Place your banner ad here.          See all banner ads

|| ConcernedMembers.com || About || Links Library || Help Warn Others ||
|| Madison Church of Christ || Richland Hills Church of Christ || Hillcrest Church of Christ || More Churches || Sunday School in Exile ||

Where is my NewThisWeek Email subscription?Click Here

Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

God's Wall Of Honor

November 15 2010 at 9:01 PM
Sonny Elliot  (no login)
from IP address 99.186.93.107

This article is NOT man's opinion but rather GOD'S scathing rebuke DIRECTLY from HIS holy and divine WORD toward "ALL" change agents who have adulterated GOD'S WORD through leaving the old paths of New Testament Christianity. If the change agents (Rubel Shelly, Max Lucado, Leroy Garrett, John Mark Hicks, Joe Beam, Rick Atchley, Al Maxey, John York, Mike Cope, Ronnie Norman, Jay Guin, etc.) do not REPENT and adhere to these SCRIPTURES they shall never be preachers on God's Wall Of Honor in the Lamb's Book Of Life and shall be condemned to hellfire for "ALL" ETERNITY.

1. Honoring their parents - Exodus 20:12 "honor your father and your mother" (also Deut. 5:16 and Eph 6:2)

2. Honoring God - 1 Samuel 2:30 "Those who honor me(God) I will honor"

3. Honoring God with their wealth - Proverbs 3:9 "honor the LORD with your wealth"

4. Honoring others - Romans 12:10 "honor one another above yourselves"

5. Honoring God with their body - 1 Corinthians 6:20 "therefore honor God with your body" (also 1 Thess. 4:4)

6. Honoring their marriage - Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage should be honored by all"

7. Honorable living in every way - Hebrews 13:18 "and desire to live honorably in every way"

Change agents need to WAKE UP!

Romans 14:11 "And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to WAKE UP from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed."

Change agents, you have been MARKED and WARNED! (Rom. 16:17)

Now I am going to relax and fix me a turkey sandwich with pickles.

-Sonny Elliot

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply
ConcernedMembers
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: God's Wall Of Honor

November 16 2010, 1:57 AM 

Sonny, this is an excellent message for all members of the body of Christ -- that includes you and me, preachers and teachers, even "change agents," et al.

Pardon me if I sense in your message being addressed to "change agents" that there is that tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, insincerity. I could be wrong. If so, disregard this paragraph. But it's some thought to process and consider, anyway.

From your list of admonitions to the "change agents," you mentioned everything BUT their activities and efforts to restructure and reorganize the church, the body of Christ; their deceptive schemes and methodologies for "church growth" while disrupting and dividing peaceful congregations; their inability to start their own denomination from scratch, since they're so dissatisfied with the simplicity of New Testament teachings.

By now, we've learned and known quite a bit about "change agents" -- that they are:

  1. Men who do harm to the body of Christ while being supported to build it up.
  2. Men who claim to be helping the church while fomenting chaos and strife within.
  3. Men who rush forward to offer a fix for the problems they themselves have created. They offer staff services to help churches resolve the conflicts caused by their changes.
  4. Men who seek to build their status and influence by bashing and attempting to discredit the godly preachers who blazed the trail before them and built the congregations where they now serve.
  5. Men whose teaching and practice lowers respect for the authority of God's Word.
  6. Men who refuse to recognize and honor the church of Christ as the body of Christ.
  7. Men who think they know more about how to worship God than did Christ . . .
  8. Men who undertake to change the unchangeable kingdom of Christ.
  9. Men who presume that the new is better than the old in the realm of faith. They care nothing for the old paths (Jer. 6:16). They are like the pagan Athenians, always searching for something new or different.
  10. Men who'd rather not speak boldly of Christ as the "founder" of the church of Christ.
  11. Men who prefer to speak of Campbell and Stone as founders of their denomination.
  12. Men whose favorite word is "grace" to mean salvation without obeying its conditions.
  13. Men who love to speak of "freedom" to ignore Bible teachings on worship restrictions.
  14. Men who love freedom to fellowship and be accepted by denominational bodies.
  15. Men who speak of "patternism" as a sarcastic put down of the brethren true to God's pattern.
  16. Men who thirst for an emotion-based worship in the electronic churches of the televangelists.
Change agents operate on faulty assumptions:
  1. That they have discovered a more spiritual kind of religion now than before.
  2. That only they know, understand and appreciate the grace of God.
  3. That only they understand the blessings/benefits of the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
  4. That our concept is "restoration" of a specific congregation from 1st century.
  5. That they have discovered a new and superior approach to Bible interpretation.
    1. With that they claim to have found the true nature of the church.
    2. In reality, it is the old, emotion-based, subjective approach of Protestantism.
    3. Their Bible is a story book, serving only as a source for quotes for sermons, but not for regulating/guiding the faith, worship & practice of the church.
  6. That we are only interested in the doctrines and practices of the church.
  7. That we are not truly dedicated to Christ and trying to be like him -- they are.
  8. That we are narrow, bigoted, and legalistic -- they're not.
  9. That we claim that we are a perfect church. (Do you claim that?)
  10. That we claim that we have attained complete compliance with every aspect of Christ's will for us. (Do you claim that?)
  11. That we have misunderstood the way men are to be saved.
  12. That we should be labeled "traditionalists" for our unwillingness to change When the truth is this: it is not change that we reject; rather, we reject unlawful departure from God's authorized Word and way.
  13. That they can promote their changes without making one realize that TO DO SO:
    1. The concept of restoring the original New Testament church is abandoned.
    2. The changes advocated were not a part of the original church.
    3. Ties are severed with those noble saints who went before us. The faith and preaching of those predecessors would be incompatible with the advocates of change ... like oil and water they would not mix
    4. Changes proposed will make the congregation one of 1200 denominations.
    5. You are alienated/out of fellowship with simple Christians -- churches of Christ.
    6. The faith once delivered to the saints is abandoned.
    7. Participation in causing division in the body of Christ is a fearful thought.
I'm afraid, Sonny, that the "change agents" haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website and, therefore, are unaware of your "warnings" for them. So, I would urge you to notify these change agents of your "warnings" by directing them to this site and to your message for them in particular. (Don't forget to ask them to review the list that identifies who the real change agents are, as well as review the list of their faulty assumptions.) We might even be able to provide you with a comprehensive list of the names of these agents.

======================

The lists above have the line items numbered as points of reference in the discussion of specific items.


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 170.141.177.53 on Nov 16, 2010 11:03 AM


 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

WhyWhyWhyWhy

November 16 2010, 9:09 AM 

The only good point I saw from your diatribe, Donnie, is that the 'change agents' haven even heard of this website.
Each time I come here and see the unChristlike attitude presented here, with the lack of love, and false teachings, I envy those change agents that "haven't even heard of the ConcernedMembers website."
Yes, gents, this is your chance.......tell me not to let the door hit me on the backside on the way out. I just really believe that I would get more out of conversing with a gaggle of geese.
happy.gif
happy.gif
happy.gif
happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
AM
(no login)
143.111.22.56

Re: WhyWhyWhyWhy

November 16 2010, 11:06 AM 

"...I come here and see the unChristlike attitude presented here, with the lack of love, and false teachings..." this must be you talking to your mirror.


 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.139.186

Re: WhyWhyWhyWhy

November 16 2010, 1:00 PM 

AM, you've obviously noted that Dave delights in pointing his finger (hopefully not THE finger) and accusing those with whom he disagrees of being unloving, false teachers, and un-Christ-like. Then Dave equally delights in turning right around and hurling all manner of hate, insults, and a variety of smear tactics against those same people. The word for that kind of person is "hypocrite." It's as if Dave actually thinks that God approves of his "progressive," abominable behavior. No one should take a person like Dave with any degree of seriousness. He's behaved too much like the immature clown Barney Fife and, hence, has no credibility here.

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.13.99

Re: God's Wall Of Honor

November 16 2010, 10:36 AM 

After reading Sonny's list, you initially get a good impression. Then you read his last sentence: "Now I am going to relax and fix me a turkey sandwich with pickles." Your impression instantly fades and you think, "Well, I should have known--Sonny is just being Sonny after all, because his message really seems to carry his familiar tone of sarcasm, spitefulness, and insincerity." After composing such a message, relaxing with a bowl of fat-free ice cream and a slice of low-fat angel food cake would have been much better. Watch that cholesterol! happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: God's Wall Of Honor

November 16 2010, 12:01 PM 

Mr. Crump there you go being a chump again. You just can't refrain. At least this time it is not toward Dave and at least you have not elevated your behavior to being a prick, just a chump. I learn more all the time though Mr. Crump is even superior in his mind in health and diet advice. On an aside I think Sonny's message is cryptic for those who choose to read his words and statements carefully. Am I right Sonny? Now I will enjoy another cup of coffee.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."

 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

At a Loss of Words

November 16 2010, 1:32 PM 

Well now.......
I am just speechless.
Fred, you are going to get the lecture, from William, about cursing, reviling, and slander like no other.
Be prepared!

Ask William Crump about the time he cursed at Faithsite.com.

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.139.186

Re: At a Loss of Words

November 16 2010, 2:06 PM 

"Cursing" at FaithSite? Dave writes fiction, too. He'll have to produce the full post, not just say, "William Crump cursed at FaithSite." "Cursing" means taking the name of God/Jesus in vain, not quoting what some other poster said. Dave will have to prove that I "cursed" at FaithSite. I have quoted other FaithSite posters who used the word "crap" as part of their everyday language. "Crap" is not a curse word, it is vulgar.

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.222.109

Re: At a Loss of Words

November 16 2010, 11:14 PM 

I think I know what trick Dave is trying to pull, and it's not surprising, coming from someone with his blighted record here. I posted a message at FaithSite that dealt with posters who resort to vulgarity to smear those with whom they disagree. I posted a couple of colorful quotes I had seen from angry people at other sites to illustrate how ugly things can get. One of those quotes came from Concerned Members. It can be found in the Richland Hills Church of Christ section in a thread titled "An Apology to All Christians." The poster was anonymous (no surprise) and posted the following short response on March 16, 2005: "you judgmental a$$h--e!" (vulgar word modified here--BC). Of course, the poster spelled out the vulgar word completely, and the quote for illustration appeared unaltered in my FaithSite message. I don't recall what the other quote was, but it was just as bad.

The liberals instantly began their usual smear campaign and accused me of hurling profanity and vulgarity, when they knew that the quotes came from other sources and were used as illustrations. Now Dave is trying to do the same thing--falsely accusing someone with whom he disagrees of "cursing." And to think that Dave raves on and on about the alleged "false teachers" among the conservatives, when he turns around and makes false accusations himself. Mote and beam, boy, mote and beam. This is just another reason why Dave has absolutely no credibility here.

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.139.186

Re: God's Wall Of Honor

November 16 2010, 1:44 PM 

"Chump" and "prick." Fred's vocabulary evidently springs from the gutter. But I guess "progressive Christians" see nothing wrong with that, which is no surprise. Yeah, ole Fred is definitely showing his true colors. happy.gif

 
 Respond to this message   
Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: God's Wall Of Honor

November 17 2010, 8:59 AM 

Mr. Crump has apparently been offended. I guess he is used to being the intimidator on this site and that everyone needs to revere him and walk on egg shells around him and is not used to having someone close to his own age on this site like Fred who isn't impressed by the holier than thou attitude toward Dave. Mr. Crump I have grown up in the Church of Christ and am well aware of elders preachers and other Christian men who are afraid of losing control and do not mind being unkind toward anybody they perceived as a "threat" and the result is that the church loses more of the younger generation while the older group argues and strains gnats while swallowing camels. Instead of looking down upon and mimicking and jabbing those like Dave as you do I on the other hand find young men like Dave refreshing to the church and think we need to mentor Dave to keep the faith and not get discouraged and side tracked by non-essentials that have been debated over and over in the past while all kinds of people leave the church for other reasons. By the way most young people do not leave the church because there is or is not instruments at the building. In case you haven't noticed buildings with and without instruments are losing their children to the world. Most leave because they are not nourished in their faith and because the church lacks love and the spirit of Jesus in relationships and outreach. As an example I hope the Holy Spirit will lead you and your church to fellowshipping your brothers and sisters at Winterfest and providing your youth with the uplifting experience the weekend offers as Christians old and young are unified in praising God and studying from His word. I think you are of the mentality that we debate criticize object and boycott Winterfest. I am of the mentality that I take my grandchildren there. Either way make sure your church is offering its youth positive influences and spending quality time with them because they desperately need it in todays world.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."

 
 Respond to this message   
Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Brother Fred

November 16 2010, 8:23 PM 

I thought about helping this site communicate lovingly yet boldly with the change agents, and that we could step back and start with the basics for the change agents since obviously this site discussing worship differences hasn't influenced them to repent. God's Word calls all change agents/Christians to be men who honor God/Christ, their wives/family, and who LIVE (not just preach) honorably in every way. If the change agents can't even do this they are hypocrites who call the kettle black when they act like the superior spiritual police toward us conservatives and telling us all the ways we are wrong or mistaken and need to see the light of their liberalism.

-Sonny

 
 Respond to this message   
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

WRONG is WRONG

November 17 2010, 9:50 AM 

William Crump, you seem to always be backpedaling. I really don't need to show any proof of your cursing at all. You did it yourself.
Yes you quoted the fully spelled words instead of abbreviating such or hinting of such.....at Faithsite and did the same here for Fred Whaley.
UNACCEPTABLE by any means....
If young eyes didn't have the chance to see it once.....well no problem.....William will help them out by showing those UNACCEPTABLE words again.....and again......and again. If they forgot them from the original posting, with William, they will have their chance to see them time and time again.
I can understand that, in a lot of cases, an original quote is needed, but curse words being quoted, for young eyes to see, is, again.....UNACCEPTABLE.



 
 Respond to this message   
Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: Brother Fred

November 19 2010, 11:56 AM 

I read and understand you Sonny Elliot! Have a good weekend.

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

Getting to Know You -- Wham!!!

November 17 2010, 1:16 PM 

Brethren,

We have set up a special den for those who love to show their "true colors." It is a non-profit organization. By "true colors," we mean: "a model of personality identification that is easy to understand, remember and apply." It should help anyone to see "self" and listen to "self."

We have viewers from the Russian Federation, the Netherlands, Romania, Germany, France, India, and other parts of the world. Let's be civil. Otherwise, we will have no other option but to delete your message or to move it to the special den: "Getting to Know You." Another good description of the den might be: "Looking in the Mirror" or "Free Slugfest in the Den."


Special Den of Vipers Thread for the Reviled or Slandered--Getting to Know You

 
 Respond to this message   
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.157.35.87

Re: Getting to Know You -- Wham!!!

November 17 2010, 1:41 PM 

Donnie, I request that you delete all previous messages from Dave, Fred, Sonny, and me in this thread and others like them where the "flow" of responses has been anything but on-topic. I agree that several threads need to be "cleaned up." We don't ever want this site to become the abomination that FaithSite had become before it folded.

Thanks,
Bill

 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
170.141.177.53

Re: Getting to Know You -- Wham!!!

November 17 2010, 4:12 PM 

Thanks, Dr. Crump. It's a fair request. For now, we think that it's OK and that all of us have read and noted the "getting to know you" suggestion. Sometimes it is not an easy task to delete an undesirable post that is in response to or followed by a good post, unless we edit out the entire message content altogether with only the title left. Such an incident occurred at that particular site when the initial intent was to delete only certain posts written by conservatives -- the result was the inadvertent or unintentional removal of other posts or even entire threads [as I recall]. Of course, in the end, there was a GLOBAL banning of a group of "conservative" posters.



 
 Respond to this message   
Donnie
(no login)
170.141.177.53

Dave's concept of "false teachers"

November 16 2010, 1:27 PM 

Dave,

I sense that you've begun to grasp the true nature of the "change agents" operating in the brotherhood. Maybe, just maybe, when you carefully analyze what the church is painfully experiencing, thanks to the destructive efforts of the change agents [no -- it's not "growing pains"], and carefully study the listed items that describe them, you just might see that their objective is to "transform" churches of Christ to Community Churches.

We've already witnessed that objective come to fruition. A living example of that is "Reverend" Max Lucado, "Senior Pastor" of the Oak Hills Church [formerly "of Christ]. (FYI, Mr. Lucado, at speaking engagements and denominational gatherings, loves being addressed as "Reverend," etc.). Why be ashamed of the name "of Christ"? And drop it or remove it? Why be concerned of the stigma of being a member of the "church of Christ"?

We should know by now that characteristic of a Community Church is to drop "of Christ" (as in "Oak Hills Church" or whatever is its former designation, affiliation or association. What do you know? The Community Church Movement has infected and affected not only churches of Christ but also various religious groups. Rick Warren was formerly a Baptist pastor, and he is now Senior Pastor of the Saddleback Community Church in CA.

Now that we know more about the "change agents" and their affinity for the "Community Church" and the "Community Church Movement," let's turn to learning and knowing more about the Restoration Movement -- the history of a heritage that the change agents are attempting to rewrite or revise while attempting also to improvise, reorganize and restructure the New Testament church that they now believe is just another "denomination."

There is a stark contrast of objectives and principles between:
The Restoration Movement: with the men who believed that the New Testament is our guide and that Christ established His church (but unfortunately in Dave's fading memory is about false teachers and false teachings)

--------------------- versus -------------------

The Change Movement: with the "change agents" who believe that the church of Christ is just another denomination and that "the body of Christ" is comprised of all denominations and is, therefore, a "community" of churches (with folks like Dave who accuse those other than the change agents are "false teachers").
Well, Dave, since the change agents do not know about this website, we just want to ensure that Sonny convey the special message to the change agents.

 
 Respond to this message   
 
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Place your text ad here.           See all text ads

This web site is not part of or approved by any Church!

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

Click Here......The Book is Available Now FREE

Place your banner ad here.           See all banner ads

...ConcernedMembers.com ...About ...Links Library ...Sunday School in Exile ...Help Warn Others


FastCounter by bCentral

CM Visit Counter as of 6/25/2015
2,101,394

Site Visits Since 6/30/2015
page counter