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Great Examples of Clapping in the “WORSHIP Assembly”

May 12 2008 at 11:28 PM
Donnie Cruz  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 68.19.253.220

I almost entitled this thread: “Rhythmic Handclapping in Worship for Dummies.” Or, “Rhythmic Handclapping in Worship Made Easy.” But, no, since several passages from the Scripture are quoted—and they’re not fabricated guidelines.

Notice that “sin” or “sinful” is not ascribed to handclapping itself. So, what’s the big deal? When does it become an issue or a problem (or possibly “sinful”) especially when it was not a PRE-EXISTING condition within the congregation? [This reminds me of certain insurance policies—Is the pre-existing condition (or illness) covered?]

  • II Kings 11—[ 11] And the guard stood, every man with his weapons in his hand, round about the king, from the right corner of the temple to the left corner of the temple, along by the altar and the temple. [12] And he brought forth the king's son, and put the crown upon him, and gave him the testimony; and they made him king, and anointed him; and they clapped their hands, and said, God save the king. [13] And when Athaliah heard the noise of the guard and of the people, she came to the people into the temple of the LORD. [14] And when she looked, behold, the king stood by a pillar, as the manner was, and the princes and the trumpeters by the king, and all the people of the land rejoiced, and blew with trumpets: and Athaliah rent her clothes, and cried, Treason, Treason.

  • Job 27—[19] The rich man shall lie down, but he shall not be gathered: he openeth his eyes, and he is not. [20] Terrors take hold on him as waters, a tempest stealeth him away in the night. [21] The east wind carrieth him away, and he departeth: and as a storm hurleth him out of his place. [22] For God shall cast upon him, and not spare: he would fain flee out of his hand. [23] Men shall clap their hands at him, and shall hiss him out of his place.

  • Job 34—[37] For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

  • Psalms 98—[7] Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. [8] Let the floods clap their hands: let the hills be joyful together….

  • Isaiah 55—[12] For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands.

  • Lament. 2—[15] All that pass by clap their hands at thee; they hiss and wag their head at the daughter of Jerusalem, saying, Is this the city that men call The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth? [16] All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it.

  • Ezekiel 25—[5] And I will make Rabbah a stable for camels, and the Ammonites a couchingplace for flocks: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. [6] For thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast clapped thine hands, and stamped with the feet, and rejoiced in heart with all thy despite against the land of Israel; [7] Behold, therefore I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and will deliver thee for a spoil to the heathen; and I will cut thee off from the people, and I will cause thee to perish out of the countries: I will destroy thee; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.

  • Nahum 3—[18] Thy shepherds slumber, O king of Assyria: thy nobles shall dwell in the dust: thy people is scattered upon the mountains, and no man gathereth them. [19] There is no healing of thy bruise; thy wound is grievous: all that hear the bruit of thee shall clap the hands over thee: for upon whom hath not thy wickedness passed continually?

Sorry, there is not a single example of congregational worship clapping found in the New Testament. Even the word “clap” is nowhere to be found in the New Testament.

Donnie

 
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AuthorReply
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
65.1.97.214

Re: Great Examples of Clapping in the “WORSHIP Assembly”

May 14 2008, 9:49 AM 

Donnie wrote: "Sorry, there is not a single example of congregational worship clapping found in the New Testament. Even the word 'clap' is nowhere to be found in the New Testament."

That doesn't really matter, because when the New Testament doesn't authorize something in worship, people determined to have their own way will simply turn to the Old Testament or some other source to "justify" their worship practices. If the New Testament doesn't mention clapping in worship yet the Old Testament does, then by all means, the Old Testament wins out. If the New Testament doesn't authorize musical instruments in worship on earth yet the Old Testament does, then by all means, the Old Testament wins out.

In the postmodern age, "Christianity" has become a selective, pick-and-choose, throw-out-what-you-don't-like, invent-concoct-fabricate-and-add-what-you-do-like "religion."

 
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Anonymous
(Login wordkeeper)
74.140.247.237

Re: Great Examples of Clapping in the “WORSHIP Assembly”

May 14 2008, 9:52 PM 

Naturally I have a different perspective on the Old Testament-New Testament debate. I firmly believe that the churches of Christ are very mistaken when discrediting the Old testament. The line I have heard for many years is that the Old testament has been supersceded by the New testament. And the only use for the Old Testament is for a few good stories about people of faith.

I cannot find any passage that supports this position. I have read the New Testament through many times any the only thing that comes close to this position is where Paul talks about Christ being the fulfillment of the law and we are now have a relationship with God through the Spirit (Romans chapter 7).

If a Jew is trying to have a relationship with the Holy Father through observance of Torah apart from Jesus Christ then, there is no hope for that person. Nowhere does the New Testament state the the WHOLE Old Testament is irrelevent. In fact, Jesus was an observant Jew obedient to the law as was the Apostle Paul. In fact, in Acts 21 when Paul arrives in Jerusalem he participates in an Old Testament ritual !!

The Old Testament, including Torah, has value to being an obedient child of God. A friend of mine asked me on my opinion on whether christians should get tatoos. There is no mention of this in the New Testament. But, there is a scripture, Numbers 19:28 that expressly forbids getting a tatoo. If this is God's feelings on the matter and it is so important to him to mention it in his laws I would have to believe that his feelings wouldn't change and that is how God feels about it today. For members in the churches of Christ it puts them in a difficult position to address this issue honestly and truthfully without reference to Torah and whether Torah is relevant to Christians today.

Then if the is admittance to the relavency to Torah for christians today, it opens the door to a whole lot of other issues that are sacred to the churches of Christ.

 
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Still looking
(no login)
216.135.11.18

Re: Great Examples of Clapping in the “WORSHIP Assembly”

May 15 2008, 5:08 PM 

Funny.......in my bible the book of Numbers chapter 19 ends with verse 22.

If we live by the whole Bible, should we not eat pork....should women cover their head in church????

 
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harry
(Login wordkeeper)
74.140.247.237

Re: Great Examples of Clapping in the “WORSHIP Assembly”

May 15 2008, 9:40 PM 

Woops, Leviticus 19:28.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
69.19.14.31

LAW added as CURSE: not our PATTERNISM

May 15 2008, 9:48 PM 

Naturally I have a different perspective on the Old Testament-New Testament debate. I firmly believe that the churches of Christ are very mistaken when discrediting the Old testament. The line I have heard for many years is that the Old testament has been supersceded by the New testament. And the only use for the Old Testament is for a few good stories about people of faith.

I cannot find any passage that supports this position. I have read the New Testament through many times any the only thing that comes close to this position is where Paul talks about Christ being the fulfillment of the law and we are now have a relationship with God through the Spirit (Romans chapter 7).


You are absolutely correct, but because our Titanic is adrift with the ballet dancer at the helm is no reason to trust that we will not (have not) aimed at and hit a few icebergs. Because of the New Testament Church syndrome we have grown up with no "know" and no "need to know" the story line of the Old Testament. From Genesis to Revelation there are TWO THREADS, TWO SONS, TWO TRIBES and two views of God. From the sin of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai until people turn or convert or are baptized into Christ (2 Cor 3) people were blinded and unable to read black text on white paper. God ABANDONED the people led by the "mixed multitude" which came out of Egypt to RETURN to the worship of the Starry Host instead of the GOD of the host. There is NOTHING in that system which was ever approved but was IMPOSED as the NATIONAL system. The Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness were for the FAITHFUL Israelites. The command was to assembly on the REST day to read and rehearse the Word. The synagogue existed for the FAITHFUL virtually without change as a school of the Word.

Galatians 3 puts us BACK under the Abrahamic Covenant and the CURSE of the LAW to keep the VIPERS off the backs of people SHOULD NOT be needed.

The MIXED MULTITUDE were probably Edomites and thus not able to be baptized as a RACE OF VIPERS. Peter commanded that we save OURSELVES from that CROOKED generation. That word specificially identifies the pagan use of MUSIC to deceive people to fleece them. Thus, Nehemiah and most prophets led by the Spirit OF Christ identified that RACE as robbers and PARASITES (a synonym for a religious musician.)

It is never too late to quit paying for sermonizing the Word and become DISCIPLES which, like Electricians, come to their apprentice one at a time. Here is a short summary which I have posted in a Review of Terry Rush's mishandling of facts.

http://www.piney.com/Terry.Rush.Review.html>

Sorry if some of these images get too big.











    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 72.154.212.203 on May 16, 2008 2:37 PM


 
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