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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Surprised

October 22 2010, 5:40 PM 

I did not know there were still people who believed the KJV had no translation mistakes, and was the only version a Christian should use.

With all of the dogma promoted on this site, I am surprised in the lack of churches listed. I would think a narrow, remnant theology would be much more exclusive.

For example: "The Wall" could include all of those "shameful" congregations who actually take their youth to Winterfest.

People need to know such helpful information. Souls are at stake.

-Sonny

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.26.227

Re: Surprised

October 22 2010, 6:42 PM 

Sonny wrote: "I did not know there were still people who believed the KJV had no translation mistakes, and was the only version a Christian should use."

Perhaps the people who believe that the KJV has all kinds of "translation mistakes" are the people who don't believe this or that doctrine in the KJV and use alleged "translation mistakes" as an excuse to ignore such doctrine.


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Surprised

October 23 2010, 12:31 AM 

Have I heard anyone say that "the KJV had no translation mistakes? I think not. However, it is the least influenced by denominational dogmatism.

We do not promote denominational dogma on this site. This site was initiated when it became evident that the Madison congregation had been infiltrated and subverted by culture-driven-church-growth scheme agents. The Madison congregation, beginning with its eldership, became divided. The sad and unfortunate experience should be a lesson to be learned by congregations not yet infiltrated. Call the New Testament way a "narrow, remnant theology"?

Calling the "Wall of Shame" list of churches that indulge in musical entertainment in the assembly "exclusive"? Maybe so. But if a congregation (usually at no fault of its own but its leadership) engages in activities that the Christian Church does, why not join that denomination? Or the Community Church when it "behaves" just like one?

Winterfest? I've heard of it! Isn't that where spiritual "entertainment" indoctrination begins? Isn't that where spiritual revolution against spiritual heritage [from their parents and how they were taught] is initiated?

Elders, beware!!! "The Change Agents Are Coming! The Change Agents Are Coming!"

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: Surprised

October 23 2010, 1:54 AM 

The last time I was at Winterfest was a few years ago. Seeing 12,000 teenagers with parents, ministers and elders from many states coming together to worship and learn about Christ was uplifting.

I recall the preacher had a great lesson on the 10 commandments. The lesson was about 50 minutes. Every adult and child in the room were blessed by it.

At the end, I heard Jeff Walling mention baptism about 18 times, which I thought was overkill, but probably because of those who say he does not believe or teach it.

God's Word was an "agent of change" as many souls dedicated their life to Christ, being immersed in the watery grave and raised to walk a new life.

-Sonny

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.150.114

Re: Surprised

October 23 2010, 9:01 AM 

In today's postmodern church, many people think they are "blessed" only if they experience adrenaline highs and emotional frenzy from the charismatic hysteria generated among large crowds ("group whoop") by praise teams and church-affiliated "fests" such as Winterfest. In other words, "fickle feelings" are a measure of "faith" in the Change Movement.

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

Working Off Tantrum

October 23 2010, 1:40 PM 

Excuse me......just taking a little time to work off my tantrum. Great suggestion, William Crump:)

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Praise God

October 23 2010, 4:56 PM 

for a "change movement" that involves the 10 Commandments being taught, Christ being preached, baptism being taught, and hundreds deciding to be baptized.

-Sonny

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

The 10 Commandments

October 23 2010, 6:09 PM 

That depends on the perspective -- and how it is taught.

Is there a recognition of the difference between the law of Moses and the law of Christ, the law of bondage and the royal law, the old covenant vs. the new covenant, etc? Hebrews 8, Galatians 6, James 2 and other passages deal with this subject.

Undoubtedly, with your knowledge of the Holy Scripture, you are aware of these truths. But again, I do not know what you are trying to suggest -- why and what about the 10 Commandments?


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Oct 23, 2010 6:15 PM


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.13.160

Re: Praise God

October 23 2010, 7:26 PM 

"Hundreds" can decide to be baptized based on the crowd's fickle feelings of faith. When the emotional frenzy is over (induced by praise teams and church-affiliated "fests"), many folks may have second thoughts about what they've done, because they really didn't give enough thought to what they did do; they were too busy being "caught up in the moment." Christ being preached and people being baptized should always be done in a sane, rational environement, where people may thoroughly digest what is being preached and not feel peer pressure from the crowd to "go with the flow." The decision to become a Christian should never be based on "group whoop."

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: Praise God

October 24 2010, 11:01 PM 

Dr. Crump,

I agree this is possible. For example, I have seen this with a few youth at church camp.

However, I also believe there can be large numbers to be baptized at once, and it not be "group whoop", such as 3,000 on Pentecost, an entire household, or the 12 in Acts chapter 19.

Do you agree?

-Sonny

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.141.16

Re: Praise God

October 25 2010, 12:52 AM 

The responses in Acts on Pentecost and in chapter 19 are a far cry from today's church-affiliated "fest" gatherings where, all too often, worldly "group whoop" reigns, yielding frenzied (questionable) "responses." At the risk of repeating myself, people are more likely to "go with the flow" if they can blend into a crowd than if they are alone. I doubt that the "I-want-to-be-baptized-because-all-my-friends-are-doing-it" mindset will wash.

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Me And My Grandchildren Go To Winterfest

October 26 2010, 6:12 PM 

Folks I am new to this site but feel a need to respond to some of the non-biblical remarks. I might be old but I am one man and grandfather who actually loves going each year to Winterfest with my grandchildren. What is wrong with it? Why is it wrong to express feelings and emotion in preaching or singing? What is so wrong about being happy and excited to praise God or to be baptized? The argument is apparently that Winterfest does not teach the Bible and baptism. When this is refuted the argument shifts to Mr. Crump's GROUP WHOOP for every occasion, every person and decision. I did not know Mr. Crump was God but you definitely act like it. Should we be sad about worshipping or sad about being baptized? Think about it........sometimes gospel meetings have been known especially in latter years to produce dozens of conversions on a given night, so just because others in a group are also being baptized does not negate all the baptisms even though a man says this to be so because it is judgment and opinion, not Bible. Why does there have to be so much negativity, cynicism and pettiness? You act so superior and go way beyond the Bible. Thankfully this toxic Christianity in the Church of Christ is becoming less and practiced only by a minority being negative and judgmental about practically everything. No I do not condone every change I have seen through the decades, but there are many wonderful Christians in the church, INCLUDING THOSE SEEN AND LABELLED AS LIBERAL. I don't plan to waste time getting in a long battle responding back and forth with you or anyone else so say whatever you want and that will be that.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet." Apparently this saying is still true with some Christians who want to split hairs about every matter of difference.



 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

A little Sugar with Your Medicine

October 26 2010, 10:10 PM 

The Truth is sometimes very very hard to swallow. Don't you agree William? Donnie? Ken?

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.251.242

Re: Me And My Grandchildren Go To Winterfest

October 26 2010, 11:01 PM 

Is Fred implying that children and teens (the principal targets of Winterfest) are more likely to be baptized based on experiencing the music, fun and games, and high-energy group rallies of Winterfest? If so, then Fred is implying that the stimulus to be baptized at Winterfest is actually based on the adrenaline highs and fickle feelings that the crowd experiences in what amounts to a carnival-like venue, where the GROUP WHOOP reigns. Can people truly become Christians based on peer pressure and the stimulus to "go with the flow" by being a part of the crowd? Although there seems to be a push to make the Gospel more "tasty" with the flavor of worldly county fairs and theaters, the New Testament admonishes us not to be conformed to the ways of the world:

"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Rom. 12:2 KJV).

"Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God" (James 4:4 KJV).

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

VBS AND CRAYONS - "CONCERN"?

October 27 2010, 12:36 AM 

Neither should we have VBS (being "friends with the world" and "group whoop") nor crayons in the classroom (this is "entertainment").

I guess the Jehovah's Witnesses have it wrong about 144,000 making it to heaven. If Brother Crump has his way it will not even be this many. sad.gif

Thanks be to God Brother Crump is not God and God is not Brother Crump.

-Sonny

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.26.155

Re: VBS AND CRAYONS - "CONCERN"?

October 27 2010, 10:40 AM 

Well, when Sonny resorts to hyperbole and asinine statements implying that I'm equal to or even better than God, I can only conclude that I've gotten under his skin and that's his way of retaliating. happy.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

Does William Remind of the Type?

October 31 2010, 4:09 PM 

When you hear someone say "....I can only conclude that I've gotten under his skin and that's his way of retaliating," then you would conclude that this person isn't into promoting the Truth or seeking to teach others about Jesus, but only about showing out like a child. This person is more interested into seeing if he gets under someone's skin.
Congratulations William Crump. Mission accomplished. You are behaving like a child.


 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.26.140

Re: Does William Remind of the Type?

October 31 2010, 6:38 PM 

"Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me" (Matt. 18:4-5 KJV).

Something to think about. happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.26.140

Re: Does William Remind of the Type?

October 31 2010, 7:05 PM 

Apparently I also get under Dave's skin. I have that effect on liberals and dissenters in the Church. BTW, that's not a boast. It's just a simple fact. happy.gif

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

Keep Trying!

October 31 2010, 8:41 PM 

William, there is a difference between getting under someone's skin and acting immature. Your immaturity is NOT what Jesus was asking us to emulate, when it comes to the attributes of a child. He was wanting us to latch onto their innocence.....but then again, William, I could understand you not understanding.
It is not the only thing you have missed when it comes to the Truth. You continue to make it up as you go instead of listening to our Lord.
Sorry William Crump, but there is no way to distort that one.......even with you.

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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