Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

WHEN A CONGREGATION ELECTS TO USE INSTRUMENTS OF MUSIC IN ITS WORSHIP

February 9 2009 at 1:02 AM
John Waddey  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 72.154.193.171

WHEN A CONGREGATION ELECTS TO USE INSTRUMENTS OF MUSIC IN ITS WORSHIP



A remarkable thing has come to pass in the brotherhood of Churches of Christ. For 200 years, since our movement began here in America, our brethren praised God with their lips and steadfastly refused to joined with their religious neighbors in using instruments of music in their worship. This they did, not because they were old fashioned, obstinate or ignorant, but because they found no authority in God's Word for that practice.

For this they bore the ridicule of their neighbors and the scorn of denominational clergy. They endured a devastating apostasy and division involving the issue a century ago, yet they held fast to their biblical faith and quickly recovered the losses incurred. Now, shockingly, we hear voices among us, saying that we have been wrong in our stand. That we caused division by our stubborn refusal to allow those to use instruments who desired them. Some smile and tell us our a cappella worship is only our tradition, not something to insist upon. Others remind us it is only a relic of our frontier years. Now some twenty congregations have chosen to use instruments of music in some or all of their worship. What shall we make of this decision?

Adding instrumental accompaniment to the song worship of a congregation is only a symptom of numerous underlying problems in the hearts of those who do so.


  • It is a rejection of the authority of Christ as head over all things to the church (Eph. 1:22), which of necessity includes her worship. He nowhere authorizes it.

  • It is a rejection of the authority of the Bible in the life of their congregations. They cannot find any teaching the New Testament to justify their actions.

  • It is a matter of will-worship (Col. 2:23). Will-worship is finds its authority and justification in the mind and will of man rather than of God! They want instruments for their worship and that is sufficient reason for them to do so.

  • It is an act of arrogance. They care not what Christ, His Word or their brethren think of their decision (Is. 13:11). They vainly assume that they know better than the thousands of faithful preachers and teachers who have gone before them who concluded that God's only authorizes singing for worship! They ignore the history of Christianity which demonstrates that the use of instruments was accepted a thousand years after the beginning of the church

  • It is done to seek the favor and approval of men, to attract them to their assemblies (Gal. 1:10). They value the praises of shallow, worldly Christians and denominational visitors above the reign of Christ and their brethren.

  • It reflects a lack of fear and reverence for God. We are to worship him with reverence and awe (Heb. 12:28). In all things we are to fear God and keep his commandments (Eccle. 12: 13).

  • It is an act of presumption. For finite, sinful man to dare to change the prescribed worship of God and offer that which He has not called for is high-handed indeed (Num. 15:30).

  • It is grows out of a rebellious heart that is not willing to yield itself to the wisdom, authority and glory of the Savior. In God's sight, such rebellion is as idolatry (I Sam. 15:23).

  • To justify their use of instruments in worship, they denigrate those who went before them and the more than two and a half million members who today refuse to follow them into the dark forest of will-worship. In this they prove themselves to be unworthy members of the body of Christ.

  • Like the ancient Adversary of God's people (Rev. 12:10), they resort to accusing those who stand before them with Scripture in hand challenging their departures. They accuse them of causing the division they themselves are fomenting.

  • They blush not to sow discord and division among God's people. The terrible disruption of a century past, they ignore as they pursue their divisive agenda. They forget that God hates those who sow discord among brethren (Prov. 6:16,19).

Some years ago, Dr. David Edwin Harrell, Jr. published a booklet entitled, "Emergence of the `Church of Christ Denomination.' Discussing the apostasy of the Christian Churches and Disciples of Christ a century ago, he writes, "The simple fact of the matter was that the people within the church no longer wanted the same kind of Christianity. This was the basic issuewhat doctrinal problems arose to divide over were inconsequential" (p. 14). "Instrumental music and organized societies were in essence the accidental basis of the doctrinal division in the movement. They certainly were not the cause of the schism. The cause was that the church had grown to include incompatible kinds of people" (p. 14). "The old values of the early leaders of the movement are no longer an acceptable expression of Christianity to this sophisticated element" (p. 20). "The cultured element in the movement has simply begun the search for a more sophisticated type of religion" (p. 23). "The church is dividing because there are two basic kinds of people within the movement who are demanding two very different kinds of religion" (p. 23). These thoughts will help us better understand what we are witnessing in our day.

___________________________________
John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now

E-Mail: johnwaddey@aol.com

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

John must be making this stuff up

February 9 2009, 8:29 AM 

He doesn't like the decisions made by other Christians, so he makes up what they are really doing, and slanders and gossips against fellow Christians. Has he forgotten the grace once shown him?

 
 Respond to this message   
Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: John must be making this stuff up

December 28 2010, 6:22 PM 

Brother Ray,

If you are still "out there" in cyber world, you should not question or challenge an upright and blameless gospel preacher and should not question or challenge the teachings on this site. Brother John Waddey is our hero and chief advocate for our message. You need to be concerned about "change agents" infiltrating your church. While most C of C congregations do not have any visitors and numerical growth occuring whatsoever, the biggest problem and fear is all those "change agents" out there seeking "hostile" takeovers. We here at Concerned Members are not worried about evangelizing the lost, but in pointing out the faults of all the saved. In fact, we do not believe they are saved.

-Sonny Elliot

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.157.38.142

Re: John must be making this stuff up

December 28 2010, 9:17 PM 

It's been said that the greatest stunt Satan ever pulled was to convince the world that he didn't exist. Change agents have pulled a similar stunt by convincing many congregations that change agents and church takeovers do not exist.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: John must be making this stuff up

December 28 2010, 10:53 PM 

Sonny,

Just can't get over "your Brother" John Waddey's despicable life, can you?

During the "hostile takeover" of the Madison congregation by the "change agents" -- and this wasn't even about instrumental music -- the implementation of the services of the "Praise Team" in "worship" (among other things) was "the last straw that broke the camel's back." It alienated many members. Many members were leaving to seek fellowship elsewhere. Finally, the representing elder made this announcement to the congregation: "Get over it, we must move on [with our plan to transform Madison]."

While that ("get over it"] wasn't exactly the wisest admonition the eldership could offer the dividing congregation, I believe this would be the appropriate advice for you to accept: "Get over it -- only God knows the real John Waddey or the real Sonny Elliot."

Convince us with the real stats concerning the number of visitors and numerical growth. This I know that Community Churches have experienced "numerical" growth in the last few decades. Why do you think that is? Oh, yes, the word "community" partly explains that. A Community Church is a collection (a "gathering") of unhappy Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians and members of other religious groups within the area or region. Voila!!! Even some members of the church of Christ.

Realistically, however, of the several thousands of "congregants" (12,000 or 15,000 or 20,000) that gather, the Association of Community Churches reveals that only a very small percentage is represented by "NEW converts." Right, one church's loss is another mega Community Church's gain.

Don't forget the important fact that the thousands of congregations of the church of Christ are virtually non-instrumental.

 
 Respond to this message   
zac
(no login)
75.138.249.2

scripture

April 1 2009, 11:04 PM 

can someone give me scripture that pertains specifically to "worship" as in how it should be practiced. Where does it say we should do our communion every week? I just want to know where we get our services from a "scriptural" basis and not a traditional one. The 1st century church didn't use electricity either, should my church stop that as well. Is it okay to put crosses at the front of our church, and should I tell that lady in front of me that I'm glad she wore her best hat and jewelry so God could tell how truly dedicated she is for looking her best. Oh and I'll thank her husband (elder) for stopping that drunk at the door last week. We sure don't need any of those sinful people in our church. Oh and about those "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" doesn't the word "psalm" come from the word "psalmos" which means a song sung to the harp. All sarcasm aside. I prefer A cappella music. I just don't think it is right to condemn people for using instruments. I think you people are doing the opposite of what Jesus would do. Even if it is wrong, which it ISN'T. Jesus would have handled this way better. God Bless you. I will continue to pray for you, and the Churches of Christ.

 
 Respond to this message   
Stephen
(no login)
64.149.165.2

It doesn't matter what Waddle says.

April 4 2009, 10:33 AM 

Here is the good news in all of this God is our judge and not Waddle,Donnie, and Ken. I know what I will hear next, "No having God judge you is your worse nightmare!" WRONG! It is good news because the Bible is not a book of laws, it is a book of LOVE! Why is God a better judge? Because he shows Love, Grace, and Forgiveness! These men show no signs that they have any of these. SAD! Only when these men get out of there own ways will they really be able to see the Bible in a new light. I tend to think of these men as bouncers at a night club. They tell you what you need to do to get in the door, but have no real intentions of letting you by the red rope. This is just generation after generation of confused theology and bad understanding on what is understood as proof texting. What a horrible way to use the Bible. I bet these men have never read the Bible for any other purpose than that. SAD! In all that we do DO in the NAME OF THE LORD! Not just in your 1 hour a week with God, but all day and every day. I know for a fact that no where in the Bible does God condemn Musical Instruments. When they are used in worship, believe it our not, you won't, but they are used in the NAME OF THE LORD! When God told his disciples to go out it was to spread the Gospel! Wouldn't it be more "SCRIPTUAL" to use this website to do what God wanted us to do all along! Have you forgotten the purpose for our lives on this planet? Have you been blinded by what you think is the law and forgotten what love is? There are only two important issues to me as a Christian. 1. To be saved and give my life to God. 2. To tell others that God has sent his son and he died for our sins! That is IT! That is what God wants of us and all he asks of us. You do all of this on your own accord and not by the blessing of God. But in the end you reap what you sow. Have faith though because you are not the judge but God! Plenty of GRACE for you too!

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.157.38.142

Re: It doesn't matter what Waddle says.

December 28 2010, 9:53 PM 

His name is Waddey, not "Waddle." If you must begin your "argument" by deliberately butchering someone's name to ridicule them, then your "argument" is already weak.

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.13

Challenge for Stephen.

December 28 2010, 10:26 PM 

Stephen, unless you can explain the TRUE GOSPEL of Jesus Christ you MAY not be a disciple!

Matt. 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said,
......I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
......because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent,
......and hast revealed them unto babes.

Before you spend too much time being loving and judgmental, can you tell us WHO ARE the Wise from whom God HIDES His will?

Matt. 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Matt. 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
......neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son,
......and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

If God HIDES Himself from the WISE. It is a soul-saving question: who ARE the Wise.
If the Son REVEALS truth to the NOT-WISE, how can you make sure Christ even knows your name?
Maybe you can speculate the CONDITIONS for Jesus to REVEAL Himself?

Matt. 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

How and where do you "come to Jesus?"
What is the meaning of "labor" and "heavy laden?"
What is the meaning of the "rest" Jesus gives us?
From what and whom does He give us rest?

Matt. 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart:
......and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matt. 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

What do we do when we Rest and Learn of me?
What do you think a CONDITION for Jesus to be our only Teacher?

Because you are so certain, I would expect you to answer these questions in a few minutes or retract.


 
 Respond to this message   
Roncar
(no login)
98.81.68.89

Re: Challenge for Stephen.

December 28 2010, 11:10 PM 

Ken, it has been about 20 months since Stephen has posted. He may not be available at this very moment.happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Roncar Dead On It!

December 29 2010, 9:54 AM 

Roncar,
You might say that what we have here is the ole 'leap before you look' fallacy. I don't believe Ken looks at dates. He just roams around a bit, 'seeking whom he may devour.'

 
 Respond to this message   
Rocnar
(no login)
98.81.69.189

Re: Challenge for Stephen.

January 26 2011, 6:27 PM 

Ken, I'm sorry, my brother was wrong about that. It was actually Dr. Crump leading that attack on Stephen and you were just following the Doctor's lead. I bet you have some "lessons learned" on that. LOL!

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.45

Name is generic:

December 29 2010, 11:10 AM 

I was updating my paper on Music IS the laded burden of people who TAKE the kingdom or YOUR church house. Steve will pop in and answer because he was my only hope to find someone who has a clue.

Anyone is welcome to see if they pass the minimal entrance exam to determine whether they ARE a resting believer or a Captive-Carper
.
I think anyone who mocks the Word cannot be be a disciple of Christ.

I say that NONE of you can pass the exam to enter Jesus School, nursery level.

 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Children and Nursery Level

December 29 2010, 11:44 AM 

Nursery level you say?
Ken?

Ken, just remember about 'nursery level.'

Matthew 18:3
And he said: Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

I would certainly be on that level, than to be know it all hypocrite.

Know what I mean?


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.143

Hypocrites DON'T KNOW--That's why they SANG-uh!

December 29 2010, 2:22 PM 

[linked image]
[linked image]

 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.147

Blasphemers?

December 30 2010, 1:36 PM 

Those who despise the WORD by fabricating their own define the Scribes and Pharisees: Jesus called them hypocrites by Quoting Christ in the Prophets to include entertainment speakers, singers and musicians. Christ in Jeremiah defines them as BLASPHEMERS:

Jer 23:16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts,
......Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you;
......they make you vain:
......they speak a vision of their own heart,
......and not out of the mouth of the Lord.

Miriam and the Levites "prophesied with musical instruments." A prophetes is one who speaks for a god and INTERPRETS his will to men, an expounder of his will, temple clergy, "Mousans" or musicians "singing the praises of agod."

Plato, Phaedrus [262d] ]the two discourses contain an example of the way in which one who knows the truth may lead his hearers on with sportive words; and I, Phaedrus, think the divinities of the place are the cause thereof; and perhaps too, the prophets of the Muses, who are singing above our heads, may have granted this boon to us by inspiration; at any rate, I possess no art of speaking.

Jer 23:17 They say still unto them that despise me,
......The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace;
......and they say unto every one that walketh
......after the imagination of his own heart,
......No evil shall come upon you.

Despise tthe Word of God is:
...... Blasphmo , re,
...... I. v.a., = blasphme (eccl. Lat.), to revile, reproach, Vulg. 1 Par. 20, 7; God and divine things,
......to blaspheme: Christum, Prud. Apoth. 415: nomen Domini,


By using your own imagination and enhancements

Prvtas , tis, f. pravus, I. crookedness, inequality, irregularity, deformity
a distorting of the mouth in speaking, impropriety in speaking, in gestures,

Orto , 1. Speech, the power or faculty of speech, the habit or use of language:
quae (ferae) sunt rationis et orationis expertes,


Jer 23:18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord,
......and hath perceived and heard his word?
......who hath marked his word, and heard it?

Jer 23:19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury,
......even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.

Turbo to throw into disorcer,

Jer 23:20 The anger of the Lord shall not return,
......until he have executed,
......and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart:
......in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.

Jer 23:21 I have not sent these prophets,
......yet they ran:
......I have not spoken to them,
......yet they prophesied.
Jer 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel,
......and had caused my people to hear my words,
......then they should have turned them from their evil way,
......and from the evil of their doings.

 
 Respond to this message   
David Gustafson
(Login DavidGustafson)
207.157.10.118

Electricity

March 2 2011, 3:15 PM 

WHEN A CONGREGATION ELECTS TO USE electricity IN ITS WORSHIP

A remarkable thing has come to pass in the Churche of Christ denomination. For 200 years, since the Church of Christ denomination began here in America, our brethren praised God with their lips and steadfastly refused to joined with their religious neighbors in using electricity in their worship. This they did, not because they were old fashioned, obstinate or ignorant, but because they found no authority in God's Word for that practice.

 
 Respond to this message   
David Gustafson
(Login DavidGustafson)
207.157.10.118

Re: WHEN A CONGREGATION ELECTS TO USE INSTRUMENTS OF MUSIC IN ITS WORSHIP

March 2 2011, 3:26 PM 

Adding the use of electricity worship of a congregation is only a symptom of numerous underlying problems in the hearts of those who do so.


It is a rejection of the authority of Christ as head over all things to the church (Eph. 1:22), which of necessity includes her worship. He nowhere authorizes the use of electricity in worship.


It is a rejection of the authority of the Bible in the life of their congregations. They cannot find any teaching the New Testament to justify their actions.


It is a matter of will-worship (Col. 2:23). Will-worship is finds its authority and justification in the mind and will of man rather than of God! They want the use of electricity for their worship and that is sufficient reason for them to do so.


It is an act of arrogance. They care not what Christ, His Word or their brethren think of their decision (Is. 13:11). They vainly assume that they know better than the thousands of faithful preachers and teachers who have gone before them who concluded that God does not authorizes the use of electricity in worship! They ignore the history of Christianity which demonstrates that the use of electricity was accepted a thousand years after the beginning of the church


It is done to seek the favor and approval of men, to attract them to their assemblies (Gal. 1:10). They value the praises of shallow, worldly Christians and denominational visitors above the reign of Christ and their brethren.


It reflects a lack of fear and reverence for God. We are to worship him with reverence and awe (Heb. 12:28). In all things we are to fear God and keep his commandments (Eccle. 12: 13). Nowhere in the Bible does God commands the use of electricity in worship and the legalistic patternists know that.


It is an act of presumption to use electricity in worship. For finite, sinful man to dare to change the prescribed worship of God and offer that which He has not called for is high-handed indeed (Num. 15:30).


It is grows out of a rebellious heart that is not willing to yield itself to the wisdom, authority and glory of the Savior. In God's sight, such rebellion is as idolatry (I Sam. 15:23).


To justify their use of electricity in worship, they denigrate those who went before them and the more than two and a half million members who today cannot follow them into the dark forest of will-worship and use electricity in worship. In this they prove themselves to be unworthy members of the body of Christ.


Like the ancient Adversary of God's people (Rev. 12:10), they resort to accusing those who stand before them with Scripture in hand challenging their departures. They accuse them of causing the division they themselves are fomenting.


They blush not to sow discord and division among God's people. The terrible disruption of a century past, they ignore as they pursue their divisive agenda. They forget that God hates those who sow discord among brethren (Prov. 6:16,19).


 
 Respond to this message   
Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.16

authority

March 2 2011, 4:40 PM 

Churches of Christ, like all church fathers and founders of denominations rejected instruments for several simple reasons.

They understood that in ALL of the instrumental passages people are contriving to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter."

http://www.piney.com/Amos-Five.html

Furthermore, they KNEW that none of the Bible was metrical and was never and could be sung in the modern tuneful sense: sing or cantillate is "using the normal inflections of the human voice." You see, the purpose was to TEACH the Prophets and Apostless. You cannot even halluciate a "praise service" in the school of Christ.

NO ONE sang tunefully with or without instruments until after the Reformation: then some Psalms (only) had to be recomposed and then sung in unison.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Apples vs. Oranges: Musical Instruments vs. Electricity

March 3 2011, 1:04 AM 

David,

It's plagiarism -- almost. So, it was easy for you to simply substitute "it" (electricity) for instrumental music and then present John Waddey's bullet points as your own. (You may ask next time for some HTML lesson regarding the use of bullet points for emphasis.)

Your comparison between electricity and musical instruments does not compute:


APPLES not = ORANGES


Let me tell you the difference:

(1) Musical devices are PLAYED by music lovers and performers

------------------- versus --------------------

(2) Electricity is never to be PLAYED with.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
< Previous Page 1 2 Next >
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter