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C Leonard Allen Roy Lanier Trinity Folly

March 2 2010 at 11:59 PM
John Waddey  (Login Donnie.Cruz)
from IP address

C. Leonard Allen Lipscomb Trinity as Antichrist

C.Leonard.Allen.Trinity.and AntiChrist.html

prophesied and fulfilled in Revelation 17-18

Discovering our Roots

1Pet. 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

C. Leonard Allen on the Trinity.

1Cor. 8:6 But to us there is but one God [Theos], the Father,
of whom are all things, and we in him;
and one Lord [Kurios] Jesus Christ,
by whom are all things, and we by him.

God made Jesus of Nazareth TO BE Lord and Christ.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
that God hath made that same Jesus,
whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

John says that if you deny that Father God and Son Lord you are ANTI-Christ

God the Father breaths (spirit) into Jesus without metron (meter) and Jesus SPEAKS only what He hears from the Father.

Commands Examples and Inferences

Scripture and recorded history defends God's right to speak ONCE FOR ALL TIMES and will not tolerate a latter day creature to claim the role of creator FOR THEIR CULTURE. Christ said of those who do not SPEAK the Word THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

Spirit of Divination at Lipscomb

Ephesians 4 Unity in Diversity NOT

Gary Holloway wants Churches of Christ to join the WORLD'S religion Jesus died to put down.

A. Oikoumen-2 (sc. g), h, A. inhabited region, v. oikeo A. 1 ; then the Greek world, opp. barbarian lands, The inhabited world, h philia perikhoreuei tn oi.

B. Dioik-e diksamn keep house: hence, generally, control, manage, administer, manage after one's own will and pleasure, managing to make such iniquitous profits, act collusively with ton kosmon Id.Phdr.246c;

C. kosmos , ho, A. order, kata kosmon in order, duly, shamefully, generally, of things, natural order, ornament, decoration, esp. of women, metaph., of ornaments of speech, such as epithets, to sing sweet songs of praise, world-order, universe, first in Pythagoras, of earth, as opp. heaven, 3. in later Gr., = oikoumen, the known or inhabited world, 5. houtos ho k. this present world, i.e. earth, OPPOSITE. heaven, Ev.Jo.13.1; regarded as the kingdom of evil, ho arkhn tou k. toutou ib.12.31.

Kenneth Sublett


Christian Church [World] Convention and Lipscomb's Bible Professor

John Waddey

I realize that most members of the Church of Christ know nothing of an Executive Director to represent us and attend to our needs. But the February/March issue of the Christian Chronicle tells us that "Bible Professor, Minister Named Director of World Convention." The Chronicle reporter then adds, "The convention includes members of Churches of Christ, Christian Churches and Disciples of Christ." That Bible Professor is Dr. Gary Holloway, professor at Lipscomb University and preacher for the Natchez Trace Church of Christ of Nashville. You may wonder just what is this "World Convention?" It is the World Convention of the Disciples of Christ, Christian Churches and the pitiful handful of liberal Churches of Christ who have embraced the Change Movement. The convention is the creation of the Disciples of Christ, who a century ago abandoned the commitment to restore the faith and practice of the first century church. Theologically and culturally, they stand among the most liberal Protestant denominations.

Their World Convention is a vital part of their ecumenical outreach that includes involvement with the World Council of Churches. They presume to speak for those who trace their roots back to the "Stone-Campbell Movement." They look to Barton Stone and Alexander Campbell as the founders of their denomination.

I can understand the Disciples of Christ wanting a World Convention. They do not feel bound to abide by the teaching of Christ on any subject, thus they create anything they wish to have for their work. The marvel is that a minister of a Church of Christ and a professor at Christian school associated with the Church of Christ would be compatible with and acceptable to leaders of the Disciples of Christ. Could it be that he shares their view of Christianity?

Fellowship between our brethren and the Disciples of Christ was broken in the last quarter of the 19th century. The division was over such matters as their creation of a missionary society and a general convention that proposed to conduct business for the entire brotherhood, instrumental music in worship, women preachers and church leaders and theological liberalism. In that division the liberals captured some 85 percent of our brotherhood and virtually all of our schools and mission outposts. Bro. David Lipscomb led our brethren in opposing their apostasy. Through the pages of his Gospel Advocate he and his associates stood as a bulwark that kept the liberals from sweeping the entire brotherhood into their camp. Lipscomb gave his farm and his resources to create the Christian School that yet bears his name, as a means of training young Christians who would be faithful to Christ, his church and his word. He did so that they would know to reject the departures of the Disciples of Christ. In the twentieth century, the Disciples church devolved further from the teaching of Christ and have now lost virtually all resemblance to the church of the Bible. In recent years they have opened their fellowship to homosexuals. They are now a shrinking, declining body of people.

Does it not strike you as strange that a man who is a professor of Bible at David Lipscomb's school would now be eager to join hands with those who almost destroyed us in the past. The Disciples certainly have not changed. They are further away, not one inch closer to the Bible, than a century ago. It is remarkable that the president and trustees of Lipscomb University seem fully comfortable with the professor who has obviously abandoned all that Bro. Lipscomb stood for?

Is it not remarkable that a congregation of Christ's church would be content for their preacher to be the Executive Director of a liberal denominational organization? It is in the same category as a preacher of the Lord's church serving as a leader of the World Council of Churches.

Dr. Holloway's undergraduate education was at Freed-Hardeman College, a bastion of conservative thought. In recent years he has become a leading spokesman among those calling for changes in the Church of Christ while reaching out to his denominational peers. As has been true in a multitude of other cases, when a liberal preacher meets a liberal religious organization, they embrace, exchange a kiss of greeting and walk hand in hand away from Christ.

I don't know about you, but as for me and my house we choose to stay with Jesus who is head over all things to the church of which we are members (Eph. 1:22).

John Waddey, Editor
Christianity: Then and Now


This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Nov 5, 2016 5:11 PM

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: Christian Church [World] Convention and Lipscomb's Bible Professor

March 3 2010, 9:16 AM 

According to Lipscomb University's web site, some of the Bible faculty have received advanced degrees not only from institutions associated with the Church of Christ, but also from institutions associated with the denominations, such as Southern Baptist and Presbyterian seminaries and "multi-denominalional" seminaries. So it makes you wonder what kind of religious teaching the Lipscomb students are getting from such an ecumenical Bible faculty. Years ago, Lipscomb's Bible faculty were comprised entirely of men who were trained in schools associated only with the Church of Christ. Now it would seem that Lipscomb wants a more "diversified" Bible faculty.

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Joe Spivy
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Lipscomb Faculty

March 5 2010, 7:07 AM 

Could you give an example of the time (how many "years ago"), with the names of Bible instructors, when your statement was true? It doesn't have to be the last time it was true just an idea of a time when it was true. Thank you.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: Lipscomb Faculty

March 5 2010, 11:01 AM 

I graduated from Lipscomb (then) College in 1971. The Lipscomb Bible faculty that preached Bible Truth back then were, for example, Batsell Barrett Baxter, Leo Snow, J.C. Goodpasture, Clyde Miller. That's certainly not an exhaustive list, but it will give you a start. I don't recall any of the Bible faculty at that time who had advanced degrees from explicitly denominational institutions like Southern Baptist and Presbyterian seminaries.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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March 5 2010, 12:22 PM 

I had previously stated, "Years ago, Lipscomb's Bible faculty were comprised entirely of men who were trained in schools associated only with the Church of Christ." I must back up and clarify that. The statement was not meant to imply that those men had received advanced degrees exclusively from schools associated with the church of Christ and nowhere else. Many also received advanced degrees from divinity schools associated with large universities. The point I am making is that I do not know of any of the Lipscomb Bible faculty back in the late '60s and early '70s who received advanced degrees from schools that were explicitly associated with the denominations, such as Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodist seminaries.

If Lipscomb wants to remain a school associated with the church of Christ and teach church of Christ doctrine, which comes straight from the Bible, then why would Lipscomb bring in Bible faculty who have been trained in schools and seminaries that are explicitly associated with the denominations?

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Ken Sublett
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March 5 2010, 5:48 PM 

Lowery's first "let's suppose" was to determine whether Lipscomb would continue to be associated with the Church of Christ. That would be like the president of a public company deciding whether it would honor the investment of the owners. Of course, in the postmodern era lying is not lying based on "eminent domain." Having read much of the stuff promoted by the faculty I can tell you that there is little that would pass for scholarship even within denominational schools.

INCLUSIVE you must be and suppress all DISTINCTIVES of the people who founded and funded the college. However, Lipscomb had some early strange views.

The other influence has been by people who are careless readers of the Restoration Documents. As a result they paint Campbell as ecumenical and a trinitarian: both false. Allen and Hughes blame the "failure" of the Church of Christ" on rejecting the views of William Miller who convinced the Disciples that THEY had to form a society and convert all of the Jews BEFORE it would be possible for Jesus to Return. They miss the fact that Campbell reviewed all of the millenniel views and rejected them all as literal. He clearly saw the kingdom set up at the First advent.

They have told the lie that the Church of Christ became a legalistic, sectarian group in 1906 by DIVIDING from the Christian. Some trick since the NACC was not founded until 1927 and the split from the Disciples not complete until 1971. That was when men like Leroy Garret began an effort at UNITY which always meant "you add instruments and we can be in unity." Since that time the NACC has sponsored "unity meetings" at which they pass out their "white paper" filled with black lies. The recent hostile takeovers by Max Lucado, Rick Atchley, Ronnie Norman, Chris Seidman and Mark Henderson has been HANDLED with agents from the NACC holding hands and working to convince the "scholars" at places like ACU that God actually CAOMMANDED instrumental praise.

Gardner Hall: The most eloquent protests against such worldliness have come not from the more conservative elements of "the mainstream" but from progressives such as C. Leonard Allen, John Mark Hicks and Rubel Shelly. In various books and publications, they plead for more personal spirituality, Bible study and prayer even as they press for women in the pulpit, acceptance of instrumental music in worship and other elements of their progressiveagenda. The authors of the book, Kingdom Come... are from this progressive group

(3) Harding and Lipscomb represented the third stream seen among churches around 1900. The authors call it the "Nashville Bible School Tradition." Richard Hughes used the term "apocaliptic" to describe this third approach and feels that it originated with Barton W. Stone.

Ed Harrell prefers the term "cultural separatism." It was characterized by an emphasis on separation from the world, pacifism, a belief in the personal indwelling of the Spirit, concern for the poor, Gods providential intervention apart from the Word and in the case of Harding, R.H. Boll and others, premillennialism.

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Tom Brite
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Re: Clarification

March 5 2010, 8:58 PM 

Joe, nothing like catching Bill in another lie and watching him squirm.

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Joe Spivy
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Misstatement - We've all made them

March 9 2010, 5:52 PM 

It was not my intent to catch someone or to watch them squirm. The statement to which I responded may not have been entirely correct but I too have been guilty of making statements which were imprecise.

Batsell Barrett Baxter, for whom two very close relatives are named, had a profound influence for good on many people, as did the other men who were mentioned. It is my understanding that brother Baxter earned a B.D. degree from Vanderbilt. The Divinity School there was at one time associated with the Methodist Episcopal Church, South but made the decision to become ecumenical in the early 20th century. Leo Snow received his M.Div. from Vanderbilt.

Clyde Miller, in addition to his studies at Harding and Southern Christian, attended Hebrew Union- a Jewish school.

I am unconvinced one's Alma mater is the culprit. For the sake of the conversation, it would be helpful for me if the specific concerns and areas of disagreement with the Bible faculty (and the direction of the school) were identified.

This is not an attempt to defend, condemn, or vilify an individual or institution. I would simply like to be able to follow the discussion without distractions which, at times, seem unrelated.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: Misstatement - We've all made them

March 10 2010, 12:47 AM 

It would seem that the goal of some people (not Joe) is to vilify and vent their perpetual anger and hatred against those with whom they disagree. They contribute nothing to the discussion, only hateful distractions which are, indeed, unrelated to the topic at hand.

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john p. crowder
(Login Tarmangani)

Not so fast there..

December 8 2015, 1:50 AM 

I must take gentle issue with your statement that "Years ago, Lipscomb's Bible faculty were comprised entirely of men who were trained in schools associated only with the Church of Christ." I do not know how far back you go with your "[y]ears ago," but in the years that I was at Lipscomb, 1958-1962,there were several Bible teachers who matriculated from divinity schools and seminaries not associated with Churches of Christ. Among these were the late Dr. J.E. Choate, well known on this web site and a bulwark for defense of the "old paths." Dr. Choate received an advanced degree from the Vanderbilt University Divinity School, as did Dr. Batsell Barrett Baxter, and Dr. Cliett Goodpasture, son of the venerable B.C. Goodpasture. All these men were faithful preachers of the gospel and utterly without any of the inclinations to liberalism so unfortunately rampant in the church today. There might well have been others with this kind of academic history. I just happen to be familiar with those I have named. Dr. Choate lived three doors down the street from me and I had him as both teacher and neighbor; Dr. Baxter was a close friend of my family and my late mother was his secretary at the Hillsboro Church. He baptized me and officiated at my wedding. Dr. Cliett Goodpasture grew up in the Hillsboro Church, as did I.

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: Not so fast there..

December 8 2015, 5:29 PM 

Just my view for the presence but there are probably at least two categories of people who attend such schools: Historic scholars and probably many still teaching are not attached to and do not need to defend a strict list of creedal statements.

Others, are no so much interested in seeking the truth as pursuing a "career path" and are forced to follow their favorite professors who also supply their own textbook.

While people fought over whether elders should force their members to support another person's agenda, my personal experiences point to the 1968 "restructure" of the Disciples-Christians and the DEcensusing of the NACC by the Disciples in 1971. That was followed by or even preceded by the Stone-Campbell Movement.

That led to attacking each and every practice of the historic Church of Christ which was never "unioned" with the Disciples-Christians or any other group. Those who return from other universities were probably poorly trained before they entered graduate schools. At that time they had no "church" universities to ADVANCE.

Marty E. Martin does a job on Hughes and Allen who blamed Churches of Christ with just trying to IMITATE Bible churches which is NEVER the case since so many of the epistles are corrections of false teacing:
With the publication of The American Quest for the Primitive Church, edited by Richard T. Hughes, and Illusions of Innocence: Protestant Primitivism in America, 1630-1875, by Hughes and C. Leonard Allen, primitivism is becoming a key interpretive category the way "millennium" once did.

Whatever the failures, churches were established to obey the direct command simply to "teach that which as been taught." These people cannot grasp that SABBATH or PAUO is not given to clergy but to the LAITY and REST was always connected with SKHOLE:

skhol-azō , have leisure or spare time, to be at leisure, have nothing to do, Devote oneself to a Master: Jesus is the ONLY Master Teacher even when Senior Pastors claim that THEY are
3. abs., devote oneself to learning: hence, give lectures (cf. “skholē”
peri logous” especially of students, study, [THEIR RIGHT TO] attend lectures, devote oneself to a master, attend his lecture
3. abs., devote oneself to learning: hence, give lectures (cf. “skholē” 11), Apollon.Perg. Con. 1 Praef.; “s. Athēnēsin” Phld.Rh.1.95 S.; “en Lukeiō” [Lyceum where Aristotle held lectures]

NOT: named after the neighbouring temple of Apollo [Apollon-Abaddon] Lukeios

Claiming that God commanded "instrumental praise" everyone spouts Hughes and Allen to charge that Churches of Christ (lumped with Mormons) with being primitives for simply teaching "that which has been taught." Whatever one can say about the good, bad and ugly in churches to claim that NOT using instruments is not based on Biblical teaching proves that whatever their scholarship they have read much Bible.

Martin continues Mark Noll is puzzled: how can Olbricht include as primitive the impulse of New Englanders to collect European books, to write 6,000 pages of manuscript as Cotton Mather did, to study German as Moses Stuart did, or to undertake perilous voyages to the Old World to hear complex lectures on early Christianity?

If there are any unbiased scholars left at LU they certainly know how to keep silent. Maybe after they get tenure?

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Ken Sublett
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To name just a few of them ALL.

March 10 2010, 11:01 AM 

Rhonda Lowery is a founding mother of the Spiritual Formation from Fuller and others.
She has been teaching it at Lipscomb and now they have a new college of Spiritual Formation. Another word would be witchcraft. They believe that they can go into a monkish trance and hear the TRUE spiritual word of some god.

Rubel Shelly was back in the saddle this year along with John York and some of the Rochester College.
The born from ABOVE is an old Shelly and John Harris belief that they are BORN FROM ABOVE. Therefore, they have the right to use their imagination to revision a new set of Scriptures for our postmodern (hee haw) culture.

Rehash of an old foolish paper

John Mark Hicks is promoting the old but new Hardiman patternism which is in conflict with the conservative Texas pattern. He distorts Alexander Campbell (they all do) to make him into a TRINITARIAN. However, considtent with liberal artists he ignores the real writings of Campbell. The LU theses hatched by H. Leo Boles is that the godhead is something like three men able to hold conferences. They are now ecumenical promoting instrumental music, a wider role for women, and an "apocalyptic" vision where they claim falsely that the Church of Christ destroyed itself by not accepting the millenniel views of A.C. Of course, they don't know--couldn't know--that millenniel harbinger intended to EXPLAIN and repudiate all of the literal views.

Their Bible guru got outed by his daughter and had to leave: now a leading board member--spokesman is on the police blotter.

To name just a few.

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Tom Brite
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Re: To name just a few of them ALL.

March 11 2010, 7:57 AM 

It would seem the goal of one (not Joe) is to come to this site and make outlandish statements which have no basis in truth. Luckily, there are some at this site who read the posts and check them for truth and accuracy.

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Dr. Bill Crump
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Re: To name just a few of them ALL.

March 11 2010, 1:21 PM 

It appears that differences between two people have created a distraction to the theme of this thread. Therefore, I offer the following parable:

Jim was talking to an acquaintance, Victor, about selling his car. Victor asked about the mileage on the car. Jim said, "25,000." Victor was interested in buying the car and wanted to see it. But when he got into the car and saw that the odometer actually read 26,566, he got out and shouted curses at Jim, calling him a "liar" because Jim had not given the EXACT figure on the odometer. Jim said he had not remembered the exact mileage but had given a ballpark figure to Victor. Yet Victor would not accept Jim's honest explanation and continued to brand him as a "liar." Victor preferred to believe that Jim was trying to gyp Victor instead of believing the truth that Jim had only made an honest mistake. From that point, Victor made it a point to follow Jim around and sought every opportunity to vilify and berate him as a "liar." Victor chose to fill his life with hatred and animosity toward Jim.

"Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift" (Matt. 5:23-24 KJV).

If a mean-spirited person like Victor takes pleasure in smearing Jim as a "liar" because of a simple mistake, then there is little chance for a reconciliation between those two people.

He who hath an ear...

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Your Ole Pal
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A Parable Indeed

March 16 2010, 9:24 PM 

Jim is not only giving a dishonest odometer reading but making it worse by telling Victor a lie. When Jim said...."25,000" and "25,000" only then he should have told him AT THAT TIME that the 25,000 was only an estimate. Telling Victor AFTER the fact that he had not remembered the exact mileage is not only dishonest, but an outright lie. As spoken in the parabale, the honest explanation from Victor is really NOT an honest explanation. The parable also failed to mention whether or not if Victor offered an aplology to Jim for the lie he told. An apology would be very important here. You can't forgive someone if the someone doesn't offer up a confession.
I realize that William Crump is the one offering up this 'parable' but we wonder why would Victor need to follow Jim around and hound him? He really wouldn't need to.....a dishonest reputation will be known to all without the need for a single soul to continue to point it out.

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(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: A Parable Indeed

December 15 2015, 7:09 PM 

Dave ALWAYS tries to mickey-mouse the subject:

Because of instrumental-trinitarian idolatry at Mount Sinai god gave them kings IN HIS ANGER to carry out the captivity and death sentence. "A man after God's own heart" has nothing to do with the spiritual nature of a KING selected to carry out His will AGAINST the Jews. People always accuse God of being ignorant: If God had wanted to say that David was a PATTERN as Military Commander for Spiritual Worship then if God is above Simple Simon grade He would have said "I want you to follow DAVID as worship leader." Paul said follow ME as I follow Jesus Christ. This statement means that God PICKED David as king over Israel AFTER He had terminally dismissed them.

Acts 13:20 And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.
Acts 13:21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

David was the produce of NOT APT elders as a Prophetic Type.

1Sa 8:4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,

1Sa 8:5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: make us a king to judge us like all the nations

1Sa 8:6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD.

1Sa 8:7 And the LORD said unto Samuel,
.....Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee:
.....for they have not rejected thee,
.....but they have rejected me,
..... that I should not reign over them.

1Sa 8:8 According to all the works which they have done
.....since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day,
.....wherewith they have forsaken me,
.....and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

Sa 8:9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice:
.....howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them,
.....and show them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

1Sa 8:10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king.

1Sa 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you:
.....He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots,
.....and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.
1Sa 8:12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands,
.....and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground,
.....and to reap his harvest,
.....and to make his instruments of war,
.....and instruments of his chariots. [/color]

1Sa 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day
.....because of your king which ye shall have chosen you;
.....and the LORD will not hear you in that day. [/b]

1Sa 8:19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said,
.....Nay; but we will have a king over us;

1Sa 8:20 That we also may be like all the nations;
.....and that our king may judge us,
.....and go out before us, and fight our battles.

THE NATIONS WERE THE GENTILES BUT NOT THE GODLY ISRAELITES. Jacob in Genesis 49 cursed the Levites and after musical idolatry he abandoned them to STAND IN RANKS and guard the PAGAN sacrificial system so that not even David could enter into the Carnal Houses as types: starving was the EXCEPTION.

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Dec 15, 2015 7:15 PM

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)


January 4 2016, 11:45 AM 

Paul, Heredotus and the Greeks had a word for SELLING any of your body parts especially the wise or Sophists meaning speaking on your own, singing or playing instruments. The Spirit of Christ called Lucifer "the singing and harp-playing prostitute" in the garden of Eden. Jesus warned about the Babylon Mother of Harlots using speakers, singers and instrument players: all such religious sellers were called Parasites.

One of my old "investments" has a SCHOOL teaching the CHRISTIAN WORLD VIEW. To this all of the well-known and well-published good-bad-ugly are invited to teach the WORLD view but not Christian. Jesus said that His kingdom is not OF THIS WORLD and His disciples will not be OF this world. When THEY speak no one buys their books nor hires them to lecture: they will be despised and hated just as was Jesus.

The only WORLD VIEW is ANTI-Christian and will burn with the rest and the best.

By definition, no one getting rich and famous can NOT violate the direct command to go, suffer and teach what JESUS commanded to do: that is Holy Scripture in the Prophets and apostles.

The KEY to getting rich off calling Jesus and all of the writers including Isaiah and Malachi LIARS is to debunk the role of baptism which is THE TEST of those waiting for the invitation to come up higher. The claim and teach Spiritual Formation or other forms of sorcery to understand what Jesus WOULD have said if He had a Phd from School of Doctors of the Law--trained in how to take away the key to knowledge.

If you can PROCURE it from a bookstore or anyone then you are buying CORRUPTED WORD: ripe for the plucking.

Deut. 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

Is. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Is. 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

Jesus HIDES from the Wise or Sophists: self-speakers for hire, singers or instrument players.

Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites: In Ezekiel 33 Christ names performance speakers for hire (a hireling), singers or instrument players."

This is to MARK OUT the Role of TEACHER as being a very DANGEROUS undertaking even when you KNOW only a crucified Saviour and GO OUT to suffer and die.

[linked image]

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Part 2 Hirelings selling their own STUFF

January 4 2016, 10:11 PM 

The Greek World and Scripture has some nasty names for those who "sell learning at retail." In numerous passages the WORD or LOGO includes teaching the Word as it has been taught (apt elders) and NOT selling slick speaking, singing, playing instruments and any "works of human hands" which MARKS it as EXCLUDED from the Kindgom within the little flock. Using any of your body parts or presumed skill marked the Teachers who fell into selling their own opinions or actions.

Note that that this is one of the KAIROS concept now founding churches of whatever stripe and calling them churches of Christ. One of the Lipscomb-Harpeth "daughter" church is called the ETHOS: they think with all of that money to get a Simonizing degree that ETHOS means a new superior ETHICAL Church of Christ which says, in fact, that the regular churches are not ETHICAL.

KAIROS is the Demon spirit of Zeus who is the son of Chronos in the Neo-Greek "worship centers." Kairos time means JUST THE RIGHT TIME TO MOUNT AN ATTACK and ETHOS has to do with GENTILES who is the antithesis of Spiritual Israel. The ETHOS or GENTILES are now TRAMPLING THE COURTS and even taking their instruments INTO what they dub as a holy place.

[linked image]

This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address on Jan 4, 2016 10:17 PM

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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

C.Leonard Allen Antichrist.Trinity Part A

July 11 2016, 1:45 PM 

C. Leonard Allen advances to Lipscomb University based on his AntiChristian view sthat A holy spirit person guides the LU clan beyond the recorded Words of Jesus which He said have no statute of limitations.

Allen rejects Scripture as PRIMITIVE and STUPID as the foundation of all historic Churches which claimed to be built upon the Word, Logos or Regulative Principle. That is why theologians will never be able to SELL anything which belongs to Jesus Christ and the Spirit which defined the future Church of Christ both inclusively and exclusively in the prophets.

[linked image]

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C. Leonard Allen and Cruciform

July 13 2016, 4:48 AM 

I note that a "seed church" has been planted in Spring Lake, NC, that calls itself the "Cruciform Church of Christ." It appears to be non-instrumental, but the use of the term "cruciform" makes me a little suspicious, as that is the title of one of C. Leonard Allen's books. I know someone looking for a congregation in that area and I have been asked about this one. Does anyone know anything. I guess this post could have gone over to where the discussion of the visible symbol of the cross took place, or over in the more churches category which is not updated very often. But C. Leonard Allen seems like the best place tonight.

Collins and Pullias both obtained divinity degrees from Vandy. I am pretty sure by the 60's there were several who were/had attended outright denominational "seminaries." I can remember hearing some discussions about the possibility of changing emphasis from Bible/preacher to theology in late '50s and '60s.

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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site;

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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