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Scripture
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74.179.45.86

Neuter word pneuma

November 2 2012, 11:18 PM 

The Greek word "pneuma" is neuter, neither masculine nor feminine.

French word for book (livre) is masculine, but we would never refer to a book as "he."

Spanish word for table is the feminine "mesa" but we would never refer to a table as "she."

By the time the King James was translated in 1611 there was a 1000 year tradition that the Spirit was a "he."

Most times KJV translates it "he", but sometimes "it" as "the Spirit itself".

Modern translations, unfortunately, are WORSE in this regard compared to KJV.

This is just another example why critics have no "justice" in bad-mouthing the Churches of Christ.

Go on, people, continue to criticize the Churches of Christ and risk "sinnning against the Holy Spirit."


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.70.191

Re: Neuter word pneuma

November 2 2012, 11:42 PM 

I speak for most if not ALL Churches of Christ before young preachers started listening to professors working really hard to join the tribe of theologians.

I even speak for Augustine, like the original Nicean Creed, never spoke of the Spirit as a person or a member of the Godhead.

Therefore, the Spirit is personified with the use of personal pronouns but not because He is a Person separated from full Deity. Rather, as my spirit groans within me and argues with me (Roman 7, Romans 8), God's invisible Spirit is personified because it belongs to Him. Furthermore, this is a common way of "humanizing" even inanimate objects:

Paul Tillich wrote:

"The Spirit is sometimes personified in the Bible, as in John 16:7-8, and this has led many to believe that it is a person. They do so because they do not take into account an idiom of the original Greek language. In Greek, inanimate objects which in English would be couched in the neuter gender, are given a masculine or feminine gender, if those objects are identified with any particular individual. ' For example, a chair is described as "it" in English, because it is neuter, being neither masculine nor feminine. But in Greek that chair can be identified with its owner. If it belongs to me, the chair is described as he; if it belongs to my wife, as she.


A common book on hermeneutics in churches of Christ writes:

"For this reason, the Holy Spirit has frequently been personified in Scripture, identifying it with God, and so it is personified as he.

"However, if the Holy Spirit were actually a person it should be rendered as he in every place where the word is referred to; but it is not. It is sometimes rendered in the neuter. In Romans 8:16, Paul writes: "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit." The neuter, itself is used, and this is in accord with the Greek text, as any Greek scholar will acknowledge.

"To personify inanimate objects is normal in Scripture. Wisdom is represented as a woman (Proverbs 9:1), mammon is described as a friend (Luke 16:9), sin is personified as a slave-owner (Romans 6:16), the Holy Spirit as a comforter (John 14:26), expressing the spirit of Truth. So Micah declared: "I am full of power by the spirit of the Lord" (Micah 3:8). The prophets were moved by the spirit to record the Scriptures (Nehemiah 9:20; 2 Peter 1:21), and God used the same means to speak to Israel through His Son (Hebrews 1: 1). For the rest of the quote Click Here.

"Personification.-- This is a figure of speech by which inanimate beings are spoken of as animated, or endowed with life and volition; animals are endowed with feelings akin to those of men.

"This is well suited to an imaginary condition of mind, and therefore frequently employed in Hebrew Scriptures. Indeed, it is now a staple in the market of communication, and we use it so commonly ourselves that whe have almost ceasted to speak of it as a figure of speech." (Prof. D. R. Dungan, Hermeneutics, p. 324, Gospel Light Publishing)


> "For God is rational (spiritual), and Reason was first in Him; and so all things were from Himself. This Reason is His own Thought (or Consciousness) which the Greeks call logos, by which term we also designate Word or Discourse and therefore it is now usual with our people, owing to the mere simple interpretation of the term, to say that the Word was in the beginning with God; although it would be more suitable to regard Reason as the more ancient; because God had not Word from the beginning, but He had Reason even before the beginning; because also Word itself consists of Reason, which it thus proves to have been the prior existence as being its own substance.... He became also the Son of God, and was begotten when He proceeded forth from Him (Tertullian from chs. 5,7).

http://www.piney.com/HsBsAcWs.html

> "Again--Some will say, What does the expression Holy Spirit mean?

Well, in scripture it stands first for God the Holy Spirit,

and secondly for the holy mind or spirit of a believer-

-for illustration, take Peter's words to Ananias, "Why has Satan tempted you to lie to the Holy Spirit; you have not lied to men, but to God," (the Holy Spirit.) And the Saviour says, How much more will your heavenly Father give a holy spirit (as it should be translated) to those that ask him. Again--Praying in a holy spirit. Again--Paul says he approved himself God's servant "by knowledge, by long sufferings, by kindness, by a holy spirit'" by a mind innocent of the love of gain, or commerce, or sensuality. Walter Scott Early Restoration Movement leader.

 
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74.179.45.86

Lyrics sung in Church

November 3 2012, 12:35 AM 

Below is a version of the song that many are repeating regularly at the "innovative" churches.
Why would God ever want to "take not thy Holy Spirit from me"????
Or "I'll never do anything without your leading Spirit, Lord".
"Holy Ghost, fall down on me."
This is pure Pentecostal.
Now read:


Lyrics to Holy Ghost :

[Chorus:]
Holy Ghost fall down on me
Let your spirit fall down on me [x2]

[Verse 1:]
Create in me a new heart oh God
And renew a right spirit within me
Cast me not away from thy presence oh God
Take not thy Holy Spirit from me

[Chorus]

[Verse 2:]
Holy Spirit help me to walk right
Talk right, live right
Help me to be right
I'll never do anything without
Your leading spirit, Holy Spirit

[Bridge:]
Cast me not from thy presence oh Lord
Take not your spirit
Take not your spirit from me [x3]
Holy Ghost fall down Lord fall on me
Holy ghost fall down Lord fall on me...

[Vamp:]
Me
I need you to fall fresh on me
Send a fresh wind
Let it fall on me
I need you to fall on me
A fresh wind, a new touch
Oh, I need you to reign down your presence on me
Oh, me I need a touch from Thee
Fall fresh on me
Drench me in your Spirit Oh...

[ These are Holy Ghost Lyrics onhttp://www.lyricsmania.com/ ]

 
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98.87.119.133

Culture and Church Descending Downward

November 3 2012, 9:56 AM 

The songs in the innovative churches provide a clue to what is going on.

There is a clear preference for a foreordained "sovereignty" of God. This is the opposite of free will, which is in the traditional stance of Churches of Christ (also of Christian Churches and Disciples of Christ)--I speak broadly.

The idea of grace is especially important to the "sovereignty" innovators since it fits right in, with the Holy Spirit "falling down" and giving grace, without man or woman having to do a "whisper."
Jimmy Swaggart says it best for these "disciples" when he told the story of a derelict man who was driving down the highway and ran into a strong wall. His father, who was a religious man, worried about the soul of his son, until the night he dreamed that he saw his son in heaven. The son said in this dream "Daddy, when I realized in that last split second before I did, I prayed, "Jesus Christ, I believe in you. Save me." This is typical death bed repentance, and although I don't want to mock these people, this removes any responsibility for living a high-performance Christian life.

The statement from Christ's Sermon on the Mount is not "where your heart is there will be your treasure also" but "where your treasure is there will be your heart also." Good works are an assurance that our faith is genuine. Fear of death does not constitute the type of saving faith of which James speaks.

I think that we have to bring in the view of elders again, who in "overseeing" the local congregation, they are beset by a number of strains of thought, and are beyond their "pay grade" in a way, with numerous ideas coming their way, and with stresses between elders, and genuine disagreement within, the carriers of modification have a free shot at the "old traditions."

This places additional stresses on the preacher, who is made dizzy by the events taking place about him. Some preachers are driven by desire of having a "mega-church" and so want to be popular in the community; other preachers would like to maintain the basic old doctrines; others are just arms for the church programs. All in all, we are convinced that the Scriptures themselves are placed on the back burner, and the uniqueness of the Churches of Christ in history begins to be lost. The church then becomes like the "nations about them." Little influence then emanates from the church to the larger society, and eventually the Churches of Christ walk in lock-step with the decaying culture.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.73.49

Re: Culture and Church Descending Downward

November 3 2012, 11:01 AM 

You are correct: there is no "Sovereign" concept in the Bible. It is a fact that God's will WILL be carried out. Sovereign means that God HAS free will whereas if God randomly picked some to heaven and some to hell from eternity past, then the Calvinist (LU) insist that God CANNOT change His Mind.

turannos
I. an absolute sovereign , unlimited by law or constitution,
2. in a wider sense, the tyrant's son, or any member of his family, Soph.:--so, hĂȘ turannos was both the queen herself or a princess,
II. turannos, on, as adj. kingly, royal, Trag.
2. imperious, despotic, Thuc.; turanna


They are always so cock sure that THEY are the "chosen" ones:

The Jews thought that they were predestined: Paul in Romans 10 and 1 Cor 10 gives the example of the musical idolatry at Mount Sinai as PROOF of their folly:

1Corinthians 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Corinthians 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
1Corinthians 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
1Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [Musical idolatry of the Egyptian triad represented by the golden calveS

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

1Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: [PATTERN] and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Corinthians
10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So instrumental music, women worship leaders and a sense of PREDESTINATION is the MARK that they are NOT chosen to be saved.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 174.228.73.49 on Nov 3, 2012 11:11 AM


 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.228.73.49

Re: Lyrics sung in Church

November 3 2012, 1:03 PM 

I am certain that these people have never been disciples of Psalm 51

Cast me not from thy presence oh Lord
Take not your spirit
Take not your spirit from me [x3]
Holy Ghost fall down Lord fall on me
Holy ghost fall down Lord fall on me...


David was not a wimpy-singy-fella:

Psa 51:1 HAVE mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness:according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out MINE transgressions.

Psa 51:2Wash me throughly from MINE iniquity, and cleanse me from MY sin.
Psa 51:3 For I acknowledge MY transgressions: and MY sin is ever before me.

David "judged" God's RIGHT to punish:

Psa 51:4 Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight:
.....that thou mightest be justified [MORALLY RIGHT] when thou speakest,
.....and be clear when thou judgest [PUNISH]. Psa 51:4

Psa 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, [purify]
.....and I shall be clean:
.....wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Heb. 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,
.....having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience,
.....and our bodies washed with pure water.


AFTER Confession and Washing from his UNHOLY SPIRIT David would have a clean heart, a right spirit, A holy spirit and a free spirit. If God removed HIS Spirit then David would be dead. David says nothing about a "spirit person" falling on him: that would sound a little gender confused.

We are baptized FOR the remission of sins from OUR Spirit: therefore the Gift is that we now have "A" holy spirit.

 
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Scripture
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98.87.122.116

Melodies

November 4 2012, 2:15 PM 

Have you ever noticed that the melodies of these new songs are such that it is difficult to carry a tune.

Striking is that "you", "your", "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" and such words referring to the divine are a few notes higher than the words around them.

Also "me", "my", "our", and "I" are a few notes lower than the notes around them.

Am I just imagining this?

What is the explanation, if this is the case?

Could it be that the writers are suggesting that Christians are but "dirty rags."

Or that God has a condescending view of humanity? Does he? That he really despises them?

Is there a theological bias in the melody as well as in the words of the songs?

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.146.234

Re: Melodies

November 4 2012, 2:32 PM 

That's one for B or Donnie:

It may be that the new theology is based on the irrational: doesn't need to make sense.

Or it may be because they are often written by giddy, girlish males and just blurt out their aspirations to make love to God (Jeff walling Daring to Dance with God.)

Or it may be a proof of Strong Delusions inflicted by God on those who do not love the truth.

Or it may be because within their merry brotherhood, they know that anything they sing in Jazzy (that f word) will be licked up by their groupies. The New Wineskins concept worships Dionysus, Bacchus etal and maybe they have been initiated into the "gay brotherhood" and have become the perfected and we mortals just are not supposed to know the secrets of the mysteries. Mysteries is from music which always meant to "make the lambs dumb before the slaughter." When Jesus called the MEN just children piping wanting everyone to lament or sing and dance, this was a repudiation of those men clustering around hoping John wore SOFT clothing.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.146.234

Psalm 51 Part B

November 4 2012, 2:37 PM 

The BOOK of Psalms contains several forms of literature: Psalm 51 seems prophetic and the "spirit" they want on top is NOT A god person such as sophia (MOTHER of Zoe).

Psalm 51 obliterated by making it into a silly song affirms what we have said that at baptism God gives us the gift of A holy spirit or REgenerates our UNholy spirit.

[linked image]

 
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Anonymous
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Re: Wayne Jackson Holy Spirit. Psalm 51 proves that it is OUR spirit needing sanctification

November 5 2012, 9:35 AM 

Acts 7
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.252.153.177

Re: Wayne Jackson Holy Spirit. Psalm 51 proves that it is OUR spirit needing sanctification

November 5 2012, 4:30 PM 

Resisting the Spirit is resisting the Word of God given by the Spirit OF Christ through the prophets.

[linked image]

 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.147.14

Response to Trinity Passages Part C

November 5 2012, 7:16 PM 

[linked image]

 
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Donnie
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ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Looking for a Reference in the Old Testament

November 12 2012, 5:42 PM 

If the Holy Spirit has been God, or the third person in the Trinity Dogma, from the beginning, can someone quote me a single passage from the Old Testament that even hints that this man-made doctrine is true?

The only references in the Old Testament [KJV] to the "holy spirit" are found in:


  • Psalm 51:[11] Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

  • Isaiah 63:[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.

  • Isaiah 63:[11] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

These Old Testament passages, just as passages in the New Testament do, clearly indicate the ownership [possession or "belonging to"] of an entity. The spirit which is holy is an entity or attribute that belongs to someone -- in this case: God or the Lord.

The spirit of man may be holy or unholy.

But the spirit of the Lord our God is always HOLY, pure and blameless and sinless.

Here's logic: The nose OF Donnie is NOT Donnie -- it is Donnie's nose.

Here's logic: The spirit OF the Lord God is NOT God -- it is God's spirit; His "spirit" which is "HOLY" belongs to HIM.

Consider that the word "spirit" is not a proper noun. Its gender is neuter. The "spirit" of God has manifested itself throughout times in various ways and means -- wind, breath, power, mind.

Oh, just happened to think of other passages in the Old Testament.


  • Gen. 2:[7]And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

  • Gen. 7:[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

  • Exod. 15:[8] And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea.

  • Job 27:[3] All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.

 
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Rocky
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98.81.113.233

Different View of Holy Spirit

December 15 2012, 10:14 AM 

She Proclaims The Truth About The Holy Spirit In The Life Of The Christian
by John Waddey



TheBible.net
Introducing the Church Index
Next Chapter


Few topics have received such attention in our generation as that of the Holy Spirit and the Christian. Much of the teaching heard lays heavy stress upon a direct operation of the Spirit on the heart of alien sinners to bring them to salvation, and supernatural enlightenment and guidance for Christians. We will examine these points in light of God's Word and see what is actually promised.

The Holy Spirit is a divine person, a member of the holy godhead. It is erroneous to think of him as merely a power, influence or feeling. Masculine pronouns are applied to the Spirit (John 14:26). Attributes of personhood are given him. He speaks (Revelation 2:29); he leads (Romans 8:14); he forbids (Acts 16:6). The Holy Spirit plays a vital role in our salvation. We are baptized into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19). He is the seal of our salvation and the "earnest of our inheritance" (Ephesians 1:13-14).


TO WHOM IS THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVEN?

Contrary to popular opinion, God's Spirit is not given to alien sinners to convert them. "Because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts" (Galatians 4:6).

The Spirit through the inspired Scripture works on the minds and hearts of sinners, convicting them (John 16:8; 1 Peter 1:23). When the sinner believes the gospel message, repents and is baptized, he receives remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). Thus the Spirit comes, not to make us sons, but because we have become Sons of God. God's Spirit is only given to those who in faith obey Christ.

"We. . . receive the promise of the Spirit through faith" (Gal. 3:14). Jesus said "He that believeth on me. . . from within him shall flow rivers of living water. But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believed on him were to receive. . . " (John 7:38-39). Peter tells us of "the Holy Spirit whom God hath given to them that obey him" (Acts 5:32). Jesus said, "how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13). The context makes clear that he gives this gift to his children!

We should be reminded that Scripture speaks of a baptism of the Holy Spirit which only the apostles and Cornelius received (Acts 1:5; Acts 11:15-17) and the miraculous gifts of the Spirit given by the hands of the apostles (Acts 8:12-18). (Only the apostles could pass that gifts along to others, the recipients could not.) There also is a general gift or indwelling of the Spirit which all receive at baptism. This is non-miraculous (Acts 2:38). Holy Spirit baptism was promised to the apostles, but never commanded of disciples. Only two cases of it are recorded at the first reception of Jews and Gentiles into Christ's kingdom. Both cases involved open displays of supernatural power (see Acts 2:1-13 and 10:44-48). Today there is but one baptism (Eph. 4:5). This baptism of the Great Commission is in water (Acts 8:37-38).


OBLIGATIONS IMPOSED

It is a remarkable privilege to receive God's Spirit in our lives. Such carries with it heavy responsibilities. "Know ye not that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own;. . . glorify God in your body" (1 Cor. 6:19-20). "If any man destroyeth the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, and such are you" (1 Cor. 3:17). Thus any habit or practice that would defile our body and soul must be cast aside, be it fornication, drug abuse, indulgence in intoxicating beverages, gluttony, tobacco or any like thing.

We must "walk by the Spirit, and. . . not fulfill the lust of the flesh" (Gal. 5:16). By that, Paul means to order our lives by the Spirit's instructions found in the Scripture. "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, (makes) me free from the law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2). "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God" (Rom 8:14). The Holy Spirit has given us the Bible to guide our path (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Christians must put away all things in their lives that would grieve the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:25). In Ephesians 4:17-5:14 the apostle catalogs that ugly list of sins we must put away if we would please our heavenly guest. At the same time we must fill the vacuum in our lives by bringing forth the fruit of the Spirit: "love, joy, peace, long- suffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control. . . " (Gal. 5:22-23).


BLESSINGS THE SPIRIT IMPARTS

Although no miraculous power or leading is promised to us today, the blessings bestowed by the indwelling Spirit are manifold. When at our baptism we receive the gift of the Spirit (Acts 2:38) it is likened to God's seal or stamp of approval or ownership (2 Cor. 1:22). His presence in our life is the earnest or assurance of our ultimate reward in heaven (Eph. 1:13-14). Our possession of the Spirit is an assurance of our sonship: "hereby we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit" (1 John 4:14). "The love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us" (Rom. 5:5). We "abound in hope, in the power of the Holy spirit" (Rom. 15:13). Christians are "strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man" (Eph. 3:16). "And in like manner the Spirit helpeth our infirmity" (Rom. 8:26a). When we do not know how to pray as we ought, "the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us. . . according to the will of God" (Rom. 8:26-27). Paul urges us to pray "at all seasons in the Spirit" (Eph. 6:18). By the Spirit (we) "put to death the deeds of the body" (Rom. 8:13); thus we find help to overcome those powerful habits of sin which have attached themselves to us. When we walk in the fear of the Lord we enjoy "the comfort of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 9:31). The Holy Spirit leads the Christian in paths of righteousness. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God" (Rom. 8:14).

Many claim the Spirit whispers words in their ear or overpowers their mind, but such is not Biblical. The Holy Spirit leads us through the instruction of the Scripture he caused to be written. Scripture came as "men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Pet. 1:21). In Ephesians 5:19 Paul instructs us to be filled with the Spirit and sing. In Colossians 3:16 he says "Let the words of Christ dwell in you richly" and sing. Thus with David we pray "Show me thy ways, O Jehovah; teach me thy paths, Guide me in thy truth and teach me. . ." (Psalm 25:5). Truly Scripture "is a lamp unto my feet, and light unto my path" (Ps. 119:105). It is the medium by which God's Spirit leads us. Led by the Spirit we enjoy "the communion of the Holy Spirit" (2 Cor. 13:14) and the. . . "fellowship of the Spirit" (Philippians 2:1). In a similar way "the Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God" (Rom. 8:16). In his word, the Spirit has told us the conditions of salvation; i.e., faith (Hebrews 11:6), repentance (Acts 17:30), immersion (Mark 16:16). When our spirit can truthfully say, I have met these terms" then the Spirit's Word says "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mk. 16:16).


EVIDENCE OF THE INDWELLING SPIRIT

Those who have God's Spirit in their hearts will reflect it in their attitude and con- duct. They will love the Bible which the Spirit caused to be written. "I have longed after thy precepts" (Ps. 119:40). "I love thy precepts" (Ps. 119:159). Sinners receive "not the love of the truth that they might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2: 10). Spirit filled men will confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:2). They will be led by the Spirit's word (Rom. 8:14) and mind "the things of the Spirit" (Rom. 8:5). With the Spirit's help they will be mortifying the sinful desires and practices of the old life (Rom. 8:13). In their lives will be seen "the fruit of the Spirit. . . love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, meekness, self-control. . ." (Gal. 5:22-23).


THE HOLY SPIRIT AND SALVATION

The implanted word of God which the Spirit inspired is able to save our souls (James 1:21). In every case of conversion recorded in the Acts of Apostles, souls were saved only after hearing the word of God taught and obeying the divine will (Compare Acts 2:1-47). The Lord today will open your heart even as he did Lydia's by the preaching of the gospel (Acts 16:11-15). He will remove your sins even as he did Saul of Tarsus' when you respond by being baptized (Acts 22:16).

Without God's Spirit, you cannot be saved (Rom. 8:9). It is impossible to receive the Spirit apart from Christian baptism (John 3:5). We urge you today to let Christ save you "through the washing of regeneration (baptism) and the renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). In so doing you will find "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Rom. 14:17).


QUESTIONS

How do we conclude that the Holy Spirit is a person?

To whom is the Holy Spirit given?

In Scripture, who received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Name three obligations of those who have the Spirit.

Discuss the blessings the Holy Spirit provides Christians today.

What is the evidence of the Spirit dwelling in one's life?



 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.15.123

Re: Different View of Holy Spirit

December 15 2012, 11:29 AM 

We have looked at these proof-texts IN CONTEXT and by defining words. I will take a look at a few. For now, it is a fact that maybe half of church of Christ preachers believe that the Spirit OF (preposition) is another person which they believe is a PERSON.

After the Charismatic movement preachers were led to agree that indeed The Holy Spirit "people" lives inside of my carnal body BUT He don't do nothing, He don't say nothing, He just keeps LOLLOING around.

No one ever said that Waddey was perfect. He follows the UNIVERSAL college-educated or preacher-school PATTERNISM of just collecting all of the verses (as you quote him), pile them into heaps and then reach a conclusion. You have never heard a sermon in context.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.193.15.123 on Dec 15, 2012 12:25 PM


 
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Scripture
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Mr Waddey's Internal Contradiction

December 15 2012, 12:35 PM 

Waddey wrote:

1. "Although no miraculous power or leading is promised to us today, the blessings bestowed by the indwelling Spirit are manifold. When at our baptism we receive the gift of the Spirit (Acts 2:38) it is likened to God's seal or stamp of approval or ownership (2 Cor. 1:22). His presence in our life is the earnest or assurance of our ultimate reward in heaven (Eph. 1:13-14). Our possession of the Spirit is an assurance of our sonship: "hereby we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit" (1 John 4:14). "The love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us" (Rom. 5:5). We "abound in hope, in the power of the Holy spirit" (Rom. 15:13). Christians are "strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man" (Eph. 3:16). "And in like manner the Spirit helpeth our infirmity" (Rom. 8:26a). When we do not know how to pray as we ought, "the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us. . . according to the will of God" (Rom. 8:26-27). Paul urges us to pray "at all seasons in the Spirit" (Eph. 6:18). By the Spirit (we) "put to death the deeds of the body" (Rom. 8:13); thus we find help to overcome those powerful habits of sin which have attached themselves to us. When we walk in the fear of the Lord we enjoy "the comfort of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 9:31). The Holy Spirit leads the Christian in paths of righteousness. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God" (Rom. 8:14)."

2. "Many claim the Spirit whispers words in their ear or overpowers their mind, but such is not Biblical. The Holy Spirit leads us through the instruction of the Scripture he caused to be written. Scripture came as "men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit" (2 Pet. 1:21). In Ephesians 5:19 Paul instructs us to be filled with the Spirit and sing."

I write:

Can Waddey be into the same problem he seems to reject?

Waddey says in paragraph 1 that no miraculous power or leading is promised to us today, but love, hope, knowledge, and prayer are aided by the Spirit. Then he says that the Holy Spirit leads us through the instruction of the Scripture that "he" caused to be written.

Problem: If the Spirit is given to us at baptism, and "he" leads us through Scripture (the word of God), then we could not have heard the word of God up before we are baptized. But according to Waddey, we haven't heard "repent and be baptized" since that is Scripture, and so, according to his argument, the Holy Spirit has not been given to us yet.

On the other hand, if "he" leads through Scripture, and we hear "repent and be baptized", then "he" is leading us before baptism. Waddey is correct in saying that Scripture leads us into the way of the Spirit, but Scripture leads us before baptism toward belief and repentance, and doubly leads us after baptism by the refreshing and reformation that comes through additional devotion and growth through Biblical studies, through fellowship with the saints, and daily meditation and prayer.

A more "holy interpretation" of the whole dilemma is that The Holy Conscience is revealed to us before baptism, and moreso after baptism. It comes to us through faith, its rationale leads us to repentance, it brings us into the water of baptism, and it restores our sole in obedience to the Christian life. Confession is its seal, previous to baptism, and confession strengthens us in the holy conscience the more we resist the temptations of this life.

Can anyone help us here?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.15.123

Re: Mr Waddey's Internal Contradiction

December 15 2012, 12:53 PM 

I believe that is correct. The problem seems to mix up righteousness (ceremonially qualified) and remission of sins or REgeneration.

People misuse Alexander Campbell by proof-texting. Campbell noted that the process begins when we hear the Word and accept it. The Jews said that one had to be circumcised and keep the law to be RIGHTEOUS and rejected baptism for Gentiles.

Jesus said that we are all purified by faith: the faith of Jesus Christ.

Psalms 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
Isaiah 64:5 Thou meetest him that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways: behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.
Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

That means that they are not ceremonially disqualified. Pigs are also declared pure by THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST but they cannot become Disciples.

God "breathed" and the doubting Jews heard a Latin speaker speaking Judean. This gave Peter the courage to demand that Cornelius be baptized which was to be accepted as a willing disciple of Christ.

Campbell goes on and insists that one is not an upper case "C"hristian until the seed has been emplanted, grows and rises to a new life only AFTER obedience in baptism.

The word is the SEED but the parable of the seed proves that even if it germinates it may not result in a NEW LIFE or BIRTH able to participate. They miss the point that Abraham was JUSTIFIED by active faith but he was not LOST.

I don't see how people who make a profession out of denying OBEDIENCE can ever have that seal of a holy conscience.

 
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B
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74.179.248.56

Re: Different View of Holy Spirit

December 15 2012, 12:20 PM 

Another question: Who is "she"?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
70.193.15.123

Re: Different View of Holy Spirit

December 15 2012, 12:35 PM 

Spirit is NEUTER but it takes the gender of the PERSON. For instance "SHE has a spirit OF nastiness" does not mean that she has a little person named NASTY living inside of her body. As Donnie has pointed out the word OF appears almost every time spirit is mentioned in connection with a "people."

SHE is now Sophia-Zoe in all of the groups which have replaced worship teams for the Spoken or sung WORD.

SHE is the Holy Spirit in these destitute institutes. Methodist feminist 'pastors' worship SOPHIA. Catholics REALLY see the Godhead as GOD, Mary the mother of gods and beasts and the eternally infant son who does not replace the MEDIATRIX.

Religious teknokrats had to be MALES but they had to perform the roles of WOMEN as in David's naked dance "praising" or making himself vile with the camp-following slaves.

http://www.piney.com/Worship.Androgyny.The.Pagan.Sexual.Ideal.html

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
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Re: Different View of Holy Spirit

December 15 2012, 2:11 PM 

B states:
Another question: Who is "she"?


That's an interesting observation.

I think that John Waddey's "article" was in response to an original article by Claude A. Guild titled: "SHE BELIEVES THE MIRACLES OF BIBLE TIMES ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE."

Check this out:http://www.scripturessay.com/category/church/new-testament-church/page/3/


The above title [Guild's] does not mean the church today denies the miracles of creation, the flood, the walls of Jericho story, the virgin birth of Christ or his resurrection. Miracles confirmed the sonship of Jesus. "These . . ."
I think that in both titles [Guild's and Waddey's], "SHE" refers to "the church." The church of Christ is His bride and is/can be addressed as in: "she [the church] believes...." Also notice this hymn: "I love thy kingdom, Lord ... the church our blest Redeemer saved; her walls ... her sweet communion."

Let's not allow the "she' to distract us from our study of the "holy spirit OF [a preposition that identifies ownership or an entity that BELONGS TO] our Lord."

Let us refresh our mindset: ONLY the spirit OF God is HOLY. In other words, God's spirit is always HOLY, pure and blameless. Man's spirit [the spirit OF man] is to be like (or imitate) God's own spirit, WHICH is HOLY!!!

I know it will take time and perseverance to UNDO the Catholic-started and Protestant-propagated TRINITY DOCTRINE. God has a spirit which is HOLY. Man has also a spirit that should be just like the "holy" spirit of our Lord.

Consider this: The unholy spirit of man is NOT ANOTHER PERSON of man. The holy spirit of our Lord God is NOT ANOTHER PERSON of God our Lord.

 
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