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Sonny's historical perspective

November 10 2010 at 11:14 AM
AM  (no login)
from IP address 75.89.66.220

After reading the last post I cannot help but notice one major item missing from the comparison of the reform movement and the change agents. Money!
Rubel Shelly and the others have found ways to promote church and build a business. Unlike the reformation movement that were just faithful men looking for the paths of truth, the new group are nice men with the contribution in mind. I cannot help when I listen to Lucado and think he is not trying to sell books, or Atchley or any of the other men when they ask to pass the plate for the lord when really it is a method to increase payroll or bankroll a building project. Are we just immune to why Jesus Cleansed the temple?

Also I had a chance to Google Rubel Shelly , since he was first on the list. His latest sermon is the Evils of science. Does he not know science "is an enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions of this world (definition from dictionary) or in other words reality? Would that not best define what Christianity and the Bible are all about that is reality? Sure, as with any topic including science, the message can be abused. Could he not have done a lesson on the Evils of paid church employees (preachers or even the staff at churches)? I believe there have been several references to infidelity of ministers on this site which he could research,and note that they are the paid men of God. He could probably be more knowledgeable and is closer to that subject matter. I am not accusing him of infidelity and I will not suggest that about him.

I guess the list of change agents just pointed out strongly to me that these guys are all on a payroll that comes from a collection plate. And they all are trying to market to a group that wants to indulge their preference for worship,and in some cases, not worship the way Jesus did. Can we not discuss the real problem with churches, that we are being directed NOT by the spirit filled but being directed the career climbers? Which does not compare to the men of the reformation movement.

 
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AuthorReply
Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

Re: Sonny's historical perspective

November 10 2010, 12:22 PM 

Sonny gets credit for bringing up a "historical perspective" [his own] of the church as this will certainly lead us to further review, investigate and discuss the various movements affecting the church that Jesus Christ established in the first century: Charismatic Movement, Contemporary Christian Music Movement, Community Church Movement, Change Movement (in the church of Christ), etc.

Regrettably, however, in that "historical perspective," the reader would be misled by the list of "Central Figures in the Reform ... Movement." The reference to "reformation" in that era was inaccurate. The "central figures" mentioned weren't even born during the Reformation Movement (of the Roman Catholic Church) of the 1500s.

Sonny's altered information concerning the movement was not [about] the Reformation Movement. Rather, it was the Restoration Movement in America. (Notice that the men listed were already in the denominational churches that resulted from the Reformation Movement.) The restoration principle was not to restore Roman Catholicism, but rather to restore the church of the first century, the New Testament church, and New Testament Christianity.

So, we should look at it, as AM suggests, from the perspective of what the "change agents" of the last few decades have been doing and whose activities have damaged the church.

 
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Scotyy
(no login)
75.53.145.80

Slander now allowed?

November 10 2010, 10:27 PM 

Recently the moderator stated that slander would not be allowed. It seems that what was meant is that slander is allowed for those the moderator disagrees with and forbidden when about preachers he does agree with.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Slander now allowed?

November 10 2010, 10:50 PM 

Where's the slander? What was forbidden or not allowed?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.27

History-Less Changed-Little

November 10 2010, 11:12 PM 

The most common RACA word is "thats just your tradition" or "that's our heritage."

Blackest of black lies.

Why do they tell those lies.

Well, Paul said in effect "Fools love to be fooled."

I have done a little housekeeping on My History of Instruments page.

If you can find ANYONE in church history who did not know that God condemned instruments as the MARK of those telling God to "shut your face."

http://www.piney.com/MuHistor.html

This is a rebuild of lists which have been collected: I have links to the actual scholars in many cases.

That's about as nitwitty as saying that "not doing naked dancing in worship" is just your tradition or heritage. What these evil end-time predicted people mean is that NOT bowing to Ball when the agents pipe is "a vile disease, more deadly than HIV that you caught from your godly parents."

Strong delusions means that they CANNOT read black text on white paper and the MARK is Lying Wonders which parses to Singing, clapping, pickin and grinnin CLAIMING to be doing it for God.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Scotyy

November 11 2010, 9:15 AM 

Donnie, You asked Scotyy....."Where's the slander? What was forbidden or not allowed?"

You have GOT to be kidding, right???

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

NOT kidding

November 11 2010, 1:09 PM 

No, Dave, I was not kidding. Speak for yourself -- I await Scotty's response.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.142.96

Re: NOT kidding

November 11 2010, 1:25 PM 

All Scotty has to do is read several of Dave's posts to see quite a variety of slander, insults, smear tactics, and character assassinations. Mote and beam, Dave, mote and beam.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Keep On Keeping On

November 11 2010, 1:49 PM 

Just remember boys.....you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all ofthe people all of the time.

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Keep On Keeping On

November 11 2010, 2:19 PM 

Dave,

The way you address posters in a condescending manner is a reflection of your "behavior gone wild." Would you like to be addressed as our "mother"?

 
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Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

Your Mother?!?!

November 14 2010, 12:33 AM 

Donnie,
I am still considering the request. It sounds intriguing. You certainly need someone to keep you in line. What about DAD???

 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Your Mother?!?!

November 14 2010, 2:21 AM 

That's how "Mother" addresses her "boys" to get their attention or whatever.... Does it take that long to consider my request? Actually, a request like that should not be necessary

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
67.142.130.18

Speaking of Mothers

November 14 2010, 6:19 PM 

The Beginning Babylon MOTHER of harlots is described so that Disciples of Christ will know her when he feels her.

In Revelation17 John defines the Babylon Mother of Harlots. The parallel is with Jerusalem being a city set on seven hills is called the mother of harlots as well as Sodom.

The connection is that after David's fatal sin God gave him Mount Zion on which he could build his own tent or tabernacle and make alternative sacrifices: after all, God had turned the whole nation over to worship the starry host.

Solomon built God a HOUSE in which He would be contained. But this was up on Moriah where God tested Abraham about human sacrifices and concluded GOD WILL PROVIDE. That did not stop Solomon to build at the home of the Canaanite "worship of the starry host."

The PATTERNISM for instruments is primarily 2 Chronicles 29 where they claim that God COMMANDED David's instruments. Because they got their pattern out of a lexicon, they missed the point that all of the sacrifices had been completed. THEN Solomon had the bright idea of offering a BURNT OFFERING of Goats for Israel--the already abandoned instrumental sect.

However, during this time the Scripture makes everything perfectly clear: the instruments were commanded by DAVID.

Then, Isaiah 1, Jeremiah 7 etal has Christ saying that GOD HAD NOT COMMANDED sacrifices or burnt offering.

So, guess what? when you hear the sounds of WIND, STRING AND PERCUSSION instruments it is the MARK in sight and sound of God ALREADY burning them up with their own mouth ready to cast into the lake of fire. Isaiah 30 defines it clearly. From the Zoe Group to professors at ACU, they are calling for God's Holy Fires to fall on them.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

The Bible is FILLED with clear proofs that when Christ sets up His synagogue there will be NO instrumental madness, as indeed there never was.

http://www.piney.com/Psalm.75.Rick.Atchley.Chris.Seidman.html

It is really true: when people refuse to turn to Christ for all of their songs and sermons, they are made BLIND and DEAF. (2 Corinthians 3). You could have Jesus show up and tell them that they are on a terminal, now-predestinated course and the strong delusions he sends them includes all of the performing arts.


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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