How easy it is to blasphemeJanuary 5 2011 at 6:23 PM
|Ken Sublett (Login Ken.Sublett)|
from IP address 188.8.131.52
People are forced to blaspheme the Spirit of Christ in all of the prophets: Christ repudiates all of the PATTERNISM people use to COMMAND people to participate in what they call instrumental worship of GET OUT. Planning to lose up to half of the owners in order to make the bait and switch falls easily within the postmodern ethics. They say "we gonna take your church house and turn it into a theater for holy entertainment 'cause we gonna save more souls." All recorded history connects religious music to sorcery as did John in Revelation 18. People can easily ignore that and the REST of the Bible because they HEAR spirits and I don't doubt it a bit. However, John identifies sorcerers with dogs (catamites) for whom the lake of fire was created.
1. David Faust from the NACC has convinced a few dupes:
A . In the Old Testament the Lord didn't merely "permit" the use of musical instruments as aids to worship.
He commanded their use.
B. In the old Testament the Lord didn't merely "permit' the use of musical instruments as aids to worship.
He blessed their use.
One example 300 years after the last plague stopping exorcism is THEIR patternism: their patternists had been ABANDONED to worship the starry host (at the temple) and there was NO REDEMPTION.
2. However, They say the LORD SAID when Christ in the prophets said the LORD HAS NOT SAID.
They follow the Lying Pen of the Scribes and blaspheme CENI.
Jer. 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times;
and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming;
but my people know not the judgment of the LORD.
Jer. 8:8 How do ye say, We are WISE
and the law of the LORD is WITH US?
LO, CERTAINLY IN VAIN MADE HE IT;
THE PEN OF THE SCRIBES IS in vain
Who are the WISE Jesus said the Father HIDES HIMSELF?
WISE IS: Sophos
A. skilled in any handicraft or art, clever, mostly of poets and musicians,
Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara
s. E.IT1238 (lyr.), cf. Ar.Ra.896
, h(, A. sophistry, D.S.12.53, Plu.2.78f, D.L.2.113, etc.; opp. sophia, Ph.1.10; s. mantik, of Balaam
, ou, ho, master of one's craft, adept panu thaumaston legeis s (lying wonderful speaker)
with modal words added, hoi s. tn hiern meln (Melody in a holy place)
That would get the Levite PATTERNISTS executed.
II. from late v B.C., a Sophist, i.e. one who gave lessons in grammar, rhetoric, politics, mathematics, for money,
That is CORRUPTING THE WORD: selling learning at retail. How can they sell the FREE Word (Isa 55) when Christ outlawed speaking THEIR OWN WORDS (Isa 58)?: Paul said of the Corinthians that "fools love to be fooled."
The Lying Pen of the Scribes do not speak to the Godly people
II. Transf., of inanim, and abstr. things, lying, false, deceptive; feigned
, not real, etc. a liar should have a good memory,
Recorded history ranks "poetry and music" with lying: outlawed by the command to SPEAK.
Scrba , ae, m. scribo, I. a public or official writer, a clerk, secretary, scribe (whereas librarius or scriba librarius denotes a private secretary or amanuensis;
2. (Eccl. Lat.) A doctor of the Jewish law, one whose duty it was to guard and expound the sacred text, Vulg. 2 Reg. 8, 17; id. Matt. 23, 2 et saep
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers!
for ye have taken away the key of knowledge
ye entered not in yourselves,
and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Music from mystery MEANS to "make the lambs dumb before the slaugher." It certainly works, doesn't it? ::clappingoverhead::
Jesus called the Scribes (doctors) and Pharisees, Hypocrites: in the Ezekiel 33 version Christ listed slick preachers, singers and instrument players.
How can they get away repeating the Lying Pen of the Scribes? In the words of Paul "Fools love to be fooled: the more they pay the better the fooled."
3. Claiming that God has said, When God has NOT said Is defined by Christ as blasphemy.
He Said it....not me!
|January 5 2011, 10:10 PM |
#3 on Ken's list.
"Claiming that God has said, When God has NOT said Is defined by Christ as blasphemy."
So therefore, when you guys claim that instrumental music is sinful, when God has never said such, you are blaspheming?
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: He Said it....not me!
|January 5 2011, 11:53 PM |
So therefore by the same logic, when Dave claims that instrumental music is not sinful, because God doesn't condemn it in the New Testament, yet Dave ignores the fact that God has never authorized IM in the New Testament, then Dave is blaspheming. In other words, when Dave assumes that IM is not sinful, because "God didn't say not to," yet Dave ignores the fact that the latter phrase does not exist in the New Testament, then Dave is blaspheming.
No question about it.
|January 6 2011, 11:01 AM |
I didn't say "God didn't say not to," you made that assumption of me. You continue to do this even though you know that I have never said such. False accusations is where you have to go William. It is a sinking ship that you keep bailing out with wanting to make instrumental music a sin, and you believe that someone will believe these false accusations.
Ken made the claim of "Claiming that God has said, When God has NOT said Is defined by Christ as blasphemy."
Man has made instrumental music a sin. It is not listed as a sin anywhere in the Holy Word. By the way William, this is not saying "God didn't say not to," and make the false accusations all you care to, but it will never even come close to what you WANT me to say. Remember what got you banned from Faithsite.com? 'Behavior unbecoming a Christian?' You are doing it again....HOWEVER...you can do so all you want here because you have the power to act against God's Way all day long here and get away with it.
Also, and therefore, William Crump, by Ken Sublett's claim you would be a blasphemer.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
|January 6 2011, 6:47 PM |
As I recall, no one ever said that Dave explicitly said, "God didn't say not to," using those exact words. However, there are a number of different ways to say the same thing. For example, if Dave said, "The tree has a green color," that would convey the SAME meaning as saying, "The tree is green." Of course, if Dave wanted to deny that, he could say, "I DID NOT say, 'The tree is green,'" which would be true. Yet by clear implication, "The tree is green" conveys the SAME meaning as, "The tree has a green color."
Dave believes that IM is not sinful, because God does not explicitly condemn it in the New Testament. Yet Dave apparently thinks that, "God didn't say not to use IM" does not convey the same meaning. Actually, the two sentiments are just two different ways of saying the same thing.
Summary: "God didn't say not to use IM" has the same meaning as "God doesn't condemn IM in the New Testament." Both statements wrongly assume that anything God does not explicitly condemn by name is permissible.
WIlliam, You Just Go Ahead and Do What You Want to Do....Like Always
|January 7 2011, 12:05 PM |
""God didn't say not to use IM" has the same meaning as "God doesn't condemn IM in the New Testament," William purports.
However, I didn't say either, as William Crump would propose, but what difference is one more false allegation from William??? When you start with one false claim, it cam become easy, or 'pathological.'
I said that God deliberately tells us of the sins of the flesh in His Wonderful Word, and unfortunately for some (as much as they would wish it to be so)IM is not listed as sinful in His Wonderful Word. It makes them foam at the mouth because IM is not a sin.
God DID say that trying (note that I said 'try) to add to His Word is a sin....which William Crump is attempting (note that I used the word 'attempting') to do. All the power that William Crump has in him is no match for God, even though William thinks differently by trying, in vain, to add to the Word of God.
AND....another thing......William and others here violate their own man made plan by acting on the assumption that "God didn't say not to" by using other items, besides IM, to worship God. A PA system isn't specifically authorized ("God didn't say not to use a PA system", and a PA system is an aid to the singing, just as the piano is, but they prefer the PA system, but the do not prefer the instruments of music. Again, a man made plan over God's plan??? NO WAY HOSEA!!!
Sorry William, but you are wrong.....again.
|January 7 2011, 2:48 PM |
Dr. Crump, why do you insist on using "God didn't say not to"? It is a double negative. Dave's way is better English. Take a lesson from Dave.
Campbell's short message against instruments.
|January 17 2011, 11:06 PM |
Campbell was reluctant to respond to the suggestion of Mr. G. that instruments be added to the church assembly. Otherwise, it was not within the realm of possibility that any spiritual and Bible literate person would impose music into the solemn assembly which had the ONLY role to PREACH the Word of Christ by READING it and discussing it. Not even the Disciples believed it. None of them believed in it. It was always ONE dominant person: when the offended were driven out those who opposed slowly grew to enjoy it because it appealed to the "lust of the eyes and ears" says Albert Barnes.
What prompted Alexander Campbell to make his comments. John Rogers asked for a response to Mr. G.
WHAT MR. G SAID DEFENDING INSTRUMENTS is what the Catholics claimed: In fact, the Christians fueled by James O'Kelly were rooted in the Methodists-Church of England-High Church view of a "rubber authority."
The instrumentalists must subscribe to the views of those who sowed discord. In a letter Mr. G suggests the addition of instruments:
"INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC is entirely in harmony with the most grateful, solemn and happy feelings of which the human heart is susceptible. Indeed, sacred music upon an instrument, tends, in a very considerable degree, to excite solemn and holy emotions; [Sorcery says John] and we cannot forbear to say, that could the music of our churches be improved--could it be accompanied with an instrument,
......it would soothe and calm the feelings of the auditors;
......it would improve the order of the house;
......it would call into lively action the latent religious emotions of the heart,
......and add very much to the enjoyment on such occasions.
"Music exerts a mysterious charm upon man--it takes captive the citadel of life--carries him out of himself, and leads him where it will.
That is exactly the purpose driving all pagan music: but males didn't go there unless "drunk, perverted or just having fun" says history.
......The shrill fife and the rattling drum,
......inspire the soldier just about to enter into battle,
......with a zeal and daring which no hardship can overcome,
......and no danger intimidate,
......and causes him to rush headlong into the thickest of the combat,
......regardless of consequences.
If martial music thus inspires the worshipers of Mars, will sacred music do less for the humble followers of the meek and lowly Jesus--the worshipers of the true and living God? No!
"It will not. It will inspire them, too, with zeal and courage, and impel them on to resist--not flesh and blood with instruments of death, but principalities and powers--spiritual wickedness in high places, with the armor of God and the sword of the Spirit.
That's true music MEANS "to make the lambs DUMB before the slaughter." NOT a good set up for being a SCHOOL OF THE WORD.
In fact Paul said that we do not WRESTLE (psallo) against these powers with carnal weapons or lifeless instruments. Mr
. G. simply does not know and does not CARE that Paul repudiated him.
Paul ALWAYS outlaws music sourced from Lucifer the harp-playing prostitute.
Eph. 6:12 For we WRESTLE not against flesh and blood,
......but against principalities, against powers,
......against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
......against spiritual wickedness in high places.
, poise, sway a missile before it is thrown, sway, brandish, she drove it furiously, tripped on the shield-rim, quiver, leap, esp. in fear, II. Pass., swing, dash oneself, Pi.N.5.21; vibrate, of strings,
ap. Stob.); leap, bound, quiver, quake, phrena deimati pallôn S.OT153 (lyr.); dash along, of horses, E.El.477 (lyr.). spring upon ephallomai, leap, bound E.El.435
Paul was NOT SILENT: people are just unable to read BLACK
text on [color=brown]BROWN
paper. That is Christ's final judgment.
THEN, Paul defines the weapons of the SPIRIT.
Eph. 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,
t......hat ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Mr. G. is PROMOTING exactly the "laded burden" Jesus died to remove meaning "songs which create spiritual anxiety through religious rituals." Mr. G. and all music promoters KNOW that they are doing to you exactly what martial music does to soldiers: drive them mad and suicidal.
You will notice that neither Mr. G. offered or cared to appeal to the Word of God. Mr. G. Gives the same reason as the Catholics for adding instruments: it was common to ALL PAGAN CULTS.
"The priests of the pagan temples had been paid from the purse of the Empire, but now Caesar was a Christian and the priests of Mars and Venus [Lucifer, Zoe]hastened to their baptisms.
For the first time in the history of the church, salaries were paid to Christians workers. Tradition has it that Constantine's mother was the first to give the money for the erection of a church building...
All this (meetings in homes) was over now.
......The rags of persecution gave way to softer garments,
......and the church began to enjoy the feel of silk upon its flesh.
Thus the Pergamos stage of church history came into being, the church was married to the world." (Barnhouse, D.G., Revelation, Zondervan, p. 52).
Strabo Geography 10.3.9
"The religious frenzy seems to afford a kind of divine inspiration and to be very like that of the Soothsayer..
"For although it has been well said that human beings then act most like the gods when they are doing good to others,
yet one might better say, when they are happy; and such happiness consists of rejoicing, celebrating festivals, pursuing philosophy, and engaging in music;
for, if music is perverted when musicians turn their art to sensual delights at symposiums and in orchestric and scenic performances and the like, we should not lay the blame upon music itself, but should rather examine the nature of our system of education, since this is based on music.
The Greeks trained warriors in music and dance: however only the lowest classes PERFORMED music and then only to those who could not understand much speech.
Re: How easy it is to blaspheme
|January 19 2011, 10:11 AM |
Clement of Alexandria said...."Even if you wish to sing and make melody to the accompaniment of the kithara or lyre, there is no blame."
Joseph Bingham, the eminent author of "Antiquities of the Christian Church," unhesitatingly says:
He speaks not of what was then in use in Christian churches, but of what might lawfully be used by any private Christians, if they were disposed to use it; which rather argues that instrumental music, the lute and the harp, of which he speaks, was not in use in the public churches.--Antiq. of the Christian Church, Vol. 2, p. 485.
So it is ok to sing with musicals instruments, in private, or play in private, or a combination of the two, in private or at home, but you can't do it in a worship setting.
So, you can curse in private or at home, but not at church.
It is the EXACT same analogy for those who claim that instrumental music is sinful.
If instrumental is sinful, then it would be sinful to sing and play in private or at home, just as it would be to curse in private or at home.
See, even they opponents of instrumental music don't know what they really want.
Dr. A. T. Robertson: "The word (psalleto) originally meant to play on a stringed instrument (Sir. 9:4), but it comes to be used also for singing with the voice and heart (Eph. 5:19; 1 Cor. 14:15), making melody with the heart also to the Lord." (Comment on James 5:13, Studies In The Epistle James, via Earl Robertson, "Instrumental Music In Worship," p. 25)
I will take that by A.T. NOTICE there that he said "....it comes to be used ALSO for singing..."
That would mean that the playing with the singing IS acceptable.
Have at it boys!!!
William Crump, it would do you well to find some grammatical errors here. Look hard!!!
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: How easy it is to blaspheme
|January 19 2011, 9:00 PM |
Don't worry. I spotted the errors. Now if Dave deliberately created those errors to be cute, then he already knows where the errors are. There's no need to "correct" him, because he seems to enjoy playing the role of a somewhat illiterate poster. Play away, son.
"Authorization Made Easy"
|January 20 2011, 3:10 AM |
Quote from Dave's source:
He speaks not of what was then in use in Christian churches, but of what might lawfully be used by any private Christians, if they were disposed to use it; which rather argues that instrumental music, the lute and the harp, of which he speaks, was not in use in the public churches.The speaker lacked confidence in conjuring up something in his own process of ideation. He said: "... of what MIGHT LAWFULLY be used by any private Christians."
That sounds like something Dave would make up.
And now such an assumption is God-authorized?
Evil Begets Evil
|January 20 2011, 9:13 AM |
Pick away son. Find the grammar errors! It is all you are left with when the Truth slaps you in the face.
It hurts, don't it? It should.
The wicked plot against the righteous and gnash their teeth at them.
The above verse is what this site is all about.
|Dr. Bill Crump|
Re: Evil Begets Evil
|January 20 2011, 10:57 PM |
It seems that Dave has been gnashing his teeth at the conservatives, because they preach the truth.
BTW, Dave's contribution has a couple of errors. See the thread about spelling, grammar, and punctuation for details.