Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Part Three

February 19 2009, 2:03 PM 


1Sam. 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.

QUANDRY: whether to post what is clearly said about this event or post the Bible's own definition which repudiates it? I think I will post your verse first and then look backward. Perhaps few are aware that God ABANDONED the Monarchy and whole sacrificial system and warned that the kings would steal their property, put them into slavery and lead them into captivity and death. Saul and David were military leaders which God PERMITTED who would have to slaughter all of their enemies by their own CUNNING. Back in the wilderness God said that He would chase them out with wasps or hornets but Israel rejected the GRACE and wanted to do it themselves.

When Saul "prophesied" he was despised by the WARRIORS because he acted like a raving mad man and effeminate. Furthermore, he took the glory for winning battles for himself and even built a monument to himself. The PURPOSE of the king was to DESTROY all of the enemies of the invading Israelites. He was not a spiritual leader. Saul tried to bluff the Philistines by claiming that he had "god" in the Ark but the Philistines were not intimidated. Therefore, Saul's rejection was based on his inability to be a MILITARY LEADER.

1Sam. 15:34 Then Samuel went to Ramah; and Saul went up to his house to Gibeah of Saul.
1Sam. 15:35 And Samuel came no more to see Saul until the day of his death:
.........nevertheless Samuel mourned for Saul:
.........and the LORD repented [grieved] that he had made Saul king over Israel.
1Sam. 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel,
.........How long wilt thou mourn for Saul,
.........seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel?
.........fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite:
.........for I have provided me a king among his sons.

1Sam. 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul,
.........and an evil spirit from the LORD/ troubled [frightened]him.

When the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul He was through with him and told Samuel to "forget Saul." Therefore, God did not seek anyone to heal Saul's madness which was a STRONG DELUSION. Rather:

1Sam. 16:15 And Sauls servants said unto him,
.........Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

HOW TO DO AN END RUN AROUND GOD. All of those who lie about the Word in order to IMPOSE instruments have also declared them the dominant pastor or "a king set over us" and the elders have been demonted to "shepherds only" and the deacons often have been replaced by women and hired hands. Therefore, they REPEAT the patternism.

1. Point? If God sends you a "spirit" that tells you to lie about all of the "instrument" passages to divide the "nation" then what do you do?
2. In the few examples of those who have already split their churches and families over "praise singing" "an EVIL spirit has been allowed to make them delusional."
3. They carry out their purpose and lie about not using instruments on Sunday and IMPOSE instruments.
4. The FACT of FORCING music is THEIR way of dispelling the evil spirit (well documented in the Book of Enoch) and the fall from grace at Mount Sinai.
5. When they PLAY they soothe (soothsayers) their derangement-delusions but only for the moment.


1Sam. 16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man,
.........who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass,
.........when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well

You can TRIUMPH OVER God by the use of music: that is the SAME concept where God outlawed the ALARM or TRIUMPH OVER during "church in the wilderness." The CHANGELINGS boast about "upsetting people's comfort zones." Once they have survived hearing the musical ministers they will grumble but soon get over it.

The word PLAY is NAGAN 5059 which is the same as hChalal (h2490) meaning to play the flute, steal one's inheritance (throne), pollute or prostitute. h1984 is David's praise word meaning to "makes self vile" which is the root for LUCIFER.

1Sam. 16:18 Then answered one of the servants, and said,
.........Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite,
.........that is cunning in playing, and a mighty valiant

.........[gibbowr warrior, tyriant, champion, act insolently: just what God prophesied], and a man of war,
.........and prudent in matters, and a comely person, and the LORD is with him.
1Sam. 16:21 And David came to Saul, and stood before him:
.........and he loved him greatly; and he became his armourbearer.

David would be a WARRIOR and not a worship leader.

Why shouldn't we believe that David was put in place to further drive Saul into and out of madness as a way to further discredit Saul in preparation for David to assume the throne. Later, the musical girls TAUNTED Saul with music to drive him further into madness

1Sam. 18:9 And Saul eyed David from that day and forward.
1Sam. 18:10 And it came to pass on the morrow,
.........that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul,
.........and he prophesied in the midst of the house:
.........and David played with his hand, as at other times:
.........and there was a javelin in Sauls hand.
1Sam. 18:11 And Saul cast the javelin;
.........for he said, I will smite [strike, clap] David even to the wall with it.
.........And David avoided out of his presence twice.

This is the same charismatic ecstacy which was the ONLY PERSON used in paganism: by driving people to prophesy or become insane they believed that the spirits were holy. That is what happens when the music begans the ROCK beat (that "F" word from voodoo]

He prophesied in the midst of the house. He was beside himself; made prayers, supplications, and incoherent imprecations: 'God preserve my life,' 'Destroy my enemies,' or such like prayers, might frequently escape from him in his agitated state. The Arabic intimates that he was actually possessed by an evil spirit, and that through it he uttered a sort of demoniacal predictions." (Clark, 1 Sam 18, p. 270).

"In ancient times, says Justin, kings used a spear instead of a diadem: And as spears were the emblems of supreme power, hence they were reputed as attributes of the Divinity, and were worshipped as representatives of the gods." (Adam Clark, 1 Sam. 18, p. 270)

"We find demon-possessed Saul 'acting like a prophet' by becoming semi-conscious and immobile when attempting to apprehend David at Ramah..The context of this passage makes it clear that Saul's behavior was not the ordinary behavior of the true prophets of God." (Christianity Today, March 12,

"'Played the prophet,' viz., by gestures and demeanor.";Driver. "Rather, he raved."--Keil. "The word 'prophesy' describes an ecstatic condition due to supernatural influence, good or evil; the result in the one case being prophetic inspiration or religious enthusiasm, in the other raving madness."--Cambridge Bible. 1971, p. 541)

Heredotus writes: Now the Scythians are wont to reproach the Greeks with their Bacchanal rage, and to say that it is not reasonable to imagine there is a god who impels men to madness. No sooner, therefore, was Scylas initiated in the Bacchic mysteries than one of the Borysthenites went and carried the news to the Scythians

You Scyths laugh at us" he said, "because we rave when the god seizes us.
But now our god has seized upon your king, who raves like us, and is maddened by the influence.
If you think I do not tell you true, come with me, and I will show him to you."

The chiefs of the Scythians went with the man accordingly, and the Borysthenite, conducting them into the city, placed them secretly on one of the towers.
Presently Scylas passed by with the band of revellers, raving like the rest, and was seen by the watchers.
Regarding the matter as a very great misfortune they instantly departed, and came and told the army what they had witnessed.

I have to tell you again that Jesus had nasty words for scribes and this is one of the accounts of the KING'S SCRIBE having to do 100% with military matters. The nation needed a strong tyrant instead of an effeminate madman to lead the CIVIL-MILITARY thread. On the large other hand, ALL of the spiritual truth is attributed only to the prophets: Jesus credits Abraham, Moses and the Prophets as speaking by the Spirit of Christ.



Cunning. 2803. chashab, khaw-shab´; a primitive root; properly, to plait or interpenetrate, i.e. (literally) to weave or (gen.) to fabricate; figuratively, to plot or contrive (usually in a malicious sense); hence (from the mental effort) to think, regard, value, compute:(make) account (of), conceive, consider, count, cunning (man, work, workman), devise, esteem, find out, forecast, hold, imagine, impute, invent, be like, mean, purpose, reckon(-ing be made), regard, think.

[linked image]

Weaving or Plaiting versed together to make songs was always done to fool the foolish: no one ever "made music" who did not intend to seduce people literally or to steal their "tithes and offerings. In the Gree:

Plek-ô , Pi.O. 6.86, etc.: fut. Twisted rope, basket work
II. metaph., devise, contrive, mostly of tortuous means, E.Ion826

.........[825] And the god has not deceived you; your husband deceived you long ago, rearing his son,
.............and wove such plots;
.............if convicted, he might ascribe it to the god . . .
.............he was about to invest him with the rule of your land. [830]
.............And he fashioned this new name at his leisure,

2. of Poets, p. humnon, rhêmata, Pi.O.6.86 weaving songs for spearmen

There are only 50 of the BOOK of Psalms suitable for used by the Jews but there would be no SINGING in the synagogue which was a school of the Bible--only.

Many of the rest are warriors panic songs: our god can destroy your gods.

Pale (g3823) pal'-ay; from pallo, (to vibrate; another form for 906); wrestling: - / wrestle
pallô, poise, sway a missile before it is thrown, sway, brandish, she drove it furiously, swing, dash oneself, tripped on the shield-rim, quiver, leap, esp. in fear, vibrate, of strings, Pl.Phd.94c (psalloito)

Greek: Class-Euripides-Ion.html.

Strong though thy beak beyond the feather'd kind,
My bow shall reach thee. Towards the altar, see,
A swan comes sailing: elsewhere wilt thou move
Thy scarlet-tinctured foot? or from my bow
The lyre of Phoebus to thy notes attuned
Will not protect thee; farther stretch thy wings;
Go, wanton, skim along the Delian lake,
Or wilt thou steep thy melody in blood.

Look, what strange bird comes onwards; wouldst thou fix
Beneath the battlements thy straw-built nest?
My singing bow shall drive thee hence; begone,
Or to the banks of Alpheus, gulfy stream, grace
Or to the Isthmian grove; there hatch thy young;

All of my stuff is free: I don't try to control people but supply facts to those being taken captive by preachers who deliberately lie about all of the Bible and all of the historical testimony against "music" which is one of the most powerful means ofexercising MIND CONTROL which works--according to history--only among the very lowest of classes and the ignorant. Consistent with all prophecy you EXPECT that the Devil will have his ministers in all institutes of religion which are not WORD-CENTERED and powerful enemies of the dogs and wolves which always marked the perverted, musical religionists who would do ANYTHING to keep from working: even in the sacrificial altars the musicians were called PARASITES and the priests who lifted the lamb up to cut its throat was called a HERETIC.

In PART FOUR I will show that the Old and New Testament identifies all of the MONARCHY added to replace God by the "elders" was to "worship the starry host." The Bible, Jewish encyclopedia and all of the evidence proves that it was STAR WORSHIP and included SERPENT WORSHIP. As such it was a COVENANT WITH DEATH and David had too much blood on his hands even to build God a house when "God cannot be worshipped in temples made with human hands.

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

and yet Ken can't give a simple answer to a simple question

February 20 2009, 2:40 PM 

Alan's simple challenge that Ken is unable to meet: "I want to be able to open a KJV, that this site promotes as the only reliable translation, and read where Jesus says, "Do not use instrumental music in your worship service." I would also like to read where he says, "You are to have a song, a prayer, three more songs, communion, another song, the sermon, and and invitation song.""

And Ray has also asked one more simple challenge that Ken has not yet answered:

"Is Psalm 57 and Psalm 108 inspired by God?"

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Part FOUR review.

February 20 2009, 3:55 PM 

Part FOUR proves that part THREE is fact.

Let me say again: Jesus validates Abraham, Moses and the prophets. ALL of the SPIRITUAL THREAD is prophetic. The priests and Levites were imposed to bear the burden of the Tabernacle and the burden of sacrifices AFTER they fell into musical idolatry.

While modern Jews who are not Semites try to deny it, the Bible itself PROPHESIES, REVEALS AND REPUDIATES the worship under the king, priests and warriors as the ENEMY of God. The worship of the starry host because of musical idolatry was under the Levites who were of that tribe but they were also active in Egyptian religion: Miriam was a prophetess or sorcereress of Hathor. It is clear that operations at the NATIONAL (Goyim, Gentile) temple often profaned the Sabbath (a musical concept) but the SPIRITUAL THREAD knew better:

The Puritan character of the rabbinical Sabbath is shown in the aversion, deducible from some laws, to loud noises (instance Simeon ben Yona's reproof of his mother for loud talking), clapping of hands, striking with a hammer, trumpet-calls, and music ( While to some of the more ascetic rabbis any loud demonstration of joy undoubtedly approached irreverence and impiety, it may be noted that the minor reasons adduced in regard to music (lest musicians might be tempted to make or repair instruments, or the estimate of music as "labor," not "art")

If God turned the Israelites over to worship the starry host (Acts 7 etal) and Chiun was Saturn (identified often as the sun) then who can debate:

Iamblichus, an Sssyrian Neoplatonist Philosopher who determined the role of paganism in the church:

In addition to these things you remark as follows: "So also certain others of these ecstatics become entheast or inspired when they hear cymbals, drums, or some choral chant, 21 as, for example, those who are engaged in the Korybantic Rites, 22

those who are possessed at the Sabazian festival and those who are celebrating the Rites of the Divine Mother." 23 described by the Apostle Paul in the first Epistle to the Corinthians. "If," says he, "the whole assembly come together to the same place and all prattle in tongues, and common men should come in, or unbelievers, will they not say that you are raving?"

Hence he counsels that only two or three should speak in turn, and one interpret; but if nobody present is capable of this, they should keep silence, and speak only to themselves and to God: "for not of tumult is he a god, but of tranquillity." (Ovid; Fasti IV, "The attendants beat the brass, and the hoarse-sounding hides. Cymbals they strike in place of helmets, tambourines for the shields; the pipe yielded its Phrygian notes.")

There is evidently a deeper meaning in all this than is commonly apprehended.

22. The Korybantes are variously described. Their cult was identified or closely allied to that of the Kabeirian divinities, and that of the Great Mother. It was celebrated in the islands of the Aegean Sea and in Phygia. Music, dancing, processions, and ecstatic frenzy were characteristics.

23. Sabazios, Sabaoth, or Sabbat, the god of the Planet Saturn, was better known as Bacchus or Dionysos, and was also styled in Semitic countries, Iao or Yava. His worship was more or less associated and identified with that of the Great Mother, under various designations, and it was characterized by phallephoric processions, dances, mourning for the slain divinity, and the Watch Night. It came from Assyria as its peculiar symbols, the ivy or kissos, the spotted robe or Nimr, and the Thyrso, indicate. The name Zagreus the Kissos and nimr remind us of Kissaia or Asiatic Ethiopia, and the Zagros mountains occupied by the Nimr. Assyria was called "the land of Nimrod." -Amos VIII.

Again, why doubt it because God ABANDONED the national sacrificial system and the 'musicians' who PROPHESIED engaged in the practices defined above.

Thus "Bacchus was directly called upon," he says. The Sabazian worship was Sabbatic; the names Evius, or Hevius, and Luaios are identical with Hivite and Levite. The French name Louis is the Hebrew Levi;


Parasitus (parasitos, table companion). A word which among the Greeks denoted originally the priest's assistant, who, like the priest, received his support from the offerings made to the temple, in return for certain services. These services included the collection and care of supplies of corn due to the temple, assistance at certain sacrifices, and the preparation of the banquets connected with [p. 1175] certain festivals. The assistants of civil officials, who were maintained at the expense of the State, were also called parasites in many places. The word received another meaning in the Middle and New Greek comedy, where it means the hanger on, who plays the flatterer and buffoon, with a view to getting invited to dinner. The parasite was transferred as a standing character to the Roman imitations of Greek comedy, and figures largely in the plays of Plautus. Good examples of the stage parasite will be found in his Captivi Menaechmi Phormio of Terence.

If God did not command but imposed the work of the Levites BECAUSE of musical idolatry which caused Him to TURN THE OVER to worship the pagan Gods such as Molelch and Chiun (Saturn=666) and the prophets call them robbers and parasites WHY DOUBT that this is the truth.

Plutarch: what god is worshipped by the Jews: When all the company requested and earnestly begged it of him; first of all (says he), the time and manner of the greatest and most holy solemnity of the Jews is exactly agreeable to the holy rites of Bacchus; for that which they call the Fast they celebrate in the midst of the vintage, furnishing their tables with all sorts of fruits while they sit under tabernacles made of vines and ivy; and the day which immediately goes before this they call the day of Tabernacles.

Within a few days after they celebrate another feast, not darkly but openly, dedicated to Bacchus, for they have a feast amongst them called Kradephoria, from carrying palm-trees, and Thyrsophoria, when they enter into the temple carrying thyrsi.

What they do within I know not; but it is very probable that they perform the rites of Bacchus. First they have little trumpets, such as the Grecians used to have at their Bacchanalia to call upon their gods withal.

Others go before them playing upon harps, which they call Levites, whether so named from Lusius or Evius,--either word agrees with Bacchus. And I suppose that their Sabbaths have some relation to Bacchus; for even now many call the Bacchi by the name of Sabbi, and they make use of that word at the celebration of Bacchus's orgies.

And this may be discovered out of Demosthenes and Menander. Nor would it be out of place, were any one to say that the name Sabbath was given to this feast from the agitation and excitement [Greek omitted] which the priests of Bacchus display.

So in the nocturnal ceremonies of Bacchus (as the fashion is amongst us), they make use of music, and call the god's nurses [Greek omitted].
High up on the wall of their temple is a representation of the thyrsus and timbrels, which surely suits no other god than Bacchus.

In day-time you marshalled your gallant throng of bacchanals through the public streets, their heads garlanded with fennel and white poplar; and, as you went, you squeezed the fat-cheeked snakes, or brandished them above your head, now shouting your Euoi Saboi! now footing it to the measure of Hyes Attes! Attes Hyes!--saluted by all the old women with such proud titles as Master of the Ceremonies, Fugleman, Ivy-bearer, Fan-carrier; and at last receiving your recompense of tipsy-cakes, and cracknels, and currant-buns. With such rewards who would not rejoice greatly, and account himself the favorite of fortune?

That is exactly the meaning of David's PRAISE word.

[linked image] [linked image]

Therefore, when you SEE and HEAR that taking place in the pseudo-church you know that JESUS IS WINNOWING by a baptism of spirit (wind) so He can give the baptism of FIRE.

Ezekiel in chapter 8 identifies this worship in the temple and in chapter 33 identifies what Jesus called "hypocrites" as speakers, singers and instrument players.

The false teachers promoting the use of instrumental music as long as we have a good mental attitude do not grasp that first Israel and then Judah set up the worship used at Mount Sinai which asked God to let them be led like pagans and worship like pagans.

That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor,
.........and turn aside the way of the meek:
.........and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name: Amos 2:7

Profane includes both prostitution and music because they went together in pagan worship:

Chalal (h2490) khaw-lal'; a prim. root [comp. 2470]; prop. to bore, i. e. (by impl.) to wound, to dissolve; fig. to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one's word), to begin (as if by an "opening wedge"); denom. (from 2485) to play (the flute): - begin (* men began), defile, * break, defile, * eat (as common things), * first, * gather the grape thereof, * take inheritance, pipe, player on instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.

Amos 2:8 And they lay themselves down upon
.........clothes laid to pledge by every altar,
.........and they drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god.

Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near; Amos 6:3
.........That lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches,
.........and eat the lambs out of the flock,
.........and the calves out of the midst of the stall; Amos 6:4
That chant [scatter words, i.e. prate] to the sound of the viol,
.........and invent to themselves instruments of musick , like David; Amos 6:5
.........That drink wine in bowls, and anoint themselves with the chief ointments:
.........but they are not grieved for the affliction of Joseph. Amos 6:6
Therefore now shall they go captive with the first that go captive,
.........and the banquet of them that stretched themselves shall be removed. Amos 6:7


The Mirzach like the Agape was an ancient musical and perverted worship of the dead. In history when you sang the songs of a dead person you worshipped the dead. That is why the direct command to sing (?) "that which is written" because Jesus is not DEAD.

.........Mirzach (h4797) meer-zakh'; from an unused root mean. to scream; a cry, i. e. (of joy), a revel: - banquet.
.........Marzeach (h4798) mar-zay'-akh; formed like 4797; a cry, i. e. (of grief) a lamentation: - mourning.

.........For thus saith the Lord, Enter not into the house of mourning,
......... neither go to lament nor bemoan them:
.........for I have taken away my peace from this people,
............... saith the Lord, even lovingkindness and mercies. Je.16:5

"The marzeah had an extremely long history extending at least from the 14th century B.C. through the Roman period. In the 14th century B.C., it was prominently associated with the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), on the coast of Syria... The marzeah was a pagan ritual that took the form of a social and religious association... Some scholars regard the funerary marzeah as a feast for--and with--deceased ancestors (or Rephaim, a proper name in the Bible for the inhabitants of Sheol)." (King, Biblical Archaeological Review, Aug, 1988, p. 35, 35)

"These five elements are: (1) reclining or relaxing, (2) eating a meat meal, (3) singing with harp or other musical accompaniment, (4) drinking wine and (5) anointing oneself with oil." (King, p. 37).

"Worship was form more than substance; consequently, conduct in the marketplace was totally unaffected by worship in the holy place. Amos spoke from the conviction that social justice is an integral part of the Mosaic covenant, which regulates relations not only between God and people, but also among people." (King, p. 44).

"In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51).

Adam Clark on Amos

I believe that David was not authorized by the Lord to introduce that multitude of musical instruments into the Divine worship of which we read,
and I am satisfied that his conduct in this respect is most solemnly reprehended by this prophet;
and I farther believe that the use of such instruments of music, in the Christian Church,

is without the sanction and against the will of God;
that they are subversive of the spirit of true devotion, and that they are sinful.

If there was a woe to them who invented instruments of music, as did David under the law, is there no woe, no curse to them who invent them, and introduce them into the worship of God in the Christian Church?

This was also the view of the Presbyterians who wrote some of the best information repudiating the use of instruments long before the Restoration Movement.

The Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness was NOT part of the Civil-Priestly-Military complex any more than using the Marine Corp Band at the National Cathedral has anything to do because of SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers,
he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col. 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you meat,
.........or in drink,
.........or in respect of an holyday,
.........or of the new moon,
.........or of the sabbath days:
Col. 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

A shadow is NOT God's old, failed plan of salvation: the Law including the Sabbaths were imposed BECAUSE of transgression to PREVENT people from going to pagan worship services on the Sabbath considered an evil day.

A Shadow is something truly Evil:

G4639 skia skee'-ah Apparently a primary word; shade or a shadow (literally or figuratively
[darkness of error or an adumbration]):--shadow.

2. reflection, image (in a bowl of oil), Sch.Il.17.755.
3. shade of one dead, phantom, Od.10.495, A.Th.992,
of worthless things, that phantom at Delphi, . mere shadows of .
4. evil spirit, Hippiatr.130, PMasp.188.5
also, of one worn to a shadow, A.Eu.302;

Speaking of the religious ritual condemned by Amos and others we note that:

Of the prophecy of the seed of David: Jesus Christ:

Paul quotes Isaiah 28 when repudiating the "tongues"" and "singing" out of their own spirit in Corinth:

.........We have made a covenant with death, [Marzeah in Amos re wine, women and music]
.........and with hell are we at agreement;
.........when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, shall not come unto us:
.........for we have made lies our refuge,
.........and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Is. 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD,
.........Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone,
.........a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation:
.........he that believeth shall not make haste.

Make Haste: 2363. chuwsh, koosh; a primitive root; to hurry; figuratively, to be eager with excitement or enjoyment:(make) haste(-n), ready

[linked image]

Paul explained it this way:

Gal. 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
.........the one from the mount Sinai,
.........which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal. 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia,
.........and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
.........and is in bondage with her children.

Gal. 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal. 4:27 For it is written,
.........Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry,
.........thou that travailest not: for the desolate
.........hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal. 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

John who called the speakers, singers and instrument players sorcerers aqdded:

Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city,
.........which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

This COVENANT WITH DEATH is defined by AMOS and is condemned because it imitated what David planned to do for the future temple.

You cannot read Acts without knowing that

God promised David a TENT

But, Solomon built God a HOUSE

But, God is not worshipped in houses built by human hands or by the works of human hands.

In part FIVE I will look at:

I'm also curious about your thoughts on the 288 Levite musicians David employed for worship. (1 Chronicles 25:1-7)

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Psalm 57

February 20 2009, 11:31 PM 

The Bible is a library: that means that it includes all kinds of literature but not all of it is a patternism for the spiritual world. The king, kingdom, temple and clergy were part of the Temple-State which was permitted as punishment when the elders fired God. Jesus is not fond of Scribes and it was the scribes who kept a HISTORICAL record of the civil government. On the other hand, the spiritual people attended synagogue to "rest, read and rehearse" the Word of God: that never changed for one second and no one violated that common knowledge and decency until singing was added as an ACT in 373: this split the church and opened the church up to self-composed songs VIOLATING many direct commands.

This is David's Michtam or engraving or written poem: poems or songs were personal property and one's personal poetry or prayers do not constitute a commanded patternism for others. In that area, private songs were never to be used by others until the composer was dead and they became part of the "catalog."

The view throughout the Old and New Testament is that spiritual truth is delivered onlly through the prophets: Jesus acknowledged Abraham, Moses and the Prophets guided by the Spirit of Christ (1 Pet 1:11 etc.)

Most psalms are "warrior chants" and used by the military to drive the enemy into panic: the spiritual people NEVER ONCE sang congregationally with instrumental accompaniment. Therefore they are NOT inspired as PATTERNS TO BE IMITATED but to be SPOKEN to teach and admonish. We can study Psalm 137 but why do you not use it as authority for a "bashing out the heads of baby" ceremonial legalism? David said that God loved him because he was sinlessly perfect: that is the revealed statement but it is NOT inspired by the Spirit of Christ.

David was the king and would have been killed if he had gone into the Holy Place--as a type of the Body or Church of Christ--with or without his harp.
Psalm 57 is not a Mizmor and therefore not used as a "worship" song and not included in "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" which Paul commanded be SPOKEN.

Psalm 57:1 (To the chief Musician, Al-taschith, Michtam of)
(David, when he fled from Saul in the cave.)

If anyone has to run and hide in a cave then I see no reason not to take along all of the instruments you wish: David was not a worship leader that the APPROVED PATTERNISM would be to, like David always, play the instruments in private and not during the "school of the Bible" where the Spirit of Christ outlawed it for the synagogue.

BE merciful unto me, O God, be merciful unto me: for my soul trusteth in thee: yea, the shadow of thy wings will I make my refuge,
........until these calamities be overpast.
Psalm 57:2 I will cry unto God most high; unto God that performeth all things for me.
Psalm 57:3 He shall send from heaven, and save me from the reproach of him that would swallow me up. Selah.
........God shall send forth his mercy and his truth.

Scholars have noted that Selah is a pause: no one sang and played at the same time. One would recite a verse and then "signal a pause for meditation."

Psalm 57:4 My soul is among lions: and I lie even among them that are set on fire,
........even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword

Psalm 57:5 Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens; let thy glory be above all the earth.
Psalm 57:6 They have prepared a net for my steps; my soul is bowed down:
........they have digged a pit before me,
........into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves. Selah.
Psalm 57:7 My heart is fixed, O God, my heart is fixed: I will sing and give praise.
Psalm 57:8 Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early. [I will awaken the Dawn}

We might doubt that David had a literal psaltery and harp with him: if so:

"The name of psaltery entered Christian literature in the 3rd century B.C. translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint where, in the Psalms, nebel was translated psalterion. Thus, Nebuchadnezzar's idolatrous ensemble included the Aramic psantria. Notice, also, that the book of Psalms has also become known as the Psalter (or psalterium), from the hymns sung with this harp.

Nebel (h5035) neh'-bel; or nebel nay'-bel; from 5034; a skin- bag for liquids (from collapsing when empty); hence a vase (as similar in shape when full); also a lyre (as having a body of like form): - bottle, pitcher, psaltery, vessel, viol

Nabel (h5034) naw-bale'; a prim. root; to wilt; gen. to fall away, fail, faint; fig. to be foolish or (mor.) wicked; causat. to despise, disgrace: - disgrace, dishonour, lightly esteem, fade (away, - ing), fall (down, -ling, off), do foolishly, come to nought, * surely, make vile, wither..

In many of the ancient documents from Babylon and other nations, the gods were believed to be inside of musical instruments which were made into the form of a bull (harp). The sounds of the strings was sold to be the voice of the god inside of the idols which even had "speaking tubes" so the manipulator could "discover" the needs of the worshipper and have the idol speak the answer to them (This was before radio).

However, Habakkuk pronounced:

Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. Habakkuk 2:19

But the Lord is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him. Habakkuk 2:20

All pagans believed that a musical instrument WAS a god or was the HOME of a god: that is why Africans baptize their drums and the Catholics baptize their organs and bells.

John Hyrcannus SILENCED all of thes awakening Psalms as pagan.

We even have a mention at a later date of a similar custom in connection with the cult in Jerusalem, where certain Levites, called me'oreim, 'AROUSERS,' sang (every morning?) this verse from-"Ps 44:23: "Awake, O Lord! Why do you sleep? Rouse yourself! Do not reject us forever." The Talmud tells us that John Hyrcanus suppressed the practice because it recalled too readily a pagan custom." (Roland de Vaux, p. 247).

Because David as king was part of a cursed monarchy abandoned to worship the starry host then no one should ever fall into the trap that David was God's approved PATTERNISM for the MUSIC which was a MARK of that Sabazianism or worship of the Sun, Moon and planets as "wandering stars." Apollo was the SUN god and is Abaddon or Apollyon and the musicians (muses) in Revelation 18 are called sorcerers: so too is the prophesying under the Levites.

Pindar, Neaman Ode. Pi.N.9.50 9.[1 Pindar 9:[1] Muses, we will go in victory procession from Apollo's shrine in Sicyon to newly-founded Aetna, where the doors flung open wide are overwhelmed by guests, at the prosperous home of Chromius. Make a sweet song of verses! For, mounting his chariot of victorious horses, he gives the word to sing for the mother and her twin children [5] who jointly watch over steep Pytho. [6] There is a saying among men: a noble deed when it is accomplished should not be buried silently in the ground; and divine song is suited to boasting. But we will wake the shouting lyre and the flute in honor of the very pinnacle of horse-contests, which Adrastus established for Phoebus [Apollo, Apollyon] by the streams of the Asopus.

Psalms Delitzsch
Moreover, we must take into consideration the facts that the compass of the tenor extends even into the soprano, that the singers were of different ages down to twenty years of age, and that Oriental, and more particularly even Jewish, song is fond of falsetto singing

The psaltery also was an instrument
The PATTERNISM of the sacrificial musicians called parasites was OUTSIDE of the holy places and in the slaughter pen. That would be an approved example to put the musicians OUT of the Holy Place (church) and make them perform in the parking Lot.

Psalm 57 is David on the rune and hiding out in a cave: that would be a NECESSARY INFERENCE if you use this as a pettern.

Wouldn't it be better if true evangelists spent more time just studying these proof texts?

 Respond to this message   
(no login)


February 21 2009, 11:00 AM 

The only fact is there should never be but one Part of any topic of conversation where Ken is concerned. Why? Because any one who reads it is already in a Coma by the end of Part one! Wow! I now know where the term MUMBOJUMBO found its origin! The Bible is not that complicated, God is not that hard to know, and Christ's message is not so confusing! I think that Ken falls into the failing trend of conservative mindsets that to be right I must appear, APPEAR, to have a better understanding than anyone else. Which in turn he makes what he talks about simply to crazy and to difficult to grasp. If someone can't figure it out then it must be right! How do I know this? Because I was Ken growing up when I just spewed out whatever the pulpit preacher told me was right. Thank goodness I found out how to read the Bible with an open mind and more importantly an open heart. I really felt the grace of God come into my life and felt real love.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Two TYPES of text: The Civil-Clergy-destructive Vs the Spiritual

February 21 2009, 6:28 PM 

The question about Psalm 57 and the AWAKENING discussion continues: For readers I wil say again that the EVIL THREAD which included king, kingdom, animal slaughter with the Levites from Levius or Dionysus and exorcism music is recorded "for our learning but not for out patternism" by the Scribes. On the other hand, the Spirit of Christ speaks to the SPIRITUAL THREAD through the prophets who repudiate the musical world and use words which define the Babylonian or national worship TO WHICH God had abandoned them even in Egypt.

THOSE WHO KNEW THE PROPHETS WERE READY TO BE BAPTIZED: The Spirit of Christ identified the Word as FREE and defined the true REST as excluding doing our own pleasures or even speaking our own words: in the prophets and in person Jesus MARKED the slick speakers, singers and instrument players as HYPOCRITES. Therefore, the teaching of Christ in the prophets is still commanded by Peter as that which we should pay attention to until the "Day star rises in our heart" or until that which is perfect sinks through.

Therefore, when people pull up the proof texts as authority for the school of the Bible even when it is clearly defines as EXORCISM in all sacrificial systems and performed by those they called PARASITES, we know that exposing them to the CONTEXT will be like shining a bright light into Dracula's coffin. Nevertheless, we are called to witness and NOT to convert which all of the evidence proves will be impossible.

Jeremiah speaking for Christ writes:

Jer. 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not:
........the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Jer. 7:9 Will ye steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense unto Baal,
........and walk after other gods whom ye know not;
Jer. 7:10 And come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name,
........and say, We are delivered to do all these abominations?
Jer. 8:4 Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD;
........Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?
Jer. 8:5 Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding?
........they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
Jer. 8:6 I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness,
........saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.
Jer. 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times;
........and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is WITH US?
........THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain.


8267. sheqer, sheh-ker; from 8266; an untruth; by implication, a sham (often adverbial): without a cause, deceit(-ful), false(-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, + lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully.

8266. shaqar, shaw-kar´; a primitive root; to cheat, i.e. be untrue (usually in words):fail, deal falsely, lie.


Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
........exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Matt. 20:18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed
........unto the chief priests and unto the scribes,
........and they shall condemn him to death,
Matt. 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock [musically], and to scourge, and to crucify him:
........and the third day he shall rise again.

Prospaizo jest or sport (clap) make fun of, II. c. acc., theous p. sing to the gods, sing in their praise or honour

Matt. 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
........for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves,
........neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Matt. 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
........for ye devour widows houses, and for a pretence make long prayer:
................ therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Matt. 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:
........and some of them ye shall kill and crucify;
........and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues,
........and persecute them from city to city:
Matt. 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,
........from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias,
........whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


Hypokrites (g5273) hoop-ok-ree-tace'; from 5271; an actor under an assumed character (stage-player), i.e. (fig.) a dissembler ("hypocrite"): - hypocrite.

Hupokrino reply, make answer, of an oracle, 2. expound, interpret, explain [Peter outlawed this as private interpretation.] 2. deliver a speech, declaim, of orators and rhetoricians, represent dramatically, erotikon dramaton 3. of an orator, use histrionic arts, exaggerate, ape, mimic, Mania or religious frenzy.

Rhetor-ikos , on, oratorical, he rhetorike (sc. techne). These are the craftsmen lumped with the singers, musicians and "grinder" doing merchandise in the house of prayer. Rev. 18:22

LATIN: canto I. Neutr., to produce melodious sounds (by the voice or an instrument), to sound, sing, play (class. in prose and poetry; to sing and play while the actor accompanies the song with gestures or dancing, C. Transf., of instruments, to sound, resound: 2. Of the singing pronunciation of an orator, to declaim in a singing tone, to sing. Of the cock crowing of the Galli. A.Prophetic or oracular song, B. An incantation, charm, magic song, etc.: cantusque artesque magorum.

BACK TO JEREMIAH speaking of the wise who are ashamed.


Jer. 8:10 Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall inherit them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness, from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

Jer. 8:11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.

Jer. 8:12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore shall they fall among them that fall: in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

The WISE to be EXCLUDED in 1 Corinthians 1 along with the podiums and "collectors of shekels" or Canaanites from the Church, are the sophists who by definition use "music" to make themseleves SEEM to be wise but the spiritual see the mark of the beast--gender confused.

The inspired for the CARNAL thread means that the accounts of the SCRIBES are preserved for us to see the evil taking place in modern churches overgrown with HYPOCRITES meaning anyone who performs as a rhetorician, singer or musician John identifies as SORCERERS. Furthermore, he says they are lusted after FRUITS as ministers of the BABYLON MOTHER OF HARLOTS. Today, she is named ZOE.


"There are hints that Pan was also linked closely to the Mother Goddess (Zoe, Eve, Sophia), and perhaps was even one of her male consorts at one time, and linked with her as overlord of nature and Lord of the Beasts.

Pindar mentions Pan as: "O blessed one, whom the Olympians call dog (catamite) of the Great Mother, taking every form"

"There are references to Pan as 'the dog of Cybele' the great nature-goddess of the Greeks, as being always in attendance on her, being himself a nature-god. The fact that Pindar calls Pan 'dog' is taken as a glorification of that animal.

"The story remains in old legends [700] that Pan, the keeper of wild beasts, breathing sweet-voiced music on his well-joined pipes, once brought from its tender mother on Argive hills a lamb with beautiful golden fleece. A herald stood on the stone platform and cried aloud,

"To assembly, Mycenaeans, go to assembly to see the omens given to our blessed rulers." . . . and they honored the house of Atreus. "

Sophocles Electra: The Athenians believed that wine could be offered to Pan, but not to the Nymphs (unless he was present too). Is this an indication of what was to come
........where Dionysus took over the role of Wine-God,
........and included Bacchus (as well as Pan) in his retinue?
"Menander says that Pan was NOT a God that was approached in worship in silence.
........His love of music and dance, dictated that his worship include those elements,
........including clapping,
........and the sound of cymbals.
Individual offerings found have included vases, oil lamps (at the cave at Vari in Attica), golden grasshoppers
........and reliefs - one of which at least shows Pan
........outside a cave in front of his worshipers,
........playing the Syrinx, and accompanied by Hermes,
........three Nymphs and the river Achelous.

Musical Ministers get revealed when they let their himation drag.

It is EXACTLY a COMA God puts you into as a strong delusion when you refused to be a student of the Word .

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Ken is still incapable of a simple answer to simple questions

February 22 2009, 2:44 PM 

Alan's simple challenge that Ken is unable to meet: "I want to be able to open a KJV, that this site promotes as the only reliable translation, and read where Jesus says, "Do not use instrumental music in your worship service." I would also like to read where he says, "You are to have a song, a prayer, three more songs, communion, another song, the sermon, and and invitation song.""

And Ray has also asked one more simple challenge that Ken has not yet answered:

"Is Psalm 57 and Psalm 108 inspired by God?"

Ken's long-winded distracdtions remond me of the Pharisses when Jesus asked themn a simple straight-forward question. I am making a paraphrase to make relevant and to illustrate Ken's refusal to answer:

"When He entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to Him while He was teaching, and said, "By what authority are You doing instrumentatl music, and who gave You this authority?" Jesus said to them, "I will also ask you one thing, which if you tell Me, I will also tell you by what authority I do these things. "Is Psalm 57 and Psalm 108 inspired by God or by by man?" And they began reasoning among themselves, saying, "If we say, `By God,' He will say to us, `Then why did you not believe wat God has inspired?' "But if we say, `By man,' we fear the people; for we want them to regard our website as if it described God's pattern." And answering Jesus, they said, "We will not give you a striaght answer but instead will fill the air with many confusing and irrelevant words." He also said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things."

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Sorry: I am not the guy to address simple minds :-)

February 22 2009, 8:37 PM 

God abandoned Israel to "worship the starry host" according to Stephen and all known evidence. That means that the Monarchy was a gentile-like nation and the temple and the sacrificial system was identical to that of Babylon or Tyre That is why all of the "music guilds" had Canaanite names!

When the WARS were over David had a surplus of Warrior Musicians so he organized a Works Project Administration to keep the mustered out Levites from revolting. Even then they had to rotate and were FED only when on duty.
Stephen said:
........God promised David a TENT
........But, Solomon built God a HOUSE
........But, God is not worshipped in HOUSES built by human hands or by the works of human hands.

That is why NO ONE ever held worship services in the Temple--as your false preacher told you. If a singer or musician went into the Holy Place they would be instantly exocuted. Contrary to what you have fallen for, David did not command instrumental music for the Church of Christ: David was old bloody hands not even fit to build a HOUSE in which God WOULD NOT DWELL or BE WORSHIPPED.

That is why if you ever find an Ekklesia or School of the Bible the preacher will also know chapter 15.

1Chr. 15:19 So the singers, Heman, Asaph, and Ethan, were appointed to sound with cymbals of brass;

SOUND is not music but a noise saying "pay attention."


6750. = tsalal, tsaw-lal´; a primitive root (identical with 6749 through the idea of vibration); to tinkle, i.e. rattle together (as the ears in reddening with shame, or the teeth in chattering with fear): quiver, tingle.

6767. tslatsal, tsel-aw-tsal´; from 6750 reduplicated; a clatter, i.e. (abstractly) whirring (of wings); (concretely) a cricket; also a harpoon (as rattling), a cymbal (as clanging):--cymbal, locust, shadowing, spear.

CYMBALS AND THE TAMBOURINE WERE WOMEN'S INSTRUMENTS: Hell, Topheth, is named after the Tambourine.

Tympanotriba , ae, m., = tumpanotribês, I. a taborer, a timbrel-player, a term of reproach for a soft, effeminate person (alluding to the priests of Cybele), Plaut. Truc. 2, 7, 49; cf. tympanum.

This is the Mother Goddess: in the warning of Paul restricting raising ARMS, hoping that they would let the KNIFE SLIP was to PROVE that the wrath or orge was the musical ritual of perverts.

T. Maccius Plautus, Truculentus, or The Churl

STRATOPHANES (to PHRONESIUM.) What say you? Why have you dared to say that you love another man?

PHRONESIUM I chose to.

STRATOPHANES Say you so, indeed? I'll first make trial of that. Do you, for the sake of such a shabby present, vegetables, and comestibles, and vinegar-water, bestow your love upon an effeminate, frizzle-pated, dark-haunt frequenting, drum-drubbing debauchee, a fellow not worth a nutshell:

........6 Is he deranged: "Hariolus." Literally, "a soothsayer," or "diviner." In their prophetic frenzy,
........these persons often had the appearance of being mad, and were so considered.
........7 Drum-drubbing debauchee: "Typanotriba." Literally, "drum," or "tambourine beater."
........He alludes to the eunuch-priests of Cybele, who used to beat tambourines in her procession-probably allusion to debauchees, emasculated by riot and dissipation

That is why "don't get drunk on wine" before you SPEAK the text often appears as "getting fluted down with wine."

Sistrum, a metallic rattle which was used by the Egyptians in celebrating the rites of Isis, and in other lascivious festivals,.Ov. Am. 2, 13, 11 By the Jews, Vulg. 1 Reg. [Samuel] 18, 6 .--Hence sarcastically, as if used for a war - trumpet by the wanton Cleopatra Verg. A.8.696 Luc. 10.63

CY´MBALUM The cymbal was a very ancient instrument, and unquestionably came from the East, where among other nations it was familiar to the Jews (see Dict. of Bible, s. v.). It is represented in a Phoenician bronze from Cyprus, now in the Cesnola collection at New York (D. and S. i. 1697 a). We find sacred trees depicted with cymbals hung on them as votive offerings, so as to be blown about by the wind (Guhl and Koner, p. 5, fig. 1). Among the Greeks and Romans they were especially used in orgiastic rites of Eastern origin, like those of Cybele (Pind. fragm. 48 = 79 Bergk4; Lucret. ii. 618; Catull. lxiii. 29; Verg. Georg. iv. 64; Propert. iv. 7, 61; Ov. Fast. iv. 213) and Dionysus (Aesch. fragm. cit.; Liv. xxxix 8 fin., 10), as well as in the Eleusinian mysteries of Demeter and Cora (Pind. Isthm. vi. 3; Clem. Alex. Protrept. 2, § 15, p. 14; Schol. Aristoph. Acharn. 708). It will be noticed how constantly, in these passages, the cymbal and the tympanum are coupled together. Art monuments tell the same tale as literature, both as to the joint use of the two instruments and the deities in whose worship they occur. A cymbal figured in Daremberg and Saglio (i. 1697 b) is a votive offering to Cora.

If Jehovah turned them over to worship the starry host then they were NOT worshiping our God but these Babylonian etal "gods."

The Pope's Eunuchs [beginning of text] meaning A CAPPELLA FELLAS.
One of the vices which the Spaniards had brought to Italy in the 16 century along with the Borgia family and the Spanish Roman Emperors was the falsetto singer. There were artists who could sing falsetto with distinction, but as the opera gained in popularity in Italy the practice began of emasculating boys with good voices and retaining them as male soprani or, as the Italians, with their usual lack of Christian reticence about sex called them, the castrati. They were in every opera in the 18th century, but foreign visitors were never reconciled to them. The famous English weekly, The Spectator, wrote about "the shrill celestial whine of eunuchs," and by the end of the 18th century they began to fade out of the opera-house.

These were the a cappella: when it became illegal to castrate the "worship leaders" men began to compose what they called "trousers songs." the few males who could sing in the high imitation of the castrati took over. It has been observed that "praise singers" the OLDEST PROFESSION get to the point that their voice is always effeminate.

1Chr. 15:20 And Zechariah, and Aziel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehiel, and Unni, and Eliab, and Maaseiah, and Benaiah, with psalteries on Alamoth

Ray could tell you that NOT BEFORE God abandoned the king and kingdom to worship like the pagans, ONLY FEMALES did what David is commanding for his WARRIOR MUSICIANS. THEREFORE, lusting for David as proof text OUTS your preferences whether you have caught on or not.

5961. Alamowth, al-aw-moth´; plural of 5959; properly, girls, i.e. the soprano or female voice, perhaps falsetto:--Alamoth.

Psalms Delitzsch

Moreover, we must take into consideration the facts that the compass of the tenor extends even into the soprano, that the singers were of different ages down to twenty years of age, and that Oriental, and more particularly even Jewish, song is fond of FALSETTO singing. We therefore adopt Perret- Gentil's rendering, chant avec voix de femmes, and still more readily Armand de Mestral's, en soprano;/b>

5959. almah, al-maw´; feminine of 5958; a lass (as veiled or private):--damsel, maid, virgin.

The legalists are correct: Jesus never said "thou shalt not perform warrior's PRAISE music" meaning to MAKE SELF VILE in a sexual sense to threaten the enemy.

You will NEVER find any kind of religious "praise music" which is not intended to upset your mind so that you THINK that the evil spirit is a holy spirit. It is not and I appreciate you posting all of the "I have never read the Bible proof texts" but I don't get offended because my job is to WITNESS and your job--if I understand prophecy--is to MOCK. That is a predestianted residue left for anyone who has acceted the music means spiritual worship of a Holy God. I will just send this along so it will be waiting on judgment day.

 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

Re: Ken is still incapable of a simple answer to simple questions

February 23 2009, 10:50 AM 

Ray's biblical "paraphrase" takes liberties with Scripture. Why should the chief priests and elders upbraid Jesus for using instruments when the temple already utilized instrumental music in worship at select times? Alright, instruments were used in temple worship in Jesus' day under the Mosaic Law. Does that practice apply today to Christian worship? "What was good for temple worship is good for Christian worship." Does the New Testament say that? Hardly. Most Christians who stubbornly advocate instruments demand to see a New Testament passage that says, "Christians are forbidden to use instruments in worship." That's using the heretical adage of "God didn't say not to." Most advocates of instruments don't bother to see if the New Testament explicitly authorizes instruments in Christian worship as it explicitly does with vocal music (Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16).

Can we apply the heretical adage of "God didn't say not to" and carry instruments or any other practice of the Mosaic Law into Christian worship? The following paragraphs provide the answer. They are taken from an essay written by the Rev. John M'Donald (1843-1933), a Scottish minister in the Reformed Presbyterian Church. I quote this material, because it shows that even Presbyterians knew at one time that instrumental music was not appropriate for Christian worship:

"Let us take the tabernacle first. Do we find any allusion in the Mosaic record to instrumental music in the service of God? We do. Moses was commanded to make two silver trumpets, and we apprehend that in these silver trumpets we have the germ of that instrumental service afterward so fully developed in the temple. These trumpets, however, were always to be used at special seasons, and every allusion in the Scriptures to those instruments in the tabernacle worship is invariably bound up with the ceremonial observances which God appointed. Instrumental music, either singly or conjointly with the music of the voice, in God's praise, apart from sacrificial offerings, we never find. The invariable rule was, Ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings. [Numbers 10:10] Take away the burnt offerings, and remove the altars of incense, and you take away all the need for the silver trumpets of Moses.

"We now approach the temple. Here we find instrumental music in the richest abundance. It does not much affect the question whether David from his great love for music and skill in the art was prompted, with God's permission, to introduce the cymbal and the harp, or whether he received a direct command from God to arrange those splendid concerts of temple worship with which his name will ever be associated. We are not disposed to question for one moment that the use of instruments was scriptural under the Old Testament economy. And we must say it does appear plausible when we are told that if the use of instruments was enjoined under the law, and if it is fully employed as a symbolic description of the worship of God in heaven, it cannot justly be excluded from the dispensation that comes between and as it were unites the two. If it was right under David, how is it wrong in these times of gospel liberty?

"In opening up this question we answer that the temple, which was the grand center of Jewish symbolism, has been swept away, not merely by the destructive might of the armies of Rome, but by the verdict of Jesus, who declared by his apostle that though it had been glorious it had no glory by reason of the glory that excelleth [2 Corinthians 3:10]. The temple, as the embodiment of Judaism, had a glory all its own - the glory of exalted song and stupendous melody among the rest; but it all fades away before the surpassing glory of the gospel. And our position is, that without the specific warrant of Christ or his apostles, we have no right to drag the elements of temple worship into the sanctuaries of the gospel dispensation. 'The priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change of the law' [Hebrews 7:12].

"We ask our readers to note the following facts which they will find verified in Old Testament history. Instrumental music in religious worship was employed by command of God only in the temple - we have not a single recorded instance of its being employed either in the synagogue or in the homes of the people; it was always rendered by a special class - the priests and Levites; and it was always rendered in connection with the offering of sacrifices to God. If our readers will consult 2 Chronicles 29:25, they will find these statements fully borne out by that single passage. From all this it is most manifest that instrumental music was one element in an elaborate ceremonial and symbolic worship. We never find it by itself in isolated independence. And those therefore who plead for any one of the usages of the tabernacle or temple, without a divine warrant, plead for too much. If we admit instrumental music into our churches either as worship or as an aid to devotion, on this ground, the same argument will ultimately crowd in upon our simple worship all the 'beggarly elements' of an abrogated ceremonialism."

Web Site:

The bottom line: We are not to carry any remnants of the Mosaic Law (instrumental music, burnt sacrifices, incense, etc.) into Christian worship without the explicit consent of Christ. That consent is not found in the New Testament.

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Bill did not understand the point

February 23 2009, 12:00 PM 


I appreciate your reply, but you missed the point entirely. The point of the parapharsed example was not to promote instruments or defend them. The point was to expose Ken's refusal to answer simple questions as the same as the Pharisees' refusal to answer Jesus' simple question.

If Ken agrees that Psalms 57 and 108 are inspired by Holy God for our instruction and edification, then he destroys his own argument. If Ken disagrees that Psalms 57 and 108 are inspired by Holy God, then he is guilty of declaring a part of the Holy Scriptures as uninspred, and will lose his audience.

Ken is the one who is guilty of changing the praise of David, the man after God's own heart, into something evil.

 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)

Re: Bill did not understand the point

February 23 2009, 9:27 PM 

Yes, Bill understood the point quite well. A person can ask a question and receive an answer. But if the answer is not what the person wants to hear, then as far as that person is concerned, his question wasn't "answered" (according to his preferences). And so it goes with Ray. Go in peace.

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

No answer given

February 24 2009, 8:07 AM 

No, Bill. Ken has been asked a very simple question - Does he believe Psalms 57 and 108 are inspired by Holy God? All he has done is his usual long-winded, mud-on-the-wall, pre-packaged, non-relevant diatribes. But he has not answered a simple question. The answer is simple - either Psalms 57 and 108 are inspired by Holy God or they are not. I suspect I know why Ken will not answer. It is because he thinks that the praise David offered to Holy God with music and instruments was evil. And that is why he fears to answer a simple question.

Will you answer the simple question? Do you believe Psalms 57 and 108 are inspired by Holy God?

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Jesus Simplified...

February 23 2009, 1:05 PM 

It is amazing to me that we as "Christians" try and write giant manuscripts to try and show our biblical superiority complexes. I too have been guilty of trying to sound much more educated than I need to be.

I believe (my opinion - opinions are like armpits, everyone has a couple and they all stink - quoting a friend of mine) that Jesus would be sick to his stomach by the venom spewed on this and other "Christian" site! That being said, I am going to try and state my thoughts without provoking vomit and let you chew on something.

Quoting from the KJV (a version a don't advocate because of verses like...Deut 33:17, Job 39:9;10, Psalm 22:21; 29:6; 92:10, Isaiah name a few) in the Gospel of Matthew 22:34-40:

"But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Why do we have to make this difficult, when Jesus took fishermen and tax collectors to take his gospel to the world. FISHERMEN AND TAX COLLECTORS!!!!!! They tried to "catch" Jesus saying something that they could nail him with. They were trying to show their "superior" knowledge of the law (613 laws. 248 positive commands...such as "Do this" and 365 negative commands...such as "Don't do this") These "Men of God" were trying to confuse the man that was God! Huh, isn't it funny that we have not changed. We still try and bind things onto people when Jesus himself has not bound them on anyone.

The Church of Jesus Christ will not grow until websites like this one cease to exist! The Church of Jesus Christ will not grow until we show the world around us that the Creator of all things sent His Son into this world to save them (ALL OF THEM) from an eternal death. Until then we will be as clanging cymbols to the world. Loud and annoying!

May God turn our eyes from ourselves and turn them to Him!

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

ALL of the MONARCHY, temple, sacrifices, exorcism music was STAR WORSHIP.

February 23 2009, 9:38 PM 


PSALM 57 IS NOT A COMMAND BUT A PERSONAL SONG: the Bible always says that DAVID and others wrote the psalms and the BOOK clearly includes Ugaritic poems even as the Law of Moses includes laws for a CURSED PEOPLE doomed to live under and with CANAANITE laws until they were carried back prepared to live under BABYLONIAN laws.

It is NOT inspired in the sense that it is YOUR command to awaken your LYRE so you can awaken the DAWN.
David was the king over national WORSHIP OF THE STARRY HOSTS.
David's PRAISE word is the same as the word used for LUCIFER.
His PRAISE word means to make yourself vile USED ONLY by women before DAVID. wink.gif

No Christian would be inclined to twang his harp trying to MAKE THE SUN come up or call God into His temple (us)

Picking isolated proof texts is proof that people DO NTO CARE to be Disciples: that's is why all of the Biblical or UNIVERAL pagan parallels makes you so HOSTILE.

Much less is it a PATTERNISM for you to use to LIE about every instrumental notice and CLAIM that the Spirit told you that this is God's COMMAND to do instrumental praise in the CHURCH: the CHURCH shout down all of the SHADOWS and SKIA means FALSE TEACHINGS. Didn't I tell you that the prophets and Jesus warned about LYING SCRIBES.

ONLY THE PROPHETS speak for the spiritual person. Psalms (not include instruments) as Mizmors are to TEACH andADMONISH and not make an effeminate boy and girl show.

Long before Jesus the CURSE of the sacrificial system had almost ceased and there is no evidence of NOISE when Jesus went into the OUTER COURT far removed from the slaughter house. The JEWS had mostly been replaced by HIRELINGS and the Temple was called HEROD'S TEMPLE and Jesus says what God said of the original temple: "You can look toward the temple when you pray" but we know that the people were OUTSIDE of the gates and God heard from HEAVEN. The priesthood was probably Edomites and therefore a "race of VIPERS" not capable of receiving baptism or hearing Jesus without a parable.

The synagogue was for the citizens: music was outlawed
The Temple was for the "worship of the starry hosts" under the KING and commanders of the army: that is NOT inspired in telling you to "go and do likewise."

Because the false teachers REST on the curse of the Law and the Monarchy, the elders, preachers and artistic performers would die if they ventured in or near the area of animal slaughter.

Furthermore, no Levite, used as Warrior Noise makers and later under the king and commanders of the army--could come near the holy places of the sanctury or they would be executed. The patternism is that if a musician enters into the body of Christ as fulfilment of the Holy Place he / she / it is worthy of death.

Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee,
........that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto THEE:
........but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister BEFORE the tabernacle of witness. [never IN]

The synagogue never used noise making instruments.
Later after God terminally abandoned them to "worship the starry host" David used the Levites under the KING and COMMANDERS of the army AROUND but never IN the holy places. David didn't live to see the HOUSE built by human hands.

There are three opinions about the Temple:
David thought that the promise of a TENT meant a house but that HE could not build a house for God as a WARRIOR.
Solomon thought that David could not build the temple until AFTER he had slaughtered all of the people.
God said "Neithe" I am God: I do not DWELL in houses; I am not WORSHIPPED with the works of human hands.

They are all recorded: ONLY ONE IS GOD'S VIEW. Only cherry pickers can believe that God gave David a pattern for a HOUSE when we know that it was built by Hiram the Masonic Architect for the worship of the STARS.

God promised David a TENT
But, God built God a HOUSE
But, God cannot be worshipped in houses made by human hands or the WORKS of human hands {musical instruments are DEFINED as machines for doing hard work}

That means that God promised David a risen TABERNACLE or FAMILY and not a literal HOUSE at a place called Sodom and the Mother of Harlots.

When the HOUSE was dedicated the LOUD NOISE (one note) caused God to SHUT DOWN ACCESS to the symbols of His presence. Jerusalem was almost totally consumed with pagan idolatry and plagued by prostitutes and sodomites plying their trade with instruments: NEVER USED BY MALES before David. The holy prostitutes did their duty IN the temple for many years.

Not even the priests went under COVERED PLACES

H8334 sharath shaw-rath' A primitive root; to attend as a menial or worshipper; figuratively to contribute to:--minister (unto), (do) serve (-ant, -ice, -itor), wait on.

Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle:
........only they [PRIESTS] shall not come NIGH the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar,
........that neither they, nor ye also, die.

Nadab and Abihu violates several commandments.

All of the non-Levites were called STRANGERS: therefore, if you were not of the tribe of Levi with the assignment to serve you could not even minister to the priests outside of the Temple-proper. Therefore, no member of the "church" could come near the Tabernacle and none of the "ministers" could ENTER it.

"A stranger," that is, one, neither a priest nor a Levite, who should intrude into any departments of the sacred office, should incur the penalty of death. ROBERT JAMIESON

Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee,
........and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation,
........for all the service [hard, legalistic bondage] of the tabernacle:
........and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.

THE PEOPLE NEVER WORSHIPPED IN THE TABERNACLE: IT WAS NOT A SYNAGOGUE BUT A SYMBOL OF GOD'S PRESENCE NEVER TO BE PINNED DOWN TO ONE LOCATION. Not in the vilest pagan temple could singers and musicians enter into the holy places: that would IMPLY that you and God were on equal foothing.


ONLY THE PRIESTS OF LEVI COULD COME NEAR BUT NOT IN THE HOLY PLACES. Only the High Priest could come before the Most Holy place ONCE A YEAR.



THE NOISE WAS TO BRING ON "HOLOCAUST" OR THE SLAUGHTER AND BURNING OF THE ANIMALS NEVER COMMANDED BUT IMPOSED. The word prophesying in Jerusalem and in all identical temples the noise is NEVER called worship but was EXORCISM.


The sacrificial system was NEVER the spiritual worship but part of the WRATH DISPELLING curse imposed because of Musical idolatry.

You don't have to be TOO bright to know that the Levites were armed guards PREVENTING any citizen from comming close to anything HOLY: David commandedthe instruments and as millitary KING needed no COMMAND to "musical instruments as machines used primarily in making war." MOST of the psalms were TAUNT songs and none of the true PSALMS or MIZMORS include and instrument.

Num 18:5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar:
........hat there be NO WRATH any more upon the children of Israel.

Wow! the Levites rather than standing in the holy places claiming to be God by claiming to be mediators are to STAND GUARD even outside of the SLAUGHTER PIT to warn or SLAUGHTER any citizen from coming CLOSE.

Contrary to being a spiritual worship service, the sacrificial system had been imposed and if it were not performed it would bring down God's wrath as punishment due for NOT performing what they had been abandoned to.

Num 18:6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: you they are given as a gift for the LORD, do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

The Levites and no citizen bore the BURDEN of the Tabernacle and bore the BURDEN of animal sacrifices: in effect the priests and noise makers ABSORBED the utter shock and horror of animal slaughter to PROTECT the Holy Tribes from this wratn.

........H5656 abodah abodoh ab-o-daw', ab-o-daw' From H5647 ; work of any kind:--act, bondage, + bondservant, effect, labour, ministering (-try),
........H5647 abad aw-bad' keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute

This is derived from the Hebrew Abbadown which speaks of destruction in hell: the same Apollo, Abaddon or Apollyon in Revelation who uses dirty adulteresses as MUSES John called SORCERESSES. The PROPHESYING word has the SAME MEANING: the PRAISE word meant to drive people into madness which was part of the Jews SABAZIANISM which was NOT commanded but IMPOSED as a death sentence.

Only select priests could enter into the Holy Place as a type of the church: only the High Priests could serve within the veil once a year.

Num 18:7 Therefore thou and thy sons with thee shall keep your priests office for every thing of the altar,
........and within the veil; and ye shall serve: I have given your priests office unto you as a service of gift:
........and the stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Under the lusted for Law of STAR WORSHIP using David as a proof text NO CHRISTIAN could enter into the Holy Place as church and no Christian could offer up incense as the FRUIT of the lips and come BOLDLY before the Throne of Grace.

That means that there are NO LEVITES either to KILL US if we try to enter or to ACCOMPANY us as we worship in our spirit as the ONLY Most Holy Place.



 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Ken's message and God's Holy Word

February 24 2009, 10:32 AM 

What Ken says:

PSALM 57 IS NOT A COMMAND BUT A PERSONAL SONG: the Bible always says that DAVID and others wrote the psalms and the BOOK clearly includes Ugaritic poems even as the Law of Moses includes laws for a CURSED PEOPLE doomed to live under and with CANAANITE laws until they were carried back prepared to live under BABYLONIAN laws.

It is NOT inspired in the sense that it is YOUR command to awaken your LYRE so you can awaken the DAWN.
David was the king over national WORSHIP OF THE STARRY HOSTS.
David's PRAISE word is the same as the word used for LUCIFER.
His PRAISE word means to make yourself vile USED ONLY by women before DAVID."

What God says:
"Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance, persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me! Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:10-17, NASB)

Now we can choose to believe Ken, or choose to believe God. Because we can NOT believe both.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Abandonment to Star Worship is NOT God's command for worship.

February 23 2009, 10:40 PM 

Facts known by any student of the Bible and confirmed by the Jewish Encyclopedia:

But the Kingdom of Judah in its later period seems to have outdone the Northern Kingdom [Israel] in star-worship." Of Manasseh it is related that he built altars to all the hosts of heaven in the two courts of the house of YHWY, and it seems it was the practice of even Kings before him to appoint priests who offered sacrifices to the Sun, the Moon, the planets, and all the hosts of heaven. Altars for star-worship were built on the roofs of the houses, and horses and chariots were dedicated to the worship of the Sun. (II Kings 21:5; 23:4-5, 11-12) Star-worship continued in Judah until the 18th year of Josiah's reign (621 B.C.) when the King took measures to abolish all kinds of idolatry. But although star-worship was then abolished as a public cult, it was practiced privately by individuals

Anyone who had ever read Acts 7 with open eyes knows that God did NOT command the worship of the starry host at Jerusalem.

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina,
........and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
Acts 7:39 To whom our fathers would not obey,
........but thrust him from them,
........and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,

Acts 7:40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us:
........for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days,
........and offered sacrifice unto the idol,
........and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

This "rising up to play" involved eating, drinking, nakedness and musical worship. The goddess, Hathor, is the best candidate for the Mother Goddess of the Mount Sinai idolatry. Here priestessess or prophetesses were highly trained with musical instruments, cultic songs and be able to join in the religious dance.

Acts 7:42 Then God turned,
........and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel,
........have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Why would God's abandoning Israel to worship the starry host be thought to be a COMMAND for musical worship services which you will never find in the Old Testament.

Why would anyone but an agent of Apollo (Sun God) and his Muses (Locusts) as dirty prostitutes serving as rhetoricians, singers and instrument players as a MARK, try to SCAM people and blame those who resist them as TROUBLERS IN ZION? That is because John calls them sorcerers who HAD ALREADY deceived the whole world and are spending all of their time, money fleeced from believers and terrorism to try to UNLEASH the end time MOTHER OF HARLOTS worship.

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
........and the star of your god Remphan,
........ figures which ye made to worship them:
........and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

Acts 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, he had appointed, speaking unto Moses,
........that he should make it according to the fashion that he had seen.

Acts 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles,
........whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

When David was too fearful to return to Gibeon and God's presence: rather than killing David God gave him an ancient Jebusite High place in Jerusalem called THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS. Solomon went to Gibeon to seek God and NOT to David's tabernacle in Jerusalem called Sodom, Hagar, Bondage, mother of harlots.

Acts 7:46 Who found favour before God,
........and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.
........Acts 7:47 But Solomon built him an house.
Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
........Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool:
........what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Acts 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

By building God a HOUSE rather than the fallen tabernacle of David or a family, the are accused of
........Being Stiffnecked in uncircumcised
........And they RESISTED the Holy Spirit (of Christ)

The Spirit of Christ spoke through the PROPHETS and the LYING SCRIBES wrote the king's view of things.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, do always resist the Holy Ghost: your fathers did, so do ye.

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?
........and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One;
........of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:

There are numerous Old and New Testament passages which show that the Spirit of Christ speaks ONLY through the writing prophets: the Scribes spoke for the monarchy permitted as a CURSE and they are the Lying Pens of The Scribes: Jesus calls them hypocrites pointing to rhetoricians singers and instrument players.

Hos. 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: Luke 1: 70

The Law of Moses from which they were commanded not to veer to the right or left was GOD'S commands: he did not command that a HOUSE be built for Him, He did not command a KING like all pagan nations and he did NOT commands the warriors instruments to be used in the HOUSE He did not command--whatever the lying pen of the scribes of the MOTHER OF HARLOTS recorded for our WARNING and not PATTERNISM.

Acts 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels,
........and have not kept it.
Acts 7:54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart,
........and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

That's why as children of prophet killers people gnash their teeth when anyone stands up to their terrorism.
Remember that the SOP is the same root as PSALLO: when Jesus hand fed Judas the SOP the Devil came into him andall pagans believed that playing instruments gave them powers to INDUCE DEMONS. The Judas Bag was always attached to the flute case of a drunk and perverted flute player. The Alarm or Triumph OUTLAWED for the church in the wilderness INTENDS to frighten God's people into bowing to Baal.

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

The Apostle Paul and the Psalms that Ken wants to ignore

February 24 2009, 11:05 AM 

Paul in Romans 15:7-9 (NASB)- "Therefore, accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God. For I say that Christ has become a servant to the circumcision on behalf of the truth of God to confirm the promises given to the fathers, and for the Gentiles to glorify God for His mercy; as it is written, "THEREFORE I WILL GIVE PRAISE TO YOU AMONG THE GENTILES, AND I WILL SING TO YOUR NAME.""

Paul is quoting from one of three Psalms: Psalms 18, 57, and 108.

Psalm 18 (NASB) - "Therefore I will give thanks to You among the nations, O LORD, And I will sing praises to Your name." This Psalm begins with, "For the choir director. A Psalm of David the servant of the LORD, who spoke to the LORD the words of this song in the day that the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul. And he said,"

Chronciles describes how the choir director was invloved: "Then David spoke to the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their relatives the singers, with instruments of music, harps, lyres, loud-sounding cymbals, to raise sounds of joy. So the Levites appointed Heman the son of Joel, and from his relatives, Asaph the son of Berechiah; and from the sons of Merari their relatives, Ethan the son of Kushaiah, and with them their relatives of the second rank, Zechariah, Ben, Jaaziel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Unni, Eliab, Benaiah, Maaseiah, Mattithiah, Eliphelehu, Mikneiah, Obed-edom and Jeiel, the gatekeepers. So the singers, Heman, Asaph and Ethan were appointed to sound aloud cymbals of bronze; and Zechariah, Aziel, Shemiramoth, Jehiel, Unni, Eliab, Maaseiah and Benaiah, with harps tuned to alamoth; and Mattithiah, Eliphelehu, Mikneiah, Obed-edom, Jeiel and Azaziah, to lead with lyres tuned to the sheminith. Chenaniah, chief of the Levites, was in charge of the singing; he gave instruction in singing because he was skillful. Berechiah and Elkanah were gatekeepers for the ark. Shebaniah, Joshaphat, Nethanel, Amasai, Zechariah, Benaiah and Eliezer, the priests, blew the trumpets before the ark of God. Obed-edom and Jehiah also were gatekeepers for the ark. So it was David, with the elders of Israel and the captains over thousands, who went to bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD from the house of Obed-edom with joy. Because God was helping the Levites who were carrying the ark of the covenant of the LORD, they sacrificed seven bulls and seven rams. Now David was clothed with a robe of fine linen with all the Levites who were carrying the ark, and the singers and Chenaniah the leader of the singing with the singers. David also wore an ephod of linen. Thus all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the LORD with shouting, and with sound of the horn, with trumpets, with loud-sounding cymbals, with harps and lyres." (1 Chronicles 15:16-28, NASB).

So one of the possible Psalms divinely inspired to be quoted by the Apostle Paul was specifically written for directors whose job included the use of instruments of music.

Paul may have quoting from another Psalm, one that Ken disparges, Psalm 57 - "I will give thanks to You, O Lord, among the peoples; I will sing praises to You among the nations."

A quote that is preceded with the divinely inspired phrase, "My heart is steadfast, O God, my heart is steadfast; I will sing, yes, I will sing praises! Awake, my glory! Awake, harp and lyre! I will awaken the dawn."

A Psalm that begins with, "For the choir director..."

Paul may have also been quoting from Psalm 108, which mirrors Psalm 57: "My heart is steadfast, O God; I will sing, I will sing praises, even with my soul. Awake, harp and lyre; I will awaken the dawn! I will give thanks to You, O LORD, among the peoples, And I will sing praises to You among the nations."

A Psalm that begins with, "A Song, a Psalm of David"

Ken wishes to dismiss any Psalm that does not agree with his doctrine. The Apostle Paul did not dismiss the Psalms. He was inspired to quote them, not to dismiss them or excplain then away.

I am sure that Ken has some long-winded, irrelevant, pre-packaged reply he will cut and paste here. We have to decide, however, if we will follow Ken or if we will follow God. We can NOT follow both.

I choose to follow God.

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)

Speakers and Musicians ARE the HYPOCRITES saith Jesus.

February 24 2009, 1:59 PM 

"But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Scribes and Pharisees Jesus called hypocrites by pointing to performance preachers, singers and instrument players who would do PRIVATE INTERPRETATION outlawed by Peter and say: "If we just love the Lorde-uh and the brethren an sisteren then you can just forget everything else. For instance, you can lie, cheat and steal the church house of the widow sisteren because you love the WORLD and all of its adorning glory. However, there are other proof texts:

......Matt. 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets

Would you love to have someone "inflltrate and divert" your church to turn it from a commanded "scholl of the Bible" into a "Theater for holy entertainment?" Probably not. Would you love for a conspireing group to infuiltrate an instrumental church and burn the organ in the parking lot? Probably not.

Would you like for others to lie about all of the "anti-music" passages and tell you that the SPIRIT told you to pay them as pharisees and scribes and ALSO hire a band of HYPOCRITES which Jesus lumped together as the Spirit of Christ in the PROPHETS.

Ezek. 33:30 Also, thou son of man,
......the children of thy people still
......are talking against thee by the walls and in the doors of the h
......and speak one to another, every one to his brother,
......saying, Come, I pray you, and hear what is the word that cometh forth from the LORD.
Ezek. 33:31 And they come unto thee AS the people come AS my people, and they hear thy words,
..........but they will not do them:
......for with their mouth they shew much love,
..........but their heart goeth after their covetousness.

JESUS SAYS: speaking, singing, playing instruments is NOTHING: just NOTHING AT ALL: Hypocricy.

Ezek. 33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them AS a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice,
......and can play well on an instrument:
..........for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
Ezek. 33:33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,)
......then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.

HANGS is a Greek word Jesus probably used as a PARABLE to fool the fools:

krem-annumi As a votive offering. I. MAKE DEPENDENT, a. ex allêlôn tên dunamin Pl.Ion536a


Plato, Ion speaks to the Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites:

(536a] You, the rhapsode and actor [Singers and Hypocrites], are the middle ring; the poet himself is the first; but it is the god who through the whole series draws the souls of men whithersoever he pleases, making the power of one depend on the other. And, just as from the magnet, there is a mighty chain of choric performers and masters and under-masters suspended by side-connections from the rings . One poet is suspended from one Muse, another from another:

The hypocrite class of singers and players CLAIM that they can lead you into the presence of God: in that they claim to BE GOD standing in the holy place because they CLAIM that they can replace Jesus Christ as the one and only MEDIATOR.

The Muses are the Locusts in John's writing: in the literature they are dirty prostitutes.

Rhapsoidos a reciter of poems, professional reciters, chanters, hymnists and singers: called Kuons shameless, men who yap like dogs, Pan is the kuôn of Cybele, of the Cynics meaning homosexual musicians: that is the universal history.

Hupokrites interpreter or expounder, one who plays a part on a stage, actor, 2. of an orator, one who recites, declaimer, pretender, dissembler, hypocrite, hydraula one who plays on the waterorgan. Psilokitharistes one who pays the cithara

[72b] upon these inspired divinations [fullof the god, and mad]; and they, indeed, themselves are named diviners by certain who are wholly ignorant of the truth that they are not diviners but interpreters of the mysterious voice and apparition, for whom the most fitting name would be prophets of things divined.

Matt. 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

[536b] the word we use for it is possessed, but it is much the same thing, for he is held. And from these first rings--the poets--are suspended various others, which are thus inspired, some by Orpheus and others by Musaeus; but the majority are possessed and held by Homer. Of whom you, Ion, are one, and are possessed by Homer; and so, when anyone recites the work of another poet, you go to sleep and are at a loss what to say; but when some one utters a strain of your poet, you wake up at once, and your soul dances,

If you think that the Spirit of Christ did not condemn the serpent or MUSICAL ENCHANTER in the garden of Eden up to Revelation 17-18 where the MOTHER OF HARLOTS uses lusted after FRUITS (Kuons of Cybele the mother whore) as speakers, singers and instrument players (Rev 18) whom John called SORCERERS then you have spent too much time listening to hypocritic sermons and singing hypocritic songs. This violates direct commands to use "that which is written" with one mind and one mouth or "teach that which has been taught."

Satan intends to take you captive so that I believe you when YOU believe what you say.

The fact is that the SCRIBES and PHARISEES were the rhetorical and musical HYPOCRITES: they did not teach the Word as written.

Jesus used very wise but common NON-CLERGY because they would not CORRUPT the Word which means "sell learning at retail."

So, Scribes and Pharisees as professional hypocrites HATE YOU otherwise they could not USE you by lying. In fact they ALL use pagan exorcism noises and convince YOU that God is commanding YOU to do instrumental music: THEY are the ones who use what David ADDED to the Law to put you into captivity--and you love to have it so

The honest EVANGELIST goes and teaches that which has been taught: in no case did you find one pontificating or using music any time or place: that was outlawed for the synagogue or church in the wilderness.

And NO church used singing as an ACT until the pagan Scribes as hypocrites wrote their OWN SCRIPTURE in the year 373.

Sorry, but you have your CLASSES confused. A MUSICAL INSTRUMENT is defined as a MACHINE for doing hard work primarily in making WAR.

We will have NO BEEF if the viper class does not lie about all of the Bible and spend huge money and effort to try to FORCE all churches of Christ to become INSTRUMENTAL. That filters up to the ends of the earth in my little village and makes the Church of Christ a hiss and a byword: no one will accept those who deliberately lie about God and too God. So far, I think we have headed them off and quarantined their filth primarily to those churches who CONSPIRED originally. That only worked by stealing the property from the owners and SOWING DISCORD and driving up to one half of them out sometimes without their families. QUOTE: "you may have to choose between your family and instrumental music."

 Respond to this message   
(no login)

Re: Speakers and Musicians ARE the HYPOCRITES saith Jesus.

February 24 2009, 6:22 PM 

David used his music to defeat the GENTILES, shed their blood and put his boot on their head: David is the EVIL THREAD.
Jesus died and shed HIS blod FOR the Gentiles and then sends out evangelists to speak the WORDS of God to make them one with the Jews.

Can you see a difference? JESUS sings to the Gentiles when WE teach the SONGS AND SERMONS already written and directly commanded as "that which is written."

He will CONFESS to the Gentiles
......and sing UNTO thy name

Rom. 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles,
......ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable,
......being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Rom. 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves

Jesus outlawed the laded burden: that means exciting songs and "creating spiritual anxiety through religious rituals." The word REST is the Greek PAUO which is devoted to "Stop the speaking, stop the singing, stop the instruments." These were always used and only used to do mind control by creating anxity.

First, he outlawed PLEASING ourself which points directly to the "spiritual anxiety of religious rituals" Jesus died to outlaw.

G700 ar-es'-ko Probably from G142 (through the idea of exciting emotion) to be agreeable (or by implication to seek to be so)tongue.giflease.

Exairô -lift up, lift off the earth 2. raise in dignity, exalt, magnify, exaggerate it. Rhetoric, treat in elevated style, of music
3. arouse, stir up excites thy wish to die, pervert, make away with, get rid of, to be excited, agitated

Includes: Choreia [choreuô] a dance, esp. the choral or round dance with its music

G142 airo ah'ee-ro A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [ H5375 ]) to expiate sin :away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Anaireô, anêirêka (aneir-dub. in Com.Adesp.18.6D.): (v. haireô): --take up, anelontes apo chthonos having raised the victim from the ground, so as to cut its throat (cf. aueruô), take up and carry off, bear away, esp. prizes. of oracle's answer to inquiry

II. make away with, destroy, of men, kill, Hdt.4.66; pollous anairôn A.Ch.990 ; se men hêmetera psphos a. E.Andr.517; thanatois a. Pl.Lg. 870d ; ek politeias toiauta thêria a. Din.3.19 , etc.

This word points directly to SINGING and is the root meaning of HERESY


Romans XV. 1 debemus autem nos firmiores imbecillitates infirmorum sustinere et non nobis placere

Sustinere I. to hold up, hold upright, uphold, to bear up, keep up, support, sustain 1.To sustain, support, maintain, by food, money, or other means (maintain,preserve with dignity of a citizen II. Concr., the citizens united in a community, the body - politic, the state, and as this consists of one city and its territory, or of several cities, it differs from urbs, i.e. the compass of the dwellings of the collected citizens;

However, the CHANGELINGS plan to UPSET YOUR COMFORT ZONE to force you to be hurt.
Outlawed: Placeo to please, to be pleasing or agreeable, to be welcome, acceptable, to satisfy (class.). 1. In scenic lang., of players or pieces presented, to please, find favor, give satisfaction: scenico placenti

Rom. 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
......if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
......Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Outlawed:: Scaenicus I. of or belonging to the stage, scenic, dramatic, ORGANA, theatrical
I. Lit.: poëtae, dramatic poets, ludi, stage-plays, theatrical representations, : fabula, a drama,
2. Placere sibi, to be pleased or satisfied with one's self, to flatter one's self, to pride or plume one's self

I. Lit.: poëtae, dramatic poets, ludi, stage-plays, theatrical representations, : fabula, a drama, organa, Suet. Ner. 44 : coronae, id. ib. 53 : habitus, id. ib. 38 : gestus, Cic. de Or. 3, 59, 220 : modulatio Comedy. Orator

Poi-êtês II. composer of a poem, author, p. kômôidias Pl.Lg.935e ; p. kainôn dramatôn, b. composer of music, 2. author of a speech

Outlawed::Organum Vitr. 10, 1.--Of musical instruments, a pipe,. Gen. 4, 21; id. 2 Par. 34, 12 et saep.--Of hydraulic engines, an organ, water-organ: organa hydraulica,

Gen 4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.

......H8610 manipulate, figuratively to use unwarrantably:--catch, handle, (lay, take) hold (on, over), stop, X surely, surprise, take.
......H8608 taphaph to drum, that is, play (as) on the tambourine:taber, play with timbrels.H8611 tôpheth'-feth From the base of H8608 ; a smiting, that is, (figuratively) contempt:--tabret. MEANING HELL

Outlawed:: Modulatio. In partic., a rhythmical measure, modulation; hence, singing and playing, melody, in poetry and music, Quint. 9, 4, 139: modulatione produci aut corripi (verba), id. 9, 4, 89 : modulatio pedum, id. 1, 6, 2 : scenica, id. 11, 3, 57 : vocis, melody, id. 11, 3, 59 : musica, Aus. Ep. 25, 13 .

Clement of Alexandria: "After having paid reverence to the discourse about God, they leave within [at church] what they have heard. And outside they foolishly amuse themselves with impious playing, and amatory quavering (feminine vibrato), occupied with flute-playing, and dancing, and intoxication, and all kinds of trash.

Rom 15[2] unusquisque vestrum proximo suo placeat in bonum ad aedificationem [3] etenim Christus non sibi placuit sed sicut scriptum est inproperia inproperantium tibi ceciderunt super me

SPEAK by definition is the opposite of POETRY or MUSIC.

LOQUOR I. inf. loquier, p-, to talk, whisper; Gr. lak-, elakon, laskô], to speak, talk, say (in the lang. of common life, in the tone of conversation; cf. Quint. 9, 4, 10; 11, 3, 45).

1. To speak out, to say, tell, talk about, mention, utter, name: A. To speak, declare, show, indicate or express clearly:

Aedificatio III. Fig., building up, instructing, edification.
(a). Absol.: loquitur ad aedificationem, Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 3 ; 14, 26.--
(b). With gen.: ad aedificationem Ecclesiae [church], Vulg. 1 Cor. 14, 12 ; ib. Eph. 4, 12.

Eph. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists;
and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph. 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph. 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:



[linked image]
[linked image]

 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(no login)


February 24 2009, 10:57 PM 

1 Chron 25:1 MOREOVER David and the Commanders of the Army separated to the service of the sons of Asaph, and of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, with psalteries, and with cymbals: and the number of the workmen according to their service was:


And what is the MARK of that BEAST (new style singing by definition) is that he is going to ENSLAVE you by having WARRIOR PROPHESIERS:

5012. naba, naw-baw´; a primitive root; to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse):prophesy(-ing), make self a prophet.

"This is the first mention in the OT of a band of prophets. These were men who went about in companies and were able by means of music and dancing to work themselves up into a convulsive and ecstatic frenzy (2 Ki. 3:1-10).
Their abnormality was believed to be caused by the invasive influence of the spirit of god.

The word prophesied here does not mean either foretelling the future or preaching after the manner of the later prophets, but engaging in the ritual dance of the prophetic guild (19:18-24). Their behavior was commonly regarded as a form of madness (2 Ki. 9:11; Jer. 29:26)" (The Int. Bible Ency., I Sam. p. 932).

"The Hithpa'el of nb', in the ancient texts, refers to ecstasy and delirium rather than to the emission of a 'prophecy'." (de Vaux, Roland, The Bible and the Ancient Near East, p. 243 Doubleday
"Maniac inspirations, the violent possession which threw sibyls and priestesses into contortions--the foaming lip and streaming hair and glazed or glaring eyes-- have no place in the self-controlling dignity of Christian inspiration. It abhors the hysteria and stimulation and frenzy which have sometimes disgraced revivalism and filled lunatic asylums." (Pulpit Commentary, 1 Cor., p. 460).


The MILITARY-CLERGY-WARRIOR CLASS was the NATIONAL government and not a religious institute. That nation had been abandoned to worship the starry host and KINGS were given to lead the nation into captivity and death.

If you cannot grasp that CURSE including animal sacrifices, priests, kings, kingdom, temple was just like all pagan nations, then you understand (or not) why from Genesis to Revelation music is SOURCED from Lucifer to keep you Biblically illiterate and never able to move beyond picking verses from the Lexicon.

And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 1 Samuel 8:5
......But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said,
......Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. 1 Samuel 8:6

And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee:
......for they have not rejected thee,
......but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:7

Can anyone trust anyone who cannot grasp that to appeal to David is to REJECT GOD?

According to all the works which they have done
......since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day,
......wherewith they have forsaken me,
......and served other gods, do they also unto thee.

1 Samuel 8:8 Now therefore hearken unto their voice:
......howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them,
......and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them. 1 Samuel 8:9

And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king. 1 Samuel 8:10
And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you:
......He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself,
......for his chariots, and to be his horsemen;
......and some shall run before his chariots. 1 Samuel 8:11

And he will appoint him captains over thousands,
......and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground,
......and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war,
......and instruments of his chariots. 1 Samuel 8:12

Instruments of CHARIOTS are MUSICAL INSTRUMENT. The young men stolen from their farms would RUN BEFORE THE CHARIOTS make a loud NOISE never called music and be the FIRST ONES KILLED. This is identical to most pagan armies and we have pictures.

And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. 1 Samuel 8:13
And he
......will take your fields,
......and your vineyards,
......and your oliveyards, even the best of them,
......and give them to his servants. 1 Samuel 8:14


And he will take the tenth of your seed,
......and of your vineyards,
......and give to his officers,
......and to his servants. 1 Samuel 8:15

And he will take
......your menservants,
......and your maidservants,
......and your goodliest young men,
......and your asses, and put them to his work. 1 Samuel 8:16
He will take the tenth of your sheep:
......and ye shall be his servants. 1 Samuel 8:17

Human kings take, take, take, take, take and GIVE to his friends. And YOU are not going to like it.

And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you;
......and the Lord will not hear you in that day. 1 Samuel 8:18

This proves that the king was more than a military commander who could use his charism to call up an army. The full implications go further: He will make you into a SLAVE NATION just like all other NATIONS where the god's agents lived in the temple.

Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us; 1 Samuel 8:19

:The opinion of the Spirit of Christ through the prophets

And testifiedst against them, that thou mightest bring them again unto thy law:
......yet they dealt proudly,
......and hearkened not unto thy commandments,
......but sinned against thy judgments,
......(which if a man do, he shall live in them;) and withdrew the shoulder,
......and hardened their neck, and would not hear. Neh 9:29

Yet many years didst thou forbear them,
......and testifiedst against them by thy spirit in thy prophets:
......yet would they not give ear:
......therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands. Neh 9:30

Neh 9:31 Nevertheless for thy great mercies sake
......thou didst not utterly consume them, nor forsake them;
......for thou art a gracious and merciful God.
Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us;
......for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly: Neh 9:33

Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law,
......nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies,
......wherewith thou didst testify against them. Neh 9:34

For they have not served thee in their kingdom, and in thy great goodness that thou gavest them,
......and in the large and fat land which thou gavest before them,
......neither turned they from their wicked works. Neh 9:35

Behold, we are servants this day,
......and for the land that thou gavest unto our fathers eat the fruit thereof and the good thereof,
......behold, we are servants in it: Neh 9:36

And it yieldeth much increase
......unto the kings whom thou hast set over us
......because of our sins:

also they have dominion
......over our bodies,
......and over our cattle, their pleasure,
......and we are in great distress. Neh 9:37

God gave them KINGS but promised that the kings would steal all of their property and make them slaves and lead them into captivity and death.

Nehemiah by the Spirit of Christ validates ONLY THE PROPHETS who warn confirms that this is what happened.

What motive would a minister-becomes-master have for wanting to follow the PATTERNISM of David and his musical madness creators EXCEPT to take total control of your lives with a MINISTER to consume all of your surplus time and money?


 Respond to this message   
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others

FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter