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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control

December 3 2010, 11:19 AM 

sad.gif yeri dudu wq azx tnnxslp bveiuqjy sad.gif

Fred does not claim to be self-righteous or perfect but D.C. I am not angry. Are you angry since you have been making negative statements about the Madison Church of Christ for 10 years? That is more than a day.

D.C. this has actually been going on between Mr. Doctor Crump towards Dave and others for I do not know how long. I cannot speak for how long Mr. Doctor Crump has let corrupt communication come out of his mouth attacking others and then proceeded to be passive and in denial about it. I am mildly attempting to turn a sinner from the error of his way to save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins (James 5:19-20).

happy.gif idfyue dfh udyfd iuoadnxfu uiwww happy.gif

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.153.244

Re: Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control

December 3 2010, 12:55 PM 

I see that Fred has contributed his share of "spiritual vomit" along with Dave. Fred shouldn't complain, because Donnie provided this thread for everyone to "vent." That venting will likely continue, courtesy of Dave and Fred, as long as the "line" is open. happy.gif

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.153.244

Re: Venting Machine: Anger Emission Control

December 3 2010, 1:14 PM 

Fred wrote: "I am mildly attempting to turn a sinner from the error of his way to save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins (James 5:19-20)."

Right on! Fred will be highly effective in reforming sinners by using such "mild" Christian words as "chump" and "spritual vomit" and typing gibberish as if he's "speaking in tongues." And Fred still avows that he is "not angry." Rather than launch into that bit of monstrous fiction, I highly recommend that Fred desperately mend his own soul first, before ever attempting to fix a few pin holes in the souls of others. Mote and beam, my friend, mote and beam.

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.153.244

Correction

December 3 2010, 2:10 PM 

"pinholes," not "pin holes."

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

The Bottom Line

December 3 2010, 2:30 PM 

Isaiah 64:6 states that all our righteousness is filthy rags. Romans 3:10 says no one is righteous. This includes Fred Dave Doctor Crump and D.C. (Donnie Cruz). The only difference is that Fred and Dave realize they are sinners saved by Jesus' blood and grace whether they use instruments or not. Both instrumental and non-instrumental worshippers will be saved by Jesus' blood and grace and not because of self-righteousness. 1 Corinthians 1:30 says Jesus is our wisdom righteousness holiness and redemption. 1:31 says let him who boasts boast in the Lord. Fred and Dave do not feel superior as acappella worshippers in the Church of Christ to instrumental worshippers in other churches. We also do not feel superior to other Christians within the Church of Christ because they also have a brain and also use their brain and have a different view on a spiritual matter. Fred and Dave believe in paying more attention to the camel than the gnat.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."

=============================

For further discussion, this post is being/has been moved (copied) to:

St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church


=============================


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Dec 4, 2010 10:38 PM


 
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Donnie
(Login Donnie.Cruz)
ConcernedMembersMadison
170.141.177.53

God's Grace <Not Equal> Musical Noise

December 3 2010, 4:27 PM 

Brother Fred,

You have become an expert on associating God's grace, the blood of the Lamb and man's righteousness, even the feeling of superiority (or a lack thereof) with, of all controversial issues, instrumental music.

There is no controversy in the wonderful grace of God until a professed Christian misuses and abuses it. There is no controversy in the blood of the Redeemer until a theologian teaches that one outside of Christ receives redemption in His blood and is added to the church outside of belief, repentance and putting on Christ in baptism.

The operation of mechanical music in the assembly of saints is a controversial issue as there is/has been no directive from God in the entire Bible (including both Old and New Testaments) that He is to be worshipped with the noise of inanimate, lifeless musical objects [the musician's toys]. On the contrary, throughout history, man has wanted and desired for such form of idolatry -- musical idolatry -- by (including) both "certain men of God" [David, king of Israel and musician, but not any of Christ's apostles] and the pagans [Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon].

Feel free to discuss this IM issue at this link:


St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church


=============================

For further discussion, this post is being/has been moved (copied) to:

St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church


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This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Dec 4, 2010 10:46 PM


 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Fred is Fighting for Respect for The Word of God and NOT Teachings of Men

December 3 2010, 5:33 PM 

D.C. what makes one sin or form of idolatry different from another? I guess what I am thinking and asking is what makes one sin unforgiveable? As you can see by now I do not believe instrumental worship is sin or idolatry but if it is why can it not be forgiven but greed materialism Phariseeism legalism gossip adultery lying stealing and many many more sins all can be? How you equate worshipping God to being WORSE than these is perplexing. I guess that theology and soteriology works for you but it does not for me. And just because the music issue is controversial does not make it wrong. I am going to use "the Jesus approach" on you by asking questions and letting you answer and hopefully you will come to the truth by my wise approach. I have seven questions I want you to speak on and let me and everyone else reading this know what your position is concerning truth and grace and I think you will begin to see my side and we can be brothers. I have almost given up on me and Doctor Crump ever being buds. He does not like me holding him accountable and refuses to humble himself but I have not given up yet.

#1) Is a teenager (someone's grandchild) who has been baptized and is trying to live by the Bible not a Christian if they ever go to a Christian instrumental Gaither concert? (Especially if they do not think it is a sin and are wholeheartedly trying to live by the Bible and not intentionally defying something in their understanding of God and His Word.)

#2) What about an adult? (Meaning is there a difference based on age and what is that difference if there is one and why?)

#3) Is it just as wrong (or worse) to be at Winterfest or a Gaither concert as to be at a Rock Concert or at a party where people are drinking beer and getting drunk?

#4) Can a Christian (baptized believer) be forgiven for ever getting drunk or lying?

#5) Can a Christian be forgiven for worshipping God with an instrument? (Since you call it idolatry.)

#6) Can a Christian be forgiven for forsaking the assembly for one or more Sundays? (I assume you agree with Hebrews 10:25.)

#7) Is it better to be at an assembly where you disagree with part of the worship (even if it is one where all worship is without instruments but you think they should be or vice versa) or just the same to go somewhere where you might disagree with something as to not go anywhere?

D.C. please answer all 7 by identifying using our wonderful number system. If you need a few days or weeks on this there is no rush as I know I have mentioned a lot of questions for us to debate. AND if you would also like to keep this message on this forum but place at the bottom that the message is also appearing in that other forum along with you future reply as to not continue this under the venting forum as you were suggesting that is fine. But I would like for this message to STILL APPEAR HERE so readers can see my response to you now at this time.

Fred Whaley

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."

=============================

For further discussion, this post is being/has been moved (copied) to:

St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church


=============================


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Dec 4, 2010 10:49 PM


 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: The Bottom Line

December 3 2010, 7:38 PM 

Brother Fred,

Are you implying that we are actually allowed to study the Bible for ourself and think for ourself and not be under the tyranny of what others say it all means? Does this mean that neither Sonny nor Brother Waddey, Crump, Sublett and Cruz should mandate what every Christian believe and do as much as encouraging people to read, study, dig, ask questions, dialogue with others, have convictions, yet continue to be humble and willing to reassess your views and willing to listen and respect the perspective of others?

Why do you think Nicodemus struggled to be born again? It would require humility and admitting he had been wrong as a self-righteous Pharisee.

I know. I am a recovering legalist who had it all figured out and there was no grace for doctrinal error even if unintentional and no grace for lifestyle mistakes. Jesus saves us from our sin at baptism but then we have no avenue to confess and be forgiven (1 John 1:9) after baptism. I saw repentance as a one time event and confession and missed that we must continue to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and that no matter how much we try and how pure our heart that we fall short of God's glory every single day. Praise God for those who have loved me out of my zealous ignorance.

Now, Brother Fred. I ultimately agree with you and your convictions and admire your passion and fire for truth and focus on grace. However, I am going to humbly and gently ask you to be a little less forceful in some of your statements (not talking about this post but some previous ones). No one will be led closer to Christ and truth if they think we are more combative than caring, and understand I am not suggesting you are uncaring but it may occasionally come across that way. Love you bro.

-Sonny

=============================

For further discussion, this post is being/has been moved (copied) to:

St. Paul - how to deal with a joker (change agent) @ your local church


=============================


    
This message has been edited by Donnie.Cruz from IP address 99.177.249.211 on Dec 4, 2010 10:52 PM


 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

If every Christian were like Sonny

December 7 2010, 9:33 AM 

The church would be better off. Thank you Sonny for all of your comments and the spirit that is behind your words. The spirit of Christ is in you and I can tell you really care about everyone on this site both liberal and conservative. My biggest issue is with the superior attitude and spiritual vomit I read on this site from the ULTRA-conservatives. But you are right. I can see where the way I express some of my points and choice of words could be better.

Fred Whaley

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
74.241.153.244

Re: If every Christian were like Sonny

December 7 2010, 11:55 AM 

Fred wrote: "I can see where the way I express some of my points and choice of words could be better."

Fred is quite right, and if he really wanted to purge himself of his vile attitude, he would make a real effort to show more self-discipline by not referring to those with whom he disagrees as "chump" and "spiritual vomit."

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Re: If every Christian were like Sonny

December 7 2010, 12:36 PM 

eri dffh hallelujah d laio! Praise the Lord! d laio giuzzl The Lord is good! DC y F ucxo oadf sslksjr o op w sds bcve iisididfpo aa n dfpw ui doip J hallelujah! Doctor Crump and Fred may not worship together at Winterfest but shall one day be in heaven together for all of eternity with their brother Jesus!

Fred Whaley

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.149.157.33

Re: If every Christian were like Sonny

December 7 2010, 5:31 PM 

That's a nice thought, but just as a suggestion, it might be wise for Fred to abandon the nonsensical gibberish. People may get the wrong impression and think that it derives from something other than (allegedly) "speaking in tongues." happy.gif

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

The church would be worse off

December 8 2010, 12:13 PM 

if everyone were like Doctor Chrump. The more you are aggressive toward me means less on young Dave. happy.gif

Fred Whaley

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
72.154.251.67

Re: The church would be worse off

December 8 2010, 3:23 PM 

I see that Mr. Whale_ still has problems spelling my name. Could he be suffering from dyslexia? Naw, it's more likely the condition sometimes found on Internet religious message boards known as "Christianus asininus." Maybe Mr. Whale_ has typed "chump" so much that he can't refrain from hitting the "h" key when he types my name.

BTW, it's barely possible that my "y" key only works periodically. But that shouldn't bother Mr. Whale_ too much (for Dave's benefit, notice that this sentence begins with a coordinating conjunction). After all, if I can "forgive" Mr. Whale_'s penchant for adding an "h" to my name to make it a kissin' cousin to "chump," then surely as a model "Christian," he can "forgive" any freak absence of the "y" from his name. happy.gif

 
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Fred Whaley
(no login)
173.162.22.85

Fred is not giving up on Doctor Crump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

December 9 2010, 11:49 AM 

Folks I think I'm really under the buzzard's skin. happy.gif Everyone be praying that my influence or Dave's or anyone's rescues his soul from Satan's grasp. There's an old saying "Never try to outpuke a buzzard." I would never be able to nor even desire to try to outdo Doctor Crump in terms of verbal puke or spiritual vomit. He has the degree and expertise in that. However this latest response brings laughter because of its failure to accomplish what he intended. William Crump is a fragile man! Mr. Whale_ does not bother me like Mr. Crump does him. I don't even have to use the other name (Ch). Just leaving off the Dr. "title" is sufficient since he has an inferiority complex and paranoia. It is both a social and spiritual neurosis. Some think the Christian thing to do is to make him feel good and stroke his ego so he is not offended. This will not get his ATTENTION AND SAVE HIS SOUL from the ETERNAL FIRE. So those like Fred think the best or Christian thing is to mildly but bluntly hold him accountable and challenge him to repent of his sins of pride and folly on this site and start being a true Christian in attitude and example and also embracing all Christians. His toxic beliefs and crass and toxic behavior can contaminate and corrupt people with good hearts so be cautious when reading his messages. He would rather poke fun at people over gwwwammatical errors or criticize Christians than to be a loving and compassionate man like Jesus who makes other disciples of Jesus. He has wasted countless opportunities to disciple a younger Dave and encourage him to keep the faith. He has squandered them but thankfully has not squelched young Dave's spark. Dave do not be discouraged and do not give up on Doctor Crump! Do not forget Jesus saw the potential in the old Pharisee Nicodemus to be born again.

Fred Whale_

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him." (Jesus to Nicodemus)

 
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Dr. Bill Crump
(no login)
70.156.13.176

Fred Needs to Reform Himself First

December 9 2010, 1:33 PM 

Fred still thinks that he can "reform" people by using words like "puke" and "spiritual vomit." Unfortunately, Fred is grossly misguided, but we'll let him wallow in his so-called "righteous" pursuits if they make him feel superior and "holier-than-thou." In all seriousness, Fred needs to clean up the shambles of his own soul before ever attempting to pluck some lint from the souls of others. It's also strange that Fred has never tried to "reform" Dave, whose insults and smear tactics on this site are infamous. Well, "birds of a feather" build similar nests.

Sorry, but Fred just doesn't pass muster as the "model" reformer.

 
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Sonny
(no login)
99.186.93.107

Re: If every Christian were like Sonny

December 7 2010, 8:04 PM 

Yes brother, I do care about all Christians, including those who are really liberal and those who are really conservative.

-Sonny

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.149

Musicians NEVER beyond the PARKING LOT! A falling temple takes all enablers.

December 2 2010, 9:20 PM 

"If you are in the parking lot and have still not quit arguing with the people on the porch, you haven't left the Church of Christ yet."

If YOU let the performing boylings PAST the parking lot you are worthy of execution: since all of you musicators use the LEVITES as your legalisticf patternism. No human falure is beyond grace: taking instruments into a holy place IS beyond redemption.

Num. 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron,
.....Thou and thy sons and thy fathers house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary:
.....and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the INIQUITY of your priesthood.

Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister BEFORE the tabernacle of witness. [never IN]

H8334 sharath shaw-rath' A primitive root; to attend as a menial or worshipper; figuratively to contribute to:--minister (unto), (do) serve (-ant, -ice, -itor), wait on.

Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle:
.....only they shall NOT come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar,
.....that neither they, nor ye also, die.

"A stranger," that is, one, neither a priest nor a Levite, who should intrude into any departments of the sacred office, should incur the penalty of death. ROBERT JAMIESON

Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee,
.....and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation,
.....for all the service [hard, legalistic bondage] of the tabernacle:
.....and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.

Num. 18:5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary,
.....and the charge of the altar:
.....THAT THERE BE NO WRATH ANY MORE COME UPON THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
Num. 18:6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel:
to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

 
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Dave
(no login)
130.127.43.117

Good Morning

December 3 2010, 9:48 AM 

It's a good Friday so far, everyone is playing nice, ....."and I haven't even worked up a sweat!" happy.gif

 
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Ken Sublett
(Login Ken.Sublett)
ConcernedMembersMadison
72.171.0.144

Speak is OPPOSITE Clang-Twang-Sang-Bang

December 3 2010, 5:37 PM 

[linked image]

 
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...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?


There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

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Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

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At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

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10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
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Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)
 

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