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FALSE TEACHING: that the Church divided over Society and Instruments.

March 14 2009 at 6:38 PM
Ken Sublett  (no login)
from IP address

This is in response to the following false claims made by all of those deliberately discording Churches of Christ.

The bad habit of making ones opinions out to be the commands of God did not really take root in the Churches of Christ until the split over instrumental music and missions came about and the most extreme among us took control, some one hundred years ago. A short time when considering churches. Maybe a hundred years from now, Churches of Christ can look back on the last hundred years as a temporary wondering in the wilderness.

This is the almost-total mantra of those trying to UNITE that which never EXISTED: as a guilt trip the effort is to continue the discord in an attempt to convert those to the use of instruments who NEVER used instruments: not even in their Catholic roots did anyone do "congregational singing with instrumental accompaniment." Those organs introduced into Cathedrals but NOT by the priests were used by monks and professionals. That is where they got their foot into the door by continuing their entertainment as PROCESSIONALS, intermissions and recessionals. In fact, the Catholics had never sliped into any form of tuneful singing because the Bible is not meltrical and cannot be sung in a tuneful sense. It was protestants who added singing as an ACT even while men like Zwingli resisted: in order to sing any of the Bible it has to be rewritten and do violence to many of the psalms.

"Melody as tunefulness belongs to the 19th century" and even now means "a series of single notes." Melody has no connection to HARMONY. Harmonia in the Greek of the time still meant nothing more than UNISON singing of a scale whose notes in the Greek was "the normal inflections of the human voice." Harmony as MOVING TOGETHER also had a sexual or "goose clapping" meaning so that the lust has always been to FORCE people to MOVE TOGETHER where the music word DEMANDS dance.

The false mantra is that the Church of Christ sectarianed out of the Christian Church in the 1906 census. Surprise! The Christian church did not exist in 1906 and would not BEGIN to sect out of the Disciples until 1927 and finally DIScounted by the Disciples in 1971. So, why would you believe the slander against the Church of Christ when the Christian Church sected out of the Disciples and therefore split the DISCIPLES. Good for them: those now pushing confiscation under the ploy of "unity" meetings cannot even feel honest. They gave confiscation up after massive sowing of discord after 25 years of almost total failure. Some of them have expressed regret over the extended effort to CONVERT happy churches to instruments because the division is worse than before: that is what happens when you tie the tails of two cats together and hang them on a clothesline. Union is NOT unity and scratches abound. Subverting about a dozen congregations out of numbers which may be 18000 congreations world-wide has had the DESIRED RESULT that lots of Biblical and Historical rebuttals have giving the non-instrumental churches more material from Genesis to Revelation and all of recorded history which will work better than "a law of singing" and Gopher wood. wink.gif

The Christian Church SHOULD be UNITED with the Disciples of Christ if they want to restore the only thing busted. They will not because most of them never believed in the denominational structure or society TO WHICH the Church of Christ was never UNITED. However, they retained six or seven things that the Church of Christ would not approve of. That's their right: both they and the betrayers of their own congregations do not have the right to blame the Church of Christ none of whose ROOTS used instruments and many of them wrote the best material LONG BEFORE 1906: namely the Presbyterians who first began their writings when the Scotch Presbyterian State church adopted instruments and the same STATE organization as the State church of England. These "worship" rituals like the Temple in Jerusalem were STATE SERVICES like Washington Cathedral. The first Free Black Methodist church added instruments when DIVISION caused them to be short of cash: they held performances with instruments and it worked so well that they brought them INTO the house.

The NACC had begun their guilt trip even before 1927 planting O.E.Payne's book into key Church of Christ hands: I have an original copy with "return after reading demand." This allowed Hardeman to trick them into in the Boswell-Hardeman debates. Maybe Donnie can track down Dr. Crump's review at CM which means Center of Meaning. This is based on Payne's collection of all of the PSALLO passages: too bad, too sad they ALL point to older males trying to seduce a younger male! Even then, psallo a warfare and pollution word EXCLUDES anything but plucking a string with your FINGERS.

J.F.Burnett in 1921 refuting what became The Stone-Campbell Movement.

After another effort to confiscate churches H. Leo Boles wrote in 1939

You can find Al Maxey's denying Boles' his right to explain that unity never existed and cannot exist and need not exist any more than uniting with the Presbyterns.

Boles speaks of "unity" from 1832 to 1849 but that consisted only of the few churches which met together. John Smith defines the "terms" of that agreement to agree but this agreement was quickly violated by the Disciples or Christian Churches when the Baptist converts demanded an organizational structure.

To even say Stone-Campbell Movement (a Leroy Garrett scam) is to mislead people. Boles notes that in 1934 after the "meeting" in 1932.

"In The Christian Messenger for November, 1834, is quoted an article from the Millennial Harbinger (Campbell's paper) as follows:

"Or does he (Stone) think that one or two individuals, of and for themselves, should propose and effect a formal union among the hundred of congregations scattered over this continent, called Christians or Disciples, without calling upon the different congregations to express an opinion or a wish upon the subject?

We discover, or think we discover, a squinting at some sort of precedency or priority in the claims of the writer of the above article," etc.

"It is well known that Mr. Campbell insisted upon immersion before believers were received into fellowship, to which Stone answered:

"We cannot, with our present views, unite on the opinions that unimmersed persons cannot receive remission of sins."

And though later on he came to believe in immersion in water for the remission of sins, there is no evidence that he ever made it a test of fellowship, without which he could not have been a member of the Disciples of Christ.

That is absolute proof that Stone was the SECT who refused to be UNITED with anyone teaching the Biblical demand for baptism FOR the remission of sins."

JWMcgarvey on The Organ Question notes that:

Up to the year 1869 the churches of disciples, with possibly a few obscure exceptions had abstained from the use of instrumental music in their public worship,

and the preachers with no publicly known exceptions were opposed to it.
It was opposed by some as being inexpedient, and by others as being unscriptural.

Minimal, bare-bone honesty would insist that having a vew UNITE on terms which CAMPBELL approved, denied that the the terms which Stone repudiated meant unity but only "ability to meet at times on the TERMS articulated by John Smith in the Boles paper". Because the Christians ADDED the missionary society with a first attempt not long afterward and then IMPOSED instruments in a few of THEIR congregations even the agreement AMONG THE FEW was betrayed and made even assemblying together when the organ pumped impossible. Only a few churches of Christ even agreed to "meeting together on Sunday Morning" because the Disciples-Christian church had more Anglican roots. Campbell preached anywhere he was invited but demanded that the organ be silenced.

Therefore, it is really a bad lie to blame the Church of Christ with its Baptist and Presbyterian roots with SECTING OUT of that which they NEVER UNITED. That is why the NACC seduced only those who were ALREADY DETERMINED to "lift up and move" (meaning heresy) that which belonged to the OWNERS into "unity" with the Christian Churches which "unity" NEVER existed at any time or place. If I visit a Baptist church which uses instruments no one can say that I am therefore UNITED with them.

The Stoneites adopted the Shouting Methodists and the "music" thing which really got started at Cane Ridge when the powerful singing and polyrhythmic hand clapping of the Black groups had a huge effect on people. My wife's roots at the time of Cane Ridge, Flemingsburg etal resulted in the Pilgrim Holiness Church.

At that time Stone held not a single thing in common with what became the Church of Christ. He was willing to silence all doctrinal discussion because he believed that UNITY was the only important thing. However, never ever was their unity with Stone's beliefs: even Stone was forced to change when the charismatic altar call in Alabama utterly failed: when they began to preach baptism (understood by any mother with her Bible) the people found relief from their real and felt guilt.

MARK IT DOWN: those who sow discord by claiming that the Church of Christ was a sectarian split off the Church of Christ are NOT going to tell you the truth about anything.

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Ken is right

March 15 2009, 3:26 PM 

It was people like Ken, people who imposed their opinions as doctrine on other Christians, and condemned as false teachers any who disagreed with their opinions who caused the Church to divide.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: Ken is right

March 16 2009, 11:56 AM 

Apparently "Anonymous" thinks that people do not sow discord when they railroad instruments into traditional churches of Christ to "accompany" and "enhance" the singing and when they add praise teams, drama, skits, and other worldly gimmicks to entertain the membership and make a mockery of worship. No, that's not sowing discord at all, is it?

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Ken Sublett
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Psalm 149: proof text and MARK

March 16 2009, 5:22 PM 

All of the musicators love to appeal to David's naked dance with the boys and girls as their FOUNDATION GARMENT. They also love to use those "making self vile" Psalms as absolute proof that what David did as a king worshiping the starry host as a new form of worship IMPOSED beyond the Law of Moses when the elders HIRED themselves a king as a new Senior Preaching Person. God loves to fool fools and they cannot catch on to the fact that Jesus spoke in parables for the kings and priestly class to keep them ignorant even while the prophets were condemning them as robbers and parasites. THEY contrary to David wrote by the Spirit of Christ. If you worship with Jimmy Joe, here is the approved Davidic Choir and Dance robe:

[linked image]

Here is a PATTERNISM for next week's worship service (expensive hard bondage) while the CHRISTIANS are reverently preached the Word by READ IT.

Psa. 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints.
Psa. 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psa. 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance:
........let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.

Praise is h1986 Halal source of LUCIFER.

[linked image]


H2342 chûl khool, kheel A primitive root; properly to twist or whirl (in a circular or spiral manner), that is, (specifically) to dance, to writhe in pain (especially of parturition) or fear; figuratively to wait, to pervert:bear, (make to) bring forth, (make to) calve, dance, drive away, fall grievously (with pain), fear, form, great, grieve, (be) grievous, hope, look, make, be in pain, be much (sore) pained, rest, shake, shapen, (be) sorrow (-ful), stay, tarry, travail (with pain), tremble, trust, wait carefully (patiently), be wounded.

Psa. 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
Psa. 149:5 Let the saints be joyful in glory:
........let them sing aloud upon their beds.

Jimmy Joe doesn't know that when his preachers say that there was nothing wrong with the worship condemned by Amos but a BAD MENTAL ATTITUDE they forget to tell you that both father and mother went into the same temple prostitute. David was before the temple but the singers and players playing around any sacrificial altar were prostitutes and Sodomites often permitted holy whores.

Because ALL of the prophets condemn the kings, priests and false "prophesiers" it is absolute fact that Amos condemns them for following in the paths of DAVID and using instruments or weapons of music.

Amos 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Amos 6:4 That
........lie upon beds of ivory,
........and stretch themselves upon their couches,
........and eat the lambs out of the flock,
........and the calves out of the midst of the stall;
Amos 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol,
........and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

[linked image]

Note that Psalm 149 bed is derived from Leviticus 18:22 bed. That is what you DO when you are abandoned to worship the starry host: the Queen of Heaven, the mother of harlots.

Lev. 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

The translators into the GREEK knew all about David and the worship of Dionysus or Bacchus still conducted by the MEN Jesus called CHILDREN piping, singing and dancing.

Psal-tikos A. of or for harp playing, ps. organon a stringed instrument USED WITH A or secret worship, of the rites of Bacchus, Ekthusia, breaking out. Meaning the WRATH Paul put down by silencing the women and where no decent male would be outed by singing and playing instruments.

Phallikos, ê, on, of or for the phallos: to ph. (sc. MELOS) the phallic song, Phallikos, ê, on, of or for the phallos: to ph. (sc. MELOS) the phallic song, Means Acappella

David's LOVE can mean nothing else! When he went naked with the camp followers it is clearly noted as ACTING A FEMALE'S PART. That defines ALL of the Levites who "prophesied" with psalteries -- a woman's instrument.

This shout is similar to the "vocal and instrumental" rejoicing which is OUTLAWED for the Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness. Even Jimmy's retarded brother would not mumble when we meet to listen at the feet of Jesus?

H7442 rânan raw-nan' A primitive root; properly to creak (or emit a stridulous sound), 2. tremulous sound of a mast or pole "Shaken by the wind" also the sound of a torrent. Vibrate the voice TRILL which is the WOMEN'S sound of Halal above.

Sug-krousis , eôs, hê, collision, anemôn Thphr. Vent.53 ; hoplôn [Carnal Weapon] Onos.26.1 ; [atomôn], nephôn, Epicur.Ep.1p.8U., 2p.45U., cf. Diog.Oen.33; of ships, D.C.49.1; hiatus or concurrence, phônêentôn

........2. metaph., collision, conflict,
........II. in Music, rapid alternation of two notes, trill,
........III. Rhet., collision of contradictory statements,

........Phoneeis 2.musical, of the lyre, 3. of a song, sounding,Pi.O.9.2.

........Pindar, Olympian 9.[1] The resounding strain of Archilochus, the swelling thrice-repeated song of triumph, sufficed to lead Epharmostus to the hill of Cronus, in victory-procession with his dear companions. [5] But now, from the bow of the Muses who, shooting from afar, send a shower of such arrows of song as these on Zeus of the red lightning-bolt and on the sacred height of Elis, Arouse for them a clear-sounding path of song; praise wine that is old, but praise the flowers of songs [49] that are new.

Psallo spoke of shooting real arrows and LOVE ARROWS: both from Apollo or Apollyon.

Elelizô [epic lengthd. form of helissô]I. to whirl round, Od.
........2. to rally soldiers, Il.: Pass., hoi d' elelichthêsan id=Il.
........3. generally, to make to tremble or quake, . to tremble, quiver, wink.gif
........II. Mid. and Pass. to move in coils or spires, of a serpent,

Helisso whirl in th edance

Bacchae Chorus:


Where on Nysa, which nourishes wild beasts, or on Corycian heights, do you lead with your thyrsos the bands of revelers? [560] Perhaps in the deep-wooded lairs of Olympus, where Orpheus once playing the lyre drew together trees by his songs, drew together the beasts of the fields. [565] Blessed Pieria, the Joyful one reveres you and will come to lead the dance in revelry; having crossed the swiftly flowing Axius he will bring the [570] whirling Maenads, leaving Lydias, giver of wealth to mortals, the father who they say fertilizes the land of beautiful horses with [575] fairest streams.


Psa. 149:6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
........and a twoedged sword in their hand;
Psa. 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen,
........and punishments upon the people;
Psa. 149:8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
Psa. 149:9 To execute upon them the judgment written:
........this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD. [Yah like Yo!]

One of the MARKS of the beast is "a new style singing or drama."


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Ken Sublett
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Why STRAIGHT people flee Babylon

March 21 2009, 8:39 PM 

You need to to grasp that from Genesis to Revelation the Bible points to pagan religions to repudiate them and to define the synagogue or church in the wilderness for all decent and righteous people to come and learn of Christ the Spirit. Here is a bit of data which defines that which the Monarchy did when God abandoned them to worship the starry host.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

The MARK which made many flee from your presence leaving all behind was the NEW WINESKIN theme including a New Style of Singing which is defined as one of the MARKS OF THE BEASTS.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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