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No answers on other forum (Sunday School In Exile) so trying this one

October 9 2010 at 12:05 AM
Sonny  (no login)
from IP address

[Title in other forum is "Acapella vs. Instruments / S.R. Judgment vs. Mercy"]

I do not want to preach to or judge/condemn, but to think with and lift up Christ.

After the sermon on the mountainside in Matthew 5-7, the first 2 stories of faith are of a leper and a centurion. Matthew is generally accepted as the most "Jewish" gospel. 'Typical'(?) orthodox Jews then would have questioned an unclean leper and an unclean Gentile having faith (the Centurion's was "great" - v. 10) and being shown mercy by Christ.
I wonder how many texts we could list on the topic of mercy vs. judgment / self-righteousness?

Luke 7:36-50 > Simon (Pharisee) and Sinful Woman, Luke 18:9-14 > Pharisee and Tax Collector, etc.

Matthew 21:31b - Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you." ("you" - perhaps the chief priests and elders from vs. 23?)

I find texts like Matthew 12:1-8 and James 2:10-13 interesting as well.

In Matthew 12 Jesus discusses David's direct violation of a commandment, yet receiving mercy.

James 2 discusses the direct violation of the commandments of adultery and murder, yet receiving mercy, and how mercy triumphs over judgment.

I am interested in seeing how teachers on this sight would answer the following questions:

1. If someone worships God acappella, yet commits adultery, can they be forgiven?

2. If someone worships God with a piano, yet does not commit adultery, can they be forgiven? (I understand this is assuming/implying that the piano is a sin.)

3. If someone worships acappella, does not commit adultery, but does not show mercy to others, can they be forgiven? (James 2:12 and 4:11-12 warn not to judge without mercy.)

A primary point is: Truth includes grace, which I find lacking on this sight (John 1:18 - Jesus came full of grace and truth, not just truth.)

A second point is: why does this sight focus on instruments more than adultery or gossip or drunkenness or pride or worry or unbelief or materialism or homosexuality or hatred or indifference or you name it, and ultimately, that for all sin, which we have all sinned (Rom. 3:23), we "are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (v. 24).

I do not want to preach to or judge/condemn, but to think with and encourage.


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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)

Re: No answers on other forum (Sunday School In Exile) so trying this one

October 9 2010, 4:50 PM 

I am interested in seeing how teachers on this sight would answer the following questions:
1. If someone worships God acappella, yet commits adultery, can they be forgiven?

In Romans 14 Paul speaks of practices in the marketplace: where they buy food and attend the pagan temples. Paul did not exclude people but outlawed "doubtful disputations" which would be any of the diversities practices of the sects identified by DIET but all practicing forms of wild vocal and instrumental music to drive people into a frenzy.

In Romans 15, as in other never-instrumental passages, Paul defined what he called synagogue or ekklesia which was a SCHOOL OF CHRIST.

Rom. 15:1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak,
......and not to please ourselves. (instrumental music and theatrics)
Rom. 15:2 Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.
Rom. 15:3 For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written,
......The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.
Rom. 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime
......were written for our learning,
......that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
Rom. 15:5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
Rom. 15:6 That ye may with ONE MIND and ONE MOUTH glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rom. 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

Verse 5-6 implicates "special" singing groups using their mouth to PERFORM worship for another. While they knew nothing about metrical singing (never in the Bible) their form of cantillation was a way to memorize the scheduled passage of Scripture. The Word was PREACHED by being READ.

The sole purpose was that each disciple learn a passage of Scripture so that, as history notes, they could sing it to themselves all week. That would keep evil out of their spirits and inculcate the doctrine of the systematically read text. The prophets and prophecies fulfilled was the resource Peter commended to cause the 'day star to arise in their hearts.'

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N.J Gold
(Login NJGold)


October 9 2010, 6:32 PM 

Hebrews 10:26,27 NASV - For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

God is a Spirit. This is a confirmation drawn from the very nature of God. Since men are flesh, we ought not to wonder, if they take delight in those things which correspond to their own disposition. Hence it arises, that they contrive many things in the worship of God which are full of display, but have no solidity. But they ought first of all to consider that they have to do with God, who can no more agree with the flesh than fire with water. This single consideration, when the inquiry relates to the worship of God, ought to be sufficient for restraining the wantonness of our mind, that God is so far from being like us, that those things which please us most are the objects of his loathing and abhorrence. And if hypocrites are so blinded by their own pride, that they are not afraid to subject God to their opinion, or rather to their unlawful desires, let us know that this modesty does not hold the lowest place in the true worship of God, to regard with suspicion whatever is gratifying according to the flesh. Besides, as we cannot ascend to the height of God, let us remember that we ought to seek from His word the rule by which we are governed. This passage is frequently quoted by the Fathers against the Arians, to prove the Divinity of the Holy Spirit, but it is improper to strain it for such a purpose; for Christ simply declares here that his Father is of a spiritual nature, and, therefore, is not moved by frivolous matters, as men, through the lightness and unsteadiness of their character, are wont to be." [CALVIN].

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What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

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120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)

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