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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.13

Answer to Wayne Miller: Part Two

May 14 2010, 10:48 PM 

Titus 3 - NIV

9.) But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10.) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11.) You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


PUT them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, Titus 3:1

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. Titus 3:3

Edone (g2237) hay-don-ay'; from handano , (to please); sensual delight; by impl. desire: - lust, pleasure

FROM whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ja.4:1

Hêdonê , 3. Pl., desires after pleasure, pleasant lusts, X.Mem.1.2.23, Ep.Tit.3.3, al. A. enjoyment, pleasure, first in Simon.71, S.l.c., Hdt.1.24, al.; prop. of sensual pleasures,

2 The orthios nomos was a high-pitched (and apparently very well-known) song or hymn in honor of Apollo.


Titus 3:8 This is a faithful saying. and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Foolish is:

Moros (g3474) mo-ros'; prob. from the base of 3466; dull or stupid (as if shut up), i.e. heedless, (mor.) blockhead, (appar.) absurd: - fool (-ish, * -ishness).

Môros A. môran Herod.5.17 (s. v.l.):--dull, sluggish, of the nerves, b. in a religious sense, laos m. kai akardios [p. 1159] LXXJe.5.21,al.


You have to be on the STAFF to be contentious.

CONTENTIONS
Agôn-istikos , 2. fit for contest in speaking, a. lexis debating style
3. masterly, striking, a. prorrêmata Hp.Art.58 ; a. ti echous a having in it something glorious
b. Rhetoric, striking, impressive,
4. Medic., 'heroic', i.e. copious
II. of persons, contentious, eager for applause,
2. Dramatic Aeido sing, Il.1.604, etc.: hence of all kinds of vocal sounds, crow as cocks, Pl.Smp..223c; hoot as owls, of other sounds, twang, of the bow-string, sing, chant praise, celebrate, OPPOSITE of Calming.


A man that is an heretick, after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10

In Romans 15 Paul outlawed self pleasure derived from the word:

Hairetikos (g141) hahee-ret-ee-kos'; from the same as 140; a schismatic: - heretic [the Gr. word itself].

In the Greek sacrificial systems the musicians were called PARASITES who made the lambs dumb before the slaughter. The HERETIC was the priest who "lifted them up to cut their throats."

This word is

Airo (g142) ah'ee-ro; a prim. verb; to lift; by impl. to take up or away; fig. to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); spec. to sail away (i.e. weigh anchor); by Heb. [comp. 5375] to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

This is the same as the LADED BURDEN Jesus outlawed as "creating spiritual anxiety through religious ritual." In both Hebrew and Greek a BURDEN is the form of repeating type songs so popular in 'worship" as vain repitition. The REST Jesus gave us means "STOP the speaking, singing, playing instruments." Pretty elementary to anyone who knows that ekklesia is a School (only) of the Word (only).

This is the SELF PLEASURE Paul outlawed for the synagogue in Romans 15 and LIMITED it to speaking with one mind and one mouth and using that which is written.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.43

Wayne's verses: Part Three

May 14 2010, 11:48 PM 

Paul always repudiates the performance religions of the world before he defines the role of the church or ekklesia which beginning as The Church in the wilderness was:

INCLUSIVE of rest, reading and rehearsing the word. That is what you do as a DISCIPLE
EXCLUSIVE of vocal or instrumental rejoicing. That would not be hallucinated if people understood "church" and had respect to Jesus Christ as our sole Teacher when we teachthat which has been taught.

I have had to put together some pictures so the links won't work

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Wayne Miller
(no login)
98.214.241.181

Response to Ken Sublett

May 16 2010, 12:08 AM 

Proverbs 18 - NIV

2.) Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions.


Titus 3 - NIV

9.) But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10.) Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11.) You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.


First warning.


=========================

Edited the author's name from: [font color="#F26E00"]Wayne Miller

Edited the message title from: [font color="#F26E00"]Response to Ken Sublett[/font]


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on May 24, 2010 1:07 AM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

A great message for Change Agents operating in the brotherhood

May 16 2010, 1:04 AM 

Wayne,

If change agents weren't divisive and trouble-makers in the church, they would be seeking fellowship with those who already share their beliefs, i.e., somewhere else. The church that Christ established does not need transformation or modification. If it weren't for the change agents, this website wouldn't be in existence today. But it is here because their efforts to destroy the church and disturb peaceful congregations need to be exposed. These agents remind me of the progressive and liberal agenda in politics that are subtly and gradually destroying America -- in the same manner are they destroying the church of Jesus Christ.


 
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Wayne Miller
(no login)
98.214.241.181

Re: A great message for Change Agents operating in the brotherhood

May 16 2010, 6:30 AM 

"If it weren't for the change agents, this website wouldn't be in existence today. But it is here because their efforts to destroy the church and disturb peaceful congregations need to be exposed."

Matthew 18 - NIV
15.)If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16.) But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17.) If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Galatians 6 - NIV
1.) Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. 2.) Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. 3.) If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4.) Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, 5.) for each one should carry his own load.

Ephesians 4 - NIV
29.) Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30.) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31.) Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32.) Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.



"The church that Christ established does not need transformation or modification."

Hebrews 13 - NIV
8.) Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

1 Corinthians 12 - NIV
27.) Now you are the body of Christ, and each of you is a part of it.

Colossians 1 - NIV
18.) And he (Christ) is the head of the body, the church.

Romans 3 - NIV
23.) For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Glad to know that you agree: Change Agents are divisive

May 16 2010, 8:00 PM 

Good to know you're in agreement with what the Scripture teaches regarding unity in the church. You're also in agreement with the objective of this website -- change agents need NOT modify how God structured His church. In other words, they should leave peaceful congregations alone.

The efforts of change agents in the brotherhood need to be stopped. Their acquired doctrine and teachings must be refuted -- they cause division and turmoil in the church. There are congregations that have been thankful to this website for having exposed their acquired beliefs from the denominational world.

Clearly, as the passages you quoted confirm and assert -- the kingdom of Christ shall stand forever; it does not need the wisdom of change agents. Truly, they should leave the church alone. Otherwise, they start their own church(es) from scratch.

 
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Ken Sublett
(no login)
67.142.130.12

The FIRST part of Titus 3

May 16 2010, 2:22 PM 

My guess is that Charlie is that falsetto who gets POWER POINTS when he sings, claps, gyrates with or without "a machine for doing hard work" to produce SYMPHONY or making all of the bodies move in sync: that was always known as "leading you into the presence of the gods or demons so THEY could enrapture or RAPE anyone whose ARMS will clap of fly.

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

Christ Who DOES NOT speak through the old Levite baby burning cult but prophets like Isaiah warned those OF FAITH or OF TRUTH that these are the marks of SIGHT AND SOUND of God driving His enemies into hell -- just outside of Jerusalem the city set on seven hills and the mother of harlots.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

Sorry Charlie! no SUCKER FISH in Christ's net. The "lusted after fruits" are also defined by Titus 3 but NOT readable for anyone who has pretended to be Christ standing in the holy place CLAIMING to be mediators in song and limpy-armed preaching.

Maybe you can come back as an earthworm: I am told that they won't make the same mistake three times in a row.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Dave's PA System vs. Piano Argument

May 17 2010, 2:25 AM 

Dave stated the following:

"[1] The PA system ... AIDS in the worship to our Lord but does ... so with the piano which also
AIDS in the worship to our Lord. Man takes it upon himself to delineate between the two."


Brief response to Dave: Dave, I'll have to disappoint you a bit because I'm having the Primitive Baptist
Church respond to you. Why? Because you have that much disregard for what the Scripture says and
what the church of Christ [of which you are a member] says about IM in accordance with scriptural
specifications.

(1). God told Noah to make thee an ark of gopher wood... (Gen 6:14). God specified the kind of wood,
but that did not eliminate aids. What aids could he use?


=======================================================
Commandment..........|........Aid........|..Addition
=======================================================
Use gopher wood......|Hammer, Saw........|Poplar, Oak
=======================================================


If built with the hammer and saw, it would still be an ark of gopher wood. If another type of wood were
added, it would not be that which the Lord commanded.


========================================================
Scriptural Example...|........Aid........|..Addition
========================================================
Fruit of the vine....|Table..............|Milk, Coke
________________________________________________________
Bread................|Plate..............|BBQ Pork Chops
========================================================


If served with a plate and on a table, the specified food would still be partaken. If another type of food
were added, it would not be that which the Lord commanded.

Christ wants us to sing. He gives the commandment to sing. He specified the type of music. What would
constitute an aid and an addition?


========================================================
Commandment...|........Aid........|..Addition
========================================================
Sing..........|Song book, Notes...|Play
========================================================x


If we sing with a song book which has notes, the specified music would be heard by God and nothing else.
If another type of music were added, it would not be that which the Lord commanded.


------------ More of David's fallacious arguments later ---------------


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.141.13

Re: Dave's PA System vs. Piano Argument

May 17 2010, 9:44 AM 

Somewhere in this "discussion," Dave mentioned that four-part harmony is no more wrong than IM is wrong. Again, he compares apples to oranges, just as he does with the PA system to IM.

In the New Testament, God does not issue any commands regarding such incidentals in worship as church buildings, pews, podiums, PA systems, kitchens, and even four-part harmony. He simply tells us through Paul to SING and to make melody in our hearts. God neither specifies how loudly or softly we are to sing, how fast or slow, nor does He specify whether we are to sing in unison or in harmony. He does specify the KIND of music to use in worship, which is VOCAL music or singing. That type of music may be sung loudly or softly, fast or slow, in unison or in harmony. Instrumental music is altogether a DIFFERENT kind of music from vocal music. IM is just as different from vocal music as BBQ pork chops and soft drinks are different from bread and fruit of the vine for the Lord's Supper. If we use chops and soft drinks for the Lord's Supper, we add to or substitute what God has commanded to be used. Likewise, if we use IM, we ADD to what He has commanded regarding worship music. We must use what God SPECIFIES for a particular act of worship. Since God gives no command regarding PA systems, church buildings, podiums, kitchens, toilets, and hundreds of other incidentals, then we are free to use them at will, because they DO NOT conflict with any of God's existing commands regarding worship. IM most definitely conflicts with God's existing command to use VOCAL music in worship.


 
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Philip
(no login)
98.23.101.97

Re: Dave's PA System vs. Piano Argument

May 17 2010, 12:45 PM 

IM most definitely conflicts with God's existing command to use VOCAL music in worship.
When ever i sing, it is not in conflict with the instruments. Your own argument is self defeating, simply an aid for those of us who cant carry a song in a bucket. So the problem is how it is "classified" by Donnie, Ken and the other Pharisees on this site. Will no longer view this site, but will continue to work in the Body of Christ for meaningful change.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.13.218

Re: Dave's PA System vs. Piano Argument

May 17 2010, 6:35 PM 

In the New Testament, God never said that singing had to be "on key" or "in tune" for Him to accept it. God doesn't command any sort of AID like IM to accompany singing. We're not talking about whether singing is in conflict with IM. We're talking about whether IM is in conflict with God's existing command to use VOCAL music in worship. Even Philip admits that IM definitely conflicts with God's existing command to use VOCAL music. That should be enough to stop Philip and anyone else from circumventing God and defending IM as an AID, because IM conflicts with God's explicit command to use VOCAL music. It sounds like Philip and others of like mind are basically saying, "Well, even though we well know that IM conflicts with God's command to SING and make melody in our hearts, IM AIDS us to carry a tune, so we're gonna use it anyway. That's not sound logic at all.

So those who will not accept the Truth of the New Testament brand those who preach the Truth as "Pharisees" and vow never to come here again. So be it. BTW, to many, "meaningful change" means twisting and circumventing the WORD of God any way possible to suit man's 21st-century preferences.

 
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Anonymous
(no login)
68.159.146.66

Re: Dave's PA System vs. Piano Argument

May 17 2010, 10:48 PM 






"Singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord."



While the lips sing, the heart must join in the melody by an uplifting to God. Too much singing in the churches is only of the lips. Ephesians 5:19 has nothing to do with IM. The good Dr. Crump was correct. IM is only an "aid".
God approved IM in the OT. The NT tells us there will IM in Heaven. GO FIGURE!




 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Key objective in the assembly: teaching and admonishing

May 17 2010, 11:35 PM 

No, nowhere in Scripture, Old or New Testament, does it ever show that God approved, authorized
or commanded that lifeless, inanimate musical objects be used in the gathering of saints.

It was David, the skilled musician and dancer, king of Israel who commanded it or
ordained musical instruments (II Chron. 29:27).

-- God did not authorize, approve or command it
-- Even Moses did NOT....
-- Christ did NOT....
-- The apostles did NOT....

-- David the musician did....
-- Nebuchadnezzar doubly did it: idolatry & musical idolatry (Daniel 3)
-- Anonymous does....

Oh, the symbolism in the book of Revelation!!! Harps in heaven, right? What about
beasts and golden vials full of odours (incense). Them, too, right?

The key instruction in Eph. and Colossians is "letting the words of Christ dwell in
you richly ... teaching and admonishing one another in ... songs" -- NOT PLAYING.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.196.220

Re: Key objective in the assembly: teaching and admonishing

May 18 2010, 12:03 AM 

I remember this same argument on FaithSite, which is now defunct. Some folks were of the mindset that of all the symbolisms in Revelation, ONLY the musical instruments would be literal in Heaven. Just as folks select IM from the Old Testament and throw out all the other religious rituals and rites of the Law of Moses, so these same folks select the symbolic "harps" of Revelation as alleged "proof" that there will be literal musical instruments in Heaven and throw out all the myriad other symbols mentioned in Revelation. So these folks jump from either the Old Testament, the religious rituals of which are no longer applicable to Christianity, OR they go all the way to the apocalyptic literature of Revelation in desperate search for literal IM. Yet even Revelation mentions NOTHING of IM in worship ON EARTH. Some folks are so DESPERATE to have IM that they will circumvent, fabricate, and twist Scripture to "justify" IM.

People have not yet learned to accept the FACT that the Gospels, the Acts, and the apostolic epistles mention not one shred of evidence that points to first-century Christians using harps or ANY form of IM in their worship. It's just a perpetuation of the Fruity Loop.

 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Donnie is wrong

May 18 2010, 7:50 AM 

And we, God, and His word through the scriptures have proven it. Donnie and Ken are either too ignortant, too stubborn, or too rebellious to admit it.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.157.38.19

Re: Donnie is wrong

May 18 2010, 10:45 AM 

Name-calling is not much of a rebuttal, Ray.

 
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Ray
(no login)
75.53.149.13

The rebuttal scriptures

May 18 2010, 9:00 PM 

The rebuttal scriptures proving Ken and Donnie wrong have already been posted. They have have been dismissed, but not from scriptures but from either ignorant or a rebellious human interpretation.

How long will you hold to their error?

You might also look at 1 Chronicles 15 as well as those already posted.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.251.43

Serving Two Covenants

May 19 2010, 8:27 AM 

How long will Ray and others of like mind serve two Covenants? Since Christians cannot serve God and mammon, Christians also cannot serve two Covenants. If Ray carries any part of the Law of Moses over to Christianity, such as taking IM from Second Chronicles and Psalm 150, he takes the rituals of the Law of Moses (which Christ nailed to the cross--Col. 2:14) into Christianity. IM was used to accompany the sacrifices and burnt offerings to praise God in the Old Testament under the Law of Moses. Therefore, Ray and others of like mind serve two Covenants. That just won't wash.

 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

A Review of Music in the Old Testament

May 19 2010, 2:01 PM 

The following is NOT a review of what God authorizes or approves under the New Testament - that is another discussion. This is a scriptural refutation of the false teaching that God never authorized or approved instrumental music under the Old Testament.

This review doesn't cover all Old Testament scriptural examples, but a sufficient number to prove that those who reject that God authorized and approved instrumental music under the Old Testament are rejecting God's Word as truth.

David's first attempt to bring the ark of the covenant to Jerusalem is described in 1 Chronicles 13, "So they carried the ark of God on a new cart from the house of Abinadab, and Uzza and Ahio drove the cart. Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.

"God was not pleased with something about this process, and Uzza was struck down. So David, in 1 Chronicles 15, inquired of the Lord what they should be doing. And look at the process they followed after they inquired of God: "Then David said, "No one may carry the ark of God but the Levites, for the LORD has chosen them to carry the ark of God and to minister before Him forever." And David gathered all Israel together at Jerusalem, to bring up the ark of the LORD to its place, which he had prepared for it. Then David assembled the children of Aaron and the Levites: ...

He said to them, "You are the heads of the fathers' houses of the Levites; sanctify yourselves, you and your brethren, that you may bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel to the place I have prepared for it. For because you did not do it the first time, the LORD our God broke out against us, because we did not consult Him about the proper order."

So the priests and the Levites sanctified themselves to bring up the ark of the LORD God of Israel. And the children of the Levites bore the ark of God on their shoulders, by its poles, as Moses had commanded according to the word of the LORD.

Then David spoke to the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brethren to be the singers accompanied by instruments of music, stringed instruments, harps, and cymbals, by raising the voice with resounding joy. ...So he left Asaph and his brothers there before the ark of the covenant of the LORD to minister before the ark regularly, as every day's work required; ... and with them Heman and Jeduthun and the rest who were chosen, who were designated by name, to give thanks to the LORD, because His mercy endures forever; and with them Heman and Jeduthun, to sound aloud with trumpets and cymbals and the musical instruments of God.

Well, what do you know - instrumental music was used after they inquired of God. And as we previously discussed, the Chronicles attribute the presence of the instruments to God's command: "And he stationed the Levites in the house of the LORD with cymbals, with stringed instruments, and with harps, according to the commandment of David, of Gad the king's seer, and of Nathan the prophet; for thus was the commandment of the LORD by his prophets. The Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets. Then Hezekiah commanded them to offer the burnt offering on the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD also began, with the trumpets and with the instruments of David king of Israel. So all the assembly worshiped, the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded; all this continued until the burnt offering was finished." (II Chronicles 29:25-28)

When the temple was dedicated, instrumental music was present, and the God saw fit to fill the temple with His glory - He did not reject instrumental music: "the Levites who were the singers, all those of Asaph and Heman and Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, stood at the east end of the altar, clothed in white linen, having cymbals, stringed instruments and harps, land with them one hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpetsindeed it came to pass, when the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord, and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised the Lord, saying: For He is good, For His mercy endures forever, that the house, the house of the Lord, was filled with a cloud, so that the priests could not continue ministering because of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God." (II Chronicles 5:12-14)

God inspired the psalmists to not only cerate psalms to be sung with instrumental music, but God also inspired them to commend praising God with instruments:

Psalm 4 - To the Chief Musician. With stringed instruments. A Psalm of David.

Psalm 5 - To the Chief Musician. With flutes. A Psalm of David.

Psalm 6 - To the Chief Musician. With stringed instruments. On an eight-stringed harp. A Psalm of David.

Psalm 8 - To the Chief Musician. On the instrument of Gath. A Psalm of David.

Psalm 12 - To the Chief Musician. On an eight-stringed harp. A Psalm of David.

Psalm 33:2,3 - Praise the LORD with the harp; Make melody to Him with an instrument of ten strings. Sing to Him a new song; Play skillfully with a shout of joy.

Psalm 43:4 - Then I will go to the altar of God, To God my exceeding joy; And on the harp I will praise You, O God, my God.

Psalm 47:5-7 - God has gone up with a shout, The LORD with the sound of a trumpet. Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! For God is the King of all the earth; Sing praises with understanding.

Psalm 49:4 - I will incline my ear to a proverb; I will disclose my dark saying on the harp

Psalm 54 - To the Chief Musician. With stringed instruments. A Contemplation of David when the Ziphites went and said to Saul, Is David not hiding with us?

Psalm 55 - To the Chief Musician. With stringed instruments. A Contemplation of David

Psalm 57:7-9 - My heart is steadfast, O God, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and give praise. Awake, my glory! Awake, lute and harp! I will awaken the dawn. I will praise You, O Lord, among the peoples; I will sing to You among the nations.

Psalm 61 - To the Chief Musician. On a stringed instrument. A Psalm of David.

Psalm 67 - To the Chief Musician. On stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song.

Psalm 68:24,25 - They have seen Your procession, O God, The procession of my God, my King, into the sanctuary. The singers went before, the players on instruments followed after; Among them were the maidens playing timbrels.

Psalm 71:22-23 - Also with the lute I will praise YouAnd Your faithfulness, O my God! To You I will sing with the harp, O Holy One of Israel. My lips shall greatly rejoice when I sing to You, And my soul, which You have redeemed.

Psalm 76 - To the Chief Musician. On stringed instruments. A Psalm of Asaph. A Song.

Psalm 81:1-3 - To the Chief Musician. On an instrument of Gath.A Psalm of Asaph. Sing aloud to God our strength; Make a joyful shout to the God of Jacob. Raise a song and strike the timbrel, The pleasant harp with the lute. Blow the trumpet at the time of the New Moon, At the full moon, on our solemn feast day.

Psalm 84 - To the Chief Musician. On an instrument of Gath. A Psalm of the sons of Korah.

Psalm 87:7 - Both the singers and the players on instruments say, All my springs are in you.

Psalm 92:1-3 - It is good to give thanks to the LORD, And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High; To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning, And Your faithfulness every night, On an instrument of ten strings, On the lute, And on the harp, With harmonious sound.

Psalm 98: 4-6 - Shout joyfully to the LORD, all the earth; Break forth in song, rejoice, and sing praises. Sing to the LORD with the harp, With the harp and the sound of a psalm, With trumpets and the sound of a horn; Shout joyfully before the LORD, the King.

Psalm 108:1-3 - O God, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and give praise, even with my glory. Awake, lute and harp! I will awaken the dawn. I will praise You, O LORD, among the peoples, And I will sing praises to You among the nations.

Psalm 144:9 - I will sing a new song to You, O God; On a harp of ten strings I will sing praises to You

Psalm 147:7 - Sing to the LORD with thanksgiving; Sing praises on the harp to our God

Psalm 149:2-4 - Let Israel rejoice in their Maker; Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. Let them praise His name with the dance; Let them sing praises to Him with the timbrel and harp. For the LORD takes pleasure in His people; He will beautify the humble with salvation

Psalm 150:3-5 - Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; Praise Him with the lute and harp! Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with clashing cymbal!

Now we can choose to accept what God has clearly said, what God has clearly inspired. Or we can mock what God has clearly inspired, try to explain away what God has clearly spoken, or rebelliously reject the Word of God.

I choose to accept what the truth of what God has spoken and inspired.


 
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Instrument Music in the O.T.: NONE from God

May 19 2010, 4:11 PM 

Ray,

You can quote all the IM passages from the Old Testament -- none of which substantiates your notion that God ever authorized, commanded, approved or directed the use of musical objects in praise or worship of Him. NONE.

Yes, they may mention the name of a king or a musician having the affinity to the use of musical devices in "praising" God. In fact, David, king of Israel, a dancer and a skilled musician, invented and commanded and ordained musical instruments (II Chron. 29:27; Amos 6:5). And the prophet said, "WOE to...!!!"

Ray, we are not questioning that mankind practiced it in the Old Testament, but we certainly are questioning that God directed or commanded it. The truth is that it was God who specifically commanded His people not to worship gods and idols, not to be idolatrous. And here you are with your musical idolatry and love for man's invention.

 
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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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