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You HAVE been taken CAPTIVE: Please some PhDuh Refute?

September 23 2006 at 7:45 PM
Ken Sublett  (no login)
from IP address 69.19.14.43

This is my WITNESS which your captors CANNOT refute, that if you are engaging in any kind of "spiritual arousal" by jesting, rhetorical speakers, singers, clappers or players of instruments YOU have fallen and I don't expect you to EVER get up if all of the literature has any meaning. Just the same, I have to warn you that if your building has CHURCH on it you probably are in more of a "synagogue of Satan." Sure: not even Judas knew that he was indwelled when Jesus hand ground the SOP from which we get PSALLO or melody which IS NOT a music word. I would anticipate that Satan would mobilize His SEED to take over the pulpits in order as Jesus said of the doctors of the Law, to TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE. That is the MARK of music throughout the Bible.

For ALL churches which use any kind of "music" to control people long enough to pick the pockets of widows and honest workers, DAVID is YOUR saviour chosen over the Spiritual David.
    David is the negative model of dominant clergy when they turn away from God and His Words. Don't ever worship the cross: it was a phallic symbol.
Therefore, you should eat, drink and make Mary because you have been taken captive and God is DRUMMING you into the place of buring with music (Isaiah 30LXX). "Leading" PhDuhs are teaching the Lord's Supper as a Jubilating sacrificial meal where God eats while we burn the fat. Others are mocking the literates for NOT using the Old Testament along with the New Testament as authority for faith and practice. They HALLUCINATE that churches of Christ invented "dispensational distinctions" but ALL scholars have always grasped that before these END TIMES when the GOYIM or NATIONAL worship of Babylon has been added as a CURSE all over again.

I would suggest that you have the musicators go NAKED as the way to ROB more seekers!

You must REMEMBER that David was chosen to help carry out the captivity and death penalty imposed because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and which became "beyond redemption" when the elders demanded a SLICK PREACHER just like all of the other nations. God gave David a Jebusite High Place which is identified with Hagar, Egypt, Mount Sinai and Sodom.

The MONARCHY is symbolic (Jesus Matt 13) along with all of the stories: they are a historical record mostly of what NOT to do. However, in the end time the PLANET OF THE APES has come true and we have procured us some PhDuhs to show us how to worship the Atomic Bomb.

2 Sam 6:5 And David and all the house of Israel PLAYED before the Lord
    on all manner of instruments made of fir wood,
    even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels,
    and on cornets, and on cymbals.
This is identical to the SPORTING they forced on Samson where his GRINDING did not mean "grinding wheat" but serving as a concubine. This is identical to the RISING UP to play at Mount Sinai in perverted, musical idolatry of the TRINITY.

Don't tell any literate Bible student that God does not warn AGAINST this for the Church: there are numerous examples and Paul and Peter use Greek equivalent words to DIRECTLY COMMAND the church not to AROUSE or PLAY or SPORT during "Bible class."

The word PLAY was confessed by David to MAKE SELF VILE and he did it to be honored by the CAMP FOLLOWER GIRLS:
    Lu-do to sport, to play on an instrument of music, to make or compose music or song:

    B. To sport, dally, wanton (cf. "amorous play,"


    Jesus identified the SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES by pointing to Isaiah and Ezekiel who speak of the same "love" songs, speaking and talented instruments.

    Ov. A. A. 2, 389 Ovid's Art of Love: Book II.....Latin

    Or when she combs or when she curls her hair,
    Commend her curious art and gallant air.
    Singing, her voice, dancing, her steps, admire;
    Applaud when she desists, and still desire.

    Let all her words and actions wonder raise;
    View her with raptures, and with raptures praise
    Fierce as Medusa though your mistress prove,
    These arts will teach the stubborn beauty love.

    Be cautious lest you overact your part,
    And temper your HYPOCRISY with ART;
    Let no false action give your words the lie,
    For once deceiv'd, she's ever after shy.


    Ludo continued: C. Ludere aliquem or aliquid, to play, mock, imitate, to imitate work, make believe work, [PARASITES]
The local ekklesia has no ROLES for preaching or music or other "staff infection." Therefore, the FOOLS who love to be fooled fall for the MAKE BELIEVE WORK. Paul and early history says "if they will not WORK neither shall they EAT." A PARASITE is one who produces no products.

Peter outlaws the similar PLEASING Paul outlawed for the synagogue in Romans 15:
    2 Pet 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    2 Peter 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their OWN deceivings while they FEAST with you;
    [all singers and musicians were called PARASITES]

    The same Peter said that one CORRUPTS the word when they "sell learning retail" or "hawk it all about" as the PRETEND work of the preachers seminars. Ezekiel said the false prophets and prophetesses go to these workshops to "steal words one from another."

    Sporting is Entrupo (g1792) en-troo-fah'-o; from 1722 and 5171; to revel in: - sporting selves.

    Truphaô, ( [truphê] ) A. live SOFTLY, luxuriously, fare sumptuously, Paison, truphêson, zêson: [Points to ZOE]

      Paison paizô [pais]
      4. to play (on an instrument), . II. to sport, play, jest, joke, to make sport of one, mock him, dance and sing,

      THE ZOE MARK FOR THE LITERATE.

      Zêson zaô I. to live, Hom., etc.; elenchiste zôontôn vilest of living men, rheia zôontes living at ease, of the gods, id=Il.; zôn katakauthênai to be BURNTALIVE alive, Hdt.:--also, zên apo tinos to live off or on a thing,

      Zôê A. living, i.e. one's substance, property, to get one's living by Hdt.8.105

      Zoe is also Rheia rhaidios theoi rheia zôontes the gods who live at ease, kitharis kai aoidê, rheia lightly, pleasantly,

    Truphaeo en tais ekklêsiais t. kai kolakeuestha [DOING IT IN CHURCH]


    Similar Greek which they TRIED on Jesus and he called them CHILDREN playing in the Agora where perverted worship took place.

    Huporcheomai , External HEART attack.
    A. dance with or to music, pros de kardiai phobos aidein goous sing and dance a lament, Hld.6.8.
    II. sing and dance a character, of a pantomimic actor, Luc.Salt.16.

      Phobos Phobos is personified as son of Ares ABADDON.
      II. panic fear, such as causes flight

    The FEAR is caused by SINGING which SATAN sells as "spiritual."

    Aeidô of other sounds, twang, of the bow-string, Od.21.411; whistle, of the wind through a tree, Mosch.Fr.1.8; ring, of a stone when struck, Theoc.7.26:--prov., prin nenikêkenai aidein 'to crow too soon',
Back to David: David was wearing the Ephod which was a feminine garment for the priesthood which was like ALL national priesthoods and NOT an approved PATTERNISM. No one doubts that he WENT NAKED. Other words define the naked PLAY:
    Nu-do I. to make naked or bare; to strip, bare, lay bare, expose to view, uncover (syn.: exuo, detego, revelo).

    Scurra, ae, m. 1. A city buffoon, droll, JESTER (usually in the suite of wealthy persons, and accordingly a kind of PARASITE; syn.: -Of the clown in a pantomime, Juv. 13, sannio, parasitus) urbani assidui cives, venustissimus, rhetores

    Delicatus I. That gives pleasure, i. e. alluring, charming, delightful; luxurious, voluptuous.

    B. Transf., SOFT, tender, delicate (poet. and in post-Aug. prose): CAPELLA [She Goat], Cat. 20, 10 ; II. Addicted to pleasure; luxurious, voluptuous; and subst., a voluptuary, a wanton.

    Judges 6. [20] Then David returned to bless his household. Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel today, who uncovered himself today in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovers himself! [21] David said to Michal, [It was] before Yahweh, who chose me above your father, and above all his house, to appoint me prince over the people of Yahweh, over Israel: therefore will I play before Yahweh. [22] I will be yet more vile than this, and will be base in my own sight: but of the handmaids of whom you have spoken, of them shall I be had in honor.

      Sannio, o-nis, m. [sanna] ,
      I. one who makes mimicking grimaces, a buffoon (cf. scurra),

      Parasi-tus, i, m., = parasitos, lit. one who eats with another; hence, parasitus Phoebi, a player, actor [For APOLLO or Apollyon]

    II. In partic., in a bad sense, one who, by flattery and buffoonery, manages to live at another's expense, a sponger, toad-eater, parasite

2 Sam 6:13 And it was so, that when they that bare the ark of the Lord had gone six paces, he sacrificed oxen and fatlings.

2 Sam 6:14 And David danced before the Lord with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.


Of the Spiritual David, however, Paul said that He did not PLEASE HIMSELF or LIFT UP with mental anxiety:
    Isa 42:2 He shall NO cry, nor LIFT UP, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

    Greek: H6817 tsaaq tsaw-ak' A primitive root; to shriek; (by implication) to proclaim (an assembly): X at all, call together, cry (out), gather (selves) (together).

    Latin: Cla-mo, a-vi, a-tum, 1, v. n. and

    I. a. [Sanscr. kar-, to CELEBRATE; Gr. kaleô, klêtos; cf.: clarus, classis, nomenclator, CONCILIUM].

I HOPE SOMEONE WILL GRASP THAT THE PROPHECY WAS THAT JESUS WOULD NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE PAYING FOR! Paul OUTLAWED the same kind of DIALOGING assembly devoted to SELF PLEASING or CONCILIUM. This is IDENTICAL to the Community Churches or COMMUNES which plan to provide COMMUNITY to involve most of your life and FINANCES. Yes, the PLANET OF THE APES was a SUPERNATURAL REVELATION.
    Jesus replaced by the PREACHER The president was the archiereus, or sacerdos [priest]...

    Jesus won't go there: After the concilium had taken part in the religious festival, it met again for the conduct of business.

    Jesus won't go there: Its first duty was to pass the accounts of the expenditure connected with the provincial temple to Augustus, and to provide for the maintenance of the worship for the coming year;

    Jesus won't go there: but then it was entitled to criticise the conduct of the governor, and either vote thanks to him or lay a complaint before the emperor (cf. the Inscription of Torigny, edited by Mommsen), which was frequently followed by his accusation ( Epist. vii. 6).

    Jesus won't go there: In this manner some control was exercised over the governor, and there was some approach to the creation of a representative body.
The word PLEASE or ARESKOS outlaws any accomodation for people who have DIVERSE backgrounds because the object is not to CELEBRATE but to READ and DIALOG "That which is written" or "Scripture." Paul uses the word SPEAK in an external sense and there is NO MUSIC in the "school room" children!
    Clamo continued: -Of the CHIRIPING of a cricket: (CICADA) multo validius clamare occoepit, Phaedr. 3, 16, 7 .--Of the roaring of waters,
Jesus invites the TWOS and THREES to "come learn of me" beside STILL WATERS: Lambs WILL NOT drink from rushing waters and that is why SATAN uses the musical sounds to starve you to death for the WORD (Amos 5-8; Isaiah 5)

The cicada is the MUSICAL LOCUSTS which John uses to identify the singers and musicians as the MUSES which is the MARK of Apollyon worship. Welcome to the Planet of the Apes.
    Chirruping a humming, twanging, phormingôn [harp], chirruping of cicada, mere sound or twittering

      Teret-isma, A. a humming, twanging, phormingôn, a mere sound or twittering, teretismata ta eidê (the Platonic ideas)

    The Phorminx is ESPECIALLY the Instrument of APOLLO [Apollyon, Abaddon]. 2. ph. achordos, metaph. for a bow,

    Homer, Iliad 1. So he spoke, and the goddess, white-armed Hera, smiled, [595] and smiling took in her hand the cup from her son. Then he poured wine for all the other gods from left to right, drawing forth sweet nectar from the bowl. And unquenchable laughter arose among the blessed gods, as they saw Hephaestus puffing through the palace. [600] Thus the whole day long till the setting of the sun
      they feasted,
      nor did their heart lack anything of the equal feast,
      nor of the beauteous lyre, that Apollo held,
      nor yet of the Muses, who sang,
      replying
      one to the other with sweet voices.

    But when the bright light of the sun was set, [605] they went each to his own house to take their rest, where for each one a palace had been built with cunning skill by the famed Hephaestus, the limping god; and Zeus, the Olympian, lord of the lightning, went to his couch, where of old he took his rest, whenever sweet sleep came upon him. [610] There went he up and slept, and beside him lay Hera of the golden throne.

    Homer, Odyssey 17. And Odysseus and the goodly swineherd halted as they drew nigh,
      and about them rang the sound of the hollow lyre,
      for Phemius was striking the chords to sing before the wooers.

    Then Odysseus clasped the swineherd by the hand, and said: "Eumaeus, surely this is the beautiful house of Odysseus. [265] Easily might it be known, though seen among many. There is building upon building, and the court is built with wall and coping, and the double gates are well-fenced; no man may scorn it. And I mark that in the house itself many [270] men are feasting: for the savour of meat arises from it, and therewith resounds the voice of the lyre, which the gods have made the companion of the feast."

    The Fables of Phaedrus The Locusts or Grasshoppers of John's Revelation :

    Those who will not the forms obey
    To be obliging in their way,
    Must often punishment abide
    For their ill-nature, and their pride.

    A Grasshopper, in rank ill-will,
    Was very loud and very shrill
    Against a sapient Owl's repose,
    Who was compelled by day to doze

    The Owl perceiving no redress,
    And that her words were less and less
    Accounted of, no longer pray'd,
    But thus an artifice essay'd:

    "Since 'tis impossible to nod,
    While harping like the Delphian god, [Apollo]
    You charm our ears, stead of a nap,
    A batch of nectar will I tap,

    Which lately from Minerva came;
    Now if you do not scorn the same,
    Together let us bumpers ply."
    The Grasshopper, extremely dry,

    And, finding she had hit the key
    That gain'd applause, approach'd with glee;
    At which the Owl upon her flew,
    And quick the trembling vixen slew.

    Thus by her death she was adjudged
    To give what in her life she grudged.

Because you have the best hypocrites money can procure (speakers, singers, musicians) you UNDOUBTEDLY remember that the Abomination of Desolation was still favored among the "Jews" who were not Israelites and that included Dionysus worship with sex, perversion and music right there in the Holy Places." Therefore, they hoped that Messiah would be Dionysus so they tried to TRIUMPH OVER or force Jesus to BOW TO BAAL in the Dionysus "initiation" so that he would wail and dance while they PIPED. The MARK therefore of the end time Babylon Whore (Circe, church) is the singers and clappers: if you PAY then you are one of them.

2 Sam 6:15 So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the Lord with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.
    Ju-bilo, a-vi, a-tum, 1, v. n. and

    I. a. [jubilum], to shout, to raise a shout of joy: quiritare, jubilare, Varr. L. L. 6, § 68 Müll.: aliquem, to call out to a person: io buccol quis me jubilat? Poet. ib.: jubilate Deo,

This is the alarm or triumph over God outlawed for the "church in the wilderness] In the Greek, This is what Paul condemned in 1 Cor 13:
    Alal-azô, [Lord, Lord prophesying]

      Defining DAVID's dance: "The 'whirling dervishes' gyrate round their sheikh in a representation of the planets circling the sun... The dervishes whirl on their own axes and also in orbit, reciting inwardly the name of God: Alah, Alah, Alah. With closed eyes they whirl, to the music of flutes, drums and strings, seeking union with the divine, till they cease and return to stillness." (Parrinder, Geoffrey, Mysticism in the World's Religions, Oxford University , p. 131).

      "It was probably usual to welcome a king or general with music and dancing...The distinctly religious dance is more frequently mentioned. The clear instances of it in the Bible are the dance of the women of Israel at the Red Sea, headed by Miriam with her tambourine (Exodus 15:20); the dance of the Israelites round the golden calf (Exodus 32:19); the dance of the maidens of Shiloah at the annual feast (Judges 21:19 ff); the leaping or limping of the prophets of Baal round their altar on Carmel (1 Kings 18:26); and the dancing of David in front of the ark (2 Samuel 6:14-16) (Int. Std. Bible Ency., p. 1169-70)

      Thayer's Lexicon puts it, to go 'la-la'. The Greeks shouted 'alala' both in worship and in war, and personified Alala as a deity (Pindar, Fr. 208 [78]; Plutarch 2.3496). It was this same repetitive and meaningless syllabification in pagan prayers which Jesus described: 'for they think they shall be heard for their much speaking' (Matthew 6:7)


    A. (formed from the cry alalai): --raise the war-cry, NIKE alalazein shout the shout of victory, S.Ant.133. [NIKE over the LAITY: Nicolatains]

    2. generally, cry, shout aloud, in orgiastic rites, A.Fr.57; of Bacchus and Bacchae, [Dionysus]

    3. rarely of a cry of pain or grief, êlalaze dusthnêskôn phonhô E.El.843 , LXX Je.4.8, al., Ev.Marc. 5.38, Plu.Luc28.

This is where Jesus CAST OUT the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG because ALL musical minstrels were misleading you for CASH.
    II. rarely also of other sounds than the voice, sound loudly, psalmos d' alalazei A.Fr.57 ; kumbalon alalazon 1 Ep.Cor.13.1 .--Poet. word, used by X. and in late Prose.

    Quiri-to of an ORATOR, to scream, shriek out, cry aloud something

    Clangor, o-ris, m. [clango] , I. a sound, CLANG, noise (mostly poet. and in Aug. prose). I. Of wind instruments: tubarum,

Do YOU get the meaning of a JUBILEE? Or a Jubilating sacrificial meal with God?

I will post a link on my home page when I clean this up. I suggest you read this rather than mock: that is THE MARK. Yes, I know that I am not a Greek scholar so the scholars have to TRUMP all of the clear statements of Scripture before they can escape burning times for deliberately sowing discord: Peter identifes them as the beast people.

 
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AuthorReply
Nadab
(no login)
70.252.56.154

A Clean Sweep

September 24 2006, 5:25 PM 

You win the award for:
Most Boring Post
Most Irrelevant
Most Lies Stated In A Post
Longest Post
Lamest Post

Congratulations. Start working on 2007. I bet you can do even better!

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
66.217.162.93

Re: A Clean Sweep

September 25 2006, 9:36 AM 

We note that "Nadab" doesn't offer any definitive rebuttal, only insults and personal attacks. He who can only resort to insults and personal attacks has already lost the argument.

 
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Roger Bradley
(no login)
64.185.31.101

Actually....

September 25 2006, 10:23 AM 


I think what you mean good doctor, is:
He who resorts to unreasonably long and inaccurate posts that are boring and full of lies has already lost.

Nadab is right. That rhetoric is ridiculous. If someone has a point, make it. Or if it's extremely long, post a link. It's not good internet ettiquette to post things like Ken Sublett seems to do daily. Of course, from reading around on this site, etiquette doesn't seem to be much of a priority here.

If you are such a defender of his Dr. Crump, would you mind telling us:
A.) Do you read all of his super-long posts?
B.) Do you agree with them?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.19.66.68

Re: Actually....

September 25 2006, 5:20 PM 

Questioning me, attacking me, or riculing this site won't cancel the fact that "Nadab" doesn't offer anything sustantial to rebut Ken Sublett. If you think he is not telling the truth, then provide concrete evidence to the contrary and prove him wrong. That's the mature thing to do. If you consider some posts to be too long, no one is holding a gun to your head, for you always have the option not to read them. That's also the mature thing to do. The moderators here decide whether posts are appropriate or not.

 
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TMP
(no login)
66.199.28.132

So the question is...

September 26 2006, 9:55 AM 

Dr. Bill, you are right that we have the option of not reading Ken's post. In fact I believe any regular frequenter to this site skips Ken's posts. I know I do. I really don't think that Ken cares if anyone reads his posts, since complaints about him have surfaced for years and he continues to write long posts that don't seem to have any relevance to the topic at hand but somehow revolve around ancient mythology. So I do have a question...is there anyone who read Ken's posts on a regular basis? Dr. Bill? Donnie? anyone? If so, what do you gain from them? I am not being sarcastic or rude, but really want to know what you get out of them.

++++++++++++++++++++++

I must make a confession, and I hope I don't disappoint you too much. I know this is not the response you were expecting. But here goes it.

My confession is that I find Ken's posts extraordinary and scholarly and with much depth -- which may be a problem to shallow minds. I have learned many new things more from Ken's writings than from any of your favorite writers. I have also changed some of my "old" thinking as a result of Ken's excellent and unmatched researches and findings.

Donnie


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 70.149.147.221 on Sep 26, 2006 10:06 PM


 
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TMP
(no login)
68.52.148.35

Donnie, Humor me a little further...

September 27 2006, 12:39 AM 

I am not really surprised at your answer. In fact, I'm sorta glad you read and agree with his posts. Although I did find your shallow minds comment and jabs about my favorite authors a little petty. BTW the last book I read was a biography on Augustine...not particularly shallow, and quite scholarly if I say so myself. And no I don't hold any Bible degrees either.

I have two really big arguments with Ken. 1) He is always trying to pick a fight (PhDuh, constant sexual references...the cross is a phallic symbol, please...), and 2) He rambles, often copying and pasting from other places, instead of making clear succinct points. Case in point, I copied his previous post into Word and it ended up being 8 pages and 39 paragraphs. I actually did scan it and pretty much can sum it up in two sentences. The church is supposed to be an ekklesia (school of the Bible) without paid staff. If your church is anything else it is sexually perverted.

So here is where I want you to humor me Donnie by answering two questions. 1) Did you read Ken's previous post completely before myself or Nadab said anything? 2) If you disagree with my summary of Ken's post can you summarize it for shallow minds then? I am really interested in your answers and will keep it respectful. I don't like it any more when the "liberals" resort to cheap shots than the "conservatives."

Dr. Bill, you are more than welcome to answer my questions, but from our history I think I already know you will refuse. Ken, you are more than welcome to lambast me, but I'm really interested in seeing what your readers think.

 
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Roger Bradley
(no login)
64.185.31.101

Contradictions

September 26 2006, 10:35 AM 


Bill Crump,

I wonder why you didn't answer my questions:

If you are such a defender of his, Dr. Crump, would you mind telling us:
A.) Do you read all of his super-long posts?
B.) Do you agree with them?

Could it be that you agree with myself and Nadab (and from what I read on other threads- almost everyone else), that Ken Sublett tends to post things that are too long, don't make sense at best, and are untrue at worst??


Do I really need to post PROOF and EVIDENCE, that some of the junk he writes is just plain wrong????????? Take this for example:

"...the Bible is a condensed version of all of the wisdom of the world used by priests or magicians to try to relieve their own guilt by appeasing the "gods" meaning to to them "demons."

If you have an ounce of courage and honor Bill Crump, you write a post right now stating if you believe the above statement, written by Ken Sublett to be true.


I know that no one puts a gun to my head to read posts that are unreasonably long. Like I said, on internet bulletin boards, such as this, it is simply a matter of etiquette. And as I also said, I don't expect you to understand etiquette. You didn't.

After your tit-for-tat with the faithsite people about "eating crow", I find it amusing that you can with a straight face, even type the words: "That's the mature thing to do."

You seem to be concerned with people "personally attacking" others. In fact, you seem to be overly-paranoid about it. If you DO side with Sublett, I'm sure you will not have a double standard. I'm positive that you will publicly post a rebuke to him for referring to Nadab as Nablab.

I guess the bottom line is this Bill- Do you walk it, or just talk it?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(no login)
70.149.147.221

Re: Contradictions

September 27 2006, 12:51 AM 

Roger Bradley,

Just curious about the example of “just plain wrong” that you quoted from Ken — “...the Bible is a condensed version of all of the wisdom of the world….” Did you read the entire post(s) in order to find the error? Or, did you happen to notice “the error” at the beginning of the post and you stopped because: (1) either that you did not find any more errors [you thought] (2) or that you found everything else in error [you thought]? Is it possible that you took the statement out of context? It appears that way.

You know, I find it interesting that Nadab has identified himself in that manner—I haven’t researched this yet, but I wonder how many in this world have been named by their parents as “Nadab.” Or, “Abihu” … “Lucifer” … “Judas” … “Jezebel”? And now you feel that referring to Nadab as Nablab is a “personal attack”?

When I get a chance, I’ll post something that Nadab has submitted in the Madison Timeline thread. Nadab [Nablab] reminds me of another poster “Amazed”—who has a habit of copying entire segments or paragraphs from another poster and changing or adding certain phrases and expressions here and there, and claiming them as his own—a disgusting lack of originality or simply empty rhetoric or weak rebuttal. BTW, Nadab did just that.

I think “Nablab” is funny [sorry! ] but it is also appropriate in this instance.I think “Nablab” is funny [sorry! ] but it is also appropriate in this instance.

Donnie

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
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66.217.162.187

Re: Contradictions

September 27 2006, 8:54 AM 

The real question is, Why doesn't Nadab specifically outline what is wrong with the material that Ken presents in his posts, other than perhaps being rather long? Merely saying that someone is "wrong" without presenting concrete evidence to back up such an accusation is quite easy. Proving that someone is wrong takes effort, research, and hard work. So far, all Nadab has done is take the easy way out and call Ken "wrong." Saying that someone is "wrong" obviously doesn't make him "wrong." If Nadab cannot present concrete evidence to prove Ken wrong, then Nadab has no credibility on this site. The same tactics are often used against the essays of John Waddey. Liberals say that he's "wrong," but then they won't or can't prove him wrong.

So instead of focusing on whether I agree with or read Ken Sublett's posts, get to the real heart of the matter and focus attention on trying to refute them with some real evidence if you find fault with them. At least be mature enough to do that and not resort to weak insults and personal attacks.

 
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Roger Bradley
(no login)
64.185.31.101

I Knew It

September 27 2006, 3:31 PM 

Bill Crump-

I should have guessed that you believe "...the Bible is a condensed version of all of the wisdom of the world used by priests or magicians to try to relieve their own guilt by appeasing the "gods" meaning to to them "demons." It fits. So, courage and honor are not your thing, don't feel bad. We can't all have the benefit of a good raising.

Anyway, I asked you to rebuke Ken for his personal attack like you do everybody else. I even made it clear:

"I guess the bottom line is this Bill- Do you walk it, or just talk it?"

Well, you didn't let us down Bill, as we all suspected, you talk it, but can't walk it.

 
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Nadab
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66.142.13.251

Thanks

September 29 2006, 12:17 AM 

Roger-
I appreciate your recognition of the truth, and your attempt to expose the hypocrisy found here. I am also grateful for you standing up for me. However, calling me "Nablab" though hypocritical and childish, is not offensive to me. I've been called worse by their kind. I thank God for using them to give me thick skin

Mr. Bill-
One day, I really might take the time to sit down and word for word, or at least lie for lie, show you how Sublett is at fault. I'll have to be in the right mood. Like they say, when you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty, but the pig likes it. When I feel like getting dirty, maybe I'll take the time. I will warn you, that will be a long post, and I don't want to waste my time. If you'll agree to read it, and respond, then I'll do it.

Before you do though, I want you with spiritual and intellectual honesty to read any of his posts, and tell me you don't find anything in it that seems a little... suspect.

 
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Ken Sublett
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69.19.14.29

NaBlab means INCENSE means BURNING for "taking liberties."

September 25 2006, 1:13 PM 

Dear NaBlab: What you always needed to know but no "scholar can tell you" is that the Bible is a condensed version of all of the wisdom of the world used by priests or magicians to try to relieve their own guilt by appeasing the "gods" meaning to to them "demons." Think of the Bible as a book where each page is a sealed envelope: on the outside is a short story of real or "parable" events which give extra punch. One page might tell a story which means "How to identify the Race of Nachash or Viper people who existed before Eden."

This book got flooded into hiding about as soon as men like Moses or Paul wrote each "cover page" to the enclosed envelope. The Planet of the Apes was a Crumpian story that anyone who gets UN Rip Van Winkled can discover that the APES have really been worshiping the Atomic Bomb since the Liberals bombed the church.

Now, the preaching school teaches you how to preach on the instructions, class books are written, workshops are held and they even offer a PhDuh about the various ways to read the "instructions." However, the meaning of being given A holy spirit or A good conscience or consiousness or a CO-PERCEPTION proves that all of the "doctors of the Law" are just making disciples four-fold blinder. For those who have a LITTLE ability to READ black text on WHITE paper and exercise that gift it can be ADDED: God REMOVES Divine knowledge to those who don't deserve a peek into the sealed envelop.

The Nadab-Abihu story is one of the POINTERS to the curse Israel came under when they repudiated The Book of The Covenant of Grace (as under Abraham) and were given a Law which "was not good" for purging the conscience but only to protect the weak from the excess of RELIGION which God shows concentrated in the Sacrificial System.

AND Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not. Leviticus 10:1

1 And Nadab H5070 and Abihu H30, the sons H1121 of Aaron H175,
  • took H3947 either H376 of them his censer H4289,
  • and put H5414 fire H784 therein H2004,
  • and put H7760 incense H7004 thereon H5921,
  • and offered H7126 strange H2114 fire H784
  • before H6440 the LORD H3068,
    which H834 he commanded H6680 them not.
They did FIVE THINGS when God had been SILENT. But, what harm did they do? Not a single thing: the lesson was that GOD has the right to COMMAND and if He has not commanded then God is SILENT and if you PRESUME in the face of an infinite God you simply are NOT suitable material to move on to the Spirit World where body worship is not possible.

No, it was NOT just "strange fire" but because the people had come out of fire and sun worship, and had been abandoned to worship the starry host, and the priesthood was given also "BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSION," if you can PEEK into the envelope you will grasp that these men were PERFORMING worship of pagan incense burning. Even though they had been TURNED OVER to perform that kind of worship, it was important for God to identify those ACTS and to prove that THE WOULD NOT GET AWAY WITH IT.
    "It does not appear the they had any orders to burn incense at all at this time. It is true their consecration was completed the day before, and it was part of their work, as priests, to serve at the altar of incense;

      but, it should seem, the whole service of this solemn day of inauguration was to be performed by Aaron himself, for he slew the sacrifices (ch. 9:8, 15, 18),

      and his sons were only to attend him (v. 9, 12, 18); therefore Moses and Aaron only went into the tabernacle, v. 23.

    But Nadab and Abihu were so proud of the honour they were newly advanced to, and so ambitious of doing the highest and most honourable part of their work immediately, that though the service of this day was extraordinary, and done by particular direction from Moses,

    yet without receiving orders, or so much as asking leave from him, they took their censers, and they would enter into the tabernacle, at the door of which they thought they had attended long enough, and would burn incense.

    And THEN their offering strange fire is the same with offering STRANG incense, which is expressly forbidden, Ex. 30:9. Matthew Henry Lev 10

The message for modern NaBlabs is that No one but the High Priest went as far as the Incense Altar which in the Temple would be looking into the Most Holy Place as the symbolic presence of God and His Word under the mercy seat--GUARDED by idols which you cannot survive without being clothed with Christ.

That means that no one who does not "take God's Words" or singers or clappers or musicians could enter into the Holy Place (type of church of Christ) and assuredly NOT into the Most Holy Place.) They would assuredly be instantly executed.
    2 Chron 26:16 But when he was strong, his heart was lifted up to his destruction: for he transgressed against the LORD his God, and went into the temple of the LORD to burn incense upon the altar of incense.

    2 Chron 26: 17 And Azariah the priest went in after him, and with him fourscore priests of the LORD, that were valiant men:

    2 Chron 26: 18 And they withstood Uzziah the king, and said unto him, It appertaineth not unto thee, Uzziah, to burn incense unto the LORD, but to the priests the sons of Aaron, that are consecrated to burn incense: go out of the sanctuary; for thou hast trespassed; neither shall it be for thine honour from the LORD God.

    2 Chron 26: 19 Then Uzziah was wroth, and had a censer in his hand to burn incense: and while he was wroth with the priests, the leprosy even rose up in his forehead before the priests in the house of the LORD, from beside the incense altar.

    2 Chron 26: 20 And Azariah the chief priest, and all the priests, looked upon him, and, behold, he was leprous in his forehead, and they thrust him out from thence; yea, himself hasted also to go out, because the LORD had smitten him.

    2 Chron 26: 21 And Uzziah the king was a leper unto the day of his death, and dwelt in a several house, being a leper; for he was cut off from the house of the LORD: and Jotham his son was over the king's house, judging the people of the land.

You remember that God struck Miriam with leprosy when she presumed to speak FOR God: shouldn't elders worry about USING women in the type of the Holy Place? No one but our HIGH PRIEST can "lead us into the presence of God": shouldn't the ZOEites and ACapella (Goat singers) be worried about getting PAID to claim to do that?
    But on the other hand, if people are limited to the inspired psalms of the scriptures in the worship of God, then those who use hymns of human composition are acting without divine authority, and may be said to resemble those of old who made use of strange fire in their censers before the Lord. Hugh Brown, Presbyterian.
Those who have their degree in Nadab.Abihu.101 CANNOT look into the sealed envelope that singing Twila Paris or the "WorseShip Leader's" compositons IS taking strange fire into the "holy place" and they MAY ALREADY have scaly spots on their foreheads: maybe THIS is the mark of the beast (zoe)?

God slapped the CLERGY with Azazel or Scape Goating which was a GOAT (Capella) offered to appease Satan. The Scapegoat has the same meaning as the SORCERERS in Revelation 18 and the SORCERS are speakers, singers (a capella) and musicians working for the Babylon Harlot Church or CIRCE in John's view. So, when you hear the MUSIC of any kind replacing or GOING BEYOND what is written and DIRECT COMMANDED, and the singers are a CAPELLA or goat singers you know that you have done the Nadab and Abihu "worship service" and the only remedy is to be consumed, like the king/quee of Babylon, on a bed of maggots and fire in a place talled TOPHETH or "tambourine" which was king Solomon's Music Grove where THEY burned innocent children to get a VISION or VOICE directly from Molech also marked by SABBATH rituals.

I will be back!

 
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Ken Sublett
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66.82.9.54

"Musicians" under the AZAZEL curse added because of Nadab and Abihu.

September 26 2006, 12:59 PM 

Be aware that the Law was not GOD'S FIRST CHOICE OF A PLAN OF SALVATION which failed! During all periods people were justified or approved by God ONE AT A TIME based on their own practice of doing right and practicing social justice. They assembled in the Qahal, synagogue or "church in the wilderness" to read and discuss the Word of God and THAT has barely changed except for the Lord's Supper. No: there is no LAW of preaching, no LAW of listening, no LAW of singing and no LAW of "laying by in store" to feed a priesthood NECESSARY for national sacrifices only because they were under a curse. Most assuredly is there NO MONEY for CAPPELA or "goat singers" who were always INDWELLED by Azazel or one of the fallen angels. Jude calls them "wandering stars" or fallen angels. Hell or Topheth is specificially prepared to drive them there with musical instruments (Isaiah 30)

Azazel or Satan was the God of all "national" animal sacrifice centers. God KNEW that they offered the sacrifice to Him but THEY ate the flesh and that is what it was all about under the SCAPEGOAT imposed after the Nadab and Abihu fall from grace representing all sinners. All ancient views was that it was Azazel and other fallen angels who used the Lamech family of Jubal, Jabal, Tubal-Cain and Naamah to use music, warfare, stealing and enchantment to collect the free animals and then SELL them back to the owners. The musical idolatry at Mount Sinai was by a people God was justified to leave in Egypt to self destruct. The law was to LEGISLATE for the LAWLESS.

Because God Abandoned the Israelites to "worship the starry host," we cannot doubt that at EVERY OPPORTUNITY Satan would try to INTRUDE and get worship for HIMSELF. The scapegoat was Israel's curse to appease Satan.
    The azazel or SCAPEGOAT was added after this sin of Nadab and Abihu. Azazel and other fallen agents of Satan or Lucifer taught mortals how to use music and other ARTS AND CRAFTS to IMPROVE on the silence of God.
Jude and Peter warn us FOR WHOM God will come to execute Judgment. This story is well documented in the Lamech family of Jubal who HANDLED instruments WITHOUT AUTHORITY and and below is the DIRECT NAMING of part of the "heavenly host" to which God had abandoned Israel BECAUSE of musical idolatry at the foot of Mount Sinai. This story is repeated in The Book of Enoch and various other ancient documents to expand on the MUSIC IS IDOLATRY theme.
    Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    Col 2:17 Which are a SHADOW of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

That does NOT mean that they were OLD APPROVED PATTERNS: they FLATLY STOPPED the light from being spread. That DOES NOT mean that God approved musical instruments in the OBSOLETE model. That MEANS that the universal meaning of MUSIC is to tell God to "shut your face." That is STILL the only meaning.

That means don't let ANY man IMPOSE these rituals now full blown in Sabbath "worship" services where the Lord's Supper is polluted with music and menstrual odors.

A SHADOW is what you see when the Nadab and Abihus try to stand in the Holy Place offering the songs or prayers as the INCENSE for believers. When you defeat Satan and his agents who were identified as using music because it enchants or bewitches and is defined as sorcery, there there is NO ONE standing between you and God and you SEE God in Jesus Christ who was to be REPROACHED or made naked by those SELF-PLEASING which Paul outlawed for the synagogue (Rom 15).
    G4639 skia skee'-ah Apparently a primary word; "shade" or a shadow (literally or figuratively darkness of ERROR or an ADUMBRATION): -- shadow.

    Skia
    1. shadow
      1. shade caused by the INTERCEPTION of light
      2. an image cast by an object and representing the form of that object
      3. a sketch, outline, ADUMBRATION [obscuring]
We told you about the Cainites where Cain was OF that wicked one because Eve was WHOLLY SEDUCED, according to Paul, like a new bride. The SHADES continued and brought on the flood.

We told you that the Lucifer Principle is that he/she tried to BLEED OFF worship due only to a Spirit God to him/herself as the "singing and harp playing prostitute" even in the garden of Eden. Anyone PERFORMING as speakers, singers, musicians or actors are identified by the Greek language as HYPOCRITES. Jesus identified them as performing MOUTH religion.

The Cainites survived the flood and are noted to have restarted MUSICAL IDOLATRY right off the ark as well documented in the Babylonian tablets and defended by later scholars. That is why God removed Abraham, his family and disciples to Canaan.
    Gen 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

    Gen 4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.

    Gen 4:19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

As there is the story of the TWO SONS there is also the story of TWO LAMECHS. The evil Lamech has the same logogram as EA the Babylonian patron god of music in Babylon. It was his daughter, Inanna, who got him drunk and stole all of the MEs or magical enchantments including the "right of the eldership, the power to navigate the gates of hell, the power of musical performers and the power to kiss the Phallus and more.

The names of the wives have the following meaning understood by Paul when he silenced women in the assembly:
    H5710 Adah aw-daw' A primitive root; to advance, that is, pass on or continue; causatively to REMOVE; specifically to BEDECK (that is, bring an ORNAMENT upon): adorn, deck (self), pass by, TAKE AWAY.

    H5708 Ud ayd From an unused root meaning to set a period (compare H5710 and H5749 ); the menstrual flux (as periodical); by implication (in plural) soiling: filthy

One word for Abomination (of desolation) involves bringing menstrual odors into the presence of God in STAND UP or PRESIDE OVER roles.

Remember what Paul said about Eve and outlawing ADVANCING or USURPING authority and of PUTTING ON OF APPAREL or ornaments?
    H6738 TSEL tsale From H6751 ; SHADE, whether literally or figuratively:defence, shade (-ow).

    Clacal (h6767) TSEL-aw-tsal'; from 6749 redupl.; a clatter, i. e. (abstr.) whirring (of wings); (concr.) a cricket; also a harpoon (as rattling), a cymbal (as clanging): - cymbal, locust, SHADOWING, spear.

    All thy trees and fruit of thy land shall the locust consume. De.28:42

    And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. 2S.6:5

We will just look at JUBAL who is the MUSICAL guy from HELL:
    Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as HANDLE the harp and organ.

      HANDLE is: H8610 taphas taw-fas' A primitive root; to manipulate, that is, seize; chiefly to capture, wield; specifically to overlay; figuratively to use UNWARRANTABLY--catch, handle, (lay, take) hold (on, over), stop, X surely, surprise, take.

      H8608 taphaph taw-faf' A primitive root; to drum, that is, play (as) on the tambourine:taber, play with timbrels.

      H8611 tôpheth to'-feth From the base of H8608 ; a smiting, that is, (figuratively) contempt:--tabret.

      H8612 tôpheth to'-feth The same as H8611 ; Topheth, a place near Jerusalem:--Tophet, Topheth.
Because CAIN (from a musical note or lance) was OF that wicked one, it is not surprising that scholars understood how the SHADOWS continued to be CAST by Lucifer "the singing and harp playing prostitute." Remember the NAMES of the polygamous mother who produced music, stealing cattle (memblers), murder and enchantement.
In the book of Enoch, Watchers, Chapter 8

http://www.piney.com/Apoc1Watchers.html
    1 And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all

    2 colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they

    3 were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjaza taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, 'Armaros the resolving of enchantments, Baraqijal (taught) astrology, Kokabel the constellations, Ezeqeel the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiel the signs of the earth, Shamsiel the signs of the sun, and Sariel the course of the moon. And as men perished, they cried, and their cry went up to heaven . . .

The Books of Adam and Eve tells the same where the "enchantments" is the message of the Scape Goat which is PHARMAKIA or the SORCERY John accuses the speakers, singers and musicians of in Romans 18 in the END-TIME highly-detailed FULFILLMENT of the PATTERNISM. This agrees with the Bible that all of the FALLS are attributed to Satan's youth ministers making music. I have collected three dozen similar accounts of the universal believe and have posted them.
    It was the Cainite's punishment to have a hundred daughters borne them for each son; and this led to such husband-hunger that their women began to raid houses and carry off men.

    One day it pleased them to seduce them Sethites, after daubing their faces with rouge and powder, their eyes with antimony, and the soles of their feet with scarlet, dyeing their hair, putting on golden earrings, golden anklets, bracelets, and many-colored garments.

      In their ascent of the holy mountain,
      they twanged harps, blew trumpets, beat drums, sang, danced, clapped hands;
      then, having addressed the five hundred and twenty anchorites in cheerful voices,
      each caught hold of her victim and seduced him.

      These Sethites, after once succumbing to the Cainite women's blandishments, became more unclean than dogs,[Catamites whom Paul said would be OUTSIDE so they MUST worship in the place of the human spirit and NOT let the "pleasure pals" into the congregation.]

      and utterly forgot God's laws.
Read what Paul said in Romans 1. This is a repeat of the FALLS defined by the Jubal family creating the flood, the FALL into musical idolatry at Mount Sinai and the "flood" motif of Israel in Jeremiah 4.

Genun (Geni) is the prime name of JUBAL who was the "music minister" for Azazel leading Nadab and Abihu and helped destroy that race because he was a Cainite or Kenite meaning the generation of VIPERS John refused to baptized and the Seed of the Devil whom Jesus refused to speak without using parables to HIDE the truth from them. This is the meaning of the JUBILEE which was always held FOR THE ATONEMENT and loud blowing of Yobels or trumpets.

http://www.piney.com/MuGenun2.html
    (r) Genun [Jubal and family] the Canaanite, son of Lamech the Blind, living in the Land of the Slime Pits,

      was ruled by AZAEL [Azazeel] from his earliest YOUTH,
      and invented all sorts of musical instruments.
      When he played these, Azael entered into them too,

      You remember that David tried to AWAKEN his LYRE so he could Awaken the DAWN. All pagans believed that the demons ENTERED into and spoke through the musical sound. See Hab 2:19-20.

      so that they gave forth seductive tunes ENTRANCING the hearts of all listeners.

      John said that the speakers, singers and musicians were SORCERERS.

    Genun would assemble companies of musicians,
    who inflamed one another with music until their lust burned bright like fire,

    ZOE forced the dumb "jehovah and logos" to form these "musical worship teams" to worship ZOE who is LUCIFER

    and they lay together promiscuously. He also brewed beer, gathered great crowds in taverns, gave them to drink, and taught them to forge iron swords and spear-points, with which to do murder at random when they were drunk.

This is the meaning of the worship of the New WINESKIN god, Dionysus, representing The Abomination in the Temple and the Kenite SECTS whom Jesus accused of being WINESKINNERS. Shelly and Lucado claim that "the holy spirit" is God's song writer and dance master and the aka Vineyard says that God is the "holy bartender."

Rehearse: Israel worshipped the STARRY HOST under Apis represenging the Egyptian trinity with music. God saw this as their PRAYER and so he TURNED THEM OVER to worship the starry host (Acts 7 etal). God saw the Nadab and Abihu event as a PRAYER and God imposed the SCAPE GOAT which was to appease AZAZEL or Satan.

Modern musical performers (Jesus called them hypocrites and cast them out like dung) are APPEASING Apollyon as his MUSES (Locusts) and THAT is why they are able to escape the present reproaces of a Christian and SUCK IN THE SEEKERS. That is the story of the Jubal family and of Inanna in the Babylonian tablets. Moses wrote to WARN the people and try to protect them from the Canaanite or Babylonian Baalism but God carried out his judgment and moved them into BABYLON. And that is where you find the MANY of modern religionists because Peter said that MOST corrupt the Word meaning to "sell it at retail" as adulterers.

More scape goating where the MUSICATORS try to make the NON-instrumental churches the SCAPEGOAT or Satanic to DIVERT the wrath from themselves as the GUILTY PARTY.

Remember that the Judas Bag was "for carrying the mouthpieces of wind instruments" and is always shown attached to a flute case and perverted musicians. But, Psalm 41 promises that Judas would not TRIUMPH OVER or ALARM Jesus and Jesus and faithful believers refused to BOW and do the lament (bowing hurts) and dance of the Dionysus Abomination of Desolation when they PIPED.

 
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Ken Sublett
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66.82.9.82

You have to know WHERE to cut: need post doctoral studies for that!

September 27 2006, 9:14 AM 

Assignment: What color was Augustine's skin? Where and how do you think he arrived at "Conceptional Sin?" What part did Augustine's private affairs have on his views that all were born in sin and doomed to hell? What kind of religion in what city gave him the view of his "god" who lusts to burn infants eternally to prove that HE is sovereign? Do you believe "scholarly" works by PhDuhs? I find that it is virtually impossible to find anyone who does not cut N paste from other PhDuhs and has never read any original source. Can you find Augustine's REAL writings and COMPARE them with the "scholarly" big fat lies and make us a report? A TRUE scholar knows WHERE to cut!

Can you find the word AUGUSTINE in the following? WHY do you think there was such a CONFLICT over whether the "praises" should be sung OURWARDLY or as Paul said IN THE HEART? Why do you think scholars even THOUGHT that SINGING IN THE HEART meant SINGING IN THE HEART?

Notice, carefully, that whe the songs were SUNG they were RECITED: that which Moses did and all NON afflicted people did. That means SPEAK as in Paul's direct command to SPEAK as in the word SPEAK.

Where do you think that I CUT the following?

Objection 1. It would seem that God should not be praised with song. For the Apostle says (Col. 3:16): "Teaching and admonishing one another in psalms, hymns and spiritual canticles."
Now we should employ nothing in the divine worship
save what is delivered to us on the authority of Scripture.
Therefore it would seem that, in praising God, we should employ, not corporal but spiritual canticles.
    Reply to Objection 1. The name of spiritual canticle may be given not only to those that are sung inwardly in spirit, but also to those that are sung outwardly with the lips, inasmuch as such like canticles arouse spiritual devotion.
Objection 2. Further, Jerome in his commentary on Eph. 5:19, "Singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord," says:
"Listen, young men whose duty it is to RECITE the office in church:
God is to be sung NOT with the voice BUT with the heart. Nor should you, like play-actors, ease your throat and jaws with medicaments, and make the church resound with theatrical measures and airs." Therefore God should not be praised with song.
    Reply to Objection 2. Jerome does not absolutely condemn singing,
    but reproves those who sing theatrically in church not in order to arouse devotion,
    but in order to show off, or to provoke pleasure. Hence Augustine says (Confess. x, 33):
    "When it befalls me to be more moved by the voice than by the words sung, I confess to have sinned penally, and then had rather not hear the singer."
Objection 3. Further, the praise of God is competent to little and great, according to Apoc. 14, "Give praise to our God, all ye His servants; and you that fear Him, little and great." But the great, who are in the church, ought not to sing: for Gregory says (Regist. iv, ep. 44):
"I hereby ordain that in this See the ministers of the sacred altar must not sing" (Cf. Decret., dist. xcii., cap. On sancta Romana Ecclesia). Therefore singing is unsuitable to the divine praises.
    Reply to Objection 3. To arouse men to devotion by teaching and preaching is a more excellent way than by singing.
    Wherefore deacons and prelates, whom it becomes to incite men's minds towards God by means of preaching and teaching,
    ought not to be instant in singing, lest thereby they be withdrawn from greater things.
    Hence Gregory says (Regist. iv, ep. 44):
    "It is a most discreditable custom for those who have been raised to the diaconate
    to serve as choristers, for it behooves them to give their whole time to the duty of preaching and to taking charge of the alms."
I believe that it was Augustine who said that the emotion raised by "singing" made him think of when he was in love with his wife.

 
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TMP
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66.199.28.132

Re: You have to know WHERE to cut: need post doctoral studies for that!

September 27 2006, 12:01 PM 

Ken, I never questioned that your writings were your own, but that you copied and pasted from your own writings over and over again...since often your rants were on the same topics with no new material and that you are in desparate need of an editor. But I do appreciate this latest response was directed at my comments, and that you kept it under 8 pages.

I am not going to answer your questions about Augustine, simply because I am not nor do I want to be your student. Although when the author of Augustine's biography was talking about the debates between Jerome and Augustine...for some reason Jerome reminded me of you. And while you have done much research on many topics about the ancient church and greek mythology, I don't see in your writings what is of most importance: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.






 
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Ken Sublett
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66.82.9.89

A message of LOVE for the fleeced sheep beside the sounds of mighty rushing waters: FLEE.

September 28 2006, 11:47 AM 

I thought that you would notice that both of these scholars agree with PAUL who uses the word SPEAK and ALL known scholars know that the "songs" were READ or "SPOKEN" (as in the word SPEAK) and not SANGED ala castratos or a capella (goat singers).

Because the command to sing AND make melody are present participles and are said by Paul to be BOTH in the HEART which is the spirit PLACE where Jesus says God looks rather than to our bodies-- and NOT by what he SEES or HEARS--as the mark of the SEVEN SPIRITS in Isaiah 11, I wonder why ALL of the literates agreed that the worship was INTERNAL but some ALLOWED external RECITING (of the TEXT) while TOO MANY pickers of the widow's purse identify it as a HATE crime to tell the kings (aka queens) that THEY HAVE NO CLOTHES?

I, sir, do NOT believe that you see VISIONS and hear AUDIBLE VOICES like the fleecers claim and therefore, I DO NOT believe that you have the power TO discern what is in my heart. And I wonder why that is the DIVERSION to the RAW ASSERTIONS which I have made and proven and YOU and yours CANNOT DISPROVE, that the SYNAGOGUE or EKKLESIA is NOT possible when the love bugs speak softly about love and building on the foundation of JUST PREACHING (a big lie) a crucified Christ when they are featherbedding, and those who ARE NOT fooled know for an absolute certainty that what you SEE and HEAR and SMELL in all of those new INSTITUTES is built up the SINGLE foundation of PASSING THE COLLECTION PLATE for the Lord. That means that they are building on CRUCIFYING JESUS CHRIST all over again and you just don't grasp the CODE words.

Why do you identify trying to pull a few from the fires or come to the defense of honest working people being raped in the middle of the street as a LACK OF LOVE. It simply is NOT possible to speak the TRUTH without being called a hater BECAUSE your unlawfully and lawless preachers have INDOCTRINATED you to believe that to "question god's annointeds is a HATE CRIME which the FAITH-BASED people must STAMP OUT."

The REAL Jesus Christ pronounced woes, cast out the musical minstrels LIKE DUNG, turned over the COLLECTION PLATES which were called TRUMPETS, took a whip to the "big gun preachers," and BECAUSE they accepted the Widow's mites PROMISED that their mega church would shortly be a HEAP OR RUBBLE and THE fulfilling of the PATTERNISM of the king/queen of Babylon who would be consumed on a bed of magggots along with his/her harps and still breathing harpists. The spirit OF FIRE and the spirit OF burning would, as history notes, consume a million of the SECTARIANS. They still lament that they cannot FIND any of the harps which are REQUIRED to start up the sacrificial system in a new temple in Jerusalem. Why do you permit A crapalla singers to literallty CALL DOWN THE FIRES and fund a "professor" who calls for the same thing?

I have news: the sacrificial system HAS been restored in Nashville, a city set on seven hills. BUT, the sacrificial system WAS an early version of BABYLONIANISM imposed because of musical idolatry of the trinity at Mount Sinai and the later demand for a DOMINANT PASTOR. So, we are about at the TERMINUS of the woes when the speakers, singers, musicians and grinders (prostitutes) are identified by John as SORCERERS who invited God to remove the CANDLES in Revelation 18. Why is it LOVE to set up INSTITUTES built on the identical PATTERNISM which John prophesied and understood by any kid who had heard Homer RECITED?

If you will do some Phost PhDuh work and read Isaiah 30 you will hear God promising to drive all of the nation-states into hell to the BEAT of the wind, string and percussion instruments with which Lucifer (Zoe) came into the garden of Eden to wholly seduce Eve and allow the "generation of vipers" or "sons of the Devil" to infiltrate God's holy race. If I heard "organic" instruments calling down the fires I would see this is a MARK of the beast: Zoe is called "the beast and female instructing principle."

Now, you can do your hate crime on me but that will NOT excuse someone from proving or burning that:

There is a Law of Preaching
A law of Listening to cut N paste Bible as an Act of worship
A law of SANGING as in musicating
A Law of using Twila Paris to replace the Spirit of Christ
A Law of Giving to the able bodied male (?) who does not have a GO button.
A pyramidal "ministry team" suggested by a pagan priest to Moses and IMPOSED on Israel as a CURSE when they demanded a king.
Turning "Bible class meetings" into Social Service Agents.

Otherwise, the church KIRKE or CIRCE (circus) IS built upon the foundation of Christ and Him crucified AT THE NEXT APPOINTED HOUR.

A LOVE PAT: the Qahal or synagogue or church in the wilderness, the ekklesia, the assemblies Paul defined with a "synagogue" word, the historical church of Christ for hundreds of years, and the definition of the Campbells to mark a RESTORED church was
    A School of the Bible where you SPEAK or cantillatate (metrically) what was commanded for the Holy Convocation in the wilderness To REST, READ and REHEARSE:

    "The Bible, Jesus and the enuch"
    That which is written or Scripture (Paul's NOT singing in Rom 15)
    The Spirit or Psalms, Hymns and Spiritual songs ALL inspired text (Eph 5)
    The Word of Christ in Col 3.
    The inspired text in all early churches prior to about 400

To that, Jesus instituted, Paul defined and commanded, and the historical church observed the Lord's Supper to remember His DEATH and not to celebrate, whistle, clap, sing or hum while HE gathers with us to GRIEVE OUT A HYMN (Heb 2).

Other than the social fellowship--without a HIRED Fellership Minister--THAT defines the church and that is what Thomas Campbell defined and was restored for one shining moment but was, like the MANY of Paul's writings and the MOST who corrupted (sold) the word according to Peter, the SHEEP LIKE nature of honest people meant that the hirelings quickly displaced the true evangelists.

Calvin: "Why should the ploughing oxen starve and the lazy ASSES be fed?"

Your turn: I intend to go take a nap and sleep off the pain.

 
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Ken Sublett
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66.82.9.85

Scape Goat #2: added because of Nadab

September 29 2006, 1:44 PM 

God always OUTS people by the NAMES they use: I won't go into the background of the NAMES God forces on the AGENTS of Azazel. Miriam continued the false, musical worship of Egypt and the PLAY was musical idolatry at Mount Sinai. That is why God turned them over to worship the HEAVENLY STARS or wandering planets. Hell is specificially prepared for them according to Isaiah 30. Nadab was the MARKER of the actual worship of the starry host: burning literal incense and using literal instruments are the TEST for us.

Azazel and other fallen angels taught the youthful JUBAL and family--well documented in the Babylonian Tablets--how to seduce people away from the LIVING Word by the use of "putting on of " which in the literature was a GENDER CONFUSER, singing and instrumental music. This led to sodomy among father and son and all of the things Paul documents in Romans 1.

He/she is the "singing and harp playing prostitute in the garden of Eden and unleashed Cain who was OF that wicked one. Of Tyre INDWELLED by Satan:
    Thou hast BEEN in EDEN the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy TABRETS and of thy PIPES was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Ezekiel 28:13

    They will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea. Ezek 26:12

    I will put an end to your noisy songs, and the music of your harps will be heard no more. Ezek 26:13

    Music is sound: bleating, crackling, yelling. "And he shall destroy the multitude of thy musicians, and the sound of thy psalteries shall be heard no more." Ezek. 26:13 LXX

    then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you will not return or take your place in the land of the living. Ezek 26:20

This was EXACTLY fulfilled when Jesus came to "Hargar, Mount Sinai, Law, Jerusalem or Sodom" where it was prophesied that Judas would try to DISABLE Him meaning with music. Judas failed but the "Levitical Warrior Musicians" mocked Him to His death but not for long. That is in part for Jesus MARKING the clergy as sons of the Devil or generation of Vipers: he cast out the Musical Ministels LIKE DUNG because all such performers were pretend sorceresses or Locusts. This is how it is going down in YOUR church built upon the foundation of a CRUCIFIED CHRIST meaning WE WILL CRUCIFY HIM ALL OVER with mocking music. Remembing that the literal king/queen as LUCIFER went into Topheth with his/her harps and buried alive harpists, John gives us the end-time sign which the VIPER PEOPLE cannot help from performing because music DISABLES the rational mind. The "civilization--destroying" christianism is built 100% on the foundation of sand of the UNLAWFUL LAW OF GIVING or TITHING.
    Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. [seed pickers]

    Rev 18:14 And the FRUITS that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were DAINTY and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

    And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; Rev 18:22

    Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

The SORCERERS are the LOCUSTS any school kid would understand to be the MUSES or "musical worship team" SERVING Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) used to bring on charismatic madness the CORRUPTERS (sellers of the Word at retail) TRAFFICED as the gods or "demons" literally inside. The Sorcerers are:
    Pharmakos [v. ad fin.], ho, one sacrificed or executed as an atonement or purification for others, SCAPEGOAT, Ar.Ra.733

    and, since criminals were reserved for this fate, a general name of reproach, Ar.Eq.1405, Lys.6.53

Because there are many readers of the Classics "not covered in PhDuh" I will post some data which is too hard to link here but I will make this a web page.
    Ar.Ra.733 Aristophanes, Frogs 718:
    So too the citizens whom we know to be noble and virtuous,
    and righteous and true men of quality
    and trained in the palaestra and dancing and music,
    these we despise,

    but the brazen foreigners and redheads
    worthless sons of worthless fathers,
    these we use for everything,

    these latest parvenus, whom the city before this
    wouldn't have lightly used even for random scapegoats.
    But now, you dimwits, change your ways,
    and employ the good ones again. And if you succeed,
    it's praiseworthy. But if you stumble, at least you'll hang from a respectable tree--
    So wise men will think, if anything happens to you.

    Ar.Eq.1405 Aristophanes, Knights
    Sausage-Seller
    It will not be over-terrible. I condemn him to follow my old trade; posted near the gates, he must sell sausages of asses' and dogs' meat; [1400] perpetually drunk, he will exchange foul language with prostitutes and will drink nothing but the dirty water from the baths.

    Demos
    Well conceived! he is indeed fit to wrangle with harlots and bathmen; as for you, in return for so many blessings, I invite you [1405] to take the place at the Prytaneum which this rogue once occupied. Put on his frog-green mantle and follow me. As for the other, let them take him away; let him go sell his sausages in full view of the foreigners, whom he used formerly to insult so wantonly.

    Lysias Against Andocides 6.53] Who ought to tolerate these doings? What person, whether friend or relation or townsman, is to incur the open enmity of the gods by showing him secret favour? You should therefore, consider that to-day, in punishing Andocides and in ridding yourselves of him,
      you are cleansing the city, you are solemnly purifying it from pollution,
      you are dispatching a foul scapegoat,
      you are getting rid of a reprobate; for this man is all of them in one.
You may remember that the JUBILEE (horn blowing) had the ATONEMENT as its primary ritual!

In another definition the word is used in the Greek OT and NT:
    Pharmakos (on the accent v. Hdn.Gr.1.150), ho, hê, poisoner, sorcerer, magician, LXXEx.7.11 (masc.), Ma.3.5 (fem.), Apoc.21.8, 22.15.

    Sophos I. properly, skilled in any handicraft or art, cunning in his craft, Theogn., etc; of a charioteer, Pind.; of poets and musicians, id=Pind.; of a soothsayer, Soph., etc.

Plato, Euthydemus,
[289e] For not only do these speech-writers themselves, when I am in their company, impress me as prodigiously clever, Cleinias, but their art itself seems so exalted as to be almost inspired. However, this is not surprising; for it is a part of the sorcerer's art, [290a] and only slightly inferior to that. The sorcerer's art is the charming of snakes and tarantulas and scorpions and other beasts and diseases, while the other is just the charming and soothing of juries, assemblies, crowds, and so forth. Or does it strike you differently? I asked.
    Sorcery is: Epôidê, Ion. and poet. epaoidê

    A. song sung to or over: hence, enchantment, spell, epaoidêi d' haima..eschethon Od.19.457 , cf. Pi.P.4.217 ; ou pros iatrou sophou thrênein epôidas pros tomônti pêmati S.Aj. 582 oute pharmaka..oud' au epôidai Pl.R. 426b ; charm for or against

I told you that Isaiah 30 (and many others) specificially DECLARE that Topheth which was specificially prepared for MUSICAL SORCERERS. It was PATTERNED by king Solomon's Music Grove where they burned children to the BEAT of musical instruments as HUMAN SCAPEGOATS to Azazel or Molech.

Malachi declared that THIS WARNING IS FOR YOU O PRIESTS. It was NEVER lawful to take ANYTHING from people's EARNED WAGE other than free will giving: when you declare it a LAW as at Donnie's church where you PROSPER if you TITHE and you might SUFFER if you don't then YOU are lumped with the SORCERERS and ADULTERERS (who profit from preaching according to Peter's word CORRUPT which means MOSTLY):
    Exodus 7:11 includes ENCHANTMENTS and ALL singing with or without instruments is defined as charming or enchantment or sorcery.

    I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against the perjurers, and against those who oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and who deprive the foreigner of justice, and don't fear me," says Yahweh of Hosts. Mal 3: [5]

No, silly PhDuh, that does not mean that "there is nothing wrong with their worship" they just had a bad mental attitude. That's what they ALL say about Amos. So, I suppose you can be a SORCERER (musicians meaning Hypocrites) or ADULTERER (sell the Word at retail) or PERJURER (changing the Word of God meaning Pharisee) or "Oppressor of the WAGE EARNER" (Law of Giving).
    But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all LIARS, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." Rev 21: 8

    Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols:the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. Isaiah 14:11

    OR: Thy glory has come down to Hades, and thy great mirth: under thee they shall spread corruption and the worm shall be thy covering. Isaiah 14:11 LXX

Paul said that we should obey Jesus and worship IN the Spirit: that is a PLACE and worship can only take place in the mind. If you worship with your body then you are a nasty, nasty. Paul said that without are the homosexual Cynics trying to seduce you and Revelation 22 warns:
    For without are dogs, and sorcerers (pharmakos: poison with a magical drug incantation), and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. Revelation 22:15
The DOGS are:
    Kuon (g2965) koo'-ohn; a prim. word; a dog ["hound"] (lit. or fig.): - dog.

    And the CYMBAL is: Kuma (g2949) koo'-mah; from 2965, (to swell with young, i.e. bend, curve); a billow (as bursting or toppling): - wave.

In paganism the male prostitutes were the "dogs of Cyble" and in the Old Testament a "dog" is a symbol:
    Keleb (h3611) keh'leb; from an unused root mean. to yelp, or else to attack; a dog; hence (by euphemism) a male prostitute: - dog.

    And the sorcerer is:

    "Applied to Persian priests or astrologers of Babylon. Pharmakos (g5333) an adjective signifying "devoted to magical arts," is used as a noun, "a sorcerer," especially one who uses drugs, potions, spells, enchantments, Rev 21:8, in the best texts (some have pharmakeus) and 22:15" Vine

Of ALL external singing NOT commanded and NOT used for about 400 years:
    Aoidê 1. art of song, autar aoidên thespesiên, spell, incantation, thing sung, song, whether of joy or sorrow,

    Aeidô sing,.hence of all kinds of vocal sounds, crow as cocks, hoot as owls, croak as frogs,; hoi tettiges chamothen aisontai, crowing too soon.

    The tettiges are the LOCUSTS which are the MUSES serving Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyo

And remember that I proved that the SORCERERS or MUSES of Apollyon are the SCAPE-GOATS because after separating those with the MARK of the beast (Zoe and music) from those MARKED by the Word in their SPIRIT and ACTIONS, they will go back into hell to burn.

I dont' make any specific accusation but one wonders why "preachers mostly" usurping the authority of elders lust exactly for that which MARKS them just the way ALL priesthoods were marked. We know that the WOLVES in Acts 20 Paul warned about are "lovers of young boys" and they lead the GOAT SINGERS into the SHEEP FOLD. If there was one jot or tittle which attributed some value to music, or if there was one jot or tittle which did not IMPLICATE all theatrical and musical performance as SECTARIAN HYPOCRITES (Jesus pointing to Isaiah and Ezekiel) then we MIGHT have room to doubt. However, since they are ENACTING an ancient PATTERNISM prophesied for such a time as these we fall back on Jesus identifying th eclery as sons of the Devil because they "speak on their own" (violating direct warnings) and are the generation of vipers John refused to baptize.

How else can you account for the SUDDEN swarm of PhDuhs promothing the RESTRUCTURE of peaceable churches and the seemingly-miraculous INVASION of professional musicians which SEPARATE people into the two MARKS prophesied of the Locusts or Muses under Apollyon? They WILL go back into hell.

 
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Ken Sublett
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66.82.9.89

Proof of Azazel or Apollyon or Devil Worship!

September 30 2006, 5:07 PM 

If this is too heavy for you don't feel obligated: My witness has the same effect whether read or not because NOT reading is the MARK.

I need to lay some background to show the SCAPEGOAT which was connected to Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) probably originated in Egypt before the "fall into musical idolatry" at Mount Sinai and Nadab and Abihu continuing to continue their old religion brought with them. John in Revelation connects the end-time Harlot worship with speakers, singers and musicians (hypocrites) to several of the prophecies which has Lucifer beginning the assault through Eve in the garden of Eden. The subconsious or unconsious impulse of the WOLVES Paul warned about is to set up the SAME Azazel or Apollyon worship using MUSES (prostitutes). Apollo could change himself into a kind of "angel of light" and could seduce "ministers" into his own Seeker Center (theater, gym, swimming pool etal). While they LIE about every jot and tittle of the Bible to PROVE that they are worshiping Jesus Christ, Apollo and the Muses have seduced them into demon or Satan worship. That is the message of ZOE who forced the "ignorant" father Jehovah and logos into forming musical bands to worship ZOE.

http://www.piney.com/Dochypostas.html

This means that you have fallen into Gnosticism:
    The worship of Apollo has returned with the rise of revivalist Hellenic polytheism, and the contemporary Pagan movement. Together with Athena, Apollo (under the name Phevos) was controversially designated as a mascot of the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens/
How to detect Apollyon and the Locusts in your church:

Euripides, The Trojan Women Tells the same story John used in Revelation to warn about the end time Mother Harlot worship where speakers, singers, musicians and teknokrats are called SORCERERS who deceived the whole world. That is what they are TRYING to do.

Chorus Leader

How sweetly at your own sad lot you smile, chanting a strain, which, in spite of you, may prove you wrong!

    melpô 2. intr., sing, tas kitharas [guitar] enopan let it sound, Id.Ion881 (lyr.): c. dat. instrum., m. aulôi [flute. play on, sing to the lyre or harp,
Talthybius

Had not Apollo turned your wits to maenad [Bacchus-Dionysus] revelry, you would not for nothing have sent my chiefs [410] with such ominous predictions forth on their way.

But, after all, these lofty [exairô: outlawed by Paul] minds, reputed wise, are nothing better than those that are held as nothing.. For that mighty king of all Hellas, dear son of Atreus, has yielded to a passion

    This is the madness of the prophesying women in 1 Cor 11-15 Mainas, ados, hê, ( [mainomai] ) A. raving, frantic, 2. as Subst., mad woman, esp. Bacchante, 3. = pornê, A. harlot, prostitute

    Alll of the MUSES were known to be vile prostitutes and Apollo was a fornicator and a Sodomite.

    You will remember that Psalm 41 prophesied that Judas would attempt to TRIUMPH OVER JESUS. In the Greek this included the perverted "ministers" of Dionysuys or Muses. Pinder and EVERYONE knows what YOU are doing:

    Pi.P.4.216 [1] Today you must stand beside a beloved man, Muse, the king of Cyrene with its fine horses, so that while Arcesilas celebrates his triumph you may swell the fair wind of song that is due to the children of Leto and to Pytho [Serpent], where once the priestess seated beside the golden eagles of Zeus,

    Triumph Kômazô -revel, make merry neoi kômazon hup' aulou Hes.Sc.281 ; kômazonta met' aulêtêros [fluting] aeidein [singing]

    Phasis, where they clashed with the dark-faced Colchians in the realm of Aeetes himself. And the queen of sharpest arrows brought the dappled wryneck from Olympus, bound to the four spokes [215] of the indissoluble wheel: [216] Aphrodite [ZOE] of Cyprus brought the maddening bird to men for the first time,
      and she taught the son of Aeson skill in prayerful incantations,
      so that he could rob Medea of reverence for her parents,
      and a longing for Greece would lash her, her mind on fire,
      with the whip of Persuasion.
[415] for this mad maiden of all others; though I am poor enough, yet would I never have chosen such a wife as this.

As for you, since your senses are not whole, I give your taunts against Argos and your praise of Troy to the winds to carry away. Follow me now [420] to the ships to grace the wedding of our chief. And you too follow, whenever the son of Laertes demands your presence, for you will serve a mistress most discreet, as all declare who came to Ilium.

Cassandra responds

A clever fellow, this servant! Why is it heralds hold [425] the name they do?

    The herald is the PREACHER kêrux A. herald, pursuivant: generally, public messenger, envoy

    from presbeis, as being messengers between nations at war, Sch.Th.1.29, cf. A.Supp.727, Pl.Lg.941a, D.12.4
    used interchangeably with apostolos, Hdt.1.21
    4. generally, messenger, herald, theoi kêrukes angellousi S.OC1511 ,

Now, you know why it was unlawful in Athenian Law to send a philosopher, poet or musician out as a KERRUX or PREACHER or PRESBYTER.

The musical madness of the WORSHIP TEAM of Apollyon always stirred up hatred so that Casander notes:

All men unite in hating with one common hate the attendants of kings or governments. You say my mother shall come to the halls of Odysseus? Where then are Apollo's words, so clear to me in their interpretation, which declare [430] that she shall die here? What else remains, I will not taunt her with. Unhappy Odysseus, he does not know the sufferings that await him; or how these ills I and my Phrygians endure shall one day seem to him precious as gold. For beyond the ten long years spent at Troy he shall drag out other ten and then come to his country all alone . . . [435] where dreadful Charybdis [whirlpool, rapacious person] lurks in a narrow channel between the rocks;
    Harpag-ê A. seizure, robbery, rape, II. thing seized, booty, prey, III. greediness, X.Cyr.5.2.17, IV. en harpagêi selênês when the moon is invisible, PMag.Par.1.750.
past Cyclops the savage shepherd,
    These Mountain Ranging savage shepherds consumed RAM MEAT Raw and this defines the "abomination of desolation" in part..

    mountain-ranging aix , aigos, 2. aix agrios wild goat, mostly female, aix ourania in Com. as a source of mysterious and suspected wealth, in allusion to the horn of Amalthea, aigôn onomata, of worthless objects, 3. the star CAPELLA
Circe is the Mother goddess used by John to define the end-time church. She gave her name to CHURCH so that SHE is the CENTER of modern christianism. She used SORCERY and MUSIC to seduce "visitors" or "seekers," wholly seduced them and then TURNED them into swine who "grunted out" their praises to HER..

and Ligurian Circe who turns men to swine;
shipwrecked often upon the salt sea-wave;
longing to eat the lotus, and the sacred cattle of the sun,
[440] whose flesh shall utter in the days to come a human voice,
bitter to Odysseus. In brief, he shall descend alive to Hades,
and, though he shall escape the waters' flood,
yet shall he find a thousand troubles in his country when he arrives.

    Helio aster is both the SUN God and SATURN. This is another name for Lucifer and for Zoe later on.

    Helios: II. as pr. n., Helios, the sun-god. 2. Hêliou astêr, of the planet Saturn, v.l. in Pl.Epin.987c, cf. D.S.2.30,
Apollo [Abaddon, Apollyon, Lucifer, Zoe] is considered to have dominion over plague, light, healing, colonists, medicine, archery, poetry, prophecy, dance, reason, intellectualism, Shamans, and as the patron defender of herds and flocks. Apollo had a famous oracle in Crete and other notable ones in Clarus and Branchidae.

The Greek word PSALLO has no connection to MUSIC of any form: it simply means to PLUCK and in all of the "proof texts" it involved males, like Apollo, who plucked the harp to groom young boys to be plucked in "pederasty." It is only connected to "singing" because of the concept that one "shot out hymns." The end-time grasp of PSALLO is a MARK of its homosexual or warfare connection with "gods" lie Apollo who is the Apollyon or Abaddon of Revelation.

Apollo, the eternal beardless youth himself, had the most male lovers of all the Greek gods, as could be expected from a god who was god of the palaestra, the athletic gathering place for youth, who all competed in the nude.

Apollo is known as the leader of the Muses ("musagetes") and director of their choir. His attributes include: swans, wolves, dolphins, bows and arrows, a laurel crown, the cithara (or lyre) and PLECTRUM. The sacrificial tripod is another attribute, representative of his prophetic powers.

    Paul used the word PSALLO which specificially EXCLUDES the plectrum.

    I. to touch sharply, to pluck, pull, twitch, Aesch.; toxou neuran ps. to twang the bow-string, Eur.; belos ek keraos ps. to send a shaft twanging from the bow, Anth.;
    II. to play a stringed instrument with the fingers, NOT with the plectron, Hdt., Ar., Plat.
    2. later, to sing to a harp, SING NTest.

The swan and grasshopper symbolize music and song; the hawk, raven, crow and snake have reference to his functions as the god of prophecy. The chief festivals held in honour of Apollo were the Carneia, Daphnephoria, Delia, Hyacinthia, Pyanepsia, Pythia and Thargelia.
    Thalrgelia (pharmakos=sorcery Revelation 18)in Greek religion, one of the chief festivals of Apollo at Athens, celebrated on the sixth and seventh days of Thargelion (May-June). Basically a vegetation ritual upon which an expiatory rite was grafted, the festival was named after the first fruits, or the first bread from the new wheat.

    On the first day of the festival, one or two men (or a man and a woman),
      representing the deity but also acting as scapegoats for COMMUNITY guilt, were first led through the city and then driven out. Occasionally, as in times of heavy calamity, they were sacrificed, being either thrown into the sea or burned on a funeral pyre. On the second day of the festival, there were a thanks offering, a procession, and the official registration of adopted persons.
This also happened at Jerusalem where the SCAPE GOAT was led outside the city and cast over o clif. They literally tried to do this to Jesus when He dedclared that he was not their GOD OF NEW WINE AND MIRACLES.

This COMMUNITY was so vile that the Roman Government had to severely limit the NUMBERS and to DAY LIGHT HOURS ONLY. This was one of the cults holding DIVERSE views which were NOT permitted to dialog them in the assembly (Rom 14-15)

Of the initiation into Dionysus worship which the SECTARIANS in Jerusalem tried on Jesus by PIPING in his association. This also implicates the sudden rise of the COMMUNITY concept where the "school of the Bible" is turned into a COMMUNE where, in the words of Shelly-York "the individual has no right to read,interpret or speak the Word outside of the COMMUNITY reading." The ekklesia assembled once a week and when it DISassembled itself it ceased to exist. In the civil ekklesia they elected a president to be the CONTACT man for any need. Otherwise, it had NO STAFF INFECTION to make sure that the COMMUNE was under CULT-LIKE control which is the meaning of COMMUNITY.
    In every Greek city the god Dionysus was worshipped by fraternities and sororities and also by mixed communities. Dionysus was a god of fruitfulness and vegetation but especially of wine. The Dionysiac festivals provided an opportunity for stepping outside of the daily routine. The festivals included not only drinking wine and engaging in sexual activity but also participating in such significant features of Greek civilization as choral singing and MIMES.

    In many cases, only the initiated [Inner circle of Purpose Driven] could participate in the ceremonies. As almost every Greek did join in, initiation into the Dionysiac cult might be compared to TRIBAL initiations. The Phallic Journey in Promise Keepers.

    It seems that initiation into the Dionysiac Mysteries was accompanied by initiation into sexual life. The act of producing offspring, however, could never be wholly separated from the thought of death, so that the worshippers of Dionysus were aware of a mystic COMMUNION among the ancestors, the living generation, and the future members of the community.

This same worship at Mount Sinai and recorded by Amos and Isaiah was a COMMUNION or feast WITH and FOR dead ancestors. It was called the Marzeah or that to which God abandoned Israel for this SAME musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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