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Re: “President of Christian college in Michigan resigns”

June 29 2008, 11:44 AM 

When William (Bill Crump) states about me
"....yet he constantly lobbies for instrumental music in worship and other "changes." As a result of Dave's passionate desire, "everyone" in the church of Christ wants IM in worship, or so Dave has convinced himself"
William is not telling the truth.
More importantly he is not telling the truth and he knows it. He knows that I have stated that I would not worship at a church that uses instrumental music. He also knows that I consider instrumental music and a capella preferrence. The singing is done whether with a style of four part harmony or instrumental music. The church that I have and always will worship with will be a capella. Again, William knows this for he has heard me say it numerious times. Why would he lie against me like this then?
The untruth that William malicioulsy spoke of is that I lobby for instrumental music. I never have and never will. William knows this, but his underlying immaturity pervades his reasoning. The fact that I will not condemn those who care to use instrumental music brings William to invent or conjure up in his mind false diatrbibe against me.
I am a regular at a site called Faithsite Premium. William and Donnie Cruz and others from this site go there to needle many of us there because we don't conform to their traditions. We do not say that their traditions are bad, sinful, etc. but they condemn anything that would take the church away from that traditional posture (praise teams, clapping, lifting holy hands).
To push my point about this site and William (Bill Crump) let me offer to you that he has been banned multiple times from Faithsite. Why? Because he broke the rules of Christian behavior there at Faithsite. His behavior was found to be antiChristian, and for that he was banned. Donnie Cruz, also of this site, has been banned mulitple times from Faithsite for the same reasoning.

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(no login)

Are you sure about that?

December 26 2008, 9:37 AM 

ServantforHim (brother Dave) writes that Dr. Crump was banned from another site. Is anyone sure about that? Who ban him? Who gave a reason for the ban?

It is true that he and several others had a problem signing in at that site for a while but no one has ever confessed to banning anyone, that is, unless Dave is making a confession that he was the one.

In Christ,

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(no login)

Good Job

December 24 2008, 8:32 AM 

Dr Bill
Just wanted to give you an at'boy, way to come in there, good job

To God be the Glory
Joe McKnight

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Ken Sublett
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C. Leonard Allen: More false Trinity teachings.

December 4 2008, 5:21 PM 

I have done a quick review of C. Leonard Allen's take on the TRINITY as necessary because the Godhead had COMMUNITY within THEMselves. Of course, he uses other "doctors of the law" to define this new community of persons which is a radical departure from the classical trinity which proves that any communing was between God who as father THOUGHT and His breath expelled wordS which became His Son. Indeed, communing within oneself is a common practice of all well developed humans.

This is a one day review and rough:

Proves that you don't need the Bible to be a Bible scholar:

1Tim. 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: [hypocrite of Scribes and Pharisees
Jesus identified as speakers, singers and instrument players.]
1Tim. 1:6 From which some having swerved have tu
understanding neither what they say,
nor whereof they affirm.

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and
vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Titus 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped,
who subvert whole houses,teaching things which they ought not,
for filthy lucres sake.

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Ken Sublett
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The FALSE views the scholars teach.

December 11 2008, 4:14 PM 

Lee speaking for the "scholarly" lies that the Campbells wanted to FELLOWSHIP the denominations says:Thomas Campbell argued in the D & A that nothing could be made a test of fellowship that didn't have a "thus saith the Lord" behind it. This doesn't necessarily exclude, in my view, churches adopting practices or traditions not specifically commanded in the NT (CoCs do this all the time anyway), as the D & A is usually interpreted to forbid, but only means such things cannot be made into terms of communion.

The Declaration and Address specificially does not speak of DENOMINATIONS but of INDIVIDUALS: It says NOTHING about tests of fellowship but of INDIVIDUALS judging INDIVIDUALS for the private opinions they hold. Campbell writes under the premise that the SECTS limited DENOMINATIONAL PARTICIPATION based on their personal opinions for which they had no express authority. As a Calvinists who watched the State Presbyterians of Scotland ADOPT the use of instruments which SPLIT the group into MANY sects, Thomas Campbell can be represented by dozens of his fellow Biblical Presbyterians who wrote extensively on the use of instruments. The BASIS was making a test of fellowship DENOMINATIONALLY on something not SPECIFICIALLY commanded in the Bible.

FROM the series of events which have taken place in the Churches for many years past, especially in this Western country, as well as from what we know in general of the present state of things in the Christian world, we are persuaded

that it is high time for us not only to think, but also to act, for ourselves;
to see with our own eyes,
and to take all our measures
directly and immediately from the Divine standard;
to this alone we feel ourselves Divinely bound to be conformed,
as by this alone WE must be judged.

We are also persuaded that as no man can be judged for his brother,
so no man can judge for his brother;
every man must be allowed to judge for himself,
as every man must bear his own judgment-
-must give account of himself to God.

From reading 101a we understand that those LEAVING the EXCLUSIVE sects must not IMPOSE anything which is not from the "divine standard."

A. Because the OTHERS are the EXCLUSIVIE Sects even when DENOUNCING INSTRUMENTS through all of Campbell's experience, they ALSO are bound by the Divine Word.

B. His standard was that they should INCLUDE only what is commanded in the Divine Standard.

C. We are also of opinion that as the Divine word is equally binding upon all,
so all lie under an equal obligation to be bound by it,
and it alone; and not by any human interpretation of it;

D. Because it was the SECTS whom he identified as JUDGING and EXCLUSIVE, they do not have any right to judge those who THINK FOR THEMSELVES from the DIVINE STANDARD

E. Those denominational groups who excluded both Thomas and Alexander because of THEIR THEACINGS from the Bible, have NO RIGHT to exclude them unless the REFORMERS practices VIOLATE specific CENI.

and that, therefore, no man has a right to judge his brother,
except in so far as he manifestly violates the express letter of the law.

The Declaration and Address INCLUDES those who AGREE with the Declaration and Address: it would be beyond the pale to think that the Campbells intended to FELLOWSHIP exactly those they were ABANDONING because they DID NOT follow Biblical standards and JUDGED those who followed the Bible rather than their CREEDS.

V. That this Society, formed for the sole purpose of promoting simple evangelical Christianity,
shall, to the utmost of its power, countenance and support such ministers,

Countenance means: to extend approval or toleration to : sanction

and such only,
as exhibit a manifest conformity to the original standard in conversation and doctrine, in zeal and diligence;

only such as reduce to practice that simple original form of Christianity,
expressly EXHIBITED upon the sacred page;

Campbell EXPLICITELY and LOUDLY said that he WOULD NOT FELLOWSHIP those who did not

reduce to practice that simple original form of Christianity,
expressly EXHIBITED upon the sacred page;

He would NOT support those who did not follow the EXPRESS Word of God:

Support means a (1): to promote the interests or cause of (2): to uphold or defend as valid or right

Campbell said that he would NOT extend approval, tolerate, sanction or support those who DO NOT trust the Word for out faith and practice.

Lee can you grasp that? You need to throw away your "scholarly" junk and read the truth.

The Reformers absolutely followed the CENI principle.

without attempting to inculcate
anything of human authority,
of private opinion, or inventions of men,
as having any place in the constitution, faith, or worship, of the Christian Church,
or anything as matter of Christian faith or duty,

for which there can not be expressly produced a "Thus saith the Lord,
either in express terms,
or by approved precedent.

I worry about people who twist that to say that the Campbells intended to INCLUDE those who did not agree to NOT ATTEMPTING to Inclucate anything not SPECIFICIALLY commanded.

The following statement makes me wonder if you have ever read the Bible: assuredly ALL recorded historical scholars and founders of denominations KNEW that God uses the INSTRUMENT as a MARK of those who told God to shut His Face. That needs no proving.

To be consistent with his own views, he would have had to agree that the use or non-use of IM was a matter of opinion, as Scripture nowhere addresses the issue.

If this was REMOTELY true, then Campbell would not INCLUCATE anything of HUMAN AUTHORITY. If he would not INCLUCATE then he would not SUPPORT instruments.

If the Bible DOES NOT speak of instruments tnen YOU are judging others and INCLUCATING human opinion which is WILL WORSHIP.

But, literacy 101a knows that MUSIC is sourced from Satan or Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute, warriors, sacrificial exorcists, prostitutes and Sodomites

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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