Holy Spirit: Wayne JacksonAugust 1 2010 at 12:12 AM
|Ken Sublett (Login Ken.Sublett)|
from IP address 18.104.22.168
Question: If we are saved and have a relationship with God then we are connected with God through His Spirit. Think, if you can blaspheme God and Christ and be forgiven but you cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit and be forgiven, then the Spirit of God has to be a Person
That's not exactly what Jesus said.
Mark 3:22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said,
......He hath Beelzebub, and
......by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
They say that the spirit IN Jesus was the Devil.
Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you,
......All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men,
......and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
Mark 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost
......hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Now look closely: Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was saying that the Spirit in Jesus was an UNCLEAN spirit.
Mark 3:30 Because they said, HE hath an UNclean spirit.
Instead, the Spirit that Jesus had was A HOLY Spirit perfectly clean.
Now, look at the supporting evidence.
James 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
James 2:7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
The Spirit OF Christ is the Advocate or Comforter.
1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
......And if any man sin,
......we have an advocate (Comforter) with the Father,
......Jesus Christ the righteous:
So, what about saying that THE Spirit which was IN Jesus Christ as a clean or HOLY Spirit was NOT His at all? Can people believe that the spirit that Jesus HATH was a HE and another person standing outside of Jesus? That leaves Jesus without His own Spirit or Mind as Paul draws the parallel in 1 Corinthians 2.
|This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 22.214.171.124 on Mar 2, 2015 12:29 PM|
|August 3 2010, 9:52 AM |
You weren't really expecting to get a response, were you?
Certainly hope not.....
No response to a great question?
|August 3 2010, 10:38 AM |
Does "no response" mean "don't know" or "not sure"?
Do you remember the thread "Nice Song" and the discussion about the very popular hymn "Holy, Holy, Holy"? It has been brought to our attention that in various hymnbooks used in churches of Christ, the line "God in three Persons, blessed Trinity" [1826 version] does not exist. Instead, it says "God over all, and blest eternally."
Check it out, Dave.
|September 17 2010, 6:06 PM |
Where is your source?
According to hymnology, Reginald Heber wrote the lyrics for Trinity Sunday. The orignal title when published by his widow in 1827 was "Trinity Hymn." The orignal words did end with "Blessed Trinity." It was the Unitarians who later tried to change the hymn
Wrong as usual.
I have no intention, by the way, of ever returning here. You do not serve God with this website, and He is certainly not glorified by you.
This site, as well as any I have ever seen, fits perfectly Paul's warning to the Romans:
"since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know Gods decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them."
|September 17 2010, 7:34 PM |
Too bad, I hoped you were serious and would correct where you think I am wrong.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Sorry Ken
|August 3 2010, 10:46 AM |
Instead of hanging around this site persistently ragging and berating Ken, Dave could make better use of his time if he volunteered at a soup kitchen. And if he already volunteers at such an establishment, he isn't spending enough time there.
Testy, Aren't We?
|August 3 2010, 4:33 PM |
Bad day, William?
There is an answer for all your problems.
Give it all to God and His Son.
He takes away the mean spirit.
Ah ... the mean or unholy spirit OF man vs. that OF Christ
|August 3 2010, 6:09 PM |
"the unholy spirit of man" VERSUS "the holy spirit of Christ"
Sometimes some good comes out of your thinking.
For example, you just mentioned the "mean spirit" OF man. That expression is very useful -- "the spirit OF man" versus "the spirit OF Christ."
Now if we append to either expression or precede it with an adjective, e.g., "beautiful" or "mean" or "holy" or "unholy" (and in our case, use the adjective "holy" or "unholy"), we can actually start a worthwhile discussion by comparing:
Is the "spirit" of man a separate PERSON from man?
Is the "spirit" of Christ or God a separate PERSON?
That comparison would make a good start of a discussion. And that's just dealing with the "adjective." Wait when we deal with the "preposition." The preposition "OF" as in "the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ" (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11; Philippians 1:19).
|August 4 2010, 9:29 AM |
When someone like you wants to complicate God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, I always apply the following Scriptures.....
13 Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
Now Donnie......see how simple it is?
Alexander Campbell, etal, Gift of A holy spirit (ours)
|August 4 2010, 9:40 AM |
Alexander Campbell and others understand that A holy spirit is OUR unholy spirit which has been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ and not His "spirit."
This is...understood by every attentive reader. The original phrase is hagiasmos pneumatos, and is found only in II. Thess. ii. 13; I. Pet. i. 2. In both places it appears to refer to the sanctification of the spirit of believers. It is literally rendered "sanctification [or holiness] of spirit." There is no article in the original and no epithet that suggests the Holy Spirit in either passage.
....God has chosen men to salvation through (or by) holiness of spirit;
........not through the holiness of his Spirit,
........but through the holiness of their spirit.
.... When Jesus prayed (John xvii.) for the sanctification or holiness of his disciples,
........it was through the truth: "Sanctify them through the truth;
........thy word is truth."
.... The belief of the truth is, therefore, by Paul associated with this holiness or sanctification of spirit.
The Spirit of God is frequently denominated in these days, "the Sanctifier." Let it be granted that it is the Spirit that sanctifies or sets apart men to God, still it must be argued from the Record that he sanctifies them only through the truth or gospel believed.
.... A sanctified unbeliever is inconceivable;
....and, as "without holiness [or sanctification of spirit] no man can see the Lord;
.... so, without faith, there can be no holiness, and no action acceptable to God.
All persons sanctified to God to any high office or function, were anointed, and thus consecrated to his special service. So all Christians, being priests,
....are anointed or sanctified by the Holy Spirit
.... through the obedience of the truth,
....and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus,
....cleansing THEIR consciences from dead works to serve the living God.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Testy, Aren't We?
|August 4 2010, 12:38 PM |
Oh, I'd say that Dave must be having troubles if all he can do is hang around this site ragging and berating Ken. Yes, Dave should give his troubles over to God. In so doing, Dave could eventually lose his mean-spiritedness and discover more worthwhile pursuits in his life.
'Three Persons' is too complicated
|August 4 2010, 1:15 PM |
God's nature is complicated enough. But when you suggest that "spirit" means "person," you further complicate the nature of God. A "spirit" is never a person.
The spirit OF the Father (Matt. 10:20) or the spirit OF Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:19) is NOT a person.
There is not a PERSONal relationship between "the spirit of the Father" and "the Father." That is impossible.
There is not a PERSONal relationship between "the spirit of Jesus Christ" and "Jesus Christ." That is impossible.
All throughout John chapters 14-15 and other supporting passages, communication is evident only between the Father and Jesus Christ. Just note a couple of declaratives which support such a relationship: (1) "I and my Father are one" [John 10:30]; (2) "He that hateth me hateth my Father also" [John 15:23].
If you consider "the spirit" as a PERSON every time there is reference to it in the Holy Scripture, you will end up with a psychiatric evaluation of God as being schizophrenic:
-- the spirit OF God
-- the spirit OF the Lord
-- the spirit OF the Father
-- the spirit OF truth
-- the spirit OF Christ
-- the spirit OF Jesus Christ
-- the spirit OF our God
-- the spirit OF His Son (Gal. 4:6)
-- spirit OF the living God (II Cor. 3:3)
Some People Can Foul Up a Glass of Water
|August 5 2010, 12:09 AM |
6 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is, My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Donnie, who was Jesus crying out to?
Yes, William Crump, I am indeed ignoring you. You act like a child and you get treated like one.
When 'Someone' Is Missing in the Communication
|August 5 2010, 4:40 PM |
First, I think you're getting to be famous for dealing with personalities and individual differences as usual in the midst of a discussion. Are you a practicing psychiatrist?
Now, your question: To whom was Jesus crying?
Well, I have already answered that question by referring you to John chapters 14-16 and other supporting passages. I have clearly emphasized the relationship and communication between the Father and Jesus Christ His Son. Evidently you missed the point -- What happened to or where was the Spirit [that you consider or say or believe as a PERSON] in that relationship or communication?
By the way yours is a very good question for it simply adds to the veracity of the statement that there was NOT a "Spirit PERSON" in the Father-and-Son relationship or communication.
I think you would prefer that the passages stated something as to include the Spirit in the text. (I have italicized and bracketed what the man-invented Trinity believers would like the few following passage to state.)
Matt. 10:32,33 -- "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven [and the holy Spirit also]. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven [and the holy Spirit also]."
Luke 10:21,22 -- "In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father [and the holy Spirit also]; and who the Father is [and who the Spirit is aslo], but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him."
John 15:23 -- "He that hateth me hateth my Father [and the holy Spirit] also."
And there are numerous other passages in the Holy Scripture that reveal the Father-and-Son relationship and communication.
Dave, the Only One Who Wants to Deal WIth You Boys
|August 6 2010, 8:20 PM |
Donnie, as always, give an unwise man enough rope and he will hang himself. I am not sure where your meanderings come from about me "dealing with personalities...and being.....a psychiatrist," other than it just being the same Donnie that always wants to sidetrack and hijack the Truth. Nothing new under the sun.
After your ranting about me, you gave up the Truth without even knowing it. Your last sentence....."And there are numerous other passages in the Holy Scripture that reveal the Father-and-Son relationship and communication."
Three, yet one. Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus did NOT cry unto himself before he died on the cross. He cried unto God, His Father.
Ken Sublett, your only intelligent sentence was.....
"As Donnie as pointed out:"
Leave it at that Ken. Donnie wants to be the Pope for the church of Christ, believing that he can interpret for the rest of us, but that is still better than you believing in Greek mythology over the Holy Scriptures.
Re: Dave, the Only One Who Wants to Deal WIth You Boys
|August 6 2010, 9:29 PM |
"Yes, William Crump, I am indeed ignoring you. You act like a child and you get treated like one."
"Dave, the Only One Who wants to Deal With You Boys"
A couple of your recent statements, still remember?
"Acting like a child" is a statement of one acting like a psychiatrist.
"To deal with you, Boys" does not belong in an adult religious discussion.
Those remarks exactly "sidetrack and hijack the Truth" [you said that yourself] while we're seeking to know the truth about the Spirit OF (that belongs to) God or Christ.
If you're not satisfied with a few passages that I quoted relating to the relationship between the Father and the Son, I would suggest that you read the entire four gospels. It was a personal expression from Jesus Himself when He said, "I and my Father are one"; etc. It cannot be any clearer than when He said, "I and my Father." That's a message said and heard by the disciples of Christ before His ascension. That's the same message that NT Christians today ought to know and believe and accept. Remember the NUMEROUS instances that you read about in the New Testament. Jesus could have very easily stated in those NUMEROUS instances: "I and my Father and the Holy Spirit [PERSON that the Pope and the Council of Nicea INVENTED] are one. But He DID NOT.
Concerning the Pope: I'm just wanting to learn and understand the truth about what "the Spirit OF Christ" or "the Spirit OF the Lord" as described in the Scripture and what the Spirit means to me in Christian living. No, I have no desire for the Pope's throne. You, on the other hand, don't even attempt to understand the history of the man-invented Trinity doctrine. You're just accepting what the Pope told the world and you without question.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Dave, the Only One Who Wants to Deal WIth You Boys
|August 6 2010, 10:16 PM |
I believe Dave gets upset if anyone refers to him in discussions as "boy" or "son" (at least he did at FaithSite), yet he refers to the posters at CM as "You Boys." So he does to others what he does not want done to him. Fine example.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Some People Can Foul Up a Glass of Water
|August 7 2010, 9:38 AM |
Dave wrote, "Yes, William Crump, I am indeed ignoring you." If Dave truly ignored me, he wouldn't post anything at all. Well, let's see if Dave can ignore this: It is impossible for Dave to ignore me, because I get under his skin with the truth, which irks him and compels him to respond with derogatory comments. In fact, it is typical for Dave to respond with derogatory comments to anyone with whom he disagrees. That's some fine example.
Off topic (sorry)
|August 7 2010, 1:41 PM |
Dr. Crump, you have posted four times on this thread. None of which had anything to do with the subject of this thread. You have only attacked posters.
Dr. Crump, sometimes we (people like you and me) just have to sit QUIETLY on the porch and let the "big dogs" run.
Dr. Crump, Donnie has provided a thread for "smack" talkers like us. You know, the special Vipers Den. Would you join me there for a chat or maybe play some games?
One God the Father. One Son Jesus of Nazareth.
|August 5 2010, 7:45 PM |
As Donnie as pointed out: There is ONE God the Father in relationship to One Son Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the SON of God when He personifies and articulates the Inaudible Spirit Being.
When the ONE Spirit Being "thinks," He "breathes" and His WORDS are His Son:
.....So it is defined by the inventers of the word "trias."
There are TWO ACTORS as we have said and said
ONE and only One Spirit Deity
.....One Wind or Breath carrying holy information.
One human being both visible and audible.
Psa. 33:4 For the  word of the LORD is right; and all his  works are done in truth.
Psa. 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.
Psa. 33:6 By the  word of the  LORD were the heavens made;
.....and all the host of them by the  breath of his mouth.
Psa. 33:7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together
.....as an heap: [parable]
.....he layeth up the depth in storehouses.
Psa. 33:8 Let all the earth fear the LORD:
.....let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
Psa. 33:9 For HE spake, and it was done;
.....he commanded, and it stood fast
Moses said that God would send a prophet like me
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens:
.....but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord,
.....Sit thou on my right hand,
Acts 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly,
.....hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified,
.....both Lord and Christ.
Denying that God used a fully human Being to be His UNIQUE Son is to minimize the Work of Jesus.
When as SPIRIT He appeared to Paul He said "I am Jesus of Nazareth." He still is and his is the
ONLY Name by which we may be Saved. At the Second Advent it will be the Same Jesus
Whom they saw Go away.