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Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

What's a typo?

September 14 2010, 12:58 PM 

There's a difference between someone's "typo" and someone who misspells "there, their, they're, affect, effect, whose, who's, its, it's, etc." Did you notice "New Testament" was not a typo?

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.43.167

Typo= Mistake

September 14 2010, 1:15 PM 

I never called it a misspelled word. I agree it was a typo and a mistake. happy.gif


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.142.13

Re: What's a typo?

September 14 2010, 2:02 PM 

Rocnar (rancor) must be deliberately looking to pick a fight. That's the act of a "troll." I usually don't correct people's minor typos unless the typo could convy a wrong meaning. I DO correct people's misspellings; for example, I've seen "epitome" completely butchered as "epitamy" (ring a bell, Dave?) and "inseparable" completely butchered as "inseparateable" (ring a bell, Walt?). Maybe it would be better if rancor remained in the Special Viper's Den where he is more comfortable. happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.149.130.36

Re: What's a typo?

September 14 2010, 3:52 PM 

Maybe rancor can find another typo in my last post. Did I put it there for him to discover? That'll be something for him to gnaw on.

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.43.167

Suggested Remedial Training

September 14 2010, 3:58 PM 

Dr. Crump, perhaps a class in "proofreading 101a" would help you in your dilemma. After all, you are "The English Cop".

Maybe this lession will be good for you. Maybe you will not be so quick to "look down your nose" at people.

I will not respond to your name calling. I think it is quite childish and telling about your state of mind.

Dr. Crump, I think we are done here.

 
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Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.51.96

Off Topic Post / Goodbye

September 14 2010, 7:02 PM 

After FS closed down, I have received an email everytime Dr. Crump has posted on CM. It will be a copy of Dr. Crumps recent post. The email address contains the word "cootum". Sometimes the email had comments about Dr. Crumps post. I felt at first this email was from Dr. Crump, however I am not sure that is the case. In fact, I no longer believe the email is from Dr. Crump.

I confess that I have messed with Dr. Crump somewhat on my own. Who could resist? Howevever, I have decided to block the email and not be bothered by this email anymore.

Maybe someone thought it would be funny to fool with me and encourage me to post at CM. I have no bad feelings for anyone. Maybe I was the stupid one. I did exchange email addresses with some people at FS, Dr. Crump was not one of them.

I wish everyone the very best (including Dr. Crump) and I can truly say I have learned some things on this forum. I may check in every once in a while but I will no longer post. God Bless you all.

Rocnar


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.154.17

Re: Suggested Remedial Training

September 14 2010, 8:17 PM 

What name-calling? That "rocnar" is an anagram for "rancor" but he wants to play childish games and be known with the scrambled name of "rocnar"? Please, give us a break. BTW, "name-calling" is not two separate words; it's a hyphenated word. Rancor mentioned "remedial training." That's funny, because a remedial course in how to use the dictionary would help rancor with his word dilemma. Sometimes rancor can post some really funny material. But I'll tell him a little secret: Concerned Members is not an audition site for Comedy Central. happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.154.17

Re: Suggested Remedial Training

September 14 2010, 8:31 PM 

Perhaps rancor objects to his having fit the description of a "troll." Definition of troll as used here: noun slang computing a person who submits deliberately inflammatory articles to an internet discussion (source: dictionary.com). Rancor tried to start an argument by making a mountain out of a simple typo. Only a troll would do that. So if the shoe fits... happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.154.17

Re: Off Topic Post / Goodbye

September 14 2010, 9:09 PM 

For the record, I never sent rancor/rocnar any emails.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.154.17

Re: Off Topic Post / Goodbye

September 14 2010, 9:21 PM 

Since rocnar/rancor has vowed to leave (his choice), here's a parting thought about name-calling: When Jesus referred to the Pharisees as "hypocrites" and "generation of vipers," was that name-calling, or was it more like hitting the nail right on the head? If someone "messes" with another person on the Internet and deliberately posts inflammatory comments or material designed to start a verbal fight or argument, that person is accurately labeled a TROLL. That hits the nail on the head. happy.gif

 
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Zac
(no login)
205.143.219.90

Name Calling

September 14 2010, 11:00 PM 

There is a difference in the name-calling that Jesus did, and the name calling you're doing. Jesus did it to change the hearts of those He was calling a name. You do it to hurt the heart, to demean, and to break down. Jesus would never insult someone in this way. In my interpretation He always had the mind and heart of eternal thinking. In other words, His words were to help save this persons soul. What you are doing is wrong.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.153.63

RE: Name-Calling

September 15 2010, 8:53 AM 

Once again, "name-calling" is not two, separate words. It is a hyphenated word. Dictionary, dictionary! Don't ever assume that labeling someone a troll is designed to "hurt." If someone posts a deliberately inflammatory message designed to smear someone or to incite an argument, THAT person is the one who desires to hurt others and cause trouble. THAT person is appropriately labeled a troll. Trolls should be the targets for strong rebuke. But in this postmodern age, those who do evil are praised, and those who preach the Truth are vilified. Thus endeth the lesson.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.120.200

Zac

September 15 2010, 6:50 PM 

Don't expect anything of substance from William Crump.
Just don't, and you will not be dissapointed.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.219.124

Re: Zac

September 15 2010, 9:49 PM 

We haven't seen anything of substance from Dave, either, just a lot of smears and insults. But, that's typical of Dave.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
207.65.228.117

Re: "The Wall of Shame"

September 6 2009, 6:57 PM 

The "authority" people use for using any form of music in the "school of the Bible" is David and the Levites. What most preachers missed is that it was because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai that God abandoned the NATIONAL system to the tribe of LEVI and the SPIRITUAL PEOPLE attended The Church of Christ in the wilderness QUARANTINED from what was pagan and evil

Gen. 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations.
Gen. 49:6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly,
......mine honour, be not thou united:
......for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.
Gen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel:
......I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel.


It is a fact that after the last blasphemy which brought on the conditional sentence at Mount Sinai was carried out, was by David. David had sinned so that he could not go to the designated place of the Tabernacle. Rather than kill David, God gave him a Jebusite High Place where he built an ALTERNATIVE tabernacle. He was now 100% one of those kings God gave in His anger. Samuel records God's abandonment of the national system to a NATIONAL (Canaanite, Egyptian, Babylonian etal) Civil-Military-Clergy complex to carry out the captivity and death sentence. This was not irrational because the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai caused God to ABANDON the Civil-Military-Clergy over to worship the starry host. Christ PRESERVED the Spiritual Thread from that with the Church of Christ which was to Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word of God and was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing. THAT is the patternism of Christ and that never changed.

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, and the STAR of your god Remphan,
......figures which ye made to worship them:
......and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

That is where the Babylon mother of harlots resurfaces in the END TIME using "lusted after fruits" or performing the roles of women as speakers, singers and instrument players John called SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world.

Stephen (Acts 7 you missed in sermons, songs and classes) says that:

God gave (by Grace) David a TENT which permitted the "worship of the starry host"
But, David built God a HOUSE
But, God does not LIVE IN nor is worshipped in houses built by human hands: God is worshipped IN the place of the human spirit which ALL forms of "music" intends to shut down so that you watch THE EFFEMINATE performance and therefore worship THEM.

David was the king of the Civil-Military-Clergy complex worshiping the STARS and SERPENTS: Christ in the prophets (for the Spiritual thread) calls the robbers and parasites. Not surprising since God WARNED the elders when they demanded a SENIOR PASTOR to rule them it would be terminal.

"David succeeded in transferring the traditions of the Confederacy to Jerusalem: the Ark, the Tabernacle, the priesthood. But in this change something happened to the character of 'Israel,' to the structure of the community.

No longer was Israel, the people of God, bound together on the basis of covenant allegiance to Yahweh at the central sanctuary;

Israel was now bound together politically, on the basis of a contract between king and people (II Sam. 5:3). As citizens of the state, the people of Israel owed allegiance to a king who could take a census, exact forced labor, and require submission to his power...

As Israel became a state modeled after other oriental monarchies, more and more she lost her distinctive character and faced the danger of being swallowed up in the power struggle and cultural stream of the Near East." (Anderson, p. 188)
.

That is repeated in the TURF BATTLES by preachers and elders which makes church--like the monarchy--a 100% political institute with no connection to the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Christ in the wilderness where Christ OUTLAWED vocal or instrumental rejoicing.

"There is incontrovertible archaeological evidence for the antiquity of the musical guilds themselves. The Phoenicians (Canaanites) outshone their contemporaries in music, and the Israelites were early influenced by them.

......Musical guilds of the Hebrews may be traced back in some instances,
......to old Canaanite families whose designations, such as Hemen the Ezrahite (I Chron. 2:6),
......became a part of later Hebrew family names." (Unger, Merril, Archaeology and the Old Testament, Zondervan, P. 216-7)

"The trained musicians which eventually appear around the time of David and Solomon mark a distinctive change in the history of Jewish music. Before this time much of the music was made by women." (Zondervan Pict., Music p. 313).


"In an inscription from Cyprus, in one from Rhodes and in several from around the district of Carthage, [The Source of Molech Worship]

there are references to important personages who bear the title Mqm'lm which we can translate as AROUSERS of the god.'" (de Vaux, Roland, The Bible and the Ancient Near East, Doubleday, p. 247).

"We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain LEVITES, called me'oreim, 'AROUSERS,' sang (every morning?) this verse from "Ps 44:23: "Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever." The Talmud tells us that John Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom." (Roland de Vaux, p. 247).


So, you see, the Levites cursed by their father, were the PRIESTS offering sacrifices to MOLOCH: especially in Tyre and Jerusalem whose temple was built by the same architect. Just AFTER Hezekiah's plague stopping BURNT OFFERING where the INSTRUMENTS were played and which GOD DID NOT COMMAND, the burning of infants was restoredd.


[linked image]

The Levites cannot be used as authority for "musical worship teams": Christ reserved that as a MARK. They were an old guild and that is why Molech worship or burning infants to the beat of all kinds of loud singing and playing instruments was common in Jerusalem. In Isaiah 30 Christ in Spirit uses this Molech worship as a PATTERNISM of the MARKS and SOUNDS of God driving His old Assyrian/Egytian enemies into HELL. The PROOF that God is carrying out the final judgment causing all of the squirming and clapping will be be SINGING and playing wind, string and percussion instruments. Isaiah 30. This is repeated for the end time (now) when the church of the Babylon mother of Harlots (Inanna, Lucifer, Zoe) (Rev 17) uses lusted after fruits (same ones in Amos) as SELF-speakers, singers and instrument players whom John calls SORCERERS. Those with the DOGS (Cynic howlers), liars and are also destined to the Lake of Fire. We are to see the Lying Wonders of deluded people before Jesus returns as a MARK and SOUND to flee Babylon.

If you care enough to quit singing and clapping and become A School of Christ through the Bible, you will discover that the GUILD NAMES, the names of the instruments, the term prophesying, the dress, the dance and the style of singing (falsetto or a cappella or CCM) were all done PLAYING THE PART OF WOMEN.

"Before the establishment of the kingdom under Saul, it was the women who, as in every young civilization, played a major part in the performance of music. Such figures as Miriam, Deborah, Jephtha's daughter, and the women hailing the young hero David have become almost archetypes of female musicians. Characteristic of all these cases is the familiar picture of a female chorus, dancing and singing, accompanied by frenzied drum-beating [hand clapping]. This is the scene known to the entire Near East, and not even the severe rule of Islam could wholly suppress this age-old practice." (Int Dict of the Bible, Music, p. 457).

Including the Levites who "performed the role of women", the Babylonian Tablets, all of the contemporaneous literature, the Classics and church fathers PROVE that when you turn from SPEAK or SAY to SING or PLAY it is both the mark and producer of the effeminate. The Zoe Group had to bring in an expert to assure them that the Platonic Fallacy was not true.

SO, it is a fact that the Ark Moving slaughter and Vileness was the MARK of the first use in the MONARCHY used by almost all people who impose any kind of performance music. The FIRST folly was in trying to involve EVERYONE who could get there. In the second fearful ATTEMPT only those connected with the Civil-Military-Clergy and their camp followers who were involved. It was PERMITTED only because it was the role of the old LEVI tribe already abandoned to worship the starry host. AFTER God has removed His candlestick (seven spirits of Divine knowledge) THEN you are in fact COMMANDED to impose worship teams with or without instruments: you have lost your right to choose.

David as a King to carry out the worship of the Starry Host did not follow the Law of Moses intended to protect the weak from the strong but ENSLAVED the weak and stole their property and gave it to his MINISTERY TEAM including the Levites where in the Greek sacrificial system they were called PARASITES.

http://www.piney.com/MuDavAdd.html

Yes, instruments or any musical form is DIRECTLY COMMANDED for any church which has replaced the TEACHER with sermonizers and "made the lambs dumb before the slaughter" which was THE purpose of EXORCISM noise in the killing of innocent animals to eat their flesh and to fleece the dumb. In fact, you probably DO NOT HAVE ANY CHOICE in the matter just as the Israelites were ABANDONED to worship the starry hosts. These stars always carried the meaning of performing STARS.

Since a musical instrument is a "machine for doing hard work mostly in making war and creating the shock and awe of religious rituals" (Outlawed by Jesus as the laded burden) is the ONLY meaning of LEGALISM<.b> in the Greek literature. That was always teaching the LAWS of Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) by the muses or musicians in Revelation 18 identified as dirty adulteresses and SORCERS who burn in hell. That is why LEGALISTS always point the gun in the wrong direction.

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

John's Wall Of Shame Is A Shame

October 9 2010, 12:12 AM 

I think the members of this site and the readers of this site should know about John's shame. How about some personal contrition and humility and grace toward others? He who has sinned much you would think would love much, not be self-righteous and judgmental toward other sinners and churches.

-Sonny

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.141.226

Re: John's Wall Of Shame Is A Shame

October 9 2010, 3:03 PM 

Those who hide in various forms of anonymity yet who smear other people have no credibility. They are nothing but vicious gossippers.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

John is presenting facts, not lies

October 9 2010, 3:34 PM 

Sonny,

I think there are many readers of this site who are opposed to progressive activities of change agents in the brotherhood. The change agents' influences in the church remind me of the liberal agenda of politicians in the government. Just as the liberals in politics have very little or no regard for the U.S. Constitution, the change agents have very little or no regard for their heritage.

More and more of the citizenry is awakening to the fact that "the change we can believe in" has been used as a means to transform this nation to its downfall. More and more people realize that this trend must be obstructed before it's too late.

John Waddey is correct in presenting facts about what's going on in churches of Christ. The brotherhood needs to be informed. Readers of this site need to be informed.

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Point Taken, But

October 9 2010, 4:50 PM 


I wonder if a Rubel Shelly or a Max Lucado were committing adultery if this site would believe it were a personal matter that does not diminish their credibility to teach others and point out the "error" of others.

Here is my main point for John: If he believes IM is wrong, can he at least be forthcoming of the possibility of God's grace toward acapella and instrumental worshippers alike whether it be a difference in worship or life, such as adultery, or any sin.

Again, like I stated in another post you may or may not read, I do not personally practice IM and have no personal axe to grind about it. I just want to warn against self-righteousness and judging others without mercy, which the Bible also speaks against.

-Sonny


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Oct 12, 2010 1:40 AM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Point Taken, But

October 11 2010, 2:36 AM 


Do not "wonder" any longer. This site will not waste a single minute researching to find out if Rubel Shelly or Max Lucado has been "for several years simultaneously practicing adultery" while on mission -- as "change agents" -- to change, transform, reorganize or restructure the church that Jesus Christ established.

John has the New Testament to support him in pointing out the fallacy in the argument for operating mechanical music devices in the assembly of New Testament saints. The change agents do not.

You do not personally practice IM? I do. I have barely learned to play the piano at home, but I do personally practice IM. Sometimes I learn new hymns by playing the piano. but I do not transport the heavy thing to the assembly and perform for the congregation. happy.gif


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Oct 12, 2010 1:45 AM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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