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Dynamic Worship Performs: Thomas Campbell

September 24 2010 at 10:14 PM
Ken Sublett  (Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
from IP address 67.142.130.15

One of the hallel or praise hymns was recited once a year at Passover. The tradition of the Jews would point to Psalm 137 being sung when the forerunner announced Messiah. This points to hanging up their harps once and for all.

Matt. 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
.....until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Matt. 26:30 And when they had HYMNED, they went out into the mount of Olives.


THIS PINS YOU TO CHANTING ONE HYMN ONCE A YEAR.

Reading the halal often was called IDOLATRY: you believed that you had some value to give to God.

30 Kai humnsantes exlthon eis to Oros tn Elain.

Humn-e , Ep. humnei Hes.Op.2; Ep.3pl. A. humneusin h.Ap.190; fem. part. humneusa Hes. Th.11;
2. descant upon, in song or speech,
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a:


IF YOU REPEAT THE HYMN OVER AND OVER YOU ARE A SORCERER.

II. to tell over and over and over again, to repeat, recite, rehearse, Lat. decantare,

Decanto. A. Usually with the secondary idea of something trite, worn out, absurd; to repeat often, to say over and over again
C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm: nullo decantatus carmine,


The LADED BURDEN was repeating type songs which just aggitated people as well as God because they thought they could do enough WORK to force God to hear them.

Hes. Th. 1 Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist,
and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals

Soph. Ant. 815 Antigone
[806] Citizens of my fatherland, see me setting out on my last journey, looking at my last sunlight, [810] and never again. No, Hades who lays all to rest leads me living to Acheron's shore, though I have not had my due portion of the chant that brings the bride, nor has any hymn been mine [815] for the crowning of marriage. Instead the lord of Acheron will be my groom.


CANTILLATION is closer to SPEAK than SING: melody as tunfulness belongs to th 19th century.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Christ in the synagogue and for the ekklesia COMMNDED


[linked image]

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
.....them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


He EXAMPLED how His word was to be treated "authentically".

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written


Paul commanded how His letters were to be treated .

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you,
.....cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th. 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be READ unto all the holy brethren.


Paul commanded Timothy how to hold church.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to (public) READING, to exhortation, to doctrine.

"Anaginosko--of written characters, know them again, and so, read, 6. Med., attach oneself to a thing, cling, cleave to, 7. Pass., to be held fast by a thing
Anagn-stikos
A. capable of reading, a good reader, Arr.Epict.2.18.2; fond of reading, Plu.2.514a.
2. suitable for reading, Arist. Rh.1413b12, cf. PGrenf.1.14.12.

Proana-gignosko
A. read aloud, D.C.38.2; esp. of a teacher reading aloud to pupils, Plu.2.79ce.
II. read previously or beforehand, J.Vit.44, Plu.2.36e, Gal.15.745.

Prov. 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Prov. 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates:
.....In the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
.....and the scorners delight in their scorning,
.....and fools hate knowledge?

How terminally ungodly that preachers would violate the direct commands, examples and inferences if you honor God and His Word.

If the command was to READ the Word without any "me, me, me" those who claim that Christ did not ordain a PATTERN are too evil to be preachers/singers and too ignorant to let free to roam the streets.

If someone sent you a personal letter and someone "tampered" with it or charged you for "tampering" with it and then sang and clapped while singing just the "sentiment" of the letter they you know how people treat God worse than the local prostitute.

And those who ENABLE the insanity are just as guilty.


    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 67.142.130.45 on Sep 28, 2010 1:48 PM


 
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AuthorReply
Dave
(no login)
69.59.106.52

Huh???

September 26 2010, 6:53 AM 

Ken,
Just to clarify, when you say "The speakers, singers, instrument players and craftsmen have in fact been SILENCED in an Ex-church of Christ," you mean that even those who sing a capella are sinful???

Just a yes or no would suffice.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Dynamic Worship in the Musical Performing Arts Center

September 27 2010, 12:36 AM 

Dave,

I'm trying to understand your question based on your own understanding of the last paragraph of the initial post:

1. Is there a difference to you between: (a) congregational singing and (b) congregational singing with instrument players?

2. Is there a difference to you between: (a) congregational singing and (b) the Praise Team [the Choir] performing to/for the congregation?

3. Do you understand what it means "when you remove CHRIST from your public confession"?

4. Is there a difference to you when, e.g., Oak Hills Church of Christ changed its "public confession" from being "of Christ" to Oak Hills Church, with the name of "Christ" removed?

5. How do you identify an "ex-church of Christ"?

6. I searched and did not find your reference to "a cappella" or "sinful" in the original post. Was this a separate question that you've wanted to ask for quite some time now?

7. By "a cappella" did you specifically have in mind: (a) congregational singing only or (b) the Praise Team [CHOIR] singing to/for the congregation without instruments?

You see, there was no connection between: (1) "being SILENCED in an ex-church of Christ" per the last paragraph of the initial post and (2) your question about whether or not "that even those who sing a capella are sinful...." [It would have been a lot less confusing with you asking the question (separately) without associating it with the preceding quote.]

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.38

Christians worship IN THE SPIRT and cast out body worship leaders

September 27 2010, 4:34 PM 

[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.106.52

What Ken says Against what God Says

September 28 2010, 1:15 AM 

Matthew 26
26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."
27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."
30When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.


YOUR LORD, Ken, to whom your knee will bow too one day, SANG a hymn. So Ken, you are WRONG!
The very Word that you continue to abuse proves that you are wrong!

So continue in your denial, but it's not what I think, but the Word of God that makes your words untrue.

Like you say......speak that which is written.
I have!!!



 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Singing a hymn

September 28 2010, 2:08 AM 

Dave,

What or where is the argument for or against singing a hymn? It's not there.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.45

Permission granted: Hymn one Hymn once a year and GO OUT!

September 28 2010, 1:49 PM 

One of the hallel or praise hymns was recited once a year at Passover. The tradition of the Jews would point to Psalm 137 being sung when the forerunner announced Messiah. This points to hanging up their harps once and for all.

Matt. 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine,
.....until that day when I drink it new with you in my Fathers kingdom.
Matt. 26:30 And when they had HYMNED, they went out into the mount of Olives.


THIS PINS YOU TO CHANTING ONE HYMN ONCE A YEAR.

Reading the halal often was called IDOLATRY: you believed that you had some value to give to God.

30 Kai humnsantes exlthon eis to Oros tn Elain.

Humn-e , Ep. humnei Hes.Op.2; Ep.3pl. A. humneusin h.Ap.190; fem. part. humneusa Hes. Th.11;
2. descant upon, in song or speech,
ton nomon humnein recite the form of the law, Id.Lg.871a:


IF YOU REPEAT THE HYMN OVER AND OVER YOU ARE A SORCERER.

II. to tell over and over and over again, to repeat, recite, rehearse, Lat. decantare,

Decanto. A. Usually with the secondary idea of something trite, worn out, absurd; to repeat often, to say over and over again
C. Esp., to repeat as a charm, and hence to bewitch, enchant, charm: nullo decantatus carmine,


The LADED BURDEN was repeating type songs which just aggitated people as well as God because they thought they could do enough WORK to force God to hear them.

Hes. Th. 1 Thence they arise and go abroad by night, [10] veiled in thick mist,
and utter their song with lovely voice, praising Zeus the aegis-holder, and queenly Hera of Argos who walks on golden sandals

Soph. Ant. 815 Antigone
[806] Citizens of my fatherland, see me setting out on my last journey, looking at my last sunlight, [810] and never again. No, Hades who lays all to rest leads me living to Acheron's shore, though I have not had my due portion of the chant that brings the bride, nor has any hymn been mine [815] for the crowning of marriage. Instead the lord of Acheron will be my groom.


CANTILLATION is closer to SPEAK than SING: melody as tunfulness belongs to th 19th century.

"The word that is employed for this "anaginosko, anagnosis) is the technical term for the cultic reading aloud of the Old Testament in the synagogue. By applying this terminology to the reading of his own epistles he not only ascribes the same authority to the apostolic word as to the Old Testament writings...he also combines a quotation from the Old Testament with a word of Jesus and introduces the whole with the familiar formula: 'for the Scripture says.'" (Ridderbos, Hermon, Paul, P. 483 an Outline of His Theo., Eerdmans)

Christ in the synagogue and for the ekklesia COMMNDED

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city
.....them that preach him,
.....being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


He EXAMPLED how His word was to be treated "authentically".

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias.
.....And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written


Paul commanded how His letters were to be treated .

Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you,
.....cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

1Th. 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.


Paul commanded Timothy how to hold church.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to (public) reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

"Anaginosko--of written characters, know them again, and so, read, 6. Med., attach oneself to a thing, cling, cleave to, 7. Pass., to be held fast by a thing
Anagn-stikos , , on,
A. capable of reading, a good reader, Arr.Epict.2.18.2; fond of reading, Plu.2.514a.
2. suitable for reading, Arist. Rh.1413b12, cf. PGrenf.1.14.12.

Proana-gignsk ,
A. read aloud, D.C.38.2; esp. of a teacher reading aloud to pupils, Plu.2.79ce.
II. read previously or beforehand, J.Vit.44, Plu.2.36e, Gal.15.745.

Prov. 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
Prov. 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates:
n the city she uttereth her words, saying,
Prov. 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity?
and the scorners delight in their scorning,
and fools hate knowledge?

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.120.208

More Games

September 29 2010, 4:18 PM 

Donnie, you asked me..."What or where is the argument for or against singing a hymn? It's not there."

You can read, so please REread Ken's last post.
He is against ANY kind of music, including singing.

You already knew that though, didn't you Donnie?

More games.......

 
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Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

No, it's your same misunderstanding

September 29 2010, 6:14 PM 

No, Dave, your last argument was:

YOUR LORD, Ken, to whom your knee will bow too one day, SANG a hymn. So Ken, you are WRONG!
The very Word that you continue to abuse proves that you are wrong!


The key expression you used was "sang a hymn." As if Ken had made an argument against "singing a hymn."

Either you misunderstood him or you made it up.

Read carefully. Ken, as well as the Scripture, is against certain types of music, including singing, that is associated with musical idolatry or performance.




 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

This is BEYOND AWESOME!!!!

October 5 2010, 7:56 PM 

Hey Donnie, you giving Ken time to head me off before you post my response?
This is beyond awesome.
It doesn't matter. If you wait until next year or even if you NEVER post my response, that's ok.
Ken, and all of you guys, have to take it up one day, with God....whether you like it or not.

The Truth ALWAYS wins out....don't ya know?!?!

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

No "trick or treat"

October 5 2010, 10:55 PM 

Dave,

If I'm understanding you correctly, let me say that there are some posting options that you may be already aware of:

1. You may reply directly to the immediate post [located anywhere], and the reply will display underneath that particular post.

2. You may reply to the post displayed at the bottom of the thread, whether or not it is the most recent, and the reply will display at the bottom of the thread.

3. You may reply to the initial (original) post of the author, and your reply will always display at the bottom of the thread.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.49

Broke my rule

September 29 2010, 6:16 PM 

I broke my rule and conviction that what's-his-name is a serious Bible reader and responded to his and others silly argument that because David sang and played instruments and went naked with the girls ONCE; and because Jesus celebrated Passover and sang a hymn (once) and went out (once), HE has the authority to act up in pubic three times a week.

The issue is the once-hymned hymn authorizes NOT-inspired gender-blending praise songs is not--for the minimal believer.

Rather than being able to absorb a fact he lies that I am AGAINST. A disciple or student searches for truth for the possibility that a Bible student is reading and does not do DOGMA. God and the whole Bible knowing that He is God and we are not told us not to "imagination."

What's his name promised to go away and quit playing Devil's advocate so convincingly. Please don't dribble on this thread.

[linked image]


 
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Anonymous
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.143

The Locusts Have been Unleashed

October 3 2010, 5:51 PM 

Abaddon or Apollyon known by John as Apollo unleashes the locusts (muses) whom the mother goddess had cast into the underworld because they did not respect her. This Mother is identified in Revelatin 18. Her priesthood is defined in Revelation 18:22-23

John and the rest of us if we lived back then would understand the secret message of the Locusts. The message is hidden because no one has the time to LOOK where John points. He could see the burial island of CIRCE from Patmos. Church named for Circe becomes a Circus and fulfills the warning prophecy about the locusts. In fact, everyone wants to be part of the Locust Teams. John, Paul and most citizens trained in the theaters would know about Homer whereas the local Civil and Clergy would. It was safe for John to speak to those with a need to know as it is now.

Homer, Odyssey 5 [1] Now Dawn arose from her couch from beside lordly Tithonus, to bear light (Phosto the immortals and to mortal men. And the gods were sitting down to council, and among them Zeus, who thunders on high, whose might is supreme.

Eos is ZOE: She is Venus, Lucifer is the SON of the Dawn.

(ll. 378-382) And Eos bare to Astraeus the strong-hearted winds, brightening Zephyrus, and Boreas, headlong in his course, and Notus, -- a goddess mating in love with a god. And after these Erigenia (Eos, the `Early-born'.) bare the star Eosphorus (Dawn-bringer), and the gleaming stars with which heaven is crowned.

Lucifer (Latin: Lightbearer), Greek PHOSPHORUS, or Eosphoros
in classical mythology, the morning star (i.e., the planet Venus at dawn);

The pre-Christian Septuagint Greek version of Isaiah 14:12
renders heylel by "ho heosphoros,"

s de. This is a poetical way of expressing the next morning. oud' ei Tithnoio phun khariesteros ei

II. pr. n., s the goddess of dawn, Il. 11.1, Hes.Th.372,378, etc. (Cf. Skt. u[snull ]´s 'dawn', Lat. aurora, etc.)

Mousa , pl. Mousai: Muse, the Muses, nine in number, daughters of Zeus
and Mnemosyne, Od. 8.488, Il. 2.598, Od. 24.60;
they sing for the gods,
and inspire the bard,

Hes. Th. 372 And Theia was subject in love to Hyperion and bore great Helius Sun
and clear Selene Moon and Eos Dawn who shines upon all that are on earth
and upon the deathless Gods who live in the wide heaven.

The Israelites, of course worshipped this "starry host" (Acts 7 etal).

Homer Iliad 11.[1] Now Dawn rose from her couch from beside lordly Tithonus, to bring light to immortals and to mortal men; and Zeus sent forth Strife unto the swift ships of the Achaeans, dread Strife, bearing in her hands a portent of war. [5] And she took her hand by Odysseus' black ship, huge of hull, that was in the midst so that a shout could reach to either end, both to the huts of Aias, son of Telamon, and to those of Achilles; for these had drawn up their shapely ships at the furthermost ends, trusting in their valour and the strength of their hands. [10] There stood the goddess and uttered a great and terrible shout, a shrill cry of war,

Commentary: So Mimnerm. ap. Stob Flor. 116. 33 Tithn men edken ekhein kakon aphthiton ho Zeus, gras ho kai thanatou rhigion argaleou. The story may be supposed to allegorize the change of the fresh morning hours into the scorching noon that brings weariness and weakness with it.
The old Tithonus, turning again to childish treble, pipes and whistles
in his sound,
so that his voice was compared to the noise of the cicala,

the only creature heard in the heat of the day: compare sole sub ardenti resonant arbusta cicadis Virg. Ecl. 2. 13.LycophronVirg. Ecl., 941, follows Callimachus in giving Eos herself the name Tit, which must be etymologically connected with Tithnos.


Various crickets, Cicalas or Locusts point directly to the Muses unleashed.

tettix , i_gos (but i_kos Ar. and Theoc. acc. to Hdn.Gr. ap. Choerob. in Theod.1.292 H.), o(, A.
cicala, Cicada plebeia or allied species, a winged insect fond of basking on trees,
when the male makes a chirping or clicking noise by means of certain drums or 'tymbals'
underneath the wings but they also became a prov. for garrulity, lalein tettix

astêr , ho, gen. eros: dat. pl. astrasi Il.22.28 ,317 (Aristarch.;
astrasi Sch.Ven., Choerob.):--
star (v. astron), aster' opôrinôi Il. 5.5 ; oulios a. 11.62 ; Seirios a. Hes.Op.417 ;
a. Arktouros the chief star in the constellation, ib.565, etc.; shooting star or meteor,

2. flame, light, fire, E.Hel.1131 (lyr.).
3. astêr petrinos meteoric stone

This noise is freq. used as a simile for sweet sounds, Il.3.151,
Hes.Op.582, Sc.393, Simon.173, 174, etc.;
and Plato calls them hoi Mousn prophtai,

Muses in Revelation 18 are called sorcerers or prophesiers.

Mousa , pl. Mousai: Muse, the Muses, nine in number, daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne, Od. 8.488, Il. 2.598, Od. 24.60; they sing for the gods, and inspire the bard, Il. 1.604, Il. 1.1, Od. 1.1, Il. 2.484.

-Aeid , Ion. and poet. form used by Hom., Pi., and sometimes in Trag. and Com. (even in trim., A.Ag.16, E.Fr.188; intetram., Cratin. 305), also in Ion. Prose; contr. ad (also Anacr.45, Theoc.), Trag., Pl., etc.: impf. hence of all kinds of vocal sounds, crow as cocks, hoot as owls, Arat.1000; croak as frogs, hoi tettiges khamothen (from the Ground) asontai

(Aeido) sounds, twang, of the bow-string, Od.21.411; whistle, of the wind through a tree, to crow too soon',


Akris , idos, h(, A. grasshopper, locust, cricket,
in collective sense, Men.Prot.p.108D.; poll a.

Exodus 10.[4] Or else, if you refuse to let my people go, behold, tomorrow I will bring locusts into your country,

Polus a massed multitude--inside the CITY. You have to go OUTSIDE to find Jesus today.

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 2Co. 4:3

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2Co.4:4

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

No Problema

October 5 2010, 10:11 PM 

It's ok Donnie....just remember, it's your site.....you don't have to post it. You can do anything you want here. You can treat people anyway you wish.
It's your little dreamworld.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Not a problem after all?

October 5 2010, 11:04 PM 

Thought so. I posted "No 'trick or treat'" earlier. Enjoy.

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.44

The meaning of church or Ekklesia

October 6 2010, 12:08 AM 

The function of the synagogue and then ekklesia was to read that which is written and then discuss it and admonish one another to observe the scheduled text.

What we call "singing" does not have the purpose of the various forms of anti-phonal or responsorial singing or cantillation.

This was a way to MEMORIZE the assigned text by repeating it as we memorize anything. We don't know anything we have not memorized.

The Reformed Presbyterians used a process called "lining out" and it is still used. The leader quotes (simple singing if you wish since you won't drive out the owners) and everyone recites it over and over. They would have been Psalmody before the Text lost its importance. That changed most violently during the "awakenings" and the recent Jubilations which hoped to repeat Cane Ridge.

It would be nice if Concerned Members continued its effort to be about the only EKKLESIA you are going to find. That would involve responding and discussing the text rather than to hack personalities of the lost-but- not-lamented Faithsite.

That means that responders should speak for themselves.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Admit It

October 6 2010, 6:25 PM 

Donnie,
You got to admit.....if you don't care to post my response it must have hurt you to the bone.
You were the one who said...." Read carefully. Ken, as well as the Scripture, is against certain types of music, including singing, that is associated with musical idolatry or performance."

You can't get around the Truth Donnie. Ever!
Was it the part where Ken said that ALL singing is an abomination which includes your traditional congregational singing?

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

OK, I admit...

October 7 2010, 12:21 AM 

That anyone's response, including yours, is posted unless it contains an "expletive." Sometimes there is a delay in posting a response that has not been read yet. Sometimes a response, when deemed as a personal attack, may be transferred to another thread: "Special 'Den of Vipers' Thread for the Reviled or Slandered--'Getting to Know You.'" On occasion, a response with no content and viciously attacks another poster is deleted.

1. I searched and found the expression "ALL singing" only in your above post "Admit It."

2. I searched and found the word "abomination" only in your above post "Admit It."

3. I searched and found the expression "congregational singing" only in 2 places: (a) in your post above "Admit It" and (b) in my post titled "Dynamic Worship in the Musical Performing Arts Center" dated September 27 2010, 12:36 AM. In my post, I posed 7 questions to you, and you did not respond to the questions. I was seeking some clarification from you, e.g., if there is a difference between: (1) congregational singing and (2) congregational singing with playing musical instruments. There were other questions.

Of course, ALL singing includes [traditional] congregational singing. But don't you see why it is necessary to have a clear, concise definition of a terminology or an expression used in a premise, as in "congregational singing"?

 
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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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