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Where do you worship?

March 31 2009 at 8:24 PM
Jimmy Joe  (no login)
from IP address 69.137.124.72

This is actually a question for Donnie. After spending the last few years reading (mostly) and posting (occasionally), I was wondering where Donnie "worships." I know he attends the second (contemporary) service at Madison Church of Christ quite often. I realize one can attend for multiple reasons. One reason could be to critique, criticize and then jump on the internet and inform the world of the error these "blind followers" are subjected to every service.

If I underestimate Mr. Cruz, I apologize. Maybe he is very good at multi-tasking and can do both - worship and critique - at the same time. I find it hard to understand how one can "worship" with people that you know are in error and not worshiping in a scriptural fashion. It seems it would be like a Catholic attending a Methodist service every Sunday instead of Mass. If your sole purpose for attending and posting on the websites is to warn these "wayward" Christians, wouldn't you think after nine or ten years, if they haven't "seen the error of their ways" by now, it's not going to happen?

However, since this is a free country I will defend your right to go anywhere at anytime you so desire.

 
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AuthorReply
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
68.19.194.252

Re: Where do you worship?

April 28 2009, 2:48 AM 

Jimmy Joe,

First of all, I would encourage you to continue reading and to continue posting more than just "occasionally." Hopefully, you have benefited from what you've read so far. I must admit that I myself still have a lot of reading and learning to do here.

From reading your post above, I gather that you have already drawn your own conclusion about me and how or where I "worship." There's really not much I can do or say to change your mind. You and I need to realize that there's not much said about "worship" in the New Testament. But we do know that we are to worship our Father in spirit and in truth -- even in our personal lives. New Testament Christians assemble purposefully to commemorate the Lord's sacrifice and death on the cross. We assemble to exhort one another, to "let the word of Christ dwell in us richly," to exhort one another, to teach and admonish one another.

I noted with interest some of the expressions you used in your post: "blind followers," "wayward Christians," "the error of their ways." I think you have a very good understanding of why I post. But let's not forget what the Madison congregation actually went through when it was subjected to unwelcome changes that were unnecessary, controversial and divisive. The implementation of the Saddleback Community Church's own Rick Warren's "church growth" scheme simply failed, and it resulted in hundreds of members leaving or seeking fellowship somewhere else.

I do not need to review all that happened in 2001 and thereafter, as one can easily read that in "What Happened at Madison This Week." But I need to stress that if there are "blind followers," there must be "blind leaders." Wouldn't you agree?

While I agree with you that it is becoming apparent that nothing is changing one way or the other after 9 or 10 years, I strongly believe that it is very important to warn (and to continue to warn) others Christians or other congregations that the leadership must take responsibility for any damage done to the body of Christ.

So, if you are convinced that I am capable of multi-tasking, then, let's leave it at that. I'm convinced that you can, too, Jimmy Joe. But so far as your suggestion for me to leave is concerned, you will not need to defend my right. But should I decide to leave, it will be on my own volition.

 
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Jimmy Wren
(no login)
199.227.205.202

Turn around may be in site!

January 18 2010, 6:03 PM 

It seems that some of the sound preaching schools are growing! These preaching schools are located and supported by sound congregations and sound supporters. This is not to say that liberal congregations will not survive but as this economy tightens you will see the liberal churches put more and more emphasis on 'community programs and entertainments' instead of 'preaching the gospel!'

The liberal churches will go the way of the liberal colleges. A recent survey shows that ACL and other liberal colleges have less than 60% members of the Lord's church enrolled in them while over 95% of the enrollment at Freed-Hardeman are members of the Lord's church!

The liberal colleges now advertise on roadside billboards for students. It has almost come to that with the liberal churches!

In Christ,
Jimmy

 
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Jimmy Joe
(no login)
68.53.99.58

Re: Where do you worship

January 20 2010, 9:03 PM 

Donnie, I would like to clear-up a misunderstanding in my last post. I was not suggesting that you leave. I should have critique my last sentence more closely. It should have read: However, since this is a free country I will defend your right to go anywhere at anytime you so desire including the Madison Church of Christ contemporary service.

I didn't mean the statement in a derogatory way. Sorry

 
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Joe
(no login)
98.240.37.65

a derogatory way

March 22 2010, 10:59 AM 

I didn't mean the statement in a derogatory way? Why not, your whole post was derogatory, why not the last statement?
Joe McKnight

 
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Life is Good!!!
(no login)
130.127.120.111

Scripture for Joe McKnight

March 22 2010, 4:03 PM 

1 Corinthians 13

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

How is that for your mirror?

 
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Concerned
(no login)
170.141.177.69

Scripture for Life

March 22 2010, 5:04 PM 

I am concerned about your definition of "love." Is it like, "I speak in tongues but I also love you, sweetheart..."?

One scriptural definition of love is: "If ye love me, keep my commandments. ... If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 14:15; John 15:10)

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
69.59.106.52

Re: Scripture for Life

March 22 2010, 8:42 PM 

Concerned said...."I am concerned about your definition of "love." Is it like, "I speak in tongues but I also love you, sweetheart..."

Concerned, don't mean to alarm you here, but you came up with that definition......not me. Are you projecting yourself here?

If you are asking about the definition from 1 Corinthians 13, then you are a bit too late on quantifying the answer from that author. Paul died a long time ago.

Concerned, you answered it well enough yourself with your question. It speaks worlds of how you think....and it is not of love.

 
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Concerned
(no login)
170.141.177.69

Re: Scripture for Life

March 23 2010, 10:46 AM 

So, we agree that we understand what "speaking in tongues" means.

But "love" means ... what?

(1) You say it is not as in "I love you, sweetheart." [That was not my definition, either -- I was only trying to make it easy for you.]

(2) It's never too late to learn from the great apostle Paul.

(3) You haven't stated it either way, but there's no indication that you agree with one definition of "love" from the book of John, the apostle of "love."

(4) So, how I "think" is not of "love"; therefore, your implication is that there is no "love" when you disagree with a poster or with someone you're debating?

(5) Seriously, explain "love" in I Corinthians 13 -- I am eager to learn from you.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.149.157.38

Re: Scripture for Life

March 23 2010, 2:43 PM 

When a person cannot get someone to agree with his point of view, especially regarding religious topics, how often have we seen that person hurl the typical line, "You have no love!" That attitude as much as says, "We can have 'love' for each other as long as we agree; but if you don't agree with me, you don't 'love' me, and I don't 'love' you!"

 
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Life is Good
(no login)
69.59.106.52

Re: Scripture for Life

March 23 2010, 6:06 PM 

o, we agree that we understand what "speaking in tongues" means.

But "love" means ... what?

(1) You say it is not as in "I love you, sweetheart." [That was not my definition, either -- I was only trying to make it easy for you.]

(2) It's never too late to learn from the great apostle Paul.

(3) You haven't stated it either way, but there's no indication that you agree with one definition of "love" from the book of John, the apostle of "love."

(4) So, how I "think" is not of "love"; therefore, your implication is that there is no "love" when you disagree with a poster or with someone you're debating?

(5) Seriously, explain "love" in I Corinthians 13 -- I am eager to learn from you.

Concerned, You are not eager to learn from me......you are ready to argue. Therein lies the pjoint.
You came up with the term, and rhetoric of "I love you, sweetheart." You, indeedet , did make it easy for all of us. It shows you where your heart is, and if you read the rest of 1 Corinthians 13 you will find out where your heart SHOULD be.
I keep hearing that there is different forms of love, agape love, romantic love, etc., etc. Maybe....but it is just plain to all when the tone, whether in oral or print such as this is lacking in love. Also, there is no debate here friend. Let's make that point sure and true.

I am sure that a debate is what you want, but you will not get it from me. I hear of these debates of old and more times than not both sides claim victory. 'Well, I showed him.' 'That man is lying, he didn't win. I won!'
All I am doing here is imitating the umpire......'calling em like I see em.'

That goes for you too William.
'Well-worded' enough for ya?



 
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Jimmy Joe
(no login)
68.53.99.58

RE: Joe

March 24 2010, 9:56 PM 

My last post begain with the name Donnie. Therefore, one would assume that is the one the post was addressed to and replying to. I did not use the name Joe anywhere in the post. However, the internet sites are clearly open to the public and they may opine anywhere and anytime. Jump in anytime Joe as you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine. I know what my intentions were in the orginal post and if you think the entire post was derogatory that is your opinion.

 
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Concerned
(no login)
170.141.177.69

"Love" or "charity" -- what is it really?

March 24 2010, 1:05 PM 

LifeIs has remarked: "Concerned, you answered it well enough yourself with your question. It speaks worlds of how you think....and it is not of love. ... It shows you where your heart is, and if you read the rest of 1 Corinthians 13 you will find out where your heart SHOULD be. ... Maybe....but it is just plain to all when the tone, whether in oral or print such as this is lacking in love."

Life, OK, I have read I Corinthians 13 again ... and again. We know that "love" or "charity" may be used interchangeably. Here's the actual message from Chapter 13:

[1] Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
[2] And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
[3] And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
[4] Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
[9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
[11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
[12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
[13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


It is apparent from Life's remarks that "love" or "charity" is associated with "communication skills, thinking, the tone in oral or print." Life would like to substitute his new definition for "love" or "charity."

 
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Life is Good
(no login)
69.59.106.52

Questioning Love

March 25 2010, 8:39 PM 

Most people who question the actual definition of love probably always will.....although I pray not.
Love is evident. If you have to wonder what it really is.....well then never mind and no use to keep dragging this out.
Hey Concerned, I am impressed that you can know what I REALLY think. That is where I tell you what I believe, but then you go and tell me what I REALLY mean, as you tell me what is "apparent."

Some people have the gift....

 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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