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Keith D. Stanglin P.hd: Harding weaving about Instrumental Music

August 24 2010 at 11:11 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 72.171.0.148

Wayne Jackson Jesus in the form of God.

http://www.piney.com/Wayne.Jackson.Jesus.in.Form.of.God.html

The Spirit OF Christ defined the meaning of GOD: nothing which the New Testament writers in any way disturbs the facts:

[linked image]

Keith D. Stanglin at Harding seems to follow the "navigating the winds of change scheme."

http://www.piney.com/Keith.D.Stanglin.Harding.University.Instrumental.Music.html

He weaves back and forth by defending 'a cappella' and then weaves to the Instrumental Worship groups denying that there is any command against instruments.

This is material supplied with an "exam" and it is pretty certain that no student is going to challenge his wavering views. He endorses the Stone-Campbell Movement which seeks UNITY but fails to mention that this is the old Leroy Garrett folly begun just after the NACC finally got delisted from the Disciples in 1971.

Mark E. Powell at Harding Graduate School will present a Seminar on the TRINITY.

http://www.piney.com/Mark.E.Powell.Seminar.5555.Trinity.html

My first part of the review will be looking at the PROOF TEXTS from "scholarly" published world and then quote the ACTUAL church father to prove that they did not think of a trinity.

There is GOD and God has a SPIRIT or WISDOM or breath and when He speaks wordS those spoken wordS are always called the preexisting SON of God. He builds on the Foundation of John Mark hicks the major sowing of discord in the community church idea and musical worship teams


He uses his co-conspirator John Mark Hicks and a host of books on the Trinity. I



David was an unwitting prophet in some Messianic Psalms. Psalm 51 contrary to original sin is prophetic of Baptism in the kingdom of the Spiritual kingdom.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.51.conceived.in.sin.html

Psalm 51 also defines the Spirit as OUR spirit made right, just and holly.


Wayne Jackson is one of many "conservatives" who have accepted the idea that the Spirit OF Christ is another "person" and is therefore to be worshipped.

Of course, there is only one God the Father who is to be worshipped. Unfortunately, those who believe in the Holy Spirit often believe that "he" is speaking to or through them. They love to boast about keeping a set of rules proven to be superior to other people's set of rules. That is because everyone can hear the Spirit making sure that what they think is what God thinks.

This is a quick review:

http://www.piney.com/Wayne.Jackson.Is.Holy.Spirit.Worthy.Worship.html

To be continued.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 70.197.163.42 on May 8, 2013 11:48 PM


 
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Ray
(no login)
146.23.68.42

Glad Jesus settled this for us and not Ken

August 25 2010, 11:33 AM 

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19, ESV)

"I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14:16-17, ESV)

"the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." (John 14:26, ESV)

"when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me." (John 15:26, ESV)

"I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged." (John 16:7-11, ESV)

"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you." (John 16:13-15, ESV)


 
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Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

Jesus did settle it -- not the Trinitarians

August 25 2010, 1:45 PM 

Not so fast, Ray.

So, in John 14, the Father will send ... will give....

But in John 16:7ff, "I [Jesus] will send...."

If you study John chapters 14-16 very, very carefully, you will notice that it is not the Person No. 3 of the Trinity Doctrine as you think.

Pay very close attention to the pronouns [I, he, me, etc.] used in those chapters. (For one thing, in NT Greek, in the absence of a pronoun, translators have been guilty of substituting a "he" for an "it" because of a preconceived notion especially in the case of God's holy Spirit to designate a male gender.)

There are more references to the spirit of God as "it" or "which" than "he" or "whom." Again, a translation issue.

A list of 3 entities does not necessarily make it 3 persons.

This will be explained in detail in the next posts.

 
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Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

Whose Spirit?

August 25 2010, 4:30 PM 

-- "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit OF God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit OF Christ, he is none of his." (Rom. 8:9)

-- "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." (I Peter 1:11)

-- "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit OF Jesus Christ...." (Phil. 1:19)


Ray,

The "Holy Spirit" is synonymous with:

-- the spirit OF the Lord
-- the spirit OF the Father
-- the spirit OF him
-- the spirit OF God
-- the spirit OF the Lord God
-- the spirit OF the living God
-- the spirit OF Christ
-- the spirit OF Jesus Christ
-- the holy spirit OF God
-- etc.

How does the Trinitarian come up with "the spirit OF the living God" as another PERSON, a different PERSON, from the living God (being) Himself?


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Aug 25, 2010 9:48 PM


 
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a preacher
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184.79.153.169

A Defense of the Godhead.

November 1 2012, 10:57 AM 

Not sure if those on here against the Triune God are Unitarians or bitarians??? In any case, lets let the Bible argue for itself:

There is one God (Deut. 6:4).

The Father is God (1 Cor. 1:3).

The Father is not the Son (Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 17).

The Father is not the Holy Spirit (Jn. 15:26).

Jesus is God (Jn. 1:1-3).

Jesus is not God the Father (Mt. 3:17).

Jesus is not the Holy Spirit (Mt. 3:16).

The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).

The Holy Spirit is not Jesus (Jn. 14:26).

The Holy Spirit is not the Father (John 15:26).

The Holy Spirit is a person.

On the Greek argument about a supposed absence of pronouns shows a very poor understanding of how the Greek Language works. The gender of the pronoun is determined by the gender of the noun. The word for Spirit is a neuter noun and so naturally, the pronouns referring to it have to be neuter gender (cf. 1 Pet. 1:11). However, the New Testament uses the masculine pronoun at times! John 14:26 has a neuter & masculine pronoun. Ekeinos is masculine. John 16:13-14 is another example.

On the argument using all the verses saying "Holy Spirit OF God" or "Of Christ" also is a bad argument. Let us consider the same type of reasoning: This post is the post OF "a preacher." Therefore, the post is the preacher. Jesus is the Son OF God the Father. Therefore, Jesus and God the Father are not two entities but one. So, Jesus is His own Father and talks to Himself quite a lot... Poor reasoning I must say!

The Fact is, the Holy Spirit has personal masculine pronouns used of Him (John 14:26; 16:13-14). Also, the HS does things that prove He is a person (Jn. 16:13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Acts 2:4; Mt. 10:20; 2 Cor. 13:3; Acts 4:25; 28:25). The Holy Spirit is deity (Luke 1:67-70; cf. 2 Pet. 1:21).

Jesus says that only God is worthy of worship (Mt. 10:4 cf. Rev. 19:10; Acts 14:11-15).

When I worship God the Father and when I worship Jesus Christ, I make it a point to also worship the Holy Spirit. In fact, one of my favorite songs says:

Father We love you we worship and adore you, glorify Your name in all the earth. Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name in all the earth!
Jesus We love you we worship and adore you, glorify Your name in all the earth. Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name in all the earth!
Spirit We love you we worship and adore you, glorify Your name in all the earth. Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name! Glorify Your name in all the earth!

To deny God the Holy Spirit of worship would be the same as denying Christ worship or refusing to worship the Father.

Some get confused...how could there be 1 yet 3? Read John 17. Look at the unity that the Godhead truly has. That is a large part of it. Yes, it is difficult to comprehend the nature of God. We are finite beings. Will we ever understand it all? No. But, those who are faithful to Him will truly get to experience His full nature in Heaven! Consider however, a parallel: There is only one thing that is water. H2O. There is nothing else that is H2O. ONLY H2O is H2O. But, H2O can be liquid water, solid ice, or gas steam. Each has its purposes (water for drinking, ice for cooling, and steam for ironing clothes for example) but each is still that one and only H2O. Some other illustrations help: Believers (Jn. 17:21-22; Acts 4:32; 1 Cor. 12:20); Husband and wife (Gen. 2:24; Mt. 19:5; Eph. 5:31); Paul and Apollos (1 Cor. 3:6, 8); God is not 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 but God is 1 X 1 X 1 = 1. Although these illustrations are inadequate at explaining everything, it helps us to grasp somewhat of God's amazing nature!

I will continue to worship the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, because all 3 are Deity and all 3 are worthy of worship!


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.80.155

Re: A Defense of the Godhead.

November 1 2012, 5:22 PM 

Thanks for the response: I will respond when my old body moves me.

Ken

 
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Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

When do you...?

August 25 2010, 2:01 PM 

Ray,

We know you set aside time to worship our Father in heaven.

When do you worship the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11)?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.13

A holy spirit would let you read the whole story.

August 25 2010, 3:55 PM 

"I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." (John 14:16-17, ESV)

I don't know why no writer in the church of Christ can even SEEwhat follows!

John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you

"the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you." (John 14:26, ESV

1John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Advocate is a Comforter is "I WILL COME TO YOU" and in Spirit form I will be IN MY NAME

1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.26

No hope for an Anti-Christ

August 26 2010, 6:47 PM 

1Cor. 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge.
......Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth
1Cor. 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything,
......he knoweth nothing yet as he OUGHT to know.
1Cor. 8:3 But if any man love God,
......the same is known of him.
1Cor. 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols,
......we know that an idol is nothing in the world,
......and that there is none other God but ONE.
1Cor. 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,
......(as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Cor. 8:6 But to US
......there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things,
............ and we in him;
......and one Lord Jesus Christ,
............by whom are all things, and we by him.

1Cor. 8:11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish,
......for whom Christ died?
1Cor. 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren,
......and wound their weak conscience,
......ye sin against Christ.

1John 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth,
......but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1John 2:22 Who is a liar
...... but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
...... He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son,
......the same hath not the Father:
...... (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you,
......which ye have heard from the beginning.
...... If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you,
......ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.120.200

???

September 6 2010, 12:15 PM 

Do you guys really expect an answer???

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Is it because you do not have an answer?

September 6 2010, 2:47 PM 

Dave,

So, let me pose the same question to you (Ray may still be searching for the correct answer -- give him time).

We know you set aside time to worship our Father in heaven -- during "worship services" or at a family gathering or when you're alone, etc.

When do you worship the [holy] Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9; I Peter 1:11; Phil. 1:19)?

You must prove your point or your credibility will be questioned.

I feel strongly that you may be rejecting the truth that there is the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ. Or that you weren't aware that there is such as the spirit OF Jesus Christ. And your lack of awareness may be due to the fact that you hear only about "the spirit OF God" and possibly never hear about "the spirit OF Jesus Christ"?

Think about that for a minute: "the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ" ... and then think about it more often from now on. Jesus Christ HAS a spirit that is holy, just as God or the Father (Matt. 10:20] HAS a holy spirit.

I'm willing to help you understand "the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ" by just quoting the IGNORED passages from Scripture:


  • "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit OF God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit OF Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9)

  • "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit OF Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." ( I Peter 1:11)

  • "For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit OF Jesus Christ." (Phil. 1:19)

  • "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit OF your Father which speaketh in you. (Matt. 10:19-20)

I'm really not making it complicated. And that's not my intention. I'm just presenting the truth that you may not have known or heard of before.

So, when do you worship the [holy] Spirit of Christ?

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.106.52

Get a Life

September 7 2010, 8:56 PM 

All I heard in that tirade of yours was...."You must prove your point or your credibility will be questioned."

I must?!?!

Son, I don't MUST do anything that you request. You, oh irrational one, do NOT have the right to make requests of anyone.
Comprende?
happy.gif

 
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Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

More on the holy spirit OF Jesus Christ

September 8 2010, 11:48 AM 

Did you even read the passages concerning the holy spirit OF the Lord Jesus Christ? BTW, let me add one more reference from Scripture:

  • "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." (Gal. 4:6)

How many times does the Holy Scripture have to identify the Holy Spirit? There are innumerable references to the truth:

(1) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord
(2) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF God
(3) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the living God
(4) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Christ
(5) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Jesus Christ
(6) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF Him
(7) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Lord God
(8) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF His Son
(9) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the holy Spirit OF God
(0) That the Holy Spirit is a.k.a. the Spirit OF the Father

The problem with you, Dave, is the same problem I had with the preconceived notion that a mere mention of "the Holy Spirit" caused me to instantaneously and automatically think: "the THIRD BEING or PERSON of the TRINITY." But that was and is a fallacious tenet.

Now, I know better -- the scriptures tell me so. So, please don't consider the list and supporting passages as a "tirade" of mine. I have quoted scriptures to help you understand that "spirit" is never a "person" and what the Holy Spirit is "ALSO KNOWN AS" [a.k.a.].

Oh, "the Spirit OF Jesus Christ" -- is it the THIRD PERSON of the Trinity Doctrine while Christ himself is the SECOND PERSON?

OK, I'll even be "nicer" this time: Please, Dave, if you believe that the Spirit OF Jesus Christ is the THIRD PERSON GOD, when do you worship the holy Spirit OF Christ?

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.120.200

Not Good

September 10 2010, 4:26 PM 

Donnie,
Did you notice that you were answering for me again? It's akin/similiar to talking to yourself (may even be worse), and that is never good.

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Just waiting...

September 10 2010, 8:21 PM 

Dave,

No, I did not notice that. I am simply waiting for your rebuttal. What's happened to your debating skills? Your silence is deafening. I'm beginning to think that you're now seeing the light. And that's a good sign.

 
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Dave
(no login)
75.176.35.188

It is Obvious

September 11 2010, 10:07 PM 

Donnie, you said that my silence, in answering you, is deafening.

The old saying......'be quiet and be thought a fool, speak up and remove all doubt.'

I like silence, but you on the other hand, like to hear yourself talk.....look at the old saying again.

 
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AM
(no login)
71.30.187.12

Re: It is Obvious

November 10 2012, 7:28 PM 

But you continue to talk, with out a point. I can tell, Dave, you think of yourself as a brilliant person. That is the true definition of a fool!

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.80.155

The Trinity Passages Part One

November 1 2012, 8:06 PM 

The Classical Trinity is not God, Jesus and a Spirit person. it is Father, Son and Spirit.
The Word of God was/is the wordS spoken by the One God through His breath (spirit)

The Tritheism taught by H. Leo Boles and defended by John Mark Hicks and LU
.....The Father is a "person" with His own center of consciousness: ranked #1
.....The Son is Jesus an eternal "person" with His own center of consciousness ranked #2
........With His own unique skills
.....The Holy Spirit is a "person" ranked #3.
........The Father had His Dispensation
........The Son had His Dispensation (in the Bible)
........The Spirit now has HIS dispensation and speaks directly to some.

There is no recorded history before the Boles Dispensation who would not accuse this with being blasphemy. Most discord is based on people thinking that their spirit is A HOLY SPIRIT. Here is the John Mark Hicks and LU's Tritheism:



This is the Egyptian Trinity worshipped with musical instrument under the image of Apis, the golden CalveS.

[linked image]

If Jesus had not denied the "triune" nature of the One God he would have agreed with all pagans. This false teaching removes any possibility of appealing to most Jews or Muslims.

Not sure if those on here against the Triune God are Unitarians or bitarians??? In any case, lets let the Bible argue for itself:

Neither one. When God performs any action it always includes His Spirit (breath) and His WordS (the Son). Jesus made it certain that He did not speak on His own; what He heard from the Father He spoke perfectly. The Spirit without measure assured that no human could ever speak FOR God unless He personally "breathed" on that person.

Remember that Thomas wanted to SEE the Father: Jesus said that when He Saw Him He saw the Father. Father, Spirit (Mother) and infant Son is what ALL of the Greek-influenced Jews understood. God presented ONE PERSON as the antithesis of all pagan triads. This was to repudiate the universal pagan triads or families of gods.

There is one God (Deut. 6:4).

Jesus: No Jew ever believed that God was three people. God's Annointed Christ was the Rock, Manna, Pillar, Angel carrying out God's Will. God's Word was the DABAR which is the same as LOGOS.

Jesus called God THE God. If Jesus ever thought of a "trinity" this would have been a good time to DEBUNK the theory of the Jews..

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love THE Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
........this is the first commandment.
Mark 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
........There is none other commandment greater than these.

The Father is God (1 Cor. 1:3).

If you will notice, in the Epistles, the One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ omits the Spirit. That is because the Spirit OF God is now the Spirit OF Jesus Christ which is the Mind or Mental disposition of God. That is because as the Epistles were finished the Holy Spirit almost disappears.

[linked image]

Notice that Jesus is made Lord and Christ. God's Ruler on earth is not the same universal Spirit.

1Corinthians 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ
........through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth,
........to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,
........with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
1Corinthians 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace,
........from God our Father,
........and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

God made the man Jesus of Nazareth both Lord and Christ. God's annointed or Ruler is not the Personal God. It is pretty easy to REMOVE all of the glory from Jesus of Nazareth Who UNIQUELY speaks for God. That is a clue to those who have to be skilled speakers, singers or musicians to ATTRACT people.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.254.113.26

Re: The Trinity Passages Part One

November 2 2012, 1:20 PM 

A Preacher: feel free to respond.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
174.252.146.1

Preacher Trinity Passages Part B

November 2 2012, 10:03 PM 

I know that the Catholics have told the preacherlings that they are ANATHEMA if they reject. Perhaps modern Priests in our know-nothing world and most "protestant priests" or fathers think that this means Three separated persons (people) a bit smarter than someone with a new Ph.d.

However, it is probably rare than any of the clergy ever goes beyond lectureships and reading the writings of the Doctor they want to give them a doctorate: so they to can TAKE AWAY THE KEY TO KNOWLEDGE.

ANTICHRISTS are those who deny that Christ (Messiah) came in "a body prepared for me" REQUIRED to fulfill prophecy. God MADE Jesus of Nazareth TO BE both Lord and Christ. When Jesus returned in spirit to the God Who gave it, he received the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit. That means that Jesus was given the evangelistic role as The Holy Spirit. 1 John 2.

The SON of God is the WORD of God in all of the real trinitarian documents. When God SPEAKS His Word is His Son. Jesus was made to be the Visible, Audible "congealed" Breath of God. Remember Jesus said, "Parables to fool the fools."

[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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