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B
(no login)
74.179.246.114

Re: Ukrainians and Russians Are Hungry for the Truth -- Let's Not Underestimate

January 12 2012, 11:38 PM 

Why do some contemporary churches meet on Saturday to observe the Lord's Supper? Are they trying to follow the Jewish calendar, which holds that each new day begins at sundown, therefore the first day of the week would begin on Saturday evening? If so, they follow the Gregorian calendar for everything except the Lord's Supper, for which they revert to the Jewish calendar. That sounds as odd as those Christians who follow the New Testament for everything except instrumental music, which they "justify" by dipping into the Old Testament and citing Psalm 150 or similar passages. Such people practice selective theology. Just as man cannot serve two masters--God and mammon--man also cannot serve two Covenants--the Old and the New.

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

"Selective Theology"

January 13 2012, 1:48 PM 

This is the best explanation Fred has ever read. BBBBBBeautiful Mr. B. This is a simple explanation and there are no holes in the argument. Some people also continue to practice the 10 Commandments so does that make them erroneous? DON'T PICK AND CHOOSE 9 OF 10 BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE "SELECTIVE THEOLOGY" SIR.

Fred Whaley

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Non-use of Musical Instruments Has Nothing to Do with "Selective Theology"

January 13 2012, 3:10 PM 

Fred,

There's nothing selective about the use/misuse of DEAD (inanimate, LIFELESS) musical devices in the assembly of LIVING SAINTS. [This might work well with Fred's scheme: play DEAD musical objects with the DEAD Catholic SAINTS -- if Fred insists.]

The use of DEAD musical instruments when saints gather is NOT EVEN AN OPTION.

The law of Moses including the 10 Commandments was nailed to the cross, and we are now under the law of Christ -- the law of LOVE: (1) loving God and (2) loving man.

Here's the response to your lousy "selecting-nine" argument. When the Christian obeys the commandment to LOVE -- he does not worship other gods; he does not kill; he does not covet; etc.; etc.; etc.

Thanks to the new covenant, the new law of LOVE -- for without it, the "thou shalt not kill" or the "thou shalt not covet" is not covered. And one thing for sure, the new law of LOVE does not include: "Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy." Perhaps, Fred still wants to observe that.


Poor Fred, think up of some more fallacious arguments.

 
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B
(no login)
74.179.246.112

Re: "Selective Theology"

January 13 2012, 4:06 PM 

Actually, Fred, the basic principles laid down in the "Ten Commandments" are NOT unique to Judaism. Most societies on this planet (even those that arose before Moses and the ancient Israelites) have a set of moral principles that deal with worshipping a deity/deities on certain days, murder, lying, theft, adultery, profanity/foul language, honoring parents, etc. etc. A similar set of basic moral principles are also found in Christianity today, but they are NOT unique to Christianity either. Just because Christians worship one God on the first day of the week instead of the seventh day does NOT mean we practice selective theology by "discarding" one of the so-called "Jewish Ten Commandments." Christ nailed all the tenets of the Old Law to the cross, which included seventh-day worship (Col. 2:14). Basic moral principles still apply, however.

Therefore, Fred, when you and others "justify" instrumental music by dipping into the Old Testament to cite Psalm 150 and similar passages, you DO practice "selective theology." Why not just follow what is written in the New Testament and stop trying to find loopholes to suit your own worldly desires?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
166.248.138.57

That's true about the commandments

January 14 2012, 5:07 PM 

The only spiritual covenant was made with Abraham through "God in Christ." The Law of Moses had no spiritual value. That is why Paul ignores the Law of Moses and the Laws of the Monarchy and speaks of Abraham. (Gal 3)

God gave Moses the ten commandments BEFORE Israel fell into idolatry.
Israel had "vowed" to obey The Book of The Covenant which spelled out those regulations while Israel was still patriarchal and which expanded the ten commandments. These commandments were pretty much universal althought often stated in a negative form.

After the fall at Mount Sinai God gave a SECOND LAW (deuteronomy) in addition too thee first covenant. This is called The Book of the Law which legislated the legalists. The "ten words" are RESTATED forthose living under LAW and were never restated as the preamble to the Covenant of Grace. The New Testament restates 9 of the 10 and ignors the mandatory REST day because Jesus became OUT rest: if you do hard bondage on the seventh day then you repudiate the REST Jesus(Joshua) gave which the first Joshua could not give. Seventh day WORSHIP is in fact about the vilest way you could reject the finished work of Jesus.

There were no MANDATORY sacrifices in The Book of the Covenant built on grace.

When Israel fell into musical idolatry the Tablets were broken and NEVER restated as they related to the Covenant of Grace.

God sentenced Israel to be led into Captivity and Death: when the elders fired God and demanded a king (senior preacher person) God "gave them kings in His anger" to carry out the penalty. The musicians (Levites) performed Soothsaying with instruments as part of Babylonianism. Believers can sing and twang without getting executed any time they wish--on their own like David.

All throughout the Old Testament Period the godly (Non Levites) attended the Church of Christ in the wilderness. This defined A school of the Word: the Campbells tried to restore A School of Christ. It was the Disciples/Christian churches who restored the old denominational structure the Campbells intended to replace.

In fact churches of Christ rememeber the REST day and keep it holy: that is why they do not do worship services meaning "hard bondage." The word Sabbath means REST and never a "worship service." IF people were forced to work 6 days DURING PLANTING and HARVEST then God commanded that they RESTED on the next day which was not related to the Jewish - Babylonian Astrology or worship of the starry host.

Many pagans--especially the sun worshipers actually PERFORMED RELIGIOUS services on the superstitious seventh day of the WEEK. The command to give people REST on the Sabbath day even defended WORK as "sending out ministers of God." Only the Babylon-Jerusalem cult held Sabbath services: Babylon was the source both of the seventh-DAY worship and the tithe.

Sure: remember the REST day and keep it holy by RESTING: No, Christians do not hold worship services on the REST day. The first day is the first day of WORK: those who have labored so hard to actually hold SABBATH DAY "WORSHIP" with music, preaching, collecting money are MARKED by Babylonianism just as the Jews lusted for and were abandoned to Babylonianism.

Apollo (Abaddon, Apollyon) who used the Locust or Musical Teams and other SUN gods were worshipped on the SEVENTH day of the Week. Isn't that a MARK or something?

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Ukrainians and Russians Are Hungry for the Truth -- Let's Not Underestimate

January 13 2012, 6:10 PM 

Interesting: About the Russians

I'm wondering if it has to do with the above title. But today, a comparison between the U.S. and Russia is astounding in terms of page views. Considering that there is a much higher number of Christians in the U.S. than in Russia, it is only a 56%:44% ratio in terms of page views between the two countries.

Watch!!! The strength and dedication and love for truth among Christians in the Russian Federation.



 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Ukrainians and Russians Are Hungry for the Truth -- Let's Not Underestimate

January 14 2012, 3:43 PM 

It's still a considerable number of page views from the Russian Federation as of now (today).

I would venture to say that the churches of Christ in Russia (as well as in other countries) are not severely affected by the distorted, divisive teachings of the liberal/progressive movers/discorders in the church.

Hopefully, our brethren in other countries will retain their knowledge and understanding of the simplicity of the gospel of Christ -- as well as the straightforward principles heralded by our Restoration Movement forefathers such as: "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent."

"This movement had its beginning when preachers of various denominations and in different parts of the U.S.A. recognised this sinful division existing among those who claimed to follow Christ and sought to unite all professed believers by renouncing denominational creeds and pleading for the New Testament as the only guide of faith and practice."

Now, we have the Change Agents in the brotherhood, in our midst, who are making a 180-degree turn away from the RM principles and from the New Testament guide, and back into denominationalism. What good is that for the New Testament church that Christ established?

There may come a time when churches of Christ abroad will be reminding us and teaching us what they have/had learned from the New Testament.

Greetings to congregations of the church of Christ in Barnaul, Biysk, Moscow, Perm, Rostov, St. Petersburg, and other cities!!!

 
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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Ukrainians and Russians Are Hungry for the Truth -- Let's Not Underestimate

January 16 2012, 1:55 PM 

Here's some unusual news. I've been monitoring page views quite a bit lately, since I noticed a few days ago the unusually high number of page viewers from the Russian Federation.

As of today at the time of this posting (and the time difference may have some bearing), the number of page views is 53%-to-47% in favor of Russia over the U.S. Perhaps, the brethren in the Russian churches are so bonded together that they keep one another informed. As the hymn says, "Blest be the tie that binds our hearts in Christian love."

I'm reminded of a very popular 1966 American comedy film I haven't even seen: "The Russians Are Coming, the Russians Are Coming." I'm intrigued by such an unusual title. I'll explain it below:

One will notice on the index page a thread I initiated a while back titled:


A NEW BIG PICTURE: THE CHANGE AGENTS ARE COMING! THE CHANGE AGENTS ARE COMING!


This time, however, it is a clear warning to congregations of the church of Christ Jesus to not welcome those agents of change who seek to infiltrate, subvert, divide, conquer and acquire once-peaceful congregations.

 
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Arthur H.
(no login)
50.53.18.172

First time viewer

April 30 2014, 1:24 PM 

This is my first time ever coming across this site. I am a member of a non-institutional, non-instrumental, very conservative church of Christ and have been for almost 9 years. As far as credentials go, I've been a preacher-in-training with 2 different congregations' programs, and I still preach frequently. That being said, I am studying these (instrumental music and other) topics with new eyes for the purpose of better serving God. I found Jay Guin's blog before I found this forum, so I'm probably coming from a slightly different perspective than the other participants in this discussion. I understand the purpose of this discussion, and it's for the benefit of this discussion and the edification of the participants that I'm saying what I'm about to say.

1) I've read plenty of Jay Guin's articles on his blog, oneinjesus.info. If I were you, I'd read some as well before engaging in attacking him or even his arguments. This is true for absolutely any individual who teaches something different than what you do. If you read his articles (and probably others with whom you disagree), you'll find that they aren't all motivated by a desire to destroy the church, steal souls, and gain through sordid means. Further, you may find a much better defence on his site of his position than a defence of his position you'll find on a forum like this.

2) Seeing how participants treat one another on this site is extremely discouraging. I understand (and appreciate) the desire to defend the truth and maintain the purity of the church, but where does sarcasm fit into that? Where does attacking character, motives, and grammar/punctuation fit into that? I'd be careful of how you respond in settings like these, because someone, potentially someone looking for truth and relief who is dying in their sin, can come and see the opposite of "the servant of the Lord... correcting his opponents with gentleness (2 Tim 2:24-25)."

Grace and peace,
Arthur

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: First time viewer

April 30 2014, 2:25 PM 

We let attackers attack: the manly thing to do. Jay Guin will not let you post even a single verse if it does not support his agenda.

There are only two attack agents who refute eveything posted by the moderators. You will notice the two going at me in the provocative post about FABLES. If you quote any of the historic documents which parallel the Bible they call you Nazis etc. You will notice that the two respondents wont respond to the scholarly quotes defining fables, myths: one, an elder, does not know that he defends "Jewish fables."

Jay is a Doctor of the Law and he writes very good briefs. Unfortunately, he doesn't use scripture in context and just makes raw assertions. The two moderators post text in context, the ways words are used in the Greek, Latin and Hebrew literature and almost always post recorded literature and views of the historic scholars to show how the words are used. For instance, the word PSALLO upon which the instrumentalists intending and actually "infiltrating" your School of the Word into "a theater for holy entertainment." However, Psallo means pluck something with your fingers but never with a plectrum or guitar pick. It has absolutely no musical content. Jay Guin has supported many who claim that psallo DEMANDS instruments.

You are welcomed to post any of Jay's views but expect that we will examine the context which is considered negative.

Jay opposes any and all views held by the historic churches of Christ.

You were right all along: if you build an institution then Satan will come and take it away from you.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 172.243.203.84 on Apr 30, 2014 2:35 PM


 
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William
(no login)
108.28.131.243

Re: First Time Viewer

May 2 2014, 2:51 AM 



Arthur: Most who read this site are pretty familiar with Jay Guinn and his like. Most of us do not disagree with everything he and other "progressives" say. But there is much to disagree about, and the fact is, as has been pointed out on this site in many places, they are stealing congregations. There are already Baptist Churches and Christian Churches and Community Churches. If you follow Jay Guinn's link to Rubel Shelly, for instance, you will find that he is now more or less aligned with the Independent Christian Churches. Shelly stole a school which was founded and nurtured by some rather conservative brethren. I cannot fathom how one associated with "conservative" churches of Christ can fit in Jay Guinn.
We also discover that some throw about words intended to be positive or negative with no real meaning behind them. What does Guinn mean by "progressive", anyway. And "Nazi" and "Fascist" are mere school yard taunts with about the same sophistication.
So there are always areas of disagreement or areas of peculiar interpretation. I for instance, do not conclude that Paul was saying that we cannot choose, as a congregation, to decide where to do good with the funds we collect or that we cannot meet in fellowship that involves food, but I have a reasonable respect for those who have come to that conclusion.
The real crux of the matter is how much pagan overlay are we going to permit in order to draw people to the church. Now there is a word that can be debated: church. Apparently, the term we would translate from Greek to English as "assembly" really does not convey the formality, the power if you wish, of the term in Greek. So I conclude that the word "church" is appropriate to use because it conveys more a meaning of special assembly, although I suspect that it has indeed descended from Circe (Kirke).
As for the tenor of the comments on this site, the bear baiting and the dogs that are let loose, it is what they do, sometimes at a rather high literary level. But you can learn here.

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.244.68

Re: First Time Viewer

May 2 2014, 7:36 AM 

It's theoretically possible to "learn" here, if you can wade through the mythology, fairy tales, fables, and the endless references to musikators and the starry host. Also, that bit about nazis and fascists has a nice ring to it. happy.gif

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.210.49

Perfection in All things

April 30 2014, 2:38 PM 

As Jesus says, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matt. 5:48 KJV). This means striving for perfetion in ALL things, which includes your spiritual life, your home life, your job--and yes, even your English spelling and grammar. happy.gif

As far as all the sarcasm and personal attacks among posters on this site, it's just natural that when people get together to talk "religion," not everyone is gonna agree with all the different perceptions and interpretatons of the Bible. Some participants are more tolerant, whereas those whom I call "spiritual nazis" are bent on hammering their beliefs into their opponents' heads, come what may. If those opponents do not knuckle under and conform, the spiritual nazis condemn them as blasphemers and anti-Christs. I guess you could say that's just the nature of the "beast." happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Perfection in All things

April 30 2014, 2:44 PM 

See what I mean?

 
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Bill
(no login)
74.179.12.155

Re: Perfection in All things

April 30 2014, 4:19 PM 

So, Ken, you're saying that you're very familiar with those spiritual nazis who call their opponents blasphemers and anti-Christs?

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
172.243.203.84

Re: Perfection in All things

April 30 2014, 4:41 PM 

Yes, this is a good example;

I quoted John to say that the NAME of the another comforter is Jesus Christ the righteous in His Holy (wholly) Spirit State. Therefore the Spirit OF God is not another people. There goes your trinity as polytheism.

I quoted John who said that if you deny that:

1. There is one God [Theos] the Father
2. And Jesus as the one Lord [Kurios] as the SON of the FATHER. And the ONE GOD THE FATHER made Jesus of Nazareth TO BE Lord and Christ.
3. You are an antichrist.

This is the pattern: I quote the Biblical Text and you say THEREFORE you believe this and this and this.



 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.197.222.189

Jay Guin List of Reviews (partial)

October 8 2014, 11:57 AM 



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 99.197.222.189 on Oct 8, 2014 5:12 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.197.222.189

Jay Guin and friends DANCING IN WORSHIP: their destiny

October 11 2014, 10:28 PM 

In Isaiah 3 Christ warned that women and BOYS would rule over you: boys are the effeminate and perverted. They PIPED hoping that Jesus would lament and dance the Dionysus (Apollon) dance being initiated into the gay priesthood: historians noted that the Jews hoped that Dionysus would be their Messiah.

Boys: Effemino II.Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate, A.Womanish, effeminate,
Histrio, stage-player, actor, mimus, boaster, used with
-Scaena, 1. Of a place like a scene of a theatre, school of rhetoric, display of eloquence.

Outlawed in Romans 15

B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Cinaedos: a sodomite, catamite, one who dances publicly

Matt. 11:8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold,
they that wear soft [Catamites] clothing are in kings’ houses.
Matt. 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation?
It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matt. 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and YE HAVE NOT DANCED;
we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.


The Stark-Warlick Debate was one of the earliest definition of Worship by the Christian Churches defining those who would not participate with them as SONS OF PERDITION. Of course it is a lie: Churches of Christ were never part of the Dancing Disciples--Christian Churches:

Stark In the Stark Warlick Debate, thought of worship as the emotion of the soul and that it might "produce singing, shouting, praising, leaping, dancing, hand clapping, or thanksgiving and such should not be suppressed by man made rules."

DAVID YOUNG handled by the ADCOX group [KAIROS demon son of Zeus: STRIKES at just the right time] wants to restore the cane ridge witchcraft and adds HUGGING AND KISSING. Not me buster.

http://www.piney.com/Stark.Warlick.Debate.God.Authorizes.Instruments.Music.html

Jay Guin etal still promote the Disciples of Christ movement: the Christian churches became a SECTARIAN SPLIT from the Disciples. It is pretty dishonest that once-Christian colleges are BANDED with the NACC REprograming young preachers to fall into musical idolatry. Kairos Tim is right. The Synagogue of Christ was PROMISED a time like this and the elect will be tempted to blood: how more evil than to lie, cheat and steal the church house and families of a congregation and tell the LAITY to "get over it or get out." They WOULD and maybe WILL kill you in the name of UNITY.

Following the pattern of Jeff Walling, Jay Guin beloved by those who cannot read the Biblical text proven by their songs and sermons writes ENCOURAGES all of his SECT to DANCE while someone PIPES

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.Dancing.in.Worship.html

If Jeff Walling's Dancing "teaching YOUR youth to leave YOUR movement and transistion to the NACC at Winterfest." If this doesn't leave you a quart low on testesterone you have a problem even Plato noted of religious performers.

http://www.piney.com/worship1.html

JAY GUIN:
You see, CENI is not only a rationalization for doing what we want, it’s also a mechanism for protecting us from the Spirit’s annoying habit of leading where the members aren’t ready to go. Anyone can cobble together a CENI-based argument against anything.

That's lying to God and about God.

That's proof that only a tiny few of men seeing godlines as a means of financial gain and therefore they must bundle closely.

http://www.piney.com/Commands.Examples.and.Necessary.Inferences.html

JAY GUIN:
Maybe we should move the pews further apart so we have room to prostrate ourselves before God. Maybe we should even leave a dance floor, to properly celebrate the return of God to his people and the coming of the Kingdom and the good news of the Kingdom of heaven.

That's where the CONSUMING FIRES BREAK OUT as promoted by the ZOE GROUP and ACU professors and expert visitors.
Jay Quin and ALL who promote the Abandoned-to-Babylon David's Naked dance can never grasp that all WORSHIP SERVICES replaced by the SCHOOL of the prophets and apostles ONLY gave the right to BUY and SELL to whose willing to expose their "wannabe" person.

[linked image]


Worship team robes or clergy garb worn by the Pope and daughter churches (Kairos Planted). The always-pagan trinities consist of father, mother (spirit) and infant son: Osiris, Isis and Horus worshipped under the symbol of the golden calf at mount sinai for which there was no redemption: next step back to Babylon as the now "christian" wing of ISIS mother goddes worshipped by th emasculated. The "mother godesses" were strangly male: Osiris lost his penis and Isis had to give birth all by herself with the DEAD "father figure" who is deliberately EMASCULATED by trinitarians worshiping Mary the mother of gods and beasts.

That is why God gave ALL of the authority vested in the always-pagan trinities to Jesus Christ. When you see the Son you see the Father so that Scripture goes to extremes to prevent any reading disciple from falling back into pagan polytheism enjoyed at Jerusalem after God abandoned them to worship the starry HOSTS.

[linked image]

[linked image]


JAY GUIN ETALBut only a few. Most of those present are, for reasons they don’t understand, trapped in a legalistic, culturally and emotionally stunted form of expression. They feel its wrongness in their cores, but don’t know how to escape. In fact, they worry that it might somehow be wrong to give into these Spirit-prompted impulses.

In other words, how can you encourage someone else (the voice is active)? One approach is to recognize that in your congregation there is a new spirit/Spirit of worship emerging. Members are slowly becoming more expressive. They are feeling free to feel the words, to truly mean the lyrics.


Abaddon or Apollyon EMERGES from the pits of hell as the Musical Worship Spirit of the EMERGING locusts who are the LOCUSTS. Jesus told some of us that God HIDES from the sophists: speakers for hire, singers, instrument players and grinders or prostitutes selling or displaying various body parts.

Spiritus Spirit in both Hebrew and Greek speaks of a WIND sometimes a violent blast, breathing or gentle blowing of air, a breath, breeze, 2.The breath of a god, inspiration:

When PERSONIFIED only of:

II.B. The "spritit" of Phoebus [Abaddon, Apollyon] or Carmenae (the Muses), spirit of a loud tone, a tempest, of the tympana horrificis, runinis exciting terror of loud thundering speech, thundererer, god of thunder, Saturn as the sickle bearer. KAIROS is Saturn: time to THRUST IN THE SICKLE AND REAP THE "FRUITS."

The SPIRIT in Ephesians 5 is the WORD of Christ (regulative principle) in Colossiand 3.

Hebrews 12 warned of the FINAL shaking which includings singing, clapping and DANCING to remove those things which CANNOT be induced to shake and clap that unless they honor god with reverence and godly fear that GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE

FIRE and INSTRUMENTS are always connected as the CAUSE but usually the MARK that Jesus has been there and removed the craftsmen (parasites), singers and instrument players along with the LAMPS (Isaiah 11 seven spirits OF Divine knowledg) and the SORCERERS along with liars and "dogs" will be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE Just as the Spirit OF Christ issued the Prophetic Type in Isaiah 33 where the SOUNDS of musical instruments (as in Revelation 14) are those of God driving His enemies into HELL.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

JAY GUIN ETAL.
The church leaders are not going to shut down a little clapping or hands-raising, but neither are they going to push these new postures either. “Let the Spirit lead where it wills” would be a common attitude for a transitional church such as this one.

The Name of the Holy Spirit COMFORTER is Jesus Christ the Righteous: He said that HIS WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE. Therefore, says Christ in Isaiah 8 if they do not SPEAK the Word of God it is because THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

John says that if you deny the ONE GOD THE FATHER and ONE SON needing no third person for a God they claim is DISABLED are called ANTICHRISTS

In Ephesians 4 any APT elder will by definition and DIRECT COMMAND cast out the cunning craftsmen or SOPHISTS meaning "rhetorid for hire, singers or instrument playrs" in a religious place. God hides from them and ANY apt elder will eject them says Paul because THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

The church or ekklesia consists of any saved person able to teach others. When THEY assemble themselves--never more than once a week--it is called a SYNAGOGUE.

The Synagogue was to PROTECT the godly from the blowing winds and hail going on in the always-pagan WORSHIP CENTERS with a one-piece pattern defined over and over: Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word of God.

Of those churches where everyone wanted to sing their own stuf Paul said that your SYNAGOGUES do more harm than good. That's why this writer never intends to let the THIEVES steal in and rob my "gift to the lord" when their agenda is to DIVERT God's "money"into a theater for holy entertainment.

The ONLY meaning of a legalists in the Greek world were those God HIDES from: speakers for hire, singers, instrument players, actors, dancers and "companions" in ALL religionism. They must be "destined," learn, practice, rehearse full time, perform publically and be JUDGED by very STRICT nomos or Laws. These were hypocritic or parasitic professions and only the lowest classes performed in public.

The SPIRIT in Ephesians 5 is the WORD of Christ (regulative principle) in Colossiand 3.

Hebrews 12 warned of the FINAL shaking which includings singing, clapping and DANCING to remove those things which CANNOT be induced to shake and clap that unless they honor god with reverence and godly fear that GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE

FIRE and INSTRUMENTS are always connected as the CAUSE but usually the MARK that Jesus has been there and removed the craftsmen (parasites), singers and instrument players along with the LAMPS (Isaiah 11 seven spirits OF Divine knowledg) and the SORCERERS along with liars and "dogs" will be CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE Just as the Spirit OF Christ issued the Prophetic Type in Isaiah 33 where the SOUNDS of musical instruments (as in Revelation 14) are those of God driving His enemies into HELL.

http://www.piney.com/Isa30LXX.html

JAY GUIN ETAL.
The church leaders are not going to shut down a little clapping or hands-raising, but neither are they going to push these new postures either. “Let the Spirit lead where it wills” would be a common attitude for a transitional church such as this one.

The Name of the Holy Spirit COMFORTER is Jesus Christ the Righteous: He said that HIS WORDS are SPIRIT and LIFE. Therefore, says Christ in Isaiah 8 if they do not SPEAK the Word of God it is because THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.

John says that if you deny the ONE GOD THE FATHER and ONE SON needing no third person for a God they claim is DISABLED are called ANTICHRISTS

In Ephesians 4 any APT elder will by definition and DIRECT COMMAND cast out the cunning craftsmen or SOPHISTS meaning "rhetorid for hire, singers or instrument playrs" in a religious place. God hides from them and ANY apt elder will eject them says Paul because THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE.

The church or ekklesia consists of any saved person able to teach others. When THEY assemble themselves--never more than once a week--it is called a SYNAGOGUE.

The Synagogue was to PROTECT the godly from the blowing winds and hail going on in the always-pagan WORSHIP CENTERS with a one-piece pattern defined over and over: Rest, Read and Rehearse the Word of God.

Of those churches where everyone wanted to sing their own stuf Paul said that your SYNAGOGUES do more harm than good. That's why this writer never intends to let the THIEVES steal in and rob my "gift to the lord" when their agenda is to DIVERT God's "money"into a theater for holy entertainment.





 
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Ken Sublett
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ConcernedMembersMadison
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Jay Guin The Holy Spirit and Revolutionary Grace

June 6 2016, 12:23 PM 

Jay Guin has about taken over Wineskins.org which died and after a few days was resurrected by Matt Dabbs as Wineskins.org.

http://www.piney.com/Jay.Guin.HolySpirit.Revolutionary.Grace.html

Jay thinks that HE is guided by A spirit PERSON but we have noted that the PERSONIFIED SPIRIT is called ABADDON-APOLLON and minions such as HERMES-KAIROS. The Grace-Centered claim is a God-forced confession that WE WILL SIN but GRACE will be forced to approve us.

New Wineskins Magazine was the "organ" of the end-time launch of the final Jubilee by Rubel Shelly and Mike Cope or Jeff Walling. David Young's A New Day, the Kairos Church, Jubilee, New wineskins or any of the FLOOD being poured out against everyone BUT them.

Matt Dabbs defines Postmodernism by denying that Church can be defined by Scripture which has been replaced by A New Hermeneutic (Hermes or Kairos is the ANTI-Christian Word or Logos). Old scholarship and the Lexicons should be replaced by MODERN definitions of words. Even the text with Jay Guin as a good example can be shuffled to write his own NARRATIVE. This view that a document read by Jesus can not be read by YOU without scholarly interpretation of what WOULD HAVE BEEN if Jesus had a Phd is "scholarship" to them but the MARK of Strong Delusions for anyone who got past Card Class, slow ones of the slow group.

The NEW PLOTS or patterns are replaced with MANY MORE new pieces and more STAFF to make certain that your time and money is directed all week to the LORD. After they pray for their agenda for 40 days you would be evil to question their anointing. We noted of literate Greek society they would pour HONEY over your head and cover you with cotton or feathers instead of letting them dwell in your midst. Jesus Christ as HOLY SPIRIT told the APT ELDERS to eject the cunning craftsmen or Sophists meaning self-authoring hirelings, singers or instrument players. HE SAYS and you can DENY that THEY ARE LYING IN WAIT TO DECEIVE. In the Bible and other literature MUSIC was used to SET AN AMBUSH.

The Spirit OF Christ defined Messiah's ANOTHER DAY as for REST which is used to STOP everything you paid for yesterday Purpose Driven to Prevent the One-Piece Pattern where Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT is still the head over His Body: to claim that His Body is a New Wineskin fitted for leven-fermenting so it can EXPAND to include everyone BUT the Li'l Ole Wine Makers is called BLASPHEMY.

In prophecy the COVERT is an UMBRELLA. The Wineskinners believe that the Temple was a WORSHIP CENTER but the Temple repudiated God who dwelled in tents with His people.

God promised David a TENT or FAMILY
BUT, Solomon built God a HOUSE
BUT, God does not will in HOUSES built by human hands.
BUT, God is not worshipped by the WORKS of human hands: raising, pointing, clapping, picking or beating on drums of delusion.

Isaiah 4: 6 And there shall be a TABERNACLE for a shadow in the daytime from the heat,
and for a place of REFUGE, and for a COVERT from storm and from rain.

Umbrācŭlum , I. any thing that furnishes shade). I Lit., a shady place, bower, arbor, a SCHOOL: “in solem et pulverem, ut e Theophrasti DOCTISSIMI hominis umbraculis,” “ex umbraculis eruditorum in solem atque in pulverem,” id. Leg. 3, 6, 14.—II. A sunshade, parasol, umbrella,

Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city PREACH them that him,
.....being READ in the synagogues every sabbath day.


The Levites and the MIXED MULTITUDE allowed among the Israelites rose up AGAINST God and challenged Him by instrumental-trinitarian-sexual idolatry. The World's OLDEST professional emotionally and sexually abnormal was a PRAISE SINGER and pretended that the SIMPLE MINDED who could be led into a religious "experience" was really leading them into a KNOWING PRESENCE OF GOD. The End-Time praise singing is confessed to producing a sexual-like climax with "a" spirit: this is just before the LAST act of Worship as Giving of Substance. Modern Apostates try to stand on the streets seducing people into their parlor.

DEBUNKING the period of the Kings Set Over Us as a PATTERN for any kind of "singing", Moses promised ANOTHER PROPHET like Him who WOULD be heard by a Little Flock which HE called OUT of the Megas or Multutides to REST and LEARN OF ME. If they try to sell THEIR self-authoring songs or sermons Paul and the Civil Greek society called them prostitutes. They were not permitted to sell songs and speeches and in modern terms were tarred and feathered and rode across the county line.

Jesus said that He spoke only what God breathed (spirit) into Him without metron or METER. There is no MUSIC in the SCHOOL which would and does destroy the REST, NOT by command in the Church of Christ (the Rock), never recorded in the synagogue, never practiced nor commanded by Jesus, never practiced or commanded in any of the recorded assemblies, never in the historic church beyond the MONKS and never in any Catholic or Protestant church until after Calvin allowed some Psalms-only to be REWRITTEN and set to a simple melody to be sung in unison only.

2Cor. 3:14 But their minds were BLINDED:
.....for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away
.....in the READING of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Col. 4:16 And when this epistle is READ among you,
.....cause that it be READ also in the church of the Laodiceans;
.....and that ye likewise READ the epistle from Laodicea.

Mark 1:21 And they went into Capernaum;
.....and straightway on the sabbath [REST] day
.....he entered into the synagogue, and TAUGHT.
Mark 6:2 And when the SABBATH [rest] day was come,
.....he began to TEACH in the synagogue:
.....and many hearing him were astonished, saying,
.....From whence hath this man these things?
.....and what wisdom is this which is given unto him,
.....that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up:
.....and, as his custom was,
.....he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day,
.....and stood up for to READ.
Luke 6:6 And it came to pass also on another sabbath,
.....that he entered into the synagogue and TAUGHT:
.....and there was a man whose right hand was withered.
Luke 13:10 And he was TEACHING in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.
Luke 13:14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation,
.....because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day,
.....and said unto the people,
.....There are six days in which men ought to work:
.....in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.
Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga,
.....they came to Antioch in Pisidia,
.....and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
Acts 13:15 And after the READING of
.....the law and the prophets
.....the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them,
.....saying, Ye men and brethren,
.....if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.


Jesus promised "another" Comforter (paraklete) different in that Jesus would be HOLY SPIRIT: He said I will come to you.

Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT returned and "poured out what could be SEEN and HEARD. He promised to guide THEM into all truth. That does not include any one living today.

John said that the Comforter or Paraklete would bear the name Jesus Christ the Righteous.

Eye and ear witnesses like Peter wrote for our MEMORY and outlawed any further expounding.

Jesus is our Intercessor but in Romans 16 the PATTERN was to "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our LEARNING." Or "Scripture for our Comfort or Paraklete.

In the SYNAGOGUE the one piece pattern was to PREACH the Word (regulative principle) by READING the Word. The people were given a word of comfort and went home.

1Tim. 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.


Within each section of the well-documented practice of reading a portion of the SCRIPTURES ONLY each REST day which was not 24/7. You don't need a Phd to carry out the direct command, the example of Jesus, the commands of the Apostles and the early historic church.

The "progressives" almost always pick one of their favorite books to use to KEEP THE LAMBS DUMB and the head of the Church silenced. That's fine. They are ORDAINED FROM OLD and are filling up their wrath.

g3874. paraklesis, par-ak´-lay-sis; from 3870; imploration, hortation, solace: — comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty.

Those who see godliness as a means of financial gain are really pulling off lying wonders with almost no elder able to tell the LAMBS that there is no example of any kind of MUSIC when you hold SCHOOL for straight adults.



    
This message has been edited by Ken.Sublett from IP address 184.63.180.96 on Jun 6, 2016 11:09 PM


 
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Ken Sublett
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Lynn Anderson, Mike Cope, John T. Willis leaders of the PACK

June 7 2016, 12:04 PM 

The Lynn Anderson (honored by LU) and Family twisting the elders at Oak Hills Church of Christ now with CHRIST removed from their public confession.

http://www.piney.com/Anderson.Psallo.2.html

Lynn Anderson Family:
I. The Question: What Kind of Worship is Pleasing to God?

While WE want to be considerate of feelings and comfort zones, WE should be much more interested in being obedient to God and considering what He desires. “Am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.” Gal.1:10. Rather than asking what kind of worship WE are comfortable with, each of us should be asking what kind of worship is PLEASING to God.


God DOESN'T NEED YOU, LADY!

This is the mark of STRONG DELUSIONS which means that God will BLIND you and make you DUMB if you lie about His revelation.

Gal. 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven,
preach any other gospel unto you than that which WE HAVE PREACHED unto you, let him be accursed.


g331. anathema, an-ath´-em-ah; from 394; a (religious) ban or (concretely) excommunicated (thing or person): — accused, anathema, curse, x great.

Anathema is any person or thing which has been DEVOTED to God claiming that they or it can ADORN their presumed "holy place" or "worship center" CANNOT BE REDEEMED AND MUST BE BURNED.

Their musical idolatry is NOT the sin: musical and especially instrumental "songs in the temple" is, as in Amos 8, a sign that GOD HAS BEEN THERE AND WILL NEVER PASS BY THEIR AGAIN. In Revelation 18 the "lusted after fruits" as priests of the Babylon Mother Goddess are called SORCERERS who HAD deceived the whole world once. Jude includes the instrumental-trinitarian idolatry at Mount Sinai. That includes ANY craftsperson, singer, instrument player where techne includes "theater builders and performers" and even prostitutes pointed to by the brides or NYMPHS and the GRINDERS making a PIPING SOUND. BEAST is "a new style of music or satyric drama" so the muses aka LOCUSTS are marking those CAST ALIVE INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.. The priests of the mother goddess must be emasculated and therefore too timid to respond to quoting the simple text.

The female infiltrator and diverter may literally not be able to read the context.

Gal. 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the GOSPEL which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal. 1:12 For I neither RECEIVED it of man, neither was I TAUGHT it, but by the REVELATION of Jesus Christ.


The Gospel is the Gospel OF the Kingdom which is defined in prophecy and fullfillment both INCLUSIVELY and EXCLUSIVELY. This is the MARK of those Paul silenced: women who fell into madness including "praise singing" sold themselves as speaking FOR the gods. Paul's GOSPEL silenced both men and women and let Jesus do the VOCAL PART if you just happen to have APT elders Jesus as HOLY SPIRIT identified as the only pastor-teachers commanded to teach that which had been taught. The feminists as in Spiritual Formation use Lectio-Divina: Their DIVINA is the Thessalian witch. of sorcerers, bring down from the sky. hairein, take and carry off. Therefore, She is the HERETIC or SECTARIAN infiltrating and stealing your property for HERSELF. She might look like a male!

WE WILL POST THE ONE-PIECE PATTERN OF READING THE WORD FOR COMFORT AND DOCTRINE. Anything beyond that lets the Cunning Craftsmen or Sophists "infiltrate and divert" as they boast. First, UPSETTING comfort zones by bringing the ROCK AND ROLL sound and PERSONA into the church is OF BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS and time may be short.

God said that He is SPIRIT and cannot be worshipped in houses built by human hands or by the WORKS of human hands. God ABANDONED the Jewish CLERGY to worship the starry host including Apollon-Abaddon in a temple God did not command and at which He declared that He was now OFF LIMITS.

Jesus said that the Kingdom (Church as school) does not come with OBSERVATION: that means religious observations. PURE religion is to take care of people IMpure religion or Threskia defines the ANDERSON ORGY including Rock and Roll.

Acts 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria,
.....and were edified; [EDUCATED the one-piece pattern]
.....and walking in the FEAR of the Lord,


GODLY FEARg5401. phobos, fob´-os; from a primary fe÷bomai phebomai (to be put in fear); alarm or fright: — be afraid, + exceedingly, fear, terror.

Heb. 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that SPEAKETH. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb. 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, [DISCOMFORTED]
.....let us have GRACE,
.....whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb. 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Arousal singing, playing, clapping or anything above SILENCE is the effort of the PREDESTINED (Jude) to MOVE or Shake you which includes ANYTHING above quiet reverence while the WORD is PREACHED by being READ for our COMFORT and DOCTRINE. Paul's corrupting the WORD and Greek Civil society called selling your own poems, songs or speeches at RETAIL, prostitution. Religious music and musicians have universally said to be "drunk, perverter or just mocking in fun."

g127. aidos, ahee-doce´; perhaps from 1 (as a negative particle) and 1492 (through the idea of downcast eyes); bashfulness, i.e. (towards men), modesty or (towards God) awe: — reverence, shamefacedness. 1492 includes perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand

The Spirit OF CHRIST warned about David's AWAKING the Dawn by AWAKENING his Lyre:

Hab. 2:19 Woe unto him that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall TEACH! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no BREATH at all in the midst of it.
Hab. 2:20 But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the earth keep silence before him.

Paul told BOTH men and women to be SILENT other than "that we might all be SAFE and come to a knowledge of THE TRUTH or THE WORD. Men who claim to preach the WORD but do not are guilty of SELF-AUTHORIING and are therefore NOT APT.

CHRIST ORDAINED FEAR SILENCESSILEO “quiesco): et cycnea mele Phoebeaque Carmina consimili ratione oppressa silerent, Lucr. 2, 506: “silent diutius Musae Varronis quam solebant,”

mĕlos limb by limb, a tune, air, strain, song, lay 2. music to which a song is set, tune, Arist.Po.1450a14; opp. rhuthmos, metron, Pl.Grg. 502c; opp. rhuthmos, rhēma, Id.Lg.656c; Krētikon, Karikon, 3. melody of an instrument, “phormigx d' au phtheggoith' hieron m. ēde kai aulos

Phoebe is APOLLON the OPPOSITE of Godly Fear. CARMEN “per me (sc. Apollinem) concordant carmina nervis,” “citharae liquidum carmen, “barbaricum,” id. M. 11, 163.—With allusion to playing on the cithara:

cȳcnēus
the mark of the Cynics or DOGS in their SWAN SONG. in Stopping the RATIONAL counseling RATIO of the LOGOS
course, conduct, procedure, mode, manner, method, fashion,

Rom. 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1Cor. 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.


 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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