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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.246.227

Re: And the Winner Is ... the Truth

September 14 2011, 9:29 AM 

Donnie quotes Paul and Dave can only say, "You lie! You lie!" That's quite a "rebuttal." wink.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.246.227

Re: One Lie to Cover Another Lie

September 14 2011, 10:49 AM 

Dave wrote: Donnie, you also said "In fact, you've (me, Dave) said that soft piano enhances "worship.""

Please show in any of my response where I have said that. Again, you have lied Donnie.


In the thread titled "NOT Using Musical Instruments in the Assembly: Is It a Human Tradition?" Dave wrote the following on May 13, 2011:

Does a piano go beyond vocal music? It ENHANCES the voice, but God doesn't authorize it. Is it then wrong to use a piano? No. Why? Because whether one uses a piano to ENHANCE the voice or not, the singing still occurs.....even though AIDED by the piano.

PREFERENCE!!!

I don't prefer the piano, but to those who do, and give it to the Glory of God to accompany and aid the singing....then HALLELUJAH, and PRAISE GOD!!!


We sing in the assembly to worship God. Since Dave said the piano ENHANCES the voice (singing), then logic says the piano ENHANCES the worship as well. But Dave is trying to say that enhancing the singing is not the same as enhancing the worship, which obviously makes no sense. Donnie didn't lie. If Dave denies what is cited above, then DAVE is lying. BTW, since Dave admitted that God doesn't authorize the piano (or any other musical instrument), then Dave is advocating that we ADD another kind of music (IM) to enhance, aid, and accompany our worship to God in singing and thus go over God's head. God didn't authorize us to aid, accompany, or enhance our worship to God in singing with anything beyond our natural voices.

Dave constantly calls for Donnie to "repent." It looks like Dave is the one who needs to repent.


 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

You Get What You Deserve

September 14 2011, 2:40 PM 

In other words, William, Donnie lied.
Thank you!

I have always said that for those who PREFER instrumental music the piano CAN enhance the voice just as the PA CAN enhance the voice.
Donnie and William prefer the PA but not the instrumental music to aid the singing.
Regardless.....and no matter how you put it.......the DIRECTIVE of singing is still accomplished with or without the instrumental music. The instrumental does not prohibit the singing and CAN aid the singing just as a PA can. Say what you will, I still do not endorse instrumental music which is why I continue to say that instrumental CAN aid the singing. Because I do not endorse them that does not mean that I condemn them either. Just because one does not CONDEMN instrumental music, this does not nor ever will mean that they support instrumental music.
End of story!

Oh, and by the way William, you are included in this ring of evil. I usually just ignore you, but since you enjoy sticking your noise in where it doesn't belong, you certainly can have the same treatment when it comes to being marked. Congratulations! You deserve it!

CEASE AND DESIST!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
207.65.198.246

What is Purpose Driving Church

September 14 2011, 4:02 PM 

have always said that for those who PREFER instrumental music the piano CAN enhance the voice just as the PA CAN enhance the voice.
Donnie and William prefer the PA but not the instrumental music to aid the singing.


Ephesians 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

[linked image]

God does not give the GIFT of rhetoric, singing or playing instruments to accomplish His SINGULAR purpose of revealing HIS secrets hidden from the foundation of the World. NO man knows anything unless it is revealed by the Son. These changelings-hirelings THINK that they have a holy spirit PERSON telling them to impose instruments. Wrong spirit?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.9.230

Re: You Get What You Deserve

September 14 2011, 6:45 PM 

Dave, you're in a convenient state of denial. Donnie didn't lie. YOU did, by saying Donnie lied, when he didn't. Donnie simply quoted what you said on May 13. You said that the piano "enhances" the singing. If a piano allegedly "enhances" singing, then by your logic, all IM enhances singing. And since we worship when we sing in the assembly, then your logic includes the premise that IM enhances worship. Surely you didn't think that when we sing in the assembly we only entertain ourselves and must do other things to worship God. You either had forgotten that you had earlier stated your premise when you challenged Donnie to "prove" that you said it, or you didn't think he or anyone else would be able to go back and pull your statement from the archives. I did just that.

Dave, you would do well to stop your dancing like a wooden puppet on strings and face up to what you said: you see nothing wrong with having IM in the assembly to "enhance" singing [and hence worship]. You also admitted that even though God doesn't authorize the piano [or any IM], it is OK to use, because it "aids, enhances, and accompanies" the singing [and hence worship]. That is simply your highly erroneous opinion; it is NOT based on anything stated in the New Testament, because the New Testament specifies only ONE kind of music--VOCAL MUSIC. Yet your premise clearly implies that people can go over God's head, Dave.

Now you can continue to point your finger, holler, and say, "You are a sinner! Repent! Repent!" yadda yadda yadda until Doom's Day. But we've shown that YOU are the one in dire need of repentance for lying and for advocating that it is OK to go over God's head. Those are some dire sins, son.

 
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Dve
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Repent!!

September 14 2011, 6:31 PM 

Don't feel bad if I ignore you also Ken.
Everyone does.....

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
207.65.198.84

Yep! Me and Jesus and Paul

September 14 2011, 8:07 PM 

My job is to teach: not to make chatty cathy. Take a look at some of the UNIVERSAL marker God laid down as a way to SORT OUT those who have no spiritual foudation and therefore of no value in a future SPIRITUAL world

http://www.piney.com/MuFemin.html

When I launch a paper out into the world I am assured that it will not return empty.
In these last days, the job is to witness: the Book of Enoch etal assures me that when they have made the instruments-makes-worship connection it is hard-wired and there is no turing back: no turning back.

You will remember that the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai just after they were "baptized" and had the Holy Spirit (Christ) guiding them the IMMEDIATELY fell back into their old Egyptian worship of the starry host. When you DO that, God understands it as your "prayer" and He abandons you (Acts 7: not available to scholars) to worship the starry host.

You then become a "lusted after fruit" (Amos and Revelation) and have your SECOND INCARNATION as soothsayers with instrumental accompanied with the Levites and sorcerers with instrumental accompaniment in Revelation 18.

In universal history proving that one is "Drunk, perverted or just having fun."

"Ancient literature from Babylonian tablets and beyond agree with Johannes Quasten. In Music and Worship in Pagan and Christian Antiquity, beginning on page 41 He uses many of the church Fathers and Classical resources we also rely upon:

"Philodemus considered it paradoxical that music should be regarded as veneration of the gods while musicians were paid for performing this so-called veneration. Again, Philodemus held as self deceptive the view that music mediated religious ecstasy. He saw the entire condition induced by the noise of cymbals and tambourines as a disturbance of the spirit.

He found it significant that, on the whole, only women and effeminate men fell into this folly.

Accordingly, nothing of value could be attributed to music; it was no more than a slave of the sensation of pleasure, which satisfied much in the same way that food and drink did.


"Now, many a man from the false religions, which are not ashamed of criticising what is noble, will ask: how can there be a feast without carousing and overeating, without the pleasant company of hosts and guests, without quantities of unmixed wine, without richly set tables and highly stacked provisions of everything that pertains to a banquet, without pageantry and jokes,

bantering and merry-making to the accompaniment of flutes and citharas, the sound of drums and cymbals and other effeminate and frivolous music of every king,

enkindling unbridled lusts with the help of the sense of hearing. For in and through the same [pleasures] those persons openly seek their joy, for what true joy is their they do not know.


All of the MARKS of the Levites under the King and Commanders of the army were effeminate or perverted. The music signaled the well-known marker: "We will Rob you, Rape you and Rapture you." Sodomy was the mark of the dominant male even if he was a catamite or dog EXCLUDED from worship by Paul in Philippians 3.

"Before the establishment of the kingdom under Saul, it was the women who, as in every young civilization, played a major part in the performance of music. Such figures as Miriam, Deborah, Jephthah's daughter, and the women hailing the young hero David have become almost archetypes of female musicians.

"Characteristic of all these cases is the familiar picture of a female chorus, dancing and singing, accompanied by frenzied drum-beating.

This is the scene known to the entire Near East, and not
"even the severe rule of Islam could wholly suppress this age-old practice." (Int Dict of the Bible, Music, p. 457).


http://www.piney.com/MuIslam.html

With ZERO authority for music connected to spiritual worship in the whole Bible and most of recorded history, it IS something of Biblical Proportions that so many people have taken the MARK which cannot be rubbed off.

I feel certain that the elect who could not be sorcerized or bewitched by music (brought by Lucifer) will easily fit on an old Joy Bus.






 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.10.7

Re: Repent!!

September 14 2011, 8:11 PM 

Just go ahead and repent, Dave. It's hypocrisy for you to point your finger at others when YOU know YOU are in dire need of repentance for lying about Donnie and for clearly implying that people can go over God's head with IM.

Repent, Dave, Repent!

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Lies to Cover Lies

September 14 2011, 7:56 PM 

William, you are a liar covering a liar, and I have proven that also. You have never made much good sense, but now you are just presenting jibberish. Moreover, this sit is a den of iniquity, and you are one of satan's pawns.
The Lord will have his day with those like you who continue to TRY and ridicule the church. Go after Madison and the other Lords' churches, but know that the Lord will be against you. Again, you can't win.


 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Den of Iniquity

September 14 2011, 8:21 PM 

The fact being, if I don't care to use instruments of music in the worship assembly, then Donnie had to lie. I wasn't personally giving my support to the use of piano in the assembly but just merely saying that the piano can (for those who PREFER it) aid/enhance the singing.
Bottom lie.....Donnie lied, and William tried (to no avail) cover it with another lie.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.10.7

Repent!

September 14 2011, 8:41 PM 

Dave, repenting and clearing your guilty conscience will help purge you of your persistent anger and hostility. Holding anger and hate will only eat you alive. Therefore, repent, repent, repent, repent. Your life will be much happier, and you can move on.

Repent, Dave, Repent!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
207.65.198.84

Worship Service

September 14 2011, 8:45 PM 

"Worship" is derived from Orpheus that "thracian" and is therefore "Threskia." This IMPURE religion looked about like the modern progressive "institutes" which I assure you have no DNA connection to what is called the Ekklesia or Synagogue. Now, if you want a worship team to accompany you when you appear before the Planning Commission then musicating would be just the thing for you and you would be cast out like Jesus cast out the musical ministrels--meaning "like dung."

The Antithesis religion is:

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Now, lets someone find us a command, example or remote inference that Jesus commanded or anyone in the Bible commanded us to attend a WORSHIP SERVICE.

NOW, people with strong delusions just HALUCIANTE and FABRICATE just about anything to make certain that the NEVER-COMMANDED collection plate fill up faster to keep them from having to get an honest job like Paul and as he commanded Timothy.

Please don't go wimpy burger on me: collect all of the widow riders together and find us anything about a WORSHIP SERVICE.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

September 15 2011, 12:07 AM 

Source: WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEK--The Timeline (Part XI)

Author: Servant (no login) 69.59.78.95
Subject: Re: Instruments Listed in Psalm 150 January 30 2007, 8:38 PM
". . . Have you never heard a piano softly in the background that only enhances the voice? Not overpowering? When a piano is in tune and a musician that knows how to play it, it actually DOES keep better order than the voice alone. A piano keeps the vocalist/group in pitch and in tempo better than vocal only. ..." [emphases mine, d.c.]



 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.179.63.178

Re: Not Lost But Found: "Soft Piano Enhances"

September 15 2011, 1:08 AM 

Oh my! Dave's goose has been (re)cooked!

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.78.113

Nice Try Boys

September 15 2011, 7:06 AM 

The fact being, if I don't care to use instruments of music in the worship assembly, then Donnie had to lie. I wasn't personally giving my support to the use of piano in the assembly but just merely saying that the piano can (for those who PREFER it) aid/enhance the singing.
Bottom lie.....Donnie lied, and William tried (to no avail) cover it with another lie.

======================

Part of the above message (which the author is repeating from an earlier post) is not publishing-worthy. It is malicious and has no spiritually-redeeming value. Just know the source or from whence it cometh.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Sep 15, 2011 11:04 PM


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.23.40

Re: Nice Try Boys

September 16 2011, 12:01 AM 

It's rather interesting that Dave keeps saying, "You can't win! You can't win!" Evidently Dave fantasizes that someday he will bring about the downfall of this site single-handedly and forever be praised as the "conquering hero" in the struggling camps of the change agents. That's quite a bunch of hysterical baloney for a man whose only "activity" on this site has been to hurl insults, jump up and down, and throw sand in the air. wink.gif

 
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R*
(no login)
98.81.63.109

Re: Nice Try Boys

September 16 2011, 1:44 PM 

Dr. Crump, your recent rants and raves only confirm what we already knew about you. [linked image]

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Nice Try Boys

September 17 2011, 1:55 PM 

OK, your request for approval has been granted.

So, who else rants and raves? Let's be fair.

Just consider the title of Dave's post. What does that really prove other than his condescending attitude and conduct unbecoming of a Christian?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
98.87.21.110

Re: Nice Try Boys

September 17 2011, 2:54 PM 

The only person I see ranting and raving around here is Dave with his: "Cease and desist! You can't win! You're a liar! You are cursed! You are a sinner! You are wrong! Repent! Repent!" I don't think those sentiments are parts of any lullaby. Then we have Dave's "yes" man, R*, the man with a sack of cartoons who seems to take mild offense at anyone who opposes Dave. Well, they're just the typical birds of a feather; nothing new about that. wink.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
64.234.85.24

Cease and Desist!

September 15 2011, 8:26 PM 

Cease and Desist!

==========================

Where's the "beef"?


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Sep 17, 2011 2:00 PM


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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