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Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Who said Sonny was leaving?

January 18 2011, 3:27 AM 

Sonny,

I think it was a misunderstanding. I may not have clearly stated that you were quoting from "wave runner." My bad. sad.gif

Would you do me a favor? I need the source from which you quoted "wave runner." Unless it was from an e-mail correspondence between you and him, do not bother. (It was Tom Brite [a.k.a. "wave runner"] who said "bye" sometime ago.)

Sonny, I do not recall ever not posting any of your messages. Yes, I have delayed publishing some of your posts. Yes, I have edited some of your posts in which you essentially judged or condemned a Christian brother to hell -- as if to say, you were the saint.

This site disagrees with certain beliefs and activities of the change agents operating in the brotherhood. We do not question their personal lives -- only how they interfere with the affairs of congregations, subvert and cause division in the church, the bride of Christ. This site is committed to warn peaceful congregations of the activities of change agents, as certain changes are unnecessary and divisive.

Other than that, we value your contributions.

 
    
Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: Who said Sonny was leaving?

January 19 2011, 1:07 AM 

Here is the source.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/churches-of-christ-forum/concerned-members-49783/msg856915/?topicseen

Brother Cruz, do not worry about any possible mistake as there were none. I think Brother Crump would have tried to aggravate and be my adversary anyway even though there was no misunderstanding. All it takes is believing anything different and you are his enemy for life (I'm afraid). Indeed, I hope I am wrong but this is the message he communicates to me and it seems to others.

To Brother Crump's satisfaction happy.gif - I think I am actually going to take a break from posting. I will be reading and will probably reply in the future if/when I think it will do any good. All of you legalists and "borderline" legalists remember that legalism kills spiritual growth as much as sin does. I say this in love and for iron to sharpen iron.

I praise God for converting me from legalism to Jesus Christ! I praise God for converting me from traditions of men to the teachings of Christ! I praise God for converting me from dogmas of man to the doctrine of Christ!

Finally, I have not condemned anyone to hell. (I welcome you, Brother Cruz, to provide the message(s) from me that communicate such.) It is just the opposite. I believe strongly in the grace of God. I am an advocate of mercy triumphing over judgment. I am "concerned" about a person or persons, and any preacher or preachers, who do not acknowledge a need for grace or speak words of grace seasoned with salt towards outsiders and even towards insiders. I believe MOST of the people that concerned members and Brother John Waddey speak against (and label as "change agents") ARE Christians and insiders EVEN THOUGH they are not treated with love and respect (and as "brothers") by him and this website. Finally, as I have stated several times in different terms, I DO believe Brother Waddey is an "insider" and "brother" despite ______ ... (I will not go further and fill in the blank nor try to explain and be "persuasive" - it doesn't matter).

Grace and peace to everyone at concerned members.

Your brother in Christ,

-Sonny

 
    
Donnie Cruz
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
99.177.249.211

Re: Who said Sonny was leaving?

January 19 2011, 2:46 AM 

Sonny,

Thanks for the source. I'll take a look.

Right, I shouldn't have to "worry about any possible mistake." After all, Dr. Crump had requested me to cancel his posted response as he might have "misunderstood" your post. I did not oblige since you had already posted: "Who said Sonny was leaving?" Otherwise, your post would have been automatically [i.e., without intervention] canceled.

Your feeling that you yourself have been converted from "legalism" is not a valid reason for you to be accusing those of us who oppose the beliefs and activities of your role models -- the change agents -- as legalists or "borderline" legalists. To do so would be no different from accusing your own heritage, the great men of the Restoration Movement, as legalists. If nothing else registers in your mind, please be constantly reminded that the change agents are the ones who've made the detour from the principles of the Restoration Movement.

I, for one, am not convinced that you were ever a legalist or that you are a "recovering legalist." I think you are mistaking:

(a) your "recovery" from legalism
--------------- for -------------
(b) your "conversion" to the "ism" of the Change Movement.


There is a colossal difference between "recovery" and "conversion."

You are correct in that you did not use the exact expression: "condemned a brother to hell." You didn't have to do so. However, the implication in certain of your posts judging or condemning a brother cannot be overlooked. Right, you say, "I forgive him." Why? What did this brother do to you that needed forgiveness from you?

I'll give you credit for a good catch with your remark concerning this "brother" when you said: "despite ______ ... (I will not go further and fill in the blank...." You were aware that it would have been edited anyway.

Overall, you're obviously troubled and disappointed mainly by the fact that churches of Christ have not succumbed to the desires of the change agents that the church, the bride of Christ, be just like "the other nations."

And that's your reason that members of the church, the body of Christ, are legalists? Of course, it is your prerogative to believe that in the "silence of Scripture," there is provision that God has authorized the use of inanimate, lifeless musical objects and devices in the assembly of New Testament saints. Again, that is your prerogative, brother.

 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.139.111

Re: Who said Sonny was leaving?

January 19 2011, 12:30 PM 

I don't recall any posts wherein Sonny condemned anyone to hell as such. Of course, if some of his posts were edited, then what appeared would not have contained that sentiment anyway. Rather, on a few occasions, Sonny seemed to believe that those who disagreed with him felt that he would not "make it" to heaven. He said something to this effect: "Brother Crump, I know you think I won't make it [to heaven]..." Those may not be Sonny's exact words, but his sentiment was clear. Even though I have never condemned Sonny or anyone else to hell, Sonny made himself the martyr and erroneously chose to believe that those who disagreed with him had condemned him to hell. Sonny again made an assumption when he said, "To Brother Crump's satisfaction happy.gif - I think I am actually going to take a break from posting." It appeared that Sonny preferred to create fanciful scenarios that painted his opponents as cruel villains while he clothed himself in shining light. That's a sad state of mind for anyone.

 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.18.56

Re: Who said Sonny was leaving?

January 18 2011, 3:44 AM 

I don't have to "wish" to get under anyone's skin. People who are naturally childish and immature will allow my comments and observations to get under their skin. Perhaps that especially hits close to home with Sonny. happy.gif

 
    
Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: Who said Sonny was leaving?

January 18 2011, 11:57 AM 

The Doctor stubbornly refuses to alter the way he treats others. Fred understood from the beginning being his accountability partner would likely not be a short-term endeavor. It often takes older people the longest to change ingrained habits and to matriculate into maturity and more of a Christian way of living. Sonny is certainly the better man.

Fred Whaley

 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.230.202

Don't Be So Obtuse, Dave

January 17 2011, 5:59 PM 

From his desire to remain obtuse, I gather that Dave has never looked in an unabridged dictionary anywhere for "well-worded." Whether it is found under "well" or "word" makes no difference. If Dave wants to broaden his vocabulary and discard his reputation of ignorance, he will realize that "well-worded" is a legitimate word that I certainly did not invent. Does Dave really believe that words MUST stand alone in the dictionary to be legitimate? How absurd! Is Dave now dictating how words are derived? Many complex or hyphenated, legitimate words are derived from simpler words. Such is the case with "well-worded." I'm a bit surprised that Dave refuses to accept that fact. Is Dave really that obtuse? Perhaps he is. More likely, Dave pretends to be obtuse only to perpetuate his useless argument. happy.gif

We know that "well-worded" can be found under "word" at dictionary.com. An example of an unabridged dictionary that presents "well-worded" under "well" is The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Second Edition, page 2159.

Don't be so obtuse, Dave. happy.gif

 
    
Dave
(no login)
69.59.112.185

Another Good Day!!!

January 17 2011, 9:35 PM 

You can find "well-worded" under "well" in one dictionary, unabridged at that, and under "word" in another dictionary.
However, you cannot, I repeat, you CANNOT.....find the WHOLE word, "well-worded," by itself anywhere.
happy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gifhappy.gif
But it's me being obtuse?

HA! Life is soooooooooooo good!!!

Keep dancing William, for the piper is calling.

 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.146.141.27

It's A Good Day for Dave to Cease Being Obtuse

January 18 2011, 12:20 AM 

Whether "well-worded" exists by itself or not in the dictionary is not the issue. The issue is whether that word exists in the dictionary at all, which it does. Therefore, "well-worded" is not an imaginary word. It is legitimate.

As I said, don't be so obtuse, Dave. happy.gif

 
    
Roncar
(no login)
98.81.115.254

Much To Do About Nothing

January 17 2011, 3:42 PM 

Dr. Crump, not everything is black or white. Here is a link for you.

http://www.grammarerrors.com/

happy.gif

 
    
Roncar
(no login)
98.81.44.122

Re: Much To Do About Nothing

January 17 2011, 9:25 PM 

http://www.tameri.com/edit/gramerrors.html


Physician errors are on the rise. Computer errors are declining.







 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.230.202

Re: Spelling, Grammar, and Punctuation

January 17 2011, 5:06 PM 

Thread: The Liberal Mind and Method

Message: "The Sonny Ghost"

Error: Fred wrote: "The Sonny Ghost would then have to intervene and haunt and reak [sic] havoc on this toxic place."

The word is "wreak," not "reak." Perhaps the Dictionary Ghost needs to haunt Fred. happy.gif

 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.139.193

This Thread Is a Winner

January 18 2011, 1:32 PM 

With nearly 160 replies at this moment, this thread has the highest number of replies since the thread entitled "WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEKThe Timeline (Part X)" was locked in 2006. That thread ended with nearly 280 replies. As long as this present thread remains open and at the rate people are responding, this thread could set a record with the highest number of replies in the history of Concerned Members!

 
    
Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Current Statistics

January 18 2011, 2:44 PM 

Doctor Crump --72
Dave --35
Donnie --20
Roncar --19
Fred --4 (now 5 with this post to make the total 159)
Sonny --2
Scotty --1
Anonymous --1

Total = 158

 
    
Roncar
(no login)
98.81.72.102

Re: This Thread Is a Winner

January 18 2011, 4:48 PM 

Dr. Crump, congratulations on your accomplishments! You are the "Grand Viper for 2010" and you are now on the way to breaking an all time posting record in the SGP thread. Let us celebrate and give Dr. Crump what he is due. Virtual high fives to Dr. Crump!

happy.gif

 
    
Roncar
(no login)
98.81.72.102

Re: This Thread Is a Winner

January 18 2011, 5:45 PM 

Thread: This Thread Is a Winner

Error: Dr. Crump wrote: "WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEKThe[sic] Timeline (Part X)"

Doctor Crump failed on proofreading his post, thus the error. PROOFREAD, PROOFREAD, PROOFREAD! happy.gif

http://grammartips.homestead.com/errors.html


 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.150.2

Re: This Thread Is a Winner

January 18 2011, 9:32 PM 

Actually, "[sic]" should be placed as follows: "WHAT HAPPENED AT MADISON THIS WEEK[sic]The Timeline (Part X)."

The original title had a long dash between "WEEK" and "THE" with no spaces between them. When I used C&P, the dash disappeared. Roncar is observant and is probably celebrating what he thinks is a "victory" with champagne and cigars. Perhaps he is thinking, "I got that smart-a$$ Dr. Crump but good [sic]!" Before his head swells into the clouds and to keep him on his toes, however, he should always remember what my wily math teacher said when her students thought she had made an "error."

In short, you will never know when I make a real error or when I "test" your powers of observation. Yes, this thread is indeed a winner! happy.gif


 
    
Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Same Ole Stuff that William was Banned for at Faithsite

January 19 2011, 8:02 PM 

Donnie,
When you can allow this site to allow men (or those who claim to be men) that will post such trash as William Crump did with "I got that smart-???" for unsuspecting teens and even those possibly younger than teens to see, well you can know this....it has nothing to do with conservative or liberal....it has to to do with lying down with the devil.
Ken Sublett talks about sexual perversions continuously, and Crump is back to his old self again posting smut talk.
William, now throw us this smooth line about how you were just trying to tell us what YOU thought RONCAR was going to say. The problem is....RONCAR didn't say it. Your filthy mind conjured it up.

Hey Donnie, truth is.....you can allow all the cursing and perverted talk to continue until Judgment Day. Like I said, it is your site and you can do what you want.

Hey William, grammar that.....


 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.251.194

Why Didn't Dave Complain about Fred?

January 20 2011, 8:44 AM 

Hey, Dave, why didn't you complain about Fred's "smut talk" in a post above in this same thread? I'm referring to Fred's using Elmer Fudd to exaggerate the spelling of "ass" (donkey). Fred said, "Be vewy vewy caweful my fwiend Roncar. Mr. Grump, the gwammar az (don't want to go to Anger Emission Control...)."

Fred was actually saying, "Mr. Grump, the grammar ass" or grammar donkey. Does Dave have such a dirty mind that he always associates "ass" with certain parts of human anatomy? How shallow!

What's the difference in "smart-a$$" vs. "az"? Both are exaggerated spellings of "ass" (donkey).

Dave didn't complain, because he and Fred are liberal birds of a feather, and those birds don't rebuke their own kind. Fred smeared the conservative Dr. Crump with an alleged "smut" word, yet Dave gave his silent approval. Then Dr. Crump posed a hypothetical quote that contained "smart-a$$," and Dave suddenly went ballistic in an exaggerated frenzy of "righteous indignation." How utterly pathetic.

What a blatant hypocrite Dave has become!

 
    
Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.153.100

Dave Needs a Dictionary...Again

January 20 2011, 10:27 PM 

Dave wrote: "Hey William, grammar that....."

"Grammar" is a noun, not a verb. Using "grammar" as a verb is incorrect. Dave should know better than that; but then, maybe he really doesn't. I advise him to look up "grammar" in the dictionary and memorize the definitions. happy.gif

 
    
 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan. Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books, seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the "Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready, or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last 15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill in some of the timeline.

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Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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