WATCH OUT FOR THE TULSA WORKSHOP

http://www.piney.com/TulsaWorkshop.html

The usual line up of FALSE TEACHINGS and SINGERS fill the program at the Tulsa Soulstealing Workout this year as usual.

Even those who have lied, cheated snd stolen the church houses of widows get return billing probably because the likes of Jeff Walling fills everyone with mirth by his buffoonery. Isn't it amazing that WRATH in Hebrew is marked by jesters and buffoons and wrath or ORGY in Greek identify the singers, clappers, instrument players and hand flangers as a MARK.

Ezekiel speaking by the Spirit of Christ warns about the prophesiers holding workshop and "stealing words from one another." They think that their lies can force people to remember Christ's NAME. Rots of ruck as we used to san in Japan.

Careful Ken. A jump off the deep end like this could get yourself hurt.

Did you attend this year? If not, how might you substantiate your claims?

If the above mentioned in your post are truly sinners, have you confronted them according to scripture? If not, why not?

Ken, do you consider churches (any denomination whether it be Baptist, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Nondenominational, etc.) that use musical instruments in their worship to be apostate churches and the people within them not to be authentic Jesus-loving Christians? I don't need alot of long winded explanation just a simple YES or NO will suffice.

2 Cor 11:1 WOULD to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.

Paul speaks of Eve in the sense of a BRIDE espoused but BEGUILED. Now, Eve didn't EAT an apple. Ezekiel 31 says that the Assyrians were the Tallest Trees in the garden of Eden.

2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2 Cor 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Simplicity is hard to find in the days of performance religion which blinds you to the Words of God:

G572 haplots hap-lot'-ace From G573 ; singleness, that is, (subjectively) sincerity (without dissimulation or self seeking), or (objectively) generosity (copious bestowal):bountifulness, liberal (-ity), simplicity, singleness.

Deceiving usually produces a sexual influence through the performing arts replacing the true Bible Teacher.

Exapataô deceive or beguile, deceive thoroughly, surround yourself with compassion for your swindling tricks, [color=red]seduce a woman, Hdt.2.114

AS A RESULT OF THIS SEDUCTION:

1 John 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning,

Disciple of Christ: that we should love one another.

Disciple of the Devil:Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brothers righteous. 1 John 3:12

G3834 panourgia pan-oorg-ee'-ah From G3835 ; adroitness, that is, (in a bad sense) trickery or sophistry:(cunning) craftiness, subtilty.

The serpent was a Musical Enchanter or enchantress.

Here is an example of what Paul meant:

Heredotus 2.CXIV. As soon as he received the intelligence, Thonis sent a message to Proteus, who was at Memphis, to this effect: "A stranger is arrived from Greece; he is by race a Teucrian, and has done a wicked deed in the country from which he is come. Having beguiled the wife of the man whose guest he was, he carried her away with him, and much treasure also. Compelled by stress of weather, he has now put in here. Are we to let him depart as he came, or shall we seize what he has brought?" Proteus replied, "Seize the man, be he who he may, that has dealt thus wickedly with his friend, and bring him before me, that I may hear what he will say for himself."

This is what happens when the Viper Race try to STEAL THE BRIDE OF CHRIST!

"They "set their lies to melodies in order to deceive the simple minded" always the LOWEST CLASS in the Classics.

In the Garden, the serpent was the.

H5175 nâchâsh naw-khawsh' From H5172 ; a snake (from its hiss):serpent.

H5172 nâchash naw-khash' A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.

H5173 nachash nakh'-ash From H5172 ; an incantation or augury:enchantment.

1) snake, serpent

2) with the ancients, the serpent was an emblem of cunning and wisdom. The serpent who deceived Eve was regarded by the Jews as the devil.

The Ancient tribes absorbed NAGA worship from Persia and India and Moses is trying to warn a people already fallen under the spell:

http://www.piney.com/naga.html

In the Greek:.G2789 the serpent is



In Fourth Maccabees 18, the Devil works on a sexual, seducing way and in the garden was a Musical Enchanter(ess).

4Macc 18:6 - The mother of seven sons expressed also these principles to her children:

4Macc 18:7 - "I was a pure virgin and did not go outside my father's house;
but I guarded the rib from which woman was made.

4Macc 18:8 - No seducer corrupted me on a desert plain, nor did the destroyer, the deceitful serpent, defile the purity of my virginity.

Jesus and John will call the Scribes and Pharisees Hypocrites they were called a RACE OF VIPERS. They would be baptized with a VIOLENT WIND and then OF FIRE as the chaff is burned up as worthless.

Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

They also called them a CROOKED RACE. The viper or serpent, like much of the whole Bible, points outside of itself to people who would know where to LOOK if they cared. Both the Jews and later Christians woudl be able to look to the "bible" of the pagan religions as assuredly John points to a well known series of "legends" or stories the "preachers" told them. Pointing to the beast from the sea;

Echidna (Greek: "Snake"), monster of Greek mythology, half-woman, half-serpent. Her parents were either the sea deities Phorcy. A child, Ladon (the dragon who protected the Golden Apples of the Hesperides), metaph., of a treacherous wife or friend.

This monster was involved as craftsmen of the sacrificial system: A viper came out of the blaze and "then the venom, like that of some deadly, cruel viper, began to devour him."

Remember that the TECHNE in Revelation 18 is connected to the religious speakers, singers and instrument players John called Sorcerers. The techne includes all of these religious arts and crafts including "theater building and stage managing." Sure: standing in the "holy place" claiming to lead you into the presence of God.

tektonos 3. master in any art, as in gymnastics, Pi.N.5.49; of poets, tektones sophoi (sc. epeôn) Id.P.3.113; tektones eupalamôn humnôn Cratin.70 (ap.Ar.Eq.530); tektones kômôn, i.e. the choreutai, Pi.N. 3.4; t. nôdunias, i.e. a physician, Id.P.3.6; dexias cheros ergon, dikaias tektonos a true workman, A.Ag.1406.

When the viper came out of the fire and bit Paul this is not just an event in history. Maybe we will speak of the CRAFTY HYPOCRITES which is the MARK of the Serpent.

What just happened?

can anyone explain Psalm 150

zac,

First, here's the text:

• [1] Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
  
• [2] Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
  
• [3] Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
  
• [4] Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
  
• [5] Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
  
• [6] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD
  
  

Now, some explanation:

It is a list of the following instruments, antiquated or not:

--- trumpet
--- psaltery
--- harp
--- timbrel
--- stringed instruments
--- organs
--- loud cymbals
--- high sounding cymbals

David was a skilled musician, a nudist and a dancer -- some of his personal achievements.

David was king of Israel who ORDAINED musical instruments. You can read about that in II Chron. 29:27. By the way, II Chron. 29 should be pretty revealing to those who are musical-device enthusiasts in that it presents a perspective of the practice that the musical instruments were used IN CONJUNCTION WITH blood sacrifices and burnt offerings. So, it is conclusive that Psalm 150 is not the only passage that lists different instruments. And so does II Chronicles 29.

Surprised that intrumentalists seem to ignore that "DANCE" is also mentioned in Psalm 150? It's right in that chapter. So, music is often associated with dancing.

Surprised that verse 6, according to Davids personal preferences, mentions that even your favorite pet(s) can "praise the Lord"? It says, "Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD."

Well, your living, breathing pet animals are exhorted by king David to "praise the Lord."

One important thing to note is that David did not have a congregation. If he did, I would have no idea which church that would be.

Does it mean that David was evil because of his love for music and musical devices? Of course, not! What would you expect from someone who is talented and musically-inclined? I'd say that my musical skills are very limited, but I have instrumental music tendencies also. Does it mean I should promote instrumental music when the New Testament saints gather for an assembly? Of course, not!

So, in discussing whether or not inanimate, lifeless, soul-less musical devices should be allowed to participate in the assembly, Psalm 150 would not pass the test.

Are you saying that in the OT instrumental worship and dancing were okay, but since Jesus they are not? Can you show scripture to support what Jesus had to say on this issue and where is there a scripture to support that instruments were okay in the old law and not okay since Jesus restored the Church.

Christ's Sacrifice does cover the bulls...etc. It doesn't cover the instruments. God never specifically said anything about them but neither did he say anything about the lifeless, heartless, song books, pews, microphones, air conditioning, worship announcements, lights, clothing, jewelry, and numerous other things we use in our modern day worship. I'm not sure being silent where the bible is silent is always the best argument. I know you have an argument for this just like all the others, but here is the thing. The God I worship is truly being worshiped by me and others, and He knows that. He will not condemn me for true worship even if I do use instruments. God can be worshiped and praised in every manner of my life. True worship comes from within no matter what is going on around me on the outside. David got that. Have you never been so happy or worshipful, or moved by God that you couldn't control your emotions? Sometimes when you hit that place where you feel so close to God there is no way you can keep from dancing, clapping, singing, crying, hitting your knees, raising your hands. I am so sorry if you have never experienced this. I bet some of you are sports fans, or fans of something. When your team wins the big game, or your kid hits that home run you know you can't contain yourself. Yet when you feel close to the God who loves you, and saved you, and blesses you, you sit there like a knot on a log. Now like I said worship comes from within so If you are worshiping on the inside but somehow you can do that without letting it show because that's who you are then fine, but do not tell others that God is unhappy with them when they are joyful to be His servants.

zac,

The "law of silence" has been misused and abused in so many ways. It's been misused for the argument that the Scripture does not say "NOT TO"; therefore, it means God's approval or authorization.

I often hear this argument: "The Bible does not say 'not to use instrumental music'; therefore, God does not prohibit its use." Well, the Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not worship 'The Virgin Mary, Mother of God,'" does it? Well, the Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not have a pope as your 'God on earth,'" does it?

The use of air conditioning, toilets, buildings, pews, kitchens, lights, etc., being EQUATED WITH the participation of instrumental music in the "teaching and admonishing one another" in songs or being EQUATED WITH the worship of "The Virgin Mary, Mother of God" or being EQUATED WITH revering the papal throne ... is a fallacious and dangerous form of an argument.

In essence, the comparison between: (a) AIDS versus (b) ADDITIONS is exactly as follows:

APPLES not = ORANGES

zac, no one is stopping you from the way you worship. You can invite a school's cheerleading squad to your worship if you feel the need to uplift your spirit with their performances. Just be aware that the cheerleaders are "external forces" even though you say that "worship comes from within." Right?

And who am I to evaluate or assess your sincerity and devotion? But then, again, who gives the directive? Is it you or another human being? Or, is it God?

Where do you define instruments as additions and not aids. I would call them aids. Just like a pitch pipe. The instrument helps you keep time and the key and also helps the music dynamically (or aids). Also I think worshipping mary and the pope would be covered in the OT. Something about "You shall have no other gods before me".

Donnie,

I appreciate your sharing your Determining Aids and Additions chart with the rest of us here at Concerned Members. However, I do have a question regarding how it is that you determined the Mans Response part in your chart. For to be honest, at first glance, there seems to be some inconsistency as to the answers included in that column of your chart.

First, wouldnt mans response to utilizing song books be to read and sing rather than just sing? Which, according to your chart, would mean that this is not what was commanded; therefore song books should be classified as an addition not an aid.

Second, wouldnt mans response to utilizing pitch pipes be to blow and sing rather than just sing? Which, according to your chart, would mean that this is not what was commanded; therefore pitch pipes should be classified as an addition not an aid.

Third, wouldnt mans response to utilizing microphones be to wear and sing, stand in front of and sing or hold and sing? Which, again, according to your chart is not what was commanded; therefore microphones should be classified as an addition not an aid.

Could you please address the above inconsistencies included in your chart? If you do not feel that these are actual inconsistencies, please explain the difference between read and sing, blow and sing, wear, stand in front of, hold and sing and play and sing and how you determine the first three to be aids but the last one an addition.

Chris,

I find it interesting that you did not bring up the other examples pertaining to the baptistery and the church building. Thanks for the question. I would respond briefly for now as follows:

I would pick on man's response to "PLAY."

• The instruments are not in question so far as their being in the midst of an assembly alone is concerned.
  
• . . . and true also as in the case of other objects (song books, pitch pipe, microphones).
  
• The argument comes up when PLAYING the instruments is involved.
  
• Since PLAYING the [musical] object is the point of contention, let's use the same rule for the other objects:
  
• We do not PLAY with songbooks as we sing; we read the words to speak or vocalize the hymn -- which hopefully is pertinent to letting "the word of Christ dwell in us richly in songs." Of course, if we don't need the songbooks to aid us in singing, the better it is.
  
• We do not PLAY with the pitch pipe as we sing. It aids to determine the tone of the first note. After that determination, the pipe no longer aids the singing.
  
• The contention that the pitch pipe is another form of a musical instrument is invalid. It can be validated only if there is a pitch pipe with the prepared tone to correspond to each musical note so that there will be multiples of pitch pipes available that are capable of playing the entire hymn. That would require a lot of rehearsals to create music out of several pitch pipes. [I realize Im being facetious but hopefully the point is understood.]
  
• Same principle applicable to microphones as is to the pitch pipes. We do not PLAY with the microphones, do we? Don't we know that a microphone is useful as an aid so that when God's message is delivered, it can be heard?
  
  

Again, PLAYING is the key element in all points of argumentation here. As already mentioned, we do not PLAY with microphones, songbooks or pitch pipes. If they're played with, then, they too can become additions. After all, singing is only one of the avenues of letting "the word of Christ dwell in us richly," of "teaching and admonishing one another," of "speaking to yourselves," according to Col. 3:16 and Eph. 5:19.

Frankly, we often lose sight of the fact that even singing is not the key directive stated in those passages. Rather, it is the "TEACHING and ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER" which the musical devices are incapable of doing.

Donnie,

I appreciate your response, but you really didn't address the issue I was hoping you would.

Please explain the difference between "sing and play" and "sing and read." If your contention is that we can only do that which is authorized, and the text you are using indicates we are to "sing" and "make melody in our hearts" then the conclusion is that anything other than that is not correct, right?

Therefore, wouldn't "read and sing" be no different than "play and sing" because both are not "sing and make melody in our hearts"?

Donnie, you wrote, "Frankly, we often lose sight of the fact that even singing is not the key directive stated in those passages. Rather, it is the "TEACHING and ADMONISHING ONE ANOTHER" which the musical devices are incapable of doing."

Frankly, we often lose sight of the fact that not even WORSHIP SERVICES or ASSEMBLY are the key directives stated in those passages. Rather, it is how we live our lives as imitators of Christ EVERY DAY. To rip these passages out of the context and demand that they talk only of an assembly is do violence to what God has inspired.

What IS the Biblical context? It is NOT and NEVER has been an assembly of the saints. The Biblical context has ALWAYS been how we live our lives. And how do we live our lives?
- not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed
- no obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking
- do not be partners with those who practce the above
- Have nothing to do with these fruitless deeds of darkness
- Be very careful, then, how you live
- make the most of every opportunity
- Do not get drunk on wine but be filled with the Spirit
- Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs
- Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord
- always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
- Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ
- Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord
- Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church
- Children, obey your parents in the Lord
- Fathers, do not exasperate your children
- Fathers, bring your children up in the training and instruction of the Lord
- Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart
- masters, treat your slaves in the same way
- be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power
- Put on the full armor of God
- set your hearts on things above
- Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things
- Put to death whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed
- rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips
- Do not lie to each other
- clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience
- Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another
- Forgive as the Lord forgave you
- put on love
- Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts
- be thankful
- Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly
- and admonish one another with all wisdom
- sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God
- whatever you do, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him
- Wives, submit to your husbands
- Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them
- Children, obey your parents in everything
- Fathers, do not embitter your children
- Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything

Not ONE of these things is in refercne to an assembly. ALL of these thigns are in what we do EVERY DAY.

So if you are saying that because of just ONE or TWO of the above Biblcal instructions that playing a piano is wrong and sinful, then in respect to the context given by GOD, it MUST be wrong and sinful EVERY DAY.

Keep the context INTACT. ALL of these are instructions are for EVERY DAY.

Donnie, you wrote, "May I urge you to limit this discussion to that which has to do with the assembly of Christians and instrumental music is involved?"

If we are to limit this discussion to that which has to do with the assembly of Christians and instrumental music is involved, then we will have to exclude Ephesians 5-6 and Colossians 3, because neither of these passages have anything to do with the assembly of Christians. Both have only to to do with living as imitators of Christ.

The key passages on Christian assembly are found in 1 Corinthians 11-14.

Donnie,

You said, "The use of man-made musical devices in worship was neither God-ordained nor God-directed even in the old law."

The Bible - and therefore God - does not agree.

It is no wonder your philosophy and that of your mentors have strayed so far from the Word of God. You seem to deny so much of what the Word of God clearly teaches and instead cling to your man-made conclusions.

I really pity brothers in the Lord such as yourself and your mentors who deny so much of what God has taught in His Holy Word, or twist it into something God never intended in order to fit the traditions taught by mere men.

You have my prayers that you heart will no longer be so hard, and that you will accept all the teachings of God and not the just the buffet variety where you can pick and choose just the parts you like.

Blessings.

The Qahal, synagogue or church in the wilderness was INCLUSIVE of Resting, reading and reharsing the Word of God. It was EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrument rejoicing. This never changed down through history and you will notice that Jesus STOOD UP to read the word and DECENTLY sat down and waited for discussion. That is why even the Gentiles were ready to hear the gospel:

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time
hath in every city them that preach him,
being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

That quarantined them into the Church of Christ (ordained by Christ) FROM the temple where they PROFANED the Sabbath by making sacrifices with loud exorcism NOISE which is never called music. The CHURCH as school is the NARROW WAY and trying to restore the music always for EXORCISM and called SORCERY is even now the BROAD WAY.

No one could without lots of MISTEACHING hallucinate MUSIC because Paul's ONLY worship concept means to give heed to the Word of Christ or that which is written.

No one DARED for almost 400 years and then by the GNOSTICS which defines the "distinctily American form of religion with no connection to historic Christianity."

"In Gnostic circles religious poetry arose to compete with the Old Testament Psalms. Some Catholics therefore distrusted the composition of hymns after this pattern, on the ground that they might smack of heresy. Yet from at least the second century hymns were written by the orthodox which, like their Gnostic counterparts, employed the forms of Greek poetry...

Until near the end of the fourth century, in the services of the Catholic Church
only the Old Testament Psalms and
the hymns or canticles from the New Testament were sung:
the other hymns were for personal family, or private use.

Gradually there were prepared versical paraphrases of the Psalms, hymns
with lines of equal length, and hymns which were acrostic." (Latourette, Christianity. p. 207).

To Ephraim pertains the high and unique distinction of having originated-or at least given its living impulse to-a new departure in sacred literature; and that, not for his own country merely, but for Christendom.

From him came, if not the first idea, at all events the first successful example,
of making song an essential constituent of public worship,
and an exponent of theological teaching;

and from him it spread and prevailed through the Eastern Churches, and affected even those of the West.
To the Hymns, on which chiefly his fame rests, the Syriac ritual in all its forms owes much of its strength and richness; and to them is largely due the place which Hymnody holds throughout the Church everywhere.

Even then Ephraem's hymns would allow you to LEARN the story line of the Old Testament INCLUDING the musical idolatry of the trinity at Mount Sinai."

http://www.piney.com/EphraimHymns.html

Talk about a pick-and-choose religion, if people are going to fall back on the Old Testament Psalms (like Psalm 150) as their authority for IM in Christian worship, then they will have no qualms about following the other practices of the Law of Moses to which the Psalms refer. Observe:

"I will go into thy house with burnt offerings: I will pay thee my vows, Which my lips have uttered, and my mouth hath spoken, when I was in trouble. I will offer unto thee burnt sacrifices of fatlings, with the incense of rams; I will offer bullocks with goats. Selah" (Psalm 66:13-15 KJV).

Now if a person is bent on using the Psalms to justify IM in Christian worship, would he not object to offering burnt sacrifices as the ancient Jews did? The Psalms clearly call for sacrifices. Is a person going to implement the IM but disregard the burnt sacrifices? If he does, then he engages in a pick-and-choose religion.

Or, a person can follow the New Testament entirely and put away the practices of the Old Testament Law of Moses (burnt sacrifices, incense, IM, etc.), which Christ nailed to His cross (Col. 2:14).

Dr Bill. Please come back when you understand the role of the Old Covenant, and of the sacrifice Jesus.

Perhaps this explains what Dr. Crump was saying... if you use the old law for any religious practice then you must keep the whole law.

Galatians 5:1-7 (ASV)
5:1 For freedom did Christ set us free: stand fast therefore, and be not entangled again in a yoke of bondage. 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that, if ye receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing. 5:3 Yea, I testify again to every man that receiveth circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 5:4 Ye are severed from Christ, ye would be justified by the law; ye are fallen away from grace. 5:5 For we through the Spirit by faith wait for the hope of righteousness. 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith working through love. 5:7 Ye were running well; who hindered you that ye should not obey the truth?

"Perhaps this explains what Dr. Crump was saying... if you use the old law for any religious practice then you must keep the whole law."

No. This doesn't explain it all for anyone who understands the Bible. Example - Thou shalt not kill. Following yours, and Crump's explanation, if we keep this law, then we keep the whole OT.

What were the two greatest commandments? If we keep both of those, then you and Crump are saying that we must keep all the commands in the OT.

Only someone who does not recognize the role of the OT and the meaning of the sacrifice of Jesus would fail to grasp the silliness of such a position.

Also note that this thread was hijacked by Crump - the post he responded to was not saying we can use intrumental music because the OT says we can. The comment he hijacked said that Donnie and Ken asserion that instruments were NEVER authorized by God was wrong and against the teaching of the OT Scriptures.

Anyone who teaches that instrumental music was NEVER authorized by God either does not care what is taught in God's word, or is a deceiver.

My example has been misrepresented. Doesn't the New Testament also condemn murder, adultery, idolatry, theft, etc.? These are sins under both the old and new covenants. Sin is sin and law is law. The Law was a tutor to bring us to Christ (it identified what sin is) Ga. 3:22-27. Christ came to fullfill the Law and do what it could not do, provide an attonement for all sin. He was given ALL authority and we must stay within the confines of that authority if we truly love him. We no longer keep the Sabbath, burn incense, offer animal sacrifices, or use musical instruments in worship because they lie outside of what we are authorized to do. Only someone who goes beyond God's Word could be so arrogant to ignore it, I Co. 4:6,7.

Mark wrote: "Doesn't the New Testament also condemn murder, adultery, idolatry, theft, etc.? These are sins under both the old and new covenants. Sin is sin and law is law. The Law was a tutor to bring us to Christ (it identified what sin is) Ga. 3:22-27. Christ came to fullfill the Law and do what it could not do, provide an attonement for all sin. He was given ALL authority and we must stay within the confines of that authority if we truly love him."

Precisely!

Whether you believe we should use them today or not, the fact remains that God DID authorize the use of Instrumental Music in the inspired writings of the Old Covenant, and He NEVER inspired any writer to write that He changed His mind.

Donnie and Ken teach falsely that God never authorized Intrumental Music. God DID authorize and inspired psalmists to write about prasing Him with instrumental music.

God bless.

So then, we are sinning today when we do not dance, burn incense, etc. since God "never inspired any writer to write that He changed His mind" on those activities?

Mark wrote: "So then, we are sinning today when we do not dance, burn incense, etc. since God "never inspired any writer to write that He changed His mind" on those activities?"

Was Paul sinning when he took the four Christian men and purified himself along with them, went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end, and gave notice with the intent of making the offering for each of them?

Mark, you confuse what we are required to do to be saved with what is not a requirement for salvation.

Do you endorse the false teaching promoted by Donnie and Ken that God NEVER authorized instrumental music anywhere in the scriptures?

God bless

RE: Questioning the "Determining Aids and Additions" Chart May 19 2009, 11:49 AM


Chris writes:

Donnie,

I appreciate your response, but you really didn't address the issue I was hoping you would.

Please explain the difference between "sing and play" and "sing and read." If your contention is that we can only do that which is authorized, and the text you are using indicates we are to "sing" and "make melody in our hearts" then the conclusion is that anything other than that is not correct, right?

Therefore, wouldn't "read and sing" be no different than "play and sing" because both are not "sing and make melody in our hearts"?

____________________________

Chris,

I was also hoping that you would have ordered the contrasting events as follows:

• "READ and SING": First, I must point out that it would even be better if God's truth in the song did not have to be read at all. But if it is necessary for God's truth in the hymn to be read, then, the "reading material" [in this case, the hymnbook] is an aid. Singing does not have to be complex. It can be done by reciting the word of Christ expressed or stated in the hymn. The recitation satisfies the key directive in the "speaking to yourselves in ... songs."
  
  In fact, we must take into consideration that the key directive in Eph. 5:19 is "speaking to yourselves in ... songs." The expression "singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord," when taken in context of the entire passage, is an adjunct to the key component -- "speak to yourselves."
  
  "Singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord" is often a misunderstood expression. The action words: (a) "singing" and (b) "making melody in your hearts," while joined by the conjunction "and," are inseparable in context and refer to the same expectation of verbalizing the truth by singing from the heart. In the statement, "Bread and butter is my food," notice the singular verb "is" which indicates that "butter without the bread" is not my food.
  
  Outside of Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16, "reading" is encouraged. Remember when Paul admonished Timothy to "give attendance to READING, to exhortation, to doctrine" (I Tim. 4:13)? So, reading the word of Christ in the hymn is not an addition to God's directive to "speaking to yourselves ... in songs."
  
  
• "SING and PLAY": Chris, I had to reverse your components in "PLAY and SING" to "SING and PLAY." Because "singing" is the native component and "playing" is the alien and the intruder. Unlike "singing and making melody in your heart" being inseparable, "singing" and "playing the musical device" are separable. Even from a practical standpoint, there's no reason why God would be interested in what inanimate, lifeless and HEARTless musical devices can offer. God has never ordained musical instruments and has never directed His people to allow musical objects to participate in the assembly. Remember, it was David (not God), the skilled musician, who ordained musical instruments. You can read that in II Chronicles 29:27.
  
  Furthermore, II Chronicles 29, musical instruments (ordained by David king of Israel) were not separated from the blood sacrifices and burnt offerings. The chapter enumerates the numbers of different animals sacrificed and offered:
  
  -- 70 bullocks
  -- 100 rams
  -- 200 lambs
  -- 600 oxen
  -- 3,000 sheep
  
  

Playing musical devices (including timbrels, cymbals, trumpets, psalteries, etc.) is an addition to God's directive to "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly ... teaching and admonishing one another in ... songs."

Donnie,

Once again, I appreciate your response; but, to be honest, I am somewhat confused by your comments. You indicate the need to reverse my components from play and sing to sing and play because singing is the native component. This is all well and good, and I do not object if you are going to be consistent in your application of that rule, but you fail to use that rule when dealing with read and sing. Therefore, I am left to wonder why singing is the native component in sing and play but not in read and sing?

You have also argued that singing and making melody in your heart are inseparable, and have indicated that singing and playing the musical device are separable, thus you reason that playing would be an addition rather than an aid. Yet, in the same post you indicate that reading is not necessary; which would mean that reading and singing are separable, the same as singing and playing. If they are both separable from the native component, how do you determine one to be an aid and the other to be an addition?

UNDER THE MONARCHY WHICH WENT BEYOND THE LAW OF MOSES WHICH OUTLAWED VOCAL AND INSTRUMENTAL REJOICING BECAUSE THE QAHAL, SYNAGOGUE OR CHURCH (OF CHRIST) IN THE WILDERNESS OUTLAWED IT EVEN IF COMMON DECENCY WOULD NOT WHEN YOU ASSEMBLE AS A "SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE":

1 Chr 25:1 David, together with the commanders of the army, set apart some of the sons of Asaph, Heman and Jeduthun for the ministry of prophesying, accompanied by harps, lyres and cymbals. Here is the list of the men who performed this service:

Payne insists that the Hebrew of 1 Chronicles 25:1 unambiguously identifies these leaders as military commanders, an interpretation favoured by several Bible translations. (Payne, p 423-4; NASB, NIV, NKJV, NRSV, Jerusalem Bible) If military commanders had a particular interest in the appointment of musicians, it suggests a strong link between music and warfare

"The Hithpa'el of nb', in the ancient texts, refers to ecstasy and delirium rather than to the emission of a 'prophecy'." (de Vaux, Roland, The Bible and the Ancient Near East, p. 243 Doubleday

"Maniac inspirations, the violent possession which threw sibyls and priestesses into contortions--the foaming lip and streaming hair and glazed or glaring eyes-- have no place in the self-controlling dignity of Christian inspiration. Even Jewish prophets, in the paroxysm of emotion, might lie naked on the ground and rave (1 Sam. xix. 24); but the genuine inspiration in Christian ages never obliterates the self-consciousness or overpowers the reason. It abhors the hysteria and stimulation and frenzy which have sometimes disgraced revivalism and filled lunatic asylums." (Pulpit Commentary, 1 Cor., p. 460).

"Many of the Psalms are expressive of the parade dance, or dance procession, in a way which show it to have been the characteristic form of the festival (Psalms 30:12, 87:7, 149:3, 150:4; Is. 30:29) and that this was where many of the Psalms were used." ( W. O. E. Osterley, The Sacred Dance (Cambridge: N. P., 1923), p. 94)

Isaiah 30 defines HELL and reveals the MARKS or SOUNDS of God driving His enemies into hell already: they are the wind, string and percussion instruments that Lucifer the singing and harp playing prostitute brought with him/her into the garden of Eden: the same instrumental TRUMPET SOUNDS which signals the END of the same Babylon mother of harlots (Rev 17) who uses the same "lusted after fruits" as speakers, singers and instrument players John continues to call SORCERERS used to deceive the whole world.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

THE WAY TO FIND THE CHURCH OF CHRIST ON SUNDAY MORNING FOLLOWING THE DIRECT COMMANDS NOT TO UISE INSTRUMENTS (NUM 10) AND TEACHING AND HONORING CHRIST THE SPIRIT WHO GAVE US THE SONGS AND SERMONS TO TEACH THE GOOD, BAD AND UGLY.

Matt 26:30And when they had sung G5214 an hymn G5214 they went G1831 out into G1519 the mount G3735 of Olives G1636.

[30] Kai humnêsantes exêlthon eis to Oros tôn Elaiôn.

Humneo in Prose, celebrate in a hymn, commemorate, 2 .descant upon, in song or speech, II. tell over and over again, harp upon, repeat, recite, Proverbs 1:20, sing, recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a: chant X.Ages.11.2

Decanto C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm, I. To sing a thing off, to repeat in a singing manner (v. cano and canto). to recite, rehearse,

If you SING A HYMN the Greek is HUMNOIDIA,
If literate Paul wanted to say sing and play the harp the word is PSALMODIA.

The worshipers of ZEUS would HYMIZO or ASCRIBE (hymn) the SOURCE of their laws as ZEUS who was the FATHER Jesus intended to repudiate rather than teach THREE GODS.

Plato Laws

[624a] Athenian: To whom do you ASCRIBE the authorship of your legal arrangements, Strangers? To a god or to some man?

Clinias To a god, Stranger, most rightfully to a god. We Cretans call Zeus our lawgiver; while in Lacedaemon, where our friend here has his home, I believe they claim Apollo as theirs. Is not that so, Megillus?

GOD MADE IT EASY TO STEER CLEAR OF LEGALISM: SINGING THE LAWS OF ZEUS (PAGAN FATHER) OR APOLLO WHO IS THE ABADDON OR APOLLYON IN REVELATION AND THE "LUSTED AFTER FRUITS" ARE HIS MUSICAL WORSHIP TEAM: ASSUREDLY A TRUMP, SHAKING SOUND HEARD ALL AROUND THE WORLD AT THE SAME TIME IN ALL RELIGIOUS GROUPS.

Chris,

I gather from the above post that you agree that "PLAYING" musical devices is an addition. Am I correct in arriving at that conclusion that "PLAYING" is an addition to "SINGING"? Do you have any objection to that conclusion? If not, then, we now can deal with only the "reading and singing" issue as follows:

• Needless to say, reading [of God's truth in the hymn] is not necessary if the congregants are familiar with the hymn or have it sung from memory. You have no argument against that, correct?
  
  In this case, "singing" of God's truth via "psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" is all by itself as a native component. There is no question regarding the order of components since there is only one component under consideration -- which is "singing." There is also no question regarding a different component [as PLAYING a musical device] being an addition to "singing."
  
  
• So far as "reading" (when it is necessary) and "singing" as being dual components is concerned, you are making this issue unnecessarily complicated.
  
  Since reading is necessary, in this particular case, these two components are inseparable. Reading is necessitated by singing. Therefore, the use of a hymnbook from which to read the hymn to be sung (or recited) is an aid -- not an addition. "Reading God's truth in words and singing those words" follows the same statement composition as "bread and butter is my food." In the food analogy, butter is not my food. In the singing analogy, without the words being recited, what comes out of the vocal cords will be unintelligble.
  
  [NOTE: Let's not confuse: (1) "reading as necessary and singing" with (2) singing from memory without the hymnbook.]
  
  
• "Singing" and "playing" are unquestionably separable. With all elements considered, either: (1) the congregants "sing" or (2) the designated musician "plays" or (3) both the congregants "sing" while the designated musician "plays."
  
  The scriptures clearly indicate God's simple directive: to "teach and admonish ONE ANOTHER [the primary directive] in (via) singing [or reciting/vocalizing] psalms and hymns and spiritual songs."
  
  When the designated musician(s) play without singing, the dynamics of following God's directive changes and is, therefore, violated. Remember the key directive is to "teach and admonish ONE ANOTHER" which musical devices are incapable of doing.
  
  When the designated musician(s) play while the congregants sing, the dynamics of following God's directive changes and is, therefore, violated. Remember the key directive is to "teach and admonish ONE ANOTHER" which musicians and musical devices are incapable of doing.
  
  

Chris, I notice that you don't seem convinced that the primary objective in the assembly is "teaching and admonishing one another God's truth or with the word of Christ." And this can be accomplished via one mode, i.e., "in ... songs." You don't make mention of it. So, I wonder why. I wonder because when one reaches that point of understanding God's key directive, all else will fall in place.

In conclusion, "teaching and admonishing one another God's word" can be accomplished via reciting or singing about the Lord and His word in those hymns, but cannot be accomplished in PLAYING inanimate, lifeless and heartless musical devices.

Donnie,

Contrary to your gathering I did not indicate in my post whether or not I agreed with you that playing musical devices is an addition; for at the present time I am not ready to concede that such is the case.

The reading and singing issue is not an issue with which I struggle; for I have no problem understanding song books, sheet music, or whatever as an aid to singing. The issue I have relates to the inconsistency of your argument, not with whether or not someone reads from a song book while they sing.

You have labeled playing as an addition because the text informs us to sing not to sing and play. But, at the same time, you have concluded that reading is to be considered as an aid even though the text doesnt say read and sing. To me, this is inconsistent and doesnt address the question of how we determine which items are additions and which ones are aids.

Neither word, play or read, appears in the text; therefore both could be considered as aids or additions. The question becomes how do I determine which one in this case is an aid and which is an addition. And, how do we determine that these two items are different from each other and should not both be considered as aids, or as additions?

Please address these concerns with your thoughts and the consistency of your arguments.

Also, you state, Chris, I notice that you dont seem convinced that the primary objective in the assembly is teaching and admonishing one another Gods truth or with the word of Christ. To be honest, Donnie, I am not convinced that such is the case; for I believe the primary purpose of the assembly is to worship to God, secondary to that, or a byproduct of worship, is mutual edification. It is through our worship that we teach and admonish each other, that is our primary objective.

Regarding your conclusion, yes, teaching and admonishing one another can be accomplished through reciting passages or singing about the Lord and his word in hymns. I dont think anyone disagrees with you. However, no one is suggesting that the playing of an inanimate, lifeless and heartless musical device takes the place of personally worshiping God and edifying one another, because the use of such is only seen as an aid to offer what God has requested, which is worship in song.

Now, before you go and gather something from this post that isnt necessarily stated, let me offer the following: I do not worship with instruments, I am simply rethinking some of the traditional stances upon which my faith has been built and asking whether or not those stances are in line with truth. I wont lie, I have sincere doubts and questions about some of those traditional stances; and, I am simply addressing and asking those questions in this forum.

Donnie,

Your bread and butter illustration does not make any sense to me in light of the point you are seeking to make. The statement that bread and butter is my food indicates that bread and butter is my food, not just bread alone. You may not be able to imagine that butter alone could be my food, but that really isnt the point; for my statement was that bread and butter is my food. The passage in question states sing and make melody in your heart, not read and sing, or even sing and play. Yet, you continually justify reading and not playing. The only thing that would make sense, in light of the point you are seeking to make, is that both be considered the same; whether as an aid or as an addition.

Regarding mans response to Gods directive, you indicated that there is no other response necessary from man than to sing. Therefore, according to your post, anything other than the response of singing on the part of man must be considered as an addition. And you, Donnie, even agree with my previous statement for you stated that when man responds to Gods directive differently, than what is stated, his response is a modified response or an addition. For these reasons, I am still convinced that your argument is inconsistent at best and should be reconsidered.

I agree that singing, even when reading words from a song book, is still singing. But, you have not convinced me that singing, even when accompanied by musical instruments, isnt still singing; even if you claim it is an entirely different activity. By the way, how does singing become something other than singing when an instrument accompanies it?

I am curious as to how you believe an individual offers worships God. Do you not hold to the traditional church of Christ teaching that one worships God through the so-called five acts of worship: singing, praying, Lords Supper, etc? You seem to indicate that there is no programming, which I am interpreting as no pattern. If this is the case, wouldnt that make you a change agent, the same that you despise? Please explain your thoughts more fully regarding programming so that I may understand your point.

Chris,

It is apparent that you haven't understood the simple "bread and butter" illustration.

Let me simplify it further for you. Despite the conjunction "and" in the text, do you notice the linking verb "is" in: "Bread and butter is my food"? It is singular in form, isn't it? Now, your deduction is correct in that my food is neither bread alone nor butter alone. My food is "bread and butter"--a necessary combination of both bread and butter. Same is true with singing/reciting/verbalizing God's message of truth in a hymn or song -- reading from a script is an aid to singing or reciting. Reading is a necessity especially when the text is unfamiliar or when one experiences memory lapses; otherwise, the singer/reciter may end up speaking unintelligible words. Chris, please don't let the conjunction "and" cloud up your thinking ability.

Therefore, reading does not alter God's directive to speak or recite or sing God's truth. Man's response to God's directive to speak to yourselves via singing is singing.

With regard to SINGING AND PLAYING, I really don't know how else to explain that to you. Yes, there is the conjunction "and" that has really confounded your thinking. But context is conclusive that PLAYING musical devices is NOT NECESSARY or AN AID to singing/reciting/vocalizing God's message in the song. It makes it a "combo" [pun intended] when the rest of the congregants sings/recites while one or a few PLAY FOR/TO God their tambourines and psalteries and cymbals.

Did I say anything about the "five acts of worship"? NO ... NO ... No. I simply mentioned the observance to commemorate the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross; a gathering of saints for edification, exhortation, for "speaking to yourselves," "teaching and admonishing one another" ... in songs. There are no format examples of "worship" in the New Testament other than to "worship Him in spirit and in truth." From a practical standpoint, we know that the early Christians patterned their assembly from synagogue worship which was comprised of reading God's truth from scrolls, prayer, simple singing without musical instruments and the giving of means to help the needy. Of course, the commemoration of the Lord's death was God's directive to the first century Christians, and such was the practice of the early church as recorded.

ARNOBIUS NOTES AND NO FALSE TEACHER IS LEFT OUT OF HIS LIST OF HERESIES.

http://www.piney.com/FatArnoHerVII.html

But if a god, as is said, has no body, and cannot be touched at all, how is it possible that that which has no body should be nourished by things pertaining to the body,-that what is mortal should support what is immortal, and assist and give vitality to that which it cannot touch? This reason for sacrifices is not valid, therefore, as it seems; nor can it be said by any one that sacrifices are kept up for this reason, that the deities are nourished by them, and supported by feeding on them.

4. If perchance it is not this, Note 22 are victims not slain in sacrifice to the gods, and cast upon their flaming altars to give them 23 some pleasure and delight?

And can any man persuade himself that the gods become mild as they are exhilarated by pleasures, that they long for sensual enjoyment, and, like some base creatures, are affected by agreeable sensations, and charmed and tickled for the moment by 24 a pleasantness which soon passes away?

John Mark Hicks and the LU Credo:

http://www.piney.com/Hicks.Come.Table.html

......Several features characterize the fellowship meals of Israel.
......First, it is a moment of communion between God and his people.

...........God eats with his people as the fat is burned to him.
........... God is present at this meal. It is eaten before the Lord as if God sits at the table with the worshipper.

No, because God had turned them over to worship the STARRY HOST and SERPENTS at the temple, the "god" was called Baal-Zebul or god of the flies. The demons hoovered around wanting to get their fill of blood and gore so the NOISE never called MUSIC was exorcism: to call DOWN the good demons and drive OUT the bad demons: that is EXACTLY what people ar doing today.

The Jews had such a meal and PLAY at Mount Sinai and it is called musical idolatry of a trinity and for that God REMOVED all Grace and turned them over to the gods worshipped by John Mark Hicks and the LU CROWD. You will remember that in 2008 they were promoting SPIRITUAL FORMATION which is clearly defined by Randy Harris in terms of WITCHCRAFT.

......"a time for sharing, prayer and conversation about what God has done for us... (p. 188).

...........Earlier he calls it a "Jubilee festival" (p. 63).
........... He would have it observed with "resounding jubilation or enthusiastic outbursts" (p. 97).

But Paul says that the Lord's Supper is an act of EVANGELISM: showing forth the DEATH of Christ. Now, maybe the Lipscomb Crowd wants to eat and JUBILATE instead of let Christ be EVANGELIZED then it is true as Jesus says: "Doctors of the Law take away the key to knowledge." ALL musical words carry the SORCERY concept which ONLY works on the lowest, most ignorant says history. But, God says:

......If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof. Psa 50:12
.......Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats? Psa 50:13

......Trinity as Necessary Fact in Alexander Campbells Christian System of Facts" Since the Lipscomb and Hicks view is that God is a FAMILY then they probably hold a POTLUCK.

http://www.piney.com/Trinity.Hicks.Rochester.html

Note 22 The heathen opponent is supposed to give up his first reason, that the sacrifices provided food for the gods, and to advance this new suggestion, that they were intended for their gratification merely.
Note 23 Lit., "for the sake of."
Note24 Lit., "with the fleeting tickling of."

......You strum away on your harps like David and
......improvise on musical instruments.
......who excel in the sound of musical instruments; Amos 6:5

......they have regarded them as abiding,
......not as fleeting pleasure." Amos 6:5 LXX

......The mirth of timbrels has ceased,
......the sound of the harp has ceased. Isaiah 24:8 LXX

......They are ashamed they have not drunk wine;
......strong drink has become bitter to them that drink of it. Isa 24:9 LXX

......No longer do they drink wine with a song;
......the beer is bitter to its drinkers. -- Isa 24:9 (NIV)

For that which is overcome by pleasure must be harassed by its opposite, sorrow; nor can that be free from the anxiety of grief, which trembles with joy, and is elated capriciously with gladness. 25 But the gods should be free from both passions, if we would have them to be everlasting, and freed from the weakness of mortals.

25 Lit., "with the levities of gladnesses.

Moreover, every pleasure is, as it were, a kind of flattery of the body, and is addressed to the five well-known senses; but if the gods above feel it, 26 they must partake also of those bodies through which there is a way to the senses, and a door by which to receive pleasures.

26 i.e., pleasure.

Lastly, what pleasure is it to take delight in the slaughter of harmless creatures, to have the ears ringing often with their piteous bellowings, to see rivers of blood, the life fleeing away with the blood, and the secret parts having been laid open, not only the intestines to protrude with the excrements, but also the heart still bounding with the life left in it, and the trembling, palpitating veins in the viscera?

The MEANING of exorcism music was to "make the lambs voice NOT HEART during the slaughter: Jesus was musically mocked the same way so EVEN NOT people want to JUBILATE so they cannot hear the WORDS of Christ.

We half-savage men, nay rather,-to say with more candour what it is truer and more candid to say,-we savages, whom unhappy necessity and bad habit have trained to take these as food, are sometimes moved with pity for them; we ourselves accuse and condemn ourselves when the thing is seen and looked into thoroughly,

because, neglecting the law which is binding on men,
we have broken through the bonds which naturally united us at the beginning. 27

27 Naturalis initii consortia.

Be sure to eat, drink and make Mary or Harry in the moring because Paul in romans 10 and 1 Corinthians 10 warned about the Red Sea Musical Idolatry and called it DEMON WORSHIP.

I agree that singing, even when reading words from a song book, is still singing. But, you have not convinced me that singing, even when accompanied by musical instruments, isnt still singing; even if you claim it is an entirely different activity. By the way, how does singing become something other than singing when an instrument accompanies it?

The command is to SPEAK that which is written: Speak is the opposite of poetry or music. People "set their lies to melodies to deceive the simple minded." Because the sole purpose is to TEACH THAT WHICH IS WRITTEN, the gift of A holy spirit would prevent people from MAKING NOISE while the WORD of Christ (Col 3) or Spirit (Eph 5) or "that whichis written" (Rom 15) is being dispense.

Singing as in performing the ACT of singing and singing Twila Paris or Fanny Crosby violates direct comands and approved examples for ANYONE assembled to TEACH the word of God. Adding instrumental (machines for doing hard work) SOUND to the vocal sounds makes into something DIFFERENT. You cease to SING and become part of the MACHINE and your TEACHING role is DESTROYED: music means to "make the victim's message dumb." Music intends to "make the LAMB dumb before the slaugher." That was what they DID to Jesus momentarily as a SIGN of fulfilled prophecy.

The assembly is the Qahal, synagogue or Church of Chrsit in the wilderness: it was for the civillians.
1. The command was to REST from the laded burden: a burden in Greek and Hebrew is singing to arouse the flesh.
2. The command was to READ the Word of God where the synagogue would be small groups in their own area: work outlawed "sending out ministers of God." You don't NEED ministers when you PREACH Moses by READING Moses.
3. The command was to rehearse or discuss the Word of God--ONLY

By the direct command of Christ that EXCLUDED vocal or instrumental rejoicing.

That was the synagogue or SCHOOL OF THE WORD which existed throughout the Old Testament.
That was appoved by Jesus by attending Synagogue, standing up to READ and SITTING down for discussion.
The sacrificial system was ABANDONED to worship the starry host and was a virtual slaughter of their "gods" and was quarantined BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. No one NOT of the tribe of Levi could be INSIDE the walls and Jacob warned you NOT to attend the assemblies of LEVI. This was the old Egyptian/Babylonian worship of the STARS to which God ABANDONED the Levi's BECAUSE of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.

SPEAK one to another is what you do in the AUDIBLE world: that is what even Simple Simon knows to do when he attends SCHOOL.
SingING and makING are INAUDIBLE or in the PLACE of the human spirit directed to God: God is not deaf.

If YOU are hired to tell people how to EXCAPE a BURNING SHIP, your method of instruction is to SPEAK.
If some effems get up sing, clap with or without instruments you KNOW that they want you to BURN with the SHIP.
That is why speakers, singers and instrument players are called SORCERERS working for the Babylon mother of harlots who wants YOU to keep HER company while SHE burns.

That is why from Genesis to Revelation wind, string and percussion instruments are the WARNING MARKS of Satan. He/she/it wants to STEAL the worship for herself (Lucifer or ZOE).

The PURPOSE is to TEACH, praise God, comfort with SCRIPTURE and prevent discord (Rev 15).

Christ in the Wilderness OUTLAWED vocal or instrumental rejoicing during SCHOOL OF THE BIBLE.
No Jew ever "sang congregationally with or without instruments" which make noise.
Christ CONFIRMED the synagogue as a place to READ and DISCUSS the Word opf God.
Paul outlawed singing if you can define the concept of SELF-PLEASURE.
No one misunderstood that EVER NEVER. However, singing as an ACT was imposed after Constantine let the pagan priests into the church: the Catholic Encyclopedia says that MUSIC was added because it was COMMON to all PAGAN CULTS. That was in 373 in just a few temples taken over by the Catholics.

However, not even the Catholics fell into CONGREGATIONAL SINGING with INSTRUMENTAL ACCOMPANIMENT.
After the Reformation you could not OBEY the direct command to use the BIBLICAL TEXT and SING because none of it is METRICAL. Therefore, the protestants ADDED congregational singing AFTER radically recomposing the Psalms (only) to make singing POSSIBLE.

When the Father (within the Son) delivered Spirit (breath) it was WITHOUT METER. That becomes a MARK that when you "turn the word of God into songs" you are doing what Jesus accused the Pharisees and Scribes of doing so that they could be HYPOCRITES. The same Spirit of Christ identified the hypocrites as performance speakers, singers and instrument players.

The Greek language identifies a HYPOCRITE of the first order as rhetoricians or what the preacher does when he scrambles the Words of God and makes an omlet so YOU will pay him for "making the voice of the victim silent."

A HYPOCRITE is secondly a SINGER where all of the VOCAL SINGING words were the vocation of the MYTH MONGERS who were NOT permitted in Athenian Law to write TRUE HISTORY. Old Wives tales or fables are composed by religious composers who are primarily females or effeminate "ruling over you" by supplying the music.

Wow! I may have to attend the Tulsa workshop next year. If you guys hate it that much, it must have been good. Thanks for the tip!

By the way, y'all can argue all you want about "salvation issues", and keep driving people away from Christ instead of closer to him. In the end, you are only hurting yourselves, because GOD is the one who decides what IS and IS NOT a salvation issue. You may think right now that you're pretty smart;but God will judge you by these hateful emails and posts.Don't think just because you are on the internet God doesn't know what you are saying.YOU WILL BE JUDGED according to your actions and words on this website. I pray God will show you mercy and grace that you have not extended to others on the website and that he will have mercy on your souls. Think about this the next time you are berating someone because they live their lives according to grace, and not law.

Sincerely,

Lisa

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not:
......for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me,
......and receiveth not my words,
......hath one that judgeth him:
......the word that I have spoken,
......the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him,
......If a man love me, he will keep my words:
......and my Father will love him,
......and we will come unto him,
......and make our abode with him.

People who think that they can ENHANCE the Word of God always believe that they "hear beyond the sacred page." That gives them a right to get PAID for that which Jesus already PAID for. The church is a school of the Bible: the direct commands are to teach that which is written. Therefore, going to Tulsa to learn how to use the theatrical arts is doing what is outlawed for that assembly or synagogue of Christ.

1John 1:1 That which was from the beginning,
......which we have heard,
......which we have seen with our eyes,
......which we have looked upon,
...... and our hands have handled,
............of the Word of life;

......John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing:
......t he words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1John 1:2 (For the life was manifested,
......and we have seen it,
......and bear witness,
......and shew unto you that eternal life,
......which was with the Father,
......and was manifested unto us;)

Don't ever PAY to hear the Words of Christ where people use the HYPOCRITIC arts: John called the speakers, singers and instrument players SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world. Don't let it happen to you.

Jesus pointed to the prophets to label Scribes and Pharisees hypocrites: He pointed to performance speakers for hire, singers and instrument players. Jesus used the instrument as a MARK of people who had no interest in the Word of God. Tulsa is about PERFORMANCE and they DO lie about all of the "music" terms trying to IMPOSE that which God IMPOSED on the Jews as a curse.