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Where do you worship?

March 31 2009 at 8:24 PM
Jimmy Joe  (no login)
from IP address 69.137.124.72

This is actually a question for Donnie. After spending the last few years reading (mostly) and posting (occasionally), I was wondering where Donnie "worships." I know he attends the second (contemporary) service at Madison Church of Christ quite often. I realize one can attend for multiple reasons. One reason could be to critique, criticize and then jump on the internet and inform the world of the error these "blind followers" are subjected to every service.

If I underestimate Mr. Cruz, I apologize. Maybe he is very good at multi-tasking and can do both - worship and critique - at the same time. I find it hard to understand how one can "worship" with people that you know are in error and not worshiping in a scriptural fashion. It seems it would be like a Catholic attending a Methodist service every Sunday instead of Mass. If your sole purpose for attending and posting on the websites is to warn these "wayward" Christians, wouldn't you think after nine or ten years, if they haven't "seen the error of their ways" by now, it's not going to happen?

However, since this is a free country I will defend your right to go anywhere at anytime you so desire.

 
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(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
68.19.194.252

Re: Where do you worship?

April 28 2009, 2:48 AM 

Jimmy Joe,

First of all, I would encourage you to continue reading and to continue posting more than just "occasionally." Hopefully, you have benefited from what you've read so far. I must admit that I myself still have a lot of reading and learning to do here.

From reading your post above, I gather that you have already drawn your own conclusion about me and how or where I "worship." There's really not much I can do or say to change your mind. You and I need to realize that there's not much said about "worship" in the New Testament. But we do know that we are to worship our Father in spirit and in truth -- even in our personal lives. New Testament Christians assemble purposefully to commemorate the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross. We assemble to exhort one another, to "let the word of Christ dwell in us richly," to exhort one another, to teach and admonish one another.

I noted with interest some of the expressions you used in your post: "blind followers," "wayward Christians," "the error of their ways." I think you have a very good understanding of why I post. But let's not forget what the Madison congregation actually went through when it was subjected to unwelcome changes that were unnecessary, controversial and divisive. The implementation of the Saddleback Community Church's own Rick Warren's "church growth" scheme simply failed, and it resulted in hundreds of members leaving or seeking fellowship somewhere else.

I do not need to review all that happened in 2001 and thereafter, as one can easily read that in "What Happened at Madison This Week." But I need to stress that if there are "blind followers," there must be "blind leaders." Wouldn't you agree?

While I agree with you that it is becoming apparent that nothing is changing one way or the other after 9 or 10 years, I strongly believe that it is very important to warn (and to continue to warn) others Christians or other congregations that the leadership must take responsibility for any damage done to the body of Christ.

So, if you are convinced that I am capable of multi-tasking, then, let's leave it at that. I'm convinced that you can, too, Jimmy Joe. But so far as your suggestion for me to leave is concerned, you will not need to defend my right. But should I decide to leave, it will be on my own volition.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened At the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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