to hear.

And play your trumpets, your flutes and your harps of this house.

The Lord has taken you captive from the Lord,

having closed your ears, that they MAY NOT HEAR the sound of my word.

IT'S THE MARK and YOU didn't even hear the trumpet voice heard around the world.

Make sense that if you play instruments you cannot hear the Words of Jesus? Self evident except for those already deaf and blind! Make sense that you REFUSE to hear His words when you hear Twila Paris or the teeny-weeny erotic praise songs COMMISSIONED by diverting the Widow's Money?

Yet you will be able to pay heed in your hearts, and you will call me 'the Just One.' Therefore, I tell you: Behold, I gave you your house, which you say that God has made - that (house) in which he promised to give you an inheritance through it.

This (house) I shall doom to destruction and derision of those who are in ignorance. For behold, those who judge deliberarate [...]."

On that day all the people and the crowd were disturbed, and they showed that they had NOT been persuaded.

And he arose and went forth speaking in this manner. And he entered (again) on that same day and spoke a few hours.

And I was with the PRIESTS and revealed nothing of the relationship, since all of them were saying with one voice,

'Come, let us stone the Just One.' And they arose, saying, 'Yes, let us kill this man, that he may be taken from our midst. For he will be of no use to us.'

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. Isa 6:8

And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Isa 6:9

Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Isa 6:10

Of course the Levitical Warrior Musicians were prophesied to MOCK Him to death. No exception, Max: Sad sad that bitter wail, not even close but lost. Jesus told me so and YOU and the pig-tail-pulling crowd cannot refute it: that, too is prophesied. That is why the EVE character will make sure that it is a TESTESTERONE FREE ZONE.

My testerone comes from my body, I am a natural male. Speak to me about testerone when you get it somewhere other than in a bottle.

When you tamper with the Word of God and call Jesus Christ a LIAR for ALWAYS connecting remission of sins to the BAPTISM then you ARE predestinated because that is the ROAD or WAY which leads to the burning pits.

You reject the words of GOD INCARNATE that one must be old enough to HEAR the Gospel, BELIEVE it based on HEARING, making that CONFESSION which is always connected to Baptism, and OBEYING that FORM OF DOCTRINE; and rejecting Paul's agreement that BEING THEN FREE FROM SIN are defined by the word APISTOS used by Jesus to define those who DO no believe and are not baptized. They ARE predestinated and DO NOT have the SEAL which God stamps as A holy spirit or A good conscience promised ONLY to those who REQUEST it by the act of baptism.

Paul told the Corinthians ( 2 Cor4:2) that they would not be able to read black text on white paper until they turned or were converted which Jesus and Peter equated to baptism. One does not need any more than an understanding that Jesus is the promised Christ, the Son of God or God in the flesh: on that condition and that alone one is eligible to be baptized. It is not possible for a three year old to make that confession and it is not possible for the APISTOS or those who tell Jesus that He is a LIAR by "rejecting the PREcounsel of God" which means "refusing to be baptized."

Poor Walt Sez: Without knowing and understanding the doctrine of the Reformation view, as you showed you don't know, your argument speaks not of 'understanding' but of propaganda you have assimilated into your biasness against other's beliefs. For example, you don't understand(Reformation view) that God needs to indwell(Holy Spirit) the elect in order for their depraved nature to understand that there is nothing that the creature can do to save one's self because of their fallen nature - Romans 3:10ff. It is upon this belief that the indwellt individual now understands that God's salvation is unconditional and that Jesus alone saves by His perfect obedience. At this point, the individual uses his or her free moral agency in humbly accepting the truth that there is nothing the individual can do to get saved, that it is totally in the hands of God. This is the view Calvin had and the view of those saved under the sacrifice of Christ. Christians cannot depend on the "sour" nature of self(void of the indwelling) to suggest that they accept Christ, they need 100% help from God before they make their decision.

Walt CANNOT quote anything but PROOF TEXTS and cannot possibly have ever read anything John Calvin ever wrote: Walt just FABRICATES and puts into the mouths of dead men what HE conjurs out of His own Mind which ALWAYS repudiates Holy Scripture.

The Sola Fide view of the Reformation was expressed by Luther who said that Sola Fide demanded Sola Scriptura because THAT is the only place Jesus promised to teach OBJECTIVE FACTS required before one can HAVE faith. Heretics teach that "faith" is a magical word and is INFUSED by probably an antenna that God gives the little embryo.

Luther said, therefore, Sola Fide was based on Sola Scriptura which meang that SALVATION was conditioned on SOLA BAPTISMA. For those "whose eyes God has closed" because they repudiated the WORD and the Gospel as THE POWER to salvation, it is NOT possible to NOT call Jesus Christ a Liar. FaithSlight cannot grasp that the POINT is whether God is a RESPECTER OF PERSONS. THEY preach that God IS a respector of persons when He PREDESTINATES certain people to BURN IN HELL just to prove that He is more powerful than an embryo: this is SUPPOSED to prove to SOMEONE that "I AM THE GREATEST." Walt wants to be a hitchhiker or parasite without even asking to enlist?

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Acts 10:35 But in EVERY nation

he that feareth him,
and worketh righteousness,
is accepted with him.

No, Walt and Mrs Modulator say that PETER is, along with Jesus, just a LIAR and we know where liars have their end

Didn't Paul say that there were RIGHTEOUS people from all nations? No Jew is righteous BECAUSE they were predestinated but those who DO right things IS righteous. So, Walt's proof text proves that Walt and Mrs. Modulator are liars.

Rom 3:1 WHAT advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Rom 3:2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 For what if SOME did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Note that the ORACLES OF GOD was the FAITH OF GOD.

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,

When are they LIARS? When they say that they are RIGHTEOUS because God PREDESTINATED them by giving them the Law. Now, notice how they were JUSTIFIED and how they could return when judged:


That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings,
and mightest overcome WHEN thou art judged.

I am afraid that FALSE TEACHERS simply CANNOT read the Word of God. God is RIGHTEOUS: none of those Paul is addressing can CLAIM to be Righteous. A person is JUSTIFIED when they speak JUST THINGS and NOT because they are PREDESTINATED. If the "predestinated" sin THEY will be judged: if Walt lies then Walt is on the PREDESTINATED list of those who burn in hell.

Jesus said MY WORDS are Spirit and Life: John Calvin taught that the Spirit OF Christ uses NO OTHER SOURCE than the Scriptures because SPIRIT is the MIND OF CHRIST and reveals NOTHING which Jesus Christ the WORD has not taught. Paul speaks of NATIONS because we KNOW that MANY were righteous including Abel (after the fall), Seth etal. Paul DISABUSES the Jews of their view of PREDESTINATION by saying that THEY were not righteous because they did not PRACTICE righteousness.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that SEEKETH after God.

Was JESUS not righteous? Was Paul not righteous? Was Mary not righteous when Scripture says that they WERE?

Rom 3:12 They are all GONE OUT of the way, they are together BECOME unprofitable; there is none that DOETH good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their THROAT is an open sepulchre; with their TONGUES they have USED deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Simple Walt THINKS that this all happened BEFORE they got out of the crib: Didn't David say that they SPEAK LIES from the WOMB?

Paul is quoting Psalms: Psalms are poems and poems TEND to be POETIC.

PAUL IS SPEAKING ABOUT A TYPE OF PEOPLE WHICH BEGINS IN ROMANS CHAPTER ONE.

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE? THEY ARE FOOLS. ARE ALL OF US FOOLS? I HOPE NOT. IF WE ARE NOT FOOLS LIKE THE JEWS WHOM JESUS REFUSED TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO, SO THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED THEN WE ARE NOT THE SUBJECT OF THIS CHAPTER.

Psa 4:1 THE fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
They are corrupt, THEY have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Who are the THEY who do nothing good? They are the FOOLS who do not practice righteousness: NONE of them are righteous based on their STATUS.

The FOOL has said PUBLICALLY that Jesus, Peter, Philip, Paul and ALL known history were LIARS for connecting REMISSION OF SINS to BAPTISM and ONLY to BAPTISM. And that is the DOGMA of FaithSlight.Con.

Psa 14:2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
Psa 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together BECOME filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
14:4 Have all the WORKERS of iniquity no knowledge?

who eat up my people as they eat bread,
and call not upon the Lord.

Was the Psalmist a LIAR or was he a POET?

PSALM 63:1 O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

WHO are THEY? They are the FOOLS who LIVE OFF the RIGHTEOUS POOR. Oh! So there ARE righteous people after all. What does the Psalmist and Paul mean then, Simple Simons? He means that NO ONE is righteous based on being PREDESTINATED by having the Law. That means that WALT is NOT predestinated and his BAD MOUTHING the fact that the POWER has been PUT into the Gospel and HE believes NOTHING he has not read or hallucinated because he assuredly twists Scripture and John Calvin and EVERYONE who dares state BIBLICAL TRUTHS. Mrs PMS shares the GUILT of all of that false teaching.

Psa 14:5 There were they in great fear:
for God is in the generation of the righteous.
Psa 14:6 Ye have shamed the counsel of the poor,
because the Lord is his refuge.
Psa 14:7 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion when the Lord bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.

Simple Simons cannot grasp the difference between RIGHTEOUSNESS and the remission of sins: No one has their sins remitted without requesting it at baptism: no one who minimizes baptism CAN be saved: they LACK the sin and therefore they speak wickedness.

I will show you that FaithSlight.Con is dedicated to even permitting John Calvin to be lied about to support their anti-church of Christ theme.

The liberals from this site have been beating their breasts and grinding their teeth at the FaithSite moderators. That's really unfortunate. You've been banned. Move on. Don't beat yourselves up over it. Your presence simply isn't desired there. What's the big deal?

Donnie,

Nobody answered my question. What's the big deal? You aren't wanted on FaithSite -- a site that you clearly despise. Who cares?!? The site is better off without you. And you are better off here where you can ban and censor and express your hatred of Christians to your hearts content.

You're right Donnie, the topics at faithsite have been boring. Not like the enriching, useful and interesting topics here. Such as:

T.U.L.P. or Two Lipped Heresy?

Faithsite / Jabez HIJACKED by ANTI Church of Christ PLANTS?

“JUST WHAT ARE THE CHANGE AGENTS DOING THAT IS SO WRONG?”

WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEK—The Timeline (Part XI) Part 11- are you serious???

You HAVE been taken CAPTIVE: Please some PhDuh Refute?

Community Church or Commune? How to find a CULT.

An Online Conversation with the “Worship Leader’s” Wife’s Dad

Psalm 58: Proves Musical Agents DO lie from the WOMB?

Music in Worship-Jeff Walling

Otter Creek Church: a Community Church?

Rick Warren’s Purpose-Driven Strategy Splits Congregants



Very helpful to our struggle against the dark forces of this world. I'm sure God is proud.

I did like your lie... I mean statement:
"Besides, anyone can use different handles and post as much as he wants—but, frankly, the desire is not there for me, personally. Someday, maybe…!??"

How many "handles" did you actually have at faithsite? I can think of 2 off the top of my head.

Nadab will have to admit that, compared to the whole threads created at FaithSite just to say "Hi" to someone or to invite people into the chat room or to wish someone "Happy Birthday," the topics here at Concerned Members are far more on the cutting edge and address the problems of the Change Movement facing the Church today.

The specific thread that we are on now was originally created to expose the hypocrisy and fallacious theologies that had been presented at FS. Since it has come under new "management," however, it is clear that FS now operates far more as a social club with a "closed membership" than as a source for any significant theological presentations.

"...the topics here at Concerned Members are far more on the cutting edge and address the problems of the Change Movement facing the Church today."

HA HA HA Oh, stop it Bill. You're killing me. That is hilarious. Cutting edge? The "edge" of this site couldn't cut melted butter.




"The specific thread that we are on now was originally created to expose the hypocrisy and fallacious theologies that had been presented at FS."

Real cutting edge topic there, Bill. What's funnier, is that the only hypocrisy and fallacious theologies presented were from you and your cronies.




"Since it has come under new "management," however, it is clear that FS now operates far more as a social club with a "closed membership" than as a source for any significant theological presentations."

Faithsite doesn't present itself as a theology-discussions-only site. Ever heard of fellowship? Since you liberals have left, the theological discussions that do take place are WAY more civil and accurate, and they make a lot more sense.

The fact is that there still aren't much of any "theological" discussions going on at FS, but Nadab just won't admit it. Even ultra-liberal Walt admitted that FS was principally designed for theological discussions. It's kinda hard to milk theology out of entire threads devoted to nothing more than the so-called "fellowship" of wishing buddies "Happy Birthday," invitations to meet in the chat room, and saying "Good Morning."

But FS only mirrors the Church today, which has become a medium geared toward entertainment and socializing and far less toward serious worship and Bible-based theology.

BTW, looks like "Bod" has returned to FS. Now are the FS liberals there gonna wimp out and knuckle under again like they did the last time he showed them all up? Are the FS liberals gonna resort to their old "Christian defense" of name-calling, insults, and personal attacks? Or are the FS liberals gonna get some FIGHT in their spines and defeat Bod with the WORD OF GOD as written, full and complete? After all it's THEIR site!

Oh, I suggest that Nadab get another "handle." The name he bears now recalls a deliberately disobedient soul in the Old Testament whom God slew outright. Or does Nadab's handle reflect his own deliberate disobedience?

The theological discussion that goes on at faithsite is done, (now that you and your gang are gone) by people who tell the truth and have at least half an idea WHAT they are taling about. It's good to see you still visit there frequently, even though you've been banned from posting. Keep reading Bill, maybe you'll learn something.


"But FS only mirrors the Church today, which has become a medium geared toward entertainment and socializing and far less toward serious worship and Bible-based theology."

Then why are you a member of that horrible church? Is it because you too are a liberal, and LOVE entertainment and socailizing?


"Oh, I suggest that Nadab get another "handle." The name he bears now recalls a deliberately disobedient soul in the Old Testament whom God slew outright. Or does Nadab's handle reflect his own deliberate disobedience?"

I thought you'd like my name. Thanks for the affirmation

So we can take Nadab's name "affirmation" as testimony that the one wearing that name follows in the steps of the Old Testament counterpart: a deliberately disobedient liberal proudly proclaiming that his version of "truth" is that there is no absolute truth; that there are no "wrong answers"; in short, that "truth" is only what each person perceives it to be. When you really think about it, that's the same attitude that the Nadab of the OT manifested. He offered his version of "truth": fire which God had not commanded. His version of "truth" was indeed the wrong answer. And because he offered his version of "truth," Nadab was obliterated. In parallel, that's the kind of "truth" that the liberals at FS espouse today: their own perverted version of "truth." How utterly shallow to deny that God's truth as revealed in His written Word IS absolute truth.

Yes, Nadab clearly belongs with the rest of the CROW-eating libs at FS, who crave desserts of HUMBLE PIE and ice CROWm.

"Nadab will have to admit that, compared to the whole threads created at FaithSite just to say "Hi" to someone or to invite people into the chat room or to wish someone "Happy Birthday," the topics here at Concerned Members are far more on the cutting edge and address the problems of the Change Movement facing the Church today."

You're right, Mr. Bill. You should avoid FS. You're better off here talking about how horrible Christians are.

Along with the CROW that Max, Tom, Nadab, and now Brian and all the other libs at FS have been compelled to eat over the Bod issue, some HUMBLE PIE a la mode would make an excellent dessert for them all. And since that involves ice cream, a more appropriate topping would be "ice CROWm."

You know, it seems that the FS libs are gradually leaving that site and coming over here to visit us conservatives at CM more and more. At least something here is attracting them one by one: Max, then Tom, then Nadab, and now Brian. Eventually, FS will become even more of a ghost town than it already is. After all, CM IS a conservative site with regular posters whom the FS libs have branded as "legalists" many times over in the past. Now the FS libs have switched tactics and are saying that the regular CM posters, those CM "legalists," are instead liberals and that the FS liberals are conservatives. Black is white and white is black. Good is evil and evil is good.

I don't think the FS libs know which end is up at all. They should just stick to gorging themselves on CROW with HUMBLE PIE and ice CROWm.

Doctor, your mental issues are showing again.

I did not follow you to this site. As Donnie can attest, I have been posting on this site for many years, probably an earlier arrival than you. Among my posts (used by Donnie from Faithsite) was a warning to Madison members that instrumental music was around the corner from the use of speical concerts in the building.

But, should we expect anything better from you?? No, you continue to be an embarrassment to Churches of Christ.

Let's just say it's not by coincidence that Tom's posts have increased in frequency here at CM since the conservatives were banned from FS. Admit it, my dear liberal friend. If Tom wants to be truthful, he can't really deny that.

Perhaps if we keep the FS libs busy squawking over here, FS will dwindle to less and less...and less...and less. Right now, FS has been transformed into little more than a "How ya doin'" message center for birthday greetings and invitations to meet in the chat room.

The most suitable diet for Tom and all the other FS liberals continues to be roasted CROW, HUMBLE PIE, and ice CROWm.

While the children are picking thingies out of one another's noses, I thought I would slip in a responds to V-jo about WOLVES. Someday I will tell what means the WOLVES in Acts 20 and how to identify them. Lucky we don't have an editoress so we can say words like THINGY.

Acts 20 prophesied about the ELDERS of YOUR church which has suddenly turned MUSICAL and allowed the WOLVES to import others to EAT UP YOUR LIVING: definition of a Pharisee. Jesus identified the "speakers, singers and musicians" and HYPOCRITES by quoting from Isaiah and Ezekiel. BY DEFINITION a HYPOCRITE is a theatrical performer. It matters no how much ZOE imports experts to EXORCISE the "Platonic Fallacy" your shepherd is REALLY a wolf. I may tell you more about the UNIVERSAL warning about WOLVES.

Ezek 22:1 MOREOVER the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

Ezek 22:2 Now, thou son of man, wilt thou judge, wilt thou judge the bloody city? yea, thou shalt shew her all her abominations. [Loathing: in Greek connected to dung and menstrual juices held to bring life]

Not now, but I need to tell you that the word PSALLO which the PhDuhs now use as authority to go "wolfing" has three major uses in the literature:

First, it is a WARFARE word and NOT a musical word: it relates to Apollyon and his prostitute MUSES John calls Sorcerers in Revelation 18

Second, the chalk-line really POINTS to the blood shed when the bow was PSALLOED to attack your literal heart.

Third, and only as a metaphor, it was used meaning to SHOOT OUT HYMNS.

Not, a FOUNDATION to build your church upon. When they pour GRACE all over your head, remember that Chara was a brown-eyed, Greek prostitute goddess as were all of the MUSES or musicians. The word CHARIS includes "favors granted to a male."

Ezek 22:3 Then say thou, Thus saith the Lord God, The city sheddeth blood in the midst of it, that her time may come, and maketh idols against herself to defile herself.

IDOLS Clement in Stromata notes of Mount Sinai as Egyptian worship of the TRIAD under Apis, the golden calf:
http://www.piney.com/Clement-Stromata-Five.html

The Beetle, cap. iv. p. 449, note 6.
Cicero notes the scarabus on the tongue, as identifying Apis, 244 the calf-god of the Egyptians. Now, this passage of our author seems to me to clear up the Scriptural word gillulimin Deuteronomy 29:17, where the English margin reads, literally enough, dungy-gods. The word means, things rolled about (Leviticus 26:30; Habakkuk 2:18, 19; 1 Kings 15:12); on which compare Leighton (St. Peter, PP. 239, 746, and note). Scripture seems to prove that this story of Clement's about the beetle of the Egyptians, was known to the ancient Hebrews, and was the point in their references to the gillulim (see Herod., book iii. cap. 28., or Rawlinson's Trans., vol. ii. 353). The note in Migne ad loc. is also well-worthy to be consulted.

You will remember that Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels where the word means LIKE DUNG.

When Israel rose up to play in musicial idolatry, they thought that they looked COOL. However, God said that they were just a laughingstock. And so are modern musical idolatrers PROCURED by WOLVES to help extort from the poor.

Ezek 22:4 Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near, and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries.

cherphach (h2781) kher-paw'; from 2778; contumely, disgrace, the pudenda: - rebuke, reproach (-fully), shame.

Charaph (h2778) khaw-raf'; a prim. root; to pull off, i. e. (by impl.) to expose (as by stripping); spec. to betroth (as if a surrender); fig. to carp at, i. e. defame; denom. (from 2779) to spend the winter: - betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.

Paul told the synagogue in Romans 15 not to SELF-pleasure and connected that to the REPROACHES Prophesied for Jesus Christ.

Ezek 22:5 Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed.

When God pours out His WRATH he sends jesters, buffoons and others of the HYPOCRITIC arts to make FOOLS of you. Because they are "angels of light" you BELIEVE that they are laughing WITH you but they are laughing AT you. One can suspect that most of the SEEKERS just come for the performance and that defines hypocrites in Ezekiel 33.

Mehuwmah (h4103) meh-hoo-ma'; from 1949; confusion or uproar: - destruction, discomfiture, trouble, tumult, vexation, vexed.

Publish in the palaces at Ashdod, and in the palaces in the land of Egypt, and say, Assemble yourselves upon the mountains of Samaria, and behold the great tumults in the midst thereof, and the oppressed in the midst thereof. Am.3:9

Huwm (h1949) hoom; a prim. root [comp. 2000]; to make an uproar, or agitate greatly: - destroy, move, make a noise, put, ring again.

Howleluwth (g1948) ho-lay-looth'; from act. part. of 1984; folly: - madness.

The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness. Ec.10:13

The word HALAL or PRAISE g1984 means to MAKE SELF VILE or make a fool of yourself. It is the source for the word HEYLEL or LUCIFER who is the "singing and harp-playing prostitute" and equivalent to Zoe.

Ezek 22:6 Behold, the princes of Israel, every one were in thee to their power to shed blood.

Princes are
Nasiy(h5387) naw-see'; or nasi· naw-see'; from 5375; prop. an exalted one, i. e. a king or sheik; also a rising mist: - captain, chief, cloud, governor, prince, ruler, vapour

Ezek 22:7 In thee
have they set light by father and mother:
in the midst of thee have they
dealt by oppression with the stranger:
in thee have they vexed the fatherless and the widow.

Qalal (h7043) kaw-lal'; a prim. root; to be (caus. make) light, lit. (swift, small, sharp, etc.) or fig. (easy, trifling, vile, etc.): - abate, make bright, bring into contempt, (ac-) curse, despise, (be) ease (- y, -ier), (be a, make, make somewhat, move, seem a, set) light (- en, - er, -ly, - ly afflict, -ly esteem, thing), * slight [-ly], be swift (- er), (be, be more, make, re-) vile, whet.

Oppression is THE LAW OF GIVING or TITHING:

Osheq (h6233) o'-shek; from 6231; injury, fraud, (subj.) distress, (concr.) unjust gain: - cruelly, extortion, oppression, thing [deceitfully gotten].

Ashaq (h6231) aw-shak'; a prim. root (comp. 6229); to press upon, i. e. oppress, defraud, violate, overflow: - get deceitfully, deceive, defraud, drink up, (use) oppress ([-ion], -or), to violence (wrong).

You will remember that Paul did not want any collections came AFTER he came because his presence would be an EXTORTING INFLUENCE: Paul equates extortioners to adulterers.

Ezek 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned (h2490) my sabbaths.

Ezek 22:9 In thee are men that carry tales to shed blood: and in thee they eat upon the mountains: in the midst of thee they commit lewdness.

Ezekiel 13 speaks of those who STOLE WORDS one from another in "workshops" and then SOLD them as the truth. He is especially hard on the WOMEN PROPHESIERS which always means "music" and other performance.
http://www.piney.com/MuEzek13.html

Rakiyl (h7400) raw-keel'; from 7402; a scandal-monger (as travelling about): - slander, carry tales, talebearer.

Rakkal (h7402) raw-kal'; a prim. root; to travel for trading: - (spice) merchant.

Lewdness is:

Zimmah (h2154) zim-maw'; or zammah zam-maw'; from 2161; a plan, espec. a bad one: - heinous crime, lewd (-ly, -ness), mischief, purpose, thought, wicked (device, mind, -ness) Zamiyr (h2158) zaw-meer'; or zamir zaw-meer'; and (fem.) zˇmirah zem-ee-raw'; from 2167; a song to be accompanied with instrumental music: - psalm (-ist), singing, song

Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage. Ps.119:54

Ezek 22:10 In thee have they discovered their fathers nakedness: in thee have they humbled her that was set apart for pollution.

Discovered: Galah (h1540) gaw-law'; a prim. root; to denude (espec. in a disgraceful sense); by impl. to exile (captives being usually stripped); fig. to reveal: - / advertise, appear, bewray, bring, (carry, lead, go) captive (into captivity), depart, disclose, discover, exile, be gone, open, * plainly, publish, remove, reveal, * shamelessly, shew, * surely, tell, uncover.

Nakedness: Ervah (h6172) er-vaw'; from 6168; nudity, lit. (espec. the pudenda) or fig. (disgrace, blemish): - nakedness, shame, unclean (- ness).

Ezek 22:11 And one hath committed abomination with his neighbours wife; and another hath lewdly defiled his daughter in law; and another in thee hath humbled his sister, his fathers daughter.

Ezek 22:12 In thee have they taken gifts to shed blood; thou hast taken usury and increase, and thou hast greedily gained of thy neighbours by extortion, and hast forgotten me, saith the Lord God.

The baptism with the spirit OF FIRE and spirit OF JUDGMENT is not good: the outpouring by the return of CHRIST THE SPIRIT was a one time event: it was to the generation of VIPERS that this would be a SIGN of judgment and a warning for any literate reader. Having NON CLERGY praising God in NONE Judean was a sign of JUDGMENT: don't pray for it.

Ezek 22:19 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.

Ezek 22:20 As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you.

Ezek 22:21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst therof.

Ezek 22:22 As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the Lord have poured out my fury upon you.

Ezek 22:23 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

Ezek 22:24 Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.

Ezek 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof,

like a roaring lion ravening the prey;
they have devoured souls;
they have taken the treasure and precious things;
they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.

Ezek 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

PROFANED IS: H2490 chlal khaw-lal'to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), denominatively (from H2485 ) to play (the flute):.. take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute

Ezek 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain.

Epictetus, Works XLIII.
As a wolf resembles a dog, so much does a flatterer, an adulterer, a parasite, resemble a friend. Take heed, therefore, that instead of guardian dogs, you do not inadvertently admit ravening wolves.

H2963 taraph taw-raf' A primitive root; to pluck off or pull to pieces; causatively to supply with food (as in morsels): catch, X without doubt, feed, ravin, rend in pieces, X surely, tear (in pieces).

H6233 Osheq o'-shek From H6231 ; injury, fraud, (subjectively) distress, (concretely) unjust gain: cruelly, extortion, oppression, thing [deceitfully gotten].

Ezek 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken.

Untempered:

Taphel (h8602) taw-fale'; from an unused root mean. to smear; plaster (as gummy) or slime; (fig.) frivolity: - foolish things, unsavoury, untempered.

Taphaph (h8608) taw-faf'; a prim. root; to drum, i. e. play (as) on the tambourine: - taber, play with timbrels.

Divining is the use of "magical songs" which were claimed to have power. John in revelation 18 calls the speakers, singers and musicians SORCERERS

Qacam (h7080) kaw-sam'; a prim. root; prop. to distribute, i. e. determine by lot or magical scroll; by impl. to divine: - divine (-r, - ation), prudent, soothsayer, use [divination].

Ezek 22:29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfully.

Osheq (h6233) o'-shek; from 6231; injury, fraud, (subj.) distress, (concr.) unjust gain: - cruelly, extortion, oppression, thing [deceitfully gotten].

Ashaq (h6231) aw-shak'; a prim. root (comp. 6229); to press upon, i. e. oppress, defraud, violate, overflow: - get deceitfully, deceive, defraud, drink up, (use) oppress ([-ion], -or), to violence (wrong).

Ezek 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.

Baqash (h1245) baw-kash'; a prim. root; to search out (by any method, spec. in worship or prayer); by impl. to strive after: - ask, beg, beseech, desire, enquire, get, make inquisition, procure, (make) request, require, seek (for).

Make up means to RESTORE the walls the "musical" heretics boasted about BREAKING DOWN.

Qadar (h1443) gaw-dar'; a prim. root; to wall in or around: - close up, fence up, hedge, inclose, make up [a wall], mason, repairer.

The musical worship condemned by Amos TOOK AWAY the knowledge of God's Word. As a result the people hungered and thirsted for the WORD but never found it. As a result, the SONGS IN THE TEMPLE became wailings. And God said: I WILL NOT PASS THIS WAY AGAIN.

In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: Am.9:11

Ezek 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord God.

Wrath in Greek which Paul outlawed by restricting women was ORGE which was the worship of EROS with singing and music which destroys the ability to hear the Word of God.

If you have recently ADDED any "new style music" or LADED the widows and honest working people with a MUSICAL MINISTER then Acts 20 has been fulfilled and there is one or more WOLVES among the shepherds parceling out the LAMBS to their STAFF INFECTION. This is exactly what happened when Israel's elders needed a DOMINANT PASTOR who would take up the TITHE and confiscate the youth to be his Chariot musicians and perform other tasks FOR THE KING.

One who denies that FULL DEITY dwelled in Jesus Christ is called an ANTI-Christ. One cannot be a neo-trinitarian (church of Christ Tritheists) without dening that Christ came FULLY in the flesh.

Those with ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT should be ARRESTED:

Jesus commanded that we not only be baptized in order to be saved (Mark 16:16) but that we also be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost (Matt. 28:19), otherwise known as the Trinity. Those commands are quite clear.

But, no one in the early church ever baptized in the nameS of the "trinity" which was invented as "three persons" in 1942.

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

How much POWER do you deny that HE has?

Power is:

Ecousia (g1849) ex-oo-see'-ah; from 1832 (in the sense of ability); privilege, i.e. (subj.) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (obj.) mastery (concr. magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence: - authority, jurisdiction, liberty, power, right, strength.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Matthew 28:19

Name is:

Onoma (g3686) on'-om-ah; from a presumed der. of the base of 1097 (comp. 3685); a "name" (lit. or fig.) [authority, character]: - called, (/ sur) name (-d).

The Greek ONOMA or name stands "for all that a name implies, of authority, character, rank, majesty, power, excellence... of everything that the name covers" (Vine, Name, p. 782)

There is only ONE name and if ALL authority is vested in the name SINGULAR of Jesus Christ then we baptize in the NAME of Jesus Christ.

Why? Because, neither Father, Son or Holy Spirit is a name of God. According to Zechariah His Name would be Jesus or Joshua which means Jehovah-Saves.

And Paul said

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9

That does not leave any GODHEAD left over for "father" and "spirit." Jesus CHRIST came FULLY in the flesh: if there was TWO OTHERS on the "throne" then Jesus DID NOT come fully in the flesh and that makes you an ANTI-CHRIST. Peter agrees with me and NOT the Polytheists:

Therefore, Paul and the rest of the New Testament baptizes in the name of Jesus Christ. This was continued for many years. Quite LOGICALLY when they BEGAN to baptize in THREE NAMES they baptized THREE TIMES.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38

Jesus is a name!

This was not a "baptismal formula" but a statement of the authority of Jesus to accept God's disciples.

"The nearest approach to a formal announcement of the doctrine of the Trinity which is recorded from Our Lord's lips, or, perhaps we may say, which is to be found in the whole compass of the NT, has been preserved for us, not by John, but by one of the synoptists. It too, however, is only incidentally introduced, and has for its main object something very different from formulating the doctrine of the Trinity.

It is embodied in the great commission which the resurrected Lord gave His disciples to be their 'marching orders even unto the end of the world.' (Int Std Bible Ency., p. 3017)

"It does not say, 'In the names [plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost";


nor yet 'In the name of the Father,
and in the name of the Son,
and in the name of the Holy Ghost,'
as if we had to deal with three separate Beings. (Int Std Bible Ency., p. 3017)

Preachers are presumptious when they put one hand INTO the air like an antenna and one hand on the candidate AS IF they were the CONDUIT for conducting the AUTHORITY.

The Jews: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for (in order to) the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Acts 2:38 Discussion of Eis,... Part Two,... Doctor Jack Lewis on Eis or For.

The Samaritans: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Acts 8:16

The Gentiles: And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. Acts 10:48 (not lords)

Those baptized after Pentecost: When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Acts 19:5

Apostle Paul: And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Acts 22:16 [This is the clear proof that the "pastor" has no authority to pronounce but Paul was to call on the name consistent with Proselyte baptism]

And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. Ac.22:8

I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Ac.26:9

Romans 6: Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4

Corinthians: Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:13

And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:11

Galatians: For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Galatians 3:27

James: Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? James 2:7

If you call HIM "THEM" then you are blaspheming Jesus Christ which is THE name of the Holy Spirit as "another Comforter." Jesus said, "I and the Father are ONE." Sorry, people, but you are in the WRONG religion!

Looks like Dr. Bill Crump is hungry again for a quadruple banned sandwich.

Its not hard to see over at "faith slight" that Dr. Bill Crump = "All in Good Time."

Yes, all in good time will "All in Good Time" be banned.

Since the FS libs can't get enough CROW to stuff down their goozles over there, they one by one come over here begging the CM chefs to prepare yet more CROW, HUMBLE PIE, and ice CROWm. I'm sure the chefs are glad to accommodate them.

And since Bod, the overwhelming nemesis of the FS libs has returned there, looks like history (and a huge feud) WILL repeat themselves after all. Too bad the libs didn't invoke the "Barney Fife Principle (BFP)" right off. What's the BFP you ask? "Nip it in the bud!" Naw, the ragtag troupe of FS libs are railing at Bod as wildly as before. Funny, "evil" Bod is as sweet and kind and pleasant as all get-out over at FS, while the "Christian libs" there scream, holler, revile, rant, hoot, insult, and gnash their teeth. So Bod is behaving like a Christian, and the FS libs are behaving like demons! What role reversals! What exciting theater!

I haven't engaged "Bod." I am taking a helper of Satan, aka Dr. Bill Crump to task!

Max has responded to Bod only once during the latter's second appearance at FS. Max definitely engaged Bod in the first battle and got bested. Having been whipped by a superior debater such as Bod, Max now knows better than to go up against someone like Bod until Max is better prepared. Insults, name-calling, and personal attacks just won't do the job, Max.

Does being a superior debater automatically make Bod some kind of agent for Satan? And if people recognize Bod's superior debating skills, does that make them "helpers of Satan?" Perhaps only to those who are intimidated by such skills. To admit that Bod is a superior debater is to face reality. Since Max evidently considers himself spiritually superior to those who regularly post at CM, then let him redeem himself by engaging Bod in a full, mature, one-on-one debate at FS.

Once upon a time, an Internet message board professed to promote “Christian” values and Gospel truth. Yet this board preferred a closed society with members of a “progressive” mentality, all of whom believed that the Bible was not the source of absolute truth; that “truth” was not definitive, because it depended on how each individual person perceived it to be in his own mind; and that there were no wrong answers. Moreover, the members professed to have love and tolerance for all people’s beliefs and creeds. Yet if conservative posters appeared with messages that strongly supported the New Testament and encouraged all to follow it faithfully, these progressive members shouted them down, mocked them, insulted them, and hurled all manner of personal attacks against their names, jobs, and characters.

And it came to pass that once this message board had rid itself of all the strong, conservative posters, the progressive members in residence were at a loss to come up with worthwhile topics of discussion. Since they cared nothing for deep, biblical topics, they created entire threads devoted to inane and trivial subjects such as saying “Hello” to friends, wishing them “Happy Birthday,” or inviting select members to meet in the chat room for “small talk.”

By and by, a few of the progressives began to note that their message board had lapsed into a dire state of constipation, and they began to wonder why. Of course, the reason why the board was sluggish was quite obvious, except to the progressives, who wore perpetual blinders when it came to their own shortcomings.

It then fell to the conservatives to bail out the progressives by providing a series of topics on a level that the progressives could handle. Unfortunately, since deep, theological discussions would be too advanced and confusing for the progressives, the conservatives felt that the progressives could surely generate some lively discussions from the following suggested, but by no means exhaustive, list of inane and trivial topics:

Favorite flavors of ice cream (better, ice CROWm)

Favorite methods to freshen the breath of dogs

The most comfortable types of toilet seats

The softest brands of toilet paper

Which brands of pizza have the stringiest cheese

How to get 39 inches out of three feet

How often rap, heavy metal, and punk rock artists are incarcerated

How often your cat regurgitates hair balls

How to choose a pet rock

The best way to hug a tree

The worst case of halitosis you’ve ever encountered

Telling your spouse the truth about his/her “morning breath”: do or don’t

The proper way to break a stick

Sleeping preferences: mouth open or closed

Advantages of blowing your nose on a tissue or a handkerchief

Advantages of applying deodorant using the stick, cream, or roll-on types

Whether traffic lights stay red longer than green

Once upon a time, a message board liked to whine, cry, and complain about how another message board edite, deleted, and restricted posts. Then, surprisingly, that message board did the same thing.

Weird.

I'm impressed. If you're going to be a hypocrite, at least you can admit it. I'm proud of you.

It's also good to see the high standard of postings continue here at concerned members. I'm glad you won't allow posts titled "Weird", but have the good sense to alow ones titled "The Constipated Message Board". The standards just keep getting higher.

Keep up the good work,
Roger

… of postings, messages with responsible content and at least a certain level of maturity and are conducive to scripture-based learning … will continue to be posted. [Now you know that the moderators read every post that is submitted.]

BTW, I’m assuming that this is your real name this time—thus, you have emerged from hypocrisy. And for that this forum is thankful.

"...messages with responsible content and at least a certain level of maturity and are conducive to scripture-based learning … will continue to be posted."

"The Constipated Message Board"... maturity? conducive to scripture-based learning?
We are obviously operating from two different paradigms here.





"Now you know that the moderators read every post that is submitted."

I never said you didn't READ them. I said you edited, ignored, and deleted them, just like you cried that the "constipated message board" does.
You know, hypocrisy. Google it.

Dear Dr. Pill Pump, I heard this incredible factoid on TV today. I wonder if you could get a BeDate started on whether I should believe this and whether I should make it part of my creed: here is the raw assertion:

"Hawaii is an island entirely surrounded by water."

This is quite disturbing: hoping you will get me medication for this totally disturbing claim.

One writer who was ban from this board has crossed wires with another writer on the fs board. This other writer claims to be a preacher's wife while HoldenOn claims to be a preacher.

HoldenOn writes: How dare you assume that I am not hurt? Yes, I'm angry, but I'm more hurt than angry.

And it did not start with "Important end times information." It started before that. It started with your exchange with M----.

Then, it continued with your confession. I didn't have a problem with what you said about yourself, but the fact that you included everybody else was beyond your authority. I don't feel that I did anything wrong to or about B-----. If you felt that you did, that's between you, him and God.

Then you adopted this very arrogant, condescending attitude and to quote you, "I won't tolerate the same behavior you have displayed here."

I just don't know what I did to merit the kind of treatment I have received from you.

Alledged preacher's wife writes: R--- (HoldenOn)isn't "hurt", he's angry. If he wants to talk to me, he has my email. But I won't tolerate the same behavior he has displayed here. As a preacher, he knows his behavior has been out-of-line.

HoldenOn writes:. Pardon me, but your arrogance is showing. You claim to have made a public confession of your sins. It was a nice show, but you haven't confessed everything. You did a pretty good number on me and it did not seem to bother you. You like to say what you want and not have to deal with the consequences. By that I mean stick the knife in and twist it, then say, I'm not going to talk about this anymore. I thought more of you than than that.

Alledged preacher's wife writes: Great. Now I see that some of R--k's and S----- posts are being deleted. By whom, is anyone's guess. I should know by now to copy and paste them into my replies so that I'm not left looking like the troublemaker.

Maybe it's time to shut this board down.

This exchaange can be found on the thread: RE:WHAT DOES THIS MEAN; DATE 10/07/06


As the plot thickens at fs and veeejo-o-o-o calls for the board to shut down it seems that the preacher, and HoldenOn claims to be one, is ready to fight. Even if his opponent is a preacher's wife. As for the alledged preacher's wife, well you can read about her in some of the post's made earlier in this thread.

If I was putting money on this fight I would put it on the alledged preacher's wife. She seems to be tuff as snuff. I certainly wouldn't want to cross her.

In Christ,
Jimmy

Jimmy is copying and pasting without permission from another forum in violation of the footnotes on the posts:

"Users may not modify, publish, transmit, participate in the transfer or sale of, reproduce, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, display or in any way exploit any of the content in whole or in part, without obtaining prior written authorization."

Perhaps his cronies will have enough integrity to insist that he remove these posts and that this unethical behavior stop.

__________________________

Anonymous:

What is the person’s real name whose footnotes are on the posts? I would think that the poster, whose message is especially doctrinal or religious in nature and has any redeeming value, would like his message known or heard by others.

Jimmy, that was despicable.

Hi Max it's good to hear from you.

Why is that post considered to be despicable by you? Is it because of the content in R*iK's or VeE-jo-O-o's post?

Is it okay to sit on the side lines and watch these two people go at each other on a public forum? Is their conduct consider to be okay by you? Why did the fs moderators allow such a thread to continue?

I wrote the post because this "preacher" and this alledged "preacher's wife" have often written false and mean things about other people. Both have had harsh things to say about people including whole churches.

Do you remember how both of these have written demeaning posts that dealt with the church leaders and elders and members who drive expensive cars?

Both were content at one time to take jabs at S. E., Piney, Donnie, Dr. Bill and myself. Now that most of those do not post at fs anymore they now have turned on each other.

Barking dogs will bark at each other when they have nothing else to bark at.

Thanks for your comments Max.

In Christ,
Jimmy

I stopped writing on this board 8 months ago. I would not be writing now, but Jimmy has taken it upon himself to copy, and paste some posts I and another person wrote to each other on another site. He has also edited them.

I believe this to be unethical on his part and told him so on the other site.

I also believe that the moderators of this site, even though I may not agree with them on many topics, will allow me at least a limited defense of what has been posted about me.

They will also be able to put to rest once for all the untruth that I had been banned from here.

That, in fact, is the first topic I would like to address. I was never banned. I have from time to time had posts that were edited by the moderators, as many posters have. I never used foul or obscene language.

Next, Jimmy writes that I "have often written false and mean things about other people." I will plead guilty to the occasional mean comment. But Jimmy, I challenge to find something false that I wrote. The burden of proof is on you.

In that same paragraph Jimmy writes, "Both have had harsh things to say about people including whole churches." Then only comment I have ever made about "whole churches" has been in as general sense. I never singled out a church, never named one, never identified the name location or even state of a single whole church. I made a comment that I knew churches that had bad leadership. I do know them. Do you mean to tell me that you do not know of "whole churches" that have bad leadership? That have gained bad reputations?

What about some of the threads on this board? They name churches by name. I have never done that.

Then you write, "Do you remember how both of these have written demeaning posts that dealt with the church leaders and elders and members who drive expensive cars?"

Again, I ask you to name one single leader of a church, one elder or deacon that I have written something demeaning about.

You can't.

Lastly, v-jo and I have no problems. You can ask her. We are fine.

Why did you want to spread our previous problems around? Do you take delight when Christians quarrel? We should never had let things get to the point that it did. It was my fault and I apologized. We are reconciled. That should make you rejoice.

Does it?

Again, I thank the moderators and hope they will post this. I hope this brings this whole unfortunate episode to a close. There has been nothing gained by posting these things, and as I have been reminded of so many times, this site is supposed to be about theological issues, not personalities.

Rick

The CM moderators here allowed Rick to present his "defense" regarding the allegedly "despicable" act committed by Jimmy. That's far more than the moderators at FS would have ever allowed anyone from Concerned Members to do, because the FS moderators and the regular posters over there just don't want any conservatives, especially those from CM, to post there at all. Thus they keep "banning" the conservatives and deleting all of their messages, regardless of the topics presented. For example, I had posted at FS a most serious essay by John Waddey about teachers and the Change Movement. It was summarily deleted along with all the other conservative messages.

FS clearly wants a "closed society" of liberals, whereas it is also clear that by allowing Rick and others of similar views to post here, CM is more open to posting views from both sides. That said, it should now be obvious which site suffers from bias and narrow-mindedness.

If a dog barks on a forum and no one is around to read it, does the coffee still taste bitter?

There's one about cats, too: If a wild cat hisses on a forum and no one is around to read it, does clabber still taste just as sour?

And one about skunks: If an angry skunk releases its scent gland on a forum and there is no recipient around to "benefit" from it, is there still a great stink in the air?

And then there's one about hangmen...Well, you get the point.

It seems that anyone who exposes and calls to task the obviously despicable behavior demonstrated by the left-wingers over at FS automatically becomes a "despicable" person himself. No one is to reprimand or criticize the hypocrisy rampant at FS, for the left-wingers there follow the bizarre notion that, as "servants of God," they are free to revile and ridicule those whom they please.

When Jesus openly exposed the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees and called them to task for it, the offenders became highly offended and most likely regarded Jesus as "despicable." In fact, they were so offended that they plotted to kill Him, among other reasons.

Jimmy openly exposed the hypocrisy of the left-wingers at FS and called them to task for it. As expected, the offenders became highly offended and screamed (through the voice of Max) that Jimmy did something "despicable." No, the offenders were justly nailed!

How ironic that the offensive left-wingers continue to waste vast amounts of energy "banning" the conservatives from FS, yet those same offensive left-wingers can freely post over here at Concerned Members.

The left-wingers at FS have always had, and still have, a penchant for posting messages intended to bash, hurt, revile, insult, and hurl all manner of personal attacks against those with whom they disagree. They previously delivered these messages of derision against the regulars from Concerned Members and other conservatives who once posted there. Now according to Jimmy, with the conservatives gone, the left-wingers are left with attacking each other and are doing so without reducing the amount of bile and vinegar spewed in the process.

When I posted at FS, it was commonplace to see a string of responses by the left-wingers, and sometimes they would expend much energy to create new threads just to bash me. I really didn't need to read such posts and often passed them by, because they were filled with the same offal of insults and derision.

That said, consider this: Who is really hurt when left-wingers revile and ridicule their opponents? Many of them at FS follow the bizarre notion that they are actually "serving God" when they revile and insult, and that their opponents will be justifiably mutilated and hacked to pieces in the process. What kind of "Christianity" is FS promoting by this kind of vicious heresy?

The FS left-wingers seem oblivious to the fact that verbally ripping and hacking others requires an abundant "spirit of mean-spiritedness" as well as an ample dose of blind hatred, attributes which find no place among faithful Christians. So who is really hurt in the process? First Cor. 6:9-10 (KJV) brands those who revile others as "unrighteous" and promises that they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Thus it is logical to conclude that when the FS left-wingers verbally hack and slash, they do nothing more than hack and slash their own souls to ribbons.

Rick if you are really such a misunderstood preacher and Jimmy misrepresented you, you could have set the record straight by inviting CM readers to FS to read your post. Now all you can do is ask the CM readers to take your word for it.

After Jimmy posted some of the things that you had written you immediately deleted those wicked things plus some others that I have not mentioned yet.

If you kept copies why not post them here?

In Christ,
Jimmy

Jimmy,

I see you do not deny editing the posts. I never said I was misrepresented, either. If you read what I wrote you will see that. My objection was to your unethical behavior in copying and pasting posts from fs. That is a direct violation of fs rules. You also make another false assumption by writing this: "you could have set the record straight by inviting CM readers to FS to read your post." The assumption is that I had something to set straight. I did not. I already said earlier that I was wrong in writing what I did. Again, I did not say that you misprepresented me. I don't know what your reasons were.

Then you did something even stranger. You wrote this, referring to yourself in the 3rd person. "After Jimmy posted some of the things that you had written you immediately deleted those wicked things plus some others that I have not mentioned yet." That seemed to indicate that you wanted to continue your unethical actions.

Of course I deleted the posts, and I did not keep copies. I was ashamed of them. Why would I want to repost them here? I did not want you to repost them here, either. I e-mailed the other poster and advised her to delete her posts, also, so you would not have any more fuel to add to this fire.

Again, I ask you, what is to be gained by dragging an old argument through the mud again? Are you trying to re-open old wounds?

It won't work.

Rick

Everyone.

The point is that if messages which deliberately bash, hurt, insult, and attack others are never read by the intended recipients, then the only ones hurt are those who write such evil messages. Some may argue, "If the message is never read, then there's no harm done." Not so. Evil messages always hurt people, yet they don't always hurt the intended recipients.

That's the whole point of the parody about the tree falling in the forest and no one around to hear it make a sound: If messages designed to hurt others are never read by the intended recipients, is anyone hurt in the process? Answer: Yes--only the ones who write the messages, not the intended recipients.

Why?

Writing messages with the intent to hurt and ridicule others requires two vile attributes: (1) a "spirit of mean-spiritedness" and (2) blind hate. Neither of these two attributes will ever be found in true Christians. Therefore, people who call themselves "servants of God" but who possess such vile attributes are not only hypocrites but also unrighteous, because they persistently revile others. According to 1 Cor. 6:9-10, revilers will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

So by attempting to destroy others, those who write destructive and hateful messages will only succeed in destroying themselves.

A black preacher friend in Seattle responded to my question about food in the old rural South where I lived in more slave cabins, picked more cotton and ate more watermellon which he hated. He told me what I knew about white people with a 1 candle power consiousness. He said that people literally hungered and suffered for lack of food when they often had unlimited space upon which to grow a garden. And the woods were well supplied with animals which could be snared and edible plants everywhere.

My mother and father grew hordes of vegetables until Dad was passed 90. Mom would call some pour soul and ask her if she needed any produce. She laughed about a common question--as only she could mock them--"Air they a picked yeet?" Well off people love to go pick vegetables and some for the poor neighbor. People with a shred of Bible knowledge love to be instructed and challenged by anyone who can speak in "whole thought text" rather than lying by quoting isolated verses. I have noticed that preachers get huffy and call you insane when you try to share some new information. It is a fact that when you go TOO LONG without food you are no longer ABLE to eat.

More sinster and spooky is that I remember that Jesus, Peter, Paul and others spoke of the gospel as being liberation FROM "this crooked generation" or "brood of vipers." Peter said that this happened when God gave us A holy spirit so that we can worship in the PLACE of the human spirit: and you CANNOT worship God in houses or by hands even though you may sit in a building. You spit in the face of God when you refuse to take his free gift, plant and water it.

We have the power to work and grow food: it is the GIFT of God. What ingratitude when grown men hunger and thirst for the Word of God and have NOT A holy spirit. Peter called this A good conscience which also means consiousness which means a CO-perception or A holy spirit. Without this supernatural CANDLE LIGHT (of the seven SPIRITS of God) you sit in the dining hall of the King of the universe and STARVE to death.

Nothing makes me literally shudder, even as it validates my faith in the WORD as a food supply from God, more than people who stick pins in one another proving a terminal malnutrition when they have the CODE BOOK or KEYS to the kingdom which Jesus said the "doctors of the Law take away and hide." They have the keys to the FOOD PANTRY and hunger and thirst for the Word of God and CANNOT FIND it. This is THE meaning of baptism: it is a portal which Jesus passed through in a true sense as a "guide through grizzly bear country." Yet, the vipers are so fearful of water that they cannot take a bath. For example,

As a results of instrumental "worship" in the OLD wineskins religion which virtually terminated Israel at Mount Sinai, Amos warned.

Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail, Amos 8:4

Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,
making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balance [sermonizing]

Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail, Amos 8:4 [in Tithes and Offerings]

Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat,
making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? Amos 8:5

That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat? Amos 8:6

The Lord hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works. Amos 8:7

Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein?
and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt. Amos 8:8

And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord God,
that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:Amos 8:9

And I will turn your feasts into mourning,
and all your songs into lamentation;
and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head;
and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day. Amos 8:10

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land,
not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:Amos 8:11

And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east,
they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.Amos 8:12

In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.Amos 8:13

They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say,
Thy god, O Dan [USA?], liveth; and,
The manner of Beer-sheba liveth;
even they shall fall,
and NEVER rise up again.Amos 8:14

Music was and is always a MARK that people have fallen and cannot get up: when they call, God will not respond. God has been there and here "and WILL NOT pass this way again."

How can you believe a Jeff Walling [etal] that God CHANGED HIS MIND about instruments "in worship?" How many I BELIEVES or I THINKS are you willing to put your TRUST IN as powerful enough to TRUMP the universal association between MUSIC and STEALING the spiritual food out of your mouth? If you have, say, a 7 candle power SPIRIT or LIGHT from God then how CAN you call people evil when they tell you the simple simon absolute truth: that NO ONE can give heed (Paul's only worship word) to God and His Words and at the SAME time to the pretend mediator singing HIS own "scripture" and making jitterbug mandatory that YOU--of human certainty--give your WHOLE attention to Him/Her/It and "their" words? If you cannot GRASP that or call it a LIE then God and the world will know that you have the "genetics" in John's words of the VIPER people and "name it and claim it because you have lost all CHOICE." I can understand Jeff's dilema if he has grasped that Jesus put the speakers, singers and musicians in the same SECT of Hypocrites. How can he question some one riding on the poor as MUSICIAN and at the same time perform the SAME act more attached to the word HYPOCRITE than say, cymbal clanger?

Too bad, that people who have unlawfully saddled widows and honest working people are the MOST HOSTILE to any words which do not fit the PATTERNISM in their own liberal, sectarian minds however vocally they SING and HARP that they are a CONSERVATIVE. Isn't it a proof of my thesis and that apparently of Jesus and all ancient commentators of the Bible that there are at least TWO SPIRITUAL or MENTAL species? While this den of vipers or generation of vipers or crooked (skolion, new wineskin singers) are able to MIMIC the species God put HIS SPIRIT into to make them "bara" or created as something ORIGINAL and NEW, they prove without a doubt that they have no more "Spirit" either infused or REgenerated at baptism than my Newfoundland barking at his echo from yon distant cliff. How else can you explain the response to just quoting the Word of Jesus Christ or commonly-known facts when they BARK "liar, liar, liar?" This species results when Satan puts HIS spirit into them as "replacement therapy" for their own squandered spirit FROM God. Because Judas was "well preped" it was the SOP as basic meaning of Psallo or "melody" which SIGNALLED the indwelling of Satan. Judas whose Judas Bag was for "carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments" always attached to the flute case of PERVERTED skolion singers (because they were often drunk to induce the 'spirit.') was prepped by those "fluted down along with wine" or drunk with wine" and UNABLE to speak "that which is written" meaning "scripture." He was Judas Sicarri: the daggar men or assasins who betrayed or murdered people "on contract" and then point an accusing finger at someone else. This same sect in later history is well documented as Hashish Men who we puffed by by drugs (or music?) to go do foul murder.

Because this is absolute truth, Jesus spoke in Parables "from the foundation of the world" to delude or keep this species of Cainites (from a musical note) occupying Jerusalem in place of the dispersed, faithful Jews FROM understanding what Paul identified as BLACK text on WHITE paper. If my count is correct only 120 of the local ISRAELITES were the remnant offered to God out of the several million Jews. The Rest of the baptized believers were from "the nations" and fled before the Spirit of FIRES and judgment BAPTIZED the whole city which John called SODOM. Adam Clark refers to linguistic evidence which shows that the NACHASH or SERPENT was a species like the Babboon which has much of the vocal mechanism as humans. The Babylonian tablets clearly identify a species of humanoids which were less diluted but their DNA still exists.

So, if your response is to HISS when someone posts Biblical text rather than discussing and debating it then you KNOW that you are of the seed of the Devil who insists on "speaking on his own" and are literally stinging speakers of the Word as it has been revealed. I check in on the feminized den once in a while but get that sick in the stomach feeling like when you hear the rattles which WARN with no lust to BITE. That is my thesis and the HISSING and BARKING proves that neither "wing" of the hen-pecked "foul" has a clue to the meaning of the BODY which rides on NEITHER wing or they would quit whining and show some hint of interest in the 100% of human history and background to the Bible which they avoid like vipers avoid water. I have given up doubting new findings that PRACTICES make permanent changes to the DNA which is passed on to the next generation. That is why people still BELIEVE that they are Bible believers but lack the genetic machinery to think without images and sound bytes. Fact: read it and hiss.

The following is a modified version of an essay that I had posted a few months ago at FS but which apparently did not survive the axes of the moderators over there. The term "spiritual maverick" may appear from time to time in discussions about the Change Movement, so Christians should be familiar with it.

"Spiritual maverick": Apparently some believe that, like truth, a definition depends on each person's viewpoint. Liberals hold that the ultimate spiritual maverick was Jesus, Who bucked the religious status quo of the day and Who opposed the legalism of the Pharisees. Thus liberals claim that by being spiritual mavericks, they emulate Christ in that they shun "legalism" by shunning strict obedience to rules, regulations, and commandments. In reality, liberals put Christ in the role of a rebel and heretic to justify their own penchant for ignoring the Authority of Christ in the Scriptures. While liberals may see themselves as mavericks in a positive light, they often turn face and become offended when conservatives refer to them by the same term. It's really quite similar to the situation with blacks and the "N" word. Blacks quite often call each other by the "N" word and are comfortable with it among themselves, yet if whites use that word, blacks turn face and become highly offended. So it's a double standard.

Conservatives, on the other hand, define “spiritual mavericks” as those who fail to conform to the tenets of the New Testament; who prefer to march to the beat of another gospel; who place prejudices, preferences, and man-contrived creeds ahead of "Thus saith the Lord"; and who behave in a vile, abusive manner toward those who urge others to follow the tenets of Christ in the New Testament faithfully. By this definition, Jesus could never have been a spiritual maverick, because He would never have defied His Father’s will. Although Jesus seemed to buck the hypocritical Pharisees, in reality He was following His Father’s will by preparing His followers to retire the Old Law of Moses once and for all after He died, arose, and ascended. Jesus was very much attuned to obedience, having obeyed His Father even unto death, and in turn having ordered that His disciples should also obey Him in all things (Matt. 28:20 KJV).

So who is a “spiritual maverick”? It is anyone who attempts to find his own way to salvation by failing to submit to the absolute Authority of Christ in all things; who takes the easy, wide, ecumenical path of the Change Movement, the popular path of the Change Movement, and the glitzy and dazzling path of the Change Movement, instead of the narrow and difficult path as laid out in the New Testament.

Here’s another essay that I had posted at FS just a few days ago but which the moderators over there axed again. No names of people or web sites were ever mentioned, yet FS deleted it nonetheless (along with all my other posts). Hopefully, the essay will find a better home here, for the sentiments expressed herein are worthwhile to liberals and conservatives alike. I thank Jimmy Wren for his kind comments about the essay while it lasted at FS.

Usually we think of adults as the teachers and children as the learners. But in some instances, children can teach adults--if the adults are receptive to learning. Take children’s arguments, for example. Children have a set pattern for “conducting” their arguments, even though they may not realize the mechanics involved.

The squabble may be over a toy or some other petty nonsense. The combatants first banter back and forth over who has right of possession: “That’s mine…No it isn’t, it’s mine!” Or perhaps the argument may be over an “opinion”: “You’re wrong and I’m right!” “No, I’m right and you’re wrong!”

Eventually, one child will sense that he is losing ground to the dominant opponent. What does he do? He initiates the next phase, which involves insults and name-calling: “Aw, you’re just stupid!” Then they haggle over who’s really stupid: “No I’m not, you’re the stupid!” “Whadda ya mean--I’m not stupid…Yes you are…No I’m not…Yes you are…!!” Or one child may attack the other’s relative: “Your daddy’s a wimp…No he ain’t…Yes he is…No he ain’t…!!” Of course, absolutely nothing is accomplished in such goings-on, except maybe an acceleration to a physical altercation and a bloody nose, but such are the immature ways of children.

So what can we as adults learn from children’s arguments? Perhaps many adults do not realize that they actually behave quite similarly to children when discussing controversial topics. Poorly prepared, lacking proper evidence, or otherwise unable to present their arguments in a mature and convincing manner, some adults resort to name-calling, insults, and personal attacks, because they literally have no resources left. Rather than admit that they have nothing to offer and that they are defeated and should bow out with honor, these adults become like angry little children and allow their wounded egos to take over. But whereas their behavior may be incredibly immature, the resulting name-calling, insults, and personal attacks can take on “adult” qualities in the form of vile, hateful imprecations.

Adults behaving in this manner further put their very souls in jeopardy when their anger and hatred of their opponents prompts responses of reviling, derision, and ridicule. First Cor. 6:9-10 (KJV) not only brands those who revile others as “unrighteous,” it promises that revilers will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Yes, children can teach adults much. Let us strive to discuss topics without destroying our souls in the process.

I can surmise two reasons why FS deleted this essay: (1) I am a conservative, which brands FS as biased and prejudicial; (2) The FS liberals personally saw themselves as the adults behaving as immature yet hateful children; being offended, they threw a tantrum to have the essay deleted, which brands the FS liberals as much too fearful of facing and conquering their own malicious shortcomings.

You can attempt to silence those who expose the truth, but you can NEVER silence the truth itself. Truth ALWAYS finds a way to make itself known.

Rick how do you reburk a person within your congregation?

I noticed that you use strong, even ugly, language when you reburk me, v-jo, walt and others. I was just wondering do you follow Ken Mathews way? Ken wrote a post to v-jo on FS stating that the old gentleman who had help start his church, Union Street Church of Christ, and had given so much money to help keep the doors open, was finally ran off. The old gentleman now has to worship at another place.

I was just wondering if that is what you do to people in the congregation that you disagree with?

In Christ,
Jimmy

Jimmy,

I have never "reburked" walt. Why did you say that?

I haven't even rebuked him.

I have never rebuked anybody in the congregation I serve.

I apologized to v-jo. She did not deserve the things I wrote.

The rest speaks for itself. I have called you to repentance. You have yet to apologize for your lie about me being banned.

What is keeping you from doing that?

Rick

"Ken wrote a post to v-jo on FS stating that the old gentleman who had help start his church, [________________], and had given so much money to help keep the doors open, was finally ran off. The old gentleman now has to worship at another place."

Really, jimmywren? Those were his exact words? I never saw the post.

"Run off"? Perhaps it was because he tried to control the church with his $$$$$$$$$. Perhaps he left of his own free will because he could no longer manipulate them with his $$$$$$$. Perhaps not.

All that has nothing to do with Rick or Ken or me, anyway.

You ref. a post to me by Ken M. Supply the post #, Or numberS, is this another one of your selective cut-and-paste hatchet numbers. IOW, I want to read the post for myself. I never take your word for anything. (BTW, I have spoken with Ken M. about this.)

Also, there is no Union Street Church of Christ. Never was. I should know. I used to live in his house.

Doctor, I am not a moderator at FS, although I do post on that site from time to time. It is my opinion that the reason the above post was removed was not because of it's content, but rather because you have been banned from that site on a number of instances.

"Conservative" members, as you call them have not all been banned. Jimmy Wren has not been banned. Mike Dugger (a graduate of MSOP and minister at a very conservative congregation) was not banned, although he has chosen to spend his time at the Grace Centered site.

It is my opinion that you were banned because of your abusive and childish behavior. Not because you were a "conservative."

Tom, if you think my behavior is "abusive and childish," then I guess the rank and repulsive behavior which many at FS have demonstrated against conservatives is biblical and condoned by the New Testament. Just look at how Rick and others howl and try to chew up Jimmy Wren. He's the most benign guy on that board, and a conservative at that, the only one left.

No, Tom, you perceive my behavior as "abusive," because I rebuke you and the other liberals there at FS for your persistent violations of 1 Cor. 6:9-10. You despise being called to task for it, and you retaliate by abusing those who rebuke you. You and the other liberals (better yet, spiritual mavericks) there at FS need to face that fact and move on.

BTW, since the "Children Can Teach Adults" post never mentioned any names or web sites, but taught everyone a valuable lesson, why was it nonetheless deleted at FS, if not because I am a conservative? No, Tom, it's because I am a very strong conservative, and you very well know that STRONG conservatives are not wanted at FS, no matter how much you and the other liberals there deny it.

Doctor, let's see if you are willing to DIALOGUE about this for a bit.

You have repeatedly called me a "liberal." What is it, in your eyes, that makes me a "liberal?"

I gather that Tom detests being branded a "liberal," yet he runs with and supports the pack of liberals at FS, who BTW persistenly bash and revile those with whom they disagree. OK, we'll accommodate Tom. Maybe "spiritual maverick" would be more accurate. Personally, I think "liberal" is more polite and easier on the ears.

On the other hand, if Tom claims to be a conservative, he surely caters and cuddles up to the liberals at FS, who BTW persistently bash and revile those with whom they disagree (yeah, I said it before, but I said it again for emphasis). But since Tom has a penchant for becoming highly perturbed whenever anyone rebukes the liberals at FS, then I do wonder where in this world I got the notion that Tom is a LIBERAL!

Doctor, I do think you behavior at FS was abusive and childish. I also believe that the behavior of several of the others at that site was abusive and childish as well. That is not the point.

The point is that you purport to represent the Churches of Christ. You should be held to a higher standard of behavior. You have failed in doing so, miserably.

Anon fails to realize that many, but not all, of the bashers and revilers at FS also represent the churches of Christ, albeit they are far more liberally minded. Instead of bashing me, Anon should concentrate on urging those bashers and revilers at FS to heed 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and stop reviling those with whom they disagree. But then I believe that Anon IS indeed one of those bashers and revilers at FS. That's why s/he won't reveal his/her name.

After reading Tom’s latest less-than-friendly (shall we really call it acrimonious) epistle, I detect that he suffers from an acute dietary deficiency which requires immediate, emergency treatment. Here’s a prescription that should fix him up directly and make him a much more humble man. And when folks like Tom desperately require my "emergency services," I gladly waive my customary fee:

*****************
Date: October 26, 2006
Patient: Tom Brite, spiritual maverick
Address: Nest of spiritual mavericks infesting FS
Rx: Corvus brachyrhynchos
Dispense: 30, plucked (1 month’s supply; keep frozen until ready to use)
Sig.: Thaw, roast, and eat 1 daily
Refills: 12 (may refill through October 26, 2007, after which time prescription renewal is required--and is strongly recommended)
Substitution: NOT allowed
******************
Note: This prescription is not available in standard pharmacies. Patient should take prescription to nearest Corvus aviary ASAP where specially trained, sympathetic personnel will gladly see to his desperate needs.

Have a wonderful day!

Doctor, I see that, again, you are unable to respond with any facts. I guess that should be expected.

Sorry, don't need your prescriptions. My wife can provide my prescriptions. Besides, they might turn me into the hateful, childish person that you have unfortunately become.

I believe that I forgot to post my name with the previous post. It was from me.

O.K.- there IS one thing I am confused about. On October 20th, Bill Crump said this:

"When I posted at FS, it was commonplace to see a string of responses...."



Then, on October 25th, he posted this:

"Here’s another essay that I had posted at FS just a few days ago but which the moderators over there axed again."


Which is it? Do you still post there, or not? Does this go along with your constant claims that you don't read any of the "slanderous" posts over there, yet somehow, you seem to respond to ALL of them?

I would love, but do not expect a direct answer from Bill Crump, but I don't think he'll give one, and I do expect Sublett to butt in with some of his ramblings.

By the way, DONNIE CRUZ, since you got rid of Nadab by saying that you fully believe Ken Sublett to always tell the truth, never lie, and to be full of integrity, defend these intelligent, and clearly Christ-like postings from your idol Ken:



"Nablab is stil Urinated Off that he procured a DEGREE from Anti-Christ University..."

"A black preacher friend in Seattle responded to my question about food in the old rural South where I lived in more slave cabins, picked more cotton and ate more watermellon which he hated. He told me what I knew about white people with a 1 candle power consiousness."

"I understand that the old coon hunting fraternities did some odd things to accept you as a "brother." "Iffen yal will swaller yore chaw, drank a quart of my latest lead-based snake bite remedy and have sex with my best bitch THEN we will shake your whatever and you are ONE of us."




You may hate Nadab, and all the other Faithsite conservatives, but when you not only align yourself with, but sing the praises of, and heartily endorse people who say things like this, you are revealing some sickening aspects of your character and integrity.

To see whether I post at FS or not, all Anon. has to do is peruse several FS pages and see if I'm there. But wait...that won't do much good, because the biased and prejudicial moderators there deleted my posts; that's why I reposted some of the more timely messages over here. And what's this half-baked notion that Anon has about my responding to every post at FS? Like I said over there when I was there, I rarely read any of the liberals' responses to my own posts, because I knew from past experience that those responses contained nothing but insults and personal attacks. I never said that I didn't read other posts from the liberals. I then selectively responded to a few of those liberals who were the furthest out in left field, whose train of thought would lead less-informed Christians astray. But the biased and prejudicial moderators over at FS have decided to have a "closed society" of liberals and delete practically all posts from conservatives. The only conservative remaining there that I know of is Jimmy Wren, and he's bashed and reviled every time he posts anything, regardless of what he posts. For example, "preacher" Rick at FS has said he prays that the moderators will ban Jimmy. That's some fitting prayer request for a "preacher" to make (along with the usual requests to bless the poor, heal the sick, and guide, guard, and direct us)! I'm sure Jimmy remembers Rick's kind sentiment.

Now that I've spent far too much time addressing a "phantom," it's time for him/her to cast off that cowardly mask and reveal his/her full identity. Which one of the liberals from FS hides behind "Anonymous"?

You mumblers should grasp that faithslight.con has become a vast intellectual wasteland. When you have SFH who has apparently taken control trying to argue with Walt you know that no one is ever going to be able to defend the historic Christian positionns.

This thread will probably get 300 to 500 reads today and the numbers at FS must consist totally of the tiny few posters who have not been censured. YTBH did the bust job as usual and the male whiners who couldn't tolerate the loss of Chatty Cathyism must have gagged at the feminist controller and decided that it was not a safe house after all: I commend the ladies of IQ who consider the modulator as less then honorable.

Wave, I assign you the Code of Hammurabi to research and post at CM. Dr. Pill Pump could do research on mummification. He might comment on the significance of NO DNA in those 4004BC dinosaur bones. No mumbling and muttering permitted.

All people of honor should remove life support from FS: you are endorsing evil.

Max Moon wins!

Now Dr. Bill Crump can eat some Ice CROWm!

Once upon a time, there were two groups of Christians: a group of conservative Christians and a group of liberal Christians. Whereas the conservatives were strong Bible-believers, the liberals supplemented God's Word with man's creeds, prejudices, and preferences as they saw fit. Furthermore, the liberals despised the conservatives for their strong faith and reviled, insulted, and hurled personal attacks at them at every chance.

And it came to pass that an opportunity arose for the two groups to compete in a cross-country race. So the liberals conspired to fix the race so that they would win, for overthrowing the conservatives dominated the liberals' lives. The liberals planted assailants behind the trees all along the route, and as the contestants ran past, the assailants used clubs and bashed the conservatives in the knees one by one to incapacitate them. They made sure that any conservatives in the lead were eliminated directly.

As expected, the liberals "won" the race, and only a small handful of conservatives were left standing. The liberals were elated and approached these few conservatives with mocking comments of, "WE WON! YOU LOST! WE WON! YOU LOST! YA YA YAAAAA!

The few conservatives congratulated their opponents on their "win," yet the liberals taunted and mocked them to scorn even more. Then one conservative asked, "What did you guys really 'win'? You eliminated most of us along the way because you felt you couldn't equally compete. Were you so desperately afraid that we just might win that you resorted to such abominble behavior to guarantee that we didn't win?"

The liberal "winners" became violently enraged. "How dare you rebuke us! Anything goes, for we don't abide by any rules! Besides, the rule book never said we couldn't do what we did," they screamed, "so we won and you miserable *&%#@ lost! Live with it! YAAAAAAAA!"

If one can only "win" by eliminating the competition beforehand, there is absolutely no honor therein, for it is a "win" of shame and disgrace. Cowards and those fearing their competitors "win" in this manner. He who hath ears, let him hear.

I won, and you did not! Only sore loser whiney pants write a post that long about crying because they didn't win!

I want to celebrate my win, so Dr. Bill Crump, have some Ice CROWm!

Max deludes himself and celebrates a "false win" because he had the moderators eliminate most of the conservative competition from FaithSite. Anyone can boost their fragile little egos and claim to be a "winner" if there's no one around to defeat. It's like deciding that you're going to make yourself look really big by "challenging" the whole North Korean army, for example. You go out into your yard on Main Street, USA, and scream at the top of your lungs, "I challenge the whole North Korean army to fight me!" Then you sit back, and after an hour or so when that army doesn't show up, you declare to the world, "I WON! THEY LOST! I WON! THEY LOST!" and you feel really "proud." But it's all a sham and a delusion--false.

Unfortunately, Max is living in an infantile, fantasy world of pipe dreams and make-believe, an egomaniacal world for which the magical wonders of modern pharmaceutical chemistry may ultimately be required to supplement his current, steady diet of Corvus (CROW) and Mephitis (SKUNK).

Since I know that the major MISS leader over in the vast waist land is fueled by the likes of Leroy Garrett, Reubel Shelly and EVEN Al Maxey in their RACA hate crimes against anyone who is Bible literate 101aaa about Music and Satan and The Harlot religion, I thought you might miss it if I didn't post something REALLY perverse for you. It is APPARENTLY a sign of the holy spirit person's leading that one can get paid as a preacher and LIFT isolated texts in order to teach a lie. Why do YOU think that this is possible for people who have left lying? We had about 650 readers yesterday so FALSE teachers will simply be ignored.

Al Maxey has published his PLAN for the NEW CHURCH OF CHRIST (didn't he attend a Christian Church college?): it is the same old scam that if YOU will affirm the instrumental churches and those who practice WHATEVER as long as they have been dipped in water (or maybe not since knowledge is not important), and YOU fellowship pagan instruments THEN we will all be in a UNION.

Apparently Al Maxey's predestinated task in life is to find someone like Jesus defending the LAW OF SILENCE by violating the Law so that he can add or fellowship the use of instrumental music. Like his mentors such as Leroy Garrett he hallucinates the GUILT CLAUSE which says: "I have forced the organ into your church, and no you (J.W.McGarvey) will not be able to speak against it, and if YOU leave then YOU are sowing discord."

http://www.piney.com/MuJWMc.html

Al Maxey rests on the false dogma that churches of Christ had ROOTS with the Stoneites at Cain Ridge in a ritual defined by fairly modern "devil worship" in Iraq. The ONLY similarity between Stone and Campbell is that they both supported the BIBLE as the only authority for faith and practice: but so did Martin Luther, John Calvin and all historic scholars. He also hallucinates that only SOME of the Reformers thought that they had ANY VALIDITY for a new church: minimal common sense according to Alexander Campbell would ask THEN WHAT DO YOU THINK WE HAVE BEEN TEACHING.

I say again and again that the Bible, Jesus and all contemporaneous literature proves that the Cainite (from a musical note) RACE as OF that wicked one survived the flood through the wives and immediately set up what we know from the Babylonian tablets as descendants who OPPRESSED others with music to be able to SELL BACK the people's own cows which they had "penned up" and kept SAFE. I know of no other explanation for people on MISSION to prove that the 100% Biblical testimony that music came with Lucifer and the message of the musicians to God is: "Shut your face, we will not listen to YOUR words." That includes Eve, Nadab and Abihu, earlier in Job 21 and many Biblical passages where MUSIC is within itself proof that people WILL NOT listen to the Words of God: Al Maxey accepting an UNAUTHORIZED salary is proof because Jesus paid it all, Paul repudiated THE LAW OF GIVING and all historic scholarship--including John Calvin and Restoration leader.

Al Maxey: A Christian Sister's Challenge

As anyone knows who has ever dared to set forth his views and convictions before the public in written form, as Campbell did in his journals, there will be those who question and challenge those convictions. Alexander Campbell received his fair share of criticism and condemnation from those who did not appreciate his perspectives. One such challenge came from an unnamed woman in Lunenburg, Virginia (now located in West Virginia), whose letter to him was dated July 8, 1837. She wrote this very brief letter to question a statement he had made in the June, 1837 issue of The Millennial Harbinger. Her question, and his response to her, have had a tremendous effect upon the thinking of disciples of Christ for generations. Some have suggested this correspondence has become his most controversial, and certainly one of his most misunderstood. It has been praised, as well as condemned, far and wide. In this current edition of Reflections I would like for us to take a closer look at this most fascinating and historic exchange, which has come to be called The Lunenburg Letter. For those unfamiliar with it, it can be read in its entirety at the following web site:

In an article entitled "Letters to England -- No. 1" (Millennial Harbinger, June, 1837) Campbell sought to motivate his BRETGHREN to cooperate with other Christians everywhere in a global effort to "promote every benevolent, humane, and charitable object which can ameliorate the conditions of human existence." He provided quite an itemized accounting of such Christian efforts, and urged believers to join hands in such endeavors.

Where he "crossed the line," in the minds of SOME, however, was in his view that we should join hands with those outside sectarian parameters, and together, as fellow believers, seek to push back the effects of the present spiritual darkness (which is our true).

I will jump ahead to hear the REAL Campbell ask a QUESTION which proves that Campbel DID NOT THINK that the SECTS were Christian!

ANY CHRISTIANS AMONG THE SECTS? JUDGING from numerous letters received at this office, my reply to the sister from Lunenburg has given some pain to our brethren, and some pleasure to our SECTARIAN friends. The builders up of the PARTIES tauntingly say to our BRETHREN, "Then we are as safe as you," and "You are COMING OVER to us, having now conceded the greatest of all points--viz. that immersion is NOT essential to a Christian." Some of our brethren seem to think that we have NEUTRALIZED much that has been said on the importance of baptism for remission, and disarmed them of much of their artillery against the IGNORANCE, ERROR, and INDIFFERENCE of the times upon the whole subject of Christian duty and Christian privilege.

Would you say that OTHERS were ECUMENICAL and only SOME "legalistic, sectarian, hypocrites" refused to JOIN? You COULDN'T have "joined" a Baptist or Presbyterian church without some supernatural SIGN that you were saved the INSTANT you believed or from ALL ETERNITY. You could NOT be ecumenical without agreeing with them. Therefore, Al Maxey insists that we AGREE that all "water babies" ARE SAVED.
I suggest, as with all Lunenber distorters, that Al got those words from Leroy Garrett or others. He alludes to the document but does not quote it:

Campbell: "Touching your inquiries on some matters, I hasten to observe,--that our brethren GENERALLY regard the church as the ONLY moral or religious association which they can lawfully PATRONIZE. Hence they form NOT Missionary, Education, Tract, Bible, Temperance, Anti-Slavery confederations.

The CHRISTIAN CHURCHES formed these INSTITUTES and therefore because they ADDED something not absolutely required to be a "church" THEY deliberately sowed discord and the SECTARIANS are those who ADDED something not generally held by CHRISTIANS for all of recorded history.
Can you see any difference between Al's OF SOME and Campbell's OUR BRETHREN GENERALLY? As a BODY, Campbell will MOCK people who think that he did his work believing that the DENOMINATINS were already the CHURCH OF CHRIST.

Now, honest readers will look at the list of things that CHRISTIANS as individuals can be involved with and ECUMENICAL is NOT on the list! However, IF they are good works, he has another view:

If these are good works, they belong to the CHURCH in her OWN proper character;
and every member of the church is, AS a Christian,
obliged to promote these objects as far as he has the MEANS and the opportunity.

The Christian institution, in our judgment, demands of all its subjects THEIR best efforts to put down all profanity, unrighteousness, injustice, oppression, and cruelty in the world; and to promote every benevolent, humane, and charitable object which can ameliorate the conditions of human existence.
distinctions and differences, as their fellow-creatures, as subjects of God's philanthropy, [in his next restatement he adds]
to be taught his religion, and trained for immortality, are propositions or tenets held by us sacred as the precepts of Christ.

But, back to the CHURCH as a body and NOT just individuals: he moves into things permitted by the whole church.

That the gospel ought to be preached; that evangelists or missionaries ought to be SENT OUT and sustained by THE CHURCH;
that the whole community should be intellectually and morally educated--
every child born upon our soil so trained as to be a useful, safe and honorable member of society;
that the Bible always, and sometimes religious tracts, newspapers, magazines and pamphlets
should be widely circulated in the world; that Christians should be temperate in all things,
and especially so in the use of all intoxicating liquors, and perhaps sometimes wholly abstinent;
that they should not, after communing at the Lord's table, unite in any secret, political, or moral combination with the Lord's enemies, Turks, Jews, or Atheists; that they should oppose all schemes of robbery and oppression, whether the victims be white, black, or yellow--bond servant or hired servant; that Christians should render to their servants every thing that is just and equal; that they should not, even when the laws permit them, violate or cause others to violate

The Bible identifies OPPRESSION or A BURDEN as singing songs to force people to conform or "take taxes not in warfare." Early restorers denied the role of the BUDGET and of "adding any anxiety such as DEBT. Al Maxey wants to form TEMPLES to attractg customers to hear HIS WORDS and the best way to do that is MUSIC. If we as a group pay anyone they should be SENT OUT and sustained by the church. There is no hint of a young PREACHER and Alexander Campbell calls the preachercraft as the CRAFTIEST CRAFT OF ALL.

Al Maxey wrote that Campbell wrote,"We would, indeed, have no objections to co-operate in these matters with all Christians, and raise contributions for all such purposes as, in our judgment, are promotive of the Divine glory or of human happiness, whether or not they belong to our churches: for we find in all Protestant parties Christians as exemplary as ourselves according to their and our relative knowledge and opportunities." The italicized phrase is the one that generated the letter of concern from the sister in Lunenburg.

But Campbell wrote:We would, indeed, have no objections to co-operate in these matters with all Christians, and raise contributions for all such purposes as, in our judgment, are promotive of the Divine glory or of human happiness, whether or not they belong to our churches: FOR WE FIND IN ALL PROTESTANT PARTIES CHRISTIANS as exemplary as ourselves according to their and our relative knowledge and opportunities;

Why did Al Malxey GAG? Al doesn't read further to note that Campbell spoke of "c" christians and "C" Christians.

but we cannot form a confederacy with the troops of Satan, or tax his subjects to sustain the Christian cause;
and, therefore, so long as all these associations openly and avowedly form a community on any one of these bonds of union,
irrespective of citizenship in the kingdom of heaven;

I say, so long as they hold communion with profane and ungodly persons, or with Gentiles of no creed and every creed,
because of a SINGLE point of COINCIDENCE, whatever that point may be,
we cannot unite with them, or sail under such a flag.

Besides, if such schemes are really necessary, then has the church failed--
then the Divine institution must yield the palm to institutions merely human. (pp. 271-273)

Does Campbell's identificaton of SECTS and of those claimig that GOD FAILED because of their innovation mean that he wanted to have SWEET FELLOWSHIP with them? This is about the worst form of perversion of the truth which is USUALLY used by those who have LOST fellowship with faithful churches of Christ and, like the story of the Musical Fall in The Book of Enoch, they LUST to force their now-mortal enemies worthy of many RACA words, to be shamed into submission.

That sounds like speak where the Bible speaks and IF anyone has added anything such as MUSIC which is utterly condemned beginning in the garden of Eden and culminating in defining the BABYLON WHORE using "speakers, singers and musicians" the Campbell NEVER remotely hinted at being ECUMENICAL. The word ECUMENICAL does not appear in the Lunenberg body of correspondence.

Why do you think people want to build an ECUMENICAL CHURCH and lift isolated "evidence" from dead men but then DISTORT what honorable men wrote. The Lunenberg correspondence has NEVER been used honestly by those whose SOLE motive is to force a shotgun marriage between two religious groups which are not even of the same species. Anyone who would try to force people to "worship" with musical forms when the concept is NOT in the Bible for God's faiithful. Furthermore, all musical terms and names of instruments in a "religious" sense point to Satan as the "singing and harp playing prostitute," prostitutes and Sodomites and in sacrificial altars which were NOT Israelite but were NATIONAL systems to which God ABANDONED many because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. The PERSONA of musicians has NEVER CHANGED in all of recorded history: wonder why people LUST to have males as theatrical and musical performers when ALL of the Greek language and Jesus identifies them as of the SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES.

More to follow..

Tom, old buddy, I would have thought that, being one of the boys at FS, you would have had a really great sense of humor. After all, you and the other liberals over there see bashing and ridiculing others as "just having good, clean fun." Or at least you guys manifest a highly cavalier attitude about it. Like truth, "fun" is in the eyes of the beholder, right? So I figured that you would really appreciate a little prescription "humor." But when YOU become the object of "humor," YOU become a rather acrimonious person. So perhaps you see that being ridiculed yourself is NOT funny at all! But since you have a penchant for running with and supporting those who thrive on ridiculing and bashing others, I really don't expect your kind to understand any of this at all.

Therefore, Tom, it's impossible to take you seriously. Run along home. Now I believe that there is a Corvus aviary not too far from where you live, so I suggest that you get yourself on down there pronto. Your Corvus level is dangerously low! For anyone else, I would have said to hurry down while supplies last, but in your case, which is most desperate, there are unlimited supplies of Corvus just waiting for your teeth to chomp into.

BTW, tell your friend Max that I've got a prescription for Mephitis mephitis waiting for him in additon to the Corvus he's been eating now for the last few weeks. You wouldn't believe it, but his case is actually worse than yours!

Doctor, I see that you are unwilling or unable to answer the question of what in your site makes me a "liberal." Somehow, I guess I should not be surprised. I guess I will just wait and see if you will ever answer the question.

It certainly is not because I "run with" the liberals at FS. I have had my share of disagreements with them, done in a civilized manner that did not embarrass Churches of Christ.

I will just sit back and wait for your explanation. How long will I have to wait? Your credibility is in question.

I doubt that any "explanation" I gave for why Tom is a liberal would ever satisfy Tom, because he's not going to accept anything I say, regardless of what I say. It's just the nature of the beast, or in Tom's case, the Corvus.

BTW, I gave an explanation on Oct. 28 at 12:49 AM in "RE: Children Can Teach Adults." One last time: I implied that Tom's a liberal not only because he runs with liberals at FS (here Tom stopped reading and denied guilt by association), but because he defends and supports liberals and takes their side against conservatives when the latter rebuke the liberals for their persistent violations of 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and their theological heresies. And since I was the principal one who had rebuked the FS liberals lately (most of the other conservatives at FS had left), and since Tom always took issue with me over it, that's as good an indicator as any that says "TOM BRITE IS A LIBERAL". Tom may deny it to the winds, but he's still a liberal at heart.

Now if Tom is still "waiting" for an explanation that will satifsy him, he'd better bring along an unlimited supply of Corvus to munch on, because it's gonna be a very long, long, LONG wait.

Doctor, I see that you got caught with your tongue in the cookie jar. You are, again, unwilling to DIALOGUE with anyone on this or anyother site.

A simple question it was. You are unwilling to answer. You have no credibility. You have no standards or morals. You continue to be an embarrassment to Churches of Christ.

I peeked in on FaithSlight and noted that the perpetual liars are at the Calvinist heresy again and old servant doesn't have a clue: probably never read the whole story.

If they had they would understand that TWO NATIONS were in the womb and no one was chosen to go to HELL or HEAVEN. Brian nor Walt nor Calvin can find a single person who is predestinated to be burned for eternity even if they died as an embryo JUST to prove that God is in charge. Nor, is anyone ever said to have contracted ORIGINAL sin more deadly than AIDS just because mommy had fun conceiving them.

Romans 9 through 11 proves JUST THE OPPOSITE: for those reading wwhole thought patterns, the JEWS thought that they were predestinated and could NOT be lost. In Romans 10 Paul proved that they were UNchosen because of musical idolatry. The PURPOSE is to prove that NO person is ceremonially impure (Cornelius) just as a pig is not unclean. Therefore,ALL Jews like ALL Gentiles are ELIGIBLE to be saved by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST. ALL races have sinned because each individual DID THEIR OWN sin and needed to be baptized and REgenerated.

Any person who can accuse God of being INFINITELY worse than Hitler undoubtedly prove that they are OF that CROOKED GENERATION which rejects baptism because Jesus won't let them hear the gospel (except in parables) and John won't baptize them because they belong to the VIPER generation. One KEY characteristic of the Viper is that they HATE WATER.

ALL of the evidence proves that Cain (from a musical note) was OF that wicked one because Paul said that Eve was wholly seduced like a new bride is seduced. Just last night TV showed a black baby and a white baby which came out of the same womb.

That Jerusalem was truly SODOM is proven by the fact that the CAINITES where Cain is "from a musical mark or note" is proven by Isaiah. The Cainites even BOAST about INFILTRATING and DIVERTING peaceable churches to make them "theaters for holy entertainment." The PATTERNISM repeats: Of the Lucifer BRANCH:

These infiltrating Canaanites weren't part of Yahweh's own vine, for they never were any part of true Israel. They had secured positions of wealth and power in Israel and Judah. They were corrupting the nation so that it was no longer bearing the sort of fruit, which Yahweh expected from His vine. These Canaanite infiltrators are also the same people against whom Yahweh spoke in Isaiah 57:3-4. In the Hebrew He calls these Canaanites, "children of inborn transgression, and a false seed."

In Isaiah 5 God sings a SONG and tells Israel that the vineyard had failed because of "wine, women and music." The same story is told in Amos 5-9: they were turned over to worship the starry host because they had LISTENED to the devil and the MARK was that they continued to replace the WORD with "songs in the temple" along with wine, women and instruments. This was repeated as the first Abomination of Desolation with Zeus worship (Note that they pronounce Jesus as Je Zeus or hail Zeus).

The prophecy was that there would be NO CANAANITE (traders) in the House of the Lord when Messiah came to baptize them with the SPIRIT OF Fire and Judgment. People who grasp DAVID as their music leader do not grasp that God gave the kings to LEAD the nation into captivity and death. We know that the temple was EVER a den of thieves and house of merchandise because it was a NATIONAL meaning GENTILE temple.

You will notice that Brian keeps posting the "punch line" but is not able to grasp that Grace is available THROUGH faith when Paul in Eph 1-2 details the same BAPTISM he defines in other letters. The word APISTOS as in 'believeth not' means that theyy REVOLT at the first part of the verse "He that believes AND is baptized SHALL BE saved."

So, the Calvinists and not the hen cluckers are back with a vengeance but NOT to worry: probably ten people will be exposed to the big fat lies of the Esau Nation. Make them find ONE person who was predestinated to hell or prove that you are a CALVINIST site. Make them find ONE person who was NOT righteous because they LIVED righteous or prove that you are FALSE TEACHERS. Make them find one person who is NOT blamed for their own sins or prove that it is GOD who has taken the site down just like he blows out the candles of those using "speakers, singers or musicians" John accused as Sorcerers working for the MOTHER/FATHER of the VIPER SEED generaton hatched when EVE questioned God's authority.

Rejecting the PREcounsel or FORORDAINED counsel of God to be baptized, the sectarians controlling Canaan and especially Jerusalem (a city set on seven hills) REFUSED to be baptized. They were not therefore sealed and a million UNbaptized Jews died and their bodies thrown on a bed of maggots at Topheth as the symbol of HELL which was prepared specificially for Lucifer, the singing and harp playing prostitute and all she could cheat with wine women and song. The place was PREDESTINATED also for liars and your "mentors" cannot say the whole truth. Amos said that the songs in the temple become mourning songs as they are led captive to Babylon and God said "I WILL NOT pass this way again." Isaiah 30 proves that the Wind, String and percussion instruments are the SOUNDS of God repaying His enemies as He BEATS them into TOPHETH. In that sense we have discovered those PREDESTINATED because they are the SEED of the serpent REgenerated by Him just as the SOP (base meaning of Psallo or melody) was the SIGN for Satan to fully take over Judas.

The meaning of ekklesia is synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE. Theologians "corrupt the Word" by a doomed style of inventing DOGMA by isolated bits of Scripture. John Calvin is a great scholar. However, when he spins off trying to defend the Augustinian (Catholic) dogma of original sin he is FORCED to prove his point just the way preachers usually do. If you read Romans 9 Paul is REPUDIATING predestination by defining the very NATURE of those who believed it. Modern neo-Calvinists use Malachi as the ALMOST UNIQUE proof text for personal selection FROM ALL ETERNITY of who will go to heaven and who will burn in hell. However, Malachi is discussing ISRAEL and EDOM and not the twins.

If God had predestinated ESAU to hell he did not say so in the beginning: rather, the love-hate has to do with a RETROSPECTIVE of the intrinsic natures of the two boys and the NATIONS THEY REPRESENT. In fact Esau has prospered as EDOM. Someone missed Bible 101a: God changed Jacob'a name to ISRAEL. TWO nations were in the womb: NOT two individuals, one doomed to burn on Augustine's Molech. Therefore, Paul is saying (in words easy to be perverted says Peter) that God LOVED THE ISRAELITES and HATED those who are identified as Hagar, Egypt, Mount Sinai, Jerusalem, Slavery and Sodom. If you get your clergy and music from JERUSALEM then you are MARKED as an EDOMITE whom God will burn. If God has turned you over to worship the STARS using music then you can claim ESAU for your birthright: the Midianites were there in the wilderness to seduce the Israelites.

The LOVE REWARD WAS NOT HEAVEN

God assigned the NATION of Israel the task of preserving the SEED of Abraham namely Jesus Christ where WE become sons of Abraham or spiritual Israelites and therefore CHOSEN when we by faith are BAPTIZED into Christ Who IS that preserved Seed. God loved Esau less by not trusting His plan to him. There is no hint that God DECIDED from eternity past that Esau would not be chosen to REPRESENT GOD to the world.

At the time of Jesus, the clergy, singers, musicians, priests and slaugherers of the innocent were the SEED of the SERPENT and were in fact mostly imported Arabs who displaced the true Israelites. l20 of the faithful Remnant were baptized or washed and made an offering to God while the resident Kenites or Cainites were burned up on a bed of maggots along with their harps and harpists: therefore, the Jews look for the harps in vain to restart the temple. Not a single ISAELITE died.

THE burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi. Malachi 1:1

When God "sings" to you it is rarerly good. God sang to Israel as a DOOM because they has replaced the WORD with wine, women and music. A burden is:

Massa (h4853) mas-saw'; from 5375; a burden; spec. tribute, or (abstr.) porterage; fig. an utterance, chiefly a doom, espec. singing; mental, desire: - burden, carry away, prophecy, * they set, song, tribute.

g5375 is the same as the Aresko or SELF-pleasuring Paul outlawed for the "school of the Bible" in Romans 15. The burden is intended to pronounce judgment.

Singing was usually a way to ENCHANT or control people or to TAUNT THEM. Jesus removed the LADED BURDEN which is SPECIFICIED in many of the uses of PAUO to mean "stop the speaking, stop the singing, stop the singing and stop ANYTHING which arouses mental excitement" because THAT is sorcery.

Malachi and therefore Paul is POINTS TO a retrospective to disabuse the JEWS of PREDESTINATION Just before Messiah would come and carry out the blessing to ALL NATIONS which neither ISRAEL nor EDOM.

I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacobs brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob, Malachi 1:2

In this PARABLE or BURDEN or judgment, Edom as a nation ceased to exist with the Jewish-Roman wars. ESAU means EDOM just as JACOB means ISRAEL. Edom means RED which identified ESAU and the nation of EDOM. Jesus said that parables had been spoken from the foundation of the world to DECEIVE this tpe of people. If you try to make God and Scripture lie by saying this has to do with God DOOMING Esau to burn in hell you are deluded and delusional and Calvinism as it is now taught proves that you, too, have sold your birthright for a song and sermon.

Now, Malachi did not say: I hated Esau and doomed him to burn in hell. Why? Because he is speaking of EDOM because ESAU does not have "mountains" and cities. This IS the "judgment" upon the nation and EVIL people just fabricate the burning in hell part: maybe they are true EDOMITES rather than ISRAELITES who are IDENTIFIED as the sons of Abraham when they by faith are baptized (Gal 3). The APISTOS who deny "faith and baptism shall be saved" are defined as REBELS or treacherous and may therefore be of ESAU.

And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. Malachi 1:3

Tannah(h8568) tan-naw'; prob. fem. of 8565; a female jackal, wild DOG, wolf. serpents: - dragon.

This is identical to Isaiah 5 where the purchased people had TURNED COAT by "wine women and music" and starved to death for the water of the Word.

The Babylon Whore religion is afflicted with the serpents which are the OPHIS identical to the NACHASH or musical enchanters or the "singing and harp playing prostitute." The SERPENT or OPHIS is enfolded in the word sOPHISts which is one of the SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES or public speakers who speaks in a polished form and NECESSARILY perverts the word for PROFIT which means that he is a corrupter or "seller at retail" which means an adulterer. The LOCUSTS in John's Revelation are the MUSES or Apollyon's "musical worship team" at the Delphi "seeker center." Jackals are the WOLVES or DOGS or catamites who, as elders in Acts 20, will be MARKED by employing the howling type of singing which is GRINDING (melody) and hurtful and intended to be SEDUCTIVE. The DOGS Paul said are OUTSIDE of the human spirit are the CATAMITES who tried to turn their TRICKS on Jesus by PIPING.

Now, we see Esau or EDOM and THEY are not in HELL but they are hated or LESS BLESSED and we actually see their "hell": they are IMPOVERISHED and not burning.

Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts,
They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and,
The PEOPLE against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever. Malachi 1:4

The descendants of Cain or Kenites and others of Esau had control over the sacrificial temples which was a GENTILE institution to which God abandoned Israel because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and then demanding a king LIKE THE GENTILES so they could WORSHIP LIKE THE GENTILES. We have noted that the musical GUILDS all had Canaanite names that BAAL was a favorite addition to their names. By the time of Jesus, most Israelites had fled and the GENTILE rulers had invited in Arabs or others who became priest as HIGHEST BIDDER.

And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The Lord will be magnified from the border of Israel. Malachi 1:5

A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the Lord of hosts unto you,

O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Malachi 1:6
Ye offer polluted bread [the WORD] upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the Lord is contemptible. Malachi 1:7

And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the Lord of hosts. Malachi 1:8

And now, I pray you, beseech God that he will be gracious unto us: this hath been by your means: will he regard your persons? saith the Lord of hosts. Malachi 1:9

Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand. Malachi 1:10

Herod was an EDOMITE and people called Rome EDOM. This Esau or Edom priesthood would be put down: the Jews claimed to be the SEED of Abraham but Jesus and Paul denied that they were true ISRAELITES. Therefore, we see the punishment of the EDOMITE.

Romans 9 has Paul telling the Jews who were mostly OF ESAU that THEY had not been predestinated: rather, Paul tells them by quoting ONLY Malachi, that their PRIESTHOOD and system of religion was NOT of ISRAEL but of EDOM. Again, the MARK of a loved ISRAELITE is that they WILL gladly submit to baptism and be CLOTHED with Jesuss Christ who was an ISRAELITE.

Paul also rebukes the JEWS who wanted Gentiles to become Jews before they could be baptized. By pointing to Malachi, Paul proves that the gospel was for ALL NATIONS and not just the Jews who HALLUCINATED that they were PREDESTINATED. It IS easy to pervert him by hearing him define DOGMA when he in fact points to THEIR proof text to prove that they were NOT predestinated. Those who claim to be predestinated and therefore despise baptism and thereby call God a liar will meet the same fate as the Edomites who are no represented by Rome whose religion FUELS most protestant churches. That is a visual aid of God sending strong delusions to people who do not honor the word as the ONLY resource for song and sermon.

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts. Malachi 1:11

But ye have profaned it, in that ye say, The table of the Lord is polluted; and the fruit thereof, even his meat, is contemptible. Malachi 1:12

Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it and ye have snuffed at it, saith the Lord of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the Lord. Malachi 1:13

The church in the wilderness defining the historic Synagogue, the example of Jesus, the direct command of Paul and the practice of the PRE ESAU church, the OFFERING was to be the fruit of the LIPS in speaking "that which is written." Those who invent their own songs and then splash them with "barbeque sauce" are bringint their OWN SICH offering as the INCENSE only individuals can make AFTER they are sanctified by God at the time and place of BAPTISM.

But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen. Malachi 1:14

JACOB means ISRAEL: ESAU means the EDOMITES.

The EDOMITES dominated Judaism to which modern corrupters of the word LUST for their usurped priesthood and SACRIFICIAL MUSIC (noise)

The Church of Christ is JACOB or ISRAEL because those who are baptized INTO Christ are sons of Abraham after Israel.

The prophecy will be fulfilled when the EDOMITES as the seed of the vipers or CROOKED generation singing skolion or new wineskin songs are MARKED as God actually promotes the Wind, String and Percussion instruments to DRIVE them into Topheth or Hell where they lusted and burned infants--as Augustine, Calvin, Brian and Walt claim god will do. Topheth was "Solomon's music grove" and the PAGANS he imported ruled the nation.

V-jo writes: There is no Union Street Church of Christ.

Jimmy replies: I never said there was. I used the same name for the church that you and Ken gave on the board at FS.

Remember Ken referred to himself as "unionstcoc" (see FS post #458). He also offered a link to the church's web site and called it the Union Street Church of Christ. You also said that was the place you and your husband had left. You also lamented the fact that the old gentleman who got ran off by his elder friend and elder Ken had heaped such afflection on you.

You do remember those post v-jo?

Your recent post have sparked more interest. One writer on FS writes: Ken,

Just wondering...why did the man leave?

Ken replies: "His best friend is the other elder as well as myself. Me and the other elder realized that we have sinned for many years by not talking to this man about his attitude and the fact he cannot control his tongue. When we did talk with him it did not go well. After about two months this man left and started to worship in another town.

I have learned in my short life that a man’s true character comes out when they are under pressure...a man has left that really paves the way for much growth. Thank you so much for asking..."

V-jo reponds: "That same man is the reason we left there. (My husband was Ken's predessor. Small world, huh?) He believed that the preacher was nothing more than a hired hand, and not a part of the church family. That was when we knew we were in the wrong place. This man believed children were to be seen and not heard. He believed that a new convert should be taught how to pray "properly". (The most beautiful prayer I ever heard in my whole life - after my children's prayers - was when a newly baptized older fella, "Bob", prayed in worship for the first time. He started with "Lord, it's me, Bob." My tears started rolling and didn't stop until this man took my husband aside after worship and tell my husband to spend some time with Bob and teach him how to pray "properly". My tears turned to anger then. He became an elder because the two elders we had thought we needed three. The two of them made the choice. It was not a church family decision. They knew up-front that my husband thought it was a bad idea. Took over a decade for them to correct that error."


V-Jo, does any of the above help you remember?

In Christ,
Jimmy

I am very well aware of those posts, in their completeness, not in your usual hatchet cut/paste form. I never referred to that congregation as "Union Street Church of Christ". In no place was there an indication that anyone, much less an "elderly gentleman", was a financial contributor from the beginning or was keeping the doors open by same. Your claims are a lie, jimmy wren.

I know all of the men about whom this conversation revolved. You don't. It is none of your business. So butt out, alleged-christian-who-goes-by-the-name-of-jimmy-wren.

You are a deceitful man, jimmy wren.

Proverbs 6:

"16 There are six things the LORD hates – no, seven things he detests: 17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that kill the innocent, 18 a heart that plots evil, feet that race to do wrong, 19 a false witness who pours out lies, a person who sows discord among brothers."

You are in BIG BIG trouble, alleged-christian-who-goes-by-the-name-of-jimmy-wren.

Regardless of what others do to us as Christians, no matter how much we feel that others have wronged us, Christ has stipulated that we are to forgive those who wrong us. Even Christ's model prayer now known as the Lord's Prayer contains the example that we are to ask God to forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

After Christ taught His disciples how to pray, He further emphasized forgiving others with the words, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matt. 6:14-15 KJV).

So people may think they follow Christ and are a child of God, yet if they continually revile and speak evil of those whom they think have wronged them, and if they continually seek revenge in a "pound of flesh" (and a quart of blood to boot) so to speak, then they have not learned to forgive. And if these people who bear such hate refuse to forgive, then Christ will not forgive them their trespasses. And those whom Christ will not forgive are indeed very much lost.

So I would encourage people to spend far less time focusing on the self and demanding satisfaction and far more time practicing forgiveness.

crump said:

"Regardless of what others do to us as Christians, no matter how much we feel that others have wronged us, Christ has stipulated that we are to forgive those who wrong us. Even Christ's model prayer now known as the Lord's Prayer contains the example that we are to ask God to forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.

After Christ taught His disciples how to pray, He further emphasized forgiving others with the words, "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matt. 6:14-15 KJV).

So people may think they follow Christ and are a child of God, yet if they continually revile and speak evil of those whom they think have wronged them, and if they continually seek revenge in a "pound of flesh" (and a quart of blood to boot) so to speak, then they have not learned to forgive. And if these people who bear such hate refuse to forgive, then Christ will not forgive them their trespasses. And those whom Christ will not forgive are indeed very much lost.

So I would encourage people to spend far less time focusing on the self and demanding satisfaction and far more time practicing forgiveness."


**************


For all you know, this wrong behavior by CMer's has been forgiven 70x7. That we ask that the behavior stop does not indicate otherwise. But I thank you for acknowledging that the behavior by the CMer's has been wrong.

You know, crump, Scripture does not tell you to do wrong to others so that you can point out how unforgiving they are. I think that behavior is more in line with that of the Pharisees. It's a trap. And those who set religious traps ARE Pharisees.

F/S members have asked little of CMer's: to be people of integrity. I guess the task has been too great for all of you, as you have not changed your behavior one iota, and continue doing the same wrong things.


Please, CMer's, for the love of God, stop this ungodly behavior.

It's strange that those who claim to have forgiven "70 times 7" still revile and speak evil of those who have allegedly done wrong. If one continues to speak evil, then one has not truly forgiven. To forgive means that the slate has been wiped clean.

When Jesus taught about forgiving, He implied by "70 times 7" that we are to forgive someone each and every time s/he does us wrong, no matter how many times that person continues to do that wrong.

We can politely request that people practice "integrity," but if that integrity is not forthcoming, do we then toss forgiveness to the wind and continue to speak evil of those who do us wrong and continue to seek revenge? That's not what Jesus commanded at all. We are not accountable for the behavior of other Christians (unless we initially incite or participate in such behavior), but we are accountable for our own behavior toward other Christians.

Therefore, we manifest Christ-like behavior not only by forgiving those who trespass against us as many times as necessary, but we also forever cease reviling and speaking evil of those who wrong us. But if we prefer instead to revile those who wrong us, we become numbered among the "unrighteous" as listed in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 (KJV), who will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Jesus never said that Christianity was fair.

"...we are accountable for our own behavior toward other Christians."


Indeed. That is exactly the point. Now if you would just behave accordingly...

And if those who claim to have forgiven would cease reviling and speaking evil of the forgiven...But then maybe those who claim to have forgiven really never have learned to forgive...

"Dr. Bill Crump
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66.217.166.177
Re: Those Who Forgive Cease Reviling the Forgiven
November 5 2006, 11:35 PM

And if those who claim to have forgiven would cease reviling and speaking evil of the forgiven...But then maybe those who claim to have forgiven really never have learned to forgive..."




No place in scripture does it say to behave rightly IF someone else behaves rightly first.



"...reviling and speaking evil of the forgiven....." Are you referring to yourselves here???

I am not convinced that you and your badly behaving buddies belong to "the forgiven." Your behavior certainly speaks otherwise, and the entire world can read it for themselves.


Stop reviling and speaking evil of us - for no other reason than it is the right, godly, Christ-like thing to do. Remove the twisted and harm-intentioned posts. Do the right thing because you are Whose you claim to be.

Or don't, and prove to the world Whose you aren't.

Doctor talking about integrity?? That is the best joke I've heard this year!

The truly best joke is that after behaving the way he has, Tom still expects people to take him seriously on this site. Go home to your liberal buddies at FS, Tom, and eat your Corvus. Have a little "Mephitis on the side.

Doctor, I am glad for our responses above to speak for themselves. Integrity in life is an important characteristic.

People can have worlds of integrity, but it avails them nothing if they can't or won't learn to forgive those who wrong them. And don't assume that to have integrity is to have a forgiving nature. That's also like assuming if one does good works, then one is a Christian. There are plenty of people around who do good works, yet they are the biggest atheists on the planet.

Now I believe that a big dinner of Corvus awaits Tom back at FaithSite.

Jimmy,

Your post does not make sense. Where is the part where the elder who got "run off" showed affection to v-jo? This is the man who caused v-jo's tears of joy to turn to tears of anger. There was never any affection between that man and v-jo. At least not according to her posts.

Oh, and I see you are still violating FS rules with your copying and pasting.

One more thing. Where's your apology to me for lying about me?

As you can see, I've not been banned. Why did you say that I was?

Rick

I also thought that Ken said that he was trying to "restart" or "rebuild" something?

First, the elder fired V-Jo and now she is plucking chickens. She may be a fine person but she has no business in the church of Christ.

Then, the ekder was chased away?

Now, how many others left?

All of V-jo's mentors chase away the OLD people so they can take captive the next generation (Post Bible, post-Christendom) already terminally brain and soul damaged with music: that's ok since my take on Revelation and the LOCUSTS (Satan's musicians) is that they CHASE AWAY those marked in the SPIRIT and hold those who fall for the Siren's song captive as the "beast" people so they can be left behind.

I thought Ken was a real name and Uniion Street Church of Christ was a fact?

All of this would just be silly chicken plucking except for the PRESENCE of the faith-based web page dedicated to ANYTHING but the Bible "as it has been written." Shouldn't someone tell those faithful churches of Christ that they are "tainted" by endorsing the site?

Everyone poured hate crimes (faith based) on lots of people quoting more than proof-text lies for the PURPOSE of letting Max and the chicks get back to counting fuz particles in their belly buttons: now, it has experienced a hostile takeover of the Calvinists who repudiate that which is required to be a "level one Christian" and the pro-instrumentalists wearing the mask of the church of Christ with the REQUIRED "infiltrate and divert" tactics.

Where did all of the "desperate housewives go?" Not to worry: I doubt that more than a dozen people read it anymore. I think that even the old Chaty Cathies cannot tolerate the base character anymore.

Piney. WHY did you have to go and join jimmy and donnie's smear campaign. You guys should be in politics. You sure know how to slander and lie. (Remind your cohorts in crime that copy/paste of posts from the internet w/o permission IS illegal.)

I'm going to take your post point-by-point. Your comments are in quotations.


"That a fact.
October 31 2006, 10:10 AM

I also thought that Ken said that he was trying to "restart" or "rebuild" something?"

What does that have to do with anything?? Nothing, that's what.


"First, the elder fired V-Jo and now she is plucking chickens. She may be a fine person but she has no business in the church of Christ."

This was only in your own mind. This elder did not "fire" me, nor anyone else that I know. Period. And I am still "in the church of Christ". Always will be. None of you can take that away from me.


"Then, the ekder was chased away?"

No, he left of his own free will. Forming it as a question so it doesn't appear to be a lie is still a lie.


"Now, how many others left?"

Who said ANY others left?


"All of V-jo's mentors chase away the OLD people so they can take captive the next generation (Post Bible, post-Christendom) already terminally brain and soul damaged with music: that's ok since my take on Revelation and the LOCUSTS (Satan's musicians) is that they CHASE AWAY those marked in the SPIRIT and hold those who fall for the Siren's song captive as the "beast" people so they can be left behind."

This, too, is another lie in your own warped mind, Piney-hiney. I NEVER chase(d) away older members. As a matter of fact, the avg. age where I am is way older than me - and I am n my 50's. It seems our ministry has been that of embracing the older ones, and sending them Home. Don't ever again say such a thing again.


"I thought Ken was a real name and Uniion Street Church of Christ was a fact?"

Goes to show you don't know as much as you think you do.


"All of this would just be silly chicken plucking except for the PRESENCE of the faith-based web page dedicated to ANYTHING but the Bible "as it has been written." Shouldn't someone tell those faithful churches of Christ that they are "tainted" by endorsing the site?"

AMEN to that. This site definitely taints!


"Everyone poured hate crimes (faith based) on lots of people quoting more than proof-text lies for the PURPOSE of letting Max and the chicks get back to counting fuz particles in their belly buttons: now, it has experienced a hostile takeover of the Calvinists who repudiate that which is required to be a "level one Christian" and the pro-instrumentalists wearing the mask of the church of Christ with the REQUIRED "infiltrate and divert" tactics.""

ANd how is that different from THIS site? Same tactics, different names, or 'None, that I can see.'


"Where did all of the "desperate housewives go?" Not to worry: I doubt that more than a dozen people read it anymore."

I bet you watch that stupid show, don't you? I doubt that this site gets more than a dozen genuine readers, either. In fact, I suspect that most of the hits are from you, donnie, jimmy, and crump. Oh, and those who are keeping legal-eagle eyes on you all.


"I think that even the old Chaty Cathies cannot tolerate the base character anymore."

Same for this site, Piney. Been nice "chating" with you again.



Slander is a crime. Punishable by law.

There is NO evidence taken in context and letting the BIBLE SPEAK which hints at "original sin" which MUST begin at Eternity past raised to the Eternity power. Psalms 58 is firtly poetic often pronouncing PERSONAL judgment against PERSONAL affronts. Secondly, having them GO ASTRAY after they are born is too late.

If your still wet infant BEGINS LYING from the womb then, according to Calvinists, they were PREDESTINATED to lie while still wet. The judgment of God in this chapter is that you PROBABLY should have aborted them. Unless you know of someone who began lying the instant its head poked out--before it began to breath if you are a literalist--then you HAVE to believe that there ARE NO WICKED PEOPLE and therefore everyone will be saved and the Psalmists was just incensing too many poppy seed. When a mother decides to get a 3 year old SAVED she must have decided that she had a bad seed on her hands.

DO ye indeed SPEAK righteousness, O CONGREGATION? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men? Psalm 58: 1

Yea, IN heart ye WORK wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth. Psalm 58:2

How was I to know that kid was predestinated to hell: I didn't know that all of that wailing in the middle of the night was SPEAKING LIES.

The wicked are ESTRANGED from the womb: they GO astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Psalm 58: 3

Won't work for calvinists: they are not PREDESTINATED "estranged" from the Womb and neither do they begin SPEAKING lies until much later when they let their fingers do the lying on a computer. The term "from my Mother's womb" speaks of all who are born and then GO FORTH or wander into becoming flat liars. If lying is proof of predestination then we know SEVERAL who cannot quit lying: they lie awake thinking up lies. God wants someone to sprinkle salt on the SLUGS so they melt like water.

Estranged is the Greek which is a "sound-alike" to the SINGERS who were wandering prostitutes.

Zuwr 02114 To TURN aside, DEPART (Arab). Go GO APART from truth and righteousness WHEN they, going forth from the womb BECOME estranged. You cannot "estrange" from something you never knew. That is why there was no IMPUTED sin sin there was no LAW to deliberately violate.

1) to be strange, be a stranger
a) (Qal)
1) to become estranged
2) strange, another, stranger, foreigner, an enemy (participle)
3) loathsome (of breath) (participle)
4) strange woman, prostitute, harlot (meton)
b) (Niphal) to be estranged
c) (Hophal) to be a stranger, be one alienated<>

Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear; Psalm 58: 4

HERE IS PROOF THAT YOUR NEWBORN IS ACTUALLY SATAN:

Nachash (h5175) naw-khawsh'; from 5172; a snake (from its hiss): - serpent.

The "serpent" who spoke to Eve used human language and was once upright or spiritual. The serpent is defined by the hissing or incantation of the soothsayer or enchanter.

Nachash (h5173) nakh'-ash; from 5172; an incantation or augury: - enchantment.

"ENCHANTER - a male psychic who specializes in the skill of influencing people for good or evil by creating a thought atmosphere around his subject by a technique using songs, chants or rhythmic sounds. [cf. ENCHANT, THOUGHT ATMOSPHERE].

Nachash (h5172) naw-khash'; a prim. root; prop. to hiss, i. e. whisper a (magic) spell; gen. to prognosticate: - * certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) * enchantment, learn by experience, * indeed, diligently observe.

Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely. Psalm 58: 5

I have observed that the generation of VIPERS were RACE of vipers who came forth from SATAN because Cain was OF that wicked one: Cain is from a musical note or MARK. The CROOKED generation are the Vineyard or New Wineskin "skolion" singers who hiss and twist about during performance.

Augustine decided NOT to take on the question of why people are predisposed by nature to be wicked AFTER they are born. God did not PREDESTINATE Jacob and Esau but knew while they were IN THE WOMB the nature of each boy: Esay was not suited to be the important patriarch. The nature of Esau was proven when he married into the Canaanite or VIPER people of cursed Canaan.

"The serpent-charmers usual instrument is the flute. Those who professed the art of taming serpents were called by the Hebrews menachashim, while the art itself was called lachash , (Jer 8:17; Ecc 10:11)" Smith's Dictionary, Serpent.

That is why Paul likened the singing in Corinth to LIFELESS INSTRUMENTS and to SPEAKING in tongues where the "instruments" were the "weapons of the witches."

Lachash (h3908) lakh'-ash; from 3907; prop. a whisper, i. e. by impl. (in a good sense) a private prayer, (in a bad one) an incantation; concr. an amulet: - charmed, earring, enchantment, orator, prayer.

The sick singing in the "holy places" is proven to b ethe SORCERERS of John's vision for the end-time church. Even in the carnal TYPES of Jerusalem or that of Jezebel, singers would be smashed in the teeth and cast into HELL as the garbage heap.

In Revelation 18 John identified these who were estranged by Satan or Lucifer or Zoe "the singing and harp playing prostitute" as SORCERERS and the sOPHISts are the "serpents" whose speach fulfilles the HYPOCRITE role along with the musical performers. God did not CREATE them this way but the WENT away or EStranged once they were OUT of the womb because of their genetic nature which is determined by GOD because He defined the laws of Genetics. That proves that God did not predestinate them to GO astray.

Now, the way to STOP a viper or lion or WOLF is to pray (direct command)

Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O Lord. Psalm 58: 6

The serpents, lions, wolves and dogs were identified as "musical perverters" in the garden and in Greek religionism: Paul warned that many elders would TURN out to be WOLVES and that is why they are ready to steal the church house of widows and to rob you with "the law of tithes and offerings" lusting to hire their favorite to "stand in the holy places" -- just in time.

Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces. Psalm 58: 7

As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun. Psalm 58: 8

Before your pots can feel the thorns, he shall take them away as with a whirlwind, both living, and in his wrath. Psalm 58: 9

Slice EVIL TIMMY into small pieces and wash your feet in his blood: Hay, that would be mild compared to God gonna burn that 8 pound bundle of adultery for ever and ever, Amen.

The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked. Psalm 58: 10

So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth. Psalm 58: 11

Not much blood in a ferterlized egg!

IF YOU HAVE A SUDDEN DEATH THEN UNDERSTAND THAT GOD OFTEN PUNISHES PEOPLE WITH WHAT THEY WISH ON OTHERS. Agrippa build his SEEKER CENTER and accepted the worship of others and GOD gave him HELL of the maggots WHILE is still living: Isaiah 30 proves that God is beating people to the MUSIC GROVE to burn up to the beat of String, Wind and Percussion instruments: when you hear the real or virtual TRUMPET or SHAKING then know that Hebrews 12 is being fulfilled because "God is STILL a consuming fire" for those who REFUSE to bow before Him in reverence and holy fear: you KNOW who you are.

Again, we say that POEMS are POETIC and express the judgment of the poet. Like the poet, you should put the blame on the WICKED.

I am sorry bout that: I know nothing about anonymous writers and churches: that is why only people who will post their names should be able to bad mouth.

I was checking if your feathers are still smooth and alive. I am certain that I read Ken to speak about rebuilding? Ken should respond to Jimmy. Ken normally has some Biblical response to the issues.

I noticed that you told that honorable RC student to just go away so I hope that you have the honor to see exactly what the people who get visions and hear voices are trying to EMERGE as the one true church. Like all of the hireling-changelings, I believe these people are delusional and assuredly neither Christian in teaching what Christ taught and KNOWING a crucified servant rather than fooling the fools by shouting the mantra about just PREACHING Jesus personally. Most of the religionists of the world secretly MOCK those who can be fleeced so easily. Lucian of Samosota, used in as proof to steal a church in Seattle laughs: "Just spin a top and blow the flute and you can fleece the simpletons and fatheads."

This "knowing personally" always had a sexual meaning: I know my wife but NOT Jesus. All pagans sought to ASCEND TO THE GODHEAD but the SANE world knew that they were driving themselves MAD by speaking, singing, dancing and gulping from the boasted of "new wineskin." They claimed the profession of SORCERY and John agreed. Because the literate knew that they were creating a mental disconnect from reality FOR MONEY, the word PARASITE had the same meaning: PLAY the parasite, PLAY the harp, PLAY as in 'rising up to play' at Mount Sinai which is never the CAUSE but the MARK of people who have betrayed the "Covenant of Grace vow" they just made.

They deliberately lie about Paul who said that he had decided to KNOW only a crucified Christ: that means to GO OUT as a suffering and dying servant to suffer reproaches IF they follow in the steps of Jesus and Paul.

I prophecy a chicken thief coming to your farm: YOU protest that he has no right to steal your chickens. He, using a V-joism responds, "If you don't like chicken thieves taking your chickens then you should 'JUST GET OVER IT' and go grow some more chickens. Can't see that,huh?

I have updated my MISSIONAL thesis being taught at Rochester. This could only come out of brains who have REPUDIATED the Bible as the ONLY TEACHING RESOURCE for the Christian community. You can call yourself a Christian and deny the "book" but by definition you CANNOT be a Christian. The church is a product of the Bible record and ALL groups claim that the Bible is their only authority for faith and practice within CHRISTIANITY. So, your friends just lie about EVER issue. If they do not believe the Bible then there is a NO FAULT POLICY: they can get honorable occupations. However, if they wear the CHRISTIAN logo and deny the BOOK then they are NOT honorable. By definition they are ANTI-Christian by claiming that THEY now have the authority to do what Jesus FAILED to do. Sure, Rubel Shelly and John York CLAIM that the "spirit" could not fit all of Jesus' words into the Bible: not to worry, WE are now hearing those lost words.

http://www.piney.com/Geni.Adepts.html

I am cleaning up some data on the Emergent Church. I hope you have Read Fred Peatross' A Spectacle of Worship? Sounds like a spin-off from witchcraft and that fits the PATTERNISM of John in Revelation 18 where "speakers, singers, musicians and all religious craftpeople" are called SORCERERS.

By quoting Isaiah which is repeated in Ezekiel, Jesus identified the MOUTH RELIGIONISTS of "speakers, singers and musicians" as Hypocrites. The Greek literature identify these FALSE PERFORMANCE people as the PRIMARY meaning of HYPOCRITE. The word also includes those who sing and play instruments. A HYPOCRITE is not someone who is NOT PERFECT but a HYPOCRITE speaks ONLY in a true sense of those engaged in the PERFORMING ARTS. The word DEMAGOGUE is defined as one who uses the PERFORMING ARTS to appease crowd. When you TRY it on a holy God then you blaspheme the SPIRIT Who is "Jesus Christ the Righteous" by mocking HIS WORDS. Jesus never taught JUST JESUS and neither did Paul. Those who make a profession out of it are what Peter called the CROOKED generation (race) which points to the new wineskin SKOLION SINGERS performing "church" as the HOLY TAVERN. John called them a generation of VIPERS and refused to BAPTIZE THEM. Jesus identified them to the playing children of the Agora or marketplace who PIPED to make people dance: the children were the "chorus leaders" used by the CLERGY where ALL plucking harps identify the pederast. Zoe tries to refute the Platonic Fallacy but only fools are fooled: that is their profession.

You have NO OTHER MARK on the forehead (mind) and hand (works) of the BEAST than DENYING the Words of Jesus Christ which is an UNFORGIVEABLE SIN (Hebrews 6). Peter used the mouth to mouth revelation validated by MIRACLES proving that his "remembrance" would be true: those who "further expound" it or fail to teach that which is revealed are FALSE TEACHER. I fail to see how literate people can fail to separate the MANY seed of the serpent from the TINY FEW seed of Jesus Christ.

If you deny that the Bible should be spoken with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH beacause "you are competent to teach one another" and claim the need for someone with SPIRITUAL STANDING then you deny Jesus Christ as the Mediator-Intercessor. Again, only a teeny, weeny, "drop of good juice out of one rotten grape from one cried up cluster from one dead vine in the VINEYARD which the clergy turned over to the BEASTS (personification) by the use of wine, women and music (Isaiah 5). So, if you are part of a MASS MOVEMENT then Hitler, Willow Creek, Purpose-Driven etal all they YOU are the "human material" being used and abused by the "intellectual leaders."

"Shall He find faith when He returns?" NO, almost none and they will be OUTSIDE the camps or gatherings suffering reproaches FROM those inside the CAMPS.

Luther, Calvin and everyone believes that mankind is helpless to save themselves. However, the concept of SOLA FIDE is used to lie about all known history. That is why God Himself came in human flesh to speak MOUTH TO MOUTH to the Apostles just as He spoke before th Moses. Peter said that Jesus left us an EXAMPLE which we should follow: that word means a WRITTEN EXAMPLE. Just as the Spirit of Christ moved the Prophets the same Spirit moved the Apostles to write us a REMEMBRANCE

Peter made it clear that the PURPOSE was to instruct mankind in ALL THAT PERTAINS TO LIFE AND GODLINESS. Furthermore the importance of this WRITTEN EXAMPLE is that it becomes a MARK to separate the rare true preacher from the MANY false preachers who pollute the Word by "selling it at retail" and "doctoring it." There is NO other way to separate the Godly seed from the SEED of the Vipers.

None of those using the word SOLA FIDE ever hallucinated the modern wacko view of those who LIE about Luther and Calvin. Zwingli INVENTED the concept which refuted the BAPTISMAL REGENRATION of the Cathlics who baptized WITHOUT FAITH. When they say BAPTISM DOES NOT SAVE they always add WITHOUT FAITH.

8. Thus you learn from the first utterance in today's Gospel that this knowledge must come from God the Father;
he must lay the first stone of the foundation in us, else we will never DO anything.

But this is accomplished in the following [400] way: God sends us preachers, whom he has taught, to preach to us his will.

First he instructs us that our entire lives and characters, however beautiful and holy they may be, are before him as nothing, yea, are as abomination, and displeasing; this is called a preaching of the Law.
Then he OFFERS us grace; that is, he tells us that he will not utterly condemn and reject us, but will receive us in his beloved Son, and not merely receive us, but make us heirs of his kingdom, lords over all that is in heaven and upon earth. This is called preaching GRACE or preaching the Gospel.

But God is the origin of all; he first awakens preachers and constrains them to preach.

This is the meaning of St. Paul's words when he says to the Romans: "So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17).

This truth the words of the Lord in today's Gospel also declares, when Christ says:

"It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one that hath heard from the Father, and hath learned, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he

9. Now, under the first preaching, the preaching of the Law, namely, that we with all our works are condemned, man is restless and fearful before God, and knows not what to do with his life and deeds. He suffers from an accusing and timid conscience, and if relief from some source were not to come quickly he would have to despair forever.

Therefore, we must not long delay with the other preaching; we must preach the Gospel to him and lead him to Christ as the one whom the Father has given to us to be our mediator,

that we should be saved SOLEY through him, out of pure grace and mercy, WITHOUT any works or MERIT on our part.

The heart rejoices at this word and runs to such grace as a thirsty deer to the water. This longing David keenly experiences when he says in

Ps. 42:1-2: "As the heart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God, my soul thirsteth for God, for the living God."

10. Now, when one comes to Christ, that is, to his Gospel, he hears the personal voice of Christ the Lord which confirms the knowledge God taught him, namely, that God is nothing [401] but a very gracious Saviour, who wants to be gracious and merciful to all who call upon him.Therefore, the Lord adds:

"Verily verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread that cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

I am the living bread that came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world."

11. In these words the soul finds a well prepared table, at which it satisfies all hunger; for it knows for a certainty that he who speaks these words cannot lie.

Therefore the soul falls upon the Word, clings to it, trusts in it, and also builds its dwelling-place in the strength of this well-prepared table.

This is the feast for which the heavenly Father slayed his oxen and fatlings and invited us all to it.

Because Jesus said my WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE, when we have the WORD and TRUST IT we have SOLA FIDE which also means SOLA SCRIPTURA because we only know that Scripture reveals to us. The Word of Christ is the SEED: when it is planted and germinates then assuredly life begins "at conception." However, Luther will insist that one must be BORN of Water before they can have their sins or BLOOD washed off by baptism which he declares is when GOD HIMSELF BAPTIZES us. Peter said that we receive A holy spirit at baptism and when our "bodies are washed with water" then God "sprinkles our heart FROM uncleanness."

To Luther Sola Fide came only from SOLA SCRIPTURA when the gospel is preached. Because the SOLA SCRIPTURA insists on the necessity of baptism, this meant SOLA BAPTISMA before sins were remitted and the conception became a BIRTH. Jesus spoke of MANY ways in which a SEED might spring into LIFE but that did not guaranteed that the seed of Corn became a Stalk bering Corn. The burried seed must ARISE from the Ground to begin a new LIFE in the effective sense.

More on Sola Fide for the starvingling. Churches of Christ believe that GOD does the work so don't TRUST people who do not have the truth living in them. Those who do not teach the Word AS IT HAS BEEN TAUGHT are simply hirelings and a crooked and perverse generation.

V-jo, you made the claim that elder/preacher/Ken, alas unionstcoc, did not run your old trouble maker and elder friend off from the Union Street Church Christ. You said it is not the Union Street Christ of Christ that you had your problems at. What other Church of Christ is in that town?

"Hello Lord. It's me Bob!" Why does that make you cry?

In Christ,
Jimmy

for proving my point:

"If not Uninon Street Church of Christ???
November 6 2006, 11:29 AM

V-jo, you made the claim that elder/preacher/Ken, alas unionstcoc, did not run your old trouble maker and elder friend off from the Union Street Church Christ. You said it is not the Union Street Christ of Christ that you had your problems at. What other Church of Christ is in that town?

"Hello Lord. It's me Bob!" Why does that make you cry?

In Christ,
Jimmy"



I wouldn't give you the location of that church for all the gold in China. That would be leading the wolves to the lambs, and handing them over on a silver platter. No way. I will do all I can to protect that group of precious people from harm that you will do them.

And the rest is none of your business. The post was not addressed to you.

Why don't you and your CM buddies try doing something kind today.

You are wolves here. Wolves working for Satan, not God.

Even though posts may be addressed to certain people, since this is an open forum, anyone has the right to respond.

And people who not only refuse to forgive those who have allegedly wronged them but who also persist in reviling and speaking evil of them indeed labor for Satan, not God:

Christians forgive those who wrong them.

Once Christians have truly forgiven, they no longer have the desire to revile and speak evil of the forgiven.

Non-Christians and rebellious Christians not only refuse to forgive but also persist in reviling others. They put their souls in double jeopardy.

Jesus will not forgive the unforgiving (Matt. 6:14-15 KJV), neither will revilers inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-10 KJV).

I see a lot of posts about forgiving and certainly true. But if one is wronged and the other does not repent or admit wrongdoing, then forgiveness may not be called for.

Also, if someone punches me in the stomach and then says "I am sorry", I will forgive him, but I am gonna keep my arms ready to block his next punch. Forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting it and it certainly does not mean that one must now TRUST the wrongdoer. The fact is, if someone has willfully wronged one, chances are he will do so again.

So if someone wronge me and says "sorry" I will indeed forgive him and not hold a grudge, but I will not trust him until he has proven trustworthy.

Jesus never said anything about trusting or not trusting those who wrong us. Trust has nothing to do with the ability to forgive. Jesus simply said that we are to forgive those who wrong us each and every time a wrong occurs. The further implication is that we are to forgive, even if we are very sure that the same person(s) will wrong us again and again. Yet we obviously can't second-guess people. But we are to trust Jesus at His Word, do as He commands, and forgive wrong-doers. No need to complicate something that is quite simple.

So if we neither hold a grudge nor demand revenge after saying that we "forgive" those who wrong us, then there really is no further reason at all to keep the incidents of wrong-doing in our minds. Therefore, we should live up to the old adage "Forgive and forget," for it is a most healthy adage. Keeping memories of wrongs in our minds and continuing to revile the wrong-doers after we've supposedly "forgiven" them are sure signs of smoldering hatred, hatred that should have died at the time that we forgave someone, if we truly forgave them.